Re: [Meta] Smart People Leaving Linux-IL
On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 04:20, you wrote: El lun, 16-08-2004 a las 09:08, Shlomi Fish escribió: Hi all! I noticed a trend when talking to some people face to face, and that is that many of them (and I'm referring to smart, expert, even full-fledged hacker people) stop reading the Linux-IL mailing list after a while. Their reasons vary. Some of the things I heard: 1. Linux-IL is the core of too many flame-wars. 2. Linux-IL has a low signal-to-noise ratio. In Mendoza, Argentina, we have succesufully reduced the SNR by creating a list that allows ANY discussion. When a flame is started in the lug list We just continue the thread in that other list. You probably mean _increased_ the SNR. SNR is Signal-to-Noise Ratio, and if it's high, then it's better. (it's a term derived from Electrical Engineering :-)). In any case, I like this idea so much that I started a charter for this list on the Hackers-IL Wiki: http://www.hackers.org.il/mediawiki/index.php/Linux-il-chat Feel free to correct or add more things there (or say your opinion below), or in the Discuss this page link. Note that I haven't formed the mailing list yet, nor intend to in the meantime. It's just that I like this idea. Regards, Shlomi Fish -- - Shlomi Fish [EMAIL PROTECTED] Homepage:http://shlomif.il.eu.org/ Knuth is not God! It took him two days to build the Roman Empire. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Meta] Smart People Leaving Linux-IL
I don't see what's the urge of pleasing everyone? each mailing list has its own crowd, there are debian-il mailing list hackers-il newbies and so on, there is no law against being on more than one mailing list, there is also linux-il-annonce which is just for important annoncements but seems not to really be in use anymore. linux-il is a very social list, and at least for me is what I like about it. I don't like those over technical lists which shoot you down everytime you say something off topic, and I find that seperating linux-il and newbies lists was a preety good idea, (forgot whose). changing the nature of the list maybe would bring few new ppl but would probebly make you loose others, and anyhow if those ppl wanted change they should have asked for it, if they went away it means linux-il as a social place is not important to them, and I don't see why we should care about them?. Ely Levy System group Hebrew University Jerusalem Israel On Wed, 18 Aug 2004, Shlomi Fish wrote: On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 04:20, you wrote: El lun, 16-08-2004 a las 09:08, Shlomi Fish escribió: Hi all! I noticed a trend when talking to some people face to face, and that is that many of them (and I'm referring to smart, expert, even full-fledged hacker people) stop reading the Linux-IL mailing list after a while. Their reasons vary. Some of the things I heard: 1. Linux-IL is the core of too many flame-wars. 2. Linux-IL has a low signal-to-noise ratio. In Mendoza, Argentina, we have succesufully reduced the SNR by creating a list that allows ANY discussion. When a flame is started in the lug list We just continue the thread in that other list. You probably mean _increased_ the SNR. SNR is Signal-to-Noise Ratio, and if it's high, then it's better. (it's a term derived from Electrical Engineering :-)). In any case, I like this idea so much that I started a charter for this list on the Hackers-IL Wiki: http://www.hackers.org.il/mediawiki/index.php/Linux-il-chat Feel free to correct or add more things there (or say your opinion below), or in the Discuss this page link. Note that I haven't formed the mailing list yet, nor intend to in the meantime. It's just that I like this idea. Regards, Shlomi Fish -- - Shlomi Fish [EMAIL PROTECTED] Homepage:http://shlomif.il.eu.org/ Knuth is not God! It took him two days to build the Roman Empire. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Meta] Smart People Leaving Linux-IL
On Tue, Aug 17, 2004, Ira Abramov wrote about Re: [Meta] Smart People Leaving Linux-IL: That only works in civilized countries. This is Israel and Jews like to argue (it's in our genes) No we don't! (sorry, couldn't pass up a Monty Python reference ;)). -- Nadav Har'El| Tuesday, Aug 17 2004, 30 Av 5764 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone +972-523-790466, ICQ 13349191 |Make it idiot proof and someone will make http://nadav.harel.org.il |a better idiot. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Meta] Smart People Leaving Linux-IL
El mar, 17-08-2004 a las 01:43, Ira Abramov escribi: Quoting Alfredo Daniel Rezinovsky, from the post of Mon, 16 Aug: In Mendoza, Argentina, we have succesufully reduced the SNR by creating a list that allows ANY discussion. When a flame is started in the lug list We just continue the thread in that other list. In our list almost every flame was started by one user, so we have put the list lug-This_UserName. That only works in civilized countries. This is Israel and Jews like to argue (it's in our genes) and a good flame cannot be given up to some other list. It has to stay and be seen or else it's not worth starting in the first place. I'm from Argentina, did you saw any telenovelot ? Don't talk me about civilized countries :-) If this list was moderated and flames were stopped even before going in, you would immediatly see 50% of the posters unsubscribe since it's not fun anymore. There's no need to moderate the list. When a flame starts and get heavy, Any user can just change the to: to the flame list, and eventually post a moved to flames-list to the mail list. The flame will not stop, it will just continue in that other list. Letting to have fun to people that likes flames and to avoid them to the other people. I'm sorry if I'm too cynical about it, but I have been on this list for 10 years now (when is our birthday, btw?) and I learned that you can't avoid the flames, you can only step out of the kitchen for short periods, which I have done as well on occasion. -- = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Meta] Smart People Leaving Linux-IL
Quoting Alfredo Daniel Rezinovsky, from the post of Tue, 17 Aug: In Mendoza, Argentina, we have succesufully reduced the SNR That only works in civilized countries. I'm from Argentina, I know. Irony is like lego, and you gave me a wonderful block to build on :) did you saw any telenovelot ? Don't talk me about civilized countries :-) Have you seen OUR Junta government, General against general, spliting villages from workplaces schools and hospitals with a 7 meter wall which I pay for like a sucker and can't pull out of my overdraft for over a year. who is more uncivilized NOW, ha? HA?! that's it, I win :) There's no need to moderate the list. When a flame starts and get heavy, Any user can just change the to: to the flame list, and eventually post a moved to flames-list to the mail list. As I said, this works only in civilised countries. here nobody who is IN the fight will decide to take it outside, and even if one of them does, their co-arguers may not choose to leave. afterall nobody really would admit wanting to fight, who will subscribe to the other list anyway? now let's finish this meta thread already. it's gone off topic eons ago. -- A walking Rorschach inkblot Ira Abramov http://ira.abramov.org/email/ = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Meta] Smart People Leaving Linux-IL
Hi all! I noticed a trend when talking to some people face to face, and that is that many of them (and I'm referring to smart, expert, even full-fledged hacker people) stop reading the Linux-IL mailing list after a while. Their reasons vary. Some of the things I heard: 1. Linux-IL is the core of too many flame-wars. 2. Linux-IL has a low signal-to-noise ratio. Now, the activity on this mailing list seems to still be strong, but I'd rather we did not scare people like that. As I stressed before, these are not newbies who are overwhelmed. These are smart people who are not Qotley Qinim. One option is to split this mailing list. One possibility would be: 1. linux-il - mailing list for QA and newbie questions.[1] Also announcements of events. 2. events coordination. (or is one of @hamakor.org.il mailing lists adequate?) 3. linux-il-cafe or linux-il-non-tech - chit-chat, movies, off-topic discussion, humour, philosophy, etc. etc. Technical conversation is also welcome. Sometimes conversations will be moved there. This aims to be a social forum for Linux-IL members so they can get to know each other and discuss the things they like. 4. linux-il-wars - discussing Windows vs. Unix, Linux vs. BSD, vi vs. Emcas, PostgreSQL vs. MySQL vs. Firebird vs. MaxDB, Perl vs. Python vs. Ruby vs. Tcl vs. PHP, Scheme/LISP vs. Perl/Python/Ruby, Java vs. .NET, etc. etc. Sometimes conversations will be moved there as well from different mailing list. -- Any others? So far, I think it's a good idea. Regards, Shlomi Fish [1] - the reason I designate this as such is to avoid the EF-Net #perl/#perlhelp effect. What happened was that they got tired of newbie questions in #perl so they started #perlhelp. However, Perl newbies automatically try #perl at first time, do not read the topic and ask their question. What they've could have done was designate #perl as a newbies channel, and #perlcafe for the advanced users. -- - Shlomi Fish [EMAIL PROTECTED] Homepage:http://shlomif.il.eu.org/ Knuth is not God! It took him two days to build the Roman Empire. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Meta] Smart People Leaving Linux-IL
Quoting Shlomi Fish, from the post of Mon, 16 Aug: Hi all! I noticed a trend when talking to some people face to face, and that is that many of them (and I'm referring to smart, expert, even full-fledged hacker people) stop reading the Linux-IL mailing list after a while. Their reasons vary. Some of the things I heard: 1. Linux-IL is the core of too many flame-wars. 2. Linux-IL has a low signal-to-noise ratio. 3. there are too many meta-discussions about splitting the list or moving it around or changing its sex. folds into above point, but leqads a life of its own. Sometimes conversations will be moved there as well from different mailing list. that works for PHPbb maybe, not EZMLM or whatever we are using these days. -- The brains of the operation Ira Abramov http://ira.abramov.org/email/ = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Meta] Smart People Leaving Linux-IL
On Mon, Aug 16, 2004, Shlomi Fish wrote about [Meta] Smart People Leaving Linux-IL: I noticed a trend when talking to some people face to face, and that is that many of them (and I'm referring to smart, expert, even full-fledged hacker people) stop reading the Linux-IL mailing list after a while. Their reasons vary. Some of the things I heard: 1. Linux-IL is the core of too many flame-wars. So you decided to start a new one? :) 2. Linux-IL has a low signal-to-noise ratio. What about the less judgemental and simpler 3. Linux-il has a high volume, with a high number of postings on a very wide range of topics. When I started the ivrix-discuss list, almost 5 years ago, I noticed the same problem. Linux-il was an extremely busy list (even then), and most of its discussions didn't interest me. I was not (at the time) interested or could not find the time for social or philosophical discussion, or discussions on how to run various programs on Linux on how to configure various modems and video cards. I wanted only to discuss Hebrew on Linux, and I thought that many other people will want to do the same, which is why I created the ivrix-discuss list. Today the number of Hebrew-related posts on linux-il itself has grown, but it remains a small minority of the posts. This is why I still consider ivrix-discuss a valuable splinter list. 4. linux-il-wars - discussing Windows vs. Unix, Linux vs. BSD, vi vs. Emcas, PostgreSQL vs. MySQL vs. Firebird vs. MaxDB, Perl vs. Python vs. Ruby vs. Tcl vs. PHP, Scheme/LISP vs. Perl/Python/Ruby, Java vs. .NET, etc. etc. This suggestion makes sense just like the evil bit April-fools RFC :) Why would somebody who posts a flame want to send it to a wars mailing list? -- Nadav Har'El| Monday, Aug 16 2004, 29 Av 5764 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone +972-523-790466, ICQ 13349191 |Arguing with nyh just doesn't pay off. http://nadav.harel.org.il |-- Muli Ben-Yehuda, Linux-il list = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Meta] Smart People Leaving Linux-IL
Well, Here's how I feel. I am somewhere in between a newbie and a poweruser. Often the more technical things are above my head but I find that later I use that information and would sure miss it, as I would not enjoy having to subscribe to an extra list (I count 12 I am currently subscribed to). The newbie stuff aslo is good, sometimes I even get to answer such a question :). If the war issues is the main issue what about a rule against them and or at least not letting them get deep ie multithreaded as sometimes happens. In either case, I get answers here I often don't find any other place. BTW howmany people are we talking about who are staying away? Is it 2 or 22? Maybe these people would stay away even with the changes suggested?? Maybe before making a drastic move, you could ask them Anyways I really enjoy the group and hope it continues. Thanks Aaron On Mon, 2004-08-16 at 16:08, Shlomi Fish wrote: Hi all! I noticed a trend when talking to some people face to face, and that is that many of them (and I'm referring to smart, expert, even full-fledged hacker people) stop reading the Linux-IL mailing list after a while. Their reasons vary. Some of the things I heard: 1. Linux-IL is the core of too many flame-wars. 2. Linux-IL has a low signal-to-noise ratio. Now, the activity on this mailing list seems to still be strong, but I'd rather we did not scare people like that. As I stressed before, these are not newbies who are overwhelmed. These are smart people who are not Qotley Qinim. One option is to split this mailing list. One possibility would be: 1. linux-il - mailing list for QA and newbie questions.[1] Also announcements of events. 2. events coordination. (or is one of @hamakor.org.il mailing lists adequate?) 3. linux-il-cafe or linux-il-non-tech - chit-chat, movies, off-topic discussion, humour, philosophy, etc. etc. Technical conversation is also welcome. Sometimes conversations will be moved there. This aims to be a social forum for Linux-IL members so they can get to know each other and discuss the things they like. 4. linux-il-wars - discussing Windows vs. Unix, Linux vs. BSD, vi vs. Emcas, PostgreSQL vs. MySQL vs. Firebird vs. MaxDB, Perl vs. Python vs. Ruby vs. Tcl vs. PHP, Scheme/LISP vs. Perl/Python/Ruby, Java vs. .NET, etc. etc. Sometimes conversations will be moved there as well from different mailing list. -- Any others? So far, I think it's a good idea. Regards, Shlomi Fish [1] - the reason I designate this as such is to avoid the EF-Net #perl/#perlhelp effect. What happened was that they got tired of newbie questions in #perl so they started #perlhelp. However, Perl newbies automatically try #perl at first time, do not read the topic and ask their question. What they've could have done was designate #perl as a newbies channel, and #perlcafe for the advanced users. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Meta] Smart People Leaving Linux-IL
Quoting Shlomi Fish [EMAIL PROTECTED]: One option is to split this mailing list. One possibility would be: 1. linux-il - mailing list for QA and newbie questions.[1] Also announcements of events. (snip) First, the list was not supposed to be a newbie list in any case, so this first one doesn't make sense. I'm sure people don't want to downgrade this list into a newbie list, and that's why there is a different mailing list call gnubies. Second, the forum method in which you move threads into a different forums when they become irrelevant for the discussion is not applicable to mailing list. There is no sane person who will subscibe to a linux-il-wars list. Most of us subscribe to lists for sane reasons, and start a flame war incidentally, wishing in general that there are less flame wars and more info. Also, how exactly do you move a discussion? And how do you cause a person who is subscribed to one mailing list to be aware that there is a discussion going on in another list to which he is not subscribed? In a forum system, there are various ways to do that. First, they are all available to everybody, and you can look in from time to time, and second, there are usually things like last messages posted areas in the main page which tell you something. You can also keep track of your thread even if it moved, if you have asked for email updates on it, because even when it moves, you still get the e-mail reminders. All of which doesn't happen in mailing lists and would be too convoluted to try to implement by social engineering. In my many years of mailing list and forum experience, I came to one sad conclusion: in order for a mailing list to be productive, with low noise and high content, it has to have strict rules, and ruthless and very active moderators, who are not ashamed to kick people out when they break the rules after they have been warned. Herouth = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Meta] Smart People Leaving Linux-IL
I think that sometimes even experienced Linux developers have newbie questions that relate to areas outside their expertise. So - being a newbie on a particular topic is nothing to be ashamed about. Regarding flames - I've seen a lot worse; and if you cant flame a bit in the list then where are you supposed to go to rant and vent a bit? my 2 cents Danny Lieberman OSI-Open Solutions Israel +972-8-970-1485(voice) +972-54-471114(Cell) www.opensolutions.co.il - Original Message - From: Herouth Maoz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Shlomi Fish [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Linux-IL [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 3:40 PM Subject: Re: [Meta] Smart People Leaving Linux-IL Quoting Shlomi Fish [EMAIL PROTECTED]: One option is to split this mailing list. One possibility would be: 1. linux-il - mailing list for QA and newbie questions.[1] Also announcements of events. (snip) First, the list was not supposed to be a newbie list in any case, so this first one doesn't make sense. I'm sure people don't want to downgrade this list into a newbie list, and that's why there is a different mailing list call gnubies. Second, the forum method in which you move threads into a different forums when they become irrelevant for the discussion is not applicable to mailing list. There is no sane person who will subscibe to a linux-il-wars list. Most of us subscribe to lists for sane reasons, and start a flame war incidentally, wishing in general that there are less flame wars and more info. Also, how exactly do you move a discussion? And how do you cause a person who is subscribed to one mailing list to be aware that there is a discussion going on in another list to which he is not subscribed? In a forum system, there are various ways to do that. First, they are all available to everybody, and you can look in from time to time, and second, there are usually things like last messages posted areas in the main page which tell you something. You can also keep track of your thread even if it moved, if you have asked for email updates on it, because even when it moves, you still get the e-mail reminders. All of which doesn't happen in mailing lists and would be too convoluted to try to implement by social engineering. In my many years of mailing list and forum experience, I came to one sad conclusion: in order for a mailing list to be productive, with low noise and high content, it has to have strict rules, and ruthless and very active moderators, who are not ashamed to kick people out when they break the rules after they have been warned. Herouth = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Meta] Smart People Leaving Linux-IL
Only now I noticed that the Linux-IL is overdue for the periodical discussion why people leave it, whether to split into more mailing lists or not, and whether to allow vi vs. emacs flamewars. See: http://oii.org/lists/lifecycle.html and share with your girlfriend/wife the sorrow of the bloody days of the period. And if you observe taharat ha'mispacha, refrain from touching the mailing list during those nidah days i.e. do not post messages until you have counted seven clean days after the current meta-discussion has died. On Mon, 16 Aug 2004, Ira Abramov wrote: Quoting Shlomi Fish, from the post of Mon, 16 Aug: Hi all! I noticed a trend when talking to some people face to face, and that is that many of them (and I'm referring to smart, expert, even full-fledged hacker people) stop reading the Linux-IL mailing list after a while. Their reasons vary. Some of the things I heard: 1. Linux-IL is the core of too many flame-wars. 2. Linux-IL has a low signal-to-noise ratio. 3. there are too many meta-discussions about splitting the list or moving it around or changing its sex. folds into above point, but leqads a life of its own. --- Omer My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Meta] Smart People Leaving Linux-IL
This is most unfortuently true. I hate the rules but, my first month on a few of my lists I got offlist messeges telling me to read the rules. I understood the need for rules, and followed them. Aaron In my many years of mailing list and forum experience, I came to one sad conclusion: in order for a mailing list to be productive, with low noise and high content, it has to have strict rules, and ruthless and very active moderators, who are not ashamed to kick people out when they break the rules after they have been warned. Herouth = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Meta] Smart People Leaving Linux-IL
After reading the above, I would vote to leave the list as it is. Aaron On Mon, 2004-08-16 at 17:18, Omer Zak wrote: Only now I noticed that the Linux-IL is overdue for the periodical discussion why people leave it, whether to split into more mailing lists or not, and whether to allow vi vs. emacs flamewars. See: http://oii.org/lists/lifecycle.html and share with your girlfriend/wife the sorrow of the bloody days of the period. And if you observe taharat ha'mispacha, refrain from touching the mailing list during those nidah days i.e. do not post messages until you have counted seven clean days after the current meta-discussion has died. On Mon, 16 Aug 2004, Ira Abramov wrote: Quoting Shlomi Fish, from the post of Mon, 16 Aug: Hi all! I noticed a trend when talking to some people face to face, and that is that many of them (and I'm referring to smart, expert, even full-fledged hacker people) stop reading the Linux-IL mailing list after a while. Their reasons vary. Some of the things I heard: 1. Linux-IL is the core of too many flame-wars. 2. Linux-IL has a low signal-to-noise ratio. 3. there are too many meta-discussions about splitting the list or moving it around or changing its sex. folds into above point, but leqads a life of its own. --- Omer My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Meta] Smart People Leaving Linux-IL
Aaron wrote: After reading the above, joke If you're going to write the above, at least have the decency to bottom-post rather than top-post! /joke Yeah, yet another bottom-vs-top post flame :-) -- Offer Kaye = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Meta] Smart People Leaving Linux-IL
Shlomi Fish wrote: Hi all! I noticed a trend when talking to some people face to face, and that is that many of them (and I'm referring to smart, expert, even full-fledged hacker people) stop reading the Linux-IL mailing list after a while. Their reasons vary. Some of the things I heard: 1. Linux-IL is the core of too many flame-wars. I know that more then once, I discover new information about things on flame-wars between two (or more) peope that DO know what they are talking about... For example, one of the reason I stoped using few things in my computer is because of a flame-ware that I read once... 2. Linux-IL has a low signal-to-noise ratio. I found myself few times since I first register, sorry to ever ask the question in the first place... For example take alot at a suggestion I gave in behalf of a friend, that wanted to give back to the open-source community, because the open-source helped his company. And I can put some ore things... Now, the activity on this mailing list seems to still be strong, but I'd rather we did not scare people like that. As I stressed before, these are not newbies who are overwhelmed. These are smart people who are not Qotley Qinim. One option is to split this mailing list. One possibility would be: 1. linux-il - mailing list for QA and newbie questions.[1] Also announcements of events. 2. events coordination. (or is one of @hamakor.org.il mailing lists adequate?) 3. linux-il-cafe or linux-il-non-tech - chit-chat, movies, off-topic discussion, humour, philosophy, etc. etc. Technical conversation is also welcome. Sometimes conversations will be moved there. This aims to be a social forum for Linux-IL members so they can get to know each other and discuss the things they like. 4. linux-il-wars - discussing Windows vs. Unix, Linux vs. BSD, vi vs. Emcas, PostgreSQL vs. MySQL vs. Firebird vs. MaxDB, Perl vs. Python vs. Ruby vs. Tcl vs. PHP, Scheme/LISP vs. Perl/Python/Ruby, Java vs. .NET, etc. etc. Sometimes conversations will be moved there as well from different mailing list. -- Any others? So far, I think it's a good idea. Regards, Shlomi Fish [1] - the reason I designate this as such is to avoid the EF-Net #perl/#perlhelp effect. What happened was that they got tired of newbie questions in #perl so they started #perlhelp. However, Perl newbies automatically try #perl at first time, do not read the topic and ask their question. What they've could have done was designate #perl as a newbies channel, and #perlcafe for the advanced users. The rest of what I have to say people already said before this post... Ido -- Supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting. Sun Tzu = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Meta] Smart People Leaving Linux-IL
Quoting Alfredo Daniel Rezinovsky, from the post of Mon, 16 Aug: In Mendoza, Argentina, we have succesufully reduced the SNR by creating a list that allows ANY discussion. When a flame is started in the lug list We just continue the thread in that other list. That only works in civilized countries. This is Israel and Jews like to argue (it's in our genes) and a good flame cannot be given up to some other list. It has to stay and be seen or else it's not worth starting in the first place. If this list was moderated and flames were stopped even before going in, you would immediatly see 50% of the posters unsubscribe since it's not fun anymore. I'm sorry if I'm too cynical about it, but I have been on this list for 10 years now (when is our birthday, btw?) and I learned that you can't avoid the flames, you can only step out of the kitchen for short periods, which I have done as well on occasion. -- Teacher on strike Ira Abramov http://ira.abramov.org/email/ = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
