Nvidia Conclusion
Hetz: thanks for the info. As for the version of the driver, it may be stable for you, but I'm not sure it would be stable for me. So I'll ask at the forums, IRC channel, etc. The rest of the crowd: the Nvidia card came prepackaged with the computer, and I can't talk my father into replacing without a good enough reason. (he uses Windows there most of the time). So, switching to ATI is not an option. The reason I believe the current situation with Nvidia cards is sub-optimal is because: 1. I need to explictly download and build it whenever I upgrade the kernel (and possibly X as well). Mandrake does not ship it with their distro so they won't taint their distribution with a proprietary binary-only driver. 2. It cannot be made part of the kernel because of its nature, so upgrading a kernel is always a two step process. 3. It causes some problems. Like this one, or one on my previous computer where the X server completely freezed occasionally while the computer was working. Why should it? A Linux machine should work flawlessly 4. It taints the kernel and possibly make isolating problems a two-part process (removing the driver and then testing the untainted kernel). So, Nvidia Corp. has done a nice gesture to the i386 Linux users, but hasn't done enough. Linux compatibility is not enough. You still have to play by the rules of open-source. At the moment I don't have much time to try and reverse-engineer the driver. (and I'm not sure what's the legal status of it). Even so, without the SPEC, the re-created driver can still suffer from the same problems. Regards, Shlomi Fish -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Writing a BitKeeper replacement is probably easier at this point than getting its license changed. Matt Mackall on OFTC.net #offtopic. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Nvidia Conclusion
On Saturday 03 January 2004 10:09, Shlomi Fish wrote: Hetz: thanks for the info. As for the version of the driver, it may be stable for you, but I'm not sure it would be stable for me. So I'll ask at the forums, IRC channel, etc. The rest of the crowd: the Nvidia card came prepackaged with the computer, and I can't talk my father into replacing without a good enough reason. (he uses Windows there most of the time). So, switching to ATI is not an option. The reason I believe the current situation with Nvidia cards is sub-optimal is because: 1. I need to explictly download and build it whenever I upgrade the kernel (and possibly X as well). Mandrake does not ship it with their distro so they won't taint their distribution with a proprietary binary-only driver. Yep. They try to make it user-friendly as much as possible. Closed, and yet, easy to install. You just run the installer, and it compiles what needs to be compiled for you. 2. It cannot be made part of the kernel because of its nature, so upgrading a kernel is always a two step process. Upgrading a kernel is always more then two steps, anyhow. Besides checking that everything works. Upgrading NVidia's driver does not require re-configuration of X. 3. It causes some problems. Like this one, or one on my previous computer where the X server completely freezed occasionally while the computer was working. Why should it? A Linux machine should work flawlessly Usually the reason has to do with hardware competablility, and hardware inter-communication. Usually it's about the AGP. A tip (which solved a similar problem for me) - Add /etc/modules.conf: options agpgart agp_try_unsupported=1 It might solve the problem. It will avoid using NVidia's AGP driver, and use the kernel's AGP. 4. It taints the kernel and possibly make isolating problems a two-part process (removing the driver and then testing the untainted kernel). So, Nvidia Corp. has done a nice gesture to the i386 Linux users, but hasn't done enough. Linux compatibility is not enough. You still have to play by the rules of open-source. Some do, some don't. Under the condition, they try to be as accessible as possible for the huge veriaty of distributions. Not many closed-source vendors are, or even bother trying... At the moment I don't have much time to try and reverse-engineer the driver. (and I'm not sure what's the legal status of it). Even so, without the SPEC, the re-created driver can still suffer from the same problems. Regards, Shlomi Fish Ez. -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Writing a BitKeeper replacement is probably easier at this point than getting its license changed. Matt Mackall on OFTC.net #offtopic. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Nvidia Conclusion
On Saturday, Jan 3, 2004, at 10:09 Asia/Jerusalem, Shlomi Fish wrote: 1. I need to explictly download and build it whenever I upgrade the kernel (and possibly X as well). Mandrake does not ship it with their distro so they won't taint their distribution with a proprietary binary-only driver. Join Mandrake Club. It helps support Mandrake (and ensures you have that distro around for a while yet), and you get lots of benefits. One of them is commercial packages available only to club members. Nvidia drivers included. Herouth = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Nvidia Conclusion
On Sat, 3 Jan 2004, Herouth Maoz wrote: On Saturday, Jan 3, 2004, at 10:09 Asia/Jerusalem, Shlomi Fish wrote: 1. I need to explictly download and build it whenever I upgrade the kernel (and possibly X as well). Mandrake does not ship it with their distro so they won't taint their distribution with a proprietary binary-only driver. Join Mandrake Club. It helps support Mandrake (and ensures you have that distro around for a while yet), and you get lots of benefits. One of them is commercial packages available only to club members. Nvidia drivers included. I will as soon as I have a steady source of positive income. At the moment I'm a Technion student without a job supported by family. Regards, Shlomi Fish Herouth = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Writing a BitKeeper replacement is probably easier at this point than getting its license changed. Matt Mackall on OFTC.net #offtopic. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Beep Media Player / Hebrew song names
Hi, xmms is the last software left where I have to read hebrew backwards. I'm waiting for the gtk2 port for quite a long time and it won't go out, but apparently I'm not alone. Beep Media Player (BMP in short) is a fork from the xmms tree which already implements gtk2, and works pretty fine (with few bugs still, it's a beta). However.. I still cannot see my hebrew songs well: because now with gtk2/pango, it expects filenames/id3 in the unicode format, which I don't use (I assume most of us don't). I want to suggest the BMP team to add an option 'no unicode filenames'. I just don't know gtk2/pango too well and I'm not sure whether that's exactly what they should add in order to make us happy.. I assume they just have to use some iso8859-8-utf-8 converting function (because if we want pango to render it fine, with bidi, it should convert the non-unicode text to unicode). Anybody has something smart to say? - Oren = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Beep Media Player / Hebrew song names
On Sat, 3 Jan 2004, Oren Held wrote: Hi, xmms is the last software left where I have to read hebrew backwards. I'm waiting for the gtk2 port for quite a long time and it won't go out, but apparently I'm not alone. Beep Media Player (BMP in short) is a fork from the xmms tree which already implements gtk2, and works pretty fine (with few bugs still, it's a beta). However.. I still cannot see my hebrew songs well: because now with gtk2/pango, it expects filenames/id3 in the unicode format, which I don't use (I assume most of us don't). I want to suggest the BMP team to add an option 'no unicode filenames'. I just don't know gtk2/pango too well and I'm not sure whether that's exactly what they should add in order to make us happy.. I assume they just have to use some iso8859-8-utf-8 converting function (because if we want pango to render it fine, with bidi, it should convert the non-unicode text to unicode). Anybody has something smart to say? Most probably the best thing I can say is forget about that. And something smart is to write a few lines of python (really few) to convert your id3 tags to Unicode once for all. - Oren behdad = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Beep Media Player / Hebrew song names
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that people use UTF-8 filenames yet. A small test I've made shows that even KDE saves hebrew filenames in a non-unicode form. I think that Windows behaves in a similar way. On Sat, 2004-01-03 at 15:20, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: On Sat, 3 Jan 2004, Oren Held wrote: Hi, xmms is the last software left where I have to read hebrew backwards. I'm waiting for the gtk2 port for quite a long time and it won't go out, but apparently I'm not alone. Beep Media Player (BMP in short) is a fork from the xmms tree which already implements gtk2, and works pretty fine (with few bugs still, it's a beta). However.. I still cannot see my hebrew songs well: because now with gtk2/pango, it expects filenames/id3 in the unicode format, which I don't use (I assume most of us don't). I want to suggest the BMP team to add an option 'no unicode filenames'. I just don't know gtk2/pango too well and I'm not sure whether that's exactly what they should add in order to make us happy.. I assume they just have to use some iso8859-8-utf-8 converting function (because if we want pango to render it fine, with bidi, it should convert the non-unicode text to unicode). Anybody has something smart to say? Most probably the best thing I can say is forget about that. And something smart is to write a few lines of python (really few) to convert your id3 tags to Unicode once for all. - Oren behdad = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Nvidia Conclusion
On Sat, Jan 03, 2004 at 10:52:38AM +0200, Ez-Aton wrote: On Saturday 03 January 2004 10:09, Shlomi Fish wrote: Hetz: thanks for the info. As for the version of the driver, it may be stable for you, but I'm not sure it would be stable for me. So I'll ask at the forums, IRC channel, etc. The rest of the crowd: the Nvidia card came prepackaged with the computer, and I can't talk my father into replacing without a good enough reason. (he uses Windows there most of the time). So, switching to ATI is not an option. The reason I believe the current situation with Nvidia cards is sub-optimal is because: 1. I need to explictly download and build it whenever I upgrade the kernel (and possibly X as well). Mandrake does not ship it with their distro so they won't taint their distribution with a proprietary binary-only driver. Yep. They try to make it user-friendly as much as possible. Closed, and yet, easy to install. You just run the installer, and it compiles what needs to be compiled for you. As shlomi wrote in the post: it is not user friendly. They don't play well with the standard methods in linux distros. 2. It cannot be made part of the kernel because of its nature, so upgrading a kernel is always a two step process. Upgrading a kernel is always more then two steps, anyhow. Besides checking that everything works. Upgrading NVidia's driver does not require re-configuration of X. Two-step process. right: 1. rpm -ivh new_kernel_package 2. reboot Only after the reboot X might not work. 3. It causes some problems. Like this one, or one on my previous computer where the X server completely freezed occasionally while the computer was working. Why should it? A Linux machine should work flawlessly Usually the reason has to do with hardware competablility, and hardware inter-communication. Usually it's about the AGP. A tip (which solved a similar problem for me) - Add /etc/modules.conf: options agpgart agp_try_unsupported=1 It might solve the problem. It will avoid using NVidia's AGP driver, and use the kernel's AGP. Why do they use their own AGP code? What inpact does this have on performance? 4. It taints the kernel and possibly make isolating problems a two-part process (removing the driver and then testing the untainted kernel). So, Nvidia Corp. has done a nice gesture to the i386 Linux users, but hasn't done enough. Linux compatibility is not enough. You still have to play by the rules of open-source. Some do, some don't. Under the condition, they try to be as accessible as possible for the huge veriaty of distributions. Not many closed-source vendors are, or even bother trying... But it's not good enough. Maybe there's nothing better, but this is certainly sub-optimal. BTW: I have an nvidia adapter in my computer. I decided I won't bother with nvidia's drivers, and simply use the built-in ones. Hurts perormance, but increases stability and reduces the level of pain. -- Tzafrir Cohen +---+ http://www.technion.ac.il/~tzafrir/ |vim is a mutt's best friend| mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] +---+ = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Beep Media Player / Hebrew song names
On Sat, 2004-01-03 at 16:31, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that people use UTF-8 filenames yet. A small test I've made shows that even KDE saves hebrew filenames in a non-unicode form. That's the default in GNOME 2 and Fedora, and has been decided to be the future of the Linux. Don't forget, UTF-8 would replace ASCII! People don't write code so it'll work only in the future. People write code in order to give solutions for your current needs. Look at the wanted section in the newspaper. Many mainframe programmers are wanted. By your attitude, nobody would need Mainframe programmers in the 21th Century. Currently Debian's default is non-unicode and most people don't use unicode filenames. Yes, it might be (or might not be) different in 2006, but even then a minority would still use non-unicode filenames, and adding a feature to support them is not such a bad idea. - Oren = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Beep Media Player / Hebrew song names
On Sat, Jan 03, 2004 at 03:46:06PM +0200, Oren Held wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that people use UTF-8 filenames yet. A small test I've made shows that even KDE saves hebrew filenames in a non-unicode form. Okay, here's a short roundup on Unicode filenames: On (modern) FAT, NTFS and Joliet CDs, the filenames are always in Unicode format. On Unix filesystems, the filesystem makes no claims about the textual interpretation of the file name; each program can decide on its own. That's why a system-wide convention is needed. * GTK+ 1: GTK+ 1 will treat filenames according to your locale. If you use a UTF-8 locale (check with locale charmap), GTK+ 1 will consider the file names on disk to be in UTF-8 charset. * KDE: Same as GTK+ 1. You can force UTF8 file names despite a non-UTF8 locale by setting the KDE_UTF8_FILENAMES environment variable. * GTK+ 2: GTK+ 2 (and thus, GNOME 2) considers file names to be always in UTF-8 encoding unless you set the G_BROKEN_FILENAMES environment variable, in which case it resorts to GTK+ 1 behavior. * Mounting Unicode file systems: As I said, VFAT, NTFS and ISO9960 with Joliet specify the on-disk storage format to always be Unicode. When you mount them as Linux, you can choose to see the file names in UTF-8 encoding (with the utf8 mount option) or in any legacy encoding (with the iocharset mount option). I think that Windows behaves in a similar way. Windows NT-based operating systems (including Windows XP) always store file names as Unicode. However.. I still cannot see my hebrew songs well: because now with gtk2/pango, it expects filenames/id3 in the unicode format, which I Regarding file names, see above. Regarding ID3 tags: * ID3v1 tags don't specify a charset so they should be assumed to have the locale's charset. * ID3v2 tags specify their charset, either as Unicode or ASCII. * ASCII: By standard they have the ASCII charset, but for Real World compatibility they should be assumed to have the locale's charset. * Unicode: By standard. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Beep Media Player / Hebrew song names
first, ntfs is a unicode filesystem, file names are saved in unicode. in linux, the high level layers are supposed to decide whether saving in 8 bit, 16 bits,utf8 or even utf16. The kernel does not care about it. It's GLIBC's work to do that. If you have GLIBC 2.2, you should start mounting partitions as UTF8, it's backward compatible (no data is destroyed) and saved data will work everywhere. for example my disk-on-key is VFAT I use it on linux, and it works also on winXP, this is my line from fstab: none /mnt/removable supermount dev=/dev/sda1,fs=ext2:vfat,--,kudzu,iocharset=utf8 0 0 about the original problem: do you mean saving the id tags in mp3 as utf8 ? will winamp know how to handle this? (ogg saves data in unicode, so we are safe in this area) btw: I tried bmp, and it's dam unstable. resize the list window and it dies. last time i tired it could not handle mp3... i have a spec which makes an rpm from the cvs if anyone wants. http://iglu.org.il/pub/Hebrew/diego/beep-hebrew.png , 3 2004, 16:51,Oren Held: On Sat, 2004-01-03 at 16:31, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that people use UTF-8 filenames yet. A small test I've made shows that even KDE saves hebrew filenames in a non-unicode form. That's the default in GNOME 2 and Fedora, and has been decided to be the future of the Linux. Don't forget, UTF-8 would replace ASCII! People don't write code so it'll work only in the future. People write code in order to give solutions for your current needs. Look at the wanted section in the newspaper. Many mainframe programmers are wanted. By your attitude, nobody would need Mainframe programmers in the 21th Century. Currently Debian's default is non-unicode and most people don't use unicode filenames. Yes, it might be (or might not be) different in 2006, but even then a minority would still use non-unicode filenames, and adding a feature to support them is not such a bad idea. - Oren = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- diego, Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Beep Media Player / Hebrew song names
On Sat, 3 Jan 2004, Diego Iastrubni wrote: first, ntfs is a unicode filesystem, file names are saved in unicode. in linux, the high level layers are supposed to decide whether saving in 8 bit, 16 bits,utf8 or even utf16. The kernel does not care about it. It's GLIBC's work to do that. A small problem: Filenames cannot contain nul and slash characters, so no UTF-16 possible. If you have GLIBC 2.2, you should start mounting partitions as UTF8, it's backward compatible (no data is destroyed) and saved data will work everywhere. for example my disk-on-key is VFAT I use it on linux, and it works also on winXP, this is my line from fstab: none /mnt/removable supermount dev=/dev/sda1,fs=ext2:vfat,--,kudzu,iocharset=utf8 0 0 about the original problem: do you mean saving the id tags in mp3 as utf8 ? will winamp know how to handle this? (ogg saves data in unicode, so we are safe in this area) Don't know about winamp. Just guess it does. It passes it all to windows afterall. btw: I tried bmp, and it's dam unstable. resize the list window and it dies. last time i tired it could not handle mp3... i have a spec which makes an rpm from the cvs if anyone wants. http://iglu.org.il/pub/Hebrew/diego/beep-hebrew.png behdad = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Half hight PCI cards
I have a Half Height AGP card... After much searching, I recently bought an ATI radeon 9200SE half-height AGP card, made by club3d/powercolor. It came with a replacable bracket for the half-height mode and has a tv-out (composite :( - yuck ) . Look for it on zap.co.il - it's not hard to find, I don't want to advertise shops here. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Beep Media Player / Hebrew song names
On Sat, Jan 03, 2004 at 06:10:38PM +0200, Oren Held wrote: Hi, 10x, that was pretty informative. Now a question: In debian, do you use a unicode locale? Yes. I don't seem to have it nor find what to apt-get.. Run 'dpkg-reconfigure locales' and make sure en_US.UTF-8 UTF-8 is marked. Add LANG=en_US.UTF-8 to your /etc/environment, if it's not there already. (One tip: If you use Konsole as your terminal, you might want to make an exception for man and alias it to 'LANG=en_US man'. I'm not sure whether it's Konsole's or Groff's bug) = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Barak Cables over PPTP
Hi everyone, I'm trying to setup a dialer to Barak over PPTP (and Ethernet). Does someone have a ready-made script (for Mandrake 9.1) so that I don't have to mess with it myself? Also, instructions for how to make a connection sharing (not a gw) so another computer can use its own dialer will be appriciated. Thanx, Ittay -- === Ittay Dror ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) User Space Team, RD Qlusters Inc. +972-3-6081956 Fax: +972-3-6081841 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
