Re: GSoC in contemporary notations

[Urs Liska]

Hi Tzk Kiu,

Am 21.03.19 um 13:06 schrieb Tsz Kiu Pang:

Hi Urs,

Thank you for your reply, and thank you so much for asking about my name.


On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 at 17:58, Urs Liska > wrote:


Hi Tsz Kiu Pang (which of these names would you like to be called, or
should I use all of them like I did?)


Tsz Kiu Pang is fine, though people usually call me Tsz Kiu, which is 
my first name.



> I was just looking at the project suggestions, and am interested
in working
> on contemporary notations.

This would be great. While all of our GSoC suggestions would be very
welcome additions this one would maybe provide the most "visible" and
spectacular addition, opening up LilyPond for a whole range of
applications and therefore potential users.


I am glad to hear that my interests align with you guys.

A specific composer's package would be a secondary package built
on top
of a general package, and I think it would be great to aim at
starting
one for one specific composer (the one I had always thought of as a
basis was Lachenmann, but Xenakis or Carter are equally valid
choices),
although it is not a requirement to achieve /comprehensive/
coverage of
a composer.


Yes, I agree that the secondary package would have to be build on top 
of a general package, and this is great since I hope this project can 
make contemporary notation accessible to LilyPond users in a general 
sense, but not just focusing on one or two composers.



The idea (as far as I have thought about it in the past) is to provide 
"building blocks" like functions that help create custom elements that 
behave like slurs ("lines" connecting two notes), elements that use 
paths to draw custom notation elements and more such basics. On top of 
that concrete commands should be built and organized maybe by repertoire 
or composer or whatever. But the building blocks should enable the 
creation of packages supporting something specific or the creation of a 
personal library of one's own notation repertoire.






The Scheme/Guile part has three steps for you to consider:

  * "Counting parentheses" (i.e. the language basics)
    Depending on how far you've got https://scheme-book.ursliska.de
    might be a useful resource for you. It goes only that far but it
    specifically addresses a) the Scheme language from a dedicated
    LilyPond perspective and b) users counting parentheses (i.e.
giving
    a pretty slow-paced introduction)
  * Understanding how Scheme is hooked into LilyPond (on a general
level)
  * (Learning how openLilyLib ist structured)
  * Learning how to retrieve the relevant information about score
    elements and how to modify them in appropriate places.

The last one is probably the hardest one since it is pretty opaque
and
terribly documented. But it's the crucial one for a contemporary
notation package - and it's the one where such a package will make it
hugely easier for people to work with non-standard notation.


They all sound pretty hard, but your website seems like a great 
resource. I will definitely have a look at it.
Regarding learning how Scheme is hooked into LilyPond, what is some 
other good resource for it, apart from your website?



The "official" reference is at 
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/extending/index. However, 
one may find it somewhat hard to digest since obviously it is not always 
written with readers in mind who do not already know a lot about it ...




Just last week I've decided to start with a new openLilyLib package:
https://github.com/openlilylib/grob-tools. The repository on
Github is
empty, and right now I only have one single uncommited function
locally,
but the idea is to create building blocks for recurring tasks like
getting the exact position of objects relative to the staff or to
another object, enumerating all NoteColumns included in a slur or
similar things. This will be very much relevant for a contemporary
notation package. One could either say that you should put much of
your
results in that package, or we can try to make development of that
package a community effort so that would take work from you,
giving you
the freedom to go further with the specific challenges.

Making the development as a community effort sounds great, though I 
cannot say for sure until I have a solid proposal.



What I mean is that to some extent that package could be developed by 
others ("the community"), relieving you from some of the work. However, 
I absolutely can't make any promise that this would work out with regard 
to the community dynamic.





What you should do now is:

  * [of course dive more into Scheme]
  * get an understanding of openLilyLib with
    a) https://github.com/openlilylib/oll-core/wiki
    b) the code in that 

Re: Can GUB-build stable/2.20 [was Re: Still cannot build GUB with stable/2.20 branch]

[John Mandereau]

On Fri, 2019-03-22 at 13:41 +, Phil Holmes wrote:
> The website is now also updated - I had previously forgotten that I
> would 
> need to update news and VERSION etc. in staging and master.  This has
> to be 
> done because the website is built from master automatically.

Great!

I'm a bit puzzled by the news items history, and also by the difference
in the order of items between the short list on the home page and the
news page. This may be intentional, though.

On the Git branches side, the name stable/test didn't make its purpose
obvious from its name, even if I can understand it if we think about
how hard we have fought for months with building binaries; should you
routinely merge stable/test into stable/2.20, or is this up to David?
I'm asking this mostly for preparing an update in the CG. 

Best,
John



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Re: Can GUB-build stable/2.20 [was Re: Still cannot build GUB with stable/2.20 branch]

[Phil Holmes]

- Original Message - 
From: "Karlin High" 

To: "Phil Holmes" ; "David Kastrup" 
Cc: "Lily devel" 
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2019 11:05 AM
Subject: Re: Can GUB-build stable/2.20 [was Re: Still cannot build GUB with 
stable/2.20 branch]




On 3/22/2019 5:43 AM, Phil Holmes wrote:
the upload then went smoothly. I'm now allowing the 2 cron jobs that 
create the website to run. The new build should be visible in an hour or 
so.


The 2.19.83 binaries are already visible.



I downloaded and installed the Windows one, seems to work fine.

Glad to see builds happening again!
--
Karlin High
Missouri, USA



The website is now also updated - I had previously forgotten that I would 
need to update news and VERSION etc. in staging and master.  This has to be 
done because the website is built from master automatically.


--
Phil Holmes 



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Re: Can GUB-build stable/2.20

[Werner LEMBERG]

> I created a lilypond group, added my gub user to it and the upload
> then went smoothly.  I'm now allowing the 2 cron jobs that create
> the website to run.  The new build should be visible in an hour or
> so.

Thanks a lot for your efforts!


Werner

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Re: Can GUB-build stable/2.20 [was Re: Still cannot build GUB with stable/2.20 branch]

[Karlin High]

On 3/22/2019 5:43 AM, Phil Holmes wrote:
the upload then went smoothly.  I'm now allowing the 2 cron jobs that 
create the website to run. The new build should be visible in an hour or so.


The 2.19.83 binaries are already visible.



I downloaded and installed the Windows one, seems to work fine.

Glad to see builds happening again!
--
Karlin High
Missouri, USA

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Re: Can GUB-build stable/2.20 [was Re: Still cannot build GUB with stable/2.20 branch]

[Phil Holmes]

I created a lilypond group, added my gub user to it and the upload then went 
smoothly.  I'm now allowing the 2 cron jobs that create the website to run. 
The new build should be visible in an hour or so.


I used a new branch (stable/test) cloned from stable/2.20 for the build. 
Once all is well, I'll delete it.


--
Phil Holmes 



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