Re: default midi velocity
2009/4/9 Martin Tarenskeen m.tarensk...@zonnet.nl:
On Wed, Apr 08, 2009 at 12:42:53AM +0100, Neil Puttock wrote:
2009/4/8 Martin Tarenskeen m.tarensk...@zonnet.nl:
Do you have git installed? It would be preferable to have a patch
created with git format-patch.
I have attached such a patch.
From 8cb3d025d08f08437f22c9ab3d5a4b35996de167 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: Martin Tarenskeen m.tarensk...@zonnet.nl
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 10:34:42 +0200
Subject: [PATCH] Default MIDI Note-On/Off velocity output.
Note-On: velocity=127 lowered to 90 = mezzoforte
Note-Off: common practice in the MIDI world is to
use Note-On messages with velocity=0 instead.
---
lily/midi-item.cc | 11 ---
1 files changed, 4 insertions(+), 7 deletions(-)
diff --git a/lily/midi-item.cc b/lily/midi-item.cc
index b683821..162bf34 100644
--- a/lily/midi-item.cc
+++ b/lily/midi-item.cc
@@ -169,7 +169,7 @@ Midi_time_signature::to_string () const
Midi_note::Midi_note (Audio_note *a)
{
audio_ = a;
- dynamic_byte_ = 0x7f;
+ dynamic_byte_ = 0x5a;
}
@@ -225,17 +225,14 @@ Midi_note_off::Midi_note_off (Midi_note *n)
on_ = n;
channel_ = n-channel_;
- // Anybody who hears any difference, or knows how this works?
- // 0 should definitely be avoided, notes stick on some sound cards.
- // 64 is supposed to be neutral
-
- aftertouch_byte_ = 64;
+ // use note_on with velocity=0 instead of note_off
+ aftertouch_byte_ = 0;
}
string
Midi_note_off::to_string () const
{
- Byte status_byte = (char) (0x80 + channel_);
+ Byte status_byte = (char) (0x90 + channel_);
string str = ::to_string ((char)status_byte);
str += ::to_string ((char) (get_semitone_pitch () + Midi_note::c0_pitch_));
--
1.6.0.6
Thanks, it's applied.
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Re: default midi velocity
On Mon, Apr 06, 2009 at 09:50:17AM +0200, Martin Tarenskeen wrote: Patch attached for those who want to try. I was wondering what the experts think of my suggested patches to change Lilypond's MID output behaviour: Current: default MIDI Note On velocity value of 127 Proposed: default MIDI Note On velocity value of 90 Current: default MIDI Note Off velocity value of 64 Proposed: MIDI Note On message with velocity=0 used as (pseudo-) Note Off message. This is the normal method in the MIDI world. (My patch was attached to my previous posting in this thead.) -- Martin Tarenskeen ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: default midi velocity
2009/4/7 Martin Tarenskeen m.tarensk...@zonnet.nl:
On Mon, Apr 06, 2009 at 09:50:17AM +0200, Martin Tarenskeen wrote:
Patch attached for those who want to try.
I was wondering what the experts think of my suggested patches to
change Lilypond's MID output behaviour:
Current: default MIDI Note On velocity value of 127
Proposed: default MIDI Note On velocity value of 90
Current: default MIDI Note Off velocity value of 64
Proposed: MIDI Note On message with velocity=0 used as (pseudo-) Note
Off message. This is the normal method in the MIDI world.
I'm no midi expert, but your changes look (and sound) fine to me.
Some suggestions for your patch:
+ // dynamic_byte_ = 0x7f;
You can remove this.
@@ -229,13 +230,14 @@
// 0 should definitely be avoided, notes stick on some sound cards.
// 64 is supposed to be neutral
These comments should also be removed.
+ // proposed patch: use note_on with velocity=0 instead of note_off
Remove `proposed patch:'
string
Midi_note_off::to_string () const
{
- Byte status_byte = (char) (0x80 + channel_);
+ Byte status_byte = (char) (0x90 + channel_); //use note_on velocity=0
I don't think a comment's necessary here if it's mentioned above.
Do you have git installed? It would be preferable to have a patch
created with git format-patch.
Regards,
Neil
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Re: default midi velocity
On Sun, Apr 05, 2009 at 11:04:09PM +0200, Martin Tarenskeen wrote:
diff -ur lilypond-2.13.0.orig/lily/midi-item.cc
lilypond-2.13.0/lily/midi-item.cc
--- lilypond-2.13.0.orig/lily/midi-item.cc2009-04-05 21:11:25.0
+0200
+++ lilypond-2.13.0/lily/midi-item.cc 2009-04-05 21:17:43.0 +0200
@@ -169,7 +169,8 @@
Midi_note::Midi_note (Audio_note *a)
{
audio_ = a;
- dynamic_byte_ = 0x7f;
+ dynamic_byte_ = 0x5a;
+ // dynamic_byte_ = 0x7f;
}
In lily/midi-item.cc I saw this:
quote
Midi_note_off::Midi_note_off (Midi_note *n)
: Midi_note (n-audio_)
{
on_ = n;
channel_ = n-channel_;
// Anybody who hears any difference, or knows how this works?
// 0 should definitely be avoided, notes stick on some sound cards.
// 64 is supposed to be neutral
aftertouch_byte_ = 64;
}
unquote
I can try to answer the question in the // comment lines.
As I told you earlier, Midi Note Off message are not used very often in
the MIDI world. A more widely spread message is to use Midi Note On
messages with a velocity value=0 to end notes.
Note Off Velocity is something special. The idea is to registrate not
only how hard a key (I'm talking about a MIDI keyboard now) is hit, but
also how fast it is released at the end of a note. I have only once seen
a synthesizer that made use of this feature. It was an old AKAI
synthesizer that used Note Off Velocity to control the Envelope
Generator's release parameter of a Strings patch. In other words: If you
released the keys quickly, the sound would stop directly. If
you you released the keys slowly, the sound would fade-out
slowly after the key was released. It required some practicing to make
this work properly though. For most synths/soundcards/soundmodules
Note-Off is identical to Note-On with velocity=0.
I propose to change Lilypond's current behaviour to let it use Note-On
messages with velocity=0 instead of Note-Off messages with velocity=64.
I have attached a patch that changes this. The code can be even more
simplified I think. ( The Note-Off code is now identical to the Note-On
code, only the velocity value differs: 90=ON 00=OFF ). But I'm afraid to
break something if I change too much lines of code. Maybe someone else
who is more familiar with the code in mid-item.cc can think about it.
Patch attached for those who want to try.
--
Martin Tarenskeen
diff -ur lilypond-2.13.0.orig/lily/midi-item.cc
lilypond-2.13.0/lily/midi-item.cc
--- lilypond-2.13.0.orig/lily/midi-item.cc 2009-04-05 21:11:25.0
+0200
+++ lilypond-2.13.0/lily/midi-item.cc 2009-04-06 09:24:09.0 +0200
@@ -169,7 +169,8 @@
Midi_note::Midi_note (Audio_note *a)
{
audio_ = a;
- dynamic_byte_ = 0x7f;
+ dynamic_byte_ = 0x5a;
+ // dynamic_byte_ = 0x7f;
}
@@ -229,13 +230,14 @@
// 0 should definitely be avoided, notes stick on some sound cards.
// 64 is supposed to be neutral
- aftertouch_byte_ = 64;
+ // proposed patch: use note_on with velocity=0 instead of note_off
+ aftertouch_byte_ = 0;
}
string
Midi_note_off::to_string () const
{
- Byte status_byte = (char) (0x80 + channel_);
+ Byte status_byte = (char) (0x90 + channel_); //use note_on velocity=0
string str = ::to_string ((char)status_byte);
str += ::to_string ((char) (get_semitone_pitch () + Midi_note::c0_pitch_));
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Re: default midi velocity
On Sun, Apr 05, 2009 at 10:37:08PM +0200, Martin Tarenskeen wrote: Just some thoughts about MIDI. Now let's make beautiful scores again using Lilypond. If you want a default velocity of 90 instead of 127: patch attached. Ooops. I forgot to attach my patch. -- Martin Tarenskeen ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: default midi velocity
Carl D. Sorensen wrote: Yes, it's probably a good idea. In scm/midi.scm, there is the following: ;; 90 == 90/127 == 0.71 is supposed to be the default value ;; urg: we should set this at start of track (define-public dynamic-default-volume 0.71) As far as I can see, this setting isn't used anywhere in the source code. /Mats ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: default midi velocity
( My mail client is doing strange things ... this is another attempt to
send my message to the mailing list )
On Sat, Apr 04, 2009 at 08:05:17PM -0600, Carl D. Sorensen wrote:
Anybody willing to take this on as a patch? It shouldn't be too
hard, but I imagine it'll take some time grepping through the
source files.
If we agree that it's just a case of changing the default velocity,
then this is ideally suited to a Frog; on the other hand, it would be
great to be able to set the default volume in a \midi block, but that
looks much more complicated.
I agree.
But the specific request was to have the default value be mf, which I
think
should be a not-too-difficult task.
I patched my copy of lilypond and now have a default velocity of 90
instead of 127 (patch attached). I like this better.
But I also discovered things are a bit more complicated. In MIDI there
are 2 totally different ways to control dynamics:
1. Midi Control Change #7 ( Volume control )
2. Note On Velocity
Option 1 is used by lilypond to translate \pp \mf \cresendo etcetera.
Option 2 is set to 127 by default.
If I record playing my digital piano in a midi sequencer my dynamics are
written in midi velocity values. This sounds different than using
Control Change messages. I can explain this: If I hit the keys harder,
not only the volume changes but also the brightness of the tone. This is
accomplished using different sample layers and/or filters in a digital
piano to mimic the sound of a real piano. This effect is re-produced
using the Velocity values in the MIDI information.
A Midi Volume Control Change can be compared to turning the volume knob
or using the sliders on a mixing console: The volume changes, but
without the effect of the changing color of the sound.
That is why dynamics that are written in a MIDI file produced directly
by lilypond don't sound as natural and realistic as is possible using
MIDI. Imagine recording a piano player who plays everything ff, and the
recording engineer takes care of the dynamics using the sliders of the
mixing console. Not quite the real thing ;-)
Just some thoughts about MIDI.
Now let's make beautiful scores again using Lilypond.
If you want a default velocity of 90 instead of 127: patch attached.
--
Martin Tarenskeen
diff -ur lilypond-2.13.0.orig/lily/midi-item.cc lilypond-2.13.0/lily/midi-item.cc
--- lilypond-2.13.0.orig/lily/midi-item.cc 2009-04-05 21:11:25.0 +0200
+++ lilypond-2.13.0/lily/midi-item.cc 2009-04-05 21:17:43.0 +0200
@@ -169,7 +169,8 @@
Midi_note::Midi_note (Audio_note *a)
{
audio_ = a;
- dynamic_byte_ = 0x7f;
+ dynamic_byte_ = 0x5a;
+ // dynamic_byte_ = 0x7f;
}
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Re: default midi velocity
On 4/5/09 2:42 PM, Mats Bengtsson mats.bengts...@ee.kth.se wrote: Carl D. Sorensen wrote: Yes, it's probably a good idea. In scm/midi.scm, there is the following: ;; 90 == 90/127 == 0.71 is supposed to be the default value ;; urg: we should set this at start of track (define-public dynamic-default-volume 0.71) As far as I can see, this setting isn't used anywhere in the source code. /Mats That's what I assumed the urg was for. dynamic-default-volume is set but never used. Carl ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: default midi velocity
2009/4/3 Carl D. Sorensen c_soren...@byu.edu: Anybody willing to take this on as a patch? It shouldn't be too hard, but I imagine it'll take some time grepping through the source files. If we agree that it's just a case of changing the default velocity, then this is ideally suited to a Frog; on the other hand, it would be great to be able to set the default volume in a \midi block, but that looks much more complicated. Regards, Neil ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: default midi velocity
On 4/4/09 4:21 PM, Neil Puttock n.putt...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/4/3 Carl D. Sorensen c_soren...@byu.edu: Anybody willing to take this on as a patch? It shouldn't be too hard, but I imagine it'll take some time grepping through the source files. If we agree that it's just a case of changing the default velocity, then this is ideally suited to a Frog; on the other hand, it would be great to be able to set the default volume in a \midi block, but that looks much more complicated. I agree. But the specific request was to have the default value be mf, which I think should be a not-too-difficult task. Carl ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
default midi velocity
Hi, I have created an arrangement for 4 pianos. My score does not contain any dynamics markings. Now I have noticed that in the MIDI output all notes have the maximum Note-On midi-velocity value of 127! With 4 piano's this gives a LOT of noise. Another thing I have noticed: Lilypond uses real MIDI Note Off commands to end notes with a default Note-Off-velocity value of 64. Note Off commands have always existed in the Midi Specification but are rarely used in the MIDI world. Almost every MIDI soft- and hardware that I have seen uses Note On commands with velocity=0. No big deal, it just surprised me. Questions: 1. How can I change the default MIDI velocity from 127 to a more modest value, without adding dynamic marks in the printable score ? 2. Shouldn't it be a good idea to lower midi-velocity values for lilypond's MIDI output by default ? In other words: If no dynamics are specified, shouldn't the default be mezzoforte ? ( BTW: I'm using Lilypond 2.13.0 on Fedora 10 ) -- Martin Tarenskeen ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: default midi velocity
On 2 Apr 2009, at 09:52, Martin Tarenskeen wrote: 1. How can I change the default MIDI velocity from 127 to a more modest value, without adding dynamic marks in the printable score ? 2. Shouldn't it be a good idea to lower midi-velocity values for lilypond's MIDI output by default ? In other words: If no dynamics are specified, shouldn't the default be mezzoforte ? I think MIDI is underdeveloped in LilyPond, and part of the reason is that it is not a suitable audio format. The question pops up every now and then, see for example: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-lilypond/2009-03/msg00090.html Hans ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: default midi velocity
On Thu, Apr 02, 2009 at 10:43:10AM +0200, Hans Aberg wrote: On 2 Apr 2009, at 09:52, Martin Tarenskeen wrote: 1. How can I change the default MIDI velocity from 127 to a more modest value, without adding dynamic marks in the printable score ? 2. Shouldn't it be a good idea to lower midi-velocity values for lilypond's MIDI output by default ? In other words: If no dynamics are specified, shouldn't the default be mezzoforte ? I think MIDI is underdeveloped in LilyPond, and part of the reason is that it is not a suitable audio format. I don't agree. For test-hearing scores it is THE suitable format. (strictly speaking, I think MIDI is not an audio format.) I also think MIDI has low priority for Lilypond's developers team. The recent discussion about also midi2ly confirms this. I also use ABC and MUP for scorewriting from time to time. If I compare these with Lilypond: Mup has pretty good features to insert all kinds of MIDI commands inside the score. For abc the special features offered by abc2midi are kind of unique and funny. ( Like automatic performance of guitar chords. Nice for test-hearing lead sheets :-) ) The main task of Lilypond should always be to produce beautiful scores. I just don't want to blow up my speakers if I forget to turn down the volume on my amplifier when I play a MIDI file to test my score with 4 piano's constantly playing fff ! -- Martin ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: default midi velocity
On 2 Apr 2009, at 11:21, Martin Tarenskeen wrote: I think MIDI is underdeveloped in LilyPond, and part of the reason is that it is not a suitable audio format. (strictly speaking, I think MIDI is not an audio format.) Audio generation format might be better. I don't agree. For test-hearing scores it is THE suitable format. I also think MIDI has low priority for Lilypond's developers team. Anyway, some of the reasons were given in that link you snipped out. Hans ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
default midi velocity
Martin Tarenskeen writes:
Questions:
1. How can I change the default MIDI velocity from 127 to a more modest
value, without adding dynamic marks in the printable score ?
How about this:
music = \relative c' {
c' d e f
}
\score {
\music
\layout{}
}
\score {
\new Score {
s\mf
\music
}
\midi{}
}
2. Shouldn't it be a good idea to lower midi-velocity values for
lilypond's MIDI output by default ? In other words: If no dynamics are
specified, shouldn't the default be mezzoforte ?
Yes, it's probably a good idea. In scm/midi.scm, there is the following:
;; 90 == 90/127 == 0.71 is supposed to be the default value
;; urg: we should set this at start of track
(define-public dynamic-default-volume 0.71)
So somebody in the coding recognizes this needs to be fixed. Unfortunately,
I couldn't see how to do this in a few minutes of searching through the
source.
Anybody willing to take this on as a patch? It shouldn't be too hard, but I
imagine it'll take some time grepping through the source files.
Carl
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