FW: How to accomodate the transformation of fribidi-config into pkg-config
From: oron actcom co il To: linux-il cs.huji ac il Subject: Re: How to accomodate the transformation of fribidi-config into pkg-config Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 10:30:21 +0300 On Sunday, 4 בJuly 2010 08:44:55 Ron Varburg wrote: 1) geresh The geresh package was written when there was a fribidi-config. It turns out that now days there is no longer fribidi-config. It looks like pkg-config does the job of fribidi-config. Do the following patches looks reasonable? How would you fix the following files: No need to guess. If you read the man page of pkg-config, there's a short and easy explanation how to integrate any pkg-config based library into any autoconf project. In configure.ac, all you need is: PKG_CHECK_MODULES([FRIBIDI], [fribidi= 0.19.2]) Than: 1) Makefile.in: === -FRIBIDI_CONFIG = @FRIBIDI_CONFIG@ +PKG_CONFIG = @PKG_CONFIG@ fribidi_cxxfla...@fribidi_cflags@ fribidi_li...@fribidi_libs@ CXXFLAGS=$(CXXFLAGS) $(FRIBIDI_CXXFLAGS) LDFLAGS=$(LDFLAGS) $(FRBIDI_LIBS) BTW, from your partial code it seems the configuration is based on very old autoconf version (e.g: they use configure.in instead of configure.ac) Maybe in this opportunity it would be best to update it to modern autoconf+automake implementation. _ Hotmail: שירות דואר אלקטרוני רב עוצמה בחינם עם האבטחה של Microsoft. https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=60969 ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
linux beivrit
Hey linux il and others In http://sos-linux.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/sos-linux/LinuxHebrew/ you'll find a small book for linux beginners in pdf format and doc format. anyone willing to send his reviews and remarks please send it to me to this email. please edit it in word and use track changes. access: Simply download file one at a time through the web interface. In case you wish to add an entire section, you'll be acknowledged. raz ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: linux beivrit
On 05/07/2010 15:16, Raz wrote: Hey linux il and others In http://sos-linux.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/sos-linux/LinuxHebrew/ you'll find a small book for linux beginners in pdf format and doc format. anyone willing to send his reviews and remarks please send it to me to this email. please edit it in word and use track changes. access: Simply download file one at a time through the web interface. In case you wish to add an entire section, you'll be acknowledged. raz ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il Word format for a linux group? A somewhat unfortunate choice considering group members will have access to word only if dual booting into windows ... Open office would have been a much better choice (or lyx, or latex or a few others) ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: linux beivrit
On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 3:34 PM, Micha mi...@post.tau.ac.il wrote: On 05/07/2010 15:16, Raz wrote: Hey linux il and others In http://sos-linux.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/sos-linux/LinuxHebrew/ you'll find a small book for linux beginners in pdf format and doc format. anyone willing to send his reviews and remarks please send it to me to this email. please edit it in word and use track changes. access: Simply download file one at a time through the web interface. In case you wish to add an entire section, you'll be acknowledged. raz ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il Word format for a linux group? A somewhat unfortunate choice considering group members will have access to word only if dual booting into windows ... Open office would have been a much better choice (or lyx, or latex or a few others) I tried open format. does not look good at all. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: linux beivrit
On 5 July 2010 22:34, Micha mi...@post.tau.ac.il wrote: Word format for a linux group? A somewhat unfortunate choice considering group members will have access to word only if dual booting into windows ... I beg to differ on this tiny point - installing Office (2007?) on Ubuntu 64 bit made it now become the default application for .docx format. Open office would have been a much better choice (or lyx, or latex or a few others) OOffice, AbiWord, Google Docs, anything but M$ Office is much more appropriate. I haven't used LyX but heard many times that it's great interface and since the format is LaTeX what could be better? --Amos ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: linux beivrit
On Mon, Jul 05, 2010, Raz wrote about Re: linux beivrit: Open office would have been a much better choice (or lyx, or latex or a few others) I tried open format. does not look good at all. Hi, A lot of things can be said against Open Office (although I personally disagree with most of them), but I don't see how you can say its output (I assume you don't mean its UI) doesn't look good. What didn't you like? The fonts? The default style or layout? Or what? In my experience, you can create beautiful documents in Open Office, and it's not harder to do so than with with Microsoft Office, so I wonder whater problems you are referring to. Anyway, it's probably too late now for this document (converting formats is a harder issue), but it's something to think about for your next document :-) -- Nadav Har'El| Monday, Jul 5 2010, 23 Tammuz 5770 n...@math.technion.ac.il |- Phone +972-523-790466, ICQ 13349191 |Boat: A hole in the water surrounded by http://nadav.harel.org.il |wood into which one pours money. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: linux beivrit
Hey Nadav When i started i tried to work with open office in Hebrew, but i simply spent too much time trying to fix things, indentation, merging pictures and so on. also, how can ask for people to send me their comments ? I did not see track changes. On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 4:18 PM, Nadav Har'El n...@math.technion.ac.il wrote: On Mon, Jul 05, 2010, Raz wrote about Re: linux beivrit: Open office would have been a much better choice (or lyx, or latex or a few others) I tried open format. does not look good at all. Hi, A lot of things can be said against Open Office (although I personally disagree with most of them), but I don't see how you can say its output (I assume you don't mean its UI) doesn't look good. What didn't you like? The fonts? The default style or layout? Or what? In my experience, you can create beautiful documents in Open Office, and it's not harder to do so than with with Microsoft Office, so I wonder whater problems you are referring to. Anyway, it's probably too late now for this document (converting formats is a harder issue), but it's something to think about for your next document :-) -- Nadav Har'El | Monday, Jul 5 2010, 23 Tammuz 5770 n...@math.technion.ac.il |- Phone +972-523-790466, ICQ 13349191 |Boat: A hole in the water surrounded by http://nadav.harel.org.il |wood into which one pours money. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: linux beivrit
Quoting Raz razi...@gmail.com: Hey Nadav When i started i tried to work with open office in Hebrew, but i simply spent too much time trying to fix things, indentation, merging pictures and so on. also, how can ask for people to send me their comments ? I did not see track changes. As a matter of fact, there is a track changes feature: Edit-changes-record. Herouth ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: linux beivrit
On 07/05/2010 04:31 PM, Raz wrote: Hey Nadav When i started i tried to work with open office in Hebrew, but i simply spent too much time trying to fix things, indentation, merging pictures and so on. also, how can ask for people to send me their comments ? I did not see track changes. It's under the Edit menu and it's called Changes. I tried making changes on one office suite and viewing/accepting/rejecting on the other - that also works. On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 4:18 PM, Nadav Har'El n...@math.technion.ac.il wrote: On Mon, Jul 05, 2010, Raz wrote about Re: linux beivrit: Open office would have been a much better choice (or lyx, or latex or a few others) I tried open format. does not look good at all. Hi, A lot of things can be said against Open Office (although I personally disagree with most of them), but I don't see how you can say its output (I assume you don't mean its UI) doesn't look good. What didn't you like? The fonts? The default style or layout? Or what? In my experience, you can create beautiful documents in Open Office, and it's not harder to do so than with with Microsoft Office, so I wonder whater problems you are referring to. Anyway, it's probably too late now for this document (converting formats is a harder issue), but it's something to think about for your next document :-) -- Nadav Har'El| Monday, Jul 5 2010, 23 Tammuz 5770 n...@math.technion.ac.il |- Phone +972-523-790466, ICQ 13349191 |Boat: A hole in the water surrounded by http://nadav.harel.org.il |wood into which one pours money. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il -- Thanks, Uri http://bruck.co.il Si fractum non sit, noli id reficere. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: linux beivrit
On 05/07/2010 15:52, Amos Shapira wrote: On 5 July 2010 22:34, Michami...@post.tau.ac.il wrote: Word format for a linux group? A somewhat unfortunate choice considering group members will have access to word only if dual booting into windows ... I beg to differ on this tiny point - installing Office (2007?) on Ubuntu 64 bit made it now become the default application for .docx format. How did you do that? Last time I checked wine didn't like it very much, not to mention the problems with using both Hebrew and English in the same document. Open office would have been a much better choice (or lyx, or latex or a few others) OOffice, AbiWord, Google Docs, anything but M$ Office is much more appropriate. I haven't used LyX but heard many times that it's great interface and since the format is LaTeX what could be better? --Amos ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: linux beivrit
So you decided to write in docx format and you expect people to review your work? I did not even looked at it because of the format. If you write it in OpenOffice even if it does not look the best, people may help you. The issue of how it looks can be fixed later. You may even work with simple text file to begin and later on transfer it to a good word processor to do the formatting. -- Ori Idan On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 4:31 PM, Raz razi...@gmail.com wrote: Hey Nadav When i started i tried to work with open office in Hebrew, but i simply spent too much time trying to fix things, indentation, merging pictures and so on. also, how can ask for people to send me their comments ? I did not see track changes. On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 4:18 PM, Nadav Har'El n...@math.technion.ac.il wrote: On Mon, Jul 05, 2010, Raz wrote about Re: linux beivrit: Open office would have been a much better choice (or lyx, or latex or a few others) I tried open format. does not look good at all. Hi, A lot of things can be said against Open Office (although I personally disagree with most of them), but I don't see how you can say its output (I assume you don't mean its UI) doesn't look good. What didn't you like? The fonts? The default style or layout? Or what? In my experience, you can create beautiful documents in Open Office, and it's not harder to do so than with with Microsoft Office, so I wonder whater problems you are referring to. Anyway, it's probably too late now for this document (converting formats is a harder issue), but it's something to think about for your next document :-) -- Nadav Har'El| Monday, Jul 5 2010, 23 Tammuz 5770 n...@math.technion.ac.il |- Phone +972-523-790466, ICQ 13349191 |Boat: A hole in the water surrounded by http://nadav.harel.org.il |wood into which one pours money. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: linux beivrit
In fact I'm having difficulties to find reviewers for my .odt files! I'm not aware of any public service provider nor university in Israel which accepts open document format in principle. But I'll be glad to be proven wrong. (It might be that a specific grader at your university accepts documents at .odt format, but in general the university does not support this format, as opposed to .doc format which is officially supported). But OpenOffice is capable of saving documents in the propriety .doc format, which is the de facto standard in Israel. And you can have your work reviewed that way. Another option is to print it to PDF, but it's rather clumsy, because the reviewer cannot edit directly your document. 2010/7/5 Ori Idan o...@helicontech.co.il So you decided to write in docx format and you expect people to review your work? I did not even looked at it because of the format. If you write it in OpenOffice even if it does not look the best, people may help you. The issue of how it looks can be fixed later. You may even work with simple text file to begin and later on transfer it to a good word processor to do the formatting. -- Ori Idan On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 4:31 PM, Raz razi...@gmail.com wrote: Hey Nadav When i started i tried to work with open office in Hebrew, but i simply spent too much time trying to fix things, indentation, merging pictures and so on. also, how can ask for people to send me their comments ? I did not see track changes. On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 4:18 PM, Nadav Har'El n...@math.technion.ac.il wrote: On Mon, Jul 05, 2010, Raz wrote about Re: linux beivrit: Open office would have been a much better choice (or lyx, or latex or a few others) I tried open format. does not look good at all. Hi, A lot of things can be said against Open Office (although I personally disagree with most of them), but I don't see how you can say its output (I assume you don't mean its UI) doesn't look good. What didn't you like? The fonts? The default style or layout? Or what? In my experience, you can create beautiful documents in Open Office, and it's not harder to do so than with with Microsoft Office, so I wonder whater problems you are referring to. Anyway, it's probably too late now for this document (converting formats is a harder issue), but it's something to think about for your next document :-) -- Nadav Har'El| Monday, Jul 5 2010, 23 Tammuz 5770 n...@math.technion.ac.il |- Phone +972-523-790466, ICQ 13349191 |Boat: A hole in the water surrounded by http://nadav.harel.org.il |wood into which one pours money. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: linux beivrit
And I totally forgot. It's kind of funny, but in the last OS course of the Open University (which is of course taught using Linux), the student were forced to use .doc format for their theoretical answers! On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 6:18 PM, Elazar Leibovich elaz...@gmail.com wrote: In fact I'm having difficulties to find reviewers for my .odt files! I'm not aware of any public service provider nor university in Israel which accepts open document format in principle. But I'll be glad to be proven wrong. (It might be that a specific grader at your university accepts documents at .odt format, but in general the university does not support this format, as opposed to .doc format which is officially supported). But OpenOffice is capable of saving documents in the propriety .doc format, which is the de facto standard in Israel. And you can have your work reviewed that way. Another option is to print it to PDF, but it's rather clumsy, because the reviewer cannot edit directly your document. 2010/7/5 Ori Idan o...@helicontech.co.il So you decided to write in docx format and you expect people to review your work? I did not even looked at it because of the format. If you write it in OpenOffice even if it does not look the best, people may help you. The issue of how it looks can be fixed later. You may even work with simple text file to begin and later on transfer it to a good word processor to do the formatting. -- Ori Idan On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 4:31 PM, Raz razi...@gmail.com wrote: Hey Nadav When i started i tried to work with open office in Hebrew, but i simply spent too much time trying to fix things, indentation, merging pictures and so on. also, how can ask for people to send me their comments ? I did not see track changes. On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 4:18 PM, Nadav Har'El n...@math.technion.ac.il wrote: On Mon, Jul 05, 2010, Raz wrote about Re: linux beivrit: Open office would have been a much better choice (or lyx, or latex or a few others) I tried open format. does not look good at all. Hi, A lot of things can be said against Open Office (although I personally disagree with most of them), but I don't see how you can say its output (I assume you don't mean its UI) doesn't look good. What didn't you like? The fonts? The default style or layout? Or what? In my experience, you can create beautiful documents in Open Office, and it's not harder to do so than with with Microsoft Office, so I wonder whater problems you are referring to. Anyway, it's probably too late now for this document (converting formats is a harder issue), but it's something to think about for your next document :-) -- Nadav Har'El| Monday, Jul 5 2010, 23 Tammuz 5770 n...@math.technion.ac.il |- Phone +972-523-790466, ICQ 13349191 |Boat: A hole in the water surrounded by http://nadav.harel.org.il |wood into which one pours money. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: linux beivrit
anyone interested odt format are uploaded to site. odt ,pdf and doc. On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 6:19 PM, Elazar Leibovich elaz...@gmail.com wrote: And I totally forgot. It's kind of funny, but in the last OS course of the Open University (which is of course taught using Linux), the student were forced to use .doc format for their theoretical answers! On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 6:18 PM, Elazar Leibovich elaz...@gmail.com wrote: In fact I'm having difficulties to find reviewers for my .odt files! I'm not aware of any public service provider nor university in Israel which accepts open document format in principle. But I'll be glad to be proven wrong. (It might be that a specific grader at your university accepts documents at .odt format, but in general the university does not support this format, as opposed to .doc format which is officially supported). But OpenOffice is capable of saving documents in the propriety .doc format, which is the de facto standard in Israel. And you can have your work reviewed that way. Another option is to print it to PDF, but it's rather clumsy, because the reviewer cannot edit directly your document. 2010/7/5 Ori Idan o...@helicontech.co.il So you decided to write in docx format and you expect people to review your work? I did not even looked at it because of the format. If you write it in OpenOffice even if it does not look the best, people may help you. The issue of how it looks can be fixed later. You may even work with simple text file to begin and later on transfer it to a good word processor to do the formatting. -- Ori Idan On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 4:31 PM, Raz razi...@gmail.com wrote: Hey Nadav When i started i tried to work with open office in Hebrew, but i simply spent too much time trying to fix things, indentation, merging pictures and so on. also, how can ask for people to send me their comments ? I did not see track changes. On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 4:18 PM, Nadav Har'El n...@math.technion.ac.il wrote: On Mon, Jul 05, 2010, Raz wrote about Re: linux beivrit: Open office would have been a much better choice (or lyx, or latex or a few others) I tried open format. does not look good at all. Hi, A lot of things can be said against Open Office (although I personally disagree with most of them), but I don't see how you can say its output (I assume you don't mean its UI) doesn't look good. What didn't you like? The fonts? The default style or layout? Or what? In my experience, you can create beautiful documents in Open Office, and it's not harder to do so than with with Microsoft Office, so I wonder whater problems you are referring to. Anyway, it's probably too late now for this document (converting formats is a harder issue), but it's something to think about for your next document :-) -- Nadav Har'El | Monday, Jul 5 2010, 23 Tammuz 5770 n...@math.technion.ac.il |- Phone +972-523-790466, ICQ 13349191 |Boat: A hole in the water surrounded by http://nadav.harel.org.il |wood into which one pours money. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: linux beivrit
On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 6:35 PM, Elazar Leibovich elaz...@gmail.com wrote: I don't understand what exactly are you saying, but in the open university the students were explicitly requested to use ONLY the MS word .doc format. Are you asking me ? I agree with you. actually, I written my master in latex and was forced to re-write in word. On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 6:27 PM, Raz razi...@gmail.com wrote: anyone interested odt format are uploaded to site. odt ,pdf and doc. On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 6:19 PM, Elazar Leibovich elaz...@gmail.com wrote: And I totally forgot. It's kind of funny, but in the last OS course of the Open University (which is of course taught using Linux), the student were forced to use .doc format for their theoretical answers! On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 6:18 PM, Elazar Leibovich elaz...@gmail.com wrote: In fact I'm having difficulties to find reviewers for my .odt files! I'm not aware of any public service provider nor university in Israel which accepts open document format in principle. But I'll be glad to be proven wrong. (It might be that a specific grader at your university accepts documents at .odt format, but in general the university does not support this format, as opposed to .doc format which is officially supported). But OpenOffice is capable of saving documents in the propriety .doc format, which is the de facto standard in Israel. And you can have your work reviewed that way. Another option is to print it to PDF, but it's rather clumsy, because the reviewer cannot edit directly your document. 2010/7/5 Ori Idan o...@helicontech.co.il So you decided to write in docx format and you expect people to review your work? I did not even looked at it because of the format. If you write it in OpenOffice even if it does not look the best, people may help you. The issue of how it looks can be fixed later. You may even work with simple text file to begin and later on transfer it to a good word processor to do the formatting. -- Ori Idan On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 4:31 PM, Raz razi...@gmail.com wrote: Hey Nadav When i started i tried to work with open office in Hebrew, but i simply spent too much time trying to fix things, indentation, merging pictures and so on. also, how can ask for people to send me their comments ? I did not see track changes. On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 4:18 PM, Nadav Har'El n...@math.technion.ac.il wrote: On Mon, Jul 05, 2010, Raz wrote about Re: linux beivrit: Open office would have been a much better choice (or lyx, or latex or a few others) I tried open format. does not look good at all. Hi, A lot of things can be said against Open Office (although I personally disagree with most of them), but I don't see how you can say its output (I assume you don't mean its UI) doesn't look good. What didn't you like? The fonts? The default style or layout? Or what? In my experience, you can create beautiful documents in Open Office, and it's not harder to do so than with with Microsoft Office, so I wonder whater problems you are referring to. Anyway, it's probably too late now for this document (converting formats is a harder issue), but it's something to think about for your next document :-) -- Nadav Har'El | Monday, Jul 5 2010, 23 Tammuz 5770 n...@math.technion.ac.il |- Phone +972-523-790466, ICQ 13349191 |Boat: A hole in the water surrounded by http://nadav.harel.org.il |wood into which one pours money. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: linux beivrit
Thank you very much for converting it to an open format. I have read the first part and find it written very easy to read, I liked it and will continue to read the rest. However in the first paragraph you said that someone coming from Windows will have the filling of going back in time, I don't understand why? Any time I see a Windows machine, I have a filling of going back in time, the graphical user interface of all popular distributions today is much more advanced then Windows so I do not understand why this is going back in time? As for CLI, I think it should be rephrased (I will think how later) to show that this is a very advanced interface and people should not be afraid of it. -- Ori Idan On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 6:27 PM, Raz razi...@gmail.com wrote: anyone interested odt format are uploaded to site. odt ,pdf and doc. On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 6:19 PM, Elazar Leibovich elaz...@gmail.com wrote: And I totally forgot. It's kind of funny, but in the last OS course of the Open University (which is of course taught using Linux), the student were forced to use .doc format for their theoretical answers! On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 6:18 PM, Elazar Leibovich elaz...@gmail.com wrote: In fact I'm having difficulties to find reviewers for my .odt files! I'm not aware of any public service provider nor university in Israel which accepts open document format in principle. But I'll be glad to be proven wrong. (It might be that a specific grader at your university accepts documents at .odt format, but in general the university does not support this format, as opposed to .doc format which is officially supported). But OpenOffice is capable of saving documents in the propriety .doc format, which is the de facto standard in Israel. And you can have your work reviewed that way. Another option is to print it to PDF, but it's rather clumsy, because the reviewer cannot edit directly your document. 2010/7/5 Ori Idan o...@helicontech.co.il So you decided to write in docx format and you expect people to review your work? I did not even looked at it because of the format. If you write it in OpenOffice even if it does not look the best, people may help you. The issue of how it looks can be fixed later. You may even work with simple text file to begin and later on transfer it to a good word processor to do the formatting. -- Ori Idan On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 4:31 PM, Raz razi...@gmail.com wrote: Hey Nadav When i started i tried to work with open office in Hebrew, but i simply spent too much time trying to fix things, indentation, merging pictures and so on. also, how can ask for people to send me their comments ? I did not see track changes. On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 4:18 PM, Nadav Har'El n...@math.technion.ac.il wrote: On Mon, Jul 05, 2010, Raz wrote about Re: linux beivrit: Open office would have been a much better choice (or lyx, or latex or a few others) I tried open format. does not look good at all. Hi, A lot of things can be said against Open Office (although I personally disagree with most of them), but I don't see how you can say its output (I assume you don't mean its UI) doesn't look good. What didn't you like? The fonts? The default style or layout? Or what? In my experience, you can create beautiful documents in Open Office, and it's not harder to do so than with with Microsoft Office, so I wonder whater problems you are referring to. Anyway, it's probably too late now for this document (converting formats is a harder issue), but it's something to think about for your next document :-) -- Nadav Har'El| Monday, Jul 5 2010, 23 Tammuz 5770 n...@math.technion.ac.il |- Phone +972-523-790466, ICQ 13349191 |Boat: A hole in the water surrounded by http://nadav.harel.org.il |wood into which one pours money. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: linux beivrit
On 07/05/2010 09:11 AM, Ori Idan wrote: Thank you very much for converting it to an open format. I have read the first part and find it written very easy to read, I liked it and will continue to read the rest. However in the first paragraph you said that someone coming from Windows will have the filling of going back in time, I don't understand why? I agree with Ori on both counts: Easy to read, but get rid of the going back in time part. Even if the CLI is an older interface, the tone is almost apologetic. I always tell my students not to start a presentation by apologizing for all the stuff they meant to have but ran out of time, or all the features that worked last night and broke since then. Just state clearly what it is. Avoid comparisons. We are not trying to prove that Linux is better than Windows on every feature and function. They are different, for different purposes and different users. If someone has picked up this book, they clearly already have an inclination to Linux. Accept this as a given, and proceed from there. I like it, and I will read more. Oh, and thanks for converting to ODT. DOC is just wrong in principle for this sort of work. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: linux beivrit
On 05/07/2010 18:18, Elazar Leibovich wrote: In fact I'm having difficulties to find reviewers for my .odt files! I'm not aware of any public service provider nor university in Israel which accepts open document format in principle. But I'll be glad to be proven wrong. (It might be that a specific grader at your university accepts documents at .odt format, but in general the university does not support this format, as opposed to .doc format which is officially supported). But OpenOffice is capable of saving documents in the propriety .doc format, which is the de facto standard in Israel. And you can have your work reviewed that way. Another option is to print it to PDF, but it's rather clumsy, because the reviewer cannot edit directly your document. First of all, you should stop top posting. It's frown upon in linux mailing lists even more than giving microsoft documents to linux users. Second, I don't know what field you are in, but at least in applied mathematics in Israel, I don't know anyone who knows what to do with a word document. odt is still a problem of course, but personally I refuse to send or receive office documents from people in the university, and they manage to send PDFs for whatever formatted documents they want to send or text otherwise. Very few things actually need to be formatted as it turns out (and even when they are, unless it is PDF it usually arrives in the wrong format). 2010/7/5 Ori Idan o...@helicontech.co.il mailto:o...@helicontech.co.il So you decided to write in docx format and you expect people to review your work? I did not even looked at it because of the format. If you write it in OpenOffice even if it does not look the best, people may help you. The issue of how it looks can be fixed later. You may even work with simple text file to begin and later on transfer it to a good word processor to do the formatting. -- Ori Idan On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 4:31 PM, Raz razi...@gmail.com mailto:razi...@gmail.com wrote: Hey Nadav When i started i tried to work with open office in Hebrew, but i simply spent too much time trying to fix things, indentation, merging pictures and so on. also, how can ask for people to send me their comments ? I did not see track changes. On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 4:18 PM, Nadav Har'El n...@math.technion.ac.il mailto:n...@math.technion.ac.il wrote: On Mon, Jul 05, 2010, Raz wrote about Re: linux beivrit: Open office would have been a much better choice (or lyx, or latex or a few others) I tried open format. does not look good at all. Hi, A lot of things can be said against Open Office (although I personally disagree with most of them), but I don't see how you can say its output (I assume you don't mean its UI) doesn't look good. What didn't you like? The fonts? The default style or layout? Or what? In my experience, you can create beautiful documents in Open Office, and it's not harder to do so than with with Microsoft Office, so I wonder whater problems you are referring to. Anyway, it's probably too late now for this document (converting formats is a harder issue), but it's something to think about for your next document :-) -- Nadav Har'El| Monday, Jul 5 2010, 23 Tammuz 5770 n...@math.technion.ac.il mailto:n...@math.technion.ac.il |- Phone +972-523-790466, ICQ 13349191 |Boat: A hole in the water surrounded by http://nadav.harel.org.il |wood into which one pours money. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il mailto:Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il mailto:Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: linux beivrit
On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 11:51 PM, Micha mi...@post.tau.ac.il wrote: On 05/07/2010 18:18, Elazar Leibovich wrote: [snipped] Another option is to print it to PDF, but it's rather clumsy, because the reviewer cannot edit directly your document. First of all, you should stop top posting. It's frown upon in linux mailing lists even more than giving microsoft documents to linux users. I apologize, I wasn't aware to this fact. Second, I don't know what field you are in, but at least in applied mathematics in Israel, I don't know anyone who knows what to do with a word document. Well, in undergraduate math courses in the open University they accepted homeworks as doc files. I sent it as PDF file, but then I wouldn't get any inline comments (and actually thus almost no comments at all). Because good free PDF-commenting tools are not available, or that the graders are not willing to use such a tools. WYSIWYG tools really shines for grading assignments. It's much easier to include comments in such a tool, and MS Word is the de facto standard. I agree that word is not ideal for mathematical notations (although in the latest versions it's better than TeX in some aspects IMHO), and anyhow TeX is the standard for papers and thesis. But it's still usable, and might be better for some purposes. If I'll send to anyone in the open university a short word document describing a proof - I know he'll be able to read it, and to easily edit it. If I'll send an .odt documents - I know for sure almost no one will be able to read that. I'll be surprised if in the Tel Aviv University many applied math professors are not able to read MS Word documents. odt is still a problem of course, but personally I refuse to send or receive office documents from people in the university, and they manage to send PDFs for whatever formatted documents they want to send or text otherwise. Very few things actually need to be formatted as it turns out (and even when they are, unless it is PDF it usually arrives in the wrong format). 2010/7/5 Ori Idan o...@helicontech.co.il mailto:o...@helicontech.co.il So you decided to write in docx format and you expect people to review your work? I did not even looked at it because of the format. If you write it in OpenOffice even if it does not look the best, people may help you. The issue of how it looks can be fixed later. You may even work with simple text file to begin and later on transfer it to a good word processor to do the formatting. -- Ori Idan On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 4:31 PM, Raz razi...@gmail.com mailto:razi...@gmail.com wrote: Hey Nadav When i started i tried to work with open office in Hebrew, but i simply spent too much time trying to fix things, indentation, merging pictures and so on. also, how can ask for people to send me their comments ? I did not see track changes. On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 4:18 PM, Nadav Har'El n...@math.technion.ac.il mailto:n...@math.technion.ac.il wrote: On Mon, Jul 05, 2010, Raz wrote about Re: linux beivrit: Open office would have been a much better choice (or lyx, or latex or a few others) I tried open format. does not look good at all. Hi, A lot of things can be said against Open Office (although I personally disagree with most of them), but I don't see how you can say its output (I assume you don't mean its UI) doesn't look good. What didn't you like? The fonts? The default style or layout? Or what? In my experience, you can create beautiful documents in Open Office, and it's not harder to do so than with with Microsoft Office, so I wonder whater problems you are referring to. Anyway, it's probably too late now for this document (converting formats is a harder issue), but it's something to think about for your next document :-) -- Nadav Har'El| Monday, Jul 5 2010, 23 Tammuz 5770 n...@math.technion.ac.il mailto:n...@math.technion.ac.il |- Phone +972-523-790466, ICQ 13349191 |Boat: A hole in the water surrounded by http://nadav.harel.org.il |wood into which one pours money. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il mailto:Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il mailto:Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
Re: linux beivrit
On 06/07/2010 00:15, Elazar Leibovich wrote: On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 11:51 PM, Micha mi...@post.tau.ac.il mailto:mi...@post.tau.ac.il wrote: On 05/07/2010 18:18, Elazar Leibovich wrote: [snipped] Another option is to print it to PDF, but it's rather clumsy, because the reviewer cannot edit directly your document. First of all, you should stop top posting. It's frown upon in linux mailing lists even more than giving microsoft documents to linux users. I apologize, I wasn't aware to this fact. Second, I don't know what field you are in, but at least in applied mathematics in Israel, I don't know anyone who knows what to do with a word document. Well, in undergraduate math courses in the open University they accepted homeworks as doc files. I sent it as PDF file, but then I wouldn't get any inline comments (and actually thus almost no comments at all). Because good free PDF-commenting tools are not available, or that the graders are not willing to use such a tools. WYSIWYG tools really shines for grading assignments. It's much easier to include comments in such a tool, and MS Word is the de facto standard. Well, I tell my students not to bother sending me word documents as I can't read them. They either scan them or learn a better notation. However they send it though I send the answers back in pseudo latex notation and they seem to be just fine with it. I agree that word is not ideal for mathematical notations (although in the latest versions it's better than TeX in some aspects IMHO), and anyhow TeX is the standard for papers and thesis. But it's still usable, and might be better for some purposes. If I'll send to anyone in the open university a short word document describing a proof - I know he'll be able to read it, and to easily edit it. If I'll send an .odt documents - I know for sure almost no one will be able to read that. I'll be surprised if in the Tel Aviv University many applied math professors are not able to read MS Word documents. Quite a few moved to mac, several others are using linux. I know quite a few who won't bother to open a word document. I don't know any who use it themselves for their own work. I know of one person in physics who has his secretary type it his documents in word, but that is it. After constant nagging (I don't know if it's just me or also others), announcements and letters from the rector and such are usually sent in both word and pdf as well. All the emails I have with colleagues are either latex documents or text emails using latex notation. I'm not aware of a journal or conference in my field that doesn't prefer and greatly encourage latex. Quite a few won't accept anything else (some of them take PDF so you can bypass that). Like I mentioned earlier, I like lyx, as it uses a latex backend but enables WYSIWYG editing of math and such and it is very configurable. Whenever I do the mistake of playing around with microsoft I get angry and dump it rather quickly. It got to a point that I took old exercises that I wanted to update one question in, and after wasting a couple of hours modifying a single equation I would copy the whole thing to lyx in a quarter of the time and get it over with. Only thing I'm not sure yet is presentations. I usually use beamer, but there are a few things that powerpoint can be nicer, although you have to be very very very careful as to how you use it so that you don't abuse it. But again, whenever equations come into play, it's back to latex (or using a latex plugin for powerpoint) odt is still a problem of course, but personally I refuse to send or receive office documents from people in the university, and they manage to send PDFs for whatever formatted documents they want to send or text otherwise. Very few things actually need to be formatted as it turns out (and even when they are, unless it is PDF it usually arrives in the wrong format). 2010/7/5 Ori Idan o...@helicontech.co.il mailto:o...@helicontech.co.il mailto:o...@helicontech.co.il mailto:o...@helicontech.co.il So you decided to write in docx format and you expect people to review your work? I did not even looked at it because of the format. If you write it in OpenOffice even if it does not look the best, people may help you. The issue of how it looks can be fixed later. You may even work with simple text file to begin and later on transfer it to a good word processor to do the formatting. -- Ori Idan On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 4:31 PM, Raz razi...@gmail.com mailto:razi...@gmail.com mailto:razi...@gmail.com mailto:razi...@gmail.com wrote: Hey Nadav When i started i tried to work with open office in Hebrew, but i
Re: linux beivrit
On Mon, Jul 05, 2010 at 03:16:38PM +0300, Raz wrote: Hey linux il and others In http://sos-linux.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/sos-linux/LinuxHebrew/ you'll find a small book for linux beginners in pdf format and doc format. anyone willing to send his reviews and remarks please send it to me to this email. please edit it in word and use track changes. access: Simply download file one at a time through the web interface. In case you wish to add an entire section, you'll be acknowledged. Looks nice. A few points: 1. What's the point in keeping all of those files under version control? Why not just use some FTP directory? 2. The book seems to use screenshots extensively. I can't copy text from a screenshot. Please try to use actual text rather than a screenshot if the window in case is a terminal. This will also greatly reduce the size of the file (well, not really, as you keep all the history in the file). 3. You write about ls: ls מקבלת תווים מיוחדים שתפקידם לייצג תבנית חיפוש , סימן הכוכב* מייצג מספר כלשהו של תווים I hope you explain later on that this is not ls that interperts those wildcards. 4. rar is in the same class as tar (archiver) not as gzip (simpple file/stream compressor). Nobody really uses rar, and there's really no use mentioning it (you have not mentioned rar-nonfree and where exactly rar 3.x archives are supported. Let's just avoid the topic altogether). Maybe consider mentioning zip / unzip. One other question: does Docbook work well for Hebrew? Anybody tried it? -- Tzafrir Cohen | tzaf...@jabber.org | VIM is http://tzafrir.org.il || a Mutt's tzaf...@cohens.org.il || best tzaf...@debian.org|| friend ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: linux beivrit
On Tue, Jul 6, 2010 at 1:12 AM, Micha mi...@post.tau.ac.il wrote: On 06/07/2010 00:15, Elazar Leibovich wrote: On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 11:51 PM, Micha mi...@post.tau.ac.il mailto:mi...@post.tau.ac.il wrote: On 05/07/2010 18:18, Elazar Leibovich wrote: [snipped] WYSIWYG tools really shines for grading assignments. It's much easier to include comments in such a tool, and MS Word is the de facto standard. Well, I tell my students not to bother sending me word documents as I can't read them. They either scan them or learn a better notation. However they send it though I send the answers back in pseudo latex notation and they seem to be just fine with it. I just want to make sure I understand you correctly. When you receive a, say, PDF document for grading, you do *not* include inline comments, but you write all the comments in a separate text document, and send that to the client. I personally hate to do that when grading. When I graded a course in algorithm, I used Foxit Reader to include inline comments in tex-like notation to the PDF, and it was pretty OK. BTW, I really urge you to look at the latest version of MS Word's equation editor. It is much much better now. It's really comparable to LyX (very similar interface, equations are inline, typing ^ or _ gives you superscript or subscript, \sum gives big sigma, \int gives an integral, equations are really inline now, unlike in previous versions etc.). You'll never use MS Word probably, but I really think it's worth exploring it for the sake of the innovative ideas there are in the new MS Word equation editor. I attach two links to PDFs which explains the rational behind MS Word's new equations editor http://www.unicode.org/notes/tn28/UTN28-PlainTextMath-v2.pdf http://www.activemath.org/workshops/MathUI/07/proceedings/Sargent-TwoSyntaxes-MathUI07.pdfhttps://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.activemath.org%2Fworkshops%2FMathUI%2F07%2Fproceedings%2FSargent-TwoSyntaxes-MathUI07.pdf ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: linux beivrit
On 5 July 2010 15:16, Raz razi...@gmail.com wrote: Hey linux il and others In http://sos-linux.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/sos-linux/LinuxHebrew/ you'll find a small book for linux beginners in pdf format and doc format. anyone willing to send his reviews and remarks please send it to me to this email. please edit it in word and use track changes. access: Simply download file one at a time through the web interface. In case you wish to add an entire section, you'll be acknowledged. How exactly would you like me to run Word in Linux? Wine? -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: linux beivrit
On 5 July 2010 16:31, Raz razi...@gmail.com wrote: Hey Nadav When i started i tried to work with open office in Hebrew, but i simply spent too much time trying to fix things, indentation, merging pictures and so on. also, how can ask for people to send me their comments ? I did not see track changes. If you let us know specifically what problem you had, such that we can reproduce it, one of us (likely me) will file bugs and see that it gets fixed. I use Open Office in Hebrew fairly regularly and don't have the problems that you mention, but I might just be used to it's quirks. Write down step by step instructions about what you tried and what happened, and I'll test. Thanks. -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: linux beivrit
On 5 July 2010 15:52, Amos Shapira amos.shap...@gmail.com wrote: I beg to differ on this tiny point - installing Office (2007?) on Ubuntu 64 bit made it now become the default application for .docx format. And does it work with Hebrew? The last time I tried, Hebrew in Wine was a real problem. -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: linux beivrit
On 5 July 2010 18:27, Raz razi...@gmail.com wrote: anyone interested odt format are uploaded to site. odt ,pdf and doc. I just took a look at the odt version. 1) The downloads are confusing. What are the different lin_heb_* files? Revisions? But I see that you are using SF version control, too. Use either filename revisions or version control, not both. Which of them do you suppose that I downloaded? Do you expect every commenter to outline version 5, revision 385? 2) Nice to see that you are using KDE! Assuming that you are using either 4.4 or 4.5, then I invite you to email me personally regarding KDE bugs that you find. 3) The text seems to be a lazy translation from English. What is the word אינפורמציה? Write in Hebrew or write in English, but don't write English in Hebrew letters and call it Hebrew. 4) I would replace the console output screenshots with text where possible. This is debatable, of course. You can google the reasons for using text instead of images, I won't get into all that here. It is a common topic. 5) Good luck! -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
