Re: linux with nonstop's system works
Hi gang! I am an ADSL user since december, and lately have the chance to compare a cable connection to ADSL one. here are my observations: 1) cable is extremly fast. Nonstop must have a fat pipe to IIX as i felt like running on our LAN when browsing my webserver at the Technion. 2) Nonstop must have a modem line connecting it abroad, as i got few bits/second internet connections with many disconnections. When shoping for ADSL note that: 1) Bezeq will limit the uplink to 64 kb/s . this will limit download (tcp based) to ~1.2 Mb/s 2) the new equipment from Orkit has 60 ms RTT , 30 of them inside one network entity inside bezeq . 3) connecting your ADSL involves a PPTP session. I have no idea how many concurent sessions you can have. An atempt to tie 2 comp. on an ADSL simultaniously failed. 4) on the other hand, bypassing Bezeq Portal was no problem (meaning that you could connect your Linux at boot automaticly and keep the connection up). Dani On Tue, 15 Aug 2000, Tzafrir Cohen wrote: > On Mon, 14 Aug 2000, Mike Almogy wrote: > > > About cable modems, i read an article few month ago regarding to the "FAST" > > connection to the web with cables. > > If you mean the article on People&Computers - it was kind of misleading. > > The title was something like "Fast Internet is no better than > POTS". However - the conclusion was that it is "only" around 10 times > faster (and that includes the speed of the line from the ISP to the rest > of the Internet). > > > The article quote several engineers at very big cables companies and it was > > written there that fast connection on cables is just an illusion. > > What do i mean ?, well it said there that the mainproblem with cables is > > that it is a shard medium, just like coax and hub connection. > > That is, lots of users will have the same line together meaning that there > > will be a situation that if someone is D/L a big file then all the rest will > > be very slow. > > Chances are that the cables connection won't be the bottleneck: > Cable modems give you around 2Mbps (*bits* per second) upstream and > at least around 5Mbps downstream (shared) downstream (from the ISP to your > computer). > > Does the ISP have a 5Mbps connection to IIX? to USA? So if you don't use > your ISPs servers too much chances are that the bottleneck will be either > his connection, or somewhere farther. Nothing to do with cables. ADSL has > the same probem (maybe even ISDN connections have similar problems). > > > Just like now. > > No. We got around one bottleneck. We now talk about generally faster > speeds. > > > There is NO progress in trying to overcome this problem ! each provider has > > his own techniques how to overcome this problem. > > More then that, there is no work on a protocol that will fix this problem !, > > so there is a little chance thatthe problem will be fix in the near future. > > It was said that users with GOOD isp with 56,600 modems will receive a > > better connection then users of the cables. > > One true point here is that cables don't easily scale well. Unlike > ethernets you can't simply segment your network when you have too many > nodes on the same segment. > > > > > I will try to find this article and to scan it. > > I really hope that i'm mistaken, the article was written almost a year ago, > > so maybe something was changed. > > Than you probably refer to a diffeent article than the one I meant. > > > > guy keren wrote: > > > > > > > > hi, > > > > > > > > today i got a cable modem connected at home (nonstop is doing now a > > > > "test" at the haifa area). nonstop supports windows (maybe macs as > > well), > > >> not linux. However, setting it up for linux was rather simple (using > > > > 'pump' to configure the network interface via their DHCP server, and > > > > guessing some gateway address for the defual troute). > > > > > > > > the cable modem connects to the t.v. socket, and then, via a UTP > > ethernet > > > > cable, connects to the computer. unlike ADSL, no special "provider > > > > choosing" software seems to be needed here. on the machine itself, they > > > > insisted installing their own network adapter (3com 905 10/100), rather > > > > then use the already installed NIC. one strange thing about the cable > > > > modem - afterconnecting it to the power line, it takes between 15 > > minutes > > > > and 45 minutes until the modem manages to connect to nonstop's cable > > > > network (the technicians said something about finding a "return > > channel"). > > > > > > > > the connection to nonstop's web server is very fast (download under > > win98 > > > > was at about 180 KB/sec), but connection to the external internet is > > much > > > > slower - downloading files was at rates of 7KB - 16KB per second. they > > > > connect to the internet via barak, as traceroute showed. i tried this > > > > connection at around 18:30 . maybe it's different for other times of the > > > > day. > > > > > > > > if anyone else happens to join
Re: issues with the linux.org.il domain
On Mon, 14 Aug 2000, Ira Abramov wrote: > ok kids, so what did we learn today? > > a. JBA doesn't want to address the issue in public, won't defend his > questionable choice of action. > > b. but it's probably fine since the list is pretty adamant about it, > seems like the website is not interesting to anyone anymore, other than > its maintainers (btw, Chen, kudos on the new skin, I DID notice > yesterday) > I'm sorry Ira, but I have to disagree. There is (IMHO) one very obvious course of action to be taken in such a situation. As a matter of fact I am actually suprised of the maturity oif the list - I would have expected that a great big thread will arise that discusses this issue, beating it's dead corpse on and forth without actually achieving anything and instead it seems that the list as whole understood that mincing words here is not the right solution. I believe that JBA has at least one point where he is right: regardless of what I or any one think of you or any other member of IGLU, it remains just that - an opinion. Since there is no official body of IGLU, JBA has the right to the domain as much as anyone else. The solution is, I think, quite clear. I do think however that this is a time for action and not words, therefor if you'd like to hear more details send me a personal email. If something actually comes out of it, I'll publish it here on the list. > c. once again Ira has made the mistake of caring too much, only to > discover he's almost alone at it. I guarantee you this will not happen > again. Don't depair too soon, there are much worse time on the way ;-) > > I didn't give up on GNU/Linux, I gave up on Israelis. > Giving up is for people who have something to lose. Luckily, I don't have a life ;-) --- Gilad Ben-Yossef <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Tel: +972-54756701 GP: Is Eris true? Fax: +972-15154756701 M2: Everything is true.HTTP: http://benyossef.com GP: Even false things? GPG: 64C5 8B59 74D5 8FAE F097 M2: Even false things are true. 8DF8 4590 CE75 F444 6178 GP: How can that be? SMS: http://benyossef.com/how.html M2: I don't know man,I didn't do it. IRC: Fidros = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: NT logon over PPP - uncharted Domains?
Hi, best way would be to set up a WINS server (in addition to the routing, but it seems that the routing is OK since you could attach to the other NTs via their IP address). A WINS server is for the SMB network what DNS is for the IP network (translate name<->address). This will certainly speed up the browsing on your network ... Schlomo PS: Incidentially Samba makes a good WINS server ... Sincerely, Schlomo Schapiro --- email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] WWW: http://www.schapiro.org On Sun, 13 Aug 2000, Ira Abramov wrote: > > I have moved my company's dialup lines to ppp on linux (instead of the > NT's RAS server, which is rediculously brain damaged). > > the login and IP routing works OK. the NT client that dials up can see > the internet and connect outlook to the exchange etc, but logging on to > the NT domain andfinding servers other by their IP address is > impossible. I thought proxyarp should solve that, but sems I was wrong, > anyone ever solved this? can a M$ client only browse an M$ network if on > an NT RAS or something? (and yes, I do have netBEUI disabled!) > > thanks in advance, > Ira. > > -- > Ira Abramov, GNU/Linux advocate. > (@- > //\ "Akamai, Google, MicroSoft, Sun, Oracle, Intel, NASA, Sony, > v_/_ Python, JPG, PNG - CS masturbation is changing the world." >-- C.S. explaining her views on masturbation to Linus, 3/7/2000 > > > > = > To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with > the word "unsubscribe" inthe message body, e.g., run the command > echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] > = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: issues with the linux.org.il domain
Sad but true. Well, i hope that new blood will come soon, but we must keep on going ! Mike Vote for MIKE ! Your men in the Linux CABAL - Original Message - From: "Ira Abramov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "FLiCK" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, August 14, 2000 9:52 PM Subject: Re: issues with the linux.org.il domain > On Mon, 14 Aug 2000, Ira Abramov wrote: > > > how I was finally forced to bring it to the list. he agreed to change > > the IP addresses in the zone at the end, but would not explain his POV > > in Email, in a phonecall, or otherwise. > > ok kids, so what did we learn today? > > a. JBA doesn't want to address the issue in public, won't defend his > questionable choice of action. > > b. but it's probably fine since the list is pretty adamant about it, > seems like the website is not interesting to anyone anymore, other than > its maintainers (btw, Chen, kudos on the new skin, I DID notice > yesterday) > > c. once again Ira has made the mistake of caring too much, only to > discover he's almost alone at it. I guarantee you this will not happen > again. > > > I didn't give up on GNU/Linux, I gave up on Israelis. > > Have a nice week, I know I will! :) > > Ira Abramov, > Over and out. > > > = > To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with > the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command > echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: linux with nonstop's system works
On Mon, 14 Aug 2000, Mike Almogy wrote: > About cable modems, i read an article few month ago regarding to the "FAST" > connection to the web with cables. If you mean the article on People&Computers - it was kind of misleading. The title was something like "Fast Internet is no better than POTS". However - the conclusion was that it is "only" around 10 times faster (and that includes the speed of the line from the ISP to the rest of the Internet). > The article quote several engineers at very big cables companies and it was > written there that fast connection on cables is just an illusion. > What do i mean ?, well it said there that the mainproblem with cables is > that it is a shard medium, just like coax and hub connection. > That is, lots of users will have the same line together meaning that there > will be a situation that if someone is D/L a big file then all the rest will > be very slow. Chances are that the cables connection won't be the bottleneck: Cable modems give you around 2Mbps (*bits* per second) upstream and at least around 5Mbps downstream (shared) downstream (from the ISP to your computer). Does the ISP have a 5Mbps connection to IIX? to USA? So if you don't use your ISPs servers too much chances are that the bottleneck will be either his connection, or somewhere farther. Nothing to do with cables. ADSL has the same probem (maybe even ISDN connections have similar problems). > Just like now. No. We got around one bottleneck. We now talk about generally faster speeds. > There is NO progress in trying to overcome this problem ! each provider has > his own techniques how to overcome this problem. > More then that, there is no work on a protocol that will fix this problem !, > so there is a little chance thatthe problem will be fix in the near future. > It was said that users with GOOD isp with 56,600 modems will receive a > better connection then users of the cables. One true point here is that cables don't easily scale well. Unlike ethernets you can't simply segment your network when you have too many nodes on the same segment. > > I will try to find this article and to scan it. > I really hope that i'm mistaken, the article was written almost a year ago, > so maybe something was changed. Than you probably refer to a diffeent article than the one I meant. > > guy keren wrote: > > > > > > hi, > > > > > > today i got a cable modem connected at home (nonstop is doing now a > > > "test" at the haifa area). nonstop supports windows (maybe macs as > well), > >> not linux. However, setting it up for linux was rather simple (using > > > 'pump' to configure the network interface via their DHCP server, and > > > guessing some gateway address for the defual troute). > > > > > > the cable modem connects to the t.v. socket, and then, via a UTP > ethernet > > > cable, connects to the computer. unlike ADSL, no special "provider > > > choosing" software seems to be needed here. on the machine itself, they > > > insisted installing their own network adapter (3com 905 10/100), rather > > > then use the already installed NIC. one strange thing about the cable > > > modem - afterconnecting it to the power line, it takes between 15 > minutes > > > and 45 minutes until the modem manages to connect to nonstop's cable > > > network (the technicians said something about finding a "return > channel"). > > > > > > the connection to nonstop's web server is very fast (download under > win98 > > > was at about 180 KB/sec), but connection to the external internet is > much > > > slower - downloading files was at rates of 7KB - 16KB per second. they > > > connect to the internet via barak, as traceroute showed. i tried this > > > connection at around 18:30 . maybe it's different for other times of the > > > day. > > > > > > if anyone else happens to join their experimental program and needs some > > > help, i could try to assist with setup under linux. -- Tzafrir Cohen mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.technion.ac.il/~tzafrir = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: linux with nonstop's system works
On Mon, 14 Aug 2000, Mike Almogy wrote: > I will try to find this article and to scan it. > I really hope that i'm mistaken, the article was written almost a year ago, > so maybe something was changed. i've heard of such an article that was published in "people and computers", and that made this statement regarding cables in general, and europe's situation in particular. yet, joining the experiment is for free, and since only a few hundreads of users will be joining it, i don't assume that connection to "matav central" would be slow. surely, when they finally open their service, it'll be as slow as with all other providers, if not slower... but you tell me - they offer you a free meal - will you reject that offer? btw, downloa from uunet dropped to 3KB/sec, when tested half an hour ago. guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
A story about our Internet connection
Hi Guys, Look what I have found in theregister.co.uk about the Internet connection and Israel: http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/1/12572.html What do u think? -- Hetz Ben Hamo Intelligence & Research [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aduva Inc. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: linux with nonstop's system works
Hi. About barak, i'm using them as a VPDN for my users and it work ok. since i to have some routing problems then maybe it is not as fast as it should be, but that is not why i post this mail. About cable modems, i read an article few month ago regarding to the "FAST" connection to the web with cables. The article quote several engineers at very big cables companies and it was written there that fast connection on cables is just an illusion. What do i mean ?, well it said there that the main problem with cables is that it is a shard medium, just like coax and hub connection. That is, lots of users will have the same line together meaning that there will be a situation that if someone is D/L a big file then all the rest will be very slow. Just like now. There is NO progress in trying to overcome this problem ! each provider has his own techniques how to overcome this problem. More then that, there is no work on a protocol that will fix this problem !, so there is a little chance that the problem will be fix in the near future. It was said that users with GOOD isp with 56,600 modems will receive a better connection then users of the cables. I will try to find this article and to scan it. I really hope that i'm mistaken, the article was written almost a year ago, so maybe something was changed. Mike - Original Message - From: "Hetz Ben Hamo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "guy keren" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, August 14, 2000 10:27 PM Subject: Re: linux with nonstop's system works > Hi Guy, > > Be careful with Barak - from my experience with them they seems to be > sometimes very fast, sometimes very slow, and lots of time - they route > is lost > > I'm talking about the time slow/fast at the same times - meaning they > could be very fast on 11 PM and the same day tommorow - to be VERY > slow.. > > I don't know who is doing their network routing stuff, but either their > equipment to connect outside Israel is very bad or their technicians > playing the guessing game there.. > > I'm not trying to flame here anyone special - but from my last year > experience with Barak, I wouldn't recommend them as my dial-up ISP - > maybe they're good at the ADSL - I don't know, but for Dial-Up I'll > never use them again. > > This is just my personal opinion. > > Why am I telling you this? I suggest for you to get-up (LEHAKIM) a squid > proxy at your friends machine which is connected to another ISP - just > in case the route falls there... > > Thanks > Hetz > > > guy keren wrote: > > > > hi, > > > > today i got a cable modem connected at home (nonstop is doing now a > > "test" at the haifa area). nonstop supports windows (maybe macs as well), > > not linux. However, setting it up for linux was rather simple (using > > 'pump' to configure the network interface via their DHCP server, and > > guessing some gateway address for the defual troute). > > > > the cable modem connects to the t.v. socket, and then, via a UTP ethernet > > cable, connects to the computer. unlike ADSL, no special "provider > > choosing" software seems to be needed here. on the machine itself, they > > insisted installing their own network adapter (3com 905 10/100), rather > > then use the already installed NIC. one strange thing about the cable > > modem - afterconnecting it to the power line, it takes between 15 minutes > > and 45 minutes until the modem manages to connect to nonstop's cable > > network (the technicians said something about finding a "return channel"). > > > > the connection to nonstop's web server is very fast (download under win98 > > was at about 180 KB/sec), but connection to the external internet is much > > slower - downloading files was at rates of 7KB - 16KB per second. they > > connect to the internet via barak, as traceroute showed. i tried this > > connection at around 18:30 . maybe it's different for other times of the > > day. > > > > if anyone else happens to join their experimental program and needs some > > help, i could try to assist with setup under linux. > > > > guy > > > > "For world domination - press 1, > > or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy > > > > = > > To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with > > the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command > > echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > -- > Hetz Ben Hamo > Intelligence & Research > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Aduva Inc. > > = > To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with > the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command > echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: some issues
On Mon, 14 Aug 2000, Eli Marmor wrote: > Isaac Aaron wrote: > > > Lotus Notes is quite good. I'm using it for several monthes. > > Nobody claimed that OpenMail is better than Notes. The man only > asked if there is an Exchange compliant for Linux; He didn't ask for > competitors, and even not for better tools. Only for compliants. > This is why Ira responded with the OpenMail, and my contribution to > the discussion was the exact name of the software. > AFAIK Lotus Notes has some feature which allow Outlook users to connect to it as an Exchange server, which makes it "Exchnage compliant". --- Gilad Ben-Yossef <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Tel: +972-54756701 GP: Is Eris true? Fax: +972-15154756701 M2: Everything is true.HTTP: http://benyossef.com GP: Even false things? GPG: 64C5 8B59 74D5 8FAE F097 M2: Even false things are true. 8DF8 4590 CE75 F444 6178 GP: How can that be? SMS: http://benyossef.com/how.html M2: I don't know man,I didn't do it. IRC: Fidros = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: issues with the linux.org.il domain
On Mon, 14 Aug 2000, Ira Abramov wrote: > how I was finally forced to bring it to the list. he agreed to change > the IP addresses in the zone at the end, but would not explain his POV > in Email, in a phonecall, or otherwise. ok kids, so what did we learn today? a. JBA doesn't want to address the issue in public, won't defend his questionable choice of action. b. but it's probably fine since the list is pretty adamant about it, seems like the website is not interesting to anyone anymore, other than its maintainers (btw, Chen, kudos on the new skin, I DID notice yesterday) c. once again Ira has made the mistake of caring too much, only to discover he's almost alone at it. I guarantee you this will not happen again. I didn't give up on GNU/Linux, I gave up on Israelis. Have a nice week, I know I will! :) Ira Abramov, Over and out. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: linux with nonstop's system works
Hi Guy, Be careful with Barak - from my experience with them they seems to be sometimes very fast, sometimes very slow, and lots of time - they route is lost I'm talking about the time slow/fast at the same times - meaning they could be very fast on 11 PM and the same day tommorow - to be VERY slow.. I don't know who is doing their network routing stuff, but either their equipment to connect outside Israel is very bad or their technicians playing the guessing game there.. I'm not trying to flame here anyone special - but from my last year experience with Barak, I wouldn't recommend them as my dial-up ISP - maybe they're good at the ADSL - I don't know, but for Dial-Up I'll never use them again. This is just my personal opinion. Why am I telling you this? I suggest for you to get-up (LEHAKIM) a squid proxy at your friends machine which is connected to another ISP - just in case the route falls there... Thanks Hetz guy keren wrote: > > hi, > > today i got a cable modem connected at home (nonstop is doing now a > "test" at the haifa area). nonstop supports windows (maybe macs as well), > not linux. However, setting it up for linux was rather simple (using > 'pump' to configure the network interface via their DHCP server, and > guessing some gateway address for the defual troute). > > the cable modem connects to the t.v. socket, and then, via a UTP ethernet > cable, connects to the computer. unlike ADSL, no special "provider > choosing" software seems to be needed here. on the machine itself, they > insisted installing their own network adapter (3com 905 10/100), rather > then use the already installed NIC. one strange thing about the cable > modem - afterconnecting it to the power line, it takes between 15 minutes > and 45 minutes until the modem manages to connect to nonstop's cable > network (the technicians said something about finding a "return channel"). > > the connection to nonstop's web server is very fast (download under win98 > was at about 180 KB/sec), but connection to the external internet is much > slower - downloading files was at rates of 7KB - 16KB per second. they > connect to the internet via barak, as traceroute showed. i tried this > connection at around 18:30 . maybe it's different for other times of the > day. > > if anyone else happens to join their experimental program and needs some > help, i could try to assist with setup under linux. > > guy > > "For world domination - press 1, > or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy > > = > To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with > the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command > echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Hetz Ben Hamo Intelligence & Research [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aduva Inc. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
linux with nonstop's system works
hi, today i got a cable modem connected at home (nonstop is doing now a "test" at the haifa area). nonstop supports windows (maybe macs as well), not linux. However, setting it up for linux was rather simple (using 'pump' to configure the network interface via their DHCP server, and guessing some gateway address for the defual troute). the cable modem connects to the t.v. socket, and then, via a UTP ethernet cable, connects to the computer. unlike ADSL, no special "provider choosing" software seems to be needed here. on the machine itself, they insisted installing their own network adapter (3com 905 10/100), rather then use the already installed NIC. one strange thing about the cable modem - afterconnecting it to the power line, it takes between 15 minutes and 45 minutes until the modem manages to connect to nonstop's cable network (the technicians said something about finding a "return channel"). the connection to nonstop's web server is very fast (download under win98 was at about 180 KB/sec), but connection to the external internet is much slower - downloading files was at rates of 7KB - 16KB per second. they connect to the internet via barak, as traceroute showed. i tried this connection at around 18:30 . maybe it's different for other times of the day. if anyone else happens to join their experimental program and needs some help, i could try to assist with setup under linux. guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: some issues
Isaac Aaron wrote: > Lotus Notes is quite good. I'm using it for several monthes. Nobody claimed that OpenMail is better than Notes. The man only asked if there is an Exchange compliant for Linux; He didn't ask for competitors, and even not for better tools. Only for compliants. This is why Ira responded with the OpenMail, and my contribution to the discussion was the exact name of the software. And - yes, Notes/Domino is a very powerful software (I know it - I'm taking apart in its localization...). -- Eli Marmor = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Linux Magazines...
Hi, If online? Just check it out in Linux Weekly News site: http://www.lwn.net N. Sakthivel On Sun, 13 Aug 2000, Benji Selano wrote: > Hi... > > can anyone recommend a good Linux magazine? (something like Linux > Journal...) > > some monthly\bi-weekly magazine. > > Benji > = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sendmail Error
hi... i seem to have an error on one of my sendmail users . "Error opening or locking INBOX ..." using sendmail 8.9.3. Dialup user. i don't usualy get this error... how can i fix it? Benji = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: some issues
Lotus Notes is quite good. I'm using it for several monthes. It's not quite the same as Micrsoft Exchange, but you can access it with Outlook 2000 though IMAP or through a native driver. And (IMHO) it's a lot more secure (comes with S/MIME, SSL, a signature system, database encryption in the basic package) and has supported Hebrew from the Web Access a lot sooner the Exchange/IIS did. Plus it has, a CENTRALIZED ADMINISTRATION (no need to chages the workstations). Isaac Aaron Azorim Construction Eli Marmor elmar.co.il> cc: Sent by: rootSubject: Re: some issues @ main.aquanet. co.il 14/08/00 10:56 Ira Abramov wrote: > > On Mon, 14 Aug 2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > 3. any one HAS EXPERIENCE with any product ( commercial or free ) that > > could give me > >the full functionality of an microsoft-exchange-server ( not just > > nope. HP's comes the closest and everybody agrees it sucks :( In case anybody is interested, it's called "OpenMail". And it is not HP to blame for the quality, but the process: There are many high-quality software packages for UNIX/Linux, and there are many high-quality software packages for NT (!). But taking a product which was designed for one environment of those two, and porting it (or re-writing it in this case) for the other platform, is (almost) always bad. -- Eli Marmor = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: issues with the linux.org.il domain
On Mon, 14 Aug 2000, Nadav Har'El wrote: > I just did 'whois [EMAIL PROTECTED]' (I know, I should > have done it earlier), and it seems that it was last updated on > August 13th, and that Ira is listed (as the Zone Contact)! So Ira, > what's the problem - what prevents you from making changes to the > registration (like changing the DNS)? Or is it that you don't want > to do that without JBA agreeing first? I didn't want to use it before, but as I poted in my last Email, I did try it yesterday, JBA immediately contacted ISOC and stopped it. When I asked why, asked again for cooperation, he refusd to explain, that's how I was finally forced to bring it to the list. he agreed to change the IP addresses in the zone at the end, but would not explain his POV in Email, in a phonecall, or otherwise. -- Ira Abramov, GNU/Linux advocate. (@- //\ "Akamai, Google, MicroSoft, Sun, Oracle, Intel, NASA, Sony, v_/_Python, JPG, PNG - CS masturbation is changing the world." -- C.S. explaining her views on masturbation to Linus, 3/7/2000 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: issues with the linux.org.il domain
On Mon, 14 Aug 2000, Nadav Har'El wrote: > These days, domain names are worth money (much like real-estate), > and may even be worth more in the future (but who knows, maybe this > whole crappy will be dumped in the future). Anyway, I understand why > Mr. Ben-Avraham would not want to "give" the *ownership* of the > domain name to you, Maddog, or anybody else. makes sense to a limit. Mr. Ben-Avraham does not own the Linux trademark, however if IGLU is not an official legal body, we can't expect to gain proxy rights from Linus Torvalds for the domain either. HOWEVER, I would expect a BASIC amount of decency from Jonathan to let us control the zone, which he won't. after delaying our request to move the IP to the new server, I invoked my rights as the zone contact of the domain (which I am since it was first ordered) and moved the NS records to point at IGLU's server, but he reversed it hence: - I have no control over the zone. - I have no cooperatoin on the whois registry status at ISOC. either one would suffice, but JBA is preventing both from us, and THAT is what I resent. > whatever you want to call it). As the real owner, Ben-Avraham would be able > to revoke Ira's proxy privilages if he wishes. which he did. > If that suggestion doesn't work, then the second best thing is for Ben-Avraham > to let Ira's IP (or whomever) act as the nameserver for the linux.org.il. which he also refuses. now you understand my frustrations and the source of my fears. > If Ben-Avraham doesn't go for any of these solutions, and doesn't > present alternative plans (i.e., he's obviously allowed to open his > own "linux.org.il" site with free Linux content, not an ad to his > company), then it is perhaps possible for Linus to sue him. But > don't bet on it - it sounds like a difficult battle (and IANAL) and > I don't see anybody going ahead with it. sadly enough, there are too many indications this is what he is counting on, by avoiding all my direct questions in the matter. that's why I am forced to make this a public issue. > Ira, please be aware that such promises are *NEVER* enough. > Sometimes people get f***ed over even by their closest friends or > family. You'll have to *assure* Ben-Avraham that you won't abuse it, > for example by keeping him as the domain owner, and you'll only be > the technical contact (which is obviously allowed to make changes to > the registration). I am, and he reverses them immediately. I therefore sugested li.org, seeing tat they may be an authority we could trust, and save a few hundred dollars none of us have to spare on building an amuta, writing a charter, hiring a lawyer and accountant, and all so we can freakin' change a zone file for a domain he ORIGINALLY BOUGHT FOR THE GROUP ANYWAY. any way I look at it it doesn't make sense, and if he can't reason we either lose the domain one day, or both sides spend considerable amounts of money on a legal battle. I don't see the latter happening, and the third option is going to the media, which is not a light step to take, ubt JBA has a lot more to lose than us. I don't want to go there, althrough I do think we are in the right here. afterall this entire annoying discussion is about where the NS records point, I could not care LESS what names are in the whois. > Ira, again, you must understand him too: An Aumuta is not just a > beaurocracy: it is also a legal framework (with a board, overseeer, yes, but an expensive one! > etc.) to make sure that no single person attempts to take over the > Amuta's assets (in this case, the domain name). Without such an > Amuta he can never be sure that if he gives you full ownership of > the domain name you won't abuse it sometime in the future. he's abusing it some time in the present. so far 1:0 for our side. > Do we have any lawyer, CPA, or something like that in our group? Creating > an Amuta is *not* impossible, and many small organizations do it. Why > are we not at least trying to do that? (Again, only if we have someone who > knows how to go about doing this. I wouldn't even know where to begin). and who will head it and who pays the CPA and lawyer? nobody puts in money for anything here, and nobody leads this group for more than 6 months in a row before burning out. > > dinner, but also to discuss and consult/play judge on our domain issue > > here. > > First, make sure that Ben-Avraham accepts him as an arbitrator... first, try to get ANY useful reaction from him. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: issues with the linux.org.il domain
I just did 'whois [EMAIL PROTECTED]' (I know, I should have done it earlier), and it seems that it was last updated on August 13th, and that Ira is listed (as the Zone Contact)! So Ira, what's the problem - what prevents you from making changes to the registration (like changing the DNS)? Or is it that you don't want to do that without JBA agreeing first? -- Nadav Har'El| Monday, Aug 14 2000, 13 Av 5760 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy http://nadav.harel.org.il |every minute of it. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: some issues
Ira Abramov wrote: > > On Mon, 14 Aug 2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > 3. any one HAS EXPERIENCE with any product ( commercial or free ) that > > could give me > >the full functionality of an microsoft-exchange-server ( not just > > nope. HP's comes the closest and everybody agrees it sucks :( In case anybody is interested, it's called "OpenMail". And it is not HP to blame for the quality, but the process: There are many high-quality software packages for UNIX/Linux, and there are many high-quality software packages for NT (!). But taking a product which was designed for one environment of those two, and porting it (or re-writing it in this case) for the other platform, is (almost) always bad. -- Eli Marmor = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: issues with the linux.org.il domain
On Mon, Aug 14, 2000, Ira Abramov wrote about "issues with the linux.org.il domain": > > Hey list... > > I'm bringing this issue to public attention, since I have repeatedly > asked Jonathan Ben-Avraham to do it himself, and he refuses. I'll try to > describe the situation as objectively as I can. Here are my thoughts on the issue. These days, domain names are worth money (much like real-estate), and may even be worth more in the future (but who knows, maybe this whole crappy will be dumped in the future). Anyway, I understand why Mr. Ben-Avraham would not want to "give" the *ownership* of the domain name to you, Maddog, or anybody else. As a (not-very-related) example, just look at what is happening now with Kibbutzim in the merkaz area of Israel. When they were given land by the State of Israel, the land wasn't really worth much, and giving them land for free was viewed as "patriotic", "right", "not-for-profit", "idealistic", etc, and they were (quite rightly) viewed as the best use for that land. Several decades later, not much of the idealism is left, and small groups of people control very expensive real-estate without every paying for it - and some of them are taking advantage of that, unfortunately. Anway, here is my suggestion (which of course won't be worth much if Mr. Ben-Avraham won't accept it): Let him remain the registered owner of the domain, but let Ira (or "IGLU" or Maddog or whomever) be registered as a proxy allowed to make changes to the domain (or "technical contact", or whatever you want to call it). As the real owner, Ben-Avraham would be able to revoke Ira's proxy privilages if he wishes. If that suggestion doesn't work, then the second best thing is for Ben-Avraham to let Ira's IP (or whomever) act as the nameserver for the linux.org.il. If Ben-Avraham doesn't go for any of these solutions, and doesn't present alternative plans (i.e., he's obviously allowed to open his own "linux.org.il" site with free Linux content, not an ad to his company), then it is perhaps possible for Linus to sue him. But don't bet on it - it sounds like a difficult battle (and IANAL) and I don't see anybody going ahead with it. > some of the people more active on the organizational core of this group > are aware that for some time there has been a communicatrion problem > between us (me?) and the holder of the linux.org.il domain, Mr. Jonathan > Ben-Avraham. for the last 6 months, during the move to the new IGLU If, for some reason, Ben-Avraham has a personal problem with Ira, then I'm sure we can find someone else to do the DNS changes (which is really quite easy work :)) - I even volunteer myself if that is needed. > masters of the linux.org.il domain name, and has YET TO EXPLAIN WHY. he > refused my requests for a phonecall, refused to explain it here in > public. My own plans for iglu.org.il are and will always be publicly and This is really nasty. Ben-Avraham, if you're reading this, PLEASE agree to have a short phonecall with Ira about this. It's not like Ira has any malicious intent to take over your domain name and make money off it, or anything. And I assume you don't have such plans, either, at the moment. > clearly known, I'll be happy to give it away or share the control for > whatever reason or need of the group, and will never abuse it, just ask > me and I'll add you as technical or zone contact, I think by past action > I have proved my intentions. Ira, please be aware that such promises are *NEVER* enough. Sometimes people get f***ed over even by their closest friends or family. You'll have to *assure* Ben-Avraham that you won't abuse it, for example by keeping him as the domain owner, and you'll only be the technical contact (which is obviously allowed to make changes to the registration). > This situation is putting a big question mark on Mr. Ben-Avraham's > motives and future plans for the linux.org.il domain. After threatening > him he finally sugested that iff an Amuta was started he would consider > relinquishing control, however as we all know this was discussed in the > past several times and forsaken even for REAL reasons like money > donations from sponsors, so starting the whole beaurocracy mess would be > rediculous. Ira, again, you must understand him too: An Aumuta is not just a beaurocracy: it is also a legal framework (with a board, overseeer, etc.) to make sure that no single person attempts to take over the Amuta's assets (in this case, the domain name). Without such an Amuta he can never be sure that if he gives you full ownership of the domain name you won't abuse it sometime in the future. > c. Me and JBA have ben the most active part of this discussion, neither >should be in control of the domain. I sugested a list of impartial >individuals from this group to control the domain and he ignored it. Be careful when listing a whole list of individuals as "owners" of a domain: Some time in the future one of them might decide to fight with the rest
Re: POP3 in DMZ
On Mon, 14 Aug 2000, Alex Rier wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Q.
> A corporate wants to allow it's employees to fetch the e-mails
> from it's e-mail server using POP3 (from the Internet).
> So, where do you put the POP3 Server? In DMZ? Behind the Firewall?
> Where do you keep the e-mails DBase? Where do you keep the users DBase?
> How do you authenticate? What POP3 Server is recommended?
1. Put the email server on the DMZ.
2. Try to convince the company to use SIMAP instead of POP3 or at least
APOP.
3. Use quota to limit the size of the maildirs or mailboxes and
to encourage users to file their messages in local folders (not on the
mailhost)
4. Encourage the company to install the mail service on a separate
machine.
Regards,
- yba
>
> Regards,
>
> Alex Rier|
> Linux Consultant | Tel: +972-52-442549
> Breakthrough Ltd.| FAX: +972-3-5364060
> http://www.breakt.co.il | mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
> =
> To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
> the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command
> echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
--
EE 77 7F 30 4A 64 2E C5 83 5F E7 49 A6 82 29 BA~. .~ TclTek Ltd.
=}-ooO--U--Ooo---{=
- [EMAIL PROTECTED] - tel: +972.52.670.353, http://www.tcltek.co.il -
=
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POP3 in DMZ
Hi, Q. A corporate wants to allow it's employees to fetch the e-mails from it's e-mail server using POP3 (from the Internet). So, where do you put the POP3 Server? In DMZ? Behind the Firewall? Where do you keep the e-mails DBase? Where do you keep the users DBase? How do you authenticate? What POP3 Server is recommended? Regards, Alex Rier| Linux Consultant | Tel: +972-52-442549 Breakthrough Ltd.| FAX: +972-3-5364060 http://www.breakt.co.il | mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
issues with the linux.org.il domain
Hey list... I'm bringing this issue to public attention, since I have repeatedly asked Jonathan Ben-Avraham to do it himself, and he refuses. I'll try to describe the situation as objectively as I can. some of the people more active on the organizational core of this group are aware that for some time there has been a communicatrion problem between us (me?) and the holder of the linux.org.il domain, Mr. Jonathan Ben-Avraham. for the last 6 months, during the move to the new IGLU server and now during the second move to Actcom, requests to change IP addresses in the zone were delayed and our plees to have control over the naming were rejected with no reason given. For a week the server at actcom has been the master of the iglu.org.il domain (which I bought in the past to circumvent exactly that problem), and ofcourse it's the NS record pointed to by ns.il, the control over it is by the people holding the root password on IGLU (and there are a few of us who have it) however Mr. Ben-Avraham has refused to let us be the masters of the linux.org.il domain name, and has YET TO EXPLAIN WHY. he refused my requests for a phonecall, refused to explain it here in public. My own plans for iglu.org.il are and will always be publicly and clearly known, I'll be happy to give it away or share the control for whatever reason or need of the group, and will never abuse it, just ask me and I'll add you as technical or zone contact, I think by past action I have proved my intentions. This situation is putting a big question mark on Mr. Ben-Avraham's motives and future plans for the linux.org.il domain. After threatening him he finally sugested that iff an Amuta was started he would consider relinquishing control, however as we all know this was discussed in the past several times and forsaken even for REAL reasons like money donations from sponsors, so starting the whole beaurocracy mess would be rediculous. facts: a. Linux is a copyrighted trademark of Linus Torvalds. b. the linux.org.il domain appears in whois as "the Israeli linux users assoc", which has yet to be born, but is DEFINITELY not TclTek. c. Me and JBA have ben the most active part of this discussion, neither should be in control of the domain. I sugested a list of impartial individuals from this group to control the domain and he ignored it. d. access to the DNS on JBA's is slow, and he is slow to answer requests for changes in the server's zone. e. JBA has refused repeatedly to even let the IGLU server be an NS record for the domain on ns.il so requests will be answered faster, nor that our group will have control over the domain's config. f. after much hard deliberation yesterday, JBA has agreed to finally change the IP addrewss of www.linux.org.il to point to the new server almost a week after we originally asked him, and again refused to let us share control of the domain. I sugest the following: a. discuss it in a public forum, either on this list or the next IGLU meeting in 2 weeks. b. Seeing as IGLU will possibly never become an Amuta, the next body responsible should be Linux International (headed by maddog Hall, trusted by Linus himself). JBA will transfer ownership of the domain to them and they will let us legally and freely use the domain as intended. Since I am no longer organizing anything here (except for domain record riots it seems, but I DO find it a VERY serious issue) I sugest someone contact maddog about his visit to Israel next month, both about an IGLU dinner, but also to discuss and consult/play judge on our domain issue here. If you feel even more militant: ask him what to do about linux.co.il and linux.net.il next. The discussion is now open for the list to decide on action with or against Mr. Ben-Avraham, I have given up on trying to cooperate with him or figure out his motives. -- Ira Abramov, GNU/Linux advocate. (@- //\ "Akamai, Google, MicroSoft, Sun, Oracle, Intel, NASA, Sony, v_/_Python, JPG, PNG - CS masturbation is changing the world." -- C.S. explaining her views on masturbation to Linus, 3/7/2000 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: NT logon over PPP - uncharted Domains?
On Sun, 13 Aug 2000, Gilad Ben-Yossef wrote: > The bloatware clients needs a WINS server. From pppd's manual: > > ms-wins > If pppd is acting as a server for Microsoft Windows > or "Samba" clients, this option allows pppd to sup BINGO!!! that should teach me to read age-old howtos instead of up-to-date man pages :-) Thanks Gilad, my boss says I should kiss you on the forehead next time I see you :) -- Ira Abramov, GNU/Linux advocate. (@- //\ "Akamai, Google, MicroSoft, Sun, Oracle, Intel, NASA, Sony, v_/_Python, JPG, PNG - CS masturbation is changing the world." -- C.S. explaining her views on masturbation to Linus, 3/7/2000 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: some issues
On Mon, 14 Aug 2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > 3. any one HAS EXPERIENCE with any product ( commercial or free ) that > could give me >the full functionality of an microsoft-exchange-server ( not just nope. HP's comes the closest and everybody agrees it sucks :( > 4. any friendly web-mail-interface (free/comercial) ? I have OCS but sqwebmail over Qmail, or just install the entire courier mail system which includes it. I intend to try and fit sqwebmail on IGLU when I have the time (or does someone else want to attempt this?) so anyone can have an [EMAIL PROTECTED] with pop3 and web access (possibly also IMAP over SSL too) toodles. -- Ira Abramov, GNU/Linux advocate. (@- //\ "Akamai, Google, MicroSoft, Sun, Oracle, Intel, NASA, Sony, v_/_Python, JPG, PNG - CS masturbation is changing the world." -- C.S. explaining her views on masturbation to Linus, 3/7/2000 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
some issues
hi I need some help in these issues: 1. vacation does not seem to work, even when i ran it from command line ( i.e. as root: cat mail-msg|/usr/bin/vacation ) it does not give any error, but does not send any mail 2. can samba do TRUST ? ( I have a samba PDC and have to do trust with another domain on NT-PDC ) 3. any one HAS EXPERIENCE with any product ( commercial or free ) that could give me the full functionality of an microsoft-exchange-server ( not just email ) ? ( I tried HP-OpenMail, but wasted my time ... either it is not what I need, or I need someone to install,configure,support it ) any company in israel that can do the installation / support for me (for the adequate product) ? 4. any friendly web-mail-interface (free/comercial) ? I have OCS but microsoft-users here say it is not user friendly, and is full of bugs ! ( I also noticed some ... ) 5. anyone knows how the 'detect proxy automatically' in IE works ( how can i configure it ? ) thanks erez. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: NT logon over PPP - uncharted Domains?
Arie Vayner wrote: > > Hi > > There is a very easy solution for your problem... > > Activate WINS service on one of your NT servers, then at home enter it's > IP address in the "WINS Server" box ( ;-) ) > As my (somewhat garbled) answer pointed to before, you can have pppd put that entry automagically in the windblows client machines. -- Gilad Ben-Yossef <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://kagoor.com | +972(9)9565333 x230 | +972(54)756701 "I've been seduced by the chocolate side of the force." = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Virtual desktops in GNOME
At 21:19 8/13/00 +, Subba Rao wrote: >I am pretty new to GNOME. My .xinitrc has gnome-session at the end. >What I am looking for is virtual desktops (like I had in FVWM2). I would like >that available on the desktop or in the panel(if that's what it is called) on >the bottom. > >Where can I find some sample configurations on how to setup virtual destops in >GNOME? At 21:19 8/13/00 +, you wrote: >I am pretty new to GNOME. My .xinitrc has gnome-session at the end. >What I am looking for is virtual desktops (like I had in FVWM2). I would like >that available on the desktop or in the panel(if that's what it is called) on >the bottom. > >Where can I find some sample configurations on how to setup virtual destops in >GNOME? GNOME supports virtual desktops very well. To have them on the panel, you need to put there an applet of some sort which I forgot its name. Somewhere in the GNOME "foot" menus, you can find it. Just make sure you see a square on the panel and next to it a button for each opened application. Next, you'll need to configure your windows manager. In Enlightenment, (which is the default window manager in the Red Hat packaging of GNOME and basically GNOME 1.0.x), you need to run the Enlightenment configuration utility, and set it up. You can run it by accessing the Windows Managers Tab of the control-center and then selecting Enlightenment and pressing the "Configure Window's Maanger" button. If you are using IceWM (which AFAIK is the default for Mandrake), you should use icepref to do that. icepref is a Python/Gtk+ program so you need to have both Python and the Python bindings for Gtk+ installed. GNOME 1.2.x works with the Sawfish windows manager, which I did not have any experience with. It should have a configuration applet for GNOME, too. Contact me by E-mail, if you encounter further problems. Shlomi Fish >Thank you in advance. >-- > >Subba Rao >[EMAIL PROTECTED] >http://pws.prserv.net/truemax/ > > => Time is relative. Here is a new way to look at time. <= >http://www.smcinnovations.com > >= >To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with >the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command >echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ I don't believe in fairies. Oops! A fairy died. I don't believe in fairies. Oops! Another fairy died. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
