Re: LilyPond logo?

[Sven Axelsson]

On 8 August 2016 at 09:43, Dona Mommsen-Ghosh  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> please allow me to share my 2 cents…
>  I'm an occasional user of LilyPond, and I think a Logo is a great thing
> in terms of recognition. However, I fear that Frescobaldi beat you to it.
> Since I don’t use Lilypond regularly, Frescobaldi fully serves my purpose
> and it’s thanks to Lilypond that the result looks great.
>
> Frescobaldi already uses a waterlily as icon for the application (see tiny
> screenshot from my computer). For me, Frescobaldi has become a synonym to
> Lilypond. To all Lilypond experts who are ready to type a detailed
> explanation of the distinction — hold it, I’m aware of that. It’s just that
> from a practical viewpoint, I don’t longer need to work with Lilypond with
> emacs and command line and I know that there is also a Lilypond application
> for Mac… However, Frescobaldi has become THE Lilypond application for me.
>
> Now, what has all this rambling to do with the Logo? Like it or not, the
> logo is already there — with Frescobaldi. IMHO and from a marketing
> perspective, adding a second logo only adds confusion, not a clearer
> branding.
>
> Those who argue that the and the icon should somehow be related to sheet
> music: I don’t think that this is really necessary, because Lilypond has
> already established a certain brand image and reputation. The
> circumstantial evidence is that the waterlily is recognized even by an
> occasional user. Otherwise, it wouldn’t work to call an application
> “Frescobaldi” and then use a waterlily as icon for the app.
>
> If there is a need for a logo for Lilypond and you don’t like the one from
> Frescobaldi, the community should at least work together with the makers of
> Frescobaldi to find a common, new logo. Please, please don’t create two
> different ones.
>
> Best,
>
> Dona
>
>

Well, that icon is the same that is already in use on the Lilypond web site
- albeit with different colours. But a logo is not the same as an icon, so
the discussion is still relevant.

All the best,
Sven Axelsson

[image: Inline images 1]
-- 
Sven Axelsson
++[>++>+++>++>++
><-]>.+..>+.>+.<<-.>>+.>.<<.
+++.>-.<<++.>>.<++.>>>++..>>.<.
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Re: LilyPond logo?

[Dona Mommsen-Ghosh]

Hi,

please allow me to share my 2 cents…
 I'm an occasional user of LilyPond, and I think a Logo is a great thing in 
terms of recognition. However, I fear that Frescobaldi beat you to it. Since I 
don’t use Lilypond regularly, Frescobaldi fully serves my purpose and it’s 
thanks to Lilypond that the result looks great.

Frescobaldi already uses a waterlily as icon for the application (see tiny 
screenshot from my computer). For me, Frescobaldi has become a synonym to 
Lilypond. To all Lilypond experts who are ready to type a detailed explanation 
of the distinction — hold it, I’m aware of that. It’s just that from a 
practical viewpoint, I don’t longer need to work with Lilypond with emacs and 
command line and I know that there is also a Lilypond application for Mac… 
However, Frescobaldi has become THE Lilypond application for me.

Now, what has all this rambling to do with the Logo? Like it or not, the logo 
is already there — with Frescobaldi. IMHO and from a marketing perspective, 
adding a second logo only adds confusion, not a clearer branding.

Those who argue that the and the icon should somehow be related to sheet music: 
I don’t think that this is really necessary, because Lilypond has already 
established a certain brand image and reputation. The circumstantial evidence 
is that the waterlily is recognized even by an occasional user. Otherwise, it 
wouldn’t work to call an application “Frescobaldi” and then use a waterlily as 
icon for the app.

If there is a need for a logo for Lilypond and you don’t like the one from 
Frescobaldi, the community should at least work together with the makers of 
Frescobaldi to find a common, new logo. Please, please don’t create two 
different ones.

Best,

Dona


> On Aug 7, 2016, at 9:44 PM, Simon Albrecht <simon.albre...@mail.de> wrote:
> 
> Actually I like No. 10 best for its simplicity, elegance and recognition 
> value.
> But as I said before: I don't think this quite unordered process fit for 
> creating and selecting a logo. In the end, those who cry out loudest might 
> have their will, while there has been no agreement even on how the selection 
> should be done. Or do I have too little faith in crowd intelligence and the 
> aesthetic reckoning of everybody who likes working with Lilypond?
>  
> Best, Simon
> 
> 
> Am 07-Aug-2016 17:11:44 +0200 schrieb carsonm...@ca.rr.com 
> <mailto:carsonm...@ca.rr.com>:
> 
> Pierre:
> 
>  
>  
>  
> Nix 4, 5, 10, and 11.
> 
>  
>  
>  
> Thank you
> 
>  
>  
>  
> Mark
> 
>  
>  
>  
> From: lilypond-user 
> [mailto:lilypond-user-bounces+carsonmark=ca.rr@gnu.org 
> <mailto:lilypond-user-bounces+carsonmark=ca.rr@gnu.org>] On Behalf Of 
> Pierre Perol-Schneider
> Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2016 5:14 AM
> To: Noeck <noeck.marb...@gmx.de <mailto:noeck.marb...@gmx.de>>
> Cc: lilypond-user <lilypond-user@gnu.org <mailto:lilypond-user@gnu.org>>
> Subject: Re: LilyPond logo?
> 
>  
>  
>  
> pdf
> 
>  
>  
>  
> 2016-08-07 14:13 GMT+02:00 Pierre Perol-Schneider 
> <pierre.schneider.pa...@gmail.com <mailto:pierre.schneider.pa...@gmail.com>>:
> 
>  
> Updates.
> 
>  
> Please select the ones that should be deleted.
> 
>  
> Cheers
> 
>  
> Pierre
> 
>  
>  
>  
> 2016-08-07 9:34 GMT+02:00 Noeck <noeck.marb...@gmx.de 
> <mailto:noeck.marb...@gmx.de>>:
> 
>  
> Hi,
> 
> > I was never clear on how the LilyPond name was chosen. Note heads for
> > the pads, and note stems for flowers, maybe.
> 
> It's a little bit different (in short: women):
> 
> http://lilypond.org/~janneke/vc/newweb/out/site/about/name 
> <http://lilypond.org/~janneke/vc/newweb/out/site/about/name>
> 
> Cheers,
> Joram
> 
>  
> 
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Re: LilyPond logo?

[Wols Lists]

On 07/08/16 20:44, Simon Albrecht wrote:
> Or do I have too little faith in crowd intelligence and the aesthetic
> reckoning of everybody who likes working with Lilypond?

I think you might. It's amazing how everybody seems to be targetting in
on just a few possibilities - which are all very similar!

I think our choices are limited by what is practical, and the chances
are everyone here is fairly similar - the combination of music and maths
is a pairing that seems to go together but it probably applies to pretty
much everyone here. And I would think that pairing would shape our
personalities very much in the same way.

Cheers,
Wol

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Re: LilyPond logo?

[Simon Albrecht]

Actually I like No. 10 best for its simplicity, elegance and recognition value. 
But as I said before: I don't think this quite unordered process fit for 
creating and selecting a logo. In the end, those who cry out loudest might have 
their will, while there has been no agreement even on how the selection should 
be done. Or do I have too little faith in crowd intelligence and the aesthetic 
reckoning of everybody who likes working with Lilypond?
   Best, Simon 

 Am 07-Aug-2016 17:11:44 +0200 schrieb carsonm...@ca.rr.com: 

Pierre: 

Nix 4, 5, 10, and 11. 

Thank you 

Mark 

FROM: lilypond-user [mailto:lilypond-user-bounces+carsonmark=ca.rr@gnu.org] 
ON BEHALF OF Pierre Perol-Schneider
SENT: Sunday, August 07, 2016 5:14 AM
TO: Noeck 
CC: lilypond-user 
SUBJECT: Re: LilyPond logo? 

pdf 

2016-08-07 14:13 GMT+02:00 Pierre Perol-Schneider : 

Updates. 

Please select the ones that should be deleted. 

Cheers 

Pierre 

2016-08-07 9:34 GMT+02:00 Noeck : 

Hi,

> I was never clear on how the LilyPond name was chosen. Note heads for
> the pads, and note stems for flowers, maybe.

It's a little bit different (in short: women):

http://lilypond.org/~janneke/vc/newweb/out/site/about/name

Cheers,
Joram 

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Re: LilyPond logo?

[Wols Lists]

On 06/08/16 19:38, Pierre Perol-Schneider wrote:
> Tests update attached.
> 
I'm still a fan of 6 or 9. But 9 feels better because it's simpler.

Cheers,
Wol


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Re: LilyPond logo?

[Wols Lists]

On 07/08/16 16:17, Kieren MacMillan wrote:
> Hello all,
> 
> What about a perspective-sheared bass clef as the leaf?
> Just a thought, trying to tie it all together.
> 
+1

Cheers,
Wol


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Re: LilyPond logo?

[Kieren MacMillan]

Hello all,

What about a perspective-sheared bass clef as the leaf?
Just a thought, trying to tie it all together.

Cheers,
Kieren.


Kieren MacMillan, composer
‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info
‣ email: i...@kierenmacmillan.info


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RE: LilyPond logo?

[Mark Stephen Mrotek]

Pierre:

 

Nix 4, 5, 10, and 11.

 

Thank you

 

Mark

 

From: lilypond-user [mailto:lilypond-user-bounces+carsonmark=ca.rr@gnu.org] 
On Behalf Of Pierre Perol-Schneider
Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2016 5:14 AM
To: Noeck <noeck.marb...@gmx.de>
Cc: lilypond-user <lilypond-user@gnu.org>
Subject: Re: LilyPond logo?

 

pdf

 

2016-08-07 14:13 GMT+02:00 Pierre Perol-Schneider 
<pierre.schneider.pa...@gmail.com <mailto:pierre.schneider.pa...@gmail.com> >:

Updates.

Please select the ones that should be deleted.

Cheers

Pierre

 

2016-08-07 9:34 GMT+02:00 Noeck <noeck.marb...@gmx.de 
<mailto:noeck.marb...@gmx.de> >:

Hi,

> I was never clear on how the LilyPond name was chosen. Note heads for
> the pads, and note stems for flowers, maybe.

It's a little bit different (in short: women):

http://lilypond.org/~janneke/vc/newweb/out/site/about/name

Cheers,
Joram


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Re: LilyPond logo?

[Pierre Perol-Schneider]

Updates.
Please select the ones that should be deleted.
Cheers
Pierre

2016-08-07 9:34 GMT+02:00 Noeck :

> Hi,
>
> > I was never clear on how the LilyPond name was chosen. Note heads for
> > the pads, and note stems for flowers, maybe.
>
> It's a little bit different (in short: women):
>
> http://lilypond.org/~janneke/vc/newweb/out/site/about/name
>
> Cheers,
> Joram
>
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logos.ily
Description: Binary data
\version "2.19.46"
\include "logos.ily"

%% Syntax is \markup\logoX #size
%% Test:
\markup
%\with-color #darkcyan
\fill-line {
  \override #'(baseline-skip . 10)
  \center-column { 
\vspace #2
%\line { \with-color #red \bold "1. " "Music engraving by" \logoMalte #1 "LilyPond 2.19.46—www.lilypond.org" }
%\line { \with-color #red \bold "2. " "Music engraving by" \logoMalteThree #1 "LilyPond 2.19.46—www.lilypond.org" }
%\italic "Alternate with more space between leaves:" \vspace #-2 
%\line { \with-color #red \bold "3. " "Music engraving by" \logoMalteThreeAlter #1 "LilyPond 2.19.46—www.lilypond.org" }  
\line { \with-color #red \bold "4. " "Music engraving by" \logoSamuel #2 "LilyPond 2.19.46—www.lilypond.org" }
\line { \with-color #red \bold "5. " "Music engraving by" \logoMalteFive #1 "LilyPond 2.19.46—www.lilypond.org" }
\line { \with-color #red \bold "6. " "Music engraving by" \logoPierre #1 "LilyPond 2.19.46—www.lilypond.org" }
%\line { \with-color #red \bold "7. " "Music engraving by" \logoPierreAlt #1 "LilyPond 2.19.46—www.lilypond.org" }
%\line { \with-color #red \bold "8. " "Music engraving by" \logoMalteSix #1 "LilyPond 2.19.46—www.lilypond.org" }
\line { \with-color #red \bold "9. " "Music engraving by" \logoPierreTwo #1 "LilyPond 2.19.46—www.lilypond.org" }
\line { \with-color #red \bold "10. " "Music engraving by" \logoPierreThree #1 "LilyPond 2.19.46—www.lilypond.org" }
\line { \with-color #red \bold "11. " "Music engraving by" \logoPierreFour #1 "LilyPond 2.19.46—www.lilypond.org" }
\line { \with-color #red \bold "12. " "Music engraving by" \logoMalteSeven #1 "LilyPond 2.19.46—www.lilypond.org" }
\line { \with-color #red \bold "13. " "Music engraving by" \logoPierreFive #1 "2.19.46—www.lilypond.org" }
\line { \with-color #red \bold "14. " "Music engraving by" \combine \concat { \hspace #0.5 \musicglyph #"clefs.G" } \raise #0.4 \override #'(thickness . 2.4) \override #'(style . outline) \whiteout \logoMalteSeven #0.5 "LilyPond 2.19.46—www.lilypond.org" }
   \line { \with-color #red \bold "15. " "Music engraving by" \logoPierreSeven #1 "LilyPond 2.19.46—www.lilypond.org" }
  }
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Re: LilyPond logo?

[Noeck]

Hi,

> I was never clear on how the LilyPond name was chosen. Note heads for 
> the pads, and note stems for flowers, maybe.

It's a little bit different (in short: women):

http://lilypond.org/~janneke/vc/newweb/out/site/about/name

Cheers,
Joram

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Re: LilyPond logo?

[Karlin High]

On 8/6/2016 11:31 AM, Noeck wrote:
> Am 06.08.2016 um 18:25 schrieb Graham Percival:
>> Why the emphasis on water flowers in the logo?  The important part
>> of LilyPond is the beautifully-engraved sheet music, not botany.
>>
>> I think it would be a nicer approach to having something
>> recognizably "sheet music" in the logo.
> +1

I was never clear on how the LilyPond name was chosen. Note heads for 
the pads, and note stems for flowers, maybe.
--
Karlin High
Missouri, USA

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RE: LilyPond logo?

[Mark Stephen Mrotek]

Pierre,

 

#6

 

Thank you.

 

Mark

 

From: lilypond-user [mailto:lilypond-user-bounces+carsonmark=ca.rr@gnu.org] 
On Behalf Of Pierre Perol-Schneider
Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2016 1:36 PM
To: Malte Meyn <lilyp...@maltemeyn.de>
Cc: lilypond-user <lilypond-user@gnu.org>
Subject: Re: LilyPond logo?

 

Tests update enclosed.

Cheers,

Pierre

 

2016-08-06 21:06 GMT+02:00 Malte Meyn <lilyp...@maltemeyn.de 
<mailto:lilyp...@maltemeyn.de> >:



Am 06.08.2016 um 17:51 schrieb Malte Meyn:

- #8 of course would need a pad to recognise it as a water lily rather
than a generic flower; this was just a test to demonstrate a more
realistic (?) positioning of petals, not a complete logo. Maybe I’ll try
to add a pad.


Here is an attempt to use this petal positioning in a logo. I’m not 100% happy 
about the center of the flower and I’m not sure how many petals one should use 
… but this probably depends largely on the petal shape. I think I didn’t find 
an optimal shape yet; maybe one also has to cheat a little bit and differ 1 
degree or so from the golden angle to get better results.

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Re: LilyPond logo?

[Malte Meyn]

\line { \with-color #red \bold "14. " "Music engraving by" \combine 
\concat { \hspace #0.5 \musicglyph #"clefs.G" } \raise #0.4 \override 
#'(thickness . 2.4) \override #'(style . outline) \whiteout 
\logoMalteSeven #0.5 "LilyPond 2.19.46—www.lilypond.org" }


Ok, I should go to bed, probably this looks silly tomorrow ...

Am 06.08.2016 um 23:00 schrieb Pierre Perol-Schneider:

Or even:


\version "2.19.46"

lilypond = \markup\concat {
  "Lily" \hspace #-.6
  \raise #.5 \rotate #170
  \fontsize #-4 \musicglyph #"clefs.G"
  \hspace #-.5 "ond"
}

\markup { \with-color #red \bold "13. " "Music engraving by" \lilypond "
2.19.46—www.lilypond.org " }


2016-08-06 22:35 GMT+02:00 Pierre Perol-Schneider <
pierre.schneider.pa...@gmail.com>:


Tests update enclosed.

Cheers,
Pierre

2016-08-06 21:06 GMT+02:00 Malte Meyn :




Am 06.08.2016 um 17:51 schrieb Malte Meyn:


- #8 of course would need a pad to recognise it as a water lily rather
than a generic flower; this was just a test to demonstrate a more
realistic (?) positioning of petals, not a complete logo. Maybe I’ll try
to add a pad.



Here is an attempt to use this petal positioning in a logo. I’m not 100%
happy about the center of the flower and I’m not sure how many petals one
should use … but this probably depends largely on the petal shape. I think
I didn’t find an optimal shape yet; maybe one also has to cheat a little
bit and differ 1 degree or so from the golden angle to get better results.

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Re: LilyPond logo?

[Pierre Perol-Schneider]

Or even:


\version "2.19.46"

lilypond = \markup\concat {
  "Lily" \hspace #-.6
  \raise #.5 \rotate #170
  \fontsize #-4 \musicglyph #"clefs.G"
  \hspace #-.5 "ond"
}

\markup { \with-color #red \bold "13. " "Music engraving by" \lilypond "
2.19.46—www.lilypond.org " }


2016-08-06 22:35 GMT+02:00 Pierre Perol-Schneider <
pierre.schneider.pa...@gmail.com>:

> Tests update enclosed.
>
> Cheers,
> Pierre
>
> 2016-08-06 21:06 GMT+02:00 Malte Meyn :
>
>>
>>
>> Am 06.08.2016 um 17:51 schrieb Malte Meyn:
>>
>>> - #8 of course would need a pad to recognise it as a water lily rather
>>> than a generic flower; this was just a test to demonstrate a more
>>> realistic (?) positioning of petals, not a complete logo. Maybe I’ll try
>>> to add a pad.
>>>
>>
>> Here is an attempt to use this petal positioning in a logo. I’m not 100%
>> happy about the center of the flower and I’m not sure how many petals one
>> should use … but this probably depends largely on the petal shape. I think
>> I didn’t find an optimal shape yet; maybe one also has to cheat a little
>> bit and differ 1 degree or so from the golden angle to get better results.
>>
>> ___
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>> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
>>
>>
>
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Re: LilyPond logo?

[Malte Meyn]

Am 06.08.2016 um 17:51 schrieb Malte Meyn:

- #8 of course would need a pad to recognise it as a water lily rather
than a generic flower; this was just a test to demonstrate a more
realistic (?) positioning of petals, not a complete logo. Maybe I’ll try
to add a pad.


Here is an attempt to use this petal positioning in a logo. I’m not 100% 
happy about the center of the flower and I’m not sure how many petals 
one should use … but this probably depends largely on the petal shape. I 
think I didn’t find an optimal shape yet; maybe one also has to cheat a 
little bit and differ 1 degree or so from the golden angle to get better 
results.
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Re: LilyPond logo?

[Pierre Perol-Schneider]

Tests update attached.

Cheers,
Pierre

2016-08-06 19:20 GMT+02:00 Blöchl Bernhard 
:

> I recommend a simple solution:
> Do not use it!
>
> Am 06.08.2016 18:25, schrieb Graham Percival:
>
>> Why the emphasis on water flowers in the logo?  The important part
>> of LilyPond is the beautifully-engraved sheet music, not botany.
>>
>>
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logos.ily
Description: Binary data
\version "2.19.46"
\include "logos.ily"

%% Syntax is \markup\logoX #size
%% Test:
\markup
%\with-color #red
\fill-line {
  \override #'(baseline-skip . 10)
  \center-column { 
\vspace #2
%\line { \with-color #red \bold "1. " "Music engraving by" \logoMalte #1 "LilyPond 2.19.46—www.lilypond.org" }
%\line { \with-color #red \bold "2. " "Music engraving by" \logoMalteThree #1 "LilyPond 2.19.46—www.lilypond.org" }
%\italic "Alternate with more space between leaves:" \vspace #-2 
%\line { \with-color #red \bold "3. " "Music engraving by" \logoMalteThreeAlter #1 "LilyPond 2.19.46—www.lilypond.org" }  
\line { \with-color #red \bold "4. " "Music engraving by" \logoSamuel #2 "LilyPond 2.19.46—www.lilypond.org" }
\line { \with-color #red \bold "5. " "Music engraving by" \logoMalteFive #1 "LilyPond 2.19.46—www.lilypond.org" }
\line { \with-color #red \bold "6. " "Music engraving by" \logoPierre #1 "LilyPond 2.19.46—www.lilypond.org" }
%\line { \with-color #red \bold "7. " "Music engraving by" \logoPierreAlt #1 "LilyPond 2.19.46—www.lilypond.org" }
%\line { \with-color #red \bold "8. " "Music engraving by" \logoMalteSix #1 "LilyPond 2.19.46—www.lilypond.org" }
\line { \with-color #red \bold "9. " "Music engraving by" \logoPierreTwo #1 "LilyPond 2.19.46—www.lilypond.org" }
\line { \with-color #red \bold "10. " "Music engraving by" \logoPierreThree #1 "LilyPond 2.19.46—www.lilypond.org" }
\line { \with-color #red \bold "11. " "Music engraving by" \logoPierreFour #1 "LilyPond 2.19.46—www.lilypond.org" }
  }
}

test-logo.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document
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Re: LilyPond logo?

[Blöchl Bernhard]

I recommend a simple solution:
Do not use it!

Am 06.08.2016 18:25, schrieb Graham Percival:

Why the emphasis on water flowers in the logo?  The important part
of LilyPond is the beautifully-engraved sheet music, not botany.



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Re: LilyPond logo?

[Pierre Perol-Schneider]

Hi All,

@ Johan: I fully agree. Done.

@ Malte: OK copied.

@ Simon: Yes I had the same feeling but I'm stuck there, still trying to
find something much better.

@ Graham: Ok, good idea but I not fully agree with the 'botany' reason (any
direct link between an apple and a computer ?)

Tests attached.

Cheers,
Pierre

2016-08-06 18:25 GMT+02:00 Graham Percival :

> Why the emphasis on water flowers in the logo?  The important part
> of LilyPond is the beautifully-engraved sheet music, not botany.
>
> I think it would be a nicer approach to having something
> recognizably "sheet music" in the logo.  For example, simply "Lp",
> with the "p" being in the normal dynamic font, and the "L" being
> some kind of fancy cursive thing.  That way, musicians would
> instantly recognize the logo as having to do with sheet music.
>
> On a related note, I highly recommend potrace, which does a
> beautiful job of changing bitmaps into vector graphics.  To my
> untrained eye, the output looks to be professionally drawn (due to
> the gradual changes in line width):
> http://potrace.sourceforge.net/samples.html
>
>
> I also think it would be interesting to play with lilypond's text
> markup commands.  There's a lot of neat things that can be done
> with alignment, rotation, and the graphical text markup -- and
> again, if the logo is comprised of elements of musical notation,
> it will be much more recognizable as a logo for something to do
> with sheet music.
>
> Cheers,
> - Graham Percival
>
> On Sat, Aug 06, 2016 at 05:11:26PM +0200, Pierre Perol-Schneider wrote:
> >Plus pdf
> >
> >2016-08-06 17:10 GMT+02:00 Pierre Perol-Schneider
> ><[1]pierre.schneider.pa...@gmail.com>:
> >
> >Logo test enclosed.
> >Cheers,
> >Pierre
> >
> >2016-08-06 15:32 GMT+02:00 Carl Sorensen <[2]c_soren...@byu.edu>:
> >
> >  On 8/5/16 11:28 AM, "Simon Albrecht" <[3]simon.albre...@mail.de>
> >  wrote:
> >  >Am 05.08.2016 um 15:50 schrieb Mark Knoop:
> >  > > At 14:40 on 05 Aug 2016, Phil Holmes wrote:
> >  > >> - Original Message -
> >  > >> From: Andrew Bernard
> >  > >>> I also note that there does not seem to be consistency as to
> >  whether
> >  > >>> lilypond is
> >  > >>> ŒLilypond¹ or ŒLilyPond¹ or ŒLily Pond¹ or Œlilypond¹. That at
> >  least
> >  > >>> needs to be straightened out.
> >  > >> LilyPond. Check the front page of the website.
> >  > > $ git grep LilyPond Documentation/ | wc -l
> >  > > 11154
> >  > > $ git grep Lilypond Documentation/ | wc -l
> >  > > 329
> >  > > $ git grep "Lily Pond" Documentation/ | wc -l
> >  > > 2
> >  >
> >  > I¹m sure a patch would be welcome :-) Not being familiar with sed,
> >  I
> >  > won¹t make one myselfŠ
> >  A patch for the two occurrences of "Lily Pond" has been created.
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Carl
> >___
> >lilypond-user mailing list
> >[4]lilypond-user@gnu.org
> >[5]https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
> >
> > References
> >
> >1. mailto:pierre.schneider.pa...@gmail.com
> >2. mailto:c_soren...@byu.edu
> >3. mailto:simon.albre...@mail.de
> >4. mailto:lilypond-user@gnu.org
> >5. https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
>
>
> > ___
> > lilypond-user mailing list
> > lilypond-user@gnu.org
> > https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
>
>


logos.ily
Description: Binary data
\version "2.19.46"
\include "logos.ily"

%% Syntax is \markup\logoX #size
%% Test:
\markup
%\with-color #red
\fill-line {
  \override #'(baseline-skip . 10)
  \center-column { 
\vspace #2
%\line { \with-color #red \bold "1. " "Music engraving by" \logoMalte #1 "LilyPond 2.19.46—www.lilypond.org" }
%\line { \with-color #red \bold "2. " "Music engraving by" \logoMalteThree #1 "LilyPond 2.19.46—www.lilypond.org" }
%\italic "Alternate with more space between leaves:" \vspace #-2 
%\line { \with-color #red \bold "3. " "Music engraving by" \logoMalteThreeAlter #1 "LilyPond 2.19.46—www.lilypond.org" }  
\line { \with-color #red \bold "4. " "Music engraving by" \logoSamuel #2 "LilyPond 2.19.46—www.lilypond.org" }
\line { \with-color #red \bold "5. " "Music engraving by" \logoMalteFive #1 "LilyPond 2.19.46—www.lilypond.org" }
\line { \with-color #red \bold "6. " "Music engraving by" \logoPierre #1 "LilyPond 2.19.46—www.lilypond.org" }
%\line { \with-color #red \bold "7. " "Music engraving by" \logoPierreAlt #1 "LilyPond 2.19.46—www.lilypond.org" }
%\line { \with-color #red \bold "8. " "Music engraving by" \logoMalteSix #1 "LilyPond 2.19.46—www.lilypond.org" }
\line { \with-color #red \bold "9. " "Music engraving by" \logoPierreTwo #1 "LilyPond 2.19.46—www.lilypond.org" }
\line { \with-color #red \bold "10. " "Music engraving by" \logoPierreThree #1 "LilyPond 

Re: LilyPond logo?

[Noeck]

Am 06.08.2016 um 18:25 schrieb Graham Percival:
> Why the emphasis on water flowers in the logo?  The important part
> of LilyPond is the beautifully-engraved sheet music, not botany.
> 
> I think it would be a nicer approach to having something
> recognizably "sheet music" in the logo.

+1

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Re: LilyPond logo?

[Graham Percival]

Why the emphasis on water flowers in the logo?  The important part
of LilyPond is the beautifully-engraved sheet music, not botany.

I think it would be a nicer approach to having something
recognizably "sheet music" in the logo.  For example, simply "Lp",
with the "p" being in the normal dynamic font, and the "L" being
some kind of fancy cursive thing.  That way, musicians would
instantly recognize the logo as having to do with sheet music.

On a related note, I highly recommend potrace, which does a
beautiful job of changing bitmaps into vector graphics.  To my
untrained eye, the output looks to be professionally drawn (due to
the gradual changes in line width):
http://potrace.sourceforge.net/samples.html


I also think it would be interesting to play with lilypond's text
markup commands.  There's a lot of neat things that can be done
with alignment, rotation, and the graphical text markup -- and
again, if the logo is comprised of elements of musical notation,
it will be much more recognizable as a logo for something to do
with sheet music.

Cheers,
- Graham Percival

On Sat, Aug 06, 2016 at 05:11:26PM +0200, Pierre Perol-Schneider wrote:
>Plus pdf
> 
>2016-08-06 17:10 GMT+02:00 Pierre Perol-Schneider
><[1]pierre.schneider.pa...@gmail.com>:
> 
>Logo test enclosed.
>Cheers,
>Pierre
> 
>2016-08-06 15:32 GMT+02:00 Carl Sorensen <[2]c_soren...@byu.edu>:
> 
>  On 8/5/16 11:28 AM, "Simon Albrecht" <[3]simon.albre...@mail.de>
>  wrote:
>  >Am 05.08.2016 um 15:50 schrieb Mark Knoop:
>  > > At 14:40 on 05 Aug 2016, Phil Holmes wrote:
>  > >> - Original Message -
>  > >> From: Andrew Bernard
>  > >>> I also note that there does not seem to be consistency as to
>  whether
>  > >>> lilypond is
>  > >>> ŒLilypond¹ or ŒLilyPond¹ or ŒLily Pond¹ or Œlilypond¹. That at
>  least
>  > >>> needs to be straightened out.
>  > >> LilyPond. Check the front page of the website.
>  > > $ git grep LilyPond Documentation/ | wc -l
>  > > 11154
>  > > $ git grep Lilypond Documentation/ | wc -l
>  > > 329
>  > > $ git grep "Lily Pond" Documentation/ | wc -l
>  > > 2
>  >
>  > I¹m sure a patch would be welcome :-) Not being familiar with sed,
>  I
>  > won¹t make one myselfŠ
>  A patch for the two occurrences of "Lily Pond" has been created.
> 
>Thanks,
>Carl
>___
>lilypond-user mailing list
>[4]lilypond-user@gnu.org
>[5]https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
> 
> References
> 
>1. mailto:pierre.schneider.pa...@gmail.com
>2. mailto:c_soren...@byu.edu
>3. mailto:simon.albre...@mail.de
>4. mailto:lilypond-user@gnu.org
>5. https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user


> ___
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> lilypond-user@gnu.org
> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user


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Re: LilyPond logo?

[Simon Albrecht]

Am 06.08.2016 um 17:11 schrieb Pierre Perol-Schneider: 
 Plus pdf 
 2016-08-06 17:10 GMT+02:00 Pierre Perol-Schneider :

   Logo test enclosed.   
 Basically, the only one I'd fancy is No. 6, except the flower now looks like 
an explosion, or the splash of a stone thrown in water :-)

 Best, Simon
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Re: LilyPond logo?

[Malte Meyn]

Am 06.08.2016 um 17:11 schrieb Pierre Perol-Schneider:

Plus pdf

2016-08-06 17:10 GMT+02:00 Pierre Perol-Schneider <
pierre.schneider.pa...@gmail.com>:


Logo test enclosed.

Cheers,
Pierre


My opinions:
- #5 is much better than both #3 and #2 (and #1) because it’s more 
realistic (no overlapping pads, having a gap) and less black. But not 
100% convincing either (especially the pad).
- #4 is very dark and an even number of petals per layer looks weird 
(cannot say why, of course five per layer isn’t realistic either)
- I like the flower of #6 (but not it’s outline version #7) but I think 
it would need a better matching (more realistic) pad. This pad matches 
well with it’s original flower from your first proposal :)
- #8 of course would need a pad to recognise it as a water lily rather 
than a generic flower; this was just a test to demonstrate a more 
realistic (?) positioning of petals, not a complete logo. Maybe I’ll try 
to add a pad.
- #9 has a similar problem as #6: the styles of the flower (very static) 
and the pad (a little bit more vivid) don’t really match IMHO


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Re: LilyPond logo?

[Johan Vromans]

On Sat, 6 Aug 2016 17:11:26 +0200
Pierre Perol-Schneider  wrote:

> Plus pdf

Bij far: Number 9, provided the lily lines are a bit thinner, and the
leaves individually drawn. Printers today have resolutions of 600dpi and
higher so no need for such a thick lines.

Also, I don't think that drawing the stems has added value.

Rough sketch attached.

-- Johan
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Re: LilyPond logo?

[Pierre Perol-Schneider]

Plus pdf

2016-08-06 17:10 GMT+02:00 Pierre Perol-Schneider <
pierre.schneider.pa...@gmail.com>:

> Logo test enclosed.
>
> Cheers,
> Pierre
>
> 2016-08-06 15:32 GMT+02:00 Carl Sorensen :
>
>>
>>
>> On 8/5/16 11:28 AM, "Simon Albrecht"  wrote:
>>
>> >Am 05.08.2016 um 15:50 schrieb Mark Knoop:
>> > > At 14:40 on 05 Aug 2016, Phil Holmes wrote:
>> > >> - Original Message -
>> > >> From: Andrew Bernard
>> > >>> I also note that there does not seem to be consistency as to whether
>> > >>> lilypond is
>> > >>> ŒLilypond¹ or ŒLilyPond¹ or ŒLily Pond¹ or Œlilypond¹. That at least
>> > >>> needs to be straightened out.
>> > >> LilyPond. Check the front page of the website.
>> > > $ git grep LilyPond Documentation/ | wc -l
>> > > 11154
>> > > $ git grep Lilypond Documentation/ | wc -l
>> > > 329
>> > > $ git grep "Lily Pond" Documentation/ | wc -l
>> > > 2
>> >
>> > I¹m sure a patch would be welcome :-) Not being familiar with sed, I
>> > won¹t make one myselfŠ
>>
>> A patch for the two occurrences of "Lily Pond" has been created.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Carl
>>
>>
>> ___
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>> lilypond-user@gnu.org
>> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
>>
>
>


test-logo.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document
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Re: LilyPond logo?

[Pierre Perol-Schneider]

Logo test enclosed.

Cheers,
Pierre

2016-08-06 15:32 GMT+02:00 Carl Sorensen :

>
>
> On 8/5/16 11:28 AM, "Simon Albrecht"  wrote:
>
> >Am 05.08.2016 um 15:50 schrieb Mark Knoop:
> > > At 14:40 on 05 Aug 2016, Phil Holmes wrote:
> > >> - Original Message -
> > >> From: Andrew Bernard
> > >>> I also note that there does not seem to be consistency as to whether
> > >>> lilypond is
> > >>> ŒLilypond¹ or ŒLilyPond¹ or ŒLily Pond¹ or Œlilypond¹. That at least
> > >>> needs to be straightened out.
> > >> LilyPond. Check the front page of the website.
> > > $ git grep LilyPond Documentation/ | wc -l
> > > 11154
> > > $ git grep Lilypond Documentation/ | wc -l
> > > 329
> > > $ git grep "Lily Pond" Documentation/ | wc -l
> > > 2
> >
> > I¹m sure a patch would be welcome :-) Not being familiar with sed, I
> > won¹t make one myselfŠ
>
> A patch for the two occurrences of "Lily Pond" has been created.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Carl
>
>
> ___
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> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
>


logos.ily
Description: Binary data
\version "2.19.46"
\include "logos.ily"

%% Syntax is \markup\logoX #size
%% Test:
\markup
%\with-color #red
%\fontsize #3
\fill-line {
  \override #'(baseline-skip . 10)
  \center-column { 
\vspace #2
\line { \with-color #red \bold "1. " "Music engraving by" \logoMalte #1 "LilyPond 2.19.46—www.lilypond.org" }
\line { \with-color #red \bold "2. " "Music engraving by" \logoMalteThree #1 "LilyPond 2.19.46—www.lilypond.org" }
\italic "Alternate with more space between leaves:" \vspace #-2 
\line { \with-color #red \bold "3. " "Music engraving by" \logoMalteThreeAlter #1 "LilyPond 2.19.46—www.lilypond.org" }  
\line { \with-color #red \bold "4. " "Music engraving by" \logoSamuel #1 "LilyPond 2.19.46—www.lilypond.org" }
\line { \with-color #red \bold "5. " "Music engraving by" \logoMalteFive #1 "LilyPond 2.19.46—www.lilypond.org" }
\line { \with-color #red \bold "6. " "Music engraving by" \logoPierre #1 "LilyPond 2.19.46—www.lilypond.org" }
\line { \with-color #red \bold "7. " "Music engraving by" \logoPierreAlt #1 "LilyPond 2.19.46—www.lilypond.org" }
\line { \with-color #red \bold "8. " "Music engraving by" \logoMalteSix #1 "LilyPond 2.19.46—www.lilypond.org" }
\line { \with-color #red \bold "9. " "Music engraving by" \logoPierreTwo #1 "LilyPond 2.19.46—www.lilypond.org" }
  }
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Re: LilyPond logo?

[Carl Sorensen]

On 8/5/16 11:28 AM, "Simon Albrecht"  wrote:

>Am 05.08.2016 um 15:50 schrieb Mark Knoop:
> > At 14:40 on 05 Aug 2016, Phil Holmes wrote:
> >> - Original Message -
> >> From: Andrew Bernard
> >>> I also note that there does not seem to be consistency as to whether
> >>> lilypond is
> >>> ŒLilypond¹ or ŒLilyPond¹ or ŒLily Pond¹ or Œlilypond¹. That at least
> >>> needs to be straightened out.
> >> LilyPond. Check the front page of the website.
> > $ git grep LilyPond Documentation/ | wc -l
> > 11154
> > $ git grep Lilypond Documentation/ | wc -l
> > 329
> > $ git grep "Lily Pond" Documentation/ | wc -l
> > 2
>
> I¹m sure a patch would be welcome :-) Not being familiar with sed, I
> won¹t make one myselfŠ

A patch for the two occurrences of "Lily Pond" has been created.

Thanks,

Carl


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Re: LilyPond logo?

[Carl Sorensen]

On 8/5/16 7:50 AM, "Mark Knoop"  wrote:

>At 14:40 on 05 Aug 2016, Phil Holmes wrote:
>>- Original Message -
>>From: Andrew Bernard
>>> I also note that there does not seem to be consistency as to whether
>>> lilypond is
>>> ŒLilypond¹ or ŒLilyPond¹ or ŒLily Pond¹ or Œlilypond¹. That at least
>>> needs to be straightened out.
>>
>>LilyPond.  Check the front page of the website.
>
>$ git grep LilyPond Documentation/ | wc -l
>11154
>$ git grep Lilypond Documentation/ | wc -l
>329
>$ git grep "Lily Pond" Documentation/ | wc -l
>2

The name of the software package is LilyPond.  The name of the binary is
lilypond (so when you talk about the binary (e.g. talk about usage) you
use lilypond).  I have no idea about the Lily Pond usage; I'd guess that
is an error.

Thanks,

Carl


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Re: LilyPond logo?

[Noeck]

>>   
>> https://www.iconfinder.com/icons/566750/ecology_flower_flowers_green_lily_nature_water-lily_icon#size=512
> 
> This icon is for sale at $1 ... 

… with a license saying:

The Licensed Material may not be:

 * ...

 * Incorporated into a logo or other trademark


https://www.iconfinder.com/licenses/basic

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Re: LilyPond logo?

[Johan Vromans]

On Sat, 06 Aug 2016 01:38:58 +0200 (CEST)
Werner LEMBERG  wrote:

> >> Looks promising!  Can you adjust the `packman' to have a softer gap?  
> > 
> > “softer”? shorter? narrower? Sorry, I don’t know what you mean ...  
> 
> Something similar to the waterlily logo at
> 
>   
> https://www.iconfinder.com/icons/566750/ecology_flower_flowers_green_lily_nature_water-lily_icon#size=512

This icon is for sale at $1 ... 

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Re: LilyPond logo?

[Flaming Hakama by Elaine]

> I still can't get pacman out of my mind ... you don't get that effect with
> the colour graphic because the colours are wrong, but as soon as it goes
> b ...
>
> Cheers,
> Wol
>

As an long-time, avid pacman fan (although really more of a Ms. pacman
guy), I submit that none of these designs look much like pac man.

And to the extent that they do, that is probably a favorable connotation.


David Elaine Alt
415 . 341 .4954   "*Confusion is
highly underrated*"
ela...@flaminghakama.com
self-immolation.info
skype: flaming_hakama
Producer ~ Composer ~ Instrumentalist
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
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Re: LilyPond logo?

[Flaming Hakama by Elaine]

> Now, I don’t want to be seen as a curmudgeon, but I just knew this would
> spin out into this sort of thing at the very start.
>

Sorry, but this post is setting off my curmudgeon-o-meter.


As a person with a lot of experience in graphic design myself, I am sorry
> to say that this whole business is regrettable. The problem with modern
> computing is that suddenly everybody is a designer, everybody is a
> typographer, everybody is a publisher, and the list goes on, because we now
> all have the tools to do this sort of work. But what is usually lacking is
> professional insight and vast experience.
>

So, none of us should be engraving music, either?  Isn't that best left for
professionals?

Really, this attitude is very 1990s.  Yes, desktop publishing (and now web
publishing) has allowed for a deluge of content that is not formatted
well.

But there are two huge upsides:  1) now everyone can publish content;  2)
along with ushering in lots of poorly-formatted content, huge amounts of
*well-formatted* content has also come into existence, which otherwise
would never have been published at all.

Similarly, I wouldn't expect amateurs to produce a good logo.  But that
doesn't mean they can't.

Likewise, a professional isn't always going to do a great job--there are a
great many examples of terrible logos designed by people with vast
professional insight (the London olympics.)



> Making a logo by committee is, as I pointed out in my early post, hugely
> time consuning and expensive of people’s resources, and ends up universally
> in the lowest common denominator product.
>

If people here want to spin up logo designs, or comment on them, they are
committing their own resources voluntarily.  No one is being diverted from
more important tasks because of an interest in a logo.

That isn't, by itself, what determines a good logo.

The criteria for the success of a logo is not just whether it can be
reproduced well in color or greyscale or not.  That is a worthy technical
consideration.   And most amateur executions of good ideas can be fixed.

More important is whether the imagery supports the "brand" of the entity.



> I still do not see why the web graphic waterlily has suddenly been assumed
> to be the lilypond ‘logo’.
>

"a symbol or other design adopted by an organization to identify its
products, uniform, vehicles, etc."

The waterlily adorns the public face of lilypond.org, and that no other
image is used in connection with lilypond anywhere else.  So, on the one
hand, it wins just by existence.

There are also good arguments for why the waterlily makes sense as a logo:
the waterlily draws a connection between the imaegry in the (rather odd)
name lilypond.  Which is to say, if you are a lily in a pond, you are
likely a water lily.  Water lilies have an appealing connotation, being a
flower, and like music engraving, have a certain intricacy.

My main comment on the recent icon-like b/w versions is that they lack a
clear connection to music, which arguably would be important for a music
engraving software logo, a problem not shared by the the existing picture
version.


Here are the questions essential to furthering the project of a good logo:
what reaction should people have to the logo?  What message or connotation
should it be communicating?  Simplicity, elegance, confidence,
gee-whizzery, frustration, DIY, creativity, magic, durability,
slight-of-hand, steampunkery, lyricism, geekery, endless rants?  When
people who might be candidates for using lilypond run across materials with
the logo, what type of impression should it convey?

These are the questions that should be explicitly discussed to help anyone
who wants to work on logo design, be it "in house" or a professional
designer.

Assuming that the symbol is a waterlily, how should we *feel* when we see
the waterlily?  Who is our potential market, what imagery do they respond
to, and how do we convey our value proposition to them?

These are the important questions at the heart of professional branding,
which a designer will not be able to answer for us.  If we cannot answer
them, then we are not in a position to fruitfully engage with a designer.



> I still do not see the need for a ‘logo’ for scores. What publishing house
> puts logos at the bottom of pages? For a start it is pure noise - the less
> noise musicians have to deal with the better. Since lilypond is not a
> publishing house, you don’t need a logo for covers (such as Henle etc).
>


> I do not want to be coerced into using an amateur designed graphic in my
> scores or work as part of my use of lilypond. Lilypond is fine without a
> logo. A textual acknowlegement is surely adequate.
>

Your desire to not use a logo in scores is not an argument against having
one.  Although I agree with you that I don't see much typical use in the
practice.

However, for any context where someone wants to do marketing for lilypond,
it would be essential to have a logo available;  text-only 

Re: LilyPond logo?

[Werner LEMBERG]

>> Looks promising!  Can you adjust the `packman' to have a softer gap?
> 
> “softer”? shorter? narrower? Sorry, I don’t know what you mean ...

Something similar to the waterlily logo at

  
https://www.iconfinder.com/icons/566750/ecology_flower_flowers_green_lily_nature_water-lily_icon#size=512


Werner
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Re: LilyPond logo?

[Malte Meyn]

Am 05.08.2016 um 22:59 schrieb Werner LEMBERG:



But maybe less is more and two flower layers are enough; so here is
a combination of logo3 and logo4 (only two flower layers -> less
detail, only one pad but with gap -> more typical).


Looks promising!  Can you adjust the `packman' to have a softer gap?


“softer”? shorter? narrower? Sorry, I don’t know what you mean ...

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Re: LilyPond logo?

[Werner LEMBERG]

> But maybe less is more and two flower layers are enough; so here is
> a combination of logo3 and logo4 (only two flower layers -> less
> detail, only one pad but with gap -> more typical).

Looks promising!  Can you adjust the `packman' to have a softer gap?


Werner

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Re: LilyPond logo?

[Werner LEMBERG]

From: Henning Hraban Ramm <lilypon...@fiee.net>
Subject: Re: LilyPond logo?
Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2016 21:40:23 +0200

> 
> Am 2016-08-05 um 19:29 schrieb Noeck <noeck.marb...@gmx.de>:
> 
>>> https://www.iconfinder.com/icons/566749/flora_flower_flowers_green_lily_plant_water-lily_icon
>> 
>> This one is a well-designed icon (IMHO).

I like the mirrored image even more:

  
https://www.iconfinder.com/icons/566750/ecology_flower_flowers_green_lily_nature_water-lily_icon#size=512

> Thank you, that’s what I had in mind when I read the OP’s question.
> Unfortunately we can’t use it.

Mhmm, we could ask the designer whether he was willing to contribute
this single logo to the LilyPond project.


Werner
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Re: LilyPond logo?

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

Am 2016-08-05 um 19:29 schrieb Noeck :

>> https://www.iconfinder.com/icons/566749/flora_flower_flowers_green_lily_plant_water-lily_icon
> 
> This one is a well-designed icon (IMHO).

Thank you, that’s what I had in mind when I read the OP’s question. 
Unfortunately we can’t use it.

Greetlings, Hraban
---
fiëé visuëlle
Henning Hraban Ramm
http://www.fiee.net
http://angerweit.tikon.ch/lieder/
https://www.cacert.org (I'm an assurer)





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Re: LilyPond logo?

[Anthony Youngman]

The problem is the black lilyleaf looks like pacman. I notice that the 
more the split in the leaf is rotated to point down, the less it looks 
like a mouth (so the less it looks like pacman). The alternative - two 
leaves - feels unnatural.


Cheers,
Wol

On 05/08/16 10:05, Malte Meyn wrote:



Am 05.08.2016 um 10:28 schrieb Wols Lists:

On 05/08/16 05:15, tyronicus wrote:

The vectorized image looks very good. It'd be nice, though, to have
some sort
of "icon" logo in true black and white. Maybe something like the
attached?
It's an Inkscape svg if anyone wants to mess with it.

lp.png 
lp.svg 


Ouch! Sorry, my reaction is "Pacman!"

It would be better in outline.


Are you sure? My first try was with outlined leafs but the contrast
“white petals vs. black leaf” looks much more convincing IMO.

Here are some experiments of mine. logo1.svg is the one I used in the
score, logo_outline.svg is the outline version, logo2/3/4.svg are some
attempts to make it simpler.


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Re: LilyPond logo?

[Anthony Youngman]

I like the first and last ones. The first is closer to the web graphic, 
but I think I prefer the last one.


I still can't get pacman out of my mind ... you don't get that effect 
with the colour graphic because the colours are wrong, but as soon as it 
goes b ...


Cheers,
Wol

On 05/08/16 13:40, Pierre Perol-Schneider wrote:

Hi All,

Here's tests with the different proposition.
I've added mine at last but I'm not satisfied yet.

Cheers,
Pierre



2016-08-05 14:36 GMT+02:00 Alexander Kobel >:

Malte,

I think you did a really nice job there. However, I can't help but
be reminded of

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:3_schwarze_Punkte_auf_gelbem_Grund_2.svg


by the dots in the center... (For those in non-German-speaking
countries: that's the symbol blind people wear in public as a
warning for other participants in traffic.)

Looking at the "original" picture from a distance, I perceive the
center as only one colored patch. Would you mind trying a version
with just one dot in the center?


Best,
Alexander



On 2016-08-05 14:01, Malte Meyn wrote:

Am 05.08.2016 um 13:52 schrieb Marc Hohl:

Am 05.08.2016 um 11:38 schrieb Werner LEMBERG:


Here are some experiments of mine.


Very nice!

logo1.svg is the one I used in the score,
logo_outline.svg is the
outline version, logo2/3/4.svg are some attempts to
make it simpler.


I like logo3 most.


+1


My favourite is logo2, and I like tyronicus’s idea of only one
leaf with
the typical gap and thus made logo4.

But maybe less is more and two flower layers are enough; so here
is a
combination of logo3 and logo4 (only two flower layers -> less
detail,
only one pad but with gap -> more typical).


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Re: LilyPond logo?

[Noeck]

> https://www.iconfinder.com/icons/566749/flora_flower_flowers_green_lily_plant_water-lily_icon

This one is a well-designed icon (IMHO).

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Re: LilyPond logo?

[Simon Albrecht]

Am 05.08.2016 um 15:50 schrieb Mark Knoop:
 > At 14:40 on 05 Aug 2016, Phil Holmes wrote:
 >> - Original Message -
 >> From: Andrew Bernard
 >>> I also note that there does not seem to be consistency as to whether
 >>> lilypond is
 >>> 'Lilypond' or 'LilyPond' or 'Lily Pond' or 'lilypond'. That at least
 >>> needs to be straightened out.
 >> LilyPond. Check the front page of the website.
 > $ git grep LilyPond Documentation/ | wc -l
 > 11154
 > $ git grep Lilypond Documentation/ | wc -l
 > 329
 > $ git grep "Lily Pond" Documentation/ | wc -l
 > 2

 I'm sure a patch would be welcome :-) Not being familiar with sed, I 
 won't make one myself

 Best, Simon
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Re: LilyPond logo?

[Pierre Perol-Schneider]

Hi All,

@ Simon, Malte, Davide and Hraban,
Thanks !!
And yes, I definitely have to stylized the petals.

Cheers,
Pierre

2016-08-05 17:09 GMT+02:00 Pierre-Luc Gauthier :

> Hi Andrew,
>
> > I still do not see why the web graphic waterlily has suddenly been
> assumed
> > to be the lilypond ‘logo’.
>
> To my knowledge it is the only graphic representation of the LilyPond
> project.
> I think it sort of made its way as the official unofficial logo.
>
> > One could always say that I am free to not use a logo, but this argument,
> > which will certainly be raised, is not valid in my opinion.
>
> Could you elaborate?
>
> > Logos are for branding and marketing. Why do we need one?
>
> Without falling into proselytism, I think the LilyPond project needs
> more visibility.
> And this logo would one of other tools for those who *want* to make
> this project more visible.
> Finale and Sibelius (to name what most musicians I talk to reference
> as "the only two 'professional' alternatives") all are pretty
> obnoxious and intrusive in their marketing and promotion strategies
> and even them do have that default "tag line".
> I happen to think there should be no *default* LilyPond tag line.
>
> But, I chose to make it really clear and as un-intrusive as possible
> that all my engravings were made using LilyPond.
> I do want people to know that there is free/libre software capable of
> beautiful professional score engraving.
>
> For example, this [1] is the tagline I use.
> It would not fit in "professional" prints but that is not what I do.
> There is so much editing from day to day that I need this "noise" as
> you said and I found this explicit version numbering and software
> identification to be a load off my mind and an aid for people working
> within the project.
> As a bonus, if I could, I would use a simple, elegant, logo
> representing the software.
>
> So my question to you is :
> Provided some logo is agreed upon,
> What would be the problem making an elegant and professional logo
> available for those who find a need for one ?
>
> --
> Pierre-Luc Gauthier
>
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>
>
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Re: LilyPond logo?

[Pierre-Luc Gauthier]

Hi Andrew,

> I still do not see why the web graphic waterlily has suddenly been assumed
> to be the lilypond ‘logo’.

To my knowledge it is the only graphic representation of the LilyPond project.
I think it sort of made its way as the official unofficial logo.

> One could always say that I am free to not use a logo, but this argument,
> which will certainly be raised, is not valid in my opinion.

Could you elaborate?

> Logos are for branding and marketing. Why do we need one?

Without falling into proselytism, I think the LilyPond project needs
more visibility.
And this logo would one of other tools for those who *want* to make
this project more visible.
Finale and Sibelius (to name what most musicians I talk to reference
as "the only two 'professional' alternatives") all are pretty
obnoxious and intrusive in their marketing and promotion strategies
and even them do have that default "tag line".
I happen to think there should be no *default* LilyPond tag line.

But, I chose to make it really clear and as un-intrusive as possible
that all my engravings were made using LilyPond.
I do want people to know that there is free/libre software capable of
beautiful professional score engraving.

For example, this [1] is the tagline I use.
It would not fit in "professional" prints but that is not what I do.
There is so much editing from day to day that I need this "noise" as
you said and I found this explicit version numbering and software
identification to be a load off my mind and an aid for people working
within the project.
As a bonus, if I could, I would use a simple, elegant, logo
representing the software.

So my question to you is :
Provided some logo is agreed upon,
What would be the problem making an elegant and professional logo
available for those who find a need for one ?

-- 
Pierre-Luc Gauthier
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Re: LilyPond logo?

[Malte Meyn]

Am 05.08.2016 um 16:27 schrieb Johan Vromans:

On Fri, 5 Aug 2016 14:01:26 +0200
Malte Meyn  wrote:


But maybe less is more and two flower layers are enough; so here is a
combination of logo3 and logo4 (only two flower layers -> less detail,
only one pad but with gap -> more typical).


Yes, simplicity is better. However, this looses the typical 'lotus'
appearance of a waterlily.


That’s right. Another idea: Don’t use stars = groups of five petals but 
individual petals (maybe golden angle apart)? I don’t know how to do 
this in inkscape but to demonstrate my idea I wrote my first PostScript 
program ;)


logo.ps
Description: PostScript document
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Re: LilyPond logo?

[Johan Vromans]

On Fri, 5 Aug 2016 14:01:26 +0200
Malte Meyn  wrote:

> But maybe less is more and two flower layers are enough; so here is a 
> combination of logo3 and logo4 (only two flower layers -> less detail, 
> only one pad but with gap -> more typical).

Yes, simplicity is better. However, this looses the typical 'lotus'
appearance of a waterlily.

See e.g.
https://www.iconfinder.com/icons/566749/flora_flower_flowers_green_lily_plant_water-lily_icon

http://www.freepik.com/free-icon/lotus_864201.htm

http://www.shutterstock.com/pic-150336194/stock-vector-lotus-symbol.html

-- Johan

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Re: LilyPond logo?

[Kieren MacMillan]

Hi Andrew (et al.),

> Logos are for branding and marketing. Why do we need one?

Because we want to brand and market LilyPond/Lilypond/Lily Pond.  ;)

Like it or not, wider acceptance and use of the application — which is a stated 
goal of many of its users and developers, and an implied goal of many others — 
would be greatly aided by having a solid, consistent, and recognizable brand, 
which (in our visually-driven culture) includes a logo.

Cheers,
Kieren.


Kieren MacMillan, composer
‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info
‣ email: i...@kierenmacmillan.info


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Re: LilyPond logo?

[Mark Knoop]

At 14:40 on 05 Aug 2016, Phil Holmes wrote:
>- Original Message -
>From: Andrew Bernard
>> I also note that there does not seem to be consistency as to whether
>> lilypond is
>> ‘Lilypond’ or ‘LilyPond’ or ‘Lily Pond’ or ‘lilypond’. That at least
>> needs to be straightened out.
>
>LilyPond.  Check the front page of the website.

$ git grep LilyPond Documentation/ | wc -l
11154
$ git grep Lilypond Documentation/ | wc -l
329
$ git grep "Lily Pond" Documentation/ | wc -l
2

--
Mark Knoop

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Re: LilyPond logo?

[Phil Holmes]

- Original Message - 
From: Andrew Bernard


I also note that there does not seem to be consistency as to whether 
lilypond is
‘Lilypond’ or ‘LilyPond’ or ‘Lily Pond’ or ‘lilypond’. That at least needs 
to be straightened out.


LilyPond.  Check the front page of the website.

--
Phil Holmes




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Re: LilyPond logo?

[Andrew Bernard]

Hello Simon, and Lilyponders,

I agree with you Simon.

Now, I don’t want to be seen as a curmudgeon, but I just knew this would
spin out into this sort of thing at the very start.

As a person with a lot of experience in graphic design myself, I am sorry
to say that this whole business is regrettable. The problem with modern
computing is that suddenly everybody is a designer, everybody is a
typographer, everybody is a publisher, and the list goes on, because we now
all have the tools to do this sort of work. But what is usually lacking is
professional insight and vast experience. Making a logo by committee is, as
I pointed out in my early post, hugely time consuning and expensive of
people’s resources, and ends up universally in the lowest common
denominator product.

I still do not see why the web graphic waterlily has suddenly been assumed
to be the lilypond ‘logo’. I still do not see the need for a ‘logo’ for
scores. What publishing house puts logos at the bottom of pages? For a
start it is pure noise - the less noise musicians have to deal with the
better. Since lilypond is not a publishing house, you don’t need a logo for
covers (such as Henle etc).

I do not want to be coerced into using an amateur designed graphic in my
scores or work as part of my use of lilypond. Lilypond is fine without a
logo. A textual acknowlegement is surely adequate.

But if people have decided they must have one, then as Simon rightly
suggests, get a professional, experienced logo designer to do one, someone
with long practice in visual communications. But this seems to go against
the open source nature of the project.

One could always say that I am free to not use a logo, but this argument,
which will certainly be raised, is not valid in my opinion.

I also note that there does not seem to be consistency as to whether
lilypond is ‘Lilypond’ or ‘LilyPond’ or ‘Lily Pond’ or ‘lilypond’. That at
least needs to be straightened out.

Logos are for branding and marketing. Why do we need one?


Andrew


On 5 August 2016 at 10:58:21 PM, Simon Albrecht wrote:

I think we should really designate a small team or maybe even one single
person to design the logo. It’s no good to have large e-mail threads
with everyone chiming in on their personal opinion. And it should be
someone with experience in the topic, a professional if we can have one.
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Re: LilyPond logo?

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

Am 2016-08-05 um 14:40 schrieb Pierre Perol-Schneider 
:

> Here's tests with the different proposition.
> I've added mine at last but I'm not satisfied yet. 

While I like the bold stylized look of the other attempts, I find your version 
most suitable with regard to the typographical focus of LilyPond. I mean, the 
others are modern logos, yours is more like a printer’s ornament.
Maybe you could simplify the flower a bit more, then I’d "buy" it.

IMO it’s more important to get it working in type sizes, as was the OP’s 
intended use; a colored version would be good as application logo or website 
favicon. In big sizes, like on the homepage, I’d stick to the image we have.

WRT experts: I’m a media designer and printing engineer.

Greetlings, Hraban
---
fiëé visuëlle
Henning Hraban Ramm
http://www.fiee.net
http://angerweit.tikon.ch/lieder/
https://www.cacert.org (I'm an assurer)





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Re: LilyPond logo?

[Davide Liessi]

2016-08-05 14:57 GMT+02:00 Simon Albrecht :
> Am 05.08.2016 um 14:40 schrieb Pierre Perol-Schneider:
>> Here's tests with the different proposition.
>> I've added mine at last but I'm not satisfied yet.
>
> Wow, I like yours a lot. As I said in the other sub-thread, we should
> designate the task of finding a logo to a small group of experts, but
> that small group should definitely know about these ideas.

I fully agree with Simon on both his messages, in particular about the
small group of experts.

(But since we are expressing opinions, I like both Malte's and
Pierre's approaches, with a preference to the latter.)

Best wishes.
Davide

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Re: LilyPond logo?

[Alexander Kobel]

On 2016-08-05 14:56, Malte Meyn wrote:

Am 05.08.2016 um 14:36 schrieb Alexander Kobel:

Looking at the "original" picture from a distance, I perceive the center
as only one colored patch. Would you mind trying a version with just one
dot in the center?


I used the five dots because the center of a flower has much detail. A
single dot has to be a little bit bigger (else the center looks a bit
empty) which makes the appearence heavy IMO. Anyway, here is it ;)


Hm, I agree. Also, I guess I did the greenhorn mistake: look at the logo 
at large scale in isolation. Your initial versions look totally 
different with some context, as in Pierre's comparison.


Certainly a point for Simon, with the obvious follow-up consequence: the 
decision should not be based on remarks by blatant non-experts (such as 
myself)...



Nevertheless, thanks!
Alexander

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Re: LilyPond logo?

[Malte Meyn]

Am 05.08.2016 um 14:40 schrieb Pierre Perol-Schneider:

Here's tests with the different proposition.
I've added mine at last but I'm not satisfied yet.


That’s nice too. A bit more vivid than my “I’ve never really used 
inkscape before but the star tool is nice” experiments ;) Did you draw 
this by hand?


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Re: LilyPond logo?

[Simon Albrecht]

Am 05.08.2016 um 14:40 schrieb Pierre Perol-Schneider:
 > Hi All,
 >
 > Here's tests with the different proposition.
 > I've added mine at last but I'm not satisfied yet.

 Wow, I like yours a lot. As I said in the other sub-thread, we should 
 designate the task of finding a logo to a small group of experts, but 
 that small group should definitely know about these ideas.

 Best, Simon
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Re: LilyPond logo?

[Simon Albrecht]

Am 05.08.2016 um 10:43 schrieb Malte Meyn:
 > Am 04.08.2016 um 16:43 schrieb Carl Sorensen:
 >> On 8/4/16 7:10 AM, "Andrew Bernard"  wrote:
 >>> Does lilypond actually need visual
 >>> branding? Are we trying to increase market share with a logo?
 >
 > I think it would be nice to have. As I said in my first post, an eye 
 > catcher would be nice. This idea came to me because the tagline isn't 
 > very visible on full pages.

 I think it isn't supposed to be. Even having a tagline is on the verge 
 of being obnoxious and for any kind of professional work a small textual 
 note is the maximum one should do.

 >
 >> I agree that if we want to have a logo available on the colophon, we
 >> should create a real logo. And this will require some work and 
 >> discussion.
 >
 > Some questions to discuss:
 >
 > 1. Do we want text in the logo? Or only a graphic (probably a 
 > waterlily)? Or a graphic with optional text?

 It would probably be best to have both.

 > 2. If so, which font to use?

 That would almost certainly be LilyPond's default text font, as already 
 in tyronicus' sample.

 > 3. Should the image be realistic or stylised?

 Definitely stylised; the logo should be very small.

 > 4. Should one be able to invert it (white/light on black/dark 
 > background)? If it's a waterlily with white/light petals maybe this 
 > would need an extra version.
 > 5. Who would design the logo? A small designated team (maybe some 
 > professionals in the lilypond community) or everyone interested?

 I think we should really designate a small team or maybe even one single 
 person to design the logo. It's no good to have large e-mail threads 
 with everyone chiming in on their personal opinion. And it should be 
 someone with experience in the topic, a professional if we can have one.

 > 6. If the latter, how to choose from different proposed logos?

 One might conduct a poll on the user list to select from 3 or 4 
 proposals made by that small team, that's the most democracy I'd think 
 useful here.

 Best, Simon
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Re: LilyPond logo?

[Malte Meyn]

Am 05.08.2016 um 14:36 schrieb Alexander Kobel:

Looking at the "original" picture from a distance, I perceive the center
as only one colored patch. Would you mind trying a version with just one
dot in the center?


I used the five dots because the center of a flower has much detail. A 
single dot has to be a little bit bigger (else the center looks a bit 
empty) which makes the appearence heavy IMO. Anyway, here is it ;)
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Re: LilyPond logo?

[Pierre Perol-Schneider]

Hi All,

Here's tests with the different proposition.
I've added mine at last but I'm not satisfied yet.

Cheers,
Pierre



2016-08-05 14:36 GMT+02:00 Alexander Kobel :

> Malte,
>
> I think you did a really nice job there. However, I can't help but be
> reminded of
>
> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:3_schwarze_Punkte_auf_ge
> lbem_Grund_2.svg
> by the dots in the center... (For those in non-German-speaking countries:
> that's the symbol blind people wear in public as a warning for other
> participants in traffic.)
>
> Looking at the "original" picture from a distance, I perceive the center
> as only one colored patch. Would you mind trying a version with just one
> dot in the center?
>
>
> Best,
> Alexander
>
>
>
> On 2016-08-05 14:01, Malte Meyn wrote:
>
>> Am 05.08.2016 um 13:52 schrieb Marc Hohl:
>>
>>> Am 05.08.2016 um 11:38 schrieb Werner LEMBERG:
>>>

 Here are some experiments of mine.
>

 Very nice!

 logo1.svg is the one I used in the score, logo_outline.svg is the
> outline version, logo2/3/4.svg are some attempts to make it simpler.
>

 I like logo3 most.

>>>
>>> +1
>>>
>>
>> My favourite is logo2, and I like tyronicus’s idea of only one leaf with
>> the typical gap and thus made logo4.
>>
>> But maybe less is more and two flower layers are enough; so here is a
>> combination of logo3 and logo4 (only two flower layers -> less detail,
>> only one pad but with gap -> more typical).
>>
>>
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logos.ily
Description: Binary data
\version "2.19.46"
\include "logos.ily"

%% Syntax is \markup\logoX #size
%% Test:
\markup
\override #'(baseline-skip . 10)
\center-column { 
  \line { "Music engraving by" \logoMalte #1 "LilyPond 2.19.46" }
  \line { "Music engraving by" \logoMalteThree #1 "LilyPond 2.19.46" }
  \line { "Music engraving by" \logoSamuel #1 "LilyPond 2.19.46" }
  \line { "Music engraving by" \logoMalteFive #1 "LilyPond 2.19.46" }
  \line { "Music engraving by" \logoPierre #1 "LilyPond 2.19.46" }
}

test-logo.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document
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Re: LilyPond logo?

[Alexander Kobel]

Malte,

I think you did a really nice job there. However, I can't help but be 
reminded of


https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:3_schwarze_Punkte_auf_gelbem_Grund_2.svg
by the dots in the center... (For those in non-German-speaking 
countries: that's the symbol blind people wear in public as a warning 
for other participants in traffic.)


Looking at the "original" picture from a distance, I perceive the center 
as only one colored patch. Would you mind trying a version with just one 
dot in the center?



Best,
Alexander


On 2016-08-05 14:01, Malte Meyn wrote:

Am 05.08.2016 um 13:52 schrieb Marc Hohl:

Am 05.08.2016 um 11:38 schrieb Werner LEMBERG:



Here are some experiments of mine.


Very nice!


logo1.svg is the one I used in the score, logo_outline.svg is the
outline version, logo2/3/4.svg are some attempts to make it simpler.


I like logo3 most.


+1


My favourite is logo2, and I like tyronicus’s idea of only one leaf with
the typical gap and thus made logo4.

But maybe less is more and two flower layers are enough; so here is a
combination of logo3 and logo4 (only two flower layers -> less detail,
only one pad but with gap -> more typical).


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Re: LilyPond logo?

[Marc Hohl]

Am 05.08.2016 um 14:01 schrieb Malte Meyn:
[...]

But maybe less is more and two flower layers are enough; so here is a
combination of logo3 and logo4 (only two flower layers -> less detail,
only one pad but with gap -> more typical).


I like it!

Marc


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Re: LilyPond logo?

[Malte Meyn]

Am 05.08.2016 um 13:52 schrieb Marc Hohl:

Am 05.08.2016 um 11:38 schrieb Werner LEMBERG:



Here are some experiments of mine.


Very nice!


logo1.svg is the one I used in the score, logo_outline.svg is the
outline version, logo2/3/4.svg are some attempts to make it simpler.


I like logo3 most.


+1


My favourite is logo2, and I like tyronicus’s idea of only one leaf with 
the typical gap and thus made logo4.


But maybe less is more and two flower layers are enough; so here is a 
combination of logo3 and logo4 (only two flower layers -> less detail, 
only one pad but with gap -> more typical).
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Re: LilyPond logo?

[Marc Hohl]

Am 05.08.2016 um 11:38 schrieb Werner LEMBERG:



Here are some experiments of mine.


Very nice!


logo1.svg is the one I used in the score, logo_outline.svg is the
outline version, logo2/3/4.svg are some attempts to make it simpler.


I like logo3 most.


+1

Marc


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Re: LilyPond logo?

[Werner LEMBERG]

> Here are some experiments of mine.

Very nice!

> logo1.svg is the one I used in the score, logo_outline.svg is the
> outline version, logo2/3/4.svg are some attempts to make it simpler.

I like logo3 most.


Werner

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Re: LilyPond logo?

[Malte Meyn]

Am 05.08.2016 um 10:28 schrieb Wols Lists:

On 05/08/16 05:15, tyronicus wrote:

The vectorized image looks very good. It'd be nice, though, to have some sort
of "icon" logo in true black and white. Maybe something like the attached?
It's an Inkscape svg if anyone wants to mess with it.

lp.png 
lp.svg 


Ouch! Sorry, my reaction is "Pacman!"

It would be better in outline.


Are you sure? My first try was with outlined leafs but the contrast 
“white petals vs. black leaf” looks much more convincing IMO.


Here are some experiments of mine. logo1.svg is the one I used in the 
score, logo_outline.svg is the outline version, logo2/3/4.svg are some 
attempts to make it simpler.
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Re: LilyPond logo?

[Malte Meyn]

Am 04.08.2016 um 16:43 schrieb Carl Sorensen:

On 8/4/16 7:10 AM, "Andrew Bernard"  wrote:

Does lilypond actually need visual
branding? Are we trying to increase market share with a logo?


I think it would be nice to have. As I said in my first post, an eye 
catcher would be nice. This idea came to me because the tagline isn’t 
very visible on full pages.



It's pretty clear to me that the waterlily graphic is *not* a logo; it's a
web graphic.  I like it on the website.  But it doesn't have the right
characteristics for a logo.


I agree on this.


Yes, and not gray scale either.  Just black and white.


And on that. (This has also the advantage that you can use it in 
different colors if you want.)



I agree that if we want to have a logo available on the colophon, we
should create a real logo.  And this will require some work and discussion.


Some questions to discuss:

1. Do we want text in the logo? Or only a graphic (probably a 
waterlily)? Or a graphic with optional text?

2. If so, which font to use?
3. Should the image be realistic or stylised?
4. Should one be able to invert it (white/light on black/dark 
background)? If it’s a waterlily with white/light petals maybe this 
would need an extra version.
5. Who would design the logo? A small designated team (maybe some 
professionals in the lilypond community) or everyone interested?

6. If the latter, how to choose from different proposed logos?

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Re: LilyPond logo?

[Wols Lists]

On 05/08/16 05:15, tyronicus wrote:
> The vectorized image looks very good. It'd be nice, though, to have some sort
> of "icon" logo in true black and white. Maybe something like the attached?
> It's an Inkscape svg if anyone wants to mess with it.
> 
> lp.png   
> lp.svg   

Ouch! Sorry, my reaction is "Pacman!"

It would be better in outline.

Cheers,
Wol

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Re: LilyPond logo?

[tyronicus]

The vectorized image looks very good. It'd be nice, though, to have some sort
of "icon" logo in true black and white. Maybe something like the attached?
It's an Inkscape svg if anyone wants to mess with it.

lp.png   
lp.svg   



--
View this message in context: 
http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/LilyPond-logo-tp193408p193438.html
Sent from the User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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Re: LilyPond logo?

[bb]

I appreciated the b/w line version more.

Regards

Am 04.08.2016 um 15:59 schrieb Pierre Perol-Schneider:

Hi Ralph,
Here you go.



2016-08-04 14:40 GMT+02:00 Ralph Palmer >:


On Thu, Aug 4, 2016 at 8:31 AM, Pierre Perol-Schneider
> wrote:

Here's a gray scale version.
Lighter by far.

\version "2.19.46"
\include "logo-gray.ily"

%% Syntax is \markup\logoGray #size
%% Test:
\markup\logoGray #5

I've already tried an outlined b/w version but I'm not
satisfied with it yet.

Cheers,
Pierre


Greetings, Pierre -

Could you please provide a .jpg, so those of us who are not
running the latest unstable version can view it?

Thanks in advance,

Ralph


-- 
Ralph Palmer

Brattleboro, VT
USA
palmer.r.vio...@gmail.com 




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Re: LilyPond logo?

[Carl Sorensen]

On 8/4/16 7:10 AM, "Andrew Bernard"  wrote:

>There seems to be an assumption here that the logo _is_ the waterlily
>graphic on the webpage, and that it is just a matter of coding it up. I
>am not sure that this is the formal lilypond logo, is it? Has that been
>decided or discussed? In any case, does it convey the brand clearly and
>recognisably? What is a logo for? Does lilypond actually need visual
>branding? Are we trying to increase market share with a logo?

It's pretty clear to me that the waterlily graphic is *not* a logo; it's a
web graphic.  I like it on the website.  But it doesn't have the right
characteristics for a logo.

>Colour is no good - pretty much everybody prints music in B, and
>musicians copy it on photocopiers in B So if a logo is to be made, it
>would have to be B almost of necessity.

Yes, and not gray scale either.  Just black and white.

>
>Since lilypond is GNU lilypond, does the GNU logo have to be
>incorporated? I think there are many questions.

The GNU logo does not have to be incorporated.  See, for example the GIMP
logo.  http://www.gimp.org/

I agree that if we want to have a logo available on the colophon, we
should create a real logo.  And this will require some work and discussion.

Thanks,

Carl


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Re: LilyPond logo?

[Pierre Perol-Schneider]

Hi Andrew,

2016-08-04 15:10 GMT+02:00 Andrew Bernard :

> There seems to be an assumption here that the logo _is_ the waterlily
> graphic on the webpage, and that it is just a matter of coding it up.
>
...
See : https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:LilyPond-logo.png

...


> Colour is no good - pretty much everybody prints music in B, and
> musicians copy it on photocopiers in B So if a logo is to be made, it
> would have to be B almost of necessity.
>
...
I clearly agree. My idea was just to start doing something.

Cheers,
Pierre
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Re: LilyPond logo?

[Pierre Perol-Schneider]

Hi Ralph,
Here you go.



2016-08-04 14:40 GMT+02:00 Ralph Palmer :

> On Thu, Aug 4, 2016 at 8:31 AM, Pierre Perol-Schneider <
> pierre.schneider.pa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Here's a gray scale version.
>> Lighter by far.
>>
>> \version "2.19.46"
>> \include "logo-gray.ily"
>>
>> %% Syntax is \markup\logoGray #size
>> %% Test:
>> \markup\logoGray #5
>>
>> I've already tried an outlined b/w version but I'm not satisfied with it
>> yet.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Pierre
>>
>
> Greetings, Pierre -
>
> Could you please provide a .jpg, so those of us who are not running the
> latest unstable version can view it?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Ralph
>
>
> --
> Ralph Palmer
> Brattleboro, VT
> USA
> palmer.r.vio...@gmail.com
>


test-logo.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document
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Re: LilyPond logo?

[Andrew Bernard]

There seems to be an assumption here that the logo _is_ the waterlily
graphic on the webpage, and that it is just a matter of coding it up. I am
not sure that this is the formal lilypond logo, is it? Has that been
decided or discussed? In any case, does it convey the brand clearly and
recognisably? What is a logo for? Does lilypond actually need visual
branding? Are we trying to increase market share with a logo?

I’d suggest a dicussion before launching off and finalising this.

Colour is no good - pretty much everybody prints music in B, and
musicians copy it on photocopiers in B So if a logo is to be made, it
would have to be B almost of necessity.

Since lilypond is GNU lilypond, does the GNU logo have to be incorporated?
I think there are many questions.

Andrew
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Re: LilyPond logo?

[Ralph Palmer]

On Thu, Aug 4, 2016 at 8:31 AM, Pierre Perol-Schneider <
pierre.schneider.pa...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Here's a gray scale version.
> Lighter by far.
>
> \version "2.19.46"
> \include "logo-gray.ily"
>
> %% Syntax is \markup\logoGray #size
> %% Test:
> \markup\logoGray #5
>
> I've already tried an outlined b/w version but I'm not satisfied with it
> yet.
>
> Cheers,
> Pierre
>

Greetings, Pierre -

Could you please provide a .jpg, so those of us who are not running the
latest unstable version can view it?

Thanks in advance,

Ralph


-- 
Ralph Palmer
Brattleboro, VT
USA
palmer.r.vio...@gmail.com
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Re: LilyPond logo?

[Pierre Perol-Schneider]

Here's a gray scale version.
Lighter by far.

\version "2.19.46"
\include "logo-gray.ily"

%% Syntax is \markup\logoGray #size
%% Test:
\markup\logoGray #5

I've already tried an outlined b/w version but I'm not satisfied with it
yet.

Cheers,
Pierre

2016-08-04 13:26 GMT+02:00 bb :

> If any logo, I prefer the b/w version! I never print music sheets with a
> colour printer.
>
> Regards
>
>
> Am 04.08.2016 um 13:17 schrieb Pierre Perol-Schneider:
>
> Hi Malte, Hi All
>
> Here's a first attempt to produce a vectorialised logo.
> The file uses the new v2.19 markup path syntax.
> I've reduced the number of colors so the image is a combination of 46
> layers/colors.
> Still, and as already pointed, the file is pretty heavy (649 ko/ca. 8400
> lines) so I cannot send it through the list.
> I'll send it anyway privately to Malte and Kieren who have shown interest
> for it but, of course, I'll send it to all of you on demand.
> Comments are welcome.
>
> Attached is a screen shot of the following test :
>
> \version "2.19.46"
> \include "logo.ily"
>
> %% Syntax is \markup\logo #size
> %% Test:
> \markup\logo #5
>
> If there are some interest, I'll try to draw an optional b/w logo
>
> HTH.
>
> Cheers,
> Pierre
>
>
> 2016-08-03 18:27 GMT+02:00 Malte Meyn :
>
>> Am 03.08.2016 um 18:07 schrieb Pierre-Luc Gauthier:
>>
>>> 2016-08-03 11:03 GMT-04:00 Andrew Bernard :
>>>
 The concept is fine I am sure, but the execution difficult, and
 acceptance
 problematical.

>>>
>> I know it’s difficult but does that mean one cannot try?
>>
>> Logo design is fraught with difficulty, and you will inevitably end up
 with
 something half the population does not like.

>>>
>> I think that might be realistic but not problematic. If someone doesn’t
>> like the logo, they don’t have to use it; of course it would be nice to
>> have something that is at least acceptable for most people.
>>
>> And this argument works also for the current logo (an image of a
>> waterlily flower, two leaves, and a score in the background): It’s a nice
>> picture, but I don’t like it as a logo because it cannot be used in print
>> (at least in small sizes).
>>
>> I agree,
>>> but since there already *is* a logo,
>>> wouldn't it be acceptable to "simply" make it a b/w vectorialised
>>> version of it?
>>>
>>
>> That would be nice but I doubt one can make a convincing b/w version of
>> that. Even if you leave out the background it’s a very complex image. And
>> even if you manage to make a b/w version of that it’s not usable at small
>> sizes.
>>
>>
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logo-gray.ily
Description: Binary data
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Re: LilyPond logo?

[bb]

If any logo, I prefer the b/w version! I never print music sheets with a 
colour printer.


Regards

Am 04.08.2016 um 13:17 schrieb Pierre Perol-Schneider:

Hi Malte, Hi All

Here's a first attempt to produce a vectorialised logo.
The file uses the new v2.19 markup path syntax.
I've reduced the number of colors so the image is a combination of 46 
layers/colors.
Still, and as already pointed, the file is pretty heavy (649 ko/ca. 
8400 lines) so I cannot send it through the list.
I'll send it anyway privately to Malte and Kieren who have shown 
interest for it but, of course, I'll send it to all of you on demand.

Comments are welcome.

Attached is a screen shot of the following test :

\version "2.19.46"
\include "logo.ily"

%% Syntax is \markup\logo #size
%% Test:
\markup\logo #5

If there are some interest, I'll try to draw an optional b/w logo

HTH.

Cheers,
Pierre


2016-08-03 18:27 GMT+02:00 Malte Meyn >:


Am 03.08.2016 um 18:07 schrieb Pierre-Luc Gauthier:

2016-08-03 11:03 GMT-04:00 Andrew Bernard
>:

The concept is fine I am sure, but the execution
difficult, and acceptance
problematical.


I know it’s difficult but does that mean one cannot try?

Logo design is fraught with difficulty, and you will
inevitably end up with
something half the population does not like.


I think that might be realistic but not problematic. If someone
doesn’t like the logo, they don’t have to use it; of course it
would be nice to have something that is at least acceptable for
most people.

And this argument works also for the current logo (an image of a
waterlily flower, two leaves, and a score in the background): It’s
a nice picture, but I don’t like it as a logo because it cannot be
used in print (at least in small sizes).

I agree,
but since there already *is* a logo,
wouldn't it be acceptable to "simply" make it a b/w vectorialised
version of it?


That would be nice but I doubt one can make a convincing b/w
version of that. Even if you leave out the background it’s a very
complex image. And even if you manage to make a b/w version of
that it’s not usable at small sizes.


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Re: LilyPond logo?

[Malte Meyn]

Am 03.08.2016 um 18:07 schrieb Pierre-Luc Gauthier:

2016-08-03 11:03 GMT-04:00 Andrew Bernard :

The concept is fine I am sure, but the execution difficult, and acceptance
problematical.


I know it’s difficult but does that mean one cannot try?


Logo design is fraught with difficulty, and you will inevitably end up with
something half the population does not like.


I think that might be realistic but not problematic. If someone doesn’t 
like the logo, they don’t have to use it; of course it would be nice to 
have something that is at least acceptable for most people.


And this argument works also for the current logo (an image of a 
waterlily flower, two leaves, and a score in the background): It’s a 
nice picture, but I don’t like it as a logo because it cannot be used in 
print (at least in small sizes).



I agree,
but since there already *is* a logo,
wouldn't it be acceptable to "simply" make it a b/w vectorialised
version of it?


That would be nice but I doubt one can make a convincing b/w version of 
that. Even if you leave out the background it’s a very complex image. 
And even if you manage to make a b/w version of that it’s not usable at 
small sizes.


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Re: LilyPond logo?

[Pierre-Luc Gauthier]

2016-08-03 11:03 GMT-04:00 Andrew Bernard :
> The concept is fine I am sure, but the execution difficult, and acceptance
> problematical.

So as with most artistic and identity related questions. :-(

> Logo design is fraught with difficulty, and you will inevitably end up with
> something half the population does not like.

I agree,
but since there already *is* a logo,
wouldn't it be acceptable to "simply" make it a b/w vectorialised
version of it?

-- 
Pierre-Luc Gauthier

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Re: LilyPond logo?

[Andrew Bernard]

Hi Malte,

The concept is fine I am sure, but the execution difficult, and acceptance
problematical. Take for example the massive amount of work that went into,
just by way of pertinent example, the Creative Commons logo:

https://creativecommons.org/2015/03/25/a-masterwork-in-simplicity-the-story-of-the-cc-logo/

Logo design is fraught with difficulty, and you will inevitably end up with
something half the population does not like - visual matters are very
personal (for example, I think the Creative Commons logo is appalling,
could have been designed by a child, and does nothing for me to enhance the
brand. But others think it is so wonderful they wear it on shirts and shave
it into their hair. Just goes to illustrate my point.)
Andrew




On 4 August 2016 at 12:13:42 AM, Malte Meyn wrote:

 But wouldn’t it be nice
to have an official b/w vector graphic as a logo for LilyPond? Any
opinions?
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Re: LilyPond logo?

[Malte Meyn]

Am 03.08.2016 um 16:13 schrieb Malte Meyn:

b/w vector graphic as a logo for LilyPond


This could also be part of the Feta font.
\markup \musicglyph #"logo.waterlily"

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Re: LilyPond logo?

[Kieren MacMillan]

Hi Malte,

> wouldn’t it be nice to have an official b/w vector graphic as a logo for 
> LilyPond? Any opinions?

I *love* this idea! Currently, the standard Colophon in all of my scores is


…but I would *love* to have a little Lilypond logo there!

Thanks!
Kieren.


Kieren MacMillan, composer
‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info
‣ email: i...@kierenmacmillan.info

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