RE: Questions to RMS (was: Re: RMS, T'so and the LUG)
the RMS visit is getting closer and closer. As well, it appears, as the war in Iraq. I just hope the whole event won't be canceled. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT: SSH over HTTP
On Sun, 2002-12-22 at 23:39, Oleg Kobets wrote: I am behind a corporate firewall and need SSH. The firewall is MicroShit ISA server (AKA Microsoft Proxy 2.0) and the only access to the internet is via the above mentioned proxy. I must have SSH access to some other hosts out there and asking the admins is out of the question. I had the very same problem a couple of weeks ago and then I tried GNU httptunnel and it works really well (except for limitations stated in it's docs): http://www.gnu.org/software/httptunnel/httptunnel.html Mind you, after installing configuring and trying it I found out I actually do have a SOCK5 proxy available which you can SSH (and other protocols) through - I was just not aware of it - I wont be surprised if ISA supports SOCK4 or 5 as well - did you try it? Gilad. -- Gilad Ben-Yossef [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://benyossef.com Geeks rock bands cool name #8192: RAID against the machine = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Questions to RMS (was: Re: RMS, T'so and the LUG)
On Monday 23 December 2002 10:49, Dvir Volk wrote: the RMS visit is getting closer and closer. RMS does not strike me as the kind of guy that will postpone a visit over something silly like a little war... did you read this guy's political doc's?? :) tal. As well, it appears, as the war in Iraq. I just hope the whole event won't be canceled. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Questions to RMS (was: Re: RMS, T'so and the LUG)
Unless he's willing to swim here, if you believe the newspapers and remember the previous war, commercial flights will cease in case some objects start flying in unauthorized vertical paths. :-) Practical suggestion - let's just plan as if everything is going to be ok and at worst the plans will get cancelled. On Monday 23 December 2002 10:49, Dvir Volk wrote: the RMS visit is getting closer and closer. RMS does not strike me as the kind of guy that will postpone a visit over something silly like a little war... did you read this guy's political doc's?? :) = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Questions to RMS (was: Re: RMS, T'so and the LUG)
On Monday 23 December 2002 14:59, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: we are fully intended to do just that ;) tal. Unless he's willing to swim here, if you believe the newspapers and remember the previous war, commercial flights will cease in case some objects start flying in unauthorized vertical paths. :-) Practical suggestion - let's just plan as if everything is going to be ok and at worst the plans will get cancelled. On Monday 23 December 2002 10:49, Dvir Volk wrote: the RMS visit is getting closer and closer. RMS does not strike me as the kind of guy that will postpone a visit over something silly like a little war... did you read this guy's political doc's?? :) = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: questions for RMS
Quoting Amir Tal, from the post of Mon, 23 Dec: we are preparing a list of questions that will be used in an interview we are interested in conducting with RMS in his upcoming visit. I see many questions here about Linux and not GNU. don't piss the guy off for no reason. RMS has made public his hate of the fact that Linus allowes closed-source modules in the kernel and is in general not giving atention to keeping the kernel patches pure GPL (for those out of the loop - the kernel is full of bits of code borrowed from BSD, public domain, no-license and other questionable sources that do not all assure it's really GPL-ly correct to release under the GPL at all.) I suggest fixing all the questions about drivers for linux to drivers for free kernels. furthermore, I don't think IBM's laptop modems are any of his concern either. IBM has dropped support and pre-installation of Linux on workstations and laptop and are only selling it on server platforms. sad, but true. if they officially don't support it, you can't complain about their choices of hardware... * Sometimes, in order to be able to finish modifying software for which you have the source code, you need to be able to prove that your modification has no unintended consequences. Therefore you need access to a regression test suite. In view of the above, should such a regression test suite be considered as source code (meaning form in which is the easiest to modify the software) as far as GPL is concerned? If not, why not? if they are released as part of the tarball of the product source, then yes. if they are just tools for development, then their license has nothing to do with the license of the code they help create. same as using notepad.exe to write GPL code :) * about what's her name law offer to prevent government from buying non opensource things what's her name is MK Yofi Nehama Ronen. her offer doesn't address open standards but open source (which is already a problem) and suggests it should be forced, which is against what the freedom of choice is all about, in the base of the Free/Open philosophy. I'd say he'll agree with me it's a bad idea and should be revised. Nehama Ronen is obviously riding a wave she knows nothing about to get PR, but it's done in a very unprofessional and misguided way. the bottom line is that she can be ignored or corrected, but not encouraged with the current suggestion. * About what he think should be done to push linux in Israel and solve the Hebrew problem which stop so many people from using it. fix - enable more people use Free platforms. the answer from MY OWN POV, is education. promote the alternatives in the media and government through action in the Knesset and media publications. to that end there are very good solutions, like the obvious one - organize an Amuta of activists and start pushing it. no news here :) If I can guess what his personal reaction will be (not the official answer he might give), is localize the bloody programs or have the people learn a LTR language!. being the geeks that we are (well, the unix veterans among us), we can make do with a naked GUI, but the public wants a GUI, so make KDE/Gnome do the Bidi thing and make Koffice/OO/GnomeOffice workable before you try to push it. as simple as that. talking to the media and the knesset about ideals but showing no product is empty. we're lucky the knesset realized that financing Bidi OO is a good investment, so it's a great start. * What people can do to push linux into the education system. see above. have a Hebrew GUI and easy install (Linbrew?) with a working Office (OO?) and push Matakh to port to it. once you have the big educational software vendor hooked on the idea, and a good support infrastructure that knows how to set up school networks efficiaently (NFS root, diskless stations that boot into a software menu etc etc like schools do today with w2k/novell and matakh/edunetics/whatnot), and at prices saner than Xpert's. that's a startup, as we say. a Hebrew Linux platform that works like the terminal server project. it could be the killer app to turn the tables on the Israeli market... http://www.riverdale.k12.or.us/linux http://www.corozal.com/linux/ltsp.htm well I have one last which is not Israel related but I think it's important: * What plans they have to motivate hardware maker make drivers for linux, and why aren't they cooperating on the subject with other nix based OSs? again, my guess: we don't want their closed source drivers that are good only for a certain kernel. we want specs and possible an open source driver that can be adapted to any Free kernel (like Hurd, or BSD, which are both favored by RMS over Linux) * How do you feel about IBM Israel selling its R30 laptops only with Lucent AMR modems, that according to linmodems.org are definitely not supported? they are free to sell it, you are free not to buy it. * How do you feel about IBM selling
Location of IBM Linux Haifa event
Where IBM Linux seminar will be held ? In invitaion it says IBM laboratories in Haifa and on web page it's in Haifa University campus, Auditorium Both places are very close, yet there is still 30-40 minutes or so walking. Anybody does know the exact location ? Thanks. Michael. -- = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Perl] Googlism
Here is what it thinks about Bill Gates :- http://www.googlism.com/index.htm?ism=bill+gatestype=1 Worth a look ;-) - Original Message - From: Shlomo Yona [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 7:03 PM Subject: [Perl] Googlism Hello, Here is what Google thinks about Gabor: http://www.googlism.com/index.htm?ism=gabor+szabotype=1 -- Shlomo Yona [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://cs.haifa.ac.il/~shlomo/ ___ Perl mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.perl.org.il/mailman/listinfo/perl YAPC::Israel::2003 http://www.perl.org.il/YAPC/2003/ = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
uhmm
ftping from my pc to the uploads ftp of surceforge does not work either. but I have no problem with other sites. sugestions? -- Meir Michanie [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: uhmm
On Monday 23 December 2002 20:43, Meir Michanie wrote: ftping from my pc to the uploads ftp of surceforge does not work either. but I have no problem with other sites. sugestions? please elaborate on the either part. tal. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
A question about Opensource
I remember visiting the GNU site and getting lost there. I was searching for the guide: how to register a program as opensource GPL license. I am sure that it is more that just adding a comment on the sources. any pirate can rip it off, register the software and then take me to court saying that I stealed his code. at the other hand, how do you stop stupid ppl from registering garbage? -- Meir Michanie [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
problems with cvs in sourceforge
Hi there, I am developing my first opensource project http://sourceforge.net/projects/opentts with hebrew support. I am a newbie at cvs. After a short RTFMing I ask your help. I succeeded to release (commit a few versions of my software). I run: export CVS_RSH=ssh cvs -z3 -d:ext:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/cvsroot/opentts co opentts then I cd to the opentts dir, do some changes to files using vi. afterwards when I run cvs update it asks for my password and hangs there. what should I do? -- Meir Michanie [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
cvs problems.
Hi there, I am developing my first opensource project http://sourceforge.net/projects/opentts with hebrew support. I am a newbie at cvs. After a short RTFMing I ask your help. I succeeded to release (commit a few versions of my software). I run: export CVS_RSH=ssh cvs -z3 -d:ext:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/cvsroot/opentts co opentts then I cd to the opentts dir, do some changes to files using vi. afterwards when I run cvs update it asks for my password and hangs there. what should I do? -- Meir Michanie [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
cvs:this is what i get after a few minutes.
Read from remote host cvs.opentts.sourceforge.net: Connection timed out cvs [update aborted]: end of file from server (consult above messages if any) -- Meir Michanie [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
problems with cvs in sourceforge
i have no problems checking out. using the same username and password and using ssh as transport -- Meir Michanie [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: uhmm
ftp for the upload of releases not releated to cvs. On Mon, 2002-12-23 at 21:05, Tzafrir Cohen wrote: On 23 Dec 2002, Meir Michanie wrote: ftping from my pc to the uploads ftp of surceforge does not work either. but I have no problem with other sites. sugestions? sftp (ftp over ssh) or scp. I recall SorceForge had a policy against non-secure authentications. -- Meir Michanie [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
IJUG conference
I visited the IJUG (Israeli Java User Group) conference today and wrote a report about it on the Perl list. Instead of reposting here is the link to the archive. http://www.perl.org.il/pipermail/perl/2002-December/000827.html Gabor = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: A question about Opensource
On Mon, Dec 23, 2002 at 08:59:46PM +0200, Meir Michanie wrote: I remember visiting the GNU site and getting lost there. I was searching for the guide: how to register a program as opensource GPL license. There are few issues here: In most countries, the fact that you wrote something, by itself, gives you the right to decide what to do with it. So if you add a note saying This program is released under the terms of the GPL blah blah blah - by law, it is. You don't need to register anything anywhere. If you are afraid that someone will try to steal it from you, and assuming you don't have the financial resources to fight, you can ask someone else to help you - e.g., the FSF is willing to get the rights to GPL-licensed programs and will (naturally) defend it in court. (a few minutes to search for examples:) Well, I couldn't find official stuff on fsf.org, so I googled for transfer rights fsf, and the sixth result is from someone that wants to do just this. A follow-up from RMS explains how to do so. Note this is by no means a recommendation by me to do so. For one example why not to do so google for glibc takeover. Registereing something as opensource is completely different. If it's GPLed, it's automatically opensource. If you want to license it with a different license, one which is not yet approved, you have to ask the OSI for approval. I am sure that it is more that just adding a comment on the sources. any pirate can rip it off, register the software and then take me to court saying that I stealed his code. at the other hand, how do you stop stupid ppl from registering garbage? -- Meir Michanie [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Didi = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: A question about Opensource
On 23 Dec 2002, Meir Michanie wrote: I remember visiting the GNU site and getting lost there. I was searching for the guide: how to register a program as opensource GPL license. Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer GPL is a license: it details what right exactly other people have with a code (or whatever). But before you can license it to anybody, you have to establish the fact that it is yours to give/control: you have to state clearly that you are the copyrights owner. (The hebrew term: Zchuyot Yotsrim, creators rights, is actually a better name) I am sure that it is more that just adding a comment on the sources. You can also rip-off code from a number of other sources of available codes, where the license forbids you to (shared source, anybody). Assuming I try to take code from your project. If I take it to a GPL-ed project, there is no problem. So assume I want to use it in a non-GPL-ed project. As long as the project is entriely in-house, it is still legal. So again, lets assume that there is at least aresonable chance that the project will be used outside. Technically nothing stops me from using your code. However some day someone may notice strange a coinsidental similarity of the two projects. Be it by some strange functional similarity or maybe part of the code slipped out. Or maybe someone I work with doesn't like me. (Or maybe the BSA is after me, if we follow that line...). Anyway, in that case there are a number of options: * We (you and I) may settle violation by me releasing part of my code under the GPL (this is the FSF's favorite) * We may settle this by me stopping to distribute part of my code * On the worst case, I have violated your usage license, and you have grounds to sue me. I can't think of substantial damages, but maybe in specific cases there will be. (I've heard numerous times that the GPL is full of legal holes. But I'm not sure someone would take that chance) So once you have established your right on the code, it would probably be risky for anybody else to use it in violation of your license. any pirate can rip it off, register the software and then take me to court saying that I stole his code. So you have to have some evidence that you have released it earlier. Logs of your site, tarbals that others have downloaded, etc. may help. SourceForge and similar sites give a great facility to provide you with proofs. I don't figure anybody will take the chance. Anyway, there is a well-established regulation on copyrights. The issue here is who holds the copyrights. at the other hand, how do you stop stupid ppl from registering garbage? Nothing. The internet is full of garbage. Some of it even makes it into human-edited sites. -- Tzafrir Cohen mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.technion.ac.il/~tzafrir = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: A question about Opensource
On Mon, 23 Dec 2002, Tzafrir Cohen wrote: On 23 Dec 2002, Meir Michanie wrote: I remember visiting the GNU site and getting lost there. I was searching for the guide: how to register a program as opensource GPL license. Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer GPL is a license: it details what right exactly other people have with a code (or whatever). But before you can license it to anybody, you have to establish the fact that it is yours to give/control: you have to state clearly that you are the copyrights owner. (The hebrew term: Zchuyot Yotsrim, creators rights, is actually a better name) Copyright can be bought, sold, given away. The person who owns the copyright is not necessarily the author. Ownining the copyright does give someone the right to determine who can copy the work. Thanks, Uri http://translation.israel.net = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
alsa configuration
so i've decided not to let my tecra8000 laptop get away with it, and to give one last effort to making the sound work (which did work a few months ago with mandrake 8.2 and 2 years ago with windows.) machine : toshiba tecra8000 running kernel : 2.4.18-bf2.4 precompiled. sound chip :(YMF715E or YMF719E) loaded module : opl3-sa3 here's my lsmod : # lsmod |grep opl opl3sa2 7776 0 (autoclean) ad1848 20640 0 (autoclean) [opl3sa2] mpu401 18720 0 (autoclean) [opl3sa2] sound 52844 0 (autoclean) [opl3sa2 ad1848 mpu401] isa-pnp27400 0 (autoclean) [opl3sa2 ad1848] here's the latest opl3 related dmesg entries : # dmesg |grep opl opl3sa2: No PnP cards found opl3sa2: Search for a card at 0x1336. opl3sa2: chipset version = 0x5 opl3sa2: Found OPL3-SA3 (YMF715E or YMF719E) opl3sa2: Control I/O port 0x538 not free opl3sa2: There was a problem probing one of the ISA PNP cards, continuing opl3sa2: Control I/O port 0x538 not free opl3sa2: There was a problem probing one of the ISA PNP cards, continuing opl3sa2: Control I/O port 0x538 not free opl3sa2: There was a problem probing one of the ISA PNP cards, continuing and here's my modules.conf relevant entries : alias synth0 opl3 options opl3 io=0x388 note - for some reason, there's no sound device displayed in lspci. so the modules are loading with no errors in loading time, and dmesg seems to recognize the device, but i cant get sound to work, not with arts, not with alsa. (alsaconf says that it cant load module snd, and gives a bunch of ugly debug info.) HELP ! my fingers a bleeding from googling for information, and there's aint much info about that damm piece of crup out there ! (that damm old laptop, i need a new one!) :) -- == Tal Amir, Founder, Owner Whatsup, Hebrew Linux Portal. [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.whatsup.org.il ICQ : 15748705 == = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Location of IBM Linux Haifa event
Michael Sternberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Where IBM Linux seminar will be held ? In invitaion it says IBM laboratories in Haifa and on web page it's in Haifa University campus, Auditorium Both places are very close, yet there is still 30-40 minutes or so walking. Anybody does know the exact location ? IBM Haifa Research Labs are located on the Haifa U. campus on Mt. Carmel. I don't know where the 30-40 minutes walking came from. Please check the Visitors Information link on the HRL home page http://www.haifa.il.ibm.com or on the Haifa event page http://www.haifa.il.ibm.com/Workshops/gnulinux2003/ for directions. -- Oleg Goldshmidt | [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: cvs endind the thread.
If someone else has a problem with sourceforge tonight this may help. First at all, someone posted me that I am near to get /dev/null. I am not a newbie.And if I post here something it is because I know it is over the simple RTFM. It happens many times that I help other troubleshooting problems that their solution are far away from where they seems. I apologize for my previous emails that there where short sentences and without keeping a trail. Now, after I have a lead, I ask once again for some comments( you can read help). from my machine RH7.3 and another here RH8 behind a adsl alcatel patched (smile) I can ssh my isp, job, etc, EVEN myproject.sourceforge.net... trying to upload again to the public ftp at sourceforge I read a message that it says: THIS FTP SERVER HAS REACHED ITS USER LIMIT this explains why I can not upload releases files to the FTP. also if you consider that they sure use load balancing, it could explain why using cvs from my network at israel hangs, and from my station at the states works just fine. I do not know if I can fix the problem from here, I am sure I will find the work around in the meantime. I hope anyway that this post helped to show that sometimes troubleshooting or throwing rocks to the lake from different angles can give you an answer. I know what it means to be busted with newbies questions, that may be one of the reason I moved away from Windows.(if someone ask me how to use his outlook, I just smile and say, i do not know, I use RH) On Mon, 2002-12-23 at 22:13, Tzafrir Cohen wrote: Just a comment: Try to keep all the posts that are relevant to the same subject in the same thread (e.g: by repying to your message, at lease to put a refereces: field). This would help people group your messages together. Grouping all the relevant messages into a single one would have also helped, I figure. Did you find an answer to your problems in the docs? -- Meir Michanie [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: questions for RMS
furthermore, I don't think IBM's laptop modems are any of his concern either. IBM has dropped support and pre-installation of Linux on workstations and laptop and are only selling it on server platforms. sad, but true. if they officially don't support it, you can't complain about their choices of hardware... Oh certainly I can complain, even though there is not much point to it. However, getting Stallman into complaining is much more useful. Bureaucracies *love* to justify their actions by saying it is their official policy. I cannot change the Blue Giant's policy, but Stallman just might - or at least annoy his hosts a bit, as I wrote in my (private) mail to Tal. Dan. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: questions for RMS
On Mon, Dec 23, 2002, Ira Abramov wrote about Re: questions for RMS: * Sometimes, in order to be able to finish modifying software for which you have the source code, you need to be able to prove that your modification has no unintended consequences. Therefore you need access to a regression test suite. In view of the above, should such a regression test suite be considered as source code (meaning form in which is the easiest to modify the software) as far as GPL is concerned? If not, why not? if they are released as part of the tarball of the product source, then yes. if they are just tools for development, then their license has nothing to do with the license of the code they help create. same as using notepad.exe to write GPL code :) I don't agree, and I think the original questioner's question was good, though it can be broadened a bit. Remember, the GPL isn't just about having the code for free - it's also about being able to modify it. And for some types of code, you may need extra things, not just the source code, in order to *modify* (not compile!) the source code. Another example besides the test suites comes to my mind from my recent involvement in writing a Hebrew spell checker (by the way, expect another release in two weeks!). In that project we could have released only the final word lists used in the spell checker - not the automated word-inflection programs that were used to generate them. This will still leave the user with a working, 100% free software spell-checker. But it will not really allow the user to modify the spell-checker to, for example, check ktiv chaser, because that would require systematic changes to the word lists that are too late to do at that stage. It will also make it very hard for someone to add more words to the dictionary, basically making the original author a monopoly in improving the spellchecker. So sometimes it's not exactly clear what it means for something to be free software. In the hspell project we considered several variations, and finally decided to go with the free-est variation we could think of, and release *all* files we used to make the word lists, even if the GPL doesn't strictly require that. open standards but open source (which is already a problem) and suggests it should be forced, which is against what the freedom of choice is all about, in the base of the Free/Open philosophy. I'd say he'll agree with I'm not sure I agree with you here either. Freedom of choice is nice, but for individuals, *NOT* for government clerks. These should have no choice but to best serve the country. They should not be able to make choices that are bad for the country, just because they are the easiest choices for them personally, or they get kickback from making these choices. So forcing open source (or more accurately, standards that have an open source implementation, which is NOT the same as open standards, mind you) on the government might not be as absurd as it first seems. me it's a bad idea and should be revised. Nehama Ronen is obviously riding a wave she knows nothing about to get PR, but it's done in a very unprofessional and misguided way. the bottom line is that she can be ignored or corrected, but not encouraged with the current suggestion. How can she get PR from such a geeky issue? Besides the 200 geeks in this list and perhaps 500 other readers of ynet's computer section, not many people heard this PR. She could have gotten more PR from saying something about the unity of Jerusalem, settlements, or who knows what. Maybe, just maybe, she really cares about this issue? I don't know. see above. have a Hebrew GUI and easy install (Linbrew?) with a working Office (OO?) and push Matakh to port to it. once you have the big I hope Matakh stays the hell out of it. Matakh are the same people who developed the Rav-Millim spellchecker using your and my tax-shekels, and now are making money out of it (see rav-milim.co.il). Needless to say they didn't think of making it free software, thereby saving me many sleepless nights in the last couple of months :( * How do you feel about IBM Israel selling its R30 laptops only with Lucent AMR modems, that according to linmodems.org are definitely not supported? they are free to sell it, you are free not to buy it. And RMS is free not to come lecture at IBM. And yet he did. So maybe this kind of question is relevant after all (although I agree it sounds a bit too specific). there is a more interesting question here - since IBM is doing those things, how comfortable are you feeling that they are inviting you to speak in their favor in this conferrence day? would you take the opportunity to give a piece of your mind to your hosts on their double standard towards Open Source? Right. ok, now what happens if the entity that developped the proprietary extension is a department in my company, and I get the source. am I allowed too re-release
More questions for RMS
Currently, the FSF has title to lots of GPLed software and encourages independent developers of GPLed software to assign title to it, because it has the resources to defend the copyright in court, if necessary. Also, most of the GPLed software is released under Version 2 or any later version of the GPL. What will happen if: 1. Another gang succeeds RMS and his loyal supporters in FSF; and that gang is not as committed to the ideals of Free Software. Such a gang will eventually find a way to subvert the intentions of FSF in a way detrimental to the spirit of RMS and today's FSF and GPL. 2. What if someday the people controlling FSF release Version 5 of the GPL, which says that they (FSF) alone are allowed the rights; and other people have to pay royalties (e.g. to pay for court costs incurred by the need to defend GPL). 3. What if FSF is driven somehow to bankruptcy (even if due to no fault of its own) and its creditors take over all GPLed software assigned to it and re-release it under MS-like terms. --- Omer There is no IGLU Cabal. It was taken over and was driven into bankruptcy and its original goals were subverted. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
OT: about GPL (was: Re: questions for RMS)
On Tue, Dec 24, 2002 at 01:02:12AM +0200, Nadav Har'El wrote: On Mon, Dec 23, 2002, Ira Abramov wrote about Re: questions for RMS: * Sometimes, in order to be able to finish modifying software for which you have the source code, you need to be able to prove that your modification has no unintended consequences. Therefore you need access to a regression test suite. In view of the above, should such a regression test suite be considered as source code (meaning form in which is the easiest to modify the software) as far as GPL is concerned? If not, why not? if they are released as part of the tarball of the product source, then yes. if they are just tools for development, then their license has nothing to do with the license of the code they help create. same as using notepad.exe to write GPL code :) I don't agree, and I think the original questioner's question was good, though it can be broadened a bit. Remember, the GPL isn't just about having the code for free - it's also about being able to modify it. And for some types of code, you may need extra things, not just the source code, in order to *modify* (not compile!) the source code. Another example besides the test suites comes to my mind from my recent involvement in writing a Hebrew spell checker (by the way, expect another release in two weeks!). In that project we could have released only the final word lists used in the spell checker - not the automated word-inflection programs that were used to generate them. This will still leave the user with a working, 100% free software spell-checker. But it will not really allow the user to modify the spell-checker to, for example, check ktiv chaser, because that would require systematic changes to the word lists that are too late to do at that stage. It will also make it very hard for someone to add more words to the dictionary, basically making the original author a monopoly in improving the spellchecker. So sometimes it's not exactly clear what it means for something to be free software. In the hspell project we considered several variations, and finally decided to go with the free-est variation we could think of, and release *all* files we used to make the word lists, even if the GPL doesn't strictly require that. Maybe not strictly, maybe it won't stand in court, but it does say: The source code for a work means the preferred form of the work for making modifications to it. (around the middle of it). [long and interesting discussion snipped] -- Nadav Har'El| Tuesday, Dec 24 2002, 19 Tevet 5763 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |Corduroy pillows - they're making http://nadav.harel.org.il |headlines! = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Didi = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
get vesion update
hi, is there a way to get updated automaticly, when a new version of a program i use emerge? tnx kfir = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: questions for RMS
On Mon, Dec 23, 2002, Amir Tal wrote about questions for RMS: all, we are preparing a list of questions that will be used in an interview we are interested in conducting with RMS in his upcoming visit. Here's a question: You are highly regarded as a man of vision. Twenty years ago you announced your vision of free software, and much due to your actions (in the form of the GNU project) that vision has become a reality, more or less. This is why I'd be very interested to hear what is now your main vision, or goal, besides improving free software and deepening its penetration. Is it perhaps pushing for free (or at least less controlled) access to other types of content (books, music, movies, etc.)? Or perhaps improving society or our world through free software? Or something else altogether? -- Nadav Har'El| Monday, Dec 23 2002, 18 Tevet 5763 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |The path of least resistance is what http://nadav.harel.org.il |makes rivers and politicians crooked. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
