Re: Shape of individual ties in chords
On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 11:44 AM, David Kastrup wrote:
> Simon Bailey writes:
>> two i can think of:
>> - it can't be quoted (at least i haven't found the correct event to
>> quote yet)
>
> I think that this will be fixed as a side effect of
> http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=3810>.
cool. i _really_ like the new rhythm syntax. :)
> and of course, you can always call \chordRepeats explicitly on the music
> you want to quote.
first time i've heard about that function. :) yes, it's in the
documentation, but only as a way to repeat event types on chords --
doesn't explicitly state that it would expand q to become the chords
in music expressions [but makes sense if you think outside of the box
a bit].
>> - it can't be altered with relative octave-switch commands
>
> Well, it would be so weird behavior in a \relative section that I'm
> actually glad about that. Why would you even want to do that?
in the piano music i've been typesetting over the last few months,
i've come across a lot of chords that jump around in octaves -- being
able to octave a chord repetition would sometimes be handy. a very
trivial example:
%%% SNIPSNAP %%%
\new PianoStaff <<
\new Staff = "up" \relative c' { 2 2 }
\new Staff = "down" \relative c { \clef bass 2 2 }
}
%%% SNAPSNIP %%%
could conceivably be written as:
%%% SNIPSNAP %%%
\new PianoStaff <<
\new Staff = "up" \relative c' { 2 q' }
\new Staff = "down" \relative c { \clef bass 2 q, }
}
%%% SNAPSNIP %%%
may or may not be a fringe case.
regards,
sb
--
Do not meddle in the affairs of trombonists, for they are subtle and
quick to anger.
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Re: Shape of individual ties in chords
David Kastrup writes: > Simon Bailey writes: [ q ] >> two i can think of: >> - it can't be quoted (at least i haven't found the correct event to >> quote yet) > > I think that this will be fixed as a side effect of > http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=3810>. and of course, you can always call \chordRepeats explicitly on the music you want to quote. -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Shape of individual ties in chords
Simon Bailey writes: > James, > > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 10:56 AM, James wrote: >>> there's a few things which are only documented in the learning manual. :) >>> >>> >> Actually I would change that last sentence to read: >> >> There's a few things which are not documented in the Learning Manual. >> >> And this is a deliberate decision. If not, it's still a good decision. > > i realised my mistake almost as soon as i pressed send. the link i > sent is to the NR and there's an amazing amount of information not > covered in the LM. Correctly so. > >> I don't see q as being needed in the Learning Manual as a good thing; apart >> from all the discussion how 'q' is a rather arbitrary 'command' - why 'q'? >> what does 'q' stand for etc., not knowing q doesn't lose you any >> functionality (i.e. there is nothing that q does that you cannot already do >> with the 'correct' syntax) but there are limitations using q - which >> are/should be documented in the Notation Reference. > > two i can think of: > - it can't be quoted (at least i haven't found the correct event to > quote yet) I think that this will be fixed as a side effect of http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=3810>. > - it can't be altered with relative octave-switch commands Well, it would be so weird behavior in a \relative section that I'm actually glad about that. Why would you even want to do that? -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Shape of individual ties in chords
James, On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 10:56 AM, James wrote: >> there's a few things which are only documented in the learning manual. :) >> >> > Actually I would change that last sentence to read: > > There's a few things which are not documented in the Learning Manual. > > And this is a deliberate decision. If not, it's still a good decision. i realised my mistake almost as soon as i pressed send. the link i sent is to the NR and there's an amazing amount of information not covered in the LM. Correctly so. > I don't see q as being needed in the Learning Manual as a good thing; apart > from all the discussion how 'q' is a rather arbitrary 'command' - why 'q'? > what does 'q' stand for etc., not knowing q doesn't lose you any > functionality (i.e. there is nothing that q does that you cannot already do > with the 'correct' syntax) but there are limitations using q - which > are/should be documented in the Notation Reference. two i can think of: - it can't be quoted (at least i haven't found the correct event to quote yet) - it can't be altered with relative octave-switch commands > As to the quote: > > there's a few things which are only documented in the learning manual. :) > > That implies that we're missing things in the NR that shoudl be in there. If > so then let the list know (lilypond-...@gnu.org) and that can be fixed. i remember looking for something fairly basic a while back and only finding it in the LM. at the time, i decided that it deserves to be in the LM and may not really be needed in the NR. however, for the life of me, i cannot remember what it was i was looking for. :) if i come across it again, i'll shout. ;) regards, sb -- Do not meddle in the affairs of trombonists, for they are subtle and quick to anger. ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Shape of individual ties in chords
On 24/01/14 09:22, Simon Bailey wrote: hi, On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 10:16 AM, Richard Shann wrote: Thanks for this - while playing around with it I noticed the mysterious synatx q that appears. I tried looking this up in the two indices without success. It causes a syntax error after a note but repeats a chord when placed after a chord. I wonder what exactly it is all about and why I can't find it documented... http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/notation/single-voice#chord-repetition there's a few things which are only documented in the learning manual. :) Actually I would change that last sentence to read: There's a few things which are not documented in the Learning Manual. And this is a deliberate decision. If not, it's still a good decision. I don't see q as being needed in the Learning Manual as a good thing; apart from all the discussion how 'q' is a rather arbitrary 'command' - why 'q'? what does 'q' stand for etc., not knowing q doesn't lose you any functionality (i.e. there is nothing that q does that you cannot already do with the 'correct' syntax) but there are limitations using q - which are/should be documented in the Notation Reference. As to the quote: there's a few things which are only documented in the learning manual. :) That implies that we're missing things in the NR that shoudl be in there. If so then let the list know (lilypond-...@gnu.org) and that can be fixed. Thanks James ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Shape of individual ties in chords
On Fri, 2014-01-24 at 10:31 +0100, David Kastrup wrote: > Richard Shann writes: > > > On Fri, 2014-01-24 at 10:26 +0100, David Kastrup wrote: > >> Simon Bailey writes: > >> > >> > hi, > >> > > >> > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 10:16 AM, Richard Shann > >> > wrote: > >> >> Thanks for this - while playing around with it I noticed the mysterious > >> >> synatx q that appears. I tried looking this up in the two indices > >> >> without success. It causes a syntax error after a note but repeats a > >> >> chord when placed after a chord. I wonder what exactly it is all about > >> >> and why I can't find it documented... > >> > > >> > http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/notation/single-voice#chord-repetition > >> > > >> > there's a few things which are only documented in the learning > >> > manual. :) > >> > >> Not this one, though. > > > > So is this a bug with the documentation (incomplete indexing)? > > Well, we don't have c, cis, ces... indexed, either. Admittedly, we do > have r, s, and R in the index. yes, I was thinking about that - there is the language include file that would affect some of those, but to be practical, I don't recall ever noticing q in the past ten years or so of watching and using LilyPond (well, I virtually never have to write chords myself so perhaps it is not surprising) Richard ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Shape of individual ties in chords
Richard Shann writes: > On Fri, 2014-01-24 at 10:26 +0100, David Kastrup wrote: >> Simon Bailey writes: >> >> > hi, >> > >> > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 10:16 AM, Richard Shann >> > wrote: >> >> Thanks for this - while playing around with it I noticed the mysterious >> >> synatx q that appears. I tried looking this up in the two indices >> >> without success. It causes a syntax error after a note but repeats a >> >> chord when placed after a chord. I wonder what exactly it is all about >> >> and why I can't find it documented... >> > >> > http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/notation/single-voice#chord-repetition >> > >> > there's a few things which are only documented in the learning >> > manual. :) >> >> Not this one, though. > > So is this a bug with the documentation (incomplete indexing)? Well, we don't have c, cis, ces... indexed, either. Admittedly, we do have r, s, and R in the index. -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Shape of individual ties in chords
On Fri, 2014-01-24 at 10:26 +0100, David Kastrup wrote: > Simon Bailey writes: > > > hi, > > > > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 10:16 AM, Richard Shann > > wrote: > >> Thanks for this - while playing around with it I noticed the mysterious > >> synatx q that appears. I tried looking this up in the two indices > >> without success. It causes a syntax error after a note but repeats a > >> chord when placed after a chord. I wonder what exactly it is all about > >> and why I can't find it documented... > > > > http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/notation/single-voice#chord-repetition > > > > there's a few things which are only documented in the learning > > manual. :) > > Not this one, though. So is this a bug with the documentation (incomplete indexing)? Richard ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Shape of individual ties in chords
On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 10:26 AM, David Kastrup wrote: > Simon Bailey writes: > >> hi, >> >> On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 10:16 AM, Richard Shann >> wrote: >>> Thanks for this - while playing around with it I noticed the mysterious >>> synatx q that appears. I tried looking this up in the two indices >>> without success. It causes a syntax error after a note but repeats a >>> chord when placed after a chord. I wonder what exactly it is all about >>> and why I can't find it documented... >> >> http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/notation/single-voice#chord-repetition >> >> there's a few things which are only documented in the learning >> manual. :) > > Not this one, though. i was about to correct the error of my ways -- the link is to the NR not the LM. sorry :) ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Shape of individual ties in chords
Richard Shann writes: > Thanks for this - while playing around with it I noticed the mysterious > synatx q that appears. I tried looking this up in the two indices > without success. It causes a syntax error after a note but repeats a > chord when placed after a chord. I wonder what exactly it is all about > and why I can't find it documented... http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/notation/single-voice#chord-repetition> -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Shape of individual ties in chords
Simon Bailey writes: > hi, > > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 10:16 AM, Richard Shann > wrote: >> Thanks for this - while playing around with it I noticed the mysterious >> synatx q that appears. I tried looking this up in the two indices >> without success. It causes a syntax error after a note but repeats a >> chord when placed after a chord. I wonder what exactly it is all about >> and why I can't find it documented... > > http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/notation/single-voice#chord-repetition > > there's a few things which are only documented in the learning > manual. :) Not this one, though. -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Shape of individual ties in chords
hi, On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 10:16 AM, Richard Shann wrote: > Thanks for this - while playing around with it I noticed the mysterious > synatx q that appears. I tried looking this up in the two indices > without success. It causes a syntax error after a note but repeats a > chord when placed after a chord. I wonder what exactly it is all about > and why I can't find it documented... http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/notation/single-voice#chord-repetition there's a few things which are only documented in the learning manual. :) -- Do not meddle in the affairs of trombonists, for they are subtle and quick to anger. ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Shape of individual ties in chords
Thanks for this - while playing around with it I noticed the mysterious synatx q that appears. I tried looking this up in the two indices without success. It causes a syntax error after a note but repeats a chord when placed after a chord. I wonder what exactly it is all about and why I can't find it documented... Richard On Thu, 2014-01-23 at 08:01 -0600, David Nalesnik wrote: > Hi, > > > On Wed, Jan 22, 2014 at 4:55 PM, Thomas Morley > wrote: > > Below some coding just to show that it can be done. > It's a very first sketch, several issues are present (p.e. > linebreak) > Might be a starting point, though. > > > > There's also the attached file (which comes > from > http://www.mail-archive.com/lilypond-devel@gnu.org/msg47432/shape-tie-columns.ly) > which will work with broken ties. > > > HTH, > David ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Shape of individual ties in chords
On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 8:01 AM, David Nalesnik wrote: > >> >>> >> There's also the attached file (which comes from >> http://www.mail-archive.com/lilypond-devel@gnu.org/msg47432/shape-tie-columns.ly) >> which will work with broken ties. >> >> > Here are some more useful values: \shapeTieColumn #'( ( () ((0 . 0.5) (0 . 0.5) (0 . 0.5) (0 . 0.5)) ) ; bottom ( () ((0 . 0) (0.33 . -0.25) (0.67 . -0.25) (1.0 . 0))) ; middle ( () ((0 . -0.5) (0 . -0.5) (0 . -0.5) (0 . -0.5)) ) ) % top ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Shape of individual ties in chords
Hi again, On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 8:01 AM, David Nalesnik wrote: > Hi, > > > On Wed, Jan 22, 2014 at 4:55 PM, Thomas Morley > wrote: > > >> Below some coding just to show that it can be done. >> It's a very first sketch, several issues are present (p.e. linebreak) >> Might be a starting point, though. >> >> > There's also the attached file (which comes from > http://www.mail-archive.com/lilypond-devel@gnu.org/msg47432/shape-tie-columns.ly) > which will work with broken ties. > > I should point out that in the example, the first part of the broken ties is left alone: () there is equivalent to ((0 . 0) (0 . 0) (0 . 0) (0 . 0)). --David ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Shape of individual ties in chords
Hi,
On Wed, Jan 22, 2014 at 4:55 PM, Thomas Morley wrote:
> Below some coding just to show that it can be done.
> It's a very first sketch, several issues are present (p.e. linebreak)
> Might be a starting point, though.
>
>
There's also the attached file (which comes from
http://www.mail-archive.com/lilypond-devel@gnu.org/msg47432/shape-tie-columns.ly)
which will work with broken ties.
HTH,
David
\version "2.18.0"
function for offsetting control-points of a TieColumn %
shapeTieColumn =
#(define-music-function (parser location all-offsets) (list?)
#{
\once \override TieColumn #'after-line-breaking =
#(lambda (grob)
(let ((ties (ly:grob-array->list (ly:grob-object grob 'ties
(for-each
(lambda (tie offsets-for-broken-pair)
(let* ((orig (ly:grob-original tie))
(siblings (ly:spanner-broken-into orig)))
(for-each
(lambda (piece offsets-for-piece)
(if (pair? offsets-for-piece)
(set! (ly:grob-property piece 'control-points)
(map
(lambda (x y) (coord-translate x y))
(ly:tie::calc-control-points piece)
offsets-for-piece
(if (null? siblings)
(list orig)
siblings)
offsets-for-broken-pair)))
ties all-offsets)))
#})
%% EXAMPLE %
{
1 ~
\break
q
\break
q ~
\shapeTieColumn #'(
( () ((0 . 1) (0 . 1) (0 . 1) (0 . 1)) )
( () ((0 . -0.1) (0.5 . -0.4) (1.5 . -0.4) (2 . -0.1)))
( () ((0 . -2) (0 . -1) (0 . -1) (0 . -1)) ) )
\break
q
}
\layout {
indent = 0
ragged-right = ##t
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Re: Shape of individual ties in chords
2014/1/17 David Kastrup :
> Richard Shann writes:
>
>> Reading over the documentation on changing the tie shape for ties in
>> chords I gather that it is not possible to do this at all:
>>
>> http://www.lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/notation/modifying-shapes#modifying-ties-and-slurs
>
>> It is not possible to modify shapes of ties or slurs by changing the
>> control-points property if there are multiple ties or slurs at the
>> same musical moment – the \tweak command will also not work in this
>> case. However, the tie-configuration property of TieColumn can be
>> overridden to set start line and direction as required.
>>
>> I think the documents should be more up front about that. Saying it is
>> not possible to do it one way, or another way, and then going on to
>> describe something else that *is* possible is a bit of weasel-wording.
>> Unless, that is, there is actually some LilyPond syntax to do this.
>
> Redirected to developer list.
>
> This is one case where I think it would make more sense to relinquish
> the restrictions rather than document them. It seems like this would
> require transferring properties and/or tweaks from tie events to the
> tie-configuration of TieColumn. There probably is already some issue in
> the bug tracker for this.
>
> Backend guys, any ideas?
>
> --
> David Kastrup
Hi,
sorry for the late reply, I was completely off for some time.
Below some coding just to show that it can be done.
It's a very first sketch, several issues are present (p.e. linebreak)
Might be a starting point, though.
\version "2.18.0"
affect-TieColumn =
#(define-music-function (parser location offsets)(list?)
#{
\once
\override TieColumn #'after-line-breaking =
#(lambda (grob)
(let* ((ties (ly:grob-array->list (ly:grob-object grob 'ties)))
(c-ps
(map
(lambda (tie) (ly:grob-property tie 'control-points))
ties)))
(define (offset-control-points coords offsets)
(if (null? offsets)
(car c-ps)
(map
(lambda (x y) (coord-translate x y))
coords offsets)))
(define (help offs pts new-pts)
(if (null? offs)
(reverse new-pts)
(help (cdr offs) (cdr pts)
(cons (offset-control-points (car pts) (car offs)) new-pts
(for-each
(lambda (tie cpts) (ly:grob-set-property! tie 'control-points cpts))
ties
(help offsets c-ps '()
#})
%% crazy values taken, to show it works
{
2 ~
\affect-TieColumn #'( ((0 . -4) (2 . 3) (4 . 5) (6 . 7));; bottom
((-1 . 0) (0 . 0) (0 . 0) (0 . 0)) ;; middle
((-5 . 3) (0 . 0) (0 . 0) (0 . 0)) ;; top
)
q
}
Cheers,
Harm
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Re: Shape of individual ties in chords
Richard Shann writes: > Reading over the documentation on changing the tie shape for ties in > chords I gather that it is not possible to do this at all: > > http://www.lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/notation/modifying-shapes#modifying-ties-and-slurs > It is not possible to modify shapes of ties or slurs by changing the > control-points property if there are multiple ties or slurs at the > same musical moment – the \tweak command will also not work in this > case. However, the tie-configuration property of TieColumn can be > overridden to set start line and direction as required. > > I think the documents should be more up front about that. Saying it is > not possible to do it one way, or another way, and then going on to > describe something else that *is* possible is a bit of weasel-wording. > Unless, that is, there is actually some LilyPond syntax to do this. Redirected to developer list. This is one case where I think it would make more sense to relinquish the restrictions rather than document them. It seems like this would require transferring properties and/or tweaks from tie events to the tie-configuration of TieColumn. There probably is already some issue in the bug tracker for this. Backend guys, any ideas? -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
