Re: Other migration problems (was Unable to login with ssh)

[Grzegorz Powiedziuk]

>From what Alan and Mark said, I understand that not working ssh might have
been just a small result of bigger problem - data corruption. So
practically anything else might go wrong too.
Gregory

2016-06-29 14:01 GMT-04:00 Duerbusch, Tom :

> I didn't want to hijack the original thread so
>
> The conclusion on the original thread was that you need to be on a
> supported release of Suse when you go to a new z13.  This involved SSH and
> I assume crypto hardware.
>
> We have been planing to go to a z13 this year.
> I've said that many times before as we are on a z890, and have planed to go
> to a z9, z10, z114, z12 and now z13.
>
> We have SLES 9, SLES 10 and SLES 11 running.
> (After WAVV in 2011, I did manage to sunset our SLES 7 and SLES 8 guests)
>
> I'm ok with not being able to use new features/functions that are on a
> z13/zVM 6, on the unsupported software, but I'm now concerned about what I
> might loose, or crash with the new hardware.
>
> SSH isn't much of a problem, as there are so few people that actually log
> on to Linux or use SSH with Linux applications.
>
> So, the question is:
> Is there any other problems that others have come across, when migrating
> unsupported SLES systems to a z13?
>
> Thanks
>
> Tom Duerbusch
> THD Consulting
>
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>
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Re: Unable to login with ssh

[Alan Altmark]

On Wednesday, 06/29/2016 at 04:58 GMT, "van Sleeuwen, Berry" 
 wrote:
> There is a first for everything, this is the first time in 20+ years I 
have
> such problems with unsupported versions on new hardware. Up until last 
year we even ran VSE 2.2 in
> a z10. And we have always has older (unsupported) Linux systems on more 
recent hardware (SLES8/9 on
> z10).

I include here by reference, all of my previous posts on the subject of 
"support".  When an OS isn't supported, it means that (a) it failed during 
testing, or (b) it wasn't tested.

In either case, you are exposed to risk.  Time to tighten up your OS 
lifecycle management process.  Having current maintenance and support is 
an important element of high availability.

Alan Altmark

Senior Managing z/VM and Linux Consultant
Lab Services System z Delivery Practice
IBM Systems & Technology Group
ibm.com/systems/services/labservices
office: 607.429.3323
mobile; 607.321.7556
alan_altm...@us.ibm.com
IBM Endicott

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Other migration problems (was Unable to login with ssh)

[Duerbusch, Tom]

I didn't want to hijack the original thread so

The conclusion on the original thread was that you need to be on a
supported release of Suse when you go to a new z13.  This involved SSH and
I assume crypto hardware.

We have been planing to go to a z13 this year.
I've said that many times before as we are on a z890, and have planed to go
to a z9, z10, z114, z12 and now z13.

We have SLES 9, SLES 10 and SLES 11 running.
(After WAVV in 2011, I did manage to sunset our SLES 7 and SLES 8 guests)

I'm ok with not being able to use new features/functions that are on a
z13/zVM 6, on the unsupported software, but I'm now concerned about what I
might loose, or crash with the new hardware.

SSH isn't much of a problem, as there are so few people that actually log
on to Linux or use SSH with Linux applications.

So, the question is:
Is there any other problems that others have come across, when migrating
unsupported SLES systems to a z13?

Thanks

Tom Duerbusch
THD Consulting

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Re: Unable to login with ssh

[Alan Altmark]

On Wednesday, 06/29/2016 at 04:17 GMT, Mark Post  wrote:
> >>> On 6/29/2016 at 05:42 AM, "van Sleeuwen, Berry" 

> wrote:
> > A few months ago we have moved to a z13 and zVM 6.3. All machines were 
moved
> > successfully. But we now have problems with SLES10 SP4 machines.
>
> Ah, this is most likely the cause of your problem.  Because SLES10 was 
EOL (and we don't have a
> z13), we didn't test it on a z13.  IBM, however, has told us to expect 
problems with data
> corruption/loss in such an environment.

If your OS doesn't support the z13, don't run it on the z13.  Depending on 
your z13 hw configuration, any operating system that does not explicitly 
support the z13 will very likely fail.  It could be a noisy abend, a hang, 
or silent data corruption.  The only solution is to upgrade the OS to a 
supported level.

One of my clients hit this when they went to GA2 and upgraded to a bigger 
model.

Alan Altmark

Senior Managing z/VM and Linux Consultant
Lab Services System z Delivery Practice
IBM Systems & Technology Group
ibm.com/systems/services/labservices
office: 607.429.3323
mobile; 607.321.7556
alan_altm...@us.ibm.com
IBM Endicott

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Re: Unable to login with ssh

[Mark Post]

>>> On 6/29/2016 at 12:57 PM, "van Sleeuwen, Berry" 
wrote: 
> Hi Mark,
> 
> I was afraid of that. There is a first for everything, this is the first 
> time in 20+ years I have such problems with unsupported versions on new 
> hardware. Up until last year we even ran VSE 2.2 in a z10. And we have always 
> has older (unsupported) Linux systems on more recent hardware (SLES8/9 on 
> z10).

This is the first time the underlying processor architecture has changed 
radically enough to be of concern.

> Anyway. As you mention it might lead to data corruption, got it. But I can 
> still read the files from those disks in a SLES11 machine. And we don't see 
> similar problems with SLES10 SP2 (though perhaps we are just lucky). So a 
> case of YMMV? And would this also affect ssh related issues as we've seen at 
> the start of the problems?

I suppose the corruption would happen on a read access and then made permanent 
on a write.  IBM didn't say it was 100% guaranteed, every time.  Just that it 
_would_ happen.

> Is there any way to resolve it? Other than an emergency migration to SLES11 
> and hope for the best? (Luckily it's only one production system so the damage 
> is not too big.)

SLES11 SP4 is functionally stabilized, so it might make more sense to go to 
something more recent and supported for a longer period, such as SLES12 SP1.  
But yes, I think that's the only way to truly fix this.


Mark Post

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Re: Unable to login with ssh

[van Sleeuwen, Berry]

Hi Mark,

I was afraid of that. There is a first for everything, this is the first time 
in 20+ years I have such problems with unsupported versions on new hardware. Up 
until last year we even ran VSE 2.2 in a z10. And we have always has older 
(unsupported) Linux systems on more recent hardware (SLES8/9 on z10).

Anyway. As you mention it might lead to data corruption, got it. But I can 
still read the files from those disks in a SLES11 machine. And we don't see 
similar problems with SLES10 SP2 (though perhaps we are just lucky). So a case 
of YMMV? And would this also affect ssh related issues as we've seen at the 
start of the problems?

Is there any way to resolve it? Other than an emergency migration to SLES11 and 
hope for the best? (Luckily it's only one production system so the damage is 
not too big.)

Met vriendelijke groet/With kind regards/Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Berry van Sleeuwen


-Original Message-
From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU] On Behalf Of Mark Post
Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2016 6:17 PM
To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: Re: Unable to login with ssh

>>> On 6/29/2016 at 05:42 AM, "van Sleeuwen, Berry"
>>> 
wrote:
> A few months ago we have moved to a z13 and zVM 6.3. All machines were
> moved successfully. But we now have problems with SLES10 SP4 machines.

Ah, this is most likely the cause of your problem.  Because SLES10 was EOL (and 
we don't have a z13), we didn't test it on a z13.  IBM, however, has told us to 
expect problems with data corruption/loss in such an environment.


Mark Post

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Request for Session Chairs for Atlanta

[John Crossno]

We are still in need of individuals to chair sessions at SHARE in Atlanta.
If you are planning to attend, why not jump in and help out by moderating a
session. If you are going to be sitting in the session anyway... why not?
Don't let the thought of chairing a session intimidate you? It's really
easy. You just introduce the speaker and the session, pass along some
relevant announcements, count the number of attendees, and report that
number after the session. Oh, and let the speaker now when the session is
almost over. There are still plenty of sessions to choose from, so don't
procrastinate and jump right in. Please respond to me directly with the
sessions that you would like to chair.

Session ID Session Title Day Date and Time Speakers
19325 Lab: Linux for Beginners, Part 1 of 3 Mon 2016-08-01, 10:00:00 Neale
Ferguson (Speaker)
19366 Introduction to Virtualization Mon 2016-08-01, 10:00:00 Romney White
(Speaker)
19552 Docker for Mainframers Mon 2016-08-01, 10:00:00 Wilhelm Mild (Speaker)
19326 Lab: Linux for Beginners, Part 2 of 3 Mon 2016-08-01, 11:15:00 Neale
Ferguson (Speaker)
19444 z/VM - The Leader in Virtualization Mon 2016-08-01, 11:15:00 Bill
Bitner (Speaker)
19327 Lab: Linux for Beginners, Part 3 of 3 Mon 2016-08-01, 12:30:00 Neale
Ferguson (Speaker)
19320 Hadoop and Data Integration with z Systems Mon 2016-08-01,
13:45:00 Cameron
Seay, Doctorate, Educational-Psychology, Master's, Business,
Information-Systems, Economics (Speaker), Mike Combs (Speaker)
19363 Introduction to RACF on z/VM Mon 2016-08-01, 13:45:00 Bruce Hayden
(Speaker)
19337 What's New with SLES 11 on System z Mon 2016-08-01, 15:15:00 Mark
Post (Speaker)
19364 Backup Strategies for z/VM, LinuxONE, and Linux on z Systems Mon
2016-08-01,
15:15:00 Tracy Dean (Speaker)
19365 Overview of CA VM:Secure for z/VM in a Single System Image (SSI)
Cluster Mon 2016-08-01, 15:15:00 Brian Jagos (Speaker)
19331 LinuxONE and z Systems Solutions and the Open Source Ecosystem
Mon 2016-08-01,
16:30:00 Wilhelm Mild (Speaker), Erich Amrehn (Speaker)
19752 Oracle Database on z Systems High Availability and DR Examples
Mon 2016-08-01,
16:30:00 Sam Amsavelu (Speaker), Gaylan Braselton (Speaker)
19324 KVM Concepts and Components for z/VM Lovers Tue 2016-08-02,
10:00:00 Stefan
Reimbold, Dr. (Speaker)
19368 How Do You Spell SMT on z/VM? Tue 2016-08-02, 10:00:00 John
Franciscovich (Speaker)
19063 Docker: The (complete) Tutorial Tue 2016-08-02, 11:15:00 Alejandro
Bonilla (Speaker)
19437 A Look at SMT Performance Tue 2016-08-02, 11:15:00 Bill Bitner
(Speaker)
19448 Lab: Managing a LinuxONE, z/VM, and Linux on z Systems Environment
Using IBM Solutions Tue 2016-08-02, 12:30:00 Tracy Dean (Speaker), Michael
Sine (Speaker), Eduardo C. Oliveira, IBM, Wave, for, z/VM, Tiger, Team,
Lead (Speaker)
19322 Introducing IBM LinuxONE and What It Means to You Tue 2016-08-02,
15:15:00 Bryan Foley (Speaker)
19391 Advanced Systems Management of LinuxONE and Linux on z Systems using
IBM Wave for z/VM Tue 2016-08-02, 15:15:00 Eduardo C. Oliveira, IBM, Wave,
for, z/VM, Tiger, Team, Lead (Speaker)
19323 SHARE Live! - Introduction and Positioning of KVM for IBM z Systems
Tue 2016-08-02, 16:30:00 Steffen Thoss (Speaker)
19334 Penguins Behind the Affordable Care Act Tue 2016-08-02, 16:30:00 Mike
Giglio, z/VM, Engineer (Speaker)
19441 z/VM Security Essentials Tue 2016-08-02, 16:30:00 Alan Altmark
(Speaker)
19394 Lab: Introduction to REXX Workshop (Part 1 of 2) (BYO Device)
Wed 2016-08-03,
08:30:00 John Franciscovich (Speaker)
19395 Lab: Introduction to REXX Workshop (Part 2 of 2) (BYO Device)
Wed 2016-08-03,
10:00:00 John Franciscovich (Speaker)
19329 Linux Performance Tools in 60 Minutes Wed 2016-08-03, 11:15:00 Stefan
Reimbold, Dr. (Speaker)
19393 z/VM Upgrade In Place Installation Wed 2016-08-03, 11:15:00 Richard
Lewis (Speaker)
19435 Gen-x and the Mainframe - I Ain't Doing 3270 Wed 2016-08-03,
11:15:00 Jack
Acton, Software, Developer (Speaker)
19309 IBM LinuxONE as an Enterprise Cloud Server Wed 2016-08-03, 13:45:00 Jim
Elliott (Speaker)
19440 Top Ten Most Listed z/VM Issues from the VM Listserv Since the Last
Meeting Wed 2016-08-03, 13:45:00 Brian Jagos (Speaker)
19450 Driving Virtual Mobile Devices Through the zEnterprise Wed 2016-08-03,
13:45:00 Matthew T. Cousens (Speaker)
19396 z/VM Virtual Switch (Part 1): The Basics Wed 2016-08-03, 15:15:00 Alan
Altmark (Speaker)
19397 Migrate Running Linux and z/VM Systems to New DASD Without Disruption
Wed 2016-08-03, 15:15:00 Mehdi Fadaifard (Speaker)
19551 A Variety of Uses for z Systems Wed 2016-08-03, 15:15:00 Wilhelm Mild
(Speaker)
19146 SUSE Linux Technical Update Wed 2016-08-03, 16:30:00 Mark Post
(Speaker)
19439 Top 20 Problems to Look for on z/VM and Linux for z Systems Wed
2016-08-03,
16:30:00 Rich Smrcina (Speaker)
19114 Linux & VM Program Dinner Wed 2016-08-03, 19:00:00 Brian Jagos
(Speaker), Rick Barlow (Speaker)
19332 Managing Linux Resources with cgroups and Containers Thu 2016-08-04,
08:30:00 Richard G. Young (Speaker)
19433 

Re: Unable to login with ssh

[Mark Post]

>>> On 6/29/2016 at 05:42 AM, "van Sleeuwen, Berry" 
wrote: 
> A few months ago we have moved to a z13 and zVM 6.3. All machines were moved 
> successfully. But we now have problems with SLES10 SP4 machines.

Ah, this is most likely the cause of your problem.  Because SLES10 was EOL (and 
we don't have a z13), we didn't test it on a z13.  IBM, however, has told us to 
expect problems with data corruption/loss in such an environment.


Mark Post

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Re: Unable to login with ssh

[Grzegorz Powiedziuk]

That looks unusual.
How did you move those machines? Did you move it from one storage to
another as well? How? Or did they stay on the same storage and you've just
ipl-ed those on a new system Z?
Do those sles10 SP4 live on the same storage as other linux guests? Is it
dasd? Did you try to run fsck on those disks after you linked it (W) to
other guest?

Gregory


2016-06-29 5:42 GMT-04:00 van Sleeuwen, Berry :

> I did trace the login ssh process. I haven't tried the top sshd process
> yet. But that's because we have another problem now. (Apart from being ill
> the last few weeks.) We can't login to the machine at all anymore. So the
> problem with the machine gets worse.
>
> A few months ago we have moved to a z13 and zVM 6.3. All machines were
> moved successfully. But we now have problems with SLES10 SP4 machines. We
> could logon to them right after the move. At some point ssh failed. And
> later on the login fails entirely. Even during boot some services can’t be
> started anymore. It looks like the passwd is corrupted. But when I link the
> disks in another linux guest I can still read files like passwd, group and
> shadow.
>
> During boot we see some errors, such as:
>
> Starting D-BUS daemon Could not get password database information for UID
> of current process:
> User "???" unknown or no memory to allocate password entry
> Unknown username "haldaemon" in message bus configuration file
>
> Starting SSH daemon Privilege separation user sshd does not exist
> startproc:  exit status of parent of /usr/sbin/sshd: 255
>
> When I try to login to the affected machines users are not accepted
> anymore. Even in a 3270 console I can't login anymore.
>
> We have a couple of SLES10 SP2 machines without any problems, all SLES11
> machines function correctly. It looks like to be a problem specific to
> SLES10 SP4.
>
> Could there be an issue specifically related to SLES10 SP4 on zVM 6.3/z13?
>
> Met vriendelijke groet/With kind regards/Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
> Berry van Sleeuwen
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU] On Behalf Of
> Mark Post
> Sent: Friday, May 27, 2016 7:29 PM
> To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU
> Subject: Re: Unable to login with ssh
>
> >>> On 5/27/2016 at 08:57 AM, Grzegorz Powiedziuk 
> wrote:
> > One other thing you could try (saved me many times) but a bit trouble
> > some is doing some stracing.
>
> This was something I was going to suggest as well.
>
> > 1. ssh to the user@server and let it sit on the login 2. on the
> > server, do ps auxwww |grep sshd  and look for a new spawned process
>
> Personally I would just pick the "top most" ssh process started at boot
> time _before_ trying to connect over the network.
>
> -snip-
> > 3. strace -p 36203 &> logfile.x
>
> I would probably try strace -f -p 36203 -s500 -o strace.sshd
>
> You'll need to break out of it using ^c since the process won't terminate
> on its own.
>
> -snip->
>  5. Now examine the the trace by looking at the logile.x   (it will be a
> big
> > file).
>
> If you don't have terminal server access you'll probably need to access it
> via FTP since scp is not likely to work.  Which raises a perhaps
> interesting question.  From the 3270 console are you able to ssh/scp _out_
> of the system?  That would at least allow you to send things off the system
> to some place you can use "normal" tools.
>
>
> Mark Post
>
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Re: Unable to login with ssh

[van Sleeuwen, Berry]

I did trace the login ssh process. I haven't tried the top sshd process yet. 
But that's because we have another problem now. (Apart from being ill the last 
few weeks.) We can't login to the machine at all anymore. So the problem with 
the machine gets worse.

A few months ago we have moved to a z13 and zVM 6.3. All machines were moved 
successfully. But we now have problems with SLES10 SP4 machines. We could logon 
to them right after the move. At some point ssh failed. And later on the login 
fails entirely. Even during boot some services can’t be started anymore. It 
looks like the passwd is corrupted. But when I link the disks in another linux 
guest I can still read files like passwd, group and shadow.

During boot we see some errors, such as:

Starting D-BUS daemon Could not get password database information for UID of 
current process:
User "???" unknown or no memory to allocate password entry
Unknown username "haldaemon" in message bus configuration file

Starting SSH daemon Privilege separation user sshd does not exist
startproc:  exit status of parent of /usr/sbin/sshd: 255

When I try to login to the affected machines users are not accepted anymore. 
Even in a 3270 console I can't login anymore.

We have a couple of SLES10 SP2 machines without any problems, all SLES11 
machines function correctly. It looks like to be a problem specific to SLES10 
SP4.

Could there be an issue specifically related to SLES10 SP4 on zVM 6.3/z13?

Met vriendelijke groet/With kind regards/Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Berry van Sleeuwen

-Original Message-
From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU] On Behalf Of Mark Post
Sent: Friday, May 27, 2016 7:29 PM
To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: Re: Unable to login with ssh

>>> On 5/27/2016 at 08:57 AM, Grzegorz Powiedziuk  wrote:
> One other thing you could try (saved me many times) but a bit trouble
> some is doing some stracing.

This was something I was going to suggest as well.

> 1. ssh to the user@server and let it sit on the login 2. on the
> server, do ps auxwww |grep sshd  and look for a new spawned process

Personally I would just pick the "top most" ssh process started at boot time 
_before_ trying to connect over the network.

-snip-
> 3. strace -p 36203 &> logfile.x

I would probably try strace -f -p 36203 -s500 -o strace.sshd

You'll need to break out of it using ^c since the process won't terminate on 
its own.

-snip->
 5. Now examine the the trace by looking at the logile.x   (it will be a big
> file).

If you don't have terminal server access you'll probably need to access it via 
FTP since scp is not likely to work.  Which raises a perhaps interesting 
question.  From the 3270 console are you able to ssh/scp _out_ of the system?  
That would at least allow you to send things off the system to some place you 
can use "normal" tools.


Mark Post

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network, the sender does not warrant that this transmission is virus-free and 
will not be liable for any damages resulting from any virus transmitted. On all 
offers and agreements under which Atos Nederland B.V. supplies goods and/or 
services of whatever nature, the Terms of Delivery from Atos Nederland B.V. 
exclusively apply. The Terms of Delivery shall be promptly submitted to you on 
your request.