Re: Backing track creation with LilyPond

[Graham King]

On 14 Feb 2018, at 14:23, Karlin High wrote:

> http://www.laweekly.com/news/instead-of-being-put-down-these-feral-cats-are-being-put-to-work-8963106
> 
> 
> Cats are a natural rodent deterrent, even if they're not actively hunting. 
> Mice can smell urinary proteins secreted by cats, snakes and other predators.

> 

Snakes.  Hmmm... Now there's a thought.  How about giving up on the cats and 
keeping snakes instead.  They'd keep the mice down, and the 
Bach/accordion/snake-charming videos would be sure-fire hits :)
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Re: Backing track creation with LilyPond

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

Cat discussions never get old...
We’ve 4 cats in our (very big) house; they pee everywhere :(
We had problems with mice and rats while there was only the old tomcat. Then we 
called an exterminator and got three young female cats (who harass the tomcat). 
At least two of them are hunting, one is too stupid... But there are still some 
rodents in the ceiling in the older part of the house.

Greetlings, Hraban
---
fiëé visuëlle
Henning Hraban Ramm
http://www.fiee.net




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Re: Backing track creation with LilyPond

[Hans Åberg]

> On 14 Feb 2018, at 18:01, David Kastrup  wrote:
> 
>> This is for house cats. It may be different for farmer cats.
> 
> Well, there is no reason to keep them from hunting.  Cats are allowed to
> kill and eat mice.  Humans aren't.
> 
> I don't make the rules.

In Africa, rodents are sold grilled on skewers.



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Re: Backing track creation with LilyPond

[David Kastrup]

Hans Åberg  writes:

>> On 14 Feb 2018, at 17:15, David Kastrup  wrote:
>> 
>> Hans Åberg  writes:
>> 
>>> They don't hunt much if properly fed, just some for sport.
>> 
>> There is no such thing as a "properly fed" cat.  Not if you ask the cat.
>
> If you want them to hunt less, give them more food.
>
>> There is also quite a difference in approach: the male cat really starts
>> getting more enthusiastic once its prey is dead and playing football
>> with the corpse for hours until eating it is no longer a viable option.
>> The female one plays until its prey is dead, then gulfs it down.  All of
>> it.  Except possibly the stomach.  Ugh.
>
> Try to give them herring, cut in slices.
>
>> So one can't really generalize regarding the sports approach.
>
> This is for house cats. It may be different for farmer cats.

Well, there is no reason to keep them from hunting.  Cats are allowed to
kill and eat mice.  Humans aren't.

I don't make the rules.

-- 
David Kastrup

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Re: Backing track creation with LilyPond

[Hans Åberg]

> On 14 Feb 2018, at 17:15, David Kastrup  wrote:
> 
> Hans Åberg  writes:
> 
>>> On 14 Feb 2018, at 15:23, Karlin High  wrote:
>>> 
>>> http://www.laweekly.com/news/instead-of-being-put-down-these-feral-cats-are-being-put-to-work-8963106
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Cats are a natural rodent deterrent, even if they're not actively
>>> hunting. Mice can smell urinary proteins secreted by cats, snakes
>>> and other predators. According to a 2010 study at the Scripps
>>> Research Institute, mice don't recognize predators because of
>>> experiences with them but because they have evolved to do so. The
>>> mere scent of the urinary proteins found in cats triggers a fear
>>> response in mice.
>>> 
>>> "It's not like they're even going after the rodents," Sathe says of
>>> the cats. "They're kind of like a sonic force."
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> They don't hunt much if properly fed, just some for sport.
> 
> There is no such thing as a "properly fed" cat.  Not if you ask the cat.

If you want them to hunt less, give them more food.

> There is also quite a difference in approach: the male cat really starts
> getting more enthusiastic once its prey is dead and playing football
> with the corpse for hours until eating it is no longer a viable option.
> The female one plays until its prey is dead, then gulfs it down.  All of
> it.  Except possibly the stomach.  Ugh.

Try to give them herring, cut in slices.

> So one can't really generalize regarding the sports approach.

This is for house cats. It may be different for farmer cats.



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Re: Backing track creation with LilyPond

[David Kastrup]

Hans Åberg  writes:

>> On 14 Feb 2018, at 15:23, Karlin High  wrote:
>> 
>> http://www.laweekly.com/news/instead-of-being-put-down-these-feral-cats-are-being-put-to-work-8963106
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Cats are a natural rodent deterrent, even if they're not actively
>> hunting. Mice can smell urinary proteins secreted by cats, snakes
>> and other predators. According to a 2010 study at the Scripps
>> Research Institute, mice don't recognize predators because of
>> experiences with them but because they have evolved to do so. The
>> mere scent of the urinary proteins found in cats triggers a fear
>> response in mice.
>> 
>> "It's not like they're even going after the rodents," Sathe says of
>> the cats. "They're kind of like a sonic force."
>> 
>> 
>
> They don't hunt much if properly fed, just some for sport.

There is no such thing as a "properly fed" cat.  Not if you ask the cat.
There is also quite a difference in approach: the male cat really starts
getting more enthusiastic once its prey is dead and playing football
with the corpse for hours until eating it is no longer a viable option.
The female one plays until its prey is dead, then gulfs it down.  All of
it.  Except possibly the stomach.  Ugh.

So one can't really generalize regarding the sports approach.

-- 
David Kastrup

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Re: Backing track creation with LilyPond

[David Kastrup]

Karlin High  writes:

> On 2/14/2018 4:34 AM, David Kastrup wrote:
>> The mice were running around openly and rather visibly before that.
>> Already when the cats were confined to one stable cell, the difference
>> was staggering.  When they roamed freely, it was overwhelming.  They
>> couldn't have caught hundreds of mice in that time frame: it's just that
>> the visibility of the rodents dropped by wagonloads.
>
> http://www.laweekly.com/news/instead-of-being-put-down-these-feral-cats-are-being-put-to-work-8963106
>
> 
>
> Cats are a natural rodent deterrent, even if they're not actively
> hunting. Mice can smell urinary proteins secreted by cats, snakes and
> other predators. According to a 2010 study at the Scripps Research
> Institute, mice don't recognize predators because of experiences with
> them but because they have evolved to do so. The mere scent of the
> urinary proteins found in cats triggers a fear response in mice.
>
> "It's not like they're even going after the rodents," Sathe says of
> the cats. "They're kind of like a sonic force."
>
> 

Well, I can attest to that.  Probably wasn't helpful that the previous
cat was house-broken to a degree that it always came back _in_ for its
cat box.  Though once the horrible, horrible kittens were roaming the
premises, he did no longer venture outside at all.

First time the female kitten paraded before the patio door, the big cat
easily three times its size panicked and did a running start like from a
Warner Bro's cartoon with wild sliding on the spot, hitting several
table legs like a pinball game ball, then rushing up the staircase and
ducking down at its top, peeking down trembling.

Pathetic.  The roommate moved in with her boyfriend who has an old
tomcat and several dogs.  Apparently now her cat is dominating over the
whole household and feared by cat and dogs alike.  But at our place, it
was completely hopeless.

-- 
David Kastrup

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Re: Backing track creation with LilyPond

[Hans Åberg]

> On 14 Feb 2018, at 15:23, Karlin High  wrote:
> 
> On 2/14/2018 4:34 AM, David Kastrup wrote:
>> The mice were running around openly and rather visibly before that.
>> Already when the cats were confined to one stable cell, the difference
>> was staggering.  When they roamed freely, it was overwhelming.  They
>> couldn't have caught hundreds of mice in that time frame: it's just that
>> the visibility of the rodents dropped by wagonloads.
> 
> http://www.laweekly.com/news/instead-of-being-put-down-these-feral-cats-are-being-put-to-work-8963106
> 
> 
> 
> Cats are a natural rodent deterrent, even if they're not actively hunting. 
> Mice can smell urinary proteins secreted by cats, snakes and other predators. 
> According to a 2010 study at the Scripps Research Institute, mice don't 
> recognize predators because of experiences with them but because they have 
> evolved to do so. The mere scent of the urinary proteins found in cats 
> triggers a fear response in mice.
> 
> "It's not like they're even going after the rodents," Sathe says of the cats. 
> "They're kind of like a sonic force."
> 
> 

They don't hunt much if properly fed, just some for sport.



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Re: Backing track creation with LilyPond

[Hans Åberg]

> On 14 Feb 2018, at 15:00, David Kastrup  wrote:
> 
> Hans Åberg  writes:
> 
>> On 14 Feb 2018, at 11:34, David Kastrup  wrote:
>> 
>>> The mice were running around openly and rather visibly before that.
>>> Already when the cats were confined to one stable cell, the difference
>>> was staggering.  When they roamed freely, it was overwhelming.  They
>>> couldn't have caught hundreds of mice in that time frame: it's just that
>>> the visibility of the rodents dropped by wagonloads.  And ultimately
>>> likely also their number, probably more because they did not dare come
>>> looking for food than through actual killings.
>> 
>> Perhaps you might check in some mouse trap channel, e.g.
>>  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTx5y_bufwk
> 
> Need to be live traps because of the lady of the house, and constantly
> baiting them and driving the prisoners off to the other side of the
> canal gets old.

You can choose on that channel.

> Also doesn't put much of a dent in the population.  And
> live traps for rats are hopeless.  You capture about three rats per trap
> type.  Then they merrily run around the trap, somehow manage to fish out
> the bait from top or side, or blockade the mechanism with rocks and/or
> debris.  First generation rat poison (in order to at least keep the
> kitchen free from nightly visitors) doesn't faze them all that much.  I
> think we handed more than three packages in our kitchen (at least the
> nightly treat kept them from foraging too much elsewhere) before we gave
> up on that.  Which is ugly because with that stuff at least secondary
> poisoning (namely birds of prey or cats descending on the victims) is
> not much of an issue as the stuff is metabolized within a few days.
> 
> At any rate, it should be clear that I know much more than I'd really
> want to about this issue.  Our cats are at best so-so for rats, but they
> definitely are without much of an alternative concerning the mouse
> density.  We didn't get them lightly, particularly so since cats are
> territorial and we already had the useless cat in the accordion video.

A farmer on the BBC somewhere found cats to be the most effective rodent 
control method, but he had rather a lot, something like this:
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EYZnSXEla0 



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Re: Backing track creation with LilyPond

[Karlin High]

On 2/14/2018 4:34 AM, David Kastrup wrote:

The mice were running around openly and rather visibly before that.
Already when the cats were confined to one stable cell, the difference
was staggering.  When they roamed freely, it was overwhelming.  They
couldn't have caught hundreds of mice in that time frame: it's just that
the visibility of the rodents dropped by wagonloads.


http://www.laweekly.com/news/instead-of-being-put-down-these-feral-cats-are-being-put-to-work-8963106



Cats are a natural rodent deterrent, even if they're not actively 
hunting. Mice can smell urinary proteins secreted by cats, snakes and 
other predators. According to a 2010 study at the Scripps Research 
Institute, mice don't recognize predators because of experiences with 
them but because they have evolved to do so. The mere scent of the 
urinary proteins found in cats triggers a fear response in mice.


"It's not like they're even going after the rodents," Sathe says of the 
cats. "They're kind of like a sonic force."




--
Karlin High
Missouri, USA

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Re: Backing track creation with LilyPond

[David Kastrup]

Hans Åberg  writes:

> On 14 Feb 2018, at 11:34, David Kastrup  wrote:
>
>> The mice were running around openly and rather visibly before that.
>> Already when the cats were confined to one stable cell, the difference
>> was staggering.  When they roamed freely, it was overwhelming.  They
>> couldn't have caught hundreds of mice in that time frame: it's just that
>> the visibility of the rodents dropped by wagonloads.  And ultimately
>> likely also their number, probably more because they did not dare come
>> looking for food than through actual killings.
>
> Perhaps you might check in some mouse trap channel, e.g.
>   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTx5y_bufwk

Need to be live traps because of the lady of the house, and constantly
baiting them and driving the prisoners off to the other side of the
canal gets old.  Also doesn't put much of a dent in the population.  And
live traps for rats are hopeless.  You capture about three rats per trap
type.  Then they merrily run around the trap, somehow manage to fish out
the bait from top or side, or blockade the mechanism with rocks and/or
debris.  First generation rat poison (in order to at least keep the
kitchen free from nightly visitors) doesn't faze them all that much.  I
think we handed more than three packages in our kitchen (at least the
nightly treat kept them from foraging too much elsewhere) before we gave
up on that.  Which is ugly because with that stuff at least secondary
poisoning (namely birds of prey or cats descending on the victims) is
not much of an issue as the stuff is metabolized within a few days.

At any rate, it should be clear that I know much more than I'd really
want to about this issue.  Our cats are at best so-so for rats, but they
definitely are without much of an alternative concerning the mouse
density.  We didn't get them lightly, particularly so since cats are
territorial and we already had the useless cat in the accordion video.

-- 
David Kastrup

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Re: Backing track creation with LilyPond

[Hans Åberg]

> On 14 Feb 2018, at 11:34, David Kastrup  wrote:
> 
> Hans Åberg  writes:
> 
>> Cats are very effective in that; Alexander Selkirk couldn't sleep,
>> tormented by rodents, until he befriended some cats left on the island
>> he was.
> 
> I can imagine.  We got the two cats on duty (the one on the video never
> dared move more than 2m from the house and thus was no help)

They are normally taught by their mom, so one might try to get kittens from 
farmers.

> when they
> were about three or four months old I think.  They were locked in one
> stable cell for a few days, and then overnight for a few days longer.

Maybe a cat house, like this one:
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdaSKngA5tU

> The mice were running around openly and rather visibly before that.
> Already when the cats were confined to one stable cell, the difference
> was staggering.  When they roamed freely, it was overwhelming.  They
> couldn't have caught hundreds of mice in that time frame: it's just that
> the visibility of the rodents dropped by wagonloads.  And ultimately
> likely also their number, probably more because they did not dare come
> looking for food than through actual killings.

Perhaps you might check in some mouse trap channel, e.g.
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTx5y_bufwk

>>> I tried keeping the door to the recording room closed, but then it
>>> would scratch at the door and make more of a ruckus than when it
>>> could just wander in and see there was nothing to be had.
>> 
>> You might extract a clip "Cat photobombs Air" in a suitable category
>> so see if it gets viral. :-)
> 
> Look, I'm glad that I manage dozens of views for some of the music
> videos I create, some even with more "Like" than "Dislike" ratings (in
> the rare case that ratings are given at all).  I don't want to find out
> that videos like  would be much more
> popular.

The suggestions system seems to be linked with what gets ad revenues: views of 
specialized music seems to give no further hits, while a partial view of some 
pop stuff gets a lot.



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Re: Backing track creation with LilyPond

[David Kastrup]

Hans Åberg  writes:

>> On 14 Feb 2018, at 10:17, David Kastrup  wrote:
>> 
>> Hans Åberg  writes:
>> 
 On 13 Feb 2018, at 21:04, David Kastrup  wrote:
 
 I did a Bach Air from Orchestra Suite #3 version where I
 dubbed the omitted viola voice in  but
 it's really not all too great.
>>> 
>>> The cat is great, even giving an audience response after the
>>> performance.
>> 
>> It turns out that with setting up all the recording stuff I'd usually
>> end up around feeding time of this cat (the roommate it belongs to
>> has moved out by now, and the cats we now have for sake of pest
>> control have regular working hours during which they are not to enter
>> the house).
>
> Cats are very effective in that; Alexander Selkirk couldn't sleep,
> tormented by rodents, until he befriended some cats left on the island
> he was.

I can imagine.  We got the two cats on duty (the one on the video never
dared move more than 2m from the house and thus was no help) when they
were about three or four months old I think.  They were locked in one
stable cell for a few days, and then overnight for a few days longer.
The mice were running around openly and rather visibly before that.
Already when the cats were confined to one stable cell, the difference
was staggering.  When they roamed freely, it was overwhelming.  They
couldn't have caught hundreds of mice in that time frame: it's just that
the visibility of the rodents dropped by wagonloads.  And ultimately
likely also their number, probably more because they did not dare come
looking for food than through actual killings.

>> I tried keeping the door to the recording room closed, but then it
>> would scratch at the door and make more of a ruckus than when it
>> could just wander in and see there was nothing to be had.
>
> You might extract a clip "Cat photobombs Air" in a suitable category
> so see if it gets viral. :-)

Look, I'm glad that I manage dozens of views for some of the music
videos I create, some even with more "Like" than "Dislike" ratings (in
the rare case that ratings are given at all).  I don't want to find out
that videos like  would be much more
popular.

-- 
David Kastrup

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Re: Backing track creation with LilyPond

[Hans Åberg]

> On 14 Feb 2018, at 10:17, David Kastrup  wrote:
> 
> Hans Åberg  writes:
> 
>>> On 13 Feb 2018, at 21:04, David Kastrup  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I did a Bach Air from Orchestra Suite #3 version where I
>>> dubbed the omitted viola voice in  but
>>> it's really not all too great.
>> 
>> The cat is great, even giving an audience response after the
>> performance.
> 
> It turns out that with setting up all the recording stuff I'd usually
> end up around feeding time of this cat (the roommate it belongs to has
> moved out by now, and the cats we now have for sake of pest control have
> regular working hours during which they are not to enter the house).

Cats are very effective in that; Alexander Selkirk couldn't sleep, tormented by 
rodents, until he befriended some cats left on the island he was.

> I tried keeping the door to the recording room closed, but then it would
> scratch at the door and make more of a ruckus than when it could just
> wander in and see there was nothing to be had.

You might extract a clip "Cat photobombs Air" in a suitable category so see if 
it gets viral. :-)

> Frankly, given the faces I make on those kind of recordings, the
> distraction is probably an improvement.

It's like on shows like AGT when they buzz to see how professional the 
performers are.


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Re: Backing track creation with LilyPond

[David Kastrup]

Hans Åberg  writes:

>> On 13 Feb 2018, at 21:04, David Kastrup  wrote:
>> 
>> I did a Bach Air from Orchestra Suite #3 version where I
>> dubbed the omitted viola voice in  but
>> it's really not all too great.
>
> The cat is great, even giving an audience response after the
> performance.

It turns out that with setting up all the recording stuff I'd usually
end up around feeding time of this cat (the roommate it belongs to has
moved out by now, and the cats we now have for sake of pest control have
regular working hours during which they are not to enter the house).

I tried keeping the door to the recording room closed, but then it would
scratch at the door and make more of a ruckus than when it could just
wander in and see there was nothing to be had.

Frankly, given the faces I make on those kind of recordings, the
distraction is probably an improvement.

-- 
David Kastrup

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Re: Backing track creation with LilyPond

[Hans Åberg]

> On 13 Feb 2018, at 21:04, David Kastrup  wrote:
> 
> I did a Bach Air from Orchestra Suite #3 version where I
> dubbed the omitted viola voice in  but
> it's really not all too great.

The cat is great, even giving an audience response after the performance.



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Re: Backing track creation with LilyPond

[David Kastrup]

Karlin High  writes:

> On 2/13/2018 2:04 PM, David Kastrup wrote:
>> So I decided maybe sing this time.  I am out of training (obviously) but
>> by plastering reverb in and using LilyPond for creating the backing
>> track, I got something annoyingly useful at first pitch.
>
> Is that you singing on both those tracks, David?

Well, the telltale final "s" should give it away.  Too similar to be
coincidence.

> Impressive voice range! I remember reading that the stroke had
> bothered higher ranges, so either you've made some good recovery or
> had something astounding before that.

Oh come on.  I sound like a strangled duck in the high range, and the
high range is not even high (my previous voice type had been alto, and
it was durable enough to do the choir alto in all 6 parts of the Bach
Christmas Oratory in one performance at modern pitch).  But a few weeks
of vocal exercise should get that under control for the purpose of this
talk.

I had a partial paresis of the left vocal cord which is mostly under
control.  What was affected then was durability of the voice more than
range.  But when I start coughing for some reason, it's basically game
over: I'm very bad at actually clearing stuff out from the throat.
Swallowing and throat clearing is still an incomplete job and I'd better
not eat something in proximity to having to talk or sing.

-- 
David Kastrup

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Re: Backing track creation with LilyPond

[David Kastrup]

"Christopher R. Maden"  writes:

> On 02/13/2018 03:04 PM, David Kastrup wrote:
>> So I decided maybe sing this time.  I am out of training (obviously) but
>> by plastering reverb in and using LilyPond for creating the backing
>> track, I got something annoyingly useful at first pitch.  Now I just
>> need to figure out how to do a proper count-in, and I think I can do the
>> talk with that piece.  The take itself is short, so I should have plenty
>> of time messing up.  And I need to work on my voice the next few weeks.
>>
>> So basically that is a "production with Ardour under Linux might be
>> worth bothering with" pitch.
>
> That’s excellent, David!
>
> There are a couple of ways to do the count-in... I’ve made MIDI files
> in LilyPond that have a wood-block percussion on every beat, starting
> a couple of bars before everything else.  You can open a multi-track
> MIDI in Ardour, I believe.  It makes a good guide for multi-track
> vocals, too, to keep everything in tune.  You can also make a click
> track in Ardour itself, which may turn out to be easier, though it can
> be harder to line up the MIDI with it, depending on how it all works
> out.

I think lining up the Midi should be no problem at all.  In fact, Ardour
lined up the Midi quite thoroughly when I first imported it, warping it
to 120 bpm (its apparent default).  That was surprising.  Changing
Ardour's speed immediately adapted the Midi as well.

I think I might try adding a count-in and perhaps something giving the
pitch in Ardour: that makes the task independent from LilyPond as the
producer of the Midi.

At any rate, taking one reasonably portable audio interface (in my case,
the "Satellite" portion of a Mackie Onyx Satellite) and the mics (of
which I can use one without a stand) and the required cables and power
adapters, and I should be set.  Well, and a small speaker.  And
headphones.

Still, should weigh less than the usual accordion.

-- 
David Kastrup

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Re: Backing track creation with LilyPond

[Karlin High]

On 2/13/2018 2:04 PM, David Kastrup wrote:

So I decided maybe sing this time.  I am out of training (obviously) but
by plastering reverb in and using LilyPond for creating the backing
track, I got something annoyingly useful at first pitch.


Is that you singing on both those tracks, David? Impressive voice range! 
I remember reading that the stroke had bothered higher ranges, so either 
you've made some good recovery or had something astounding before that.

--
Karlin High
Missouri, USA

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Re: Backing track creation with LilyPond

[Christopher R. Maden]

On 02/13/2018 03:04 PM, David Kastrup wrote:

So I decided maybe sing this time.  I am out of training (obviously) but
by plastering reverb in and using LilyPond for creating the backing
track, I got something annoyingly useful at first pitch.  Now I just
need to figure out how to do a proper count-in, and I think I can do the
talk with that piece.  The take itself is short, so I should have plenty
of time messing up.  And I need to work on my voice the next few weeks.

So basically that is a "production with Ardour under Linux might be 
worth bothering with" pitch.


That’s excellent, David!

There are a couple of ways to do the count-in... I’ve made MIDI files in 
LilyPond that have a wood-block percussion on every beat, starting a 
couple of bars before everything else.  You can open a multi-track MIDI 
in Ardour, I believe.  It makes a good guide for multi-track vocals, 
too, to keep everything in tune.  You can also make a click track in 
Ardour itself, which may turn out to be easier, though it can be harder 
to line up the MIDI with it, depending on how it all works out.


~Chris
--
Chris Maden, text nerd
http://crism.maden.org/ >
Emperor Norton had the right idea.

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Backing track creation with LilyPond

[David Kastrup]

Hi,

I am going to have a talk about Ardour multitrack recording in Chemnitz
 on the 10th of March.  My previous
demonstrations all were using an accordion but since an accordion is
really a full solo instrument, it's actually not that great for demoing
multitracking (I did a Bach Air from Orchestra Suite #3 version where I
dubbed the omitted viola voice in  but
it's really not all too great.  At least I discovered that I had been
omitting half a measure before the last repeat: dubbing _that_ was
tricky).

So I decided maybe sing this time.  I am out of training (obviously) but
by plastering reverb in and using LilyPond for creating the backing
track, I got something annoyingly useful at first pitch.  Now I just
need to figure out how to do a proper count-in, and I think I can do the
talk with that piece.  The take itself is short, so I should have plenty
of time messing up.  And I need to work on my voice the next few weeks.

So basically that is a "production with Ardour under Linux might be
worth bothering with" pitch.

Here goes the screen cast: 

I'll have to see whether I manage screencasting of my talk as well: it's
a bit of a stretch since obviously it gobbles up processing power and
disk space.

-- 
David Kastrup

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