Re: HP OfficeJet Pro 8023
On Sunday, 24 December 2023 10:13:47 IST Shachar Shemesh wrote: > HP work on Linux using proprietary drivers. It's a mixed bag. Are you sure? * Their HPLIP[1] suite is developed by HP and are distributed as GPL-2+ * I've used several HP printers over the years, mostly with Fedora and sometimes from Debian (for different reasons, both distributions are very careful not to bundle proprietary software) * For most reasonable printers in the last years, the word "driver" actually refers to PPD file * When configuring HPLIP/CUPS, there is a huge list of available models -- here is a small part of Fedora's HPLIP package: > ... > /usr/share/ppd/HP/hp-officejet_8010_series.ppd.gz > /usr/share/ppd/HP/hp-officejet_8020_series.ppd.gz > /usr/share/ppd/HP/hp-officejet_8040_series.ppd.gz > /usr/share/ppd/HP/hp-officejet_8700.ppd.gz > /usr/share/ppd/HP/hp-officejet_9010_series.ppd.gz > /usr/share/ppd/HP/hp-officejet_9100_series-pcl3.ppd.gz > /usr/share/ppd/HP/hp-officejet_color_mfp_x585.ppd.gz > /usr/share/ppd/HP/hp-officejet_color_x555-ps.ppd.gz > ... (sometimes I had to pick a model from the same family, because I didn't have the exact model number) * Most HP (and other vendors) printers support PCL and/or Postscript/PDF (on a simple "Jetdirect" port 9100, no special driver) On a separate note, if you buy a printer in the last two years -- look for the "*AirPrint*" logo (and "*AirScan*" if it has a scanner): * These are Apple brands for "*Driverless*" printing (and scanning, respectively) * Like some other Apple technologies, these proprietary implementation has an open specification. * So if your distribution is modern (Debian-12 "bookworm", cough, cough) -- it works out of the box. * A nice bonus is that people can print directly from many Cellphone (not only iPhones, also Android) Bye, -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 Reality must take precedence over public relations, for Mother Nature cannot be fooled. -- R.P. Feynman [1] https://packages.debian.org/bookworm/hplip ___ Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il
Re: single threaded web servers
On יום שלישי, 28 ביוני 2016 11:04:49 IDT Erez D wrote: > i tried searching the web but got no result > > what web servers other than node.js are single threaded ? lighttpd. > anyone has experience with one ? Used it in old embedded product. > is there one in which the cgi is in c++ ? By definition, CGI can be written in anything you like. You can write server extensions (in C/C++) -- not especially hard. Bye, -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron "There are lies, damned lies, and statistics" -- Benjamin Disraeli "...and benchmarks" -- Garry Hodgson ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
[JOB-OFFER] Linux devops people for embedded
Hi, Below is a verbatim copy forwarded directly from the related company please answer directly to them. -- Forwarded Message -- Do you breath, eat and drink LINUX? If the answer is yes, HARMONIC IS LOOKING FOR YOU! HARMONIC, the worldwide leader in video delivery infrastructure solutions is offering a challenging position in DEVOPS development in our site in Caesarea. So if you got passion to LINUX and want to specialize in a great atmosphere and you answer the below requirements, please send us your CV to: j...@harmonicinc.commailto:j...@harmonicinc.com * B.Sc in Computer science from a known university * 0-3 years of experience in SW development * 2-3 years of extensive experience in a LINUX environment and with C / C++ Programming * Experience in DEVOPS development, Configuration Management (e.g. SVN), Scripting languages (e.g. Bash, Python) – advantage For more information about Harmonic: http://www.harmonicinc.com/content/your-career-here -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron Linux lasts longer! -- Kim J. Brand k...@kimbrand.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: console widgets without X
Hi, On Monday 16 June 2014 20:34:09 Oleg Goldshmidt wrote: But, console only! What are my options for such an application? Is there any toolkit capable of presenting a nice-looking form withut X? In 2001 I used OpenGUI (http://www.tutok.sk/fastgl). It now seems orphaned (Last release in 2007), but: * Looks very nice: http://www.tutok.sk/fastgl/screens.htm * Can be compiled for: - Linux VGA-framebuffer (several resolutions) - X11 - Windows * Support OpenGL (on all these targets) Fork it for maintenance? -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron .--. |o_o | |:_/ | // \ \ (| | ) /'\_ _/`\ \___)=(___/ ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: detecting what does a reboot
On Sunday 08 June 2014 22:43:49 ik wrote: We ruled out that it happens from hardware, and at the messages log, you see a normal reboot, we just can't place the finger who or what does it. It's easy to confirm/reject that's the reboot command itself: * Move original command to new name (e.g: /sbin/reboot.orig) * Put in its place (e.g: /sbin/reboot) a short script. * The script would simply run: pstree -p /root/reboot.log Look at the process hierarchy in the log to find the culprit. If this log isn't generated, that means somebody doesn't run reboot but do an equivalent operation from software... -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron “If I have seen a little further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants. --Isaac Newton. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Recommendations for an all-in-one printer/fax/scanner?
On Sunday 18 August 2013 10:41:38 Omer Zak wrote: I would say that today it's anything but HP - unless things changed for the better during the last two or so years. Really? Let's debunk this baseless paragraph... * I'll start with personal and therefore anecdotal experience: - HP LaserJet-5L (yes, in the 90's) -- still with old 'lpr' - Later two HP-DeskJet's -- forgot which exact models - Than an All-In-One (HP-PSC-1210, USB connection) - Currently an All-In-One HP-OfficeJet-6313 (Using Ethernet) In terms of Linux support: - HP maintains HPLIP support since ~2005 - All is FOSS (GPLv2, BSD, MIT) - As a result, it's included in all major distributions. - So it works out of the box. - It supports all functions: - Printing (via CUPS) - Scanning (via a SANE plugin, so you can scan directly from LibreOffice, Gimp, etc.) - Faxing (scanning + some glue FOSS code in python). - Reading ink-levels, calibrating, etc. - If you encounter bugs, your distro developers can actually do something about it. Here are HPLIP bugs for Fedora/RHEL: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/buglist.cgi?component=hplip I am an happy user of the Brother MFC-490W printer-FAX-scanner-copier. * Can you enlighten us where did you get the drivers? (for ALL functions). * I did google'd and found deb/rpm BINARIES for this printer in Brother's site. * Are there FOSS-licensed sources? (not hidden behind click-walls) -- this is the only interesting question. Bye, -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron Software is like Entropy: it's hard to grasp, weighs nothing and obeys the Second Law of Thermodynamics, i.e. it always increases -- Norman Augustine ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: linking problems with several static libraries
On Wednesday 10 July 2013 21:31:51 Diego Iastrubni wrote: I have been figthing this nice problem at work, which I would like someone to help me. Basically, I have several static libs (liba... libk) which I need to link to my program. My program needs liba, which in turn needs libb.. which in turn needs libk. The last libk needs symbols from liba.. and this is where it gets funky. While linking g++ complains that symbols are missing ... and from ar+nm I see that those symbols are avarilable on liba. * Omer Zak correctly replied that this circular dependency represent bad design of the libraries authors. * But don't despair yet... see below. My solution was to g++ -o blabla $(OBJS) liba.a libb.a l...libk.a liba.a I know that using -L -l does not work as well, at I do need to link liba.a twice. * It has nothing to do with '-L' which just adds directories to the search path * It's because the linker in Linux (and all Unix systems I've encountered) is a single pass one. * So in general the linking *order* matters -- and circular dependency suck. * But... there are several workarounds for such brain-dead situations. * Workaround 1: - List libraries multiple times, like you did - It does exactly what you want - But if the dependency graph is more complex... you'd have to work harder to find the correct repetitions and order :-( * Workaround 2: - Pass the '--whole-archive' option to 'ld' If you link via gcc, just tell it to pass this option to the linker via '-Wl' option: '-Wl,--whole-archive' - You don't need to think at all about all these cycles, but - The complete set of libraries gets into your executable (even unused data and code) -- so you typically generate very big executable (yes, doing things the dumb way has its price). * Workaround 3: - This is a partial workaround 2 solution. - Let's say only a subset of the libraries has this cyclic dependency problem - Than you can use the linker '--start-group', '--end-group' options: ld libx.a liby.a --start-group libbad1.a libbad2.a --end-group libz.a Or, let the programmers deal with the results of their bad design and reorganize the code in the libraries -- after all a library should contain related and well defined functionality -- the cycles just shows that somebody just threw pieces of code to different libraries. Enjoy, -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron UNIX is user friendly. It's just selective about who its friends are. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Two job proposals: Linux developer and Linux tech-support
Hi, This is on behalf of someone that isn't subscribed to this mailing-list. Please direct all questions/applications to j...@yaad.org.il directly and not me. cut-here-cut-here- A company in the Galilee (Misgav/Carmiel) is seeking energetic applicants with Linux and Android experience for the following two positions: 1. Application developer for Linux, Android and web technologies. 2. Tech-support for Linux based communication systems. Please send CV with details about your experience on the relevant domains. Proven track record in FOSS projects is an advantage. cut-here-cut-here- Bye, -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron Your fair use of this book is restricted You may only read this book once ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Two job proposals: Linux developer and Linux tech-support
Hi, On Monday 20 May 2013 21:43:20 Jonathan Ben Avraham wrote: j...@yaad.org.il: host yaad.org.il[50.22.11.22] said: 550 No Such User Here (in reply to RCPT TO command) Sorry about the mistake, it should have been jobs@... rather than job@... (plural). However, they've just setup new mail alias, so now both addresses can be used. Thanks, -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron Normally the saying is: 'Fast, Reliable, Cheap. Pick any two.' But with Linux you can pick all three! --from a Slashdot post ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Using git on / for configuration files
On Friday, 8 בJune 2012 12:24:55 Eli Billauer wrote: blockquote type=cite pre wrap=What I liked less, is that the repository is under /etc (not surprising, and still), so configuration files outside that directory can't be tracked. /var/lib/tftpboot/pxelinux.cfg/, for example. /pre /blockquote pre wrap= [ Replying to HTML mail... thanks, Eli you deserve it :-( ] If you only want to follow a couple of directories/files you can bind-mount them to something under /etc and solve the problem. Cheers, -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron Some people claim that the UNIX learning curve is steep, but at least you only have to climb it once ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Using git on / for configuration files
On Wednesday, 6 בJune 2012 12:57:06 Eli Billauer wrote: Hi all, I'd just like to get your input before I do something stupid. The idea, anyhow, is to create a git repository on my system's root directory, and add many of the system's configuration files (e.g. some of /etc/) for tracking. If you want this route, why re-invent the wheel? http://joeyh.name/code/etckeeper This sounds a bit bizarre even to me, but my question is: Do you see anything bad that could happen? Personally, for many years I'm maintaining a *selection* of /etc files in RCS (i.e: create /etc/RCS, /etc/sysconfig/RCS, etc.) Why this bizzare selection? * Originally, I used it also on many legacy Unices (HP-UX, Solaris, SGI) and it's the easiest solution I can install on a variety of OS's * A more important feature (IMO), is that RCS is handling only single files. This means that checking out an older version of specific file, cannot change (by mistake), other managed files. I was also thinking about moving to etckeeper (or similar) solution, but didn't do anything about it yet... -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron Hi! I'm a .signature virus! Copy me into your ~/.signature to help me spread! ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: LDAP (Active Directory) and user statuses
On Friday, 1 בJune 2012 19:46:15 Baruch Shpirer wrote: You have last login, but not sure it would be much usefull to what you are trying to accomplish here Ido, maybe it's better to look for this info not in the DC -- if there is some generic share everybody need to access (e.g: the one holding the login scripts), you can monitor access to that share. Now, don't ask me how this can be done on Windows machines, but samba let you read client connection status and even kill them (look in the status page of samba swat) Enjoy, -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron באנו ווינדוס לגרש, בידינו פנגווין יש! ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Fedora upgrade, got unbootable system
On Wednesday, 18 בApril 2012 17:26:35 Nadav Har'El wrote: On Wed, Apr 18, 2012, Dov Grobgeld wrote about Re: Fedora upgrade, got unbootable system: prompt ssh dov@localhost Last login: Wed Apr 18 17:16:28 2012 from localhost.localdomain Could not chdir to home directory /home/dov: Permission denied prompt cd prompt pwd /home/dov I.e. I initially get a permission denied, but when cd'ing it doesn't affect me. Could it be a SELinux issue? Yes, maybe this will help: http://kangry.com/topics/viewcomment.php?index=18540 1. Indeed, the easiest way to check if it's SELinux problem is to temporarily 'setenforce 0' and compare the behaviour with the normal 'setenforce 1' behaviour. 2. The advice to manually 'chcon -t ' is not very good: - SELinux has a policy database that include a mapping from paths (with regexes) to security labels - You can view it with: semanage fcontext -l - You can apply it selectively to some paths via: restorecon files/dirs or restorecon -R files/dirs # recursive - Or if you suspect your whole file system is inconsistent, make it relabel the whole disk on the next boot (very-slow) by: touch /.autorelabel - You after restorecon, the security label is still wrong, than you can 'chcon' it as a workaround, and file a bug against the SELinux policy (Fedora SELinux team is very responsive, including on IRC) Hope it helps, -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron UNIX was not designed to stop you from doing stupid things, because that would also stop you from doing clever things. --Doug Gwyn ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Fedora upgrade, got unbootable system
On Wednesday, 11 בApril 2012 21:46:57 Dov Grobgeld wrote: modprobe[133]: FATAL: Could not load /lib/modules/3.3.1-3.fc16.i686/modules.dep: No such file or directory mount[95]: mount: unknown filesystem type 'binfmt_misc' Checking /lib/modules/3.3* shows that it indeed does not contain any modules.dep file. Should it? Is there perhaps a change to Linux 3.3 so it no longer uses that file? Use 'depmod' to re-generate it: depmod -a Then reboot, and see what other failures you have. -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. -- Edsger Wybe Dijkstra ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: [YBA] kernel compile errors with GCC = 4.6
On Thursday, 5 בApril 2012 11:33:51 Nadav Har'El wrote: When you == Linus Torvalds, I agree. When you == kernel user or even developer working on one particular part of the kernel, I don't agree: Many FOSS projects (and the kernel in particular) are very distributed, so there are potentially hundreds of Linus Torvalds's out there. Practically any developer working on some obscure Linux driver within some company is producing code which *may* eventually reach the kernel proper. Using global -Wall -Werror put most of the burden where it should be -- on the shoulder of the one writing the code, instead of starting to resolve these issues upon merging it upstream. For other projects I think that the Makefile or build system that is distributed with the project should only use -Werror after checking that the GCC version is the same as the version used by the developers for the release. On the contrary, different compiler/environment/architecture are exactly the edge-cases thay may lead to new bugs. It's better to try and handle them during build-time rather than run-time. In another mail on this thread, you mentioned a rare case of a compiler wrongly warning about uninitialized variable: * Maybe this was a compiler bug -- should it be ignored? (as would definitely happen without -Werror), or maybe the compiler should be fixed? * More importantly, I've seen countless such warnings (in numerous user-space programs). All of these were real bugs waiting to happen. Weighting this against your (possible) single false-alarm convince me again it's a bargain deal to '-Wall -Werror' I think a more valid criticism is: why -Wunused-but-set-variable is included in '-Wall' (which unlike its name implies does not include all warnings). Maybe this specific warning (and other style ones) should only be included in '-Wextra'. Then why distribute then -Werror at all? Let the developers use -Wall -Werror as part of their tests, and let users compile normally, without -Werror... Just my view... I beg to disagree -- users do not compile code, they 'yum/aptitude install' packages. Within FOSS community, each such consumer of your source code actually help the project as another test-case (maybe on a different platform, maybe different compiler, etc.) -- Yes, some of these test-cases are just noise, but you don't know this before evaluating the specific warning. Happy Pesach, -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron The speed of light really is too slow nowdays. -- Alan Cox ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: [YBA] kernel compile errors with GCC = 4.6
On Thursday, 5 בApril 2012 14:28:42 Nadav Har'El wrote:
On Thu, Apr 05, 2012, Oron Peled wrote:
Many FOSS projects (and the kernel in particular) are very distributed,
so there are potentially hundreds of Linus Torvalds's out there.
Let's say that I'm developing a particular driver.
Do I need to see warnings when some other driver, not directly related
to my project, didn't use a variable?
Let's see how these dreaded warnings get there in the first place:
- There was no '-Werror'
- The other developer didn't notice/care about the warnings
- You would care even less about someone else warnings
- No problem... someone else would clean the mess
Can you see the vicious circle that leads to ?
Preventing code deterioration is winning strategy over trying to fix
it later -- yes it has its (small IMO) price.
The few people who work on the whole kernel, including the so-called
Kernel Janitors, Redhat's QA people, and similar people, should
probably compile with -Wall -Werror and use any other
possible-bug-catching tools they can get their hands on.
And when they see tens of uninitialized variable warnings,
they'll know best how to initialized them and to what values...
Yes, they must know better than the original code writer...
Nadav, you are experienced enough to know first-hand that fixing bugs
closer to the point of their creation is easier by orders of magnitude
than trying to clean them up afterwards (say, in QA, or worse on Beta-site)
But the ordinary users,
Are not compiling kernels...
and even ordinary developers
Now we are talking...
- they should not have to constantly spend their time figuring out
problems in other parts of the code they know nothing about.
Let's separate reality from wishfull thinking. How many times you
had to debug into a library you didn't write? (that's not related
to our compilation talk, just a different example).
Something does not compile cleanly? Good! Make noise about it,
rant about it, in bugzilla, your blog, mailing-list, whatever.
This will help solve the bug quicker than to ignore it (no -Werror)
and find out later that you have to (run-time) debug into that
nasty code (which you didn't write).
Practically any developer working on some obscure Linux driver within
some company is producing code which *may* eventually reach the kernel
proper. Using global -Wall -Werror put most of the burden where it
should be -- on the shoulder of the one writing the code, instead
of starting to resolve these issues upon merging it upstream.
Indeed - let the writer of the code use -Wall -Werror. He'll also need
to use checkpatch.pl (to check the coding style), and maybe he'll use
various other tools to help him write quality code. But none of these
scaffolding needs to reach the end-user build process.
He will not. Because if that's not the default, turning it on is bound
to expose tons of (now fatal) warnings.
Believe me, I've seen it happen in proprietary software -- low
coding standards (no-time), no time to fix warnings (just to
appease the compiler), its a never-ending task (because new
warnings are generated all the time).
It only stopped after a critical memory corruption forced the
company to invest the time -- they now use '-Werror'
(otherwise, in a few months it'll be back as it was)
I tried to avoid the details, but since you asked, here they are.
Imagine code like this:
extern int flag;
...
void f(){
int i;
if (flag)
i=0;
g();
if (flag)
dosomething(i);
}
Now, the compiler (starting a certain version of GCC, with high enough
optimization setting) will warn that i may be used without being set.
Why? After all, it is only used if flag is true, and in that case, i
*was* set. Well, the problem is that the compiler can't know that flag
isn't changed in the middle of the function call, perhaps by another
thread. Perhaps in the call to g(). But *I* know that it can't - this
program is single-threaded, g() does nothing to the flag, and in fact
flag is never changed after initialization.
Hmmm...
$ gcc -pedantic -O3 -Wall -Wextra -Werror test_flag.c test_flag1.c
$ cat test_flag1.c
int flag = 1;
$ gcc --version
gcc (GCC) 4.6.3 20120306 (Red Hat 4.6.3-2)
Looks like some gcc developer heard your rant ;-)
* More importantly, I've seen countless such warnings (in numerous
user-space programs). All of these were real bugs waiting to happen.
I agree, but I don't agree that programs with bugs should not be allowed
to run. I'll tell you a dirty little secret: All programs, even good
ones, have real bugs waiting to happen. Is this a reason not to allow
users to compile them?
Allow? Sure they can (if they are developers, not users ;-)
They'll just need to edit out the '-Werror' from the build flags.
The extra work needed to make this workaround is a feature, not a bug
Re: /usr/opt instead of /opt?
On Friday, 9 בMarch 2012 15:41:14 Omer Zak wrote: On Fri, 2012-03-09 at 10:31 +0200, Oleg Goldshmidt wrote: Note that /opt is intended for software (and data) that is not a part of the system/distro, is installed in a non-standard way, etc. This is something you may want to keep intact, e.g., when you upgrade the base system. What, then, is the difference between /opt and /usr/local? Under /opt, each application has its own private namespace, i.e: /opt/foobar/bin, /opt/foobar/sbin, /opt/foobar/lib, etc. The /usr/local namespace is common to eventhing installed there. Originally (mid 80's), /usr/local was used for everyhing which wasn't vendor supplied. However, this had two problems: * No distinction between locally developed apps/scripts and 3'rd parties. * Major application had a lot of components and it wasn't a good idea to mix them with each other (e.g: have /usr/local/bin contain binaries from several major applications) So under SVR4 /opt was invented to solve these two problems. The importance of these techniques faded when Linux shifted into a package driven world. When we speek of free software there is no 3'rd parties -- we are all 1'st party. (OK, so there are proprietary applications for Linux and it's common to put them under /opt, and rightfully so because they really behave like the bad old 3'rd party software of the 80's... :-) Bye, -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron A train stops at a trainstation, a bus stops at a bustation, what happens at a workstation? ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: How do I disable NetworkManager in favor of dhcp setup?
On Thursday, 8 בMarch 2012 14:04:37 Tzafrir Cohen wrote: Reference: http://projects.gnome.org/NetworkManager/developers/api/09/ref-settings.html Sadly I did not see any progress in http://bugs.debian.org/637769 Thanks for the pointer. Let's see how long does it take: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=801735 -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron Free software: each person contributes a brick, but ultimately each person receives a house in return. -- Brendan Scott ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: gmail over POP3 - anyone else experiencing problems?
On Sunday, 4 בMarch 2012 23:10:03 Oleg Goldshmidt wrote: The relevant part of my ~/.fetchmailrc is server pop.gmail.com protocol pop3 user o...@goldshmidt.org, with password *, ssl, and fetchall, is oleg here An (unrelated) question -- any reason to use POP3 instead of IMAP4 which is also supported by gmail? I used to pull mail from several accounts at gmail (not my main o...@actcom.co.il) via IMAP4 (using fetchmail injecting these mails to my local sendmail). I am currently synchronizing these same accounts/folders via kmail (in an offline-imap mode), so this fetchmail/IMAP4 setup was commented out for a while. Bye, -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron Windows - How do you want to be exploited today. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Preparing to convince to shift to non-propriety documents formats
On Tuesday, 21 בFebruary 2012 17:56:15 Dotan Cohen wrote: If anyone is worried about releasing code developed from information gleaned in the MS documentation, then I can contract the work, and I release it. Therefore it is me who would be sued. I am willing to be the scapegoat and take that chance. Regretfully, your noble suggestion does not give any significant protection, for various reason (IANAL): * Patents: control *use* and not implementation. So if you write patent infringing code, you have no problem as long as you don't run it. However, your users are at a risk. (as a demo, see how MS threaten OEM's for Android use and not Google) * You may think about idemnifying your users (i.e: promise to financially back their damages), but this isn't a reasonable option unless you have spare cache in the 5-6 digits range (USA, in dollars). * Copyrights: this is a lesser risk, since we know free software developers do not copy/derive code from MS. However, even in this case -- if you are sued for copyright infringment, there's nothing that protect your users from being sued also (In the USA the MPAA/RIAA reminds everybody of this fact -- they sue the end users even if they downloaded infringing content from other infringing party, like youtube/pirate-bay/etc.) That means that the code will be released under GLP but the copyright remains with me, not you. But I think you guys know me, my intention is only to protect the real author, not to profit from the code. Profit from free software is not a shame. On the contrary, the client gets the program he asked for and as a bonus it's free software -- So the client gets better value for money. That's why I'm really sorry to hit your inovative bussiness model. I wish it would be feasible. ...The true author can remain anonymous if he wishes. Again, this isn't too practical these days (with BB anywhere). -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron God is real... unless declared an integer. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Preparing to convince to shift to non-propriety documents formats
On Sunday, 19 בFebruary 2012 23:00:11 Dotan Cohen wrote: On Sat, Feb 18, 2012 at 20:22, Oron Peled o...@actcom.co.il wrote: So either supporting a public documented ISO standard isn't harder than supporting many variants of proprietary and undocumented file file format, or... draw your own conclusion. Undocumented? Which file format is that? All the .doc and .docx formats are documented, even the older binary formats. Care to point us where it is? PS: if this documentation is encapsulated in something that can only be read after signing some NDA and/or other legal MS stuff -- don't bother, such documentation is equivalent to internal MS documentation -- I.e: it is not usefull to anyone else. -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron You know, someone once told me that New York has more lawyers than people. -- Warren Buffett, Fortune, 1999 ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Preparing to convince to shift to non-propriety documents formats
On Monday, 20 בFebruary 2012 17:24:20 Nadav Har'El wrote: On Mon, Feb 20, 2012, Dotan Cohen wrote about Re: Preparing to convince to shift to non-propriety documents formats: Here are the pre-2007 formats: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff381461.aspx And here are the current versions: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc313118.aspx Amazing. These didn't exist previously! MS released them few years ago as part of their OOXML plot. This context would explain the rest. It appears that people may legally use these documents, and even copy them. Oops, be carefull here. I just looked at one of them (Excel 97-2007) and the first sentence on the first page (after the cover page) says: This specification is provided under the Microsoft Open Specification Promise. (link to MS OSP) If this doesn't ring a bell, have a look at what lawyers (not paid by MS) had to say about this: http://softwarefreedom.org/resources/2008/osp-gpl.html ...Irrevocable but Only for Now... ...The OSP Covers Specifications, Not Code... So, I guess there's no reason to say any more that these formats are undocumented. Not really, unless I'll tell you my secrets and then sue you is some new documentation format ;-) -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. -- Edsger Wybe Dijkstra ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Preparing to convince to shift to non-propriety documents formats
On Monday, 20 בFebruary 2012 22:30:54 Nadav Har'El wrote: On Mon, Feb 20, 2012, Oron Peled wrote about Re: Preparing to convince to shift to non-propriety documents formats: Undocumented? Which file format is that? All the .doc and .docx formats are documented, even the older binary formats. Care to point us where it is? PS: if this documentation is encapsulated in something that can only be read after signing some NDA and/or other legal MS stuff -- don't bother, such documentation is equivalent to internal MS documentation -- I.e: it is not usefull to anyone else. Dotan gave the links earlier today: Here are the pre-2007 formats: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff381461.aspx And here are the current versions: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc313118.aspx Amazingly, not only do you not have to sign any NDA, the documents (at least those I looked at) say that your are free to copy and redistiribute them. Perhaps even more amazingly, they are in PDF format, I think you'll be less thrilled after reading my response to his mail. In short: * The documents are free, but the contained information is not. * Their appearance (e.g: PDF, etc.) is not surprising if you know they were released during the corrupted OOXML campaign. -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron Q: How many NSA agents does it take to replace a lightbulb? A: dSva7DrYiY24yeTItKyyogFXD5gRuoRqPNQ9v6WCLLywZPINlu! ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Preparing to convince to shift to non-propriety documents formats
On Friday, 17 בFebruary 2012 14:56:20 Diego Iastrubni wrote: My brief conclusion of this experiment is that MSOffice 2010 supports ODF 1.1 as much as LibreOffice supports *.doc files. So either supporting a public documented ISO standard isn't harder than supporting many variants of proprietary and undocumented file file format, or... draw your own conclusion. -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron Complaining that [Linux] doesn't work well with Windows is like ... oh, say, evaluating an early automobile and complaining that there's no place to hitch up a horse. Daniel Dvorkin, July 28, 2003 ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Preparing to convince to shift to non-propriety documents formats
On Wednesday, 15 בFebruary 2012 21:47:02 Diego Iastrubni wrote: On Monday, February 06, 2012 02:43:16 AM Oron Peled wrote: You can find an example of this (refering to ODS): http://www.robweir.com/blog/2009/05 Really? WTF? Linking to a document from 3 years ago? So, the wold of propietary software stopped 3 years ago? Nope. It just created more incompatible formats... (MS-Office-2010 format is different from MS-Office-2007) BTW, if you think they improved ODF support you are dead wrong. In the last years all ODF supporting programs were adapting to the (now approved) ODF-1.2 -- care to check where is MS-Office in this respect? But we knew this would happen, didn't we? -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron Linux: If you're not careful, you might actually learn something. -- Allen Wong ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Preparing to convince to shift to non-propriety documents formats
On Sunday, 5 בFebruary 2012 15:52:45 Micha wrote: I can't seem to change page numbering (i.e suppress page numbering on some pages) or change head/footer format. One thing that microsoft does ok (but messes up a whole lot of others in return). Huh? Page-styles are your friends. You can defined separate page-styles (e.g: cover-page, regular page, landscape page, etc.) and apply these styles to any page range you want. Generally, OOo style handling is very good and used to be a lot better then MS-word. It's been years I haven't use MS-word, so I cannot say if they closed the gap in this space. -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron MCSE: Must Consult Someone Experienced ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Preparing to convince to shift to non-propriety documents formats
On Sunday, 5 בFebruary 2012 19:37:05 Shlomi Fish wrote: I believe recent versions of Microsoft Office support ODT (I don't know how perfectly). At least I saw it in their file formats' drop box. Stay away from this, it's a trap. Their implementation (unsurprisingly) generates ODF that isn't readable by any other ODF application. You can find an example of this (refering to ODS): http://www.robweir.com/blog/2009/05 If not there are some free-as-in-beer plugins available for MS Office to support the OpenDocument formats. There was a Sun plugin, which was covered in the above interoperability paper, but: * It needed some registration to use (so I didn't test it) * I'm not sure if still exists after Oracle bought Sun. -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron The wonderful thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from. -- Grace Murray Hopper ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Cat on (RAM) steroids
On Saturday, 4 בFebruary 2012 16:27:27 Eli Billauer wrote: ... Rationale: The (kernel) device /dev/datasource has limited RAM it can allocate in kernel space. ... So if data is loaded into a huge RAM array (what is 256 MB these days?) I fail to see why the kernel driver would be more limited in RAM allocation than the utility you want? After all, RAM is RAM if you have enough for the application to use (you asked for non-pageable memory), than why can't the kernel driver allocate it just the same and be done with it? Bye, -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron Linux: Because a PC is a terrible thing to waste. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Israeli website on Linux: beer-sheva.muni.il
On Wednesday, 25 בJanuary 2012 08:52:55 Noam Meltzer wrote: On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 8:38 AM, Dotan Cohen dotanco...@gmail.com wrote: Can anyone reach beer-sheva.muni.il on Linux? ... I have no problem accessing the site from firefox9.0.1 on Fedora15. Only thing is that the URL must include the prefixing www. No connection from here (F15, firefox9.0.1 as well), but let's look deeper: $ telnet www.beer-sheva.muni.il Trying 147.236.237.102... telnet: connect to address 147.236.237.102: Connection timed out Could it be that ISP's or someone else is playing games with us? Can you test with telnet and traceroute what's happening from your site? Here is my traceroute sorry for long line folds: $ traceroute www.beer-sheva.muni.il 1 ... cut-out my internal address ... 2 bzq-179-37-1.static.bezeqint.net (212.179.37.1) 20.949 ms 31.196 ms 40.993 ms 3 bzq-179-122-129.static.bezeqint.net (212.179.122.129) 50.545 ms 60.331 ms 70.617 ms 4 bzq-179-160-181.static.bezeqint.net (212.179.160.181) 80.426 ms 89.968 ms 100.007 ms 5 bzq-219-189-245.cablep.bezeqint.net (62.219.189.245) 111.488 ms 121.540 ms 131.557 ms 6 bzq-219-189-150.cablep.bezeqint.net (62.219.189.150) 139.423 ms 149.326 ms 159.361 ms 7 bzq-179-28-226.static.bezeqint.net (212.179.28.226) 168.907 ms 20.832 ms 20.347 ms 8 WAN-MR-ASR-01-tengig0-0-0-3450.ip4.012.net.il (212.199.5.18) 30.631 ms 40.417 ms 49.965 ms 9 192.117.10.138.static.012.net.il (192.117.10.138) 61.989 ms 71.301 ms 81.081 ms 10 172.20.236.253 (172.20.236.253) 91.385 ms 101.423 ms 111.221 ms 11 * * * continues the same So? -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron Don't worry about what anybody else is going to do. The best way to predict the future is to invent it. -- Alan Kay ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: question: discount bank web site - linux+firefox friendly?
On Thursday, 19 בJanuary 2012 10:01:20 guy keren wrote: i'm considering switching to Discount bank (www.discountbank.co.il) - and i want to make sure that their online banking works with firefox on linux for these operations: 1. viewing the balance. Works, as well as other tabs on the main screen. this is using Firefox versions provided by Fedora for the last 2 years (i.e: F-13, 14, 15 [haven't tested on F-16 yet]). I used it mostly to be updated on my account state with very few and trivial actions: - Viewing balance, credit cards balance, etc. - Downloading the same (as Excel reports) - Reading the (pretty-awfull) web-mail: this is slow, and if you want to save a local copy, you have to open each message as PDF and save it from your PDF reader. - Ordering checkbooks No idea about the other items you asked: 2. viewing the stock-market portfolio. 3. performing stock/bonds buy/sell operations (including setting limits). 4. viewing information about stocks and companies (both current data, and past graphs), including searching by name/symbol/stock number, viewing summary of monetary reports, yields, etc. if anyone here is doing one or more of these operations successfully with firefox *on linux* - could you share your experience? i'm currently working with bank leumi, where all these things work now - but not all of them worked 1-2 years ago e.g there was a time where i could only read mail and see my balance and existing portfolio - but couldn't perform stock/bonds buy/sell operations (the buy wizard would fail on the last page). thanks, --guy ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: NFS + NIS madness
On Monday, 28 בNovember 2011 21:28:37 Hetz Ben Hamo wrote: ... # su - vic id: cannot find name for user ID 500 id: cannot find name for user ID 500 [I have no name!@client ~]$ $ id uid=500 gid=500(vic) groups=500(vic) context=unconfined_u:unconfined_r:unconfined_t:s0-s0:c0.c1023 ... but still ... $ ls -la total 32 drwx-- 2 500 vic 4096 Nov 28 2011 . drwxr-xr-x 4 root root 4096 Nov 25 20:06 .. -rw--- 1 500 vic 343 Nov 28 2011 .bash_history -rw-r--r-- 1 500 vic18 May 26 2011 .bash_logout -rw-r--r-- 1 500 vic 176 May 26 2011 .bash_profile -rw-r--r-- 1 500 vic 124 May 26 2011 .bashrc -rw--- 1 500 vic 602 Nov 28 2011 .viminfo *[I have no name*!@client ~]$ Interesting. Looks like name-uid translation works, but uid-name don't. Maybe (for some unknown reason) the reverse NIS map is not there. Let's debug it: 1. First at the NIS level -- The 'passwd' map is a shortcut to the 'passwd.byname' map, let's test the 'passwd.byuid' map: * Enumerate: ypcat passwd.byuid * Match: ypmatch 500 passwd.byuid 2. If 1. is OK, test at the NSS level: getent passwd 500 Both of these work? -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron If it's there and you can see it, it's REAL If it's there and you can't see it, it's TRANSPARENT If it's not there and you can see it, it's VIRTUAL If it's not there and you can't see it, it's GONE! ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: NFS + NIS madness
On Sunday, 27 בNovember 2011 12:30:52 Hetz Ben Hamo wrote: Hi, Doesn't help. Actually the problem is bigger.. Isolate the problem in steps: 1. Check NIS as a directory service (without even using it in nsswitch). Here is a quick checklist -- no use trying a step if previous one failed: * Verify ypbind is running via ps(1) * Verify it successfully bound to the NIS domain via ypwhich(1): - Failed binding is #1 error in NIS - Verify domainname(1) match (server/client) - Verify client access correct server (/etc/yp.conf) - Modern (90's) NIS servers don't answer RPC broadcasts (security) so you must specify the server in the clients /etc/yp.conf - Modern (90's) NIS servers only answer subnets listed in their /var/yp/securenets -- have you added yours to this file? * Verify it returns correct information via ypcat(1), ypmatch(1): - Enumeration: ypcat passwd Modern NIS server enumerate users/groups with id's above specific threshold (e.g: 500 and above), so system users should not be listed. Maybe your NIS server start above 1000. - Lookup (e.g: your vic user): ypmatch vic passwd * If any of these does not work correctly, you need to fix NIS configuration -- don't try to debug nsswitch until all these tests are OK. 2. Only if all items in 1. passed OK, check its integration in NSS (name service switch): * Verify enumeration: - getent passwd * Verify lookup: - getent passwd vic * Or equivalently: - id vic * If previous items in 2. weren't OK, but items on 1. were OK, you have a problem in /etc/nsswitch.conf: - The simplest config is to have files nis in the lines of passwd, shadow and group - A compat line in those three lines serves a special form of files where special lines in these files can (selectively) include data from NIS. Examples: +oron # include only oron's record from NIS +@foobar # include everybody from netgroup (NOT group) foobar -badguy # Obviously + # Everybody (except badguy -- line order affect results) - This means that a passwd: files nis in /etc/nsswitch.conf is equivalent to passwd: compat with a '+' in the end of /etc/passwd. Hope it helps, -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron When you say I wrote a program that crashed Windows, people just stare at you blankly and say Hey, I got those with the system, *for free* ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: A good Linux kernel vintage?
On Wednesday, 16 בNovember 2011 17:19:16 Eli Billauer wrote: So can anyone point at a kernel version (possibly flavor) which is known to be a successful one? For upstream kernels, your best shot is to try one of the stable kernels. I.e: those that have 4 numbers version (2.6.x.y) [or 3 numbers version for 3.x.y kernels] This is because: - They are regularly maintained, because they are used as the basis for major distro versions (Debian stable, Redhat/Centos etc.) which means you can usually increment 'y' as far as it goes for your chosen 'x' with hopefully no regressions etc. - Being the basis for major distro kernels also mean they are used by a very large population (testing, bug-fixes, etc). If you choose this route, you may as well pick your distro kernel (albeit for a different version). You should be carefull about relations between kernel *packages* for specific versions. E.g: Fedora moved (don't remember when) to a newer mkinitrd infrastructure called dracut -- So I assume a new kernel *package* would contain post-install scripts that depends on these scripts, so if your F12 is before the dracut transition, you may have integration problems (need to build/debug this stuff manually). Bye, -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron She sells cshs by the cshore. - Rob Malda ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: [HAIFUX LECTURE - CANCELLED] Today's lecture is cancelled
On Monday, 30 בMay 2011 17:37:18 Orr Dunkelman wrote: Due to mechanical problems with his car, Tomer will not be able to give his talk today, and thus, the Haifux lecture is cancelled. WHAT? Now a boycot on Haifux? Next he'll want to fix his car at the Shenkar College! Do you think Hamakor should raise a car-maintenance fund to prevent this academic boycot? :-) -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron A billion flies _can_ be wrong - I'd rather eat lamb chops than shit. -- Linus Torvalds on lkml ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Disk I/O as a bottleneck? [OT]
On Sunday, 8 בMay 2011 19:42:55 is...@zahav.net.il wrote: On Sun, 08 May 2011 19:19:25 +0300 guy keren c...@actcom.co.il wrote: and how is all this related to solaris Vs. linux? solaris is *nix, at least was the last time i heard ;) Yes, you are right, but for some reason Solaris has the reputation for handling multicore better than Linux and BSD. Repeating this claim does not make it true: http://www.nas.nasa.gov/Resources/Systems/columbia.html - Smallest node have only 512 (Itanium) cores - Biggest system have 2048 (Itanium) cores - These systems are from ~2006 (5 years ago) - They are SSI (single system image), not clusters. If Solaris was so much better in multicore handling, I'll bet you would be able to point to similar Solaris systems, now can you? -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron There are two major products that come from Berkeley: LSD and UNIX. We don't believe this to be a coincidence. -- Jeremy S. Anderson ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: The STREAMS non-inclusion in Linux
On Wednesday, 20 בApril 2011 08:09:35 Omer Zak wrote: One of the things in which Linux diverges from Unix is Linux' non-implementation of STREAMS. None of them has details about the reasons, which led Linux Kernel developers to reject STREAMS. STREAMS was only vaguely described as poorly-designed and resource-consuming. From Alan Cox: http://lkml.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/9806.3/0997.html Where can I find, if it exists at all, the definitive article which spells out the reasons for rejection of STREAMS? IIRC, Linus once said STREAMS would enter the kernel over his dead body but I cannot find a reference to that now. -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron Problems cannot be solved at the same level of awareness that created them. -- A. Einstein ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: some help in technical solution
On Wednesday, 6 בApril 2011 08:11:24 Omer Zak wrote: Unless I am mistaken, the USB specs stipulate that it shall be possible to connect up to 127 USB devices to a PC. So what you want to do should be doable. However I don't know the chances of it exposing bugs in the Linux USB subsystem, as it is a rare use case. From the rare use cases department... We connected some 20 usb devices to a single PC. Each of these devices sends+receive a minimum of 1K usb packets per second (it's voice + some control messages) The Linux USB stack is a joy to work with and is rock solid (there were some bugs circa 2.6.8 which we never observed since 2.6.12) my 2c. -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron Windows is NOT a virus: a virus is small and efficient. --Jonathan Leffler, Informix ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: How to say reference implementation?
On Monday, 14 בMarch 2011 10:56:59 Robert Wallner wrote: I'm not a linguist either, but what about מימוש סמך לא רע, מה לגבי מימוש יחוס. -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron If it's not source, it's not software. -- www.gnu.org ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: IE6 Countdown
On Saturday, 5 בMarch 2011 23:59:45 Amos Shapira wrote: Not directly Linux related but a source of a lot of pain for Linux users in Israel: http://ie6countdown.com/ We should direct people to proper replacements: * It's pretty transparent Microsoft tactics: Every copy of IE6 is a good target for migration to modern browsers (Firefox, Chrome, Safar, Opera) However, they ask web administrators to support the cause by putting a banner pointing to (download another IE version) * Also note that XP users (those that have IE6 installed) may hope at best for the old and cranky IE8 (MS said they're not going to have IE9 for XP) People, please avoid pointing to this outright propaganda. -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron If your Windows box is dead, it is doing what it does best: nothing. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: mail issues questions
On Monday, 28 בFebruary 2011 02:34:32 Hetz Ben Hamo wrote: Any tips what can be done about these 2? (hotmail and yahoo) Ignore them. They are dead beef... -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron The day Microsoft makes something that doesn't suck is probably the day they start making vacuum cleaners - Ernst Jan Plugge ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: [Haifux] MCTIP computer technician course
On Sunday, 20 בFebruary 2011 09:47:49 amichay p. k. wrote: I prefer to choose this course, at least now, because it will give me a useful profession, and I finish it before the beginning of my military service. In addition, after the military service I can work as a computer technician, and to finance my studies in CS Unless you practice this stuff *during* the army service, it would be gone by the time you finish army: - You'll forget most of it. - A lot of the material would be obsolete (we are talking about technician level hands-on type of knowledge). So a very focused and expensive training at this stage is investing a lot of resource with verry little benefit (unless you somehow practise this knowledge during army service) -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron write your own operating system. It has worked every time for me -- Linus Thorvalds ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Linux Bridging of Tagged-VLAN (802.1q) Ethernet Traffic
On Monday, 24 בJanuary 2011 21:47:20 shimi wrote: I'm trying to run a Linux Bridge in order to manipulate traffic running between trunk ports on two switches. The ports on both ends pass all their traffic with VLAN tagging to both ends (i.e. both switches has the port set to 802.1q/trunk, and the traffic flow between the switches encapsulates many subnets on different VLANs) Short googling turned out the following related links: - [LARTC] linux bridging vlans? http://mailman.ds9a.nl/pipermail/lartc/2006q1/018537.html - 802.1Q VLAN Tagging and Untagging on Linux? http://www.linuxsa.org.au/pipermail/linuxsa/2006-July/084589.html The point mentioned is that you should vconfig the *physical* interfaces and then bridge the result. The reason given for this is that it is more flexible (although more complex) -- e.g: you can bridge a physical non-vlan capable interface to a specific vlan. I didn't test any of this personally... Enjoy, -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron We spend the first twelve months of our children's lives teaching them to walk and talk and the next twelve years telling them to sit down and shut up. -- Phyllis Diller I have set up the bridge the following way: 0. Create bridge br0 1. Add both NICs to the same bridge; 2. Put the bridge interface up. 3. Put the physical NICs and the bridge interface in promisc mode. (as I've seen mentions for this, but I think this is a redundant stage given that it's a bridge?) If I pass regular traffic through this setup, it works correctly - i.e. the Linux box acts as if it was a switch. If I pass VLAN-tagged traffic the very same way, it doesn't pass to the other side... Upon scanning the net a bit, I've also decided to put 0 on the following kernel options: net.bridge.bridge-nf-call-arptables = 0 net.bridge.bridge-nf-call-ip6tables = 0 net.bridge.bridge-nf-call-iptables = 0 net.bridge.bridge-nf-filter-vlan-tagged = 0 ... which didn't seem to have any effect. I also tried intercepting VLAN traffic by creating VLANs on the physical interfaces with vconfig, then adding them to the br0 and also tried setting them up in promisc mode. This also didn't seem to have any effect. Setting an IPv4 address on br0 also did not seem to have any effect. It is to be noted the traffic do pass correctly if I take both Ethernet cables from the machine and connect them to each other using a plastic Coupler :) Any ideas? What did I miss? Is what I am trying even possible with the kernel Bridging code? :) Thanks in advance, -- Shimi ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Multiple software copies (was Re: Die GNU autotools)
Somehow, too many people miss the really big point about code duplication... So I'll try to put some perspective into this... On Thursday, 13 בJanuary 2011 13:30:34 Elazar Leibovich wrote: On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 1:05 AM, Tzafrir Cohen tzaf...@cohens.org.ilwrote: But it's a system (or user-installed) library. Why would I need to bundle it with my code? You just hit the nail on its head! Few years ago, you were correct, harddisks were thin, memory was spare, and if you could use a preinstalled library it'll be a great benefit. Disk and memory footprint are important, *BUT* having multiple copies of the same software suck bigtime for a different reason. Let's take dynamic libraries as a showcase. First few facts to set the stage: * They exist from the 80's (e.g: Unix systems) * They are the dominant form for the last 20 years (the percentage of statically linked binaries is very low) * BUT -- they cause performance hit (on most architectures) comparing to statically linked binaries. Q: So what's the major reason for their use (bearing in mind that they cost us performance)? A: It's because *dynamic* linking offers crucial key to software maintenance -- no need to rebuild every application using the library when the library need updates (Tzafrir mentioned this on another post) Let me illustrate with two real life examples from Fedoraproject: * Fedora-14 upgraded libjpeg with a new optimized implementation that gave a significant performance boost: (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/libjpeg-turbo). Q: How many packages I *did not* have to update on my laptop ? A:$ rpmquery --whatrequires libjpeg.so.62 | wc -l 73# Yes, I only use few graphic apps/utilities Q: How many packages *did not* had to be built by the maintainers ? A:$ repoquery --alldeps --whatrequires libjpeg-turbo | wc -l 474 Yes, four hundred seventy four packages. * This December a security fix was issued to libsndfile for EPEL (https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/libsndfile-1.0.17-4.el5) to fix several buffer overflows. Q: How many packages a RHEL customer or Centos user *did not* have to worry about after installing the fix ? [OK, I'll cheat and check on my F-14 laptop, since I don't have a RHEL / Centos box in front of me] A: $ repoquery --alldeps --whatrequires libsndfile | wc -l 108 The two immediate conclusions from these tiny examples: * Dynamic library biggest win is software *maintenance* -- static libraries maintenance *does not scale*. * Using multiple, private copies of dynamic libraries for each application is winning the worst of *both* worlds: - You get the lousy performace of dynamic libraries (comparing to statically linked binaries) - And you get unmanageble software mess as well. Bonus question to clarify the point: 1. Assume Microsoft issues via their automatic updates a security fix to one of their DLL's 2. What is the chance that the update would fix *all* multiple copies of same DLL which is installed/bundled/packaged in 3'rd party applications, sometimes in multiple versions (of the application, the DLL or both). [yes, some of the copies may be installed/upgraded *after* the MS-update took place -- we talk about real life, not MS dream world] 3. Now, assuming both Microsoft and the user never miss an update. What is the chance of the user to have a secure system ? Bonus bonus question: Answer the previous question, assuming the DLL does not come directly from Microsoft but from a 3'rd party (e.g: some popular Active-X control or other stupidity) BTW: This is why Fedora pretty much frowns upon static libraries (even special cases requires separate packaging) [http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/Guidelines#Packaging_Static_Libraries] Cheers, -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron #define NULL 0 /* silly thing is, we don't even use this */ --Larry Wall in perl.c from the perl source code ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Die GNU autotools
On Tuesday, 11 בJanuary 2011 16:35:08 Nadav Har'El wrote:
On Tue, Jan 11, 2011, Shlomi Fish wrote about Re: Die GNU autotools:
m4 is very vile.
If I would write it myself, the language I would choose is Tcl - because
of its { ... } quoting making it easy to include verbatim shell blurbs.
Nadav:
1. In m4 the quote characters are user defined. In very old autoconf
implementations, they used the default (a ` and a ')
Modern autoconf uses by default a more visible pair
of quote characters (a [ and a ] )
2. Actullay, because m4 is just a macro processor, anything in your
configure.ac file which is not an autoconf macro *IS* a verbatim
shell script -- the only need for delimited shell blurbs is when they
are passed as parameters to macros (indeed it's the common use
case).
Shlomi:
3. While I can see the learning curve problem you point to,
I cannot see how the CMake syntax is any improvement
over the widely known bourne-shell syntax for writing tests.
For standard tests that aleady have prepare macros, the syntax
should be nice in almost any language you pick.
Predefined example from autoconf (for libsdl):
AM_PATH_SDL
or if you want a minimum version:
AM_PATH_SDL([1.2])
And than in your Makefile.in (or Makefile.am if you want automake)
simply add $(SDL_CFLAGS) to compile commands and $(SDL_LIBS)
to link commands.
Night'
--
Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492
o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron
It's not the software that's free; it's you.
- billyskank on Groklaw
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Re: Problems in getting new drivers into Linux distributions
get the picture -- about 2-3 years ago a technological shock wave started in the Linux graphics stack. Trust me, as a user of a bleading edge distro [Fedora] and a very demanding graphics desktop [KDE-4] these changes was strongly felt by me -- Including having to use GNOME for few months on my older laptop about two years ago [circa Fedora-10]. However most of it is over and in the last year I see very good out of the box support for various Intel chipsets -- so getting the same experience for bleading edge chipsets is quickly approaching (including AMD/ATI -- although I have less experience with them) What we see is a temporal problem here and not something inherent to Linux distros development cycle or FOSS. And this is a problem for distributions which periodically release a version (Arch and Gentoo are exceptions). I do not understand one thing. Debian has backports (http://backports.debian.org/). Through backports, it is possible to get the appropriate updated versions into a installation based upon a particular release. Don't other distributions have backports, too? 3. Backports are needed for distributions with long life cycle. These distros can pull *some* modern packages from their fast-pacing relatives: * Debian-stable have backports from Debian-Testing. ,* RedHat/Centos have extra modern packages from Fedora (EPEL repository) While they are different, there are some common attributes: * In both cases, only *selected* packages are backported/added. Normally, nobody tries to add packages that conflict with existing packages and may make package maintenance a nightmare. * In both cases, the packages are taken from a distribution that is standing on its own and may be installed in the first place if so desired. This means that the probability that backports or EPEL would push big architectural changes (as opposed to one driver update) into a stable distro is very low, and for a good reason. Also, this is why most people using Linux desktops, choose some fast-pacing distribution. Don't worry, be happy ;-) -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron The future is here, it's just not evenly distributed yet. - William Gibson ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Fwd: Participating to google code in
בעקבות ההצלחה המתמשכת של פרוייקטי הקייץ של גוגל לסטודנטים, הם החליטו לפתוח בנובמבר פרוייקט דומה עבור תיכוניסטים (בני 13 עד 18). אז לכל החברה הצעירים, זו ההזדמנות שלכם (או של חברים/ות שלכם) לקפוץ למים. להלן מכתב בנושא (כולל קישורים) מרשימת הדיוור של המשחק ווסנות' המשתתף בתחרות. בעוד כשבועיים תתפרסם רשימה מלאה של הפרוייקטים והנושאים הזמינים. חשוב להדגיש כי יש מגוון אפשרויות רחב להשתתפות ולא רק כתיבת קוד. -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron First we take Manhattan , then we take Berlin...(Leonard Cohen). Linux and Open Source - The Revolution of Choice -- Forwarded Message -- Subject: [Wesnoth-dev] Participating to google code in Date: Sunday, 24 בOctober 2010, 04:32:07 From: jeremy rosen jeremy.ro...@enst-bretagne.fr To: dev-talk wesnoth-...@gna.org Hello all google has opened the google code in which is an open source contribution competition for kids in the 13-17 age range Basically FOSS projects create a list of easy tasks that students can accomplish easily. students can claim these tasks and once they've done three of these they get paid 100$, they can get up to $500 that way, resolving more tasks will give them extra point toward a grand price (a travel for them and a family member to the googleplex) Only organisations that were members of GSOC can participate and provide the tasks for the students. These tasks are not limited to coding, there can be playtesting, translation, documentation, quality assurence etc... These task should be quite simple (doable in a couple of hours) and targeted for people external to the projects, but we can provide lots and lots of small tasks There is no mentoring involved except providing the task lists and generic advices... you can learn more at http://code.google.com/gci so the question for all of you people is : are we interested, and do we have some tasks to provide which would bring something to the projects. here at GSOC we thought of stuff including * playtesting 1.9 * playtesting mp campaigns * working on the wiki (reorganizing/checking) * helping on translations * reworking some wml macros * reworking the aethetic of maps so i'm particularly interested from people that might have such tasks available. We have to register to be an organisation before friday, but we just need to provide a list of task reflecting the sort of tasks we would provide to students (we can add more at any point, including during the code-in itself if we run out of tasks) please try to give feedback soon so we can work it out rapidely cheers Boucman ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: firewall with real IP's
On Sunday, 17 בOctober 2010 19:55:43 Hetz Ben Hamo wrote: * What would you recommend as a good firewall 1. In most cases, the firewall is really Linux kernel netfilter (iptables) (please, only the ones who are being updated and have docs. ipcop for example has old documents and you really need to hunt for some good instructions. Smoothwall is old [2007] and it's not being updated at all) 2. So the real questions are: - What distribution should you use for your firewall? - What good/maintained tools exist for firewall rule management? 3. Personally I've used fwbuilder as a managment application for some years: - It is maintained. - Has a GUI interface. - Can remotely manage several different firewall. - Compile the abstract firewall description into a low-level firewall configuration script. Note: it support compiling for other targets, e.g: BSD ipfilter, but I've only used it with Linux. - Can optionally run deployment script for you (deployment via ssh is built in, no need for extra scripts) - Version controlled data (via RCS ci/co) - No web interface (but very good local gui which can deploy to several firewalls in few clicks). 4. About the distro: - Used Fedora on an old PC - Now use Debian lenny on a CF installed in ALIX2d3 [http://www.pcengines.ch/alix2d3.htm) which is a ~150$ wonder in itself. BTW: For simple firewalls on single hosts (Fedora) I use system-config-firewall -- it has GUI and is piece of cake for common use cases (internal/extranl, no dmz, etc.) It also generates an iptables script that is run when interface goes up. Bye, -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron Linux: like the air you breathe, ubiquitous and free ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: tidy IP/IF table report tool
On Saturday, 16 בOctober 2010 14:25:38 Constantine Shulyupin wrote: Are there tool, which outputs tidy table of interfaces and IP like this: eth0 up nolink10.100.101.100 00:21:85:18:35:73 vmnet1 up link192.168.171.100:50:56:c0:00:01 Not exactly, but I once wrote a utility called linkloop: http://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/linkloop The package (last updated ~2007) contained a tool called lanscan that output a tabular info similar to what you asked. The output format I used tried to emulate the HP-UX lanscan utility, but it's very short and easy to modify. Cheers, -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron Don't worry about what anybody else is going to do. The best way to predict the future is to invent it. -- Alan Kay ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: [OT] Buying a new computer
On Monday, 11 בOctober 2010 18:15:54 geoffrey mendelson wrote: The Intel onboard graphics chipsets are perfectly fine for normal use. They seem to be much better than the other onboard graphics chipsets of 10 years ago. They are not really accelerated graphics devices, if you want something to display windows on your screen, with stationary graphics or text, play videos (using the CPU to decode the compressed video) etc, they are fine. Agreed. Just a warning -- beware of GMA-500, GMA-600. They are usually present on netbooks and since Intel made the mistake of buying the design from 3'rd party -- these drivers are proprietary, horrible, buggy etc. All other Intel graphic chipsets (X3xxx, X4xxx) are best choice for Linux desktop use -- FOSS drivers, updated regularly upstream, etc. -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron ... Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: How can I grab the filesystem from corrupted lvm (help recover data from lvm with one pv missing)
On Monday, 11 בOctober 2010 11:50:45 Boris shtrasman wrote: On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 11:45 AM, Yedidyah Bar-David Not gparted, gpart: http://www.brzitwa.de/mb/gpart/index.html Gpart is a tool which tries to guess the primary partition table of a PC-type hard disk in case the primary partition table in sector 0 is damaged, incorrect or deleted. If you fail, and still want to resurrect specific files, you can also try MagicRescue: http://www.itu.dk/people/jobr/magicrescue/ looks promising thank you And i was dding file by file :-( from the disk .. Just take notice that sequencial logical volume (partition) may be not sequencial on the physical volume (There's a logical extent to physical extent mapping). However, there is a good chance most/all of your partition is sequencial, especially if you created the volume group and the logical volumes when the disk was empty (e.g: during installation) without requiring a striped logical volume (it's not the default). Good luck, -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron ... one of the main causes of the fall of the Roman Empire was that, lacking zero, they had no way to indicate successful termination of their C programs. -- Robert Firth ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Wanted: FOSS IT service provider in the north
Some background, We talk about a small startup company located in the north (Gush Segev), with Linux based products that are being produced and sold for the last ~5-6 years. The environment includes several Linux desktops for the developers, Linux servers, several Windows(TM) desktops/laptops (accounting, marketing, etc) and IIRC one standalone Windows server (for ERP). Until now, all of this was basically self-maintained. However, we now want to contract an external company to handle all the IT related stuff. There is no shortage of such service providers and some proposals were already being made. HOWEVER!!! We naturally have a very strong preference for integrating FOSS IT solutions. Highlights: * We talk about a startup not a huge corporate. So scaleability is *not* the name of the game -- KISS. * We need a *service* provider. Any of us Linux guys could have installed and configure various tools/solutions -- but the whole point is to save our time. Therefore, we look for someone to evaluate alternatives, install, configure and provide *maintenance* with defined response times etc. * Note the locality -- Gush Segev. * An important part of the job is to provide IT services for the *Windows* users (again, remember the scale, we talk about *few* such users). Not surprisingly, the linuxers maintain their personal desktops to their liking (Debian/Fedora/Ubuntu/Centos you name it). This means, that as long as you use standard protocols/formats, we'll just configure *our* desktops ourselves. * If your expertise is AD/Exchange server, you need not apply. If we wanted to go this route, we already have enough propsals. We strongly prefer FOSS IT infrastructure that would serve also the Windows users. * If needed, for good integration with the FOSS server environment, FOSS tools/applications may be installed/maintained on the Windows clients as well. Just as an example, if the mail solution will work better with Thunderbird than Outlook it is perfectly acceptable as long as the provider gives an alternative client for calendaring etc. * Some proven field experience (clients). The idea is to save our time not make us clean up after the mess some rookie left behind. Please mail me and I'll forward relevant responses, TIA, -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any invention in human history with the possible exceptions of handguns and tequila. -- Mitch Ratliffe, April 1992 ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: com port list
On Tuesday, 31 בAugust 2010 12:22:02 Oleg Goldshmidt wrote: 2010/8/31 Erez D erez0...@gmail.com: I am looking for a simple way to know which serial ports i have. Instead of searching through /proc and /sys you should use hal: * To see everything, simply run 'lshal' * To find UDI's of all serial devices, run: hal-find-by-capability --capability serial * To get a specific property (e.g: the device file name): hal-get-property --udi udi_string --key linux.device_file From a program, just use the HAL API's. HAL is being deprecated (by DeviceKit/udev), but is still there for a while (at least with respect to legacy hardware like serial ports). -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron Normal people ... believe that if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Engineers believe that if it ain't broke, it doesn't have enough features ... yet. -- Scott Adams ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Monthly waste of time :-) Has anyone been able to buy a Digital TV USB stick in Israel and get it to work under Linux?
On Wednesday, 25 בAugust 2010 23:39:43 geoffrey mendelson wrote: As far as I know the manufacturer of the box has to publish the code, not the OEM or importer, who just sticks their name on it.If they have a site in China in Chinese, with no other languages, with the code available for download, or a comment that you send them ten dollars for postage and producing a disk, they will send you the code, they have fullfilled the GPL requirements. Hey, hey, not so quick: * Importers are not exempt from copyright law: Please check http://www.jnul.huji.ac.il/heb/docs/IL-copyright-2007.pdf An imported copyright infringing work is handled just as if the infringment was done in Israel (page 2, definitions) * Also, from item 1 in the license (GPLv2): ... and give any other recipients of the Program a copy of this License along with the Program. You can bet every sold device has nice page from company lawyers with tons of copyrights messages regarding *their* rights. Failing to include a copy of the *GPL license* is a violation in itself. * If you check item 3 in the license, you'll see that for commercial distributor the only valid options are: - Supply the source with the program - Accompany it with a written offer... to supply the source code. Now try to convince a judge that publishing in some manufacturer's web-site is equivalent to this. I haven't seen a company waive its rights away so easily as you just did for Free Software projects... Let's be more carefull next time. -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron There are only 10 types of people in the world- Those who understand binary, and those who do not. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Monthly waste of time :-) Has anyone been able to buy a Digital TV USB stick in Israel and get it to work under Linux?
On Thursday, 26 בAugust 2010 13:52:23 geoffrey mendelson wrote: On Aug 26, 2010, at 1:23 PM, Oron Peled wrote: Now try to convince a judge that publishing in some manufacturer's web-site is equivalent to this. That's an interesting point. What exactly would you sue for? Copyright infringment. In Israel you can only claim damages equal to the amount you were actually damaged. IANAL, but it's obvious you didn't bother to read the law: * item 56 - up to 100,000 NIS without proving any damage. * Also look at item 53... And even if you were right. Who said the damage is defined by the price of the software bits? This is a straw man which was tried at the USA and was thrown by the court to were it belongs... Not only that, but buying an infringing work is not illegal in Israel. Yes. Also the sun is shining now and the water are wet. What does it has to do with the *seller* of an infringing product? AFAIK there is no requirement for the GPL notification, offer of source code, etc to be in any particular language.Can you say with 100% certainty that it is not included in the Chinese documentation you (or the importer) threw out unread? Or that if you went into setup and clicked on ABOUT, you would not see such a message? Yes, all licenses are in English (in all products I've seen) but the GPL was translated to Chinese and hidden in the ABOUT box without providing the English original. Show me a product like this, and I'll settle ;-) [or better phrased -- when pigs fly] Finally why not? Almost everything I have bought here that includes a GPL notification does so in English (not Hebrew) and points to a web site for information on how to obtain source code. IANAL, but AFAIK English is one of Israel's official languages. I've done with this thread, since you are obviously looking under the rung for irrelevant arguments -- there is a huge market of GPL infringing products. The infringments are so big (both in quantity and level) that bothering ourselves with some rare-earth arguments is wasting time. Cheers, -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron Free software: each person contributes a brick, but ultimately each person receives a house in return. -- Brendan Scott ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: linux beivrit
On Saturday, 10 בJuly 2010 22:13:55 Etzion Bar-Noy wrote: Hi. I love those with the flare in their eyes, and their self-righteousness. The majority of the crowd, in Israel especially, will not be able to read ODT. I heard the same arguments 10 years ago, regarding Mozilla and IE-only websites. We are all thankfull to the people with the flare in their eyes that brought us back our web. Instead of Linux people trying to adapt to every possible IE quirk/bug, now MS needs to chase the tail-lights of modern standards compliant browsers on the market. Since PDF is good enough format, those who did not bother to read your document were, well, so filled with their hatred that they forgot the goal - reach maximum newbies, both on Linux and on Windows. Yes. PDF is very good format as a final output that would reach the people you talk about. ODF was suggested as an *input* format. Since probably all of this mailing list members use OpenOffice, That's why most of them voiced their opinion about what is the preferable input *for them* -- end users should consume HTML/PDF, etc. Going back to my first point -- trying to adopt MS-Office awfull formats (which even MS fail to be compatible to) is a *losing game*. Thanks, but no thanks, -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron It's almost like we're doing Windows users a favor by charging them money for something they could get for free, because they get confused otherwise. - Larry Wall. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Problems of a desktop Linux distribution GUI sudo
On Tuesday, 15 בJune 2010 09:12:53 Elazar Leibovich wrote: Thanks for the long and detailed reply! Yes, but you (probabely by mistake) replied to me only. I reply to the mailing list with your full content, so the context is not lost. Just to make sure I got you correctly, you're saying that no GUI app should ask for root privileges ever, and only known application should use root privileges, GUI applications would then only interface them (either through socket, or by allowing anyone to sudo this specific application). Generally yes. That's covers installation related software, but what about other software which needs root privileges? Say I want to run gparted? I don't want to run a gparted server all day long just for the time I need to run it, and I do want to be able to run it occasionally. There is no problem with activation on demand (with D-Bus it's a piece of cake). What I say is that new mechanisms have split implementation: - A priviledged bussiness logic - A non-priviledged UI BTW: this is a classic separation between interface and implementation and directly leads to other, non-security-related, advantages (e.g: multiple interfaces (console, GUI, Web-based) to the same bussiness logic). Vista authentication model still works, I'll be sure I'm giving root permissions to gparted and not to something that looks like gparted. (The flaws you mentioned in the *current* Vista model are known, but I believe some could be addressed, some flaws you mentioned are inherent to Windows in general, and to the sudo-like mechanism it applies). I'm the last to pretend being a Windows expert. However, the latest security related happenings in Vista-7, demonstrate that not much was changed from Vista (other than some colored cellophane and few more, much needed, drivers and bug-fixes). (BTW about the registery, can someone please tell me what the gconf authors were thinking? When I saw that the first thing I thought is Oh no, I ran away from windows to hide from the dreaded registery monster, and once again it raises its ugly head!) The only thing common between Windows registry and gconf is that both create a hierarchy of options. All the rest is exactly the opposite: * Access to settings is via gconfd which runs as the session *user*. This means that even if the code is as buggy as hell, it CANNOT touch *system-wide* settings. * No monolithic storage -- settings can be (and typically are) stored in several locations (look at /etc/gconf/2/path) * Storage technology backends can be selected per-location -- the currently used backend -- XML files. [ google for why-the-windows-registry-sucks-technically an interesting article by Richard WM. Jones ] * An application can not only get/set/query the settings, but can also request notification when an (other) application modifies specific settings. These notification are obviously sent by gconfd (which is a non-priviledged process, owned by the user) * It is not related at all to system level settings (kernel, modules, boot control, etc). So clobbering it won't brick your system. Comparing this to the registry is a sad joke. BTW please note that authentication don't have to be done with crypto! Unwritable file paths could do as well. If for instance you'll only allow programs in /usr/bin/* to ask for root privileges, and the user will see the full path of the software asking for root privileges, it provides enough authentication. The idea is to know who's asking for root relying on things which are more secure than the software icon, it doesn't have to be crypto. You got confused: - It's not the user that need to verify that the program is good - It's the program that need to verify that the *user* is authorized So if a program (e.g: /sbin/ifconfig) want to know that you are authorized to change the host IP address, it need some form of proof that you are not an imposter. This can be done in various forms. For example: - Enter a password - Show a crypto key only you have - Ask someone trusted (e.g: the kernel) Your argument focuses on the reverse issue: How the user can verify that the program is good As previously explained, this problem exist only for users that follow the Windows software model: * Install programs from many random locations and hope for good ;-) In the linux software model: * All software is centrally installed from signed distro repo Now *if* the (authorized) user already installed the software (i.e: trusted the distro repository), why should each user on the same system be asked if the program is trusted? What security layer is really added here? (hint: none) On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 4:42 PM, Oron Peled o...@actcom.co.il wrote: Allowing a desktop user to execute priviledged operations was tried over the years with different (wrong) approaches. First, let's summarize the old technical solutions and than
Re: Problems of a desktop Linux distribution GUI sudo
Allowing a desktop user to execute priviledged operations was tried over the years with different (wrong) approaches. First, let's summarize the old technical solutions and than explain their faults. Finally, we'll see what better approaches are being developed or deployed nowdays. All legacy solutions to this problem were somehow based on SUID programs: * The oldest (~10 years) -- A GUI around su -- KDE had kdesu, gnomes had gsomething_I_forgotsu, etc. * Than some distros (e.g: RH, Fedora) elaborated this via some suid wrapper (console_helper?) which used PAM to run/deny the relevant action. * Nowdays, we have Ubuntu, wrapping sudo in a nice GUI. Let's see why all these solutions were wrong... On Monday, 14 בJune 2010 20:12:43 Elazar Leibovich wrote: We *want *those application to constantly run in the background and prompt the user to take action. This is a good thing. Wrong. Constantly prompting the user causes a Pavlovic reaction. If you wonder what are the results overtime -- just look at a typical Windows user: - Press OK without reading what's written. - If there's no OK button, than press the 'x' close button. - If there's a RED warning, close it quicker so it will go away ;-) - If it ask for password, give it so it will stop bothering us. If the user was authenticated (e.g: at login time) AND is *authorized* to do something priviledged, than normally he/she should not be prompted for anything. (I say *normally*. There can be exceptions, but only if they are the *exception* and not the rule). But I'm not interested with extra limitations. I want to allow the user sudo'ing whatever he wishes, That lead us to another problem common to all legacy approaches. SUID root programs are considered a (sometime unavoidable) security threat. Why? Because every bug in SUID root program is potential root compromise. Now, despite what I just said, every Linux user (or even Unix veteran) can list quickly a couple of SUID root programs -- passwd, su, chsh, etc. What all these programs have in common? - Relatively small (code size) - Simple functionality - Simple inputs - In use for many years. Which means, that the risk of unknown security holes hiding in them is relatively low. Compare this with the approach, suggesting running complete desktop applications as SUID root (with any of the legacy techniques): - Each such application is at least an order of magnitude bigger than the simple apps mentioned above. - Every GUI application uses libraries which are several orders of magnitude bigger than itself (just look via 'ldd'). - It process anychronous inputs (UI events). - Its code base frequently change as a result of UI changes (look and feel). What is the chance, under these terms, of NOT having bugs leading to root exploits? To summarize this point: the risks are similar to logging-in to your desktop as root -- big NO-NO. If you'll do it in modern desktops you'll have root processes running on your desktop, talking to the outside world (browser, weather applet, mailbox notifier, etc.) How did Vista solve this problem? When the a software prompts for extra permissions, the user see which software asked for that, and if it's digitally the application's name and author are displayed. Hehe, it's so 90's... Just for the record, we have been installing crypto-signed packages for the last 15 years: An amusing historical reference: http://rikers.org/rpmbook/ contains the 1997 version of Maximum RPM, when someone bothered documenting it -- Search for the word 'PGP'. [Yes, that was before 'GPG' was written. Yes, I have an old (unused now) 'PGP' signature from that year.] However, this is a totally orthognal issue -- trust in installed software, which has nothing to do with the previous issue -- how a desktop user may be authorized to execute priviledged operations. The user is expected to examine those details and allow the program to get extra privileges if he wishes (software from sun? OK it's a java update, I clicked on Firefox installer I expect software from Mozilla Foundation to prompt for permissions, unsigned software is asking for permissions after I clicked to update my Java - wow, that's alarming!). You describe again the Windows software installation model, which is flawed on so many levels: * Each vendor has it's own policy/agenda -- remember Apple pushing Safari in a Quicktime update? * Each vendor has it's own private update system -- no central policy. * Ton's of other non-security related problems: - System integration -- zero (each vendor has its own world). - Can you tell what will be installed before installation (not the bla-bla written by the vendor -- the exact list of files). - What other system-related changes are happening without your knowledge (...registry... ooohhh it hearts...) Of course there are many problems with this approach (for instance let's sign my
Re: [not entirely OT] proper terms for grades of freedom
On Saturday, 12 בJune 2010 19:59:56 Shlomi Fish wrote: On Friday 11 Jun 2010 01:24:40 Oron Peled wrote: Well, that's the ideal. In practice, deployed FOSS code (which can always be modified in-house, according to the free software definition), sometimes tends to divert from the mainline code and be . Some examples: You gave good examples. As you pointed, in every one of them, there was a penalty in maintaining an in-house fork. 1. ... because they had problems dealing with them there due to the highly customised and were afraid to upgrade. 2. ... with some adaptations ... which were not accepted because they planned to do it properly using CSS, ... Since then PostNuke seems to have been abandoned. 3. ... still standardised on using perl-5.6.1 because they are afraid to upgrade. Now, perl-5.6.x is still open source and someone can maintain it, but the world has moved on. These penalties are exactly the reason most people to avoid forking free software into an in-house branch. As you correctly pointed out, there are always exceptions (for whatever reason, valid or not). Nevertheless they pay the price for this. So there is still a risk of people writing inhouse changes for open-source code and not propagating it for public consumption with open-source code. Sure, we cannot prevent people from doing these mistakes -- their problem. So that does not make an availability of source code for in-house modification crapware The availability does not make it crapware but the results are almost are. and we might as well call everything that's not 100% FOSS crapware too. Not 100%, but a pretty close number. Read enough corporate maintained code and you'll see what I mean. Furthermore, calling it crapware is not indicative of why this is the case. Simplified explanation: When software teams are pressured by management to produce results at impossible deadlines, without taking maintenance into consideration (clients pays only for features, or fixing immediate critical bugs) -- than over sufficient time and project complexity the code quality is almost bound to be bad. There is a lot of FOSS crappy code as well. However, in mature FOSS projects, there is some minimal quality required of *new* code entering the project. Since this bar is set by programmers (usually from different companies) it is not lowered so easily by marketing people or managers of a specific company. Even if they badly want a new feature *now*. This tends to improve code quality of mature FOSS projects overtime. Bye, -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron The future is here, it's just not evenly distributed yet. - William Gibson ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: [not entirely OT] proper terms for grades of freedom
On Thursday, 10 בJune 2010 21:26:20 Tzafrir Cohen wrote: Even if you have the source code, it does not mean you can build it. Exactly. Let's examine two categories mentioned in this thread: 1. Read-only software 2. Only-In-House modified software The common name of both is -- crapware. Why? 1. Read-only software: * The vendor prevents modification (or make it worthless): - Either by not supplying the complete build environment - Or by ommitting crucial components. * Would you waste your time reading source that does not represent anything you actually run? * Which, BTW, means all those NDA/Escrow plans are totally wothless. If/when you'll try to use this source... - It won't compile, - Or, it would contain a subset of the functionality you use, - Or, it would be some obsolete version (deposited few years ago when the contract was made), - Or, it's stored on an Exabyte-tape and you cannot find such a tape-drive, - Or, you found a drive, but the tape is so old, that's not readable anymore, - Or, you've read the file, but it's ARJ compressed and nobody can read them any longer. To apply the common wisdom (from sysadmin domain): A backup is wothless, unless it was actually tested (used) So: Source code is wothless, unless you actually compile and run it 2. How about modified-in-house software? Initially, it looks different, but let me explain why it's practically read-only. I'll start with an infamous history, which was told many times by Arie Scope (yes, the former chief of MS-Israel). Any time he wanted to attack FOSS, he repeated the same story which goes like this (from my memory, not exact): ...many years ago we had a mainframe computer in Tnuva and we had the source code for the system. During the years, a lot of people in the company modified and adapted the source to their needs. The result was a total mess. Nobody understood the code and nobody could maintain/upgrade it etc... The story makes perfect sense to anyone who maintains software. That's the assured result of in-house-only source code. Which mean it's crapware, but you get extra maintenance costs as a bonus ;-) Obviously, Scope didn't see (or didn't wanted his audience to see) the crucial difference between his story and FOSS. In FOSS the modifications (or rather the good modifications) are propagated upstream. This result in sharing of the maintenance costs among all the conributing parties. That's all for tonight folks... -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron באנו ווינדוס לגרש, בידינו פנגווין יש! ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: [not entirely OT] proper terms for grades of freedom
On Friday, 11 בJune 2010 01:34:24 Geoff Shang wrote: On Fri, 11 Jun 2010, Oron Peled wrote: - Or, you've read the file, but it's ARJ compressed and nobody can read them any longer. http://arj.sourceforge.net It's even easier: yum install arj However, here's a true story from few years ago (without names, so we don't embarase anybody). A very big multinational company needed to reprint old course material for a client (it was about an old and EOL version of its OS). Their HR people found it on the company internal servers, but they could not open it (as Win* people describe what happens when they double-click on an icon) So, I asked them and they sent it to me. Using file shown that it was an ARJ, containing PowerPoint files (one per course chapter) written in a *very* old PowerPoint version. So: arj - ~25 .ppt files - OO.o - ~25 PDF's - pdftk - One PDF Sent the resulting PDF for printing, got a huge thank you from them, did the course, life is good. Now, let's see if you can find a working Exabyte tape-drive ;-) -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. -- Gandhi ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: problems with syslogd
On Wednesday, 9 בJune 2010 15:14:44 Amit Aronovitch wrote: Recently I stopped getting any messages in /var/log/messages (and probably ... 1) /etc/syslogd.conf is debian's standard, seems to support /var/log/messages (as ever): *.=info;*.=notice;*.=warn;\ auth,authpriv.none;\ cron,daemon.none;\ mail,news.none-/var/log/messages Maybe the filename is separated from the selector by spaces instead of tabs? It is important (at least in legacy syslogd), because spaces are allow withing the selector expression. -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not tried it. -- Donald E. Knuth ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: ntpdate and Israel local time
On Thursday, 27 בMay 2010 21:50:12 geoffrey mendelson wrote: On May 27, 2010, at 9:37 PM, Dan Shimshoni wrote: ... However, there is a server at my work place which I am responsible for. When I run: ntpdate -s ntpserver.huji.ac.il it sets the time to 7 hours earlier (I mean, instead 19:00, it is 12:00). ... /etc/localtime is set to EST/EDT (US east coast) ln -s /usr/share/zoneinfo/Asia/Jerusalem /etc/localtime Note that UBUNTU (and possibly debian) use a hard link or a copy of the file instead of symlink. RedHat/Centos/Fedora also create a copy and for a good reason: /usr may be on a separate partition, in which case /etc/localtime is a dangling link during early boot phases until /usr is mounted. -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron Copyright protects Software. Patents protect Software Monopolies. http://swpat.ffii.org/ ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Client recovery of NFS mount
On Sunday, 23 בMay 2010 21:57:22 Tom Rosenfeld wrote: On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 11:36 PM, Oron Peled o...@actcom.co.il wrote: ... Move to NFS4 (both server and clients of course). I have done it some 2 years ago and it pays big time in reliability (also performance, but that's less noticable in my (low-volume) case). Thanks guys. I also use hard, intr and it usually works fine, but not always. :-( I have read that NFS4 is better in this respect, but never looked into it. If both my client and server support NFS4 is it just a matter of adding it as mount option? Not exactly. Client side: * It's not a mount option but a separate 'nfs4' file system type. * This means the line in /etc/fstab looks like this: server:/home /home nfs4 rw,hard,intr 0 0 Server side: * All NFS4 exports from the same host are treated as volumes under a common root directory. (Technically, the client mounts only this). * A sample /etc/exports (with an arbitrary root export directory): /nfs4exports192.168.1.0/24(rw,fsid=0) /nfs4exports/home 192.168.1.0/24(rw) /nfs4exports/mail 192.168.1.0/24(rw) * Notes: - The fsid=0 export option, this signify the root export. - Obviously, the directory structure has to be created first. * You can use bind mounts on the server to relocate different trees into the nfs4 root export. An example /etc/fstab: /home/nfs4exports/home nonebind0 0 /var/spool/mail /nfs4exports/mail nonebind0 0 Enjoy, -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron I love deadlines, especially the whooshing sound they make as they go by. -- Douglas Adams ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Common problems with Ubuntu
On Thursday, 13 בMay 2010 23:44:54 Udi Oron wrote: ... Luckily, in 2010, some software distributors are responsible enough to distribute their software in a way that their software is easy and fast to install and does not break anything, even if it is not packaged in the best practice available. Really? Where have you found those dreamland software distributors? I have yet to see a software vendor whose packaging does not make me puke. Moreover, remember that putting stuff inside a deb package does not mean it won't break your system, or even save you from deleting important data :-) Exactly. That's why the difference between good/bad packages is not their packaging format, but the (human driven) process to create and maintain them -- in that respect, Debian set a track record for years (which we, humble Fedora people, try to match ;-) (Actually usually it forces you to install stuff as root). No. It *allways* force you to install software as root. Distributions are managing a complex set of inter-dependent software components, from which users install substatial subsets (1K-2K components on an average desktop). They have to maintain them through upgrades, local config changes etc. -- This is huge and non-trivial activity. You suggest that every user is capable of achieving a similar result by installing his own software, acquired from some software vendor which is not involved in the packagin policy/process of the distribution. Also, he/she would install it by themselves (non-root) at some user selectable location. I'll try to be gentle... a quick reality check is called for. You don't have to guess how this model works -- Windows implement it successfully for decades. There may be many people thinking this is a good/workable/maintainable scheme. I beg to differ. So: Speed + Stability + Latest Version vs. best practice. What would you choose for your *developer* machine? As a developer *I* choose latest. That's why I use Fedora (I could have chosen Debian-testing and have a similar experience). However, there are many places that have developers that need constant hand-holding even for the simplest tasks. If this is the case, I would be giving them Centos/Debian-stable because I know me/someone would have to constantly support them. -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron If it's not source, it's not software. -- www.gnu.org ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Client recovery of NFS mount
On Wednesday, 12 בMay 2010 13:55:51 Ehud Karni wrote: On Wed, 12 May 2010 10:28:13 Tom Rosenfeld wrote: Is there a way in RHEL 5 for NFS clients to recover automatically after a server reboot? There is the hard (and intr that can go with it) option for NFS mounts: ... Beside the very valid and good advice Ehud just gave, let me add another one. Move to NFS4 (both server and clients of course). I have done it some 2 years ago and it pays big time in reliability (also performance, but that's less noticable in my (low-volume) case). -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron It's not the software that's free; it's you. - billyskank on Groklaw ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: [Haifux] [HAIFUX Workshop] The Web Rant Workshop
On Thursday, 22 בApril 2010 10:47:42 Orr Dunkelman wrote: Dear all, Next Monday, 26.4.10, at 18:30 we are going to have a rant workshop Great event! where we will try to contact as many webmasters as possible and try to convince them to offer a better support for FOSS browsers. It would be even more effective if people can get contact details of higher ranked officials (those that pays for the construction and maintenance of the website). E.g: the COO may get really pissed off to find that with all the money thrown at the company website, the result cause ~20% of potential visitor to stay out. To hold this event, we need one or two wireless access points (we shall offer wireless connection so people could send emails). If you have one that you can bring (including soft AP), please let me know. I have a (rarely used) wireless access point (not a router, only a single ethernet port). Since I am not sure I would be able to attend, someone may coordinate with me privately to pick it up beforehand (e.g: Sat or Sun -- I live ~150m from the Technion main gate). -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron We continue to live in a world where all our know-how is locked into binary files in an unknown format. If our documents are our corporate memory, Microsoft still has us all condemned to Alzheimer's. -- Simon Phipps ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Debian package - config files handling
Hi, As there are some (regretfully too few) DD's around here, I thought I'll throw a packaging problem at you... Normally dpkg will not overwrite existing configuration files (which is good in the common cases). Moreover, AFAIK there is no *declarative* way for a *packager* to modify this behaviour for a specific package. E.g: some debhelper simiar to RPM's %config and %config(noreplace) This means that all exceptions to this default behaviour should be handled in post/pre scripts (am I right?). I found this very helpfull Debian wiki page with specific use cases and examples: http://wiki.debian.org/DpkgConffileHandling However, I didn't find a good solution to my current use case: * I have a regular Debian package containing config files. (I am talking about logrotate, but nothing is specific to this package). * I built a customized version (with different cron files for logrotate). * This version replace a specific config file (create a specific /etc/cron.d/logrotate instead of /etc/cron.daily/logrotate). NOTE: the new file has different content *and* location. * The new and old config files should *not* co-exist. (we don't want to have both the old and new cron files). NOTE: We don't care about local modifications, but that doesn't seem to ease or make harder the specific problem. BTW: Something similar could be accomplished by the administrator via dpkg-divert(1). However I am looking for a solution that should be used by a *packager*. I found a reference to (ab)using dpkg-divert(1) from within packages: http://debathena.mit.edu/config-packages But before trying to hack the system, I would like to find if there isn't a more standard solution. What I tried so far: 1. Just package naively and hope for good ;-) a. When upgrading from old-cron to new-cron or downgrading we are left with two config files (old + new). 2. Remove the old config from the new postinst script. Remove the new config from the new prerm script: a. During upgrade the old config file is removed. b. dpkg -L wrongly show it (we cheeted, dpkg don't know we removed the file behind its back). c. Double upgrade old-new and then new-newer results with missing (new) config file (we removed it unconditionally in prerm). 3. Try to handle 2.b -- Remove the old config from the new *preinst*: a. Good: dpkg now see that the file is removed before the install complete and now dpkg -L is consistent with the old config file state. BTW: I didn't see any document mentioning that final list generation is done at install time (instead of packaging time), not to mention documenting at what *stage* the list is derived. Hmmm... what are the possible interactions between /var/lib/dpkg/info/foo.list generation at install time and optional /var/lib/dpkg/info/foo.md5sum (which should be) generated at build time (via dh_md5sum). Interesting... 4. Try to handle 2.c -- in the new prerm, test for the existance of the old config file before removing the new config file: * Didn't work (forgot why). * Moved it to new postrm. Didn't work either (forgot why). * Realizing it was time to sleep and my thinking gets fuzzy... 5. Current package: * The removal of the old config is OK as in 3. * Puke allert -- The removal of the new config is now conditioned on the *version* of the old package. * Obviously, this isn't a maintainable solution but it holds the water in the bucket during this week until I get more sleep and find something better... Solution? Ideas? Pointers? -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron ...there are two types of command interfaces in the world of computing: good interfaces and user interfaces. - Dan Bernstein, Author of qmail ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: mendele.co.il and linux
On Wednesday, 14 בApril 2010 13:25:05 Amos Shapira wrote: Just continuing and old thread about encouraging businesses which support Linux, mendele.co.il provide instructions on how to install fbreader specifically on Linux, and mention that it's included in Debian and Ubuntu: http://mendele.co.il/?page_id=99 Cheers for them. Even more important, it is a free software (GPL) which means that not only we are not locked out of this market, we are also not locked-in to specific vendors. -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron Ignore Your Rights And They'll Go Away ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Kudos to Osem
On Monday, 28 בDecember 2009 09:45:10 Shachar Shemesh wrote: Amichai Rotman wrote: (an executable file on the root directory of the CD) using WINE without any special settings. ... I wanted to share with fellow Linuxers, and give kudos when kudos are due. Just a clarification - shouldn't kudos where due go to Wine and Ubuntu? You are obviously correct. However... The special thanks for Osem should be for not being clueless -- E.g: let's use ActiveX, or even better, SilverPlight ;-) IMO, praising those who take the right path (from our point of view) is just as important as exposing the others on the wall of shame. -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron You know, someone once told me that New York has more lawyers than people. -- Warren Buffett, Fortune, 1999 ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Kudos to Osem
On Monday, 28 בDecember 2009 12:12:20 Elazar Leibovich wrote: Just a small remark. Using Silver(p?)light would be IMHO a much better choice for cross platform support. Currently Mono supports Silverlight 2.0, and its upcoming releases would support much more. Actually, a major benefit of the CLR environment is its cross platform support due to Mono. Believing and quoting Microsoft propaganda, is naive at best. Some testing and reading would show you the bitter truth. -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the universe is winning. -- Rick Cook, Mission Manager, NASA Mars Pathfinder Project ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: OOo presenter in Hebrew
On Saturday, 26 בDecember 2009 00:15:34 Uri Even-Chen wrote: OK, I'm trying to download Open Office now (version 3.11). The file size is 150MB - it's huge! Comparing to about 8MB of Firefox. I think end users will not bother to download such a big file. Let's compare oranges with oranges: MS-office 2010 trial version is 791MB -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron __ / / (_)__ __ __ / /__/ / _ \/ // /\ \/ / . . . t h e c h o i c e o f a //_/_//_/\_,_/ /_/\_\ G N U g e n e r a t i o n . . . ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Google Chrome vs. Firebox or good old Internet Explorer?
On Friday, 25 בDecember 2009 23:29:08 Uri Even-Chen wrote: But I prefer Internet Explorer, I will not switch to another browser ... But I'm not using Open Office, I have a version of Microsoft Office on my computer and I'm used to it. ... And I don't know which platform can replace Microsoft Access. In your last mails you started a quest for: - A Firefox that would behave like your beloved IE. - An OpenOffice.org that would be like your MS-Office. - something that would replace your MS-Access. - Linux that would behave like Windows(TM). From your posts I understand you already own Windows, IE, MS-Office and Access -- problem solved. Why seek for imitations if you have the original? Uri, it looks like microsoft-il or no-money-windows mailing lists would provide better answers to your needs. Cheers, -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron Linux lasts longer! -- Kim J. Brand k...@kimbrand.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Free software projects in Java or C++
On Friday, 25 בDecember 2009 23:38:38 Uri Even-Chen wrote: A friend of mine suggested me to join a free software (open source) project in Java or C++, to gain experience in these languages. Your friend gave you a good advice. However, please note that usually there is no *immediate* reward. It's not like a (free software) newbie joins a project and three months later he is swamped with job requests. Working on a free software project tend to increase your capabilities by exposing you to different technologies and working styles. On the long run (years), this can bring you not only fun, but work as well. Do you have an idea how to find a good project I can join, in Java or C++ or maybe Python? There are many sites hosting free software projects. Some of them: www.sourceforge.net savannah.gnu.org gna.org github.com Since you used some scripting languages in the past (PHP), it looks like python would provide easier learning curve for you. Good luck, -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron linux/reboot.h: #define LINUX_REBOOT_MAGIC1 0xfee1dead ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: combined printer and scanner for linux
On Wednesday, 23 בDecember 2009 17:26:09 Michael Vasiliev wrote: Not all HP MFT's are born equal. Mine is not partially supported in linux (no scanning support by sane and no duplexing support by hplip) Care to elaborate? (exact model, so others can avoid it). -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron Microsoft: We make virii work! ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Heads up: Israel software patents
Watch out, the land grab is heading our way... The Israeli Patent Office (IPO) has launched a consultation on whether or not to allow software patents, with a February 2010 deadline http://news.swpat.org/2009/11/israel-in-danger-of-software-patents/ http://en.swpat.org/wiki/Israel -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron UNIX was not designed to stop you from doing stupid things, because that would also stop you from doing clever things. --Doug Gwyn ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Home Theatre computer
On Tuesday, 10 בNovember 2009 10:09:00 Tzafrir Cohen wrote: The components are pretty standard: http://www.fit-pc.com/web/fit-pc2/specifications/ Specifically (quting from there) - Display Graphics: Intel GMA500 graphics acceleration Full hardware video acceleration of H.264, MPEG2, VC1, and WMV9 DVI Digital output up to 1920 x 1200 through HDMI connector So you have the chipset. I'm slightly skeptical regarding its drivers. And you are right indeed. Most Intel chipsets have free software drivers maintained by the vendor within the larger free software community (kernel, x.org, etc) However, the GMA500 (AKA Poulsbo) is different. It was licensed by Intel from some third party with closed source binary blobs. Adam Williamson described it the best: Intel GMA 500 (Poulsbo) graphics on Linux: a precise and comprehensive summary as to why you’re screwed [it is really comprehensive http://www.happyassassin.net/2009/01/30/ ] Those who are already stuck with this chipset may get some first aid: * Seems like Ubuntu is shipping the closed source driver (don't have the exact details) * Adam finally managed to compose an unofficial rpm which he pushed to rpmfusion.org (for Fedora) So anyone looking for graphics hardware -- buy Intel or ATI, but not the GMA500 Bye, -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron Q: What does FAQ stand for? A: We have Frequently Asked this Question, and we have no idea. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Zaptel on Debian Lenny
On Sunday, 1 בNovember 2009 15:19:50 eliyahu cohen wrote: lab*CLI module load chan_zap.so [Nov 1 08:07:54] WARNING[3242]: pbx.c:2981 ast_register_application: Already have an application 'ZapSendKeypadFacility' == Parsing '/etc/asterisk/zapata.conf': Found [Nov 1 08:07:54] WARNING[3242]: chan_zap.c:957 zt_open: Unable to specify channel 1: Device or resource busy [Nov 1 08:07:54] ERROR[3242]: chan_zap.c:7414 mkintf: Unable to open channel 1: Device or resource busy here = 0, tmp-channel = 1, channel = 1 [Nov 1 08:07:54] ERROR[3242]: chan_zap.c:11900 build_channels: Unable to register channel '1' Since you get a device busy error, the first thing to check is which process keep this channel open. It may be another asterisk process running in the background, or a zttool you forgot open on another terminal. For the definitive answer, simple user fuser(1). For example: fuser -v /dev/zap/* Also, as noted by IK in another reply the zaptel drivers are in the process of being phased out for DAHDI. However, I would suggest the opposite from Ido -- try to avoid building asterisk/DAHDI yourself. You are new to this subject and so you are bound to make many more mistakes in the process than the Debian maintainers. You should try to build your own, only AFTER you have gained experience with a WORKING asterisk/DAHDI for some time. Bye, -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron Linux: like the air you breathe, ubiquitous and free ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: how to disable PolicyKit?
On Saturday, 31 בOctober 2009 16:40:47 Diego Iastrubni wrote: On Friday 30 October 2009 01:40:07 Oron Peled wrote: I rather hate NetworkManager, too ;-). However, from the system point of view, I'd naively expect hal, udev, dbus, network, etc. to work without a policy kit developed by GUI people (I understand it comes from Gnome). Please try to cut the lines better next time. It looks like I said the above paragraph, while in reality it was Oleg... However, you are correct that it's easy to see its GNOME origins. There is no command line client. This is not because the design is bad or architectural limitations --- nobody bothered writing one yet. You can try wicd, I tested it under Debian and it was pretty good. I don't know how it will break Fedroa by killing NetworkManager and installing wicd What does it have to do with the subject? We discussed PolicyKit, integration with NetworkManager, lack of good command line integration and how bad is running big program stacks (GUI) as suid programs: 1. wicd is a GUI program (it uses GTK). 2. Like many similar older programs, there's no NetworkManager integration. 3. Therefore they all need to run as root (via suid/sudo/kdesu/etc) Cheers, -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron May the Source be with you! ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: how to disable PolicyKit?
I reordered the topics... On Thursday, 29 בOctober 2009 00:10:54 Oleg Goldshmidt wrote: Does anyone know how I can disable the bloody thing globally so that it shuts up once and for all? I am wary of uninstalling it bluntly after I tried to trace the RPM dependencies and got lost in the forest - the dependency net is cast widely indeed. Is it safe to rpm -e --nodeps? Will anything serious break? 1. Obviously. The dependencies are not there just for kicks. If you try to run: yum remove PolicyKit You'll see that if you approve (don't) it will remove most of the system. 2. It is pretty integrated with modern Linux distributions, as it is part of the new Linux plumbing, together with udev, dbus, hal (migrating to DeviceKit), NetworkManager and other *Kit thingies. It seems to be a complicated and cumbersome authentication/security framework that so far has not done me much harm (I think), but I blame it for popping up annoying and meaningless (to me) authorization dialog forms requiring username and password for all kinds of weird things, URLs, etc. http://scripts.felloweb.com comes to mind as one of the recent ones, 3. Not all authentication/authorization pop ups belong to PolicyKit. First check you are not blaming it for some other pop up generator. Some examples from the top of my head: * Firefox - to control access to web sites passwords. * kwallet - to control personal passwords for all KDE related apps (konqueror web site passwords, kopete, kmail etc.) * gnome-keyring - ditto, for GNOME apps. * gpg-agent (via pinentry) - for access to gpg private keys. * ssh-agent - for the ssh private keys (or you may configure gpg-agent to work for ssh as well...) Note: Obviously, it would be nice to unite them all together, but it's not trivial -- who is going to implement WalletKit ;-) 4. Before PolicyKit, different distros/desktops implemented workarounds for running privileged operations from the desktop. Examples: - kdesu from the KDE folks. - Something from gnome (forgot its name). - The venerable sudo. - Some pam tricks (used by Fedora) to enable selected GUI administrative programs to be run by a normal desktop user, after entering a password. Note that all these mechanisms also ask for passwords... and for the life of me I can't figure out why, on top of sudo, pam, SElinux, and everything else I need this thing from the fscking Gnome (pardon my French - I don't even use Gnome, but there is PolicyKit-kde as well). 5. First, there's more than one way to do it ;-) 6. The only overlap I see is with the old tricks mentioned in 4. which will gradually phase out as PolicyKit support enters more applications. All others serve totally different needs. 7. PolicyKit is about delegation of control: - In the old days, we only used su/sudo/other-suid-program for this. - But we don't want to run whole dekstop application as root (think about running network configuration GUI as root. How many buffer overflows are hiding in the whole GUI stack?) - So split architectures started to emerge (e.g: NetworkManager). A non-privileged GUI (e.g: nm-applet) talks to a privileged system service (NetworkManager itself). - PolicyKit provide a uniform desktop independent API to such application writers that so they know which client requests to respect and which to deny. It also provides a central control mechanism for administrators. What I really want to do is to kill the beast once and for all. Too late, it already escaped the cage some years ago ;-) -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron First we take Manhattan , then we take Berlin...(Leonard Cohen). Linux and Open Source - The Revolution of Choice ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: how to disable PolicyKit?
, udev, dbus, network, etc. to work without a policy kit developed by GUI people (I understand it comes from Gnome). NetworkManager didn't spring out ready and cooked. It gradually developed features and fixed deficiencies. I'll try to give an overview from my point of view (Fedora): * NetworkManager 0.65 (Fedora 7) was installed but *NOT* activated by default: - Because otherwise it would start sending DHCP requests on all interfaces, destroying the existing configuration. - Normal users, were not affected at all. - However, laptop users could enable it on boot. Disable the legacy /etc/init.d/network (so they don't fight over the interfaces) This would enable them to roam easily between wireless networks (a must have for mobile users). - It would choose the best interface (in his own opinion). E.g: plugging to a wired network would disconnect the wifi and connect to the wired network. * NetworkManager 0.7 (a pre-release included in Fedora 8) was enabled by default: - It had distribution dependent plugins that could parse the legacy configuration (/etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-* for Fedora) - So it only touched interfaces without legacy configuration. - It wasnt all or nothing anymore. You could have your wired connection with static config and Wifi with dynamic config. * Another feature added at roughly the same time was the ability to manage several connections and route among them WOW!!! Routing!!! What a novelty Sarcasm aside, NetworkManager today works reliably, handle a wide variety of scenarious (GSM modems, VPN configuration, etc.) and solves the problem of privilege separation (NetworkManager handle the root stuff, nm-applet handle the UI). However, you are correct that it's easy to see its GNOME origins. There is no command line client. This is not because the design is bad or architectural limitations --- nobody bothered writing one yet. In fact there is a useless command line client named nm-tool. The problem is that it only shows information, but don't have any arguments/options to *control* NetworkManager. Anybody pissed off by this (like me) is invited to write such a client or keep quiet ;-) [nm-tool may be used as a limited example) [While we are on the topic, I am still confused regarding when I am supposed to do $ sudo service NetworkManager restart If you want NetworkManager controlled interfaces. as opposed to $ sudo service network restart and what the difference is.] If you want the legacy configuration files. Anyway, if I put match user=oleg return result=yes/ /match in /etc/PolicyKit/PolicyKit.conf will it shut up forever and not bother me again? Yes, this is verbatim example from the manpage of PolicyKit.conf (OK, you changed the user name ;-) I did this yesterday, but I have not had enough time to check that the annoying popups have disappeared. If not: - Either a bug in PolicyKit -- please report - Or a pop up from something else. -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron באנו ווינדוס לגרש, בידינו פנגווין יש! ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Current recommendations for Linux-compatible printer?
On Friday, 23 בOctober 2009 13:09:31 Diego Iastrubni wrote: I have an HP printer/fax/scanner here. Nice piece of HW. I connected it to the wireless network, and under Windows it's a charm. Model? My HP Officejet 6313 is connected to the network (I didn't want the wireless model due to security: * Printing - flawless. * Scanning - same (xsane, gimp plugins, etc.) * Fax out - tested via the hp-toolbox - works. * Fax in - printed directly, didn't test if it has other features. * Media cards (e.g: MMC) - Locally print photos. In an older model I had (USB-based) I could mount it, but I don't see this option here. Cheers, -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron A billion flies _can_ be wrong - I'd rather eat lamb chops than shit. -- Linus Torvalds on lkml ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Desktop effects stopped working on Ubuntu 9.04
On Tuesday, 13 בOctober 2009 20:29:07 Ori Idan wrote: Thank you very much. I had to delete the display section and restart X Generally speaking, the Xorg developers recommend working without an /etc/X11/xorg.conf at all (assuming your distribution package a recent Xorg version + drivers). On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 7:37 PM, Ori Berger linux...@orib.net wrote: Ori Idan wrote: I have an Ubuntu 9.04 laptop with Intel 945 graphics adapter. Desktop effects worked until this morning when I connected it to an external monitor. After disconnecting the external monitor and restarting the laptop, desktop effects stopped working. Does someone have an idea how to reenable them? It's a known bug in the Intel driver: You placed the external screen to the left/right of the laptop screen, causing the effective screen width to be one that the Intel Driver does not support 3D acceleration for, thereby causing compiz to turn off effects. If effects won't turn on, check /etc/X11.conf under section Screen subsection Display to see it doesn't still list a too-wide screen (your laptop is probably 1024 or 1280 pixels wide). When this happened to me, I deleted the Display altogether and let Ubuntu re-figure it out itself, but a sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg might be helpful. And from now on, when you connect an external monitor, just be sure to place the screen above/below the laptop screen rather than to the left/right of it. -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron The Micro$oft principle: Make bugs, not war ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Adding Wireless to Cable Connection
On Thursday, 8 בOctober 2009 23:31:11 geoffrey mendelson wrote: Edimax, is IMHO a better choice. I bought a small Edimax access point some three years ago and was happy to find out they complied with the GPL (sources are readily available from their support page, and they put the GPL license notice in the first page of the user manual together with their own license notice). Since I haven't used tp-link products before, I just checked and easily found: http://www.tp-link.com/support/gpl.asp Personally, I like to put my money where my mouth is -- How nice that we now have several embedded vendors complying with free software licenses... [looks like gpl-violations.org is doing a nice job, both Edimax and D-Link needed some help to remember their legal obligations. It looks like both are more careful now.] Cheers, -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron Linux lasts longer! -- Kim J. Brand k...@kimbrand.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: New Essay - FOSS Licences Wars
Shlomi, have you noticed you are the only one so far that consistently cross post to several mailing lists? On Saturday, 3 בOctober 2009 15:48:53 Shlomi Fish wrote: ... the FSF is far too picky and fanatical about its choice of what is a 100% Free Distribution. From my understanding, the FSF does not even want to have references or mentions of non-free-software anywhere, or that there will be repositories of non-FOSS software. This seems way too irrational and impractical. Yeah, how irrational is the Free Software Foundation to refuse advertising and soliciting of non-free software... Shlomi, you are entitled to your own opinions and License choice. I (like most FOSS users and advocates) am already used to being called fanatical, irrational and impractical -- by users of non-free software. However, when someone makes these claims on a Linux mailing list they are obviously trolling -- maybe that's why you keep cross posting (trying to maximize impact). -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron I just found out that the brain is like a computer. If that's true, then there really aren't any stupid people. Just people running Windows. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: attaching lots of disks to PowerEdge 860?
On Wednesday, 30 בSeptember 2009 16:09:33 Amos Shapira wrote: Thanks but it's not as cheap as I was hoping for (starts at $1995) and is proprietary. I'd prefer to stick to something more open, like iSCSI, and cheaper. Leaving price aside, calling it proprietary is complete injustice to the product. Some history... http://lkml.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0404.2/1226.html Today... a snippet from 'modinfo aoe' description:AoE block/char driver for 2.6.2 and newer 2.6 kernels author: Sam Hopkins s...@coraid.com license:GPL vermagic: 2.6.30.8-64.fc11.i686.PAE SMP mod_unload 686 Also... $ yum list aoetools aoetools.i586 23-2.fc11installed In Debian... http://packages.qa.debian.org/a/aoetools.html Last but not least... http://www.coraid.com/RESOURCES/AoE-Protocol-Definition So we have a free software driver, in upstream kernel for several years, maintained by the company itself, including free software user space tools and with simple and accessible protocol definition -- I wish all hardware vendors were as open. Cheers, -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron Free software: each person contributes a brick, but ultimately each person receives a house in return. -- Brendan Scott ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: OT Electronics recycling
On Wednesday, 30 בSeptember 2009 18:03:28 Oleg Goldshmidt wrote: 2009/9/30 Noam Rathaus no...@beyondsecurity.com: We have broken electronics equipment which we would like to dispense with. I also seem to recall http://www.snunit-recycling.com. Never used either, so do your own checking. There's a snunit collection spot in the Technion: http://green-asat.blogspot.com/2008/05/blog-post.html It's in a bit obscure location but I managed to find it and used it a couple of times. -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron Protect your digital freedom and privacy, eliminate DRM, learn more at http://www.defectivebydesign.org/what_is_drm ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: sendmail smart host auth
On Tuesday, 22 בSeptember 2009 12:35:50 Erez D wrote: i am using bezeqint as my relay host. Me too. i edit my submit.cf and added: DSout.bezeqint.net 1. In the last 12 years I never touched a .cf file directly, always maintained the .mc files and generated the .cf files via m4. The default config provided by most distros (Fedora in my case) is pretty sane, so there is very little to change. 2. I always customized sendmail.mc and not submit.mc, but maybe it's because I'm using full sendmail as my mail-hub for my internal network. Maybe I should switch to ms-smp for my laptop as well. however i get Relaying denied, so i need to add authentication. anybody knows how ? Just did this last month (sorry, long url): http://life-with-linux.blogspot.com/2009/08/howto-sendmail-authentication- against.html please do not reply sendmail is bad, or switch to other MTA. Sendmail is bad for some people. Switch the people ;-) -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not tried it. -- Donald E. Knuth ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: [Haifux] Open Source Games or the Lack of Them
On Friday, 18 בSeptember 2009 16:50:38 Shlomi Fish wrote: Since a typical game nowadays costs a lot of money to develop, and requires the collaboration of many people, it seems unlikely that we will see many open-source games that are up-to-par with commercial offerings. Rubbish. I can still remember when people thought that writing small utilities (e.g: a shell) is OK, but a real COMPILER? Out of the question... OK, maybe a compiler yes, but a KERNEL? Nah... Surely, a full desktop is out of reach of a community effort... H these are all the easy ones. GAMES are the ultimate obstacle. No chance to tackle it. We are doomed :-O Shana Tova and may the source be with you. P.S: Shlomi, you've started debating by cross-posting to 3-4 large mailing lists. Cut it out! If you cannot choose the right mailing list for a post, just skip it until you do. -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron A billion flies _can_ be wrong - I'd rather eat lamb chops than shit. -- Linus Torvalds on lkml ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: [!! SPAM] RE: Virtualization recommendation
On Wednesday, 16 בSeptember 2009 00:24:16 Amos Shapira wrote: Yes. We use xen heavily on CentOS 5 at work and am pretty excited that RH 5.4 is out with KVM preview tech, I'm not an expert but got the impression that KVM might get things better than Xen eventually. If your CPU support virtualization extensions (egrep 'vmx|svm' /etc/cpuinfo) than KVM is definitely the way to go: * KVM is part of upstream kernel since 2.6.20 -- supported by every up to date distribution. * VirtualBox may be OK, but it's the kind of half-free solution. There's an Open Source Edition, but you have to use other editions for the full feature set. * Fully supported by libvirt (http://libvirt.org) which provides: - Remote management using TLS encryption and x509 certificates - Remote management authenticating with Kerberos and SASL - Local access control using PolicyKit - Zero-conf discovery using Avahi multicast-DNS - Management of virtual machines, virtual networks and storage - Portable client API for Linux, Solaris and Windows * Since libvirt also support Xen, this is great for mixed environment and migration (no need to change tools). * There's also virt-manager which is layered over libvirt and provide a GUI for the same management features and also secure console support (VNC encrypted over SSL or SSH) (http://virt-manager.et.redhat.com) Don't fall in the freebies trap -- חופשי זה יותר מחינם -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron Without the wind, the grass does not move. Without software, hardware is useless. -- Tao of Programming ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Feedback on Acer laptop w. Linux
On Friday, 4 בSeptember 2009 20:43:22 Diego Iastrubni wrote: On יום ראשון 30 אוגוסט 2009 11:36:03 Oron Peled wrote: I also make sure that the people who sell stuff will know *why* I chose their hardware While I do tend to agree with what you say... who are those people? Is it the poor salesman who gets payed 22nis/h for seeling on office depot? or the supplier/vendor? Anyone I encounter along the food chain -- the poor salesman, the technician that brings the stuff from the back-office, etc. Each of these people may look insignificant to you, but each of them is a computer expert to a wide circle of even more clueless customers, friends and neighbors As weird as it may sound to you, they have a lot of effect the non-tech public opinions (don't buy graphic cards from X/Y/Z, their products gets hot/cold/swine-flue, their drivers suck, etc, etc.) Let's get them, one at a time... -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any invention in human history with the possible exceptions of handguns and tequila. -- Mitch Ratliffe, April 1992 ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Feedback on Acer laptop w. Linux
On Sunday, 30 בAugust 2009 07:52:18 Boaz Rymland wrote: ... or, go for sure on the Linux pre-installed ones. Just a general warning (don't know if it applies to this specific model). Many devices on the market with Linux pre-installed have some binary components that make them worthless -- install your own version and many important features will stop working. As an example you can take all netbooks with Intel GMA-500 graphics chipset (Poulsbo) which needs binary blobs to function. AFAIK, many of Dell's netbooks are equipped with this chipset, so although they are pre-installed with Ubuntu your install/upgrade options are very restricted. This is an example of really bad move from Intel who otherwise has excellent free software support for its hardware. -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron Microsoft gives you windows, linux gives you the whole house. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Feedback on Acer laptop w. Linux
On Sunday, 30 בAugust 2009 10:15:51 Boaz Rymland wrote: On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 10:06:43 +0300, Oron Peled o...@actcom.co.il wrote: Just a general warning (don't know if it applies to this specific model). Many devices on the market with Linux pre-installed have some binary components that make them worthless -- install your own version and many important features will stop working. and isn't there a way, if it can be generalized at all, to: get a linux preinstalled laptop, install your own linux, then install the manufacturer packages/updates separately? Alternatively, can one, with little effort, collect those binaries from his pre-installed linux prior to installing other linux and put them on the new installation? (I guess this can be done, but the question is how much resources are needed to fully move all). Obviously the amount of effort to do this depends on many factors and may range from trivial to a major pain -- and because there's no source for these components, the help you can get from other people is also limited. I normally follow your original method -- put some effort *before* buying to have an idea about good/problematic hardware. I also make sure that the people who sell stuff will know *why* I chose their hardware (because its vendor is cooperating with the Linux community and as a result the hardware just work out of the box). As I haven't checked any of the recent netbook offerings, I cannot give any specific advice -- sorry. However, it would be very nice if you share your experience with the rest of us after you buy. Bye, -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron Free software: each person contributes a brick, but ultimately each person receives a house in return. -- Brendan Scott ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: PAE question
On 02.08.2009 Hetz Ben Hamo wrote: The Fedora 11 default installation installs the kernel with PAE installation *regardless* of how much RAM I have. I was wondering: are there any performance penalties when using PAE enabled kernel instead of the i686 version? Two links with some more reasoning/info: http://thorstenl.blogspot.com/2009/05/fedora-11-kernel-pae-and-what-it- means.html https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/ArchitectureSupport -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron ... Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: 0AD - A real-time strategy game, now in open source.
On 24.07.2009 Aviv Sharon wrote: Hi everybody, My name is Aviv Sharon, and I'm a 22-year-old student from Haifa and a member of Wildfire Games, a team of volunteer game developers working on 0 A.D. - a free, 3d, historically-based real-time strategy game. Wildfire Games has announced that it will be moving its previously closed development process for *0 A.D.* to open source. All code will be released under the GPL and all art under CC-BY-SA. Releasing the content serves to attract new developers to the project. We're looking for talented people who want to prove that open source games can be just as good as the proprietary ones. You're all welcome to check out the project and join. Just a quick report -- built on Fedora-10: * I just made a quick and dirty test, no RPM's yet. In addition to what I already had on my system I needed the following packages from the standard repositories: boost-devel libxml2-devel wxGTK-devel js-devel openal-devel gamin-devel nasm cryptonpp-devel enet-devel libjpeg-devel binutils-devel DevIL-devel DevIL-ILUT-devel * ACE isn't packaged for Fedora due to licensing issues. However, there are RPM's and SRPM's maintained on: http://dist.bonsai.com/ken/ace_tao_rpm/ I grabbed the SRPM, rebuilt it cleanly and installed it. * There was one build problem -- the sources include SpiderMonkey headers as #include js/js, while the Fedora js-devel package install them directly under /usr/include and not in a js/ subdirectory. I didn't have time to investigate who is right/more-up-to-date etc. As a workaround I simply created a symlink as root: ln -s . /usr/include/js Cheers, -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. -- Edsger Wybe Dijkstra ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: inet_ntoa and segmentation fault
On 15.07.2009 Shachar Shemesh wrote: The problem: The following code segfaults: printf(%s\n, inet_ntoa(addr) ); The cause: Failing to include the relevant header file. The solution: Add: #include arpa/inet.h Easier to catch during compile time: CFLAGS='-Wall -Werror' This would fail the build because of missing prototypes. -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron Linux lasts longer! -- Kim J. Brand k...@kimbrand.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: voip problems
On 27.06.2009 Erez D wrote: What happens if you connect a simple phone instead of the FXO adapter? Does it work? Someone will check that for me tomorrow. But the adsl works and people get no answer so i guess it is fine It seems that although the adsl works, the voice line is dead. The first suspect in this case is the ADSL splitter . -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron Linux is a trademark of Linus Torvalds in the USA and other countries. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Fwd: XenServer is enterprise-ready and free.
On 26.06.2009 Amos Shapira wrote: I just received a promotion for Free XenServer through חופשי זה יותר מחינם And to the Hebrew-challenged -- Libre is more than gratis. -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron I love deadlines, especially the whooshing sound they make as they go by. -- Douglas Adams ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Setting NFS server on Fedora Core 9
On 25.06.2009 Ori Idan wrote: I am trying to set an NFS server (for a local network) on fedora 9 I have exported the directory in /etc/exports I have started rpcbind and nfs From another computer (in this case running Ubuntu) I tried mounting the directory. After few seconds I got an error mount.nfs mount system call failed First let's test the network end-to-end. From the client: $ rpcinfo -t server 15 program 15 version 1 ready and waiting program 15 version 2 ready and waiting program 15 version 3 ready and waiting $ rpcinfo -u server 15 program 15 version 1 ready and waiting program 15 version 2 ready and waiting program 15 version 3 ready and waiting Than repeat the test for the nfs protocol itself (use 13 instead of 15). These tests send a null request and test the result. If they pass: * No need to test connectivity or firewall. * No need to test rpcbind work OK. * No need to test that the service itself is OK. * Just config/permission problems. If they fail, you now have a list of what to test... One last note -- Fedora-9 is EOL in ~two weeks. Better plan your upgrade/replacement path (I already upgraded all my hosts to F11) Cheers, -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://www.actcom.co.il/~oron The speed of light really is too slow nowdays. -- Alan Cox ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
OT: Bezeqint made me poof... he's gone
Good day (cross-posted, check when replying). A a previous customer of Actcom I continued with Bezeqint under the same terms (including a contract renewal ~1 year ago). Few days ago I accidentally discovered that my hosted homepage wasn't accessible -- further tests + ~1 hour on the phone (navigating through Bezeqint support structure) revealed the unbelievable THE FREAKING BASTARDS PULLED THE PLUG ON THE DOMAINS WITHOUT EVEN TELLING ANYBODY. I'm now in damage control mode (formal faxes to customer support, etc.) Anybody else? -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://www.actcom.co.il/~oron Promises are like babies: fun to make, but hell to deliver. -- Nadav Har'El ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: OT: Bezeqint made me poof... he's gone
On 09.06.2009 Shachar Shemesh wrote: Oron Peled wrote: ... Few days ago I accidentally discovered that my hosted homepage wasn't accessible -- further tests + ~1 hour on the phone (navigating through Bezeqint support structure) revealed the unbelievable THE FREAKING BASTARDS PULLED THE PLUG ON THE DOMAINS WITHOUT EVEN TELLING ANYBODY. I'm now in damage control mode (formal faxes to customer support, etc.) Anybody else? Are you sure your email still works? So far... ;-) Other interesting facts: Someone on the list mentioned that users.actcom.co.il/~oron is still there. I checked and it's and amazingly still there. But they left it as an isolated island: - The host users.actcom.co.il is not accessible (they probably just redirected some urls) - Who is allowed to crawl it? Nobody. $ wget -qO - http://users.actcom.co.il/robots.txt User-agent: * Disallow: / - The www.actcom.co.il is totally down with no redirection. which means many broken links. To be continued... -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://www.actcom.co.il/~oron Debugging is at least twice as hard as writing the program in the first place. So if your code is as clever as you can possibly make it, then by definition you're not smart enough to debug it. -- Brian Kernighan ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
