RE: [iglu] Double posting to iglu and linux-il?
> benefits of the move). Later the idea of having two lists materialized > somehow (I am not sure how, but I have the impression that it happened > after the iglu subscriber count turned out less than impressive). I Nope. It materialized during our virtual IRC meeting. Thanks, Chen Shapira Its late at night and the stars are deep Thats OK I don't need sleep = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [iglu] Double posting to iglu and linux-il?
Ira Abramov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Iglu didn't even START working. like maddog keeps telling people who > want to start LUGs and make activities happen: slowly slowly. don't > expect everything overnight. let things shape themselves. I can't > imagine on what grounds you have already set such strong opinions... I am afraid I wasn't quite clear. Correct me if I am wrong. I thought that the original suggestion was that eGroups/iglu would take the place of linux-il as a (hopefully) better engine for the list and the other activities of the group (polls, calendars, etc were mentioned as benefits of the move). Later the idea of having two lists materialized somehow (I am not sure how, but I have the impression that it happened after the iglu subscriber count turned out less than impressive). I thought that the *move* to eGroups had to be given a fair trial. I still don't mind the move, if we are talking about a move from linux-il/listar to iglu/eGroups. I have *always* been of the opinion that we don't need two lists. I think it is not warranted given the traffic volume. -- Oleg Goldshmidt | BLOOMBERG L.P. (BFM) | [EMAIL PROTECTED] "... We work by wit, and not by witchcraft; And wit depends on dilatory time." - W. Shakespeare. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [iglu] Double posting to iglu and linux-il?
On 31 Jan 2000, Oleg Goldshmidt wrote: > threads. What were the words in the kernel documentation: Let's all > kill this beast [IGLU in this case]? > 1) Currently I am subscribed to both lists. I think I was one of the >first IGLU subscribers because I thought we should give it a fair >try. My conclusion is that it is not needed. Iglu didn't even START working. like maddog keeps telling people who want to start LUGs and make activities happen: slowly slowly. don't expect everything overnight. let things shape themselves. I can't imagine on what grounds you have already set such strong opinions... > 2) This is not a criticism of Ira's laudable efforts to liven up this >forum's activities. thanks. I won't take the kick in the groin personally now. > The only concern is, as >Shaul mentions, missing an important announcement or an interesting >tidbit of information, for that there are: - master lists that spread to two or more ohers without dups - announcement lists (and we have linux-il-announce, are you all subscribed? I'm resending the details of this Friday's IGLU meeting) but I'll say again what I said over 3 months ago when I rejoined the list: the problem is not with the list doing the wrong things, and it's not even about people simply objecting to doing anything at all. it's the vast majority of people who don't CARE about what needs to be done. over two weeks ago I announced for the third time about this Friday's (4.2.2000) IGLU meeting and noone wrote in to ack my RSVP. I guess that means people will either come without telling me or won't come at all. I won't be able to reserve such nice rooms with projectors and all if I can't even get 5 people to say they will come. I wanna count Emails in that mailfolder, otherwise I see no point in linux demo days, linux booths or a LUG at all. there will be Haifux and a mailing list and finito (and much less headache, and heartache, for me). watch out for the final invitation to the IGLU meeting on linux-il-announce list in a few minutes and RSVP. I wanna make sure I'm not doing it just for 3-4 people, because for 9 people my living room is big enough... -- Ira Abramov ; whois:IA58 ; www.scso.com ; all around Linux enthusiast Avoid the Gates of Hell. Use Linux (Unknown source) = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [iglu] Double posting to iglu and linux-il?
Basically I believe Nadav is right. However, I did subscribed iglu because I see no other alternative. Seems that many linux-il members have joined, and not joining would left me behind. Still, if it was up to me then I would prefer the previous state: no ilug, just linux-il. > > On Sun, 30 Jan 2000, Nadav Har'El wrote: > > > Did you think that maybe most people didn't even bother to send you their > > objections? How many people are on linux-il - 500? (I'm just guessing - it > > would be nice to get an official figure!) How many people wanted a new > > mailing list - 5? > > actually, objecting to the new mailing list is irelevant - it's just like > if you object to a mailing list i mighy open anywhere that has any kind of > purpose. the new mailing list (iglu) has _nothing_ to do with linux-il, > except perhaps for the random fact that some people happen to be reading > both of them - and that's true for any two mailing lists. > > > I think that a new mailing list will only cause more confusion, *much* > > double posting, and having to read both, which is why I don't like the idea. > > That is unless they have *really* different agenda - but in that case you're > > running a big risk that most people will read only one: if you have a mailing > > list with only Linux-activisim, who would want to read it? if you have a > > mailing list specifically for newbies it's nice - but don't expect experienced > > people to join it. > > i'm truly surprised at your attitude, nadav. if you don't want to join a > different mailing list - don't. actually, what you _think_ about who will > join it - does not, and should not matter. those who'll join - will. those > who won't join - won't. i've learned that opposing to new mailing lists > simply does not make sense. > > > > This is IGLU and that's what we hope to make it. Anyone asking about > > > basic kernel compile woes, tcpd and qpopper questions, wu-ftpd config > > > and ipppd, go to IGLU. If you have questions about programming sockets > > > in perl, flying pigs' kernel drivers and hacking on Fribidi GtK widgets, > > > linux-il is the place to roam. > > > > I'm sorry - I didn't understand the difference at all (qpopper=IGLU, perl= > > LINUX-IL?), and I'm sure many people won't either - causing a high > > number of crossposts (or worse: some threads will appear only on one > > of the mailing lists). > > it's the attitude that's supposed to be different. the attitude. don't say > you weren't warned... linux-il is a place of lat resort to people who have > technical linux questions. iglu, as ira pointed out, is more for lending a > helping hand to a different type of audiance. by this nature - it does not > need to have a bunch of gurus there. it'll make more sense if people who > have passed the initial edge will join that list, in a true will to help > others take the step they have just completed. if you don't have the time, > will, drive or what-not to join that list - don't do that. > > > > We hope thus to help everyone, and help maintain the flow of mail. I > > > don't know about others here, but some of us don't read mail on saturday > > > (religious reasons, a very romantic weekend with the SO in the snow, or > > > just hate checking the work Email account on weekends), and opening the > > > linux-il folder on sunday to find ~40 messages waiting is kinda > > > frustrating :-) > > > > Splitting the group won't do any good in that respect - someone who wants > > to read both will still get all these messages, and even more, and now will > > have to skim through duplicate messages :) > > what groups is being split? i don't see any group splitting. anybody else > sees such an horrid act commited here? :P~~ > > btw, if you realy know how to set up procmail, can't you filter those > so-called duplicates based on some mail ID? isn't the letter ID of the > original poster kept on messages forwarded out by the mailing list? > > guy > > "For world domination - press 1, > or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy > > > = > To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with > the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command > echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] > -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [iglu] Double posting to iglu and linux-il?
On Sun, 30 Jan 2000, Nadav Har'El wrote: > Did you think that maybe most people didn't even bother to send you their > objections? How many people are on linux-il - 500? (I'm just guessing - it > would be nice to get an official figure!) How many people wanted a new > mailing list - 5? actually, objecting to the new mailing list is irelevant - it's just like if you object to a mailing list i mighy open anywhere that has any kind of purpose. the new mailing list (iglu) has _nothing_ to do with linux-il, except perhaps for the random fact that some people happen to be reading both of them - and that's true for any two mailing lists. > I think that a new mailing list will only cause more confusion, *much* > double posting, and having to read both, which is why I don't like the idea. > That is unless they have *really* different agenda - but in that case you're > running a big risk that most people will read only one: if you have a mailing > list with only Linux-activisim, who would want to read it? if you have a > mailing list specifically for newbies it's nice - but don't expect experienced > people to join it. i'm truly surprised at your attitude, nadav. if you don't want to join a different mailing list - don't. actually, what you _think_ about who will join it - does not, and should not matter. those who'll join - will. those who won't join - won't. i've learned that opposing to new mailing lists simply does not make sense. > > This is IGLU and that's what we hope to make it. Anyone asking about > > basic kernel compile woes, tcpd and qpopper questions, wu-ftpd config > > and ipppd, go to IGLU. If you have questions about programming sockets > > in perl, flying pigs' kernel drivers and hacking on Fribidi GtK widgets, > > linux-il is the place to roam. > > I'm sorry - I didn't understand the difference at all (qpopper=IGLU, perl= > LINUX-IL?), and I'm sure many people won't either - causing a high > number of crossposts (or worse: some threads will appear only on one > of the mailing lists). it's the attitude that's supposed to be different. the attitude. don't say you weren't warned... linux-il is a place of lat resort to people who have technical linux questions. iglu, as ira pointed out, is more for lending a helping hand to a different type of audiance. by this nature - it does not need to have a bunch of gurus there. it'll make more sense if people who have passed the initial edge will join that list, in a true will to help others take the step they have just completed. if you don't have the time, will, drive or what-not to join that list - don't do that. > > We hope thus to help everyone, and help maintain the flow of mail. I > > don't know about others here, but some of us don't read mail on saturday > > (religious reasons, a very romantic weekend with the SO in the snow, or > > just hate checking the work Email account on weekends), and opening the > > linux-il folder on sunday to find ~40 messages waiting is kinda > > frustrating :-) > > Splitting the group won't do any good in that respect - someone who wants > to read both will still get all these messages, and even more, and now will > have to skim through duplicate messages :) what groups is being split? i don't see any group splitting. anybody else sees such an horrid act commited here? :P~~ btw, if you realy know how to set up procmail, can't you filter those so-called duplicates based on some mail ID? isn't the letter ID of the original poster kept on messages forwarded out by the mailing list? guy "For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [iglu] Double posting to iglu and linux-il?
Hi, Nadav Har'El! On Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 08:05:00PM +0200, you wrote the following: > How many people are on linux-il - 500? (I'm just guessing - it would > be nice to get an official figure!) There are 319 people subscribed, excluding the ones marked VACATION (20 of them). -- Alex Shnitman| http://www.debian.org [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] +--- http://alexsh.hectic.netUIN 188956PGP key on web page E1 F2 7B 6C A0 31 80 28 63 B8 02 BA 65 C7 8B BA The ability of the Open Source process to collect and harness the collective IQ of thousands of individuals across the Internet is simply amazing. More importantly, Open Source evangelization scales with the size of the Internet much faster than our own evangelization efforts appear to scale. -- Internal Microsoft memo PGP signature
Re: [iglu] Double posting to iglu and linux-il?
On Sun, Jan 30, 2000, Ira Abramov wrote about "Re: [iglu] Double posting to iglu and linux-il?": > the only double-post in the last 3-4 days was the above question. IGLU > is defining itself as it goes along. Hopefully it is becoming the home > for the LUG activities, activism, active support and newbie (active) > help. linux-il will stay linux-il: the too-generally named list for > professional Linux power-users, sysadmins and programmers, discussing > the least trivial questions without the pro/newbie ratio it "sufferes" > from today. > > This is how I offered it several times in the last week on the list and > so far won the agreemant of the audiance by recieving no objections at > all (nor agreeing voices either, mind you...) Did you think that maybe most people didn't even bother to send you their objections? How many people are on linux-il - 500? (I'm just guessing - it would be nice to get an official figure!) How many people wanted a new mailing list - 5? I think that a new mailing list will only cause more confusion, *much* double posting, and having to read both, which is why I don't like the idea. That is unless they have *really* different agenda - but in that case you're running a big risk that most people will read only one: if you have a mailing list with only Linux-activisim, who would want to read it? if you have a mailing list specifically for newbies it's nice - but don't expect experienced people to join it. > This is IGLU and that's what we hope to make it. Anyone asking about > basic kernel compile woes, tcpd and qpopper questions, wu-ftpd config > and ipppd, go to IGLU. If you have questions about programming sockets > in perl, flying pigs' kernel drivers and hacking on Fribidi GtK widgets, > linux-il is the place to roam. I'm sorry - I didn't understand the difference at all (qpopper=IGLU, perl= LINUX-IL?), and I'm sure many people won't either - causing a high number of crossposts (or worse: some threads will appear only on one of the mailing lists). > We hope thus to help everyone, and help maintain the flow of mail. I > don't know about others here, but some of us don't read mail on saturday > (religious reasons, a very romantic weekend with the SO in the snow, or > just hate checking the work Email account on weekends), and opening the > linux-il folder on sunday to find ~40 messages waiting is kinda > frustrating :-) There are only 2 ways to fix that, as I said previously: 1. procmail, 2. making a newsgroup. When you have procmail, and have a seperate linux-il folder, I couldn't care less if there were 200 messages in linux-il. It's not like the world is going to end if I don't read them all - I just skim through them looking for interesting threads! Splitting the group won't do any good in that respect - someone who wants to read both will still get all these messages, and even more, and now will have to skim through duplicate messages :) -- Nadav Har'El| Sunday, Jan 30 2000, 24 Shevat 5760 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |"God is dead." - Nietzsche; "Nietzsche http://nadav.harel.org.il |is dead" - God = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [iglu] Double posting to iglu and linux-il?
On Sun, 30 Jan 2000, Shaul Karl wrote: > Since receiving double postings is somewhat annoying, are there any guide > lines about double posting to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and [EMAIL PROTECTED]? > > If it was up to me then I would accept such double posts until most of us will > learn by experience when to double post (perhaps not at all) and when to send > a message to one group only. the only double-post in the last 3-4 days was the above question. IGLU is defining itself as it goes along. Hopefully it is becoming the home for the LUG activities, activism, active support and newbie (active) help. linux-il will stay linux-il: the too-generally named list for professional Linux power-users, sysadmins and programmers, discussing the least trivial questions without the pro/newbie ratio it "sufferes" from today. This is how I offered it several times in the last week on the list and so far won the agreemant of the audiance by recieving no objections at all (nor agreeing voices either, mind you...) So now it's once again in the archives, and will appear on the good ol' website (cobwebsite) RSN. This is IGLU and that's what we hope to make it. Anyone asking about basic kernel compile woes, tcpd and qpopper questions, wu-ftpd config and ipppd, go to IGLU. If you have questions about programming sockets in perl, flying pigs' kernel drivers and hacking on Fribidi GtK widgets, linux-il is the place to roam. We hope thus to help everyone, and help maintain the flow of mail. I don't know about others here, but some of us don't read mail on saturday (religious reasons, a very romantic weekend with the SO in the snow, or just hate checking the work Email account on weekends), and opening the linux-il folder on sunday to find ~40 messages waiting is kinda frustrating :-) happy hacking! Ira. -- Ira Abramov ; whois:IA58 ; www.scso.com ; all around Linux enthusiast Be warned that typing \fBkillall \fIname\fP may not have the desired effect on non-Linux systems, especially when done by a privileged user. (From the killall manual page) = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
