Re: Avoiding slur collision with other voice
Trevor Daniels wrote: The 'slurs' in the hand-written score look as if they are really triplet indicators, with the '3' omitted from the later ones. Trevor is right to discriminate between slurs and tuplet indicators. Ted Ross (1970) discusses the use of the small slur but makes clear that it must be small enough to avoid confusing it with a slur (see attached png). On the other hand, Kurt Stone (1980) writes: Square brackets, rather than slurs, should be used for unbeamed triplets, etc., to avoid ambiguities. Slurs will thus only indicate phrasing or refer to other typical slur functions such as bowing. It is true that the small tuplet slur was at one time commonplace even among the great publishing houses, but I find the modern practice preferable. Perhaps LilyPond could implement a tuplet slur as an alternative to the bracket, provided it's small enough? Would anybody want that? It seems kind of low-priority to me. - Mark attachment: tuplet-slur.png___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Avoiding slur collision with other voice
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Montag, 6. April 2009 09:38:42 Mark Polesky wrote: Trevor Daniels wrote: The 'slurs' in the hand-written score look as if they are really triplet indicators, with the '3' omitted from the later ones. Trevor is right to discriminate between slurs and tuplet indicators. Ted Ross (1970) discusses the use of the small slur but makes clear that it must be small enough to avoid confusing it with a slur (see attached png). [...] Perhaps LilyPond could implement a tuplet slur as an alternative to the bracket, provided it's small enough? Would anybody want that? Yes, I would need it for MusicXML support. See the ‘23b-Tuplets-Styles.ly’ test case on http://kainhofer.com/~lilypond/input/regression/musicxml/collated-files.html#t_g23-_002e_002e_002e-Triplets-Tuplets Cheers, Reinhold - -- - -- Reinhold Kainhofer, reinh...@kainhofer.com, http://reinhold.kainhofer.com/ * Financial Actuarial Math., Vienna Univ. of Technology, Austria * http://www.fam.tuwien.ac.at/, DVR: 0005886 * LilyPond, Music typesetting, http://www.lilypond.org -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFJ2chuTqjEwhXvPN0RAmGzAKCYtDgZbiCFxeyWXYEVRsmpXX+zIACeIMuI clDsa945QHhSoZfm9QMdVX0= =iL+m -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Avoiding slur collision with other voice
Hello, with help by Trevor I got forward a lot with my scores. Currently I still have a little issue with slurs. The original score, that I want to mimic, has slurs _above_ the noteheads: http://dj1na.gmxhome.de/pg-0009.JPG Lilypond puts the slurs below the beams per default. This can be confusing with the triplet indication (see attached slur.ly, measure two, first two triplets). So I want to place them above the notedheads like it's done in the original source. I am uncertain if these slurs are legato slurs or phrasing slurs. I tried them both and did not found an important difference, probably I am too unexperienced ;-) Should I use () or \(\) ? Independent of the kind of slurs I get collisions between the slurs and the stems of the other voice. (see attached slur.ly, measure one) There are two pages only with such triplets, so I think it's hard to do this per slur manually. Can I tell lilypond to avoid these collisions with other voice? Regards, Helge ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Avoiding slur collision with other voice
Forgotten sample file attached...
Helge
Helge Kruse wrote:
Hello,
with help by Trevor I got forward a lot with my scores. Currently I
still have a little issue with slurs. The original score, that I want to
mimic, has slurs _above_ the noteheads: http://dj1na.gmxhome.de/pg-0009.JPG
Lilypond puts the slurs below the beams per default. This can be
confusing with the triplet indication (see attached slur.ly, measure
two, first two triplets). So I want to place them above the notedheads
like it's done in the original source.
I am uncertain if these slurs are legato slurs or phrasing slurs. I
tried them both and did not found an important difference, probably I am
too unexperienced ;-) Should I use () or \(\) ?
Independent of the kind of slurs I get collisions between the slurs and
the stems of the other voice. (see attached slur.ly, measure one) There
are two pages only with such triplets, so I think it's hard to do this
per slur manually.
Can I tell lilypond to avoid these collisions with other voice?
Regards,
Helge
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\score {
\relative c'' {
\clef treble \key as \minor \time 2/4
#(revert-auto-beam-setting '(end * * 2 4) 1 4 'Staff)
\set Staff.beatLength = #(ly:make-moment 1 8)
{ s8 ces r ces }
\\
{
\slurUp
\phrasingSlurUp
\times 2/3 { r16 as\( b\) }
\times 2/3 { ces( b as) }
\times 2/3 { r as( b) }
\times 2/3 { ces( b as) }
}
|
{ s8 des[ es des] } \\
{ \times 2/3 { r16( b ces) }
\times 2/3 { des( ces b) }
\times 2/3 { es( des ces) }
\times 2/3 { des( ces b) }
} |
}
}
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Re: Avoiding slur collision with other voice
To get the output by the sample, I would conceptualise this slightly
differently. First, there's no need to keep on writing \times 2/3 {}
every time. Lilypond can make that easier for you. Secondly, since a)
in the orginal it's done this way and b) it's clear by the musical
pattern, I would get rid of the \times 2/3 {} altogether after the
first measure. Then, you don't have to worry about tuplet brackets
and slurs colliding.
#(ly:set-option 'point-and-click #f)
#(ly:set-option 'delete-intermediate-files #t)
\version 2.12.2
\score {
\relative c'' {
\clef treble \key as \minor \time 2/4
#(revert-auto-beam-setting '(end * * 2 4) 1 4 'Staff)
\set Staff.beatLength = #(ly:make-moment 1 8)
{ s8 ces r ces
s8 des[ es des] }
\\
{
\set tupletSpannerDuration = #
(ly:make-moment 1 8)
\times 2/3 { r16 as^( b) ces( b as)
r as^( b) ces( b as) }
r16*2/3 b( ces) des( ces b) es( des
ces) des( ces b)
}
}
}
Am 05.04.2009 um 14:47 schrieb Helge Kruse:
Forgotten sample file attached...
Helge
Helge Kruse wrote:
Hello,
with help by Trevor I got forward a lot with my scores. Currently
I still have a little issue with slurs. The original score, that I
want to mimic, has slurs _above_ the noteheads: http://
dj1na.gmxhome.de/pg-0009.JPG
Lilypond puts the slurs below the beams per default. This can be
confusing with the triplet indication (see attached slur.ly,
measure two, first two triplets). So I want to place them above
the notedheads like it's done in the original source.
I am uncertain if these slurs are legato slurs or phrasing slurs.
I tried them both and did not found an important difference,
probably I am too unexperienced ;-) Should I use () or \(\) ?
Independent of the kind of slurs I get collisions between the
slurs and the stems of the other voice. (see attached slur.ly,
measure one) There are two pages only with such triplets, so I
think it's hard to do this per slur manually.
Can I tell lilypond to avoid these collisions with other voice?
Regards,
Helge
___
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\score {
\relative c'' {
\clef treble \key as \minor \time 2/4
#(revert-auto-beam-setting '(end * * 2 4) 1 4 'Staff)
\set Staff.beatLength = #(ly:make-moment 1 8)
{ s8 ces r ces }
\\
{
\slurUp
\phrasingSlurUp
\times 2/3 { r16 as\( b\) }
\times 2/3 { ces( b as) }
\times 2/3 { r as( b) }
\times 2/3 { ces( b as) }
}
|
{ s8 des[ es des] } \\
{ \times 2/3 { r16( b ces) }
\times 2/3 { des( ces b) }
\times 2/3 { es( des ces) }
\times 2/3 { des( ces b) }
} |
}
}
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James E. Bailey
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Re: Avoiding slur collision with other voice
Helge
The 'slurs' in the hand-written score look as if they are
really triplet indicators, with the '3' omitted from the
later ones. If so, I don't think Lily can do this very well
automatically. The closest I can get is to make the tuplet
brackets transparent and use slurs, as shown below. The
positions of the slurs can be controlled, but this would
require manually tweaking each one.
\score {
\relative c'' {
\clef treble \key as \minor \time 2/4
#(revert-auto-beam-setting '(end * * 2 4) 1 4 'Staff)
\set Staff.beatLength = #(ly:make-moment 1 8)
{ s8 ces r ces }
\\
{
\slurUp
\tupletUp
\override TupletBracket #'transparent = ##t
\override TupletBracket #'staff-padding = #'()
\override TupletBracket #'avoid-slur = #'inside
\times 2/3 { r16( as b) }
\times 2/3 { ces( b as) }
\times 2/3 { r( as b) }
\times 2/3 { ces( b as) }
}
|
{ s8 des[ es des] } \\
{
\slurUp
\override TupletNumber #'stencil = ##f
\times 2/3 { r16( b ces) }
\times 2/3 { des( ces b) }
\times 2/3 { es( des ces) }
\times 2/3 { des( ces b) }
} |
}
}
Trevor
- Original Message -
From: Helge Kruse helge.kruse-nos...@gmx.net
To: lilypond-user@gnu.org
Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 1:47 PM
Subject: Re: Avoiding slur collision with other voice
Forgotten sample file attached...
Helge
Helge Kruse wrote:
Hello,
with help by Trevor I got forward a lot with my scores. Currently
I
still have a little issue with slurs. The original score, that I
want to
mimic, has slurs _above_ the noteheads:
http://dj1na.gmxhome.de/pg-0009.JPG
Lilypond puts the slurs below the beams per default. This can be
confusing with the triplet indication (see attached slur.ly,
measure
two, first two triplets). So I want to place them above the
notedheads
like it's done in the original source.
I am uncertain if these slurs are legato slurs or phrasing slurs.
I
tried them both and did not found an important difference,
probably I am
too unexperienced ;-) Should I use () or \(\) ?
Independent of the kind of slurs I get collisions between the
slurs and
the stems of the other voice. (see attached slur.ly, measure one)
There
are two pages only with such triplets, so I think it's hard to do
this
per slur manually.
Can I tell lilypond to avoid these collisions with other voice?
Regards,
Helge
___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
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\score {
\relative c'' {
\clef treble \key as \minor \time 2/4
#(revert-auto-beam-setting '(end * * 2 4) 1 4 'Staff)
\set Staff.beatLength = #(ly:make-moment 1 8)
{ s8 ces r ces }
\\
{
\slurUp
\phrasingSlurUp
\times 2/3 { r16 as\( b\) }
\times 2/3 { ces( b as) }
\times 2/3 { r as( b) }
\times 2/3 { ces( b as) }
}
|
{ s8 des[ es des] } \\
{ \times 2/3 { r16( b ces) }
\times 2/3 { des( ces b) }
\times 2/3 { es( des ces) }
\times 2/3 { des( ces b) }
} |
}
}
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