Re: how to enter notes quickly (midi keyboard available)
What do you think about talking out the score in lilypond style..so you wouldnt have to switch eyes between screen and sheet..for example..: c 8 f 16 c 4 . ( d 8 d d | and than a script to fix it: c8 f16 c4. ( d8 d d | but i think that voice recognition is not well suported on linux..i think you would only need to read it one time out loud.. On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 4:28 AM, Vaughan McAlley vaug...@mcalley.net.auwrote: On 26 May 2012 03:28, Klaus Föhl klaus.fo...@uni-giessen.de wrote: Hello, I like the lilypond notation using \relative being concise and readable. Entering on a computer keyboard is fairly quick, but still it feels that playing a melody line would be so much quicker. In particular if one does not have a typing c4 d e f g1 style but c4 d4. e8 f8. g16 c,1 What better methods exist? For example I have looked into rosegarden output. Minor issue:the output is not in relative notation. More cumbersome are slightly non-aligned notes to the beat (me being an imperfect human) and in particular varying note lengths introducing rests where the music and the audible sound both have none. I have seen techniques where the pitch is via piano keyboard and rhythm is via computer keyboard. I am not fully convinced. I have seen a custom-designed computer keyboard that combines pitch and duration. It might work well after a learning curve. What I am tempted is to take midi file information (i.e. gunzip a.rg), or the rosegarden ly output and reverse-engineer it into event lists. Whatever the detail: only piano-keyboard input and get both pitch and length. Then to apply some smart quantisation. For one thing notes like c1 are much more likely than c2... or alignment with bars is probable, aspects that require some adaptive rules, possibly some parameter training. Also the routine should pick up and follow the meter as played, as opposed to techniques providing the rigid mentronome frame. Well, before I reinvent the wheel myself: are such things already out there? Cheers Klaus ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user I have written a script that copies (and improves on) Finale's Simple Note Entry. My left hand is on my MIDI keyboard, and almost everything I want to do is on the numeric keypad. So I hold down a note or chord on the keyboard, and press 4 (crochet), and something like g4 will be virtually typed. Because I mostly enter renaissance music, most things I want to type (in normal circumstances) are available on the numeric keypad. The other advantage is that I hear the pitches as they are entered, and the script takes care of note names and octaves. The downside is that I wrote it for Mac using CoreMIDI and Cocoa, as I had a little knowledge in this area. I've tried to make the main script platform-agnostic, in that input is a MIDI packet or keystroke, and output is the same MIDI packet (for MIDI thru), and virtual keystrokes if appropriate. I still have to 'manually' translate ASCII codes into Mac keyboard strokes as I can't work out how to do this in Cocoa. I briefly investigated making it more portable, but didn't want to go through the pain of working out how to process MIDI and keystrokes again. My script is in Lua, and contains all the logic for converting MIDI to \relative. If anyone is interested, there is an XCode project here: https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B0YNwfxb13ZcWmY0Uy12T3ctVW8 The script is in /LuaScripts It runs on my Intel iMac with Snow Leopard, don't about any other OSs. If anyone is interested and knows about portable keystrokes and MIDI, I would be happy to discuss adapting the script for them. Vaughan ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user -- *Nesmotren govori kao da mačem probada, a jezik je mudrih iscjeljenje. Izreke 12:18* ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: how to enter notes quickly (midi keyboard available)
On 26 May 2012 03:28, Klaus Föhl klaus.fo...@uni-giessen.de wrote: Hello, I like the lilypond notation using \relative being concise and readable. Entering on a computer keyboard is fairly quick, but still it feels that playing a melody line would be so much quicker. In particular if one does not have a typing c4 d e f g1 style but c4 d4. e8 f8. g16 c,1 What better methods exist? For example I have looked into rosegarden output. Minor issue:the output is not in relative notation. More cumbersome are slightly non-aligned notes to the beat (me being an imperfect human) and in particular varying note lengths introducing rests where the music and the audible sound both have none. I have seen techniques where the pitch is via piano keyboard and rhythm is via computer keyboard. I am not fully convinced. I have seen a custom-designed computer keyboard that combines pitch and duration. It might work well after a learning curve. What I am tempted is to take midi file information (i.e. gunzip a.rg), or the rosegarden ly output and reverse-engineer it into event lists. Whatever the detail: only piano-keyboard input and get both pitch and length. Then to apply some smart quantisation. For one thing notes like c1 are much more likely than c2... or alignment with bars is probable, aspects that require some adaptive rules, possibly some parameter training. Also the routine should pick up and follow the meter as played, as opposed to techniques providing the rigid mentronome frame. Well, before I reinvent the wheel myself: are such things already out there? Cheers Klaus ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user I have written a script that copies (and improves on) Finale’s Simple Note Entry. My left hand is on my MIDI keyboard, and almost everything I want to do is on the numeric keypad. So I hold down a note or chord on the keyboard, and press 4 (crochet), and something like g4 will be virtually typed. Because I mostly enter renaissance music, most things I want to type (in normal circumstances) are available on the numeric keypad. The other advantage is that I hear the pitches as they are entered, and the script takes care of note names and octaves. The downside is that I wrote it for Mac using CoreMIDI and Cocoa, as I had a little knowledge in this area. I’ve tried to make the main script platform-agnostic, in that input is a MIDI packet or keystroke, and output is the same MIDI packet (for MIDI thru), and virtual keystrokes if appropriate. I still have to ‘manually’ translate ASCII codes into Mac keyboard strokes as I can’t work out how to do this in Cocoa. I briefly investigated making it more portable, but didn’t want to go through the pain of working out how to process MIDI and keystrokes again. My script is in Lua, and contains all the logic for converting MIDI to \relative. If anyone is interested, there is an XCode project here: https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B0YNwfxb13ZcWmY0Uy12T3ctVW8 The script is in /LuaScripts It runs on my Intel iMac with Snow Leopard, don’t about any other OSs. If anyone is interested and knows about portable keystrokes and MIDI, I would be happy to discuss adapting the script for them. Vaughan ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: how to enter notes quickly (midi keyboard available)
On Fri, May 25, 2012 at 11:28 AM, Klaus Föhl klaus.fo...@uni-giessen.dewrote: Hello, I like the lilypond notation using \relative being concise and readable. Entering on a computer keyboard is fairly quick, but still it feels that playing a melody line would be so much quicker. In particular if one does not have a typing c4 d e f g1 style but c4 d4. e8 f8. g16 c,1 What better methods exist? Better will depend on your preference, but LilyPondTool offers midi input without any additional dependencies: http://lilypondtool.organum.hu/fileadmin/lilypondtool/docs/ch06s01.html I have written a MIDI input plugin for jEdit that does no more than listen for MIDI pitches and type them as relative pitches in your preferred language, interpreted according to the tonality you set: http://musicbyandrew.ca/MidiInput.jar The durations and all other text are entered on the computer keyboard, which is not entirely convenient, but I find it helpful when there is a high ratio of pitches to duration changes (e.g. many Bach keyboard works): http://musicbyandrew.ca/finale-lilypond-4.html It is also helpful when there are large skips and I don't want to mentally compute the relative octave indications. I've gone back to plain old typing because my MIDI keyboard is not currently close to the computer, I'm not writing Bach, and the development version (2.15) supports 'q' as a way of repeating an entire previous chord, e.g. c e g16 q q q. Maybe someday the computer will be able to see or hear the music in my head and type it out ... no, scratch that. Mind-reading computers doesn't sounds like a good idea at all: we're trying to keep the humans in charge of this place, after all! Andrew ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: how to enter notes quickly (midi keyboard available)
Andrew Hawryluk ahawry...@gmail.com writes: Maybe someday the computer will be able to see or hear the music in my head and type it out ... no, scratch that. Mind-reading computers doesn't sounds like a good idea at all: we're trying to keep the humans in charge of this place, after all! I have no problems with mind-reading fingers. They leave me perfectly well in charge. In fact, more so than I would be without them. It would be more worrisome if we had mind-writing computers. -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: how to enter notes quickly (midi keyboard available)
Am 26.05.2012 18:46, schrieb David Kastrup: Andrew Hawrylukahawry...@gmail.com writes: Maybe someday the computer will be able to see or hear the music in my head and type it out ... no, scratch that. Mind-reading computers doesn't sounds like a good idea at all: we're trying to keep the humans in charge of this place, after all! I have no problems with mind-reading fingers. They leave me perfectly well in charge. In fact, more so than I would be without them. It would be more worrisome if we had mind-writing computers. :-) ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: how to enter notes quickly (midi keyboard available)
midi2ly, obviously. It sucks royally for human-created input. Look up Viterbi decoders and/or hidden Markov chains for a plan how to do better. So far I have mentally broken down the task into two main chunks: 1) establish the maths function/relation recording time versus music piece time 2) transform the note durations into something sensible While item two would in principle use the information from item two, my personal experience is that note_off/duration is usually less accurate than note_start_timing. My personal approach would be to let Emacs record notes and timings via Midi, and display just the notes without duration. You manually place bar checks, and it then calculates the durations in between. If you have typos in between, you just delete them before quantizing the measure, and they are taken out including the time they took. So you would store the timing in a non-screen-visible location? Fair enough. If that were to work to not bar-check every single bar but optionally only start and end of a 4, 6, 8, in general n-measure phrase than that would give you a lean workflow. When it gets more complicated, you shorten bar-check intervals. That would seem like an efficient workflow to me, without much of a bad impact of playing errors and uneven timing: the consequences are local. Well, at the start I thought of supplying initial conditions, but the boundary conditions approach promises to be better in stability. Of course, this is purely hypothetical for now, but it seems like a good plan for somebody (TM) to implement. To establish the main wise quantisation algorithm, including externally accessible tuning/adjusting parameters. Cheers Klaus ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: how to enter notes quickly (midi keyboard available)
Klaus Föhl klaus.fo...@uni-giessen.de writes: midi2ly, obviously. It sucks royally for human-created input. Look up Viterbi decoders and/or hidden Markov chains for a plan how to do better. So far I have mentally broken down the task into two main chunks: 1) establish the maths function/relation recording time versus music piece time 2) transform the note durations into something sensible While item two would in principle use the information from item two, my personal experience is that note_off/duration is usually less accurate than note_start_timing. My personal approach would be to let Emacs record notes and timings via Midi, and display just the notes without duration. You manually place bar checks, and it then calculates the durations in between. If you have typos in between, you just delete them before quantizing the measure, and they are taken out including the time they took. So you would store the timing in a non-screen-visible location? Fair enough. It would be a text property (you want to have it follow copypaste). And mouse-over could give a guess. But I would think that it would be distracting if the stuff would flicker around while you are doing note entry. If that were to work to not bar-check every single bar but optionally only start and end of a 4, 6, 8, in general n-measure phrase than that would give you a lean workflow. When it gets more complicated, you shorten bar-check intervals. It would not necessarily be required to tell: it should be reasonably workable to guess how many measures are in between once the editor has got the hang of the timing. That would seem like an efficient workflow to me, without much of a bad impact of playing errors and uneven timing: the consequences are local. Well, at the start I thought of supplying initial conditions, but the boundary conditions approach promises to be better in stability. Whatever approach you choose, I think it important to be able to pepper additional quantization information in between where required, without prescribing a rigid workflow. You basically want to _converge_ to the right solution using the provided help on the fly. To establish the main wise quantisation algorithm, including externally accessible tuning/adjusting parameters. I think that painless interactivity beats smart batch mode in this case. Your mileage may differ with an excellent sightreading keyboard player playing to a rhythm computer. But I know that when I do a recording (for Youtube etc) it takes a _lot_ of takes until I get something half-way decent. And it would be stupid to have one measure of junk ruin the whole take, when you can just delete it with the editor. Of course, you also need to be able to replay sound, to figure out where the junk is sitting. The main thing, in my opinion, is the smoothness of editing/correction/clue providing interactivity. If you get that right, pretty good for the quantization will work fine. You can also do things like show hand-entered durations in a definite color, and derived durations shaded. You can validate the derived stuff and it become definitive. And so on. You don't type a whole article in one piece, and retype from the beginning if you made a mistake. So why expect this from music entry? -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: how to enter notes quickly (midi keyboard available)
On Fri, 25 May 2012 17:28:02 + (UTC) Klaus Föhl klaus.fo...@uni-giessen.de wrote: Hello, I like the lilypond notation using \relative being concise and readable. Entering on a computer keyboard is fairly quick, but still it feels that playing a melody line would be so much quicker. In particular if one does not have a typing c4 d e f g1 style but c4 d4. e8 f8. g16 c,1 What better methods exist? For example I have looked into rosegarden output. Minor issue:the output is not in relative notation. More cumbersome are slightly non-aligned notes to the beat (me being an imperfect human) and in particular varying note lengths introducing rests where the music and the audible sound both have none. I have seen techniques where the pitch is via piano keyboard and rhythm is via computer keyboard. I am not fully convinced. I have seen a custom-designed computer keyboard that combines pitch and duration. It might work well after a learning curve. What I am tempted is to take midi file information (i.e. gunzip a.rg), or the rosegarden ly output and reverse-engineer it into event lists. Whatever the detail: only piano-keyboard input and get both pitch and length. Then to apply some smart quantisation. For one thing notes like c1 are much more likely than c2... or alignment with bars is probable, aspects that require some adaptive rules, possibly some parameter training. Also the routine should pick up and follow the meter as played, as opposed to techniques providing the rigid mentronome frame. Well, before I reinvent the wheel myself: are such things already out there? Cheers Klaus There are some GUIs that make it easier to use actual notes to create Lilypond files. How well they perform.. I'll leave this discussion to other people. Nils ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
how to enter notes quickly (midi keyboard available)
Hello, I like the lilypond notation using \relative being concise and readable. Entering on a computer keyboard is fairly quick, but still it feels that playing a melody line would be so much quicker. In particular if one does not have a typing c4 d e f g1 style but c4 d4. e8 f8. g16 c,1 What better methods exist? For example I have looked into rosegarden output. Minor issue:the output is not in relative notation. More cumbersome are slightly non-aligned notes to the beat (me being an imperfect human) and in particular varying note lengths introducing rests where the music and the audible sound both have none. I have seen techniques where the pitch is via piano keyboard and rhythm is via computer keyboard. I am not fully convinced. I have seen a custom-designed computer keyboard that combines pitch and duration. It might work well after a learning curve. What I am tempted is to take midi file information (i.e. gunzip a.rg), or the rosegarden ly output and reverse-engineer it into event lists. Whatever the detail: only piano-keyboard input and get both pitch and length. Then to apply some smart quantisation. For one thing notes like c1 are much more likely than c2... or alignment with bars is probable, aspects that require some adaptive rules, possibly some parameter training. Also the routine should pick up and follow the meter as played, as opposed to techniques providing the rigid mentronome frame. Well, before I reinvent the wheel myself: are such things already out there? Cheers Klaus ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: how to enter notes quickly (midi keyboard available)
Klaus Föhl klaus.fo...@uni-giessen.de writes: Hello, I like the lilypond notation using \relative being concise and readable. Entering on a computer keyboard is fairly quick, but still it feels that playing a melody line would be so much quicker. In particular if one does not have a typing c4 d e f g1 style but c4 d4. e8 f8. g16 c,1 What better methods exist? For example I have looked into rosegarden output. Minor issue:the output is not in relative notation. There are several conversion tools. Frescobaldi is likely one with a low level of entry pain. What I am tempted is to take midi file information (i.e. gunzip a.rg), or the rosegarden ly output and reverse-engineer it into event lists. Whatever the detail: only piano-keyboard input and get both pitch and length. Then to apply some smart quantisation. For one thing notes like c1 are much more likely than c2... or alignment with bars is probable, aspects that require some adaptive rules, possibly some parameter training. Also the routine should pick up and follow the meter as played, as opposed to techniques providing the rigid mentronome frame. Well, before I reinvent the wheel myself: are such things already out there? midi2ly, obviously. It sucks royally for human-created input. Look up Viterbi decoders and/or hidden Markov chains for a plan how to do better. My personal approach would be to let Emacs record notes and timings via Midi, and display just the notes without duration. You manually place bar checks, and it then calculates the durations in between. If you have typos in between, you just delete them before quantizing the measure, and they are taken out including the time they took. That would seem like an efficient workflow to me, without much of a bad impact of playing errors and uneven timing: the consequences are local. Of course, this is purely hypothetical for now, but it seems like a good plan for somebody (TM) to implement. -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: how to enter notes quickly (midi keyboard available)
From: Klaus Föhl I like the lilypond notation using \relative being concise and readable. Entering on a computer keyboard is fairly quick, but still it feels that playing a melody line would be so much quicker. In particular if one does not have a typing c4 d e f g1 style but c4 d4. e8 f8. g16 c,1 What better methods exist? I don't know if this would help you, but Nicholas Sceaux wrote an interesting script to save keystrokes on emacs. Looks like he hasn't updated it in a while, so it may require some tweaking, but you can see it in action here: http://nicolas.sceaux.free.fr/lilypond/lyqi.avi Here's what looks like the manual for all this: http://nicolas.sceaux.free.fr/lilypond/lyqi.outdated.html You can browse other related files here: http://nicolas.sceaux.free.fr/lilypond/ Hope this helps. - Mark ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
