Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Libertopia 2010
At 06:00 PM 8/8/2010, you wrote: I had been invited to speak at Libertopia, and had agreed to do so. Then I wrote about Joe Stack flying a plane into an IRS building. Jason Talley pronounced me an idiot, Joyce Brand agreed. Talley also had a number of outrageously homophobic things to say in his rants against me on Google Buzz. So I withdrew from speaking. Several years ago I was invited to speak at FreedomFest 2005. But Mark Skousen made it clear at a convention in New Orleans in November 2004 that any member of the audience who disagreed with anything I said should be entitled to beat me up. Skousen actually staged such a fight between Doug Casey and a disgruntled marine who didn't like something Casey had said. Naturally, I withdrew from speaking at FreedomFest. I won't ever speak at Libertopia. I won't ever speak at FreedomFest. These are my choices, and they are not negotiable. That's too bad Jim. I've almost always enjoyed your articles. I may not always agree with you on everything, but you've always struck me as an intelligent, thoughtful person who cares about liberty and the principles there of. Not to place too fine a point on this, but you remind me of this generations Patrick Henry. He as you well know, was also widely regarded by his peers as a radical, and thus a dangerous individual. History has shown the truth of his fears about the expansion of the central government established by the federalists. I'd not place too much stock on the opinions of various LINO's. They are much closer to one or the other aspect of our one party state, than they are libertarians.
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Priceless....
At 12:06 PM 5/30/2010, you wrote: Cute, though staged. I found a sharper photo from 2007 and put it on BATF.com: http://BATF.comhttp://BATF.com Interesting. Thanks for the update.
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Priceless....
At 04:26 PM 5/29/2010, you wrote: Priceless http://sites.google.com/site/jonjayray/atf.jpghttp://sites.google.com/site/jonjayray/atf.jpg I'd love to think that was staged, but some of them really are that damn stupid, and poorly trained.
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: A question -
Retribution attempts to punish the perpetrator You say that like it's a bad thing. But in truth Retribution has value to many people and there is a Market for it. There is also a market for initiation... As long demonstrated by history. and leaves the victim with nothing but emotional satisfaction (revenge). It is simple to make sure that there is financial Restitution *AND* enough Retribution to satisfy most vengeful humans. Just one of the reasons history is so bloody.
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: A question -
At 05:23 PM 5/9/2010, you wrote: --- In mailto:LibertarianEnterprise%40yahoogroups.comLibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, Wraith wra...@... wrote: There is also a market for initiation... As long demonstrated by history. Absolutely. One reason why it is better to have an Justice League institution than to have plain Market Anarchy. Ah... The wonders of minarchy. Being a little bit statist is like being a little bit pregnant... ^^
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Vermont Secession Strategy
At 11:15 AM 3/22/2010, you wrote: http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig10/sale4.1.1.htmlhttp://www.lewrockwell.com/orig10/sale4.1.1.html Vermont Secession Strategy by mailto:jke...@aol.comKirkpatrick Sale Thats all well and good. But unlike during the War to Prevent Southern Independence, this time the Imperial Feds have nukes. Do you really think that nest of dangerous sociopaths back in New Rome on the Potomac, would hesitate to use them?
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Vermont Secession Strategy
At 12:12 PM 3/22/2010, you wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Monday 22 March 2010, Wraith was heard to say: Thats all well and good. But unlike during the War to Prevent Southern Independence, this time the Imperial Feds have nukes. Do you really think that nest of dangerous sociopaths back in New Rome on the Potomac, would hesitate to use them? No need for nukes against people armed with, at best, rifles. Think Prague Spring. The one and only hope is that the tanks rolling into Montpelier makes enough people angry enough that the cascade of nullification and secession happens in earnest. There is no hope what so ever of military success, because the military will OBEY their orders, just as they did under Lincoln. Curt- I was thinking more in general. If it spreads to 20 plus states, they are going to be damn hard pressed, given how spread out the imperial legions are. Not to mention at some point the military itself is going to fragment. Not all of them have forgotten their oaths are to the Constitution, not the government.
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] U.S. government poisoned alcohol during Prohibition
Thanks. I remember reading about that several decades ago. Its yet another example of how murderous the thugs who Rule tend to be, when their whims are contested. Speaking of which, I hope those pushing the succession movements are aware that unlike during the War to prevent Southern Independence, this time the Feds have nukes. I have no doubt what so ever that they *will* use them against any rebel states.
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] U.S. government poisoned alcohol during Prohibition
At 07:08 AM 2/21/2010, you wrote: Better dead than red. What if the states nuke DC? Lets not go there. This is not a secure channel.
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] U.S. government poisoned alcohol during Prohibition
At 11:04 PM 2/21/2010, you wrote: sing a nuke to defend against a nuke is pretty much shitting where you eat Not really. Imagine a nuke blowing up high in the atmosphere and taking down (vaporizing or disrupting the incomnig weapon. This is of course not optimal, but it's far healthier for everybody on the ground than having the nuke on the ground. I don't think even the US feral government is stupid enough to destroy a city's worth of folks that have relatives of voting age everywhere else on the continent to take out one plane, though of course I might be over-estimating the IQ of the US (or any other) government). Why would you need to do that? Again, tactical munitions, blowing up in the air. A wing of strategic bombers are coming, masked by stealth and electronic interference. Each of them carries bombs or guided missiles, enough to devastate, oh, a small state. You fire your nuclear missile into their vague location. Your missile misses the lead plane by a hundred yards. They don't care. They're dead. In the meanwhile, you can create - and people have tested - nuclear missiles with sufficient yield that a person can stand DIRECTLY UNDERNEATH the explosion which occurst at air combat heights, and the person below remains safe and healthy. Ever heard of EMP? Using high altitude nukes over ones own territory isn't very bright.
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Kaptain Krazy?
At 11:55 AM 2/9/2010, you wrote: --- In mailto:LibertarianEnterprise%40yahoogroups.comLibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, Dennis Lee Wilson dennisleewil...@... wrote: THE STATE SHOULD NOT BECOME INVOLVED! whiner Troll ^^ Zack, the State is simply short hand for those who will use force to impose their will and perspective. Anyone who seeks such power, is the very LAST who should have it.
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Hayek Raps Keynes
At 12:37 PM 1/26/2010, you wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0nERTFo-Skhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0nERTFo-Sk Thanks. That made my afternoon. ^^
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: SF writer beaten, arrested
At 09:21 AM 12/12/2009, you wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Saturday 12 December 2009, Wraith was heard to say: At 11:47 PM 12/11/2009, you wrote: It is too bad that the names of the agents have not been published. In some areas, Federal employees have been shamed and shunned by locals--refused service in stores. One Forest Service agent even resigned because of such local action. These days, that would likely result in Father Land Security making ones life difficult. No doubt there is some obscure federal law/regulation that could be applied in such a case. Thats if they even bothered with a reference to such these days. I offer in evidence the Obscured Truth video of the candlelight vigil held in front of police officer, and Keene, NH, local prosecutor, Eli Rivera's house because of someone he beat the shit out of while arresting him. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MufSUvoGqtQhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MufSUvoGqtQ Right at the start is the most disturbing thing of all: Rivera proclaiming that the vigil is overstepping the bounds of decency because it's just [my] job! I guess he was only following orders. Such a Good Citizen no doubt. With FAR too many PD's and other such acting more like armies of occupation, rather then peace officers, its only going to get worse.
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] SF writer beaten, arrested
At 07:58 PM 12/11/2009, you wrote: Links: http://fr33agents.ning.com/profiles/blogs/funds-for-the-defense-of-drhttp://fr33agents.ning.com/profiles/blogs/funds-for-the-defense-of-dr http://www.boingboing.net/2009/12/11/dr-peter-watts-canad.html His words: If you buy into the Many Worlds Intepretation of quantum physics, there must be a parallel universe in which I crossed the US/Canada border without incident last Tuesday. In some other dimension, I was not waved over by a cluster of border guards who swarmed my car like army ants for no apparent reason; or perhaps they did, and I simply kept my eyes downcast and refrained from asking questions. Along some other timeline, I did not get out of the car to ask what was going on. I did not repeat that question when refused an answer and told to get back into the vehicle. In that other timeline I was not punched in the face, pepper-sprayed, shit-kicked, handcuffed, thrown wet and half-naked into a holding cell for three fucking hours, thrown into an even colder jail cell overnight, arraigned, and charged with assaulting a federal officer, all without access to legal representation (although they did try to get me to waive my Miranda rights. Twice.). Nor was I finally dumped across the border in shirtsleeves: computer seized, flash drive confiscated, even my fucking paper notepad withheld until they could find someone among their number literate enough to distinguish between handwritten notes on story ideas and, I suppose, nefarious terrorist plots. I was not left without my jacket in the face of Ontario's first winter storm, after all buses and intercity shuttles had shut down for the night. In some other universe I am warm and content and not looking at spending two years in jail for the crime of having been punched in the face. But that is not this universe. http://www.rifters.com/crawl/?p=932http://www.rifters.com/crawl/?p=932 Pretty much par for the course these days. The border/airport gestapo have become a law in and off themselves. Anyone without high political/power connections that doesn't behave like a sheepeople, is going to get this type of treatment and worse. Some people have lost their life, and nothing has come of it. Insane doesn't even BEGIN to describe our current system. Some of these people are starting to make the Stasi look good.
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Egypt to ban Fraud Kits
At 01:10 AM 10/14/2009, you wrote: Given that I'm fairly tall for a woman (5'9); in an Islamic country, any woman my height would probably would be strangled on their wedding night for supposedly not being a 'virgin', if they had had the misfortune to have a husband whose penis was too small. But of course, nothing in Islamic countries is EVER the man's fault. Sad but true. But look at the situation in much of the western world. In divorce proceedings and rape investigations, the basic assumption of guilt is placed on the male, in all too many instances. Neither of these is right. We must investigate proceedings in an unprejudiced way and give the accused the benefit of the doubt, ALWAYS, or we don't HAVE civilization. So, when have we had anything that wasn't based on the concept that Might Makes Right? Justice is an ideal, and an illusion. Its use is to keep the rabble from seeing the basic injustice of the various power systems that rule them.
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Egypt to ban Fraud Kits
At 10:10 AM 10/13/2009, you wrote: This is better than the Onion: At the end of the piece is this disclaimer: This post was written by http://glossynews.com/author/rusty/Rusty http://glossynews.com/author/rusty/Rusty - who has written 90 posts on http://glossynews.com/GlossyNews.com. The Satire Stall / Rusty's Skewed News Views is a spoof publication, fired by the ironies of human nature and tempered with elements of satire and parody, and should not, therefore, be taken too seriously. These are inspired by traveling around the Earth more times than Skylab and composed while observing the inherent idiocies of Mankind. Thus lawyers be duly advised : All libel writs issued on behalf of offended humourless ego's and / or those blighted by unqualified arrogance herein lampooned may be addressed to : Rusty the Boddington's Badger, Igloo 27, Pasquinade Gardens, Penguin Parade, Ross Ice Shelf, Antarctica. http://thesatirestall.blogspot.com/TheSatireStall.Blogspot.com http://www.glossynews.com/forum/Contact the author in our forums There you go again, raining on his parade, costing him medals... Zack was on such a roll, that I didn't have the heart to tell him it was bogus :)
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Egypt to ban Fraud Kits
At 11:14 AM 10/13/2009, you wrote: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/06/world/middleeast/06briefs-EgyptBrf.htmlhttp://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/06/world/middleeast/06briefs-EgyptBrf.html http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,560241,00.html LOL! I still reserve judgement. It wouldn't be the first(nor the last) time that such sites passed along a hoax. Remember Iraq's WMD and Sadams connections to Al quada?... But if it is legit, its simply an example of a supply being matched to a demand(shrug).
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Egypt to ban Fraud Kits
At 02:58 PM 10/13/2009, you wrote: --- In mailto:LibertarianEnterprise%40yahoogroups.comLibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, Wraith wra...@... wrote: its simply an example of a supply being matched to a demand(shrug). Shrug my ass, so are Murder Inc. and Slavery. There is always a demand for Initiation of Force and Fraud. Hence the continued existence of government.
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: One simple question for Michael Badnarik
At 06:38 AM 9/22/2009, you wrote: In my attempts to get an answer to the question, I wrote to a girl I know well, who had praised Badnarik in public last time she mentioned him. Now she comes up with the following. (She must have thought I meant that he was going to run for Sheriff in Montana, not Texas.) None of this is a negative in my book (note that he agrees with ME on a Victim's Retaliation), but obviously the author of this letter thought so - and she's a lot closer to the Granny types. But I'll keep asking The Question; eventually we'll know The Answer. Former girl-friend/lover? We know how unbiased those tend to be Zack ^^ I don't know the fellow personally, so I can't say yea or nay. But the below does sound like a typical response from one. == == I wouldn't trust him, he isn't qualified. He just wants to carry a gun, He is considered by many here in Austin to be a communist. He is also an atheist. You do not want him in Montana. He really isn't qualified to do anything like that. He has no clue what to do, and his ego is huge. This is a very bad idea. Badnarik is not sheriff material. He is a self absorbed egotist. Trust me, I was very friendly with him for a while and he is stupid as sludge, scared to death. Once he saw an EMT worker looking for an address and he hid in the closet with his gun on. He thought people were coming to get him. He is such a loser here in Texas that he needs to go to Montana to be some hot shot. Sorry to sound so negative, the man is considered by some of his long term 'friends' to be a square. Plus... he is a very angry man... holds it all in. What he told me was when his campaign manager took off a couple of weeks before the campaign (for rep in Texas) he blamed him for his loss, and told me that he wanted to kill him... the only thing that kept him from killing him was he couldn't figure out what to do with the body. He said he thought of this for months and would kill him if he could of figured out how to hide the body so he wouldn't be caught... I am not joking about this. People need to know this... I do not think he is very stable either. He is not sheriff material. Good to hear from you. I hope you can influence this, it would be a disaster. He is not what he portrays himself to be. == == --- In mailto:LibertarianEnterprise%40yahoogroups.comLibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, zakbas zak...@... wrote: http://badnarikforsheriff.com/http://badnarikforsheriff.com/ I have been told that Michael Badnarik will run for Sheriff in a Texas County. I have one burning question about that: It is well established that it is perfectly legal in Texas, and not even any kind of misfeasance or malfeasance or nonfeasance, for a Sheriff to ignore a Texas State Law. One example is the Dildo Law. Most County Sheriffs simply ignore that Law with impunity. My question is this: if you are elected, will you refuse to punish, arrest, or harass people enjoying their libertarian right of public nudity? Or will you pander to the shitheads and Initiate Force against us? Please reply with your answer to: curi...@...
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: The Pacifists do their part to destroy the Libertarian Party
At 12:33 PM 8/13/2009, you wrote: Yeah, go ahead, insult all the minarchists on this list. With pleasure. ^^ I started out a Constitutional Conservative when I was MUCH younger. I moved from that to minarchy. Later still, when I realized that even minarchy could not be defended(if it is still coercive), I ended up with anarchy.
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: The Pacifists do their part to destroy the Libertarian Party
At 01:44 PM 8/13/2009, you wrote: You are using the word coercion incorrectly. It is possible for Coercion to be used without the Initiation of Force. Consider any Threat designed to gain Compliance: If you do not get off my lawn I will shoot you. Rape me and I'll kill you. Both of these are Coercion by Intimidation. But neither of them is an Initiation of Force, or even a Threat of Initiation of Force. They are merely a Threat of RETALIATION, and NAP allows us Retaliation if we choose to enjoy it. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/coercionhttp://dictionary.reference.com/browse/coercion 1. the act of coercing; use of force or intimidation to obtain compliance. 2. force or the power to use force in gaining compliance, as by a government or police force. That's the nature of positive and negative systems. Initiation is wrong(if one follows the ZAP). Negative coercion is wrong because it is initiation. Simple concept structures that have enormous implications for personal interactions. coerce One entry found. * Main Entry:co·erce * Pronunciation: \k - rs\ * Function: transitive verb * Inflected Form(s): co·erced; co·erc·ing * Etymology: Middle English cohercen, from Anglo-French *cohercer Latin coerc re, from co- + arc re to shut up, enclose more at http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/arkark * Date: 15th century 1 : to restrain or dominate by force religion in the past has tried to coerce the irreligious W. R. Inge 2 : to compel to an act or choice was coerced into agreeing 3 : to achieve by force or threat coerce compliance synonyms see http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/forceforce co·erc·ible \- r-s -b l\ adjective http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coercive_monopoly
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: The Pacifists do their part to destroy the Libertarian Party
At 02:48 PM 8/13/2009, you wrote: Are you seriously suggesting that saying to a trespasser, If you don't get off my lawn I will shoot you is a violation of the Non-Aggression Principle? Unwarranted assumption on your part. --- In mailto:LibertarianEnterprise%40yahoogroups.comLibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, Wraith wra...@... wrote: At 01:44 PM 8/13/2009, you wrote: You are using the word coercion incorrectly. It is possible for Coercion to be used without the Initiation of Force. Consider any Threat designed to gain Compliance: If you do not get off my lawn I will shoot you. Rape me and I'll kill you. Both of these are Coercion by Intimidation. But neither of them is an Initiation of Force, or even a Threat of Initiation of Force. They are merely a Threat of RETALIATION, and NAP allows us Retaliation if we choose to enjoy it. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/coer cionhttp://dictionary.reference.com/browse/coercionhttp://dictionary.reference.com/browse/coercion 1. the act of coercing; use of force or intimidation to obtain compliance. 2. force or the power to use force in gaining compliance, as by a government or police force. That's the nature of positive and negative systems. Initiation is wrong(if one follows the ZAP). Negative coercion is wrong because it is initiation. Simple concept structures that have enormous implications for personal interactions. coerce One entry found. * Main Entry:co·erce * Pronunciation: \k - rs\ * Function: transitive verb * Inflected Form(s): co·erced; co·erc·ing * Etymology: Middle English cohercen, from Anglo-French *cohercer Latin coerc re, from co- + arc re to shut up, enclose more at http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/arkhttp://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/arkark * Date: 15th century 1 : to restrain or dominate by force religion in the past has tried to coerce the irreligious W. R. Inge 2 : to compel to an act or choice was coerced into agreeing 3 : to achieve by force or threat coerce compliance synonyms see http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/forcehttp://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/forceforce co·erc·ible \- r-s -b l\ adjective http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coercive_monopolyhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coercive_monopoly
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Update on Philip Luty
At 10:15 PM 7/6/2009, you wrote: At 07:40 PM 7/6/2009, Wraith wrote: At 07:43 PM 7/6/2009, you wrote: At 10:17 AM 7/6/2009, Dennis Lee Wilson wrote: Perhaps that explanation should appear under the welcome message--along with Zack's very appropriate comment. Phil and family are not wanting to make waves. I'd say that the time for not making waves has long since passed. I'd say you are right, but I'm not in Great Britain and it's not a member of my family in trouble, so I have to do what they ask me to do. Ken Holder Understandable Ken. GB is even worse in some respects than the Imperium has managed to this point.
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Update on Philip Luty
At 03:11 AM 7/6/2009, you wrote: --- In mailto:LibertarianEnterprise%40yahoogroups.comLibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, Ken Holder khol...@... wrote: Philip has been arrested again, this time for aiding and abetting terrorism on account of some suspected (or actual) terrorists were found with copies of his books and such in their possession. I understand that several Abortion Terrorists have been found to have copies of The Holy Bible in their possession. Has the Author of that Book been prosecuted? One would need MUCH more power than New Rome on the Potomac has for that raid... ^^
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Knifes
At 09:03 AM 6/9/2009, you wrote: That are alerting us to an Evil from Customs, but I do wish these alarmist press releases would be honest. In this case, the lie is here: The proposal would not only outlaw assisted opening knives, its overly broad new definition of a switchblade would also include all one-handed opening knives and most other pocket knives! ... this proposal would make it illegal for the estimated 40 million law-abiding Americans who own and carry pocket knives to do so. However, the truth is that this proposal does NOT make carrying anything illegal! It pertains to Importing. If YOUR State chooses to make a knife illegal to possess or to carry, that is the fault of YOUR STATE, not the Feds. Florida explicitly allows the possession and carrying of switchblade knives. I have several. I bought them on the internet. It is possible that the seller violated a Federal Law by selling them to me across a State line, but the Feds do not consider ME a criminal, because the Law applies only to the SALE of the knives, not the PURCHASE. It is perfectly legal even under Federal Law for a knife dealer to buy switchblade knives across State lines. And in **SOME** States (e.g. Florida) it is perfectly legal for them to be SOLD within the State. So if YOUR STATE oppresses you, don't blame the Feds for that. The Feds are bad enough, making it hard to import them and transport them across State lines, without having to adulterate your argument with LIES. Zack... They did state that the various tyrannies could use this to support their own agenda did they not? Its not possible to have a different interpretation without it being intentional LIES?... The impact of this CBP ruling would go far beyond just imported knives because this agency determination will be used by domestic courts and law enforcement to determine what is a switchblade under both federal and state laws. Many states do not themselves define switchblades and simply rely on the federal definition and interpretation, which is only found in rulings by CBP. Since interstate commerce in switchblades is prohibited, except under very limited conditions, simply driving across a state line with a pocket knife in their possession would make someone a federal felon. As for alarmist, what does it take to be serious enough to post? When the jack boots are already kicking in ones door? If you must troll, at least make the attempt to be creative... ^^
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Scouts With Guns
At 03:00 PM 5/15/2009, you wrote: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/14/us/14explorers.html?_r=2hphttp://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/14/us/14explorers.html?_r=2hp This freaking freaks me out. Just another day in the Obama Youth Program. Nothing to see here Citizen, move along.
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Scouts With Guns
At 03:55 PM 5/15/2009, you wrote: Well. I'm of the opinion people learning tactics and weapons is a good thing. IT's the statist indoctrination that creeps me out. You obviously have forgotten that we are at WAR! Every Good Citizen must do their part to protect the Home Land from the shadowily forces of Terrorism.
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Government-Approved Child Molester @ LAX
At 07:58 PM 5/13/2009, you wrote: http://www.tuccille.com/blog/2009/05/nothing-says-security-like-man-in.htmlhttp://www.tuccille.com/blog/2009/05/nothing-says-security-like-man-in.html Not that this comes as a surprise. And no one dares object at the time because the passengers know that any objection will result in handcuffs at the minimum. Just look at what happened to a Ron Paul staffer at St Louis just for carrying $4700 in small bills. Some day a kid is going to yell Bad Touch! at a checkpoint and the result will be a dead parent and a TSO on life support in a trauma center. One can hope. On further thought, you know what would happen if that type of incident did happen. Father Land Security would howl about an attack by a domestic terrorist, the corporate mass media would read the governments hand outs on air as news(as they did at Waco and Ruby Ridge). Then the TSA would triple their personnel and have them in full body armor(including helmets) with shock batons and shot guns at the ready. All to better protect the passengers from terrorists of course. Airport security is the leading edge of the effort to condition the population to submission and obedience to authority. Just as the states educational system is.
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Government-Approved Child Molester @ LAX
At 07:58 PM 5/13/2009, you wrote: http://www.tuccille.com/blog/2009/05/nothing-says-security-like-man-in.htmlhttp://www.tuccille.com/blog/2009/05/nothing-says-security-like-man-in.html Not that this comes as a surprise. And no one dares object at the time because the passengers know that any objection will result in handcuffs at the minimum. Just look at what happened to a Ron Paul staffer at St Louis just for carrying $4700 in small bills. Some day a kid is going to yell Bad Touch! at a checkpoint and the result will be a dead parent and a TSO on life support in a trauma center. One can hope. Faint hope. All too many sheep out and about Frank. Besides, anyone objecting gets detained and/or dead. Father Land Security has already demonstrated that they can kill and get away with it(time after time). Never play the game by the enemies rules.
[LibertarianEnterprise] GPS
http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/releases/archives/2010_census/013441.html Interesting things could be done with such a GPS list of homes.
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: [Western_Chat] Compromise reached on Montana gun bill
At 05:03 PM 4/8/2009, you wrote: The Western gun nut types just keep getting worse... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Western_Chat/message/8430http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Western_Chat/message/8430 --- In mailto:Western_Chat%40yahoogroups.comwestern_c...@yahoogroups.com, Ben Irvin wrote: The Western libertarian position on the issue is best summed up by Basil Fishbone on a list where my piece was cross-posted: A person who rents a hotel room or an appartment acquires property rights over his rented abode. He does not give up fundamental rights within his lawful living quarters. Perhaps it is as the old saying goes: East is East and West is West and never the twain shall meet. Sorry, Basil baby... just as in Matrimony, it is Morally Wrong for a Government to impose set structure on a Contract. A Contract is exactly what the Parties agree to and nothing more. To agree to rent an apartment and not have guns there, and then to have guns there, is FRAUD. I have seen this problem with lots of other Western libertarians. For some reason, Conservative Shitheads in the West feel that being Anti-Liberal, and Pro-Gun, entitles them to call themselves libertarian without having to respect Private Property and other Personal Liberties. You fail, guys. Being Western does not excuse Initiation Of Force or Fraud against a Property Owner. _ Using morally wrong and government in the same sentence is redundant. A libertarian is someone who follows the ZAP. Much beyond that is shadow play. But beyond ones word(and all that goes with it), what else does one have that can't be taken by others no matter how powerful?
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Dollar
AWraith was heard to say: At 07:42 PM 3/21/2009, you wrote: As is any US citizen with two brain cells to rub together. I figure a Weimar meltdown by this time next year. -- Ward Griffiths mailto:wdg3rd%40comcast.netwdg...@comcast.net Well...You remember what and who came after that, don't you? We've already had the Enabling Acts... Godwin's Law strikes again. Interesting that you bring that up. You are aware of the implications of invoking that, especially in this context? :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law Not that I disagree with the reference at all. In fact, I completely agree. The US is very much in danger. Heinline's fundamentalist dictatorship I see as a very real possibility. - -- Possible, but as polarized as the country is, I suspect its going to be nastier than even that. We are pretty much a dictatorship in all but name now. What could a dictator do, that our last Dear Leader, or the current one couldn't? That's why I doubt we will see an official declaration of national martial law any time soon. It would be counter productive. They can already do what they want, to anyone(who isn't part of the Boss/Master class) that they want, when they want, without being accountable to anyone. What else is there?
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Dollar
At 04:01 PM 3/22/2009, you wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sunday 22 March 2009, Wraith was heard to say: Godwin's Law strikes again. Interesting that you bring that up. You are aware of the implications of invoking that, especially in this context? :) I disagree with the corollary that the discussion is over and the first person saying it loses. I don't believe that applies. As to further change, well, with the economic collapse I think people are going to want actual change, so they will be handed a change that doesn't change anything. Again. Curt- Oh, but don't we currently have A change you can believe in?? very evil grin I quite agree that when things get bad enough, the sheepeople are going to start looking for a Strong Leader to save them. Then things are likely to get Really Bad(tm).
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Dollar
At 07:42 PM 3/21/2009, you wrote: As is any US citizen with two brain cells to rub together. I figure a Weimar meltdown by this time next year. -- Ward Griffiths mailto:wdg3rd%40comcast.netwdg...@comcast.net Well...You remember what and who came after that, don't you? We've already had the Enabling Acts...
[LibertarianEnterprise] Dollar
http://tinyurl.com/dxlqbj The UN is proposing a move from the dollar as reserve currency.
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: hope
At 02:01 PM 2/8/2009, you wrote: On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 8:30 AM, Zack Bass mailto:zakbas%40gmail.comzak...@gmail.com wrote: --- In mailto:LibertarianEnterprise%40yahoogroups.comLibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, Curt Howland wrote: The problem, as I see it, is that all the prohibition in the world hasn't stopped it, so relying on prohibition is just like staying married to an alcoholic on the theory that they'll change. All the prohibition in the world has not stopped Murder either. What's your point? Considering that the laws outlawing murder haven't stopped it, maybe the point was that laws aren't the way to solve problems. _ The Law(note capital L) is the whim(in application/interpretation/enforcement) of those in *power* at a given time. It is by definition a creature of the State. The theory is that the Law is meant to deal with certain problems. The reality, as we are all to familiar with is rather different. It is much like the old saying If all you have is a hammer, then every problem looks like a nail. One of the reasons practicing medicine without the States blessing is against the Law, is because of the medical guilds influence on the State. At its foundation the statist world view is; We must control all, or we control nothing. Much about the Theory of the Law here. Note many of the no doubt unintended ironies and/or conflicts. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law Some thoughts(mixed with mis/disinformation) on another approach are here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchy
[LibertarianEnterprise] Wiki
Given one of the last posts, some of you may find this of interest. It deals with a new tool that may illustrate some of the internal actions involved. http://tinyurl.com/btng23
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Great Idea: Fire Teacher for Facebook gun photo
At 08:21 PM 2/7/2009, you wrote: Did something happen to Wisconsin while I wasn't looking? http://www.examiner.com/x-1417-Gun-Rights-Examiner~y2009m2d6-The-new-blacklistpart-twohttp://www.examiner.com/x-1417-Gun-Rights-Examiner~y2009m2d6-The-new-blacklistpart-two Let's see... First Amendment violation...check Second Amendment violation...check WI Discrimination Law violation...check To contact Donny Childs, the person who *SHOULD* be on administrative leave pending a permanent job transfer to the unemployment line: (920) 885-7470 ext mailto:childsd%40beaverdam.k12.wi.uschil...@beaverdam.k12.wi.us http://www.beaverdam.k12.wi.us/bd/sup-message Seriously, I wish Mr. Childs well in his new career in the fast food industry, where he will increase the likelihood that my order is correct at least 50%. Frank Ney N4ZHG WV/EMT-B NRA(L) GOA CCRKBA JPFO ProvNRA LPWV -- I am opposed to all attempts to licence or restrict the arming of individuals, such as the Sullivan Act of the State of New York. I consider such laws a violation of civil liberty, subversive of democratic political institutions, and self-defeating in their purpose. - Robert Heinlein, in a 1949 letter concerning _Red Planet_ Kip Hawley Is An Idiot! http://www.kiphawleyisanidiot.com/http://www.kiphawleyisanidiot.com/ Abuses by the BATF http://www.elfie.org/~croaker/batfabus.htmlhttp://www.elfie.org/~croaker/batfabus.html _ Frank, I must say I'm shocked...SHOCKED! That a *teacher* would have a gun!!! Think of the Chil-Der-Ren!! Very evil grin What else would you expect but a typical knee jerk reaction from the Good Citizens, and the statist media out there in one of the Eastern Peoples Republics?
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: CONGRATULATIONS, Zack!
At 08:07 AM 10/7/2008, you wrote: mailto:wdg3rd%40comcast.net[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Fathers and sons are not the same people. Milton was a minarchist (at best), David is an anarchist. (As my father was a violent drunk and I am a mellow lush). And my father would agree as readily as I. Most anarchists use the term ZAP (Zero Aggression Principle) rather than NAP (Non-Aggression Principle). We figure the initials have a bit more zing. The term was generated on the Smith2004 list after we realized we didn't want to fuck up Neil's life that much,drafting him for a run for the White House (he's much more useful and entertaining writing novels and comic books). (And if you haven't visited www.bigheadpress.com, you've got some treats in store). -- Ward Griffiths mailto:wdg3rd%40comcast.net[EMAIL PROTECTED] I'd enjoy hearing more about the history of the term ZAP; don't quite understand what it has to do with Neil's quality of life or the Presidency draft. While I was into comics in my youth (or I guess I should say 'graphic novels' now), the graphics now just slow me down. G. _ Hell...We all like Neil too much to inflict that on him... ^^ It was an interesting idea at the time, but even then, it was WAY too late to fix the system from within. Tu Ne Cede Malis
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: CONGRATULATIONS, Zack!
At 05:11 PM 10/7/2008, you wrote: --- In mailto:LibertarianEnterprise%40yahoogroups.comLibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, Gary F. York [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Zack Bass wrote: The exact same thing, via different mechanisms but the same result, will occur in AnCap. All those little old ladies who want to outlaw Lap Dancing will still have the same power that they have now, if they are not prevented by Force from imposing their preferences upon the Weak Minority (me). If my protection agency was intimidated by a herd of little old ladies, I'd fire 'em and find a better one. Are you sure you are AnCap? I never said it was YOUR Protection Agency. There are COMPETING Agencies, and the Little Old Ladies' Agency has the same support there as the Government has here, namely: The Vast Majority of people want to outlaw Lap Dancing and put pants on dogs and punish Public Nudity, so their Agency gets massive funding and support. The Teeny Minority who want these things to go unpunished cannot support an Agency able to stand against the shitheads' Agency. Then they aren't using the proper tactics. Never fight an enemies army. Tu Ne Cede Malis
[LibertarianEnterprise] Vote list
Here is a list of who voted yes or no, on the bail out for bankers bill. Interesting list... http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2008/roll674.xml Tu Ne Cede Malis
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: QED:Laughing Out Loud and then Crying
At 08:10 PM 6/29/2008, you wrote: Believe it or not, I was actually thinking about something along the lines of some of what what you say below. It seems that all the things that have gone wrong are tied up and tangled up together. As if it were some big bunch of tangled and knotted ropes, with a bunch of branches thrown into the mix for good measure. And the few things that aren't broken are just on the verge of being sucked into the mess. I can't help but think that if one could pull right metaphorical string, the whole thing would unravel and straighten back up. But which string is the right one to pull? That is the question of the century. BWS Well...You have the tangled mess part right. But rather than straighten up, I suspect what would happen is that the entire system of illusions and delusions would come crashing down, and in the resulting power vacuum, all manner of unpleasant things would happen. Bottom line, power will out. No matter *what* has to be done to maintain it. Look at what happened in the War to prevent Southern Independence. 620,000 plus of our people died. Estimates of the next cycle are in the millions. All for what? So that the Few can continue to Rule the Many(and their lives and resources). Tu Ne Cede Malis
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: QED:Laughing Out Loud and then Crying
At 05:17 AM 6/30/2008, you wrote: On Sun, Jun 29, 2008 at 3:53 PM, Boyd Smith mailto:boydw.smith%40yahoo.com[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So in other words you think it is OK for people to come into this country for the express purpose of committing crimes such as rape, murder and theft. I don't think it is OK for people to go in to a bank for the purpose of committing crimes such as murder or theft. But my solution to that would not include keeping all people from going in to banks. You can't know why an immigrant is coming here. You don't read minds. If someone commits rape, murder, or theft he is at that point a criminal, not before. --Eric Just by crossing an imaginary line on a map, they are committing a crime in some peoples alleged minds. Its *ALL* about power and control Eric. One doesn't have to look very deep into these matters to find tribalism and fear of the Other(which underlie all too much of basic human psychology.). Tu Ne Cede Malis
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: QED:Laughing Out Loud and then Crying
At 12:41 PM 6/30/2008, you wrote: Wraith wrote: Just by crossing an imaginary line on a map, they are committing a crime in some peoples alleged minds. Its *ALL* about power and control Eric. One doesn't have to look very deep into these matters to find tribalism and fear of the Other(which underlie all too much of basic human psychology.). So if somebody crosses your imaginary property line to property you own without your consent, exactly what is that called? Goat Trespass. But you are mixing up concepts. You specified that the property is owned by an individual(above). Who owns the imaginary line called a border? Tu Ne Cede Malis
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: QED:Laughing Out Loud and then Crying
At 12:58 PM 6/30/2008, you wrote: Wraith wrote: Trespass. But you are mixing up concepts. You specified that the property is owned by an individual(above). Who owns the imaginary line called a border? Nobody owns the property on the border? Exactly. Its owned by the group of thugs commonly referred to as government. It would be entirely different if that land was private property. There is no mixing of concepts, they are exactly the same. On the contrary, you are mixing private property with that of government. Some libertarians just ignore it to try to make the position tenable, when it isn't. Goat What position might that be? Tu Ne Cede Malis
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: QED:Laughing Out Loud and then Crying
At 02:16 PM 6/30/2008, you wrote: Wraith wrote: Nobody owns the property on the border? Exactly. Its owned by the group of thugs commonly referred to as government. It would be entirely different if that land was private property. Wrong, it is owned by the people who own land there. Try telling that to the Imperials, Goat...I'm certain that they will be rather entertained...The border zone isn't private property. There is no mixing of concepts, they are exactly the same. On the contrary, you are mixing private property with that of government. Except that the concept of common property is just as valid and predated the concept of private property. Common property is a useful fiction. As for it predating private property, that's open for debate. Its all in who gets to make the definitions. As with most such, its those with the most power. But does that make it right? Since we are suppose to be the government, it is us who is suppose to have the say on how the commons is administered. Oh please...Sure we have a government of, by and for the people. What they don't tell you is which people. Its those who have bought(or rented) the politicians that get to make the definitions, as I stated above. Without the commons, and without any private property, you would have nether positive or negative rights, except for what somebody who did have negative property rights granted you positive rights on their property. Without commons(or very limited) everything would be a matter of private property. But that doesn't suit certain types of ideologues. Some libertarians just ignore it to try to make the position tenable, when it isn't. Goat What position might that be? That a people doesn't have the right to keep others from trespass. Goat Having never taken that position, I feel no need to defend it. Private property is just that, private. Tu Ne Cede Malis
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Heller decision terrible
At 03:42 PM 6/26/2008, you wrote: --- In mailto:LibertarianEnterprise%40yahoogroups.comLibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, Robert D. Silvetz, M.D. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Whose giving up. All I have pointed out is that this historic decision is mostly laughable and won't do a whole hell of a lot because it left 19998 laws on the books and ALL because the damn Heller attorney said that the licensing scheme was constitutional if not capriciously or arbitrarily enforced. Huh? The WHOLE POINT of the lawsuit was to blow these prior-restraint permit/license bans out of the water. Yeah but if they had decided the OTHER way then States would jump at the chance to enact even more intrusive Gun Laws, since there would be no Individual Right To Bear Arms at all. This decision means the Feds are keeping some reins on the States, even more than before this decision. Thank god for the Feds, our saviors from Local Tyrants! Zack, I'm always entertained by your fixation on the locals... ^^ Tyrants they ALL are(to a greater or lesser degree). But the locals impact is strictly that...Local. Our Imperial overlords on the other hand, impact the entire country(and to an extent the world). When one adds up the total of abuses and power, its the Imperials who are the most threat to the largest number of us. Tu Ne Cede Malis
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Heller decision terrible
At 06:15 PM 6/26/2008, you wrote: Robert D. Silvetz, M.D. wrote: The Supremes would HAVE BEEN FORCED to rule on licensing if the attorney hadn't conceded the point. He was just doing his job well. Goat Keep in mind that this was a VERY split decision. If not given that out, it could very easily have gone the other way. The Nine Riders of the Bench have a history of making narrow decisions in these types of situations. What should give one pause is how four people who many regard as great legal minds could, given the CLEAR history of the Founders/Framers intentions come to such a badly mistaken conclusion. Tu Ne Cede Malis
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Surrender in the War on Drugs
At 07:15 AM 6/18/2008, you wrote: All prohibitions (malum prohibitum) have the same results, crime and corruption. And the socialists keep doing the same thing expecting a different result. ho hum... When will they ever learn? Never. That is the nature of ideologues. The War on Some Drugs has long since become a growth industry. It plays well with the mind numbed m-asses that both aspects of the Boot On Your Neck Party, keep in a state of semi panic in order to control and manipulate them. Tu Ne Cede Malis
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] TSA - Your Papers Please
At 07:50 PM 6/9/2008, you wrote: Sigh... The march towards statism continues... http://news.cnet.com/8301-13739_3-9962760-46.html?part=rsssubj=newstag=2547-1_3-0-5http://news.cnet.com/8301-13739_3-9962760-46.html?part=rsssubj=newstag=2547-1_3-0-5 _ Statism?? We are LONG past that. Fascism is more like it. Compound all of the various tyrannies that we currently suffer under, and what else would one call it? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism Tu Ne Cede Malis
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Report from Denver:
At 05:54 AM 6/6/2008, you wrote: Then we need to agree to disagree. We can always wait to see what happens now. In fact there is not to much choice on that and I can understand that as the source of much of your anger. Is this a big gamble? Yes. But it is the big bet. Sometimes you need to risk a lot to gain more. And we are risking a HUGE amount of ourselves in this one. And we could lose. But the potential payoff is also HUGE. I think that the odds are good. BWS Sigh...Where have I heard this before? Principle is basic. Its either principle or its not. Expecting a career politician to change(and at such a convenient time...) takes more than a bit of desperate self delusion(at the VERY least). Its exactly when the stakes are high that one sticks to ones principles. Given the reality of the current system, we'd all have a better chance of being multiple lotto winners, than expect a return to respect for the Constitution and Bill of Rights. Nature will take its course. Power will out. Tu Ne Cede Malis
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Only an END can justify a MEANS
At 11:50 PM 6/2/2008, you wrote: Miss Reason has, over the last few months since I first encountered a Youtube of hers, impressed me as having very strange ideas. The phrase, the ends don't justify the means is a proverb about doing evil things in the name of a good cause. MEANS are neither good nor evil. Utter nonsense. There are obviously evil things that a person can do, such as torturing a person to death to attempt to gain some evidence to justify killing them. Massacring six million Jews is the means to an end, and the means was itself evil. The end in that case also happened to be evil. Tools are neither good nor evil. A gun, for example, is just a tool. It can be used for good or used for evil. But, means are not merely tools, but actions taken to attempt to gain the desired goal or end. The whole point of the proverb is to point out that taking an evil action hoping for a good result is not wise. What determines their goodness or badness is the END RESULT of the MEANS. If the END RESULT of a MEANS is good, then that MEANS is good. No, absolutely not. For example, killing a human being (MEANS) is neither good nor evil. All other things being equal, killing a human being is evil. There is no type of such killing that is not homicide. Whether or not a homicide is justifiable is questionable, and it is always one that our current system of jurisprudence demands must involve a great deal of consideration, such as trial by a jury, or review by a grand jury. Please add your comments on this subject to my blog at Please don't spam this list again, Miss Reason. I'm quite happy to moderate all the posts you make here, as I find time. Thanks Jim. People like that are so far off, that to use an old phrase; They aren't even wrong. One need look no further than the Neo Cons to see the results of ignoring ones means. Tu Ne Cede Malis
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Kubby's show
At 02:57 AM 6/1/2008, you wrote: Wraith wrote: Unity provides conventional forces with their favorite targets. Maybe so, if they can get a bead on you. Goat http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_mob Tu Ne Cede Malis
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Kubby's show
At 01:32 AM 5/31/2008, you wrote: Curt Howland wrote: What is _needed_ is a pruning, from the top. The RP campaign was the last chance I give electoral politics. It didn't work. Voting from the Rooftops is, sadly, the only effective countermeasure to a corrupt political process. Either option will have the same results without unity. Goat Unity provides conventional forces with their favorite targets. Tu Ne Cede Malis
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Report from Denver:
At 09:22 AM 5/31/2008, you wrote: Quoting Wraith mailto:wraith%40xmission.com[EMAIL PROTECTED]: At 07:15 PM 5/30/2008, you wrote: He is a libertarian. And you know it. BWS Bob Barr is NOT a libertarian. Look at the mans actions and voting record over the years. Look, I'm not as familiar with Barr's record as some of you are, but I have a question: Does somebody have to _always, from the beginning_ been a libertarian before he or she is pure enough? Isn't it possible for people to learn better? Its not a question of being pure enough. Its a demonstrated history of actions and votes over *decades* that makes this more opportunistic than anything else. Sure its *possible* for someone to change...But a career politician claiming to do so is automatically suspect(or should be). Look at the Portland gang as an example of what happens when one allows ones desire for power to over ride principle. Tu Ne Cede Malis
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Kubby's show
Curt Howland wrote: What is _needed_ is a pruning, from the top. The RP campaign was the last chance I give electoral politics. It didn't work. Voting from the Rooftops is, sadly, the only effective countermeasure to a corrupt political process. Either option will have the same results without unity. Goat There was unity at Wacoand few survivors. Exactly. Never play the enemies game. Tu Ne Cede Malis
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Kubby's show
At 12:36 AM 5/29/2008, you wrote: hrearden_hr wrote: I just listened to the May 27 episode of Kubby's show on Blog Talk Radio. Kubby believes that Barr should be supported. As much as I'd like to see a RP write in campaign unified behind, it would at most be a protest vote. On the other hand, the strangle hold the one party calling itself two parties has on the political process, especially on the national and presidential levels, would actually seem to be more important to break than any protest vote would matter. We are not going to break that strangle hold without unity. The enemy loves and depends on disunity in our ranks, and as long as we are not united in purpose to break that strangle hold, we will have the yoke of slavery upon our backs. Goat Goat, *anything* that even has a ghost of a chance of breaking that strangle hold WILL be crushed, before it gets even close to threatening the Powers that Be's control of the system. Close to three Trillion a year buys a LOT of power. Do you really think that they are going to let that go? The last time anything really threatened their total control, 620,000 of our people paid with their lives. The expected death toll this time around will be in the millions. Two statements define the political process. I don't care who votes, as long as I pick the candidates. Those who cast the votes determine nothing. Those who count the votes determine everything. You've seen their near total disregard for the Constitution and Bill of Rights up to this point(and a total absence of effective opposition). What is needed is intelligent analysis of the system, and creative understandings of its component parts. These may be of interest to some. I can't say I agree with everything involved, but its a good over view. http://www.mega.nu/ampp/ http://tinyurl.com/66s4rt Tu Ne Cede Malis
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Fwd: Obama Backs U.N. Bill to Disarm Americans
At 01:38 PM 5/11/2008, you wrote: On Sun, 11 May 2008 04:16:02 -0700, Zack Bass mailto:zakbas%40gmail.com[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What a horribly disgusting conclusion. Unfortunately, I fear you are correct. That bill could well be the one that keeps Obama out of the Whitehouse. Previous UN attempts to disarm us have left a very nasty taste in everybodies mouths. Then I hope you are looking forward to that psycho McCain being Dear Leader. If you think our current Dear Leader is bad, wait until you see what McCain and the Neo Cons have in store, once they are back in power. McCain is NO friend of the 2nd Amendment, or any other part of the Bill of Rights or Constitution for that matter. In fact, he thinks that Bush hasn't gone nearly far enough with the centralization of power in the Executive. People had a real choice this time in Ron Paul. But the damn fools don't want that choice. Be it upon their own heads in consequence. Tu Ne Cede Malis
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] So much for the Party of Principle.
At 05:00 PM 5/4/2008, you wrote: http://cluebyfour.livejournal.com/430173.htmlhttp://cluebyfour.livejournal.com/430173.html So much for the Party of Principle. [cross-posted from http://community.livejournal.com/libertarianism/profile vertical-align: bottom; http://community.livejournal.com/libertarianism/libertarianism] The Libertarian Party is calling for http://www.lp.org/media/printer_578.shtmlmore cooperation between Federal, state and local law enforcement to battle the scourge of child pornography: FBI Chief Robert Mueller was correct when he said we are losing the war on child pornography, says Libertarian Party Executive Director Shane Cory, referring to comments made by the head of the Federal Bureau of Investigation on Wednesday before a House Judiciary Committee meeting. We have an obligation to protect children from sexual exploitation and abuse, and we can do this by increasing communication between state and federal agencies to help combat this repulsive industry. While privacy rights should always be respected in the pursuit of child pornographers, more needs to be done to track down and prosecute the twisted individuals who exploit innocent children. Mueller called for integration between police agencies and increasing FBI resources to work on child pornography cases, which the LP press release mentions without comment, except to suggest that those resources could be freed up by not prosecuting victimless crimes. So, yes: child abuse, particularly sexual abuse, is evil and those who engage in it can hang in the courtyard by their genitals for all I care. But what the hell is the LP thinking here? They're not even pretending to support the Constitution, let alone limited government, with this view. The LP is justifying not only the existence of a national police force (which is not authorized by the Constitution), but by implying support for integrating police agencies, they're calling for even more Federal intrusion into areas that should by law be the states' domain. There's only one reason for such an ill-considered and frankly unlibertarian stance from the LP, and it's to further marginalize the radical core of the party. It started with the gutting of the party platform in 2006 and it continues through http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/04/27/open-letter-from-angela-keaton-regarding-a-proposed-lnc-resolution/attacks on Mary Ruwart, an LP candidate for President and a more radical libertarian than the current leaders of the LP are comfortable with. Even party founder David Nolan expressed http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/04/27/open-letter-from-angela-keaton-regarding-a-proposed-lnc-resolution/#comment-582773his outrage in a comment: I am appalled at the national HQ staff putting out a press release that implicitly disowns one of our candidates over such a relatively minor issue. First, because that's not a proper role for paid staffers to assume, and second because several other candidates have taken overtly anti-Libertarian stances on a number of issues, and none of them have been shot at by the national staff for doing so. This whole fiasco just reeks of cronyism and witch-hunting. Our presidential nominee will be chosen by the delegates to the national convention in Denver, and attempts by the LNC or (especially) the office staff at LPHQ to subvert that process are despicable. Once again, the New LP demonstrates its willingness to sell out its own principles, and even one of its most dedicated party members, in a futile effort to gain some mainstream political credibility. It's just pathetic. If you truly care about the libertarian movement then stop supporting these clowns. One of the basic principles of politics is that of co opting the opposition. Then one distorts and warps their principles to make them less of a threat. I'm not in the least surprised that national has fallen for the Think of the CHIL-DE-REN! ploy. Remember this crowds antics in Portland? They revealed themselves to be little more than unprincipled power seekers. Kiddy porn, terrorism and other such are very effective tools for manipulating the mindless soccer mom types(who roll their sheep like eyes in terror when ever such are brought up, and start looking for a Strong Leader to protect them). Which is why demagogues and other such use that ploy. Party of principle?...Give me a break...Unless the principle involved is to seek power at any cost. inline: 5243ef.jpg Tu Ne Cede Malis
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Silver and gold guarantee freedom
At 05:43 PM 4/28/2008, you wrote: Original Message Subject: Silver and gold guarantee freedom Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 16:50:11 -0500 From: http://news.goldseek.com/GATA/1208758200.phphttp://news.goldseek.com/GATA/1208758200.php *Silver and gold guarantee freedom* No. Brass and lead(and the willingness to use them) guarantee freedom. Everything beyond that is secondary. Tu Ne Cede Malis
[LibertarianEnterprise] Fwd: (ALERT) Ron Paul Delegates Forced out of Republican Convention
Ron Paul Delegates Forced out of Republican Convention - Ron Paul's elected delegates have been unlawfully, illegally, and for all intents and purposes VIOLENTLY overthrown in a blatant declaration of war against Ron Paul supporters and converts! Read more here: http://www.restoretherepublic.com/content/view/1061/71/ McCain FEC Complaint Update - 8717 McCain FEC Complaints have been downloaded, thats right eight thousand and seventeen, from the RTR website, looks like the FEC may be busy for a while. Give yourselves a hand RTR activists! If you haven't filed your FEC complaint yet, download, fill out, print, notarize and mail your complaint today! Download it here: http://www.restoretherepublic.com/component/option,com_docman/task,doc_download/gid,96/Itemid,59/ How to file an FEC Complaint: http://www.restoretherepublic.com/component/option,com_docman/task,doc_download/gid,97/Itemid,59/ A MUST HAVE flier for your arsenal - While You Were Out - You can really have some fun with this one, just print it, cut it in half, fill it out, and hang it on every door in your neighborhood! Download it here: http://www.restoretherepublic.com/component/option,com_docman/task,doc_download/gid,102/Itemid,59/ RM Issue 6 PDF Link - If you haven't seen the latest issue of Republic Magazine about REAL ID, BIOMETRICS, VERICHIP and more, please use the link below to share and download. Download it here: http://www.restoretherepublic.com/component/option,com_docman/task,doc_download/gid,103/Itemid,59/ Reminder: April 15th Activist Videos If you want to be included in the RTR April 15th Global Strike Video please send your MiniDV tapes or DVDs to the address listed below. Special thanks to Joanne A. of MI for her DVD submission. Don't forget to included a self addressed stamped envelope if you want your footage back. Sent from your friends at: RestoreTheRepublic.com, 3149 Dundee Rd #176, Northbrook, Illinois 60062, USA To unsubscribe or change subscriber options visit: http://www.aweber.com/z/r/?rIxMrJxstCxMjGxMDGyMtEa0zMyMHAysjA== Tu Ne Cede Malis
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Food Rationing Confronts Breadbasket of the World
At 05:03 PM 4/21/2008, you wrote: By JOSH GERSTEIN Staff Reporter of the Sun April 21, 2008 MOUNTAIN VIEW, Calif. Many parts of America, long considered the breadbasket of the world, are now confronting a once unthinkable phenomenon: food rationing. Major retailers in New York, in areas of New England, and on the West Coast are limiting purchases of flour, rice, and cooking oil as demand outstrips supply. There are also anecdotal reports that some consumers are hoarding grain stocks. At a Costco Warehouse in Mountain View, Calif., yesterday, shoppers grew frustrated and occasionally uttered expletives as they searched in vain for the large sacks of rice they usually buy. -- continued... http://www2.nysun.com/article/74994http://www2.nysun.com/article/74994 _ I think it is finally starting to dawn on some people just how vulnerable this system is. Of course, ideologues never learn...But that's the nature of such. Tu Ne Cede Malis
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Food Rationing Confronts Breadbasket of the World
At 08:31 PM 4/21/2008, you wrote: --- In mailto:LibertarianEnterprise%40yahoogroups.comLibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, Wraith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think it is finally starting to dawn on some people just how vulnerable this system is. Of course, ideologues never learn...But that's the nature of such. What system would that be? Democracy, where people find that they can DEMAND that The Government set prices by Force? What Ideologues are you referring to? Libertarian ideologues could never be a part of this problem, only its Victims. This is worldwide. System? Government of course. At their base they are all the same. Only the illusions/delusions used are different. The ideologues in question are akin to True Believers(in what ever version is in power locally). Government should DO SOMETHING ABOUT THAT!!, is the all too familiar response of such types. Politicians(thugs by another name would be as corrupt) love such people. They are so easy to control by appeal to their petty hatreds, fears, envy and spite. I'm in the Philippines right now, in the Ayala Business Center. As soon as I arrived the first news report I saw showed Rice Demonstrations (not yet Riots) in the Ayala Center. They are of course demanding that The Government Force the prices lower. This, remember, is the place where the Green Revolution STARTED, with the hardier-engineered Rice. Now they import rice from Thailand. In Africa, in Asia, and now in the U.S., the first thought of the Democrats is There oughta be a law - Erle Stanley Gardner notwithstanding., it's not just America anymore and never was. It's not just food, it's fuel too. I was supposed to meet this girl from Butuan, in Mindanao, and I called her and she said she couldn't get to the boat because the Drivers were Striking - demanding, of course, that The Government arrange for them to have higher pay by Force and/or cheaper fuel by Force. This problem is not merely your average Democrat problem, it's the Commie Unionist Mentality - they are not really Striking (Conspiring to Withhold their labor), what they are doing is strewing the roads with nails, and setting up ROADBLOCKS, so private companies can't send their own cars to bring the employees to work etc. They are especially interfering with the non-striking TRICYCLES, the little pedaled and motorcycle-based taxis here. Fucking shitheads-of-the-world have gone too far this time, interfering with pussy - I'll have to put a stop to it when I have time. Have fun storming the castle Zack... ^^ Tu Ne Cede Malis
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: NRA gun nuts enact anti-libertarian Law in Florida
Wrong, the whole theory of individual rights is just as much an abstract as community is. If you don't think so, then the alternative is the law of jungle, or as Mr. Shirley says, the person with the biggest hammer. Just because we are moving back in the direction of the law of the jungle, doesn't mean that all rule of law (or abstracts) is a scam, it only means that what passes for rule of law today is. Goat Yup. The reason that we get to live to a ripe old age is because we don't get left with the kill or be killed choice that you get without law and civilization. That doesn't mean you can't have a libertarian society. The one I grew up in was pretty much that way back when Nevada had a minarchy rather than a State. (Defined as a government which has become it's own primary constituency.) A libertarian society wouldn't require a coercive state and its endless laws to be civilized. Neo Cons tend to believe that other people are evil, and thus must be watched by the States enforcers. Neo Libs tend to believe that other people are stupid, and thus must be protected by the States enforcers. Combine the two, and one has a rather familiar warfare/welfare state. I was once a minarchist, until I realized the folly of the position. Tu Ne Cede Malis
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: NRA gun nuts enact anti-libertarian Law in Florida
At 12:13 PM 4/12/2008, you wrote: Zack Bass wrote: --- In mailto:LibertarianEnterprise%40yahoogroups.comLibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, Roy J. Tellason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Friday 11 April 2008 23:34, Zack Bass wrote: the parking lot IS the employer's property, and he has a moral right to demand whatever terms he chooses to place upon entry thereto, including what weapons are in the car and what color the driver is. I disagree with this, But it isn't the owner of the property you think it is. The State of Florida is the administrator for the real owner, and they say if the occupant running the biz there has to allow his workers to be able to allow them to bring their guns to work with them, then you shouldn't mind if they do against the wishes of the occupant, by your argument. Goat Government is the *real* owner of everything(and everyone...Look at conscription). Which is one of the things that makes it so fundamentally evil, and dangerous. Bottom line in this context, might makes right. It doesn't matter what illusions, delusions are used to mask it. Call it the divine right of Kings or The Will Of The People. At its base its the same thing, no matter if they are elected or self appointed. The reality is that the Few(backed by their thugs) RULE and can and will imprison/kill anyone who opposes their RULE. Until people realize that The Greater Good Society Community are abstract SCAMS used by the Few who Rule, little of substance will change. Tu Ne Cede Malis
[LibertarianEnterprise] Pro Gun Shows
http://www.peoplesrights.org/articletemplate.asp?id=202 This may be of interest. Tu Ne Cede Malis
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Re: The Reconquista
At 07:00 PM 4/5/2008, you wrote: On Sat, 05 Apr 2008 16:06:10 -, gerryagnew mailto:gaea%40telus.net[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The map can be seen here: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/images/absolut.jpghttp://www.worldne tdaily.com/images/absolut.jpg The story can be read here: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.viewpageId=60642h ttp://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.viewpageId=60642 Thank you Michael. One of the comments I saw abut the ad would be for Absolut to do an ad about reality in Sweden in 1943: namely a cross between the Swedish flag and the German swastika. This would be an excellent truth of Sweden back then - neutral in favour of Germany! Someone who better at Photoshop than I am can run with this. Or maybe Scott Bieser can come up with an appropriate cartoon. Frank Ney N4ZHG WV/EMT-B NRA(L) GOA CCRKBA JPFO ProvNRA LPWV Interesting concepts. Given the birth rates(different populations) its only a matter of time before this is entirely possible. Of course, New Rome on the Potomac has demonstrated that its willing to kill any number of our people(620,000 last time) to maintain its power. So its likely to get very ugly. Its amusing that even Neo Con central(WND) can stumble on the truth once in a while. ^^ Tu Ne Cede Malis
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Deleted and Banned
At 03:31 PM 2/17/2008, you wrote: Mr. Charles Barnes has been banned from this group. His messages have been deleted as spam. Anyone who wishes to entertain themselves may cost Charles some money by calling his 800 number 800-381-4022 from an auto-dialer. Folks, I don't like to deny new membership applications. But, if I don't get a message and it looks likely to be a spammer, I might start doing so. I don't like to delete messages. But, spam has no place on this list. If someone wants to advertise in TLE, that's great, and there's a low cost of entry. I don't like to ban members. But all fruit diet is not related to any article or letter I've seen in TLE. To make this list available to people to discuss articles in TLE means keeping it reasonably free of spam. Anyone who wants to hunt the scum down and rampage his web sites, well, you know what to do. Thanks Jim. Tu Ne Cede Malis
[LibertarianEnterprise] Modest Proposal
http://tinyurl.com/2loxby Yet another massacre in yet another Gun Free Zone...And of course the lone nut yet again kills them self. I have a Modest Proposal that would deal with this problem in short order. Make ANY organization that insists on keeping people disarmed TOTALLY LIABLE for any and all injuries or deaths that result as a consequence. Better yet, make the members of the organizations leadership PERSONALLY liable. Want to bet how long it would be before Gun Free Zones fade out of existence? Tu Ne Cede Malis
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Disgraceful
At 07:59 PM 2/12/2008, you wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday 12 February 2008, Wraith was heard to say: http://tinyurl.com/yruq34http://tinyurl.com/yruq34 I find it interesting how he completely violates the 5th Amendment, so lightly saying that force can be used against witnesses that refuse to answer questions. Makes me wonder, just why does he think the Bill of Rights was written at all? Which sadly begs the question, Does he think? Neo Con Mode:ON Don't you know that we are at WAR?!? That excuses ANYTHING and EVERYTHING!... Anyone who objects is at least soft on terrorism and at worst a Traitor to the Home Land...Tragic isn't it? Tu Ne Cede Malis
[LibertarianEnterprise] Disgraceful
Totally disgraceful. The man should be immediately impeached. Along with his buddy who stated that the Bill of Rights is not a suicide pact. No wonder the country is in such a sorry state, when those whose job it is to protect and guard the Constitution take such positions. So, where does one draw the line? Or is there no action that can not be justified by appeal to circumstances? History is filled with examples of the horrors that result from such perspectives. http://tinyurl.com/yruq34 Tu Ne Cede Malis
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: An alternative to government? It seems possible!
At 02:06 PM 2/1/2008, you wrote: --- In mailto:LibertarianEnterprise%40yahoogroups.comLibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, Gregory M. Gauthier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One thing that's always bugged me about traditional Libertarianism, is the plain fact that no matter how willing we are, we're actually still submitting to force when being taxed for things like law enforcement and the military. The entire Justice System, including Law Enforcement, can be wholly funded by Perp Fees. A common misperception is that there are Perps who cannot pay their fines. That really isn't true. Everyone has SOMETHING of Value that can be taken from him when he Initiates Force. If he is healthy enough to cause trouble, he is healthy enough to have usable organs. Or he can serve as a sex slave or a lab rat or something if he prefers to keep his organs or they are infected. Up to him. No shortage of money. I haven't worked out the Military thing yet, but I reckon the same applies... any Military Action that is justified can be paid for by taking as much of the Aggressors' land and organs and slaves as the Victim Army feels is proper recompense. I suggest it wouldn't take many such Fines for perps to decide to get into another line of work. In terms of national defense, you may find this of interest. http://tinyurl.com/5jve8 Tu Ne Cede Malis
[LibertarianEnterprise] Treason?
Of course the US free media is ignoring this...As usual when anything dealing with such is involved. Lets all hope that this doesn't come back and bite us in a BIG way. http://tinyurl.com/32baaf Tu Ne Cede Malis
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Minarchist?? Actually MINISTATIST is more appropriate!
At 03:20 AM 1/25/2008, you wrote: --- In mailto:LibertarianEnterprise%40yahoogroups.comLibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, Wraith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Inquisitions and witch burning tend to make people like that... ^^ Given some of the hysterics in the fundie groups, they'd be happy to bring the bad old days back. Wicca is a 20th-century made-up gizmo... like Scientology. Long after The Inquisition. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiccahttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wicca And even during The Inquisition no one burned any witches in America. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witch-hunthttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witch-hunt Wiccans have nothing in common with those other witches. So you and some might say. Since I don't have a dog in this fight, it sounds more like the kettle calling the pot black. ^^ It all depends on who gets to make the definitions. Those with the most power(numbers)\ or those who choose to believe in a given belief system? And the stuff about the Do as thou wilt as being some sort of pseudo-religious creed cannot be traced back farther than Aleister Crowley - again, 20th century. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiccan_Redehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiccan_Rede No way this crap is thousands or even hundreds of years old! Chuckle...and this differs from crap made up thousands of years ago in what regard?... ^^ Interesting that you would label their system if beliefs as pseudo-religious. As opposed to the belief system of Real Religion(your own perhaps?) ^^ This may also be of interest. As I said, its all in who gets to define what. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Druid Tu Ne Cede Malis
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Minarchist?? Actually MINISTATIST is more appropriate!
--- In mailto:LibertarianEnterprise%40yahoogroups.comLibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, Valentine Michael Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Zack wrote: Wicca is a 20th-century made-up gizmo... like Scientology. Long after The Inquisition. In the state Virginia Wiccans cannot perform marriages. The military does not allow wicca signs on graves. The inquisition is still with us. So Wiccans, like followers of The Flying Spaghetti Monster, are not given the Special Privileges that The Government grants to real Religions. That's nothing like The Inquisition. They aren't hunted down and hanged. So...Just what is a real religion? One approved of by our collective Dear Leaders? Tu Ne Cede Malis
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Minarchist?? Actually MINISTATIST is more appropriate!
At 12:39 PM 1/25/2008, you wrote: --- In mailto:LibertarianEnterprise%40yahoogroups.comLibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, Valentine Michael Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you cannot prohibit the free exercise thereof how can you define it? If you cannot define it how can you avoid prohibiting the free exercise of... what? We live by definitions. There has to be an agreed-upon definition of every word in The Constitution, otherwise it would be nothing more than here's some stuff, see, and things happen, and other things are kinda not supposed to happen Come to think of it, that's the approach a lot of liberals take, re-define words so that The Constitution means whatever they like. Liberals?...That's been a favorite practice of the Neo Cons and everyone else who wants to do something that would other wise be restricted. Tu Ne Cede Malis
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Minarchist?? Actually MINISTATIST is more appropriate!
At 09:56 AM 1/24/2008, you wrote: They are a touchy bunch. Inquisitions and witch burning tend to make people like that... ^^ Given some of the hysterics in the fundie groups, they'd be happy to bring the bad old days back. Curt Howland wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Thursday 24 January 2008, Valentine Michael Smith was heard to say: Guess you've never heard of wicca. Harm ye none, do as ye will. I wrote it out in talk.politics.libertarian as An it harm none, do as you will and actually had a Wiccan lambast me for bringing religion into the discussion. Some days you just can't win. It would be interesting to collect all those old posts I made 1992-1998, if only to see how much better my spelling is now. :^) - -- November 5th: $4.3Million Dollars In One Day December 16th: $6 Million Dollars In One Day http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxldrCsVByAhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxldrCsVByA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxldrCsVByA -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iQEVAwUBR5in3S9Y35yItIgBAQLgGAf9GAQ1roMaYjegu17sVfe0Fa4/Gv8kWhsp tomNEl9ElHw16PAoL1eAXOhecqMNlwDw3AFkBrE+ANW8yPNDLwjb7gmc2S9RQhNF 6RAk8EetJGk3DSf5GIORY5ekodvbTtyAJDS4zeqiclTggD0g78YWPyNYziRq8iD8 AdlTeIpLnzQvVNatx4iornpQ4Mx0+URGafA5BHW0FSaj3f1KBZ2sfoJZYW3WigBq 1Mtnshna3/ABLDFjgDv5pE7wTgQJoPO8fMnmLs2UIZR8IKvj3u7obhg5KTDJxB97 SdVL/JIrIq596um9D0mfFAuM0mvIUoE56TalddHo3IVjI4fPbAxwMQ== =7lzL -END PGP SIGNATURE- Tu Ne Cede Malis
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Minarchist?? Actually MINISTATIST is more appropriate!
At 01:55 AM 1/22/2008, you wrote: Nah, it's a Crime without a Victim, as I said. And Malum Prohibitum is not necessarily religion enacted into law, since it is possible and indeed common to have a Law that is not religiously motivated (e.g. Practicing Medicine Without A License). Therefore Malum Prohibitum does NOT mean the same thing as religion enacted into law. Practicing(Medicine/plumbing etc) is an example of protection of an existing guild (in the guise of protecting The People of course). As you state, there are two base classes. Things that are evil in and of themselves(which gets in to perceptions, beliefs) and things that are evil because some Dear Leader along the way has stated that they are(and the system has the power to punish those it claims have violated its dictates). The Law being simply the collected whims of who ever was in power at a given time. The theory of the Law, and its reality are VERY different. Tu Ne Cede Malis
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Minarchist?? Actually MINISTATIST is more appropriate!
--- In mailto:LibertarianEnterprise%40yahoogroups.comLibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, Curt Howland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Every example you give is based upon religious faith that might makes right. Don't get cute. You know that that is not the meaning of the word religion, and that those examples are not religion enacted into Law. Religion is a belief system. Just as Statism is. Both share a large number of common elements and operational principles. Both are mass control systems. Go far enough back in time, and there is damn little difference between the two. Those that exist today are mainly convenient illusions, delusions. Such as Divine Right of Kings and the current Will Of The People as an example. The reality is still the Few ruling the Many. The main difference is their tools are more subtle. But the iron fist still exists within the velvet glove of illusion, delusion. The Few really do not care what number of the Many they sacrifice to protect/advance their power/belief systems. Tu Ne Cede Malis
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Minarchist?? Actually MINISTATIST is more appropriate!
At 02:05 AM 1/22/2008, you wrote: --- In mailto:LibertarianEnterprise%40yahoogroups.comLibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, Wraith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm all too painfully aware of those who make different lessor evils arguments. But isn't following that approach how we ended up in our current sorry state? No. The problem has been that most people vote for the MORE EVIL candidate or Law when they have the chance. If they tended to vote for libertarian candidates, the parties would offer more and more libertarian choices. More evil from the perspective of a libertarian(note small L). There is also the difference between what people claim they believe in, and what they tolerate/support in reality. Both are aspects of human psychology and the power systems they create and maintain. Sad to say, the Vast Majority despise libertarianism and always will. Look at this from the perspective of Austrian economics market theory. There is damn little market for real liberty. One of the reasons, is that the vast majority are frightened of taking responsibility for their own actions/inactions, and the consequences there of. Add in the fact that there is almost always some Dear Leader type, more than willing to tell the m-asses what they want to hear, rather than what they need to hear, and you have the reality of human power systems. Tu Ne Cede Malis
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Minarchist?? Actually MINISTATIST is more appropriate!
At 09:02 AM 1/22/2008, you wrote: --- In mailto:LibertarianEnterprise%40yahoogroups.comLibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, Wraith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The reality is still the Few ruling the Many. Not here, not now; you're living in the dead past. The reality here and now is the Many ruling the Few. It's called Democracy and it is Evil. No. Its still the Few ruling the Many. This is not a democracy. Far from it in fact. While democracy would be worse(by far) the current system is a nasty combination of fascism and socialism. The election system picks which of the systems anointed will join the Few who rule this cycle. Its a rigged system from the very start. Tu Ne Cede Malis
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Minarchist?? Actually MINISTATIST is more appropriate!
At 09:24 AM 1/22/2008, you wrote: --- In mailto:LibertarianEnterprise%40yahoogroups.comLibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, Curt Howland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A power grab for something they believe in. People often advocate things that are not Religion. True to an extent. But religious belief colors the vast majorities perspectives in much the way that water influences fish. It is part of their world view, and thus much that they do is influenced by that belief system. But its restrictions are only followed when they are convenient, with most people. Tu Ne Cede Malis
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Minarchist?? Actually MINISTATIST is more appropriate!
At 09:50 AM 1/22/2008, you wrote: --- In mailto:LibertarianEnterprise%40yahoogroups.comLibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, Wraith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No. Its still the Few ruling the Many. This is not a democracy. Sorry, in many respects it is. The Vast Majority don't get to weigh in on every facet of every issue, but when they DO get to express their preference it is almost always to prohibit Public Nudity, and Prostitution, and Gambling, shit like that, different Prohibitions in different places of course, depending on the preferences of the locals, but by and large their will IS expressed in Law. You're wasting your time believing that these Victimless Crime Laws are shoved down the throats of a Majority who oppose them; the depressing Truth is that, in the U.S., these Prohibitions are almost always shoved down the throats of a Minority by The Vast Majority. For religious reasons...^^ But anyone who thinks that this is a democracy hasn't paid attention to how the system works. Voting is only allowed for system approved individuals and subjects. Once in a blue moon there is an exception. But that simply demonstrates how rigged the system is. The Will Of The People, is what ever best benefits the Few who Rule at any given time. Can't believe you haven't noticed that. Jeez, we get people all the time around here fighting to get Lap-Dancing outlawed and shit like that, and it becomes obvious that The Vast Majority want these things outlawed and sure enough they are. Activists(there should be a Law against that!) types have always been with us. But activists make up a SMALL percentage of the population. Most people simply go about their life in their usual apathetic, thoughtless fashion. Until some activist/demagogue type gets them worked up, then one ends up with all manner of nonsense...From public nuisance laws, to horrors like the French reign of terror. Tu Ne Cede Malis
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Minarchist?? Actually MINISTATIST is more appropriate!
At 05:58 PM 1/21/2008, you wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Zack Bass wrote: duh Yep. Every example you give is based upon religious faith that might makes right. - Might doesn't make right...But it does make able. What the vast majority never seem to comprehend is that simply because you are *able* to do a thing, does NOT mean that one *should* do that thing. But of course, such matters little to the religious zealots within the various belief systems(including the various state ism's). As our Dear Leader has said; You're either with us, or you're with the terrorists!...(Rolls eyes at government by comic book illogic)... ^^ Tu Ne Cede Malis
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Minarchist?? Actually MINISTATIST is more appropriate!
At 08:35 AM 1/20/2008, you wrote: You guys need to read The Law by Frederick Bastiat One of the all time classics. I first read that decades ago. Tu Ne Cede Malis
[LibertarianEnterprise] Privacy
http://tinyurl.com/yp78e6 Ouch...Notice the company that the US and some other free countries share? No doubt this is just more hate/blame America propaganda. Those involved need to be gitmo'ed...Those who make such remarks, always fail to see the tragic irony. Tu Ne Cede Malis
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] McNewspaper poll on 2nd Am
At 05:16 PM 12/18/2007, you wrote: First - vote on this one. Second - launch it to all the pro-gun folks and have THEM vote - then we will see if the results get published. To vote in the USA Today poll, click on the link below. Does the Second Amendment give individuals the right to bear arms? Vote here: http://www.usatoday.com/news/quickquestion/2007/november/popup5895.htmhttp://www.usatoday.com/news/quickquestion/2007/november/popup5895.htmhttp://www.usatoday.com/news/quickquestion/2007/november/popup5895.htm -- Technically no it does not give individuals the right to keep and bear arms. The Second Amendment ACKNOWLEDGES A PRE EXISTING right. If the 2nd gave the right then it would be a privilege not a right and removing it from the constitution would be all that was needed by gun grabbing fanatics to get rid of the legal ownership of guns by citizens. However for the purpose of the poll I did cast my vote for yes. Frank Ney N4ZHG WV/EMT-B NRA(L) GOA CCRKBA JPFO ProvNRA LPWV Exactly so Frank. The entire Bill of Rights was about protecting pre existing rights from the power being granted to government. This inconvenient fact is all too often ignored by BOTH aspects of the Boot On Your Neck Party, and their respective toadies. Tu Ne Cede Malis
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Who Needs Government?
At 05:47 AM 11/19/2007, you wrote: Who Needs Government? Pirates, Collapsed States, and the Possibility of Anarchy http://www.cato-unbound.org/archives/august-2007/http://www.cato-unbound.org/archives/august-2007/ --Eric The answer to the title is...The Powers That Be. It is both their weapon, and their cloak. The weapon is obvious. The cloak is the illusion of legitimacy from which their authority flows. What started out as the Divine Right of Kings...Has morphed in to The Will of The People. With much the same classes of people on both sides. Look at how carefully they have poisoned any reference to anarchy. So that is so closely linked to chaos, death and destruction in the minds of the general population. Tu Ne Cede Malis
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Raids on Liberty Dollar AND eGold
At 04:40 PM 11/15/2007, you wrote: --- In mailto:LibertarianEnterprise%40yahoogroups.comLibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, Zack Bass [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In mailto:LibertarianEnterprise%40yahoogroups.comLibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, Dennis Lee Wilson dennisleewilson@ wrote: The point of THIS discussion thread is that government has made THAT option no longer available to individuals. And yet I was able effortlessly to inject a comment, related to that point, that was not exactly that point, which had already been made a few times. Ain't the internet gorgeous? Indeed. Using the internet is a gorgeous way to flog that which has become a really dead horse. Much like the US Constitution and Bill of Rights have?... Tu Ne Cede Malis
[LibertarianEnterprise] Email snooping
Warrants? We don't need no stinkin' warrants!... http://tinyurl.com/2wyb2p Tu Ne Cede Malis
[LibertarianEnterprise] Thought Crime
http://tinyurl.com/2qqmdg Our Dear Leaders aren't even bothering to be subtle any more. Just more of what we've come to expect. Tu Ne Cede Malis
[LibertarianEnterprise] Matrix
Does this sound like our situation, and what we are fighting? The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it. Laurence Fishburne as Morpheus Tu Ne Cede Malis
[LibertarianEnterprise] Gold standard
The struggle against gold which is one of the main concerns of all contemporary governments must not be looked upon as an isolated phenomenon. It is but one item in the gigantic process of destruction which is the mark of our time. People fight the gold standard because they want to substitute national autarky for free trade, war for peace, totalitarian government omnipotence for liberty. Ludwig Von Mises http://www.mises.org/humanaction/chap17sec19.asp Tu Ne Cede Malis
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Put your (least) favorite candidate in a blender
At 07:31 PM 9/26/2007, you wrote: http://www.joecartoon.com/blenderpollhttp://www.joecartoon.com/blenderpoll I figure Joe's probably going to be shot while resisting arrest by Homeland Security (which still sounds better in the original German) really soon now... Frank Ney N4ZHG WV/EMT-B NRA(L) GOA CCRKBA JPFO ProvNRA LPWV Since when does DHS even bother with excuses any more? They just detain/vanish who they want to. After all, one can't be too careful with the Security of das Vaterland... 2nd send. Tu Ne Cede Malis
[LibertarianEnterprise] Pain gun
NeoCon Mode:ON Just what we need for those terrorists at Gitmo...Not to mention dealing with traitors here in the Home Land...You KNOW that's how its going to end up being used. http://tinyurl.com/3bmlod Tu Ne Cede Malis
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Flying Southwest? Wear a burqa.
At 06:20 AM 9/9/2007, you wrote: Corporation don't exist in a free market. Free markets don't exist in collectivist societies. Socialist/Fascist or any combination there of. Collectivists are control freaks, a free market would be a waking nightmare to them. Tu Ne Cede Malis
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Press release Sept 5: Marriage is a Basic Civil Right
At 06:42 PM 9/5/2007, you wrote: On Sep 5, 2007, at 3:50 PM, Jay P. Hailey wrote: NO ONE ought to be allowed to get a Government Marriage License and be entitled to the Special Privileges it confers. Agreed. Jay ~Meow!~ Disagree in part. The government ought not be allowed to have any part is marriages and other arrangements of this kind between any two or any number of consenting adults. But given that the government is involved in this area it should treat all interested in this service equally. Since the government has poked its nose into this area that is none of its business it is wrong to put the onus on individuals to not deal with it since it has insisted on butting in. - samantha Wrong? Do you really think that those in power care about such things? ALL they care about is power, and the control that it brings. Right, wrong...They are the ones with the biggest guns. Not to mention the equally powerful weapons of the illusions of legitimacy and hence authority. The first US president understood that. Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. -- George Washington Government has NO business being involved...They are, simply because they can. Tu Ne Cede Malis
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Virginia Tech whitewash report
At 09:59 AM 8/30/2007, you wrote: The report is in from the Virginia Tech shooting--a complete whitewash. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070830/ap_on_re_us/virginia_tech_investigationhttp://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070830/ap_on_re_us/virginia_tech_investigation No justice, naturally because the criminal killed himself so the USA criminal-justice system cannot dispense justice to him--although they did a pretty good job of absolving him of blame. No victim compensation because the USA does not have a victim-justice system for compensating victims and the aggressor is dead. (Civil court mostly further victimizes the victims). However, it doesn't look like the tax payers will be forced to pay further compensation--at least not directly to the original victims. (Virginia school officials will probably see their budgets increased as did most government agencies after 9/11). And there will not even be vengence, which the USA system is designed to provide in copious quantities. The school government employees-in-charge were protected by the state government employee-in-charge because ...the school's officials had suffered enough without losing their jobs. Far exceeding their authority by banning guns from campus, in defiance of state law and the Second Amendment, is apparently NOT sufficiently criminal to merit punishing government school employees, nor even sufficient for putting them on trial. Although gun owning was not directly targeted by the report, it is doubtful that gun owners have seen the last of new, unconstitutional regulations using this event as the excuse for making gun ownership more criminal. Dennis You didn't expect any other result from such, did you? It was strictly for forms sake. Anyone with any common sense KNOWS why this happened. Its the natural result of stripping people of a basic right like self defense. But what else would one expect from collectivists? Tu Ne Cede Malis
[LibertarianEnterprise] CRT
Some of you may be interested in this...It seems that Fatherland Security is planning to use clergy to do some of their dirty work. http://tinyurl.com/3dv43x http://tinyurl.com/2z663j Tu Ne Cede Malis
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] LXer: Results Not Surprising: Hackers find serious problems in California voting machines
At 04:42 AM 8/5/2007, you wrote: Curt. You know these things as well as I do. Democracy is no better than any other dictatorship. Voting machines just automate things for them as don't care who nominates but just who counts. As an individualist, I don't care about who nominates, who counts, or who votes. Their prejudice have no influence on my rights or my decisions. In a democracy the mob rules the way it always does, with torches and pitchforks. Those tools are not changed by whatever regime plants its ass in the capitol city. It doesn't matter what arguments you use. What pseudonym is yours in that long conversation I paged through? - Excellent points. Might makes right has always been one of the primary themes in human existence. The only difference in the more modern times, is the rationalizations and justifications used to mask that reality. Tyranny of the many is just as bad(if not worse) than that of one dictator. Self government isn't even considered by the vast majority of the human race. As long as that remains the case, the Few who Rule will continue with their reign of error. Tu Ne Cede Malis
