Re: Are there any implication of using or supporting Debian now that the Project Leader shared a call for BDS on debian.social ?

2024-03-03 Thread Steve Litt
Dotan Cohen said on Sun, 3 Mar 2024 19:31:12 +0200

>Debian, as an organization, has a public image that reflects the
>sentiments of the people who make up that organization. Those people
>have begun slandering the Jewish state.
>
>Debian is not conscious and can not support or oppose anything. The
>people who compose of the organization are conscious, and have
>declared their stance.

Could you please give some examples of high profile Debian people
posting anti-Israel content?

I don't like the whole Debian organization, but before I add this to my
many reasons for this dislike, I'd like to see evidence.

By the way, whoever wrote the post we're discussing is a total turd.

SteveT

Steve Litt 

Autumn 2023 featured book: Rapid Learning for the 21st Century
http://www.troubleshooters.com/rl21
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Re: Are there any implication of using or supporting Debian now that the Project Leader shared a call for BDS on debian.social ?

2024-03-03 Thread Dotan Cohen
Debian, as an organization, has a public image that reflects the sentiments
of the people who make up that organization. Those people have begun
slandering the Jewish state.

Debian is not conscious and can not support or oppose anything. The people
who compose of the organization are conscious, and have declared their
stance.

On Sun, 3 Mar 2024 at 15:20, Tzafrir Cohen  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Sat, Mar 02, 2024 at 09:21:37PM +0200, borissh1...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > A bit clueless question , but are there any legal implication of using
> > or supporting Debian now that the Debian Project Leader shared a call
> > for BDS  ?
>
> Debian does not support (or oppose, or whatever) BDS.
>
> Some Debian people may support (or oppose or whatever).
>
> --
> mail / xmpp / matrix: tzaf...@cohens.org.il
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Re: Are there any implication of using or supporting Debian now that the Project Leader shared a call for BDS on debian.social ?

2024-03-03 Thread Tzafrir Cohen
Hi,

On Sat, Mar 02, 2024 at 09:21:37PM +0200, borissh1...@gmail.com wrote:
> Hi, 
> 
> A bit clueless question , but are there any legal implication of using 
> or supporting Debian now that the Debian Project Leader shared a call
> for BDS  ?

Debian does not support (or oppose, or whatever) BDS.

Some Debian people may support (or oppose or whatever).

-- 
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Re: Are there any implication of using or supporting Debian now that the Project Leader shared a call for BDS on debian.social ?

2024-03-03 Thread borissh1983
Hi, 

As this question had been asked twice I had uploaded a screenshot 
https://ibb.co/hFcPrvB[1] of that action.

In order to see that on his page one need to scroll a bit down ,  The text 
start with "Israel just bombed a tent city full of #refugees[1] who fled North 
#Gaza[2] for #Rafah[3] on the #IDF[4]'s orders. Horrifying photos show families 
frantically rummaging through the carnage for the limbs of their family 
members. I won't reproduce them here, but they can be found on the bird site 
from @gazanotifications"  and you would need to click on "show more"


The direct link to the message is 
https://pleroma.debian.social/notice/AenLD9Ez2JCrSfrCsK[2] , however it would 
forward you directly to the original writer (highvoltage  shared it but did not 
write it himself).
if you would scroll inside 
https://functional.cafe/@rml/111916398704166807/reblogs[3] you would see  

   highvoltage@pleroma.debian.social
   highvoltage @highvoltage@pleroma.debian.social
   446 Followers
screenshot at https://ibb.co/HrSxsRP[4]

Which show that he shared that message.

On Sunday, 3 March 2024 11:31:02 IST Shachar Shemesh wrote:


I've gone over his feed and have not found any calls for BDS. Do
you have a direct link?






Shachar






On 02/03/2024 21:21,

borissh1...@gmail.com[5] wrote:






Hi, 




A bit clueless question , but are there any legal implication of
using or supporting Debian now that the Debian Project Leader
shared a call for BDS? ? 



The Debian Project Leader (highvoltage) had "repeated" (shared?)
a call for BDS on the debian social site 
(https://pleroma.debian.social/notice/AenLD9Ez2JCrSfrCsK[2])?
that can be seen on his admin account at? 
https://pleroma.debian.social/highvoltage[6]?(one
would need to scroll down to see this message).


?


Legally,
do we have a problem to train developers on using debian ,
provide services that install Debian, ti package a proprietary
code to run on Debian or even just contribute to Debian after
the call by the admin on debian.social ? or because it was not
listed? on https://lists.debian.org/debian-announce/[7]?we
should be safe ?


?


The
site where it was shared is debian.social which had been
described? as "The Debian social team aims to run a few services
under the debian.social domain. Our goal is to create a safe
space for Debian contributors (whether they are project members
or not) to share what they're doing in the project and to
showcase their work, collaborate with others and share
knowledge. If you tick any of those boxes, you may create an
account. Just like planet Debian, it's completely fine for these
platforms to have a personal touch, however, our goal is not to
create any kind of social network per s?. 


"

The debian.social was announced? a while ago 
https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2020/03/msg8.html[8]



It was shared two weeks ago, but I only realized it might be a
problem as a user today.




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[1] https://ibb.co/hFcPrvB
[2] https://pleroma.debian.social/notice/AenLD9Ez2JCrSfrCsK
[3] https://functional.cafe/@rml/111916398704166807/reblogs
[4] https://ibb.co/HrSxsRP
[5] mailto:borissh1...@gmail.com
[6] https://pleroma.debian.social/highvoltage
[7] https://lists.debian.org/debian-announce/
[8] https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2020/03/msg8.html
[9] mailto:linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
[10] mailto:linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il
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Re: Are there any implication of using or supporting Debian now that the Project Leader shared a call for BDS on debian.social ?

2024-03-03 Thread Shachar Shemesh


  
  
I've gone over his feed and have not found any calls for BDS. Do
  you have a direct link?


Shachar


On 02/03/2024 21:21,
  borissh1...@gmail.com wrote:


  
  Hi, 
  
A bit clueless question , but are there any legal implication of
using or supporting Debian now that the Debian Project Leader
shared a call for BDS? ? 

The Debian Project Leader (highvoltage) had "repeated" (shared?)
a call for BDS on the debian social site (https://pleroma.debian.social/notice/AenLD9Ez2JCrSfrCsK)?
that can be seen on his admin account at? https://pleroma.debian.social/highvoltage?(one
would need to scroll down to see this message).
  ?
  Legally,
do we have a problem to train developers on using debian ,
provide services that install Debian, ti package a proprietary
code to run on Debian or even just contribute to Debian after
the call by the admin on debian.social ? or because it was not
listed? on https://lists.debian.org/debian-announce/?we
should be safe ?
  ?
  The
site where it was shared is debian.social which had been
described? as "The Debian social team aims to run a few services
under the debian.social domain. Our goal is to create a safe
space for Debian contributors (whether they are project members
or not) to share what they're doing in the project and to
showcase their work, collaborate with others and share
knowledge. If you tick any of those boxes, you may create an
account. Just like planet Debian, it's completely fine for these
platforms to have a personal touch, however, our goal is not to
create any kind of social network per s?. 
  "
The debian.social was announced? a while ago https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2020/03/msg8.html

It was shared two weeks ago, but I only realized it might be a
problem as a user today.
  
  
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Re: Are there any implication of using or supporting Debian now that the Project Leader shared a call for BDS on debian.social ?

2024-03-03 Thread Marc Volovic (me)
IANAL, but the Israeli law is rather inimical to BDS and its derivates. I am 
not even going to consider what is the drift outside Israel, aince whatever the 
status is now, it will likely change significantly in the coming months (and 
not, I suspect, in Israel's favour).

What the Israeli law do with people making use of products "tainted" with BDS 
opinions, I have no opinion. Given, however, the general Israeli propensity for 
sippenhaft, I would consult with a lawyer before making use of Debian in future 
projects and activities.

3 Mar 2024 10:44:50 borissh1...@gmail.com:

> Hi,
> 
> While it is nice and fun to have a political discussion on how much the 
> debian leader is wrong, and how it hurts FOSS in general.
> 
> I'm asking, if we as people who work with debian or contribute to it would 
> have a problem now in  IL , US or DE.
> 
> I for example train new developers and it guys on Debian, provide services 
> that use debian as the main OS, and even have done some work that 
> auto-package software to run on Debian, given this announcements, it is not 
> clear for me if I'm even it is safe to still do it now.
> 
> On Sunday, 3 March 2024 10:11:06 IST Marc Volovic (me) wrote:
>> i suggest not starting down the route of the "who did more to whom" 
>> measuring. This is a yardstick measurement comoetitio  that Israel will not 
>> win, by any type of measurement.
>> 
>> The "right" response would be a protest for bringing political discourse 
>> into the technical sphere (if this is indeed a technical sphere, something 
>> not certain) or ignoring the rise. Remember the "wrestling in the mud" adage.
> 
>> 
>> 3 Mar 2024 10:03:14 Omer Zak :
>> 
>>> OOPS, my mistake.
>>> In this case, I suggest:
>>> 
>>> 1. Check if any Debian Developers (Israeli or non-Israeli) were killed
>>> by the Hamas on Oct. 7th.
>>> If yes, call for impeachment of Highvoltage on grounds of his betrayal
>>> of some Debian Developers.
>>> 
>>> 2 Call out Highvoltage's ignoring of the atrocities advocated
>>> by Hamas against Israel.
>>> On Sun, 2024-03-03 at 09:49 +0200, Boris Shtrasman wrote:
 The person who shared that post is Highvoltage (the Debian Project
 Leader) , it's posteed on Debian Project Leader page (but originally
 written by someone else).
 
 On Sunday, 3 March 2024 9:45:24 IST Omer Zak wrote:
> I looked around the links and some Debian information.
> I found no indication that the guy has any leadership role in
> Debian.
> He describes himself as "pro-Palestine, pro-Black, pro-Indigenous,
> pro-
> Queer, pro-létarian".
> 
> Seems to me that someone, who is so busy with those identities,
> would
> not have much time for real technical work.
> 
> I believe that the proper course of action is to complain against
> his
> ignoring (if he did ignore - I did not read carefully) the 1200
> Israelis mutilated and murdered by Hamas as well as the Hamas
> Charter,
> and then just ignore him and do not let him affect our Debian
> related
> work.
> 
> --- Omer Zak
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, 2024-03-02 at 21:21 +0200, borissh1...@gmail.com wrote:
>> …
> 
> 
> -- 
> "Prior to capitalism, the way people amassed great wealth was by
> looting, plundering and enslaving their fellow man. Capitalism made
> it
> possible to become wealthy by serving your fellow man." - Walter E.
> Williams
> My own blog is at https://tddpirate.zak.co.il/
> 
> My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone.
> They do not represent the official policy of any organization with
> which I may be affiliated in any way.
> WARNING TO SPAMMERS:  at https://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html
>>> 
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Re: Are there any implication of using or supporting Debian now that the Project Leader shared a call for BDS on debian.social ?

2024-03-03 Thread borissh1983
Hi, 

While it is nice and fun to have a political discussion on how much the debian 
leader is wrong, and how it hurts FOSS in general.

I'm asking, if we as people who work with debian or contribute to it would have 
a problem now in  IL , US or DE.

I for example train new developers and it guys on Debian, provide services that 
use debian as the main OS, and even have done some work that auto-package 
software to run on Debian, given this announcements, it is not clear for me if 
I'm even it is safe to still do it now.

On Sunday, 3 March 2024 10:11:06 IST Marc Volovic (me) wrote:
> i suggest not starting down the route of the "who did more to whom" 
> measuring. This is a yardstick measurement comoetitio  that Israel will not 
> win, by any type of measurement.
> 
> The "right" response would be a protest for bringing political discourse into 
> the technical sphere (if this is indeed a technical sphere, something not 
> certain) or ignoring the rise. Remember the "wrestling in the mud" adage.

> 
> 3 Mar 2024 10:03:14 Omer Zak :
> 
> > OOPS, my mistake.
> > In this case, I suggest:
> > 
> > 1. Check if any Debian Developers (Israeli or non-Israeli) were killed
> > by the Hamas on Oct. 7th.
> > If yes, call for impeachment of Highvoltage on grounds of his betrayal
> > of some Debian Developers.
> > 
> > 2 Call out Highvoltage's ignoring of the atrocities advocated
> > by Hamas against Israel.
> > On Sun, 2024-03-03 at 09:49 +0200, Boris Shtrasman wrote:
> >> The person who shared that post is Highvoltage (the Debian Project
> >> Leader) , it's posteed on Debian Project Leader page (but originally
> >> written by someone else).
> >> 
> >> On Sunday, 3 March 2024 9:45:24 IST Omer Zak wrote:
> >>> I looked around the links and some Debian information.
> >>> I found no indication that the guy has any leadership role in
> >>> Debian.
> >>> He describes himself as "pro-Palestine, pro-Black, pro-Indigenous,
> >>> pro-
> >>> Queer, pro-létarian".
> >>> 
> >>> Seems to me that someone, who is so busy with those identities,
> >>> would
> >>> not have much time for real technical work.
> >>> 
> >>> I believe that the proper course of action is to complain against
> >>> his
> >>> ignoring (if he did ignore - I did not read carefully) the 1200
> >>> Israelis mutilated and murdered by Hamas as well as the Hamas
> >>> Charter,
> >>> and then just ignore him and do not let him affect our Debian
> >>> related
> >>> work.
> >>> 
> >>> --- Omer Zak
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> On Sat, 2024-03-02 at 21:21 +0200, borissh1...@gmail.com wrote:
>  Hi,
>  
>  A bit clueless question , but are there any legal implication of
>  using or supporting Debian now that the Debian Project Leader
>  shared
>  a call for BDS  ?
>  
>  The Debian Project Leader (highvoltage) had "repeated" (shared?)
>  a
>  call for BDS on the debian social site (
>  https://pleroma.debian.social/notice/AenLD9Ez2JCrSfrCsK)  that
>  can be
>  seen on his admin account at  
>  https://pleroma.debian.social/highvoltage (one would need to
>  scroll
>  down to see this message).
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> -- 
> >>> "Prior to capitalism, the way people amassed great wealth was by
> >>> looting, plundering and enslaving their fellow man. Capitalism made
> >>> it
> >>> possible to become wealthy by serving your fellow man." - Walter E.
> >>> Williams
> >>> My own blog is at https://tddpirate.zak.co.il/
> >>> 
> >>> My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone.
> >>> They do not represent the official policy of any organization with
> >>> which I may be affiliated in any way.
> >>> WARNING TO SPAMMERS:  at https://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html
> > 
> > ___
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Re: Are there any implication of using or supporting Debian now that the Project Leader shared a call for BDS on debian.social ?

2024-03-03 Thread Marc Volovic (me)
i suggest not starting down the route of the "who did more to whom" measuring. 
This is a yardstick measurement comoetitio  that Israel will not win, by any 
type of measurement.

The "right" response would be a protest for bringing political discourse into 
the technical sphere (if this is indeed a technical sphere, something not 
certain) or ignoring the rise. Remember the "wrestling in the mud" adage.

m

3 Mar 2024 10:03:14 Omer Zak :

> OOPS, my mistake.
> In this case, I suggest:
> 
> 1. Check if any Debian Developers (Israeli or non-Israeli) were killed
> by the Hamas on Oct. 7th.
> If yes, call for impeachment of Highvoltage on grounds of his betrayal
> of some Debian Developers.
> 
> 2 Call out Highvoltage's ignoring of the atrocities advocated
> by Hamas against Israel.
> 
> 
> On Sun, 2024-03-03 at 09:49 +0200, Boris Shtrasman wrote:
>> The person who shared that post is Highvoltage (the Debian Project
>> Leader) , it's posteed on Debian Project Leader page (but originally
>> written by someone else).
>> 
>> On Sunday, 3 March 2024 9:45:24 IST Omer Zak wrote:
>>> I looked around the links and some Debian information.
>>> I found no indication that the guy has any leadership role in
>>> Debian.
>>> He describes himself as "pro-Palestine, pro-Black, pro-Indigenous,
>>> pro-
>>> Queer, pro-létarian".
>>> 
>>> Seems to me that someone, who is so busy with those identities,
>>> would
>>> not have much time for real technical work.
>>> 
>>> I believe that the proper course of action is to complain against
>>> his
>>> ignoring (if he did ignore - I did not read carefully) the 1200
>>> Israelis mutilated and murdered by Hamas as well as the Hamas
>>> Charter,
>>> and then just ignore him and do not let him affect our Debian
>>> related
>>> work.
>>> 
>>> --- Omer Zak
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Sat, 2024-03-02 at 21:21 +0200, borissh1...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi,
 
 A bit clueless question , but are there any legal implication of
 using or supporting Debian now that the Debian Project Leader
 shared
 a call for BDS  ?
 
 The Debian Project Leader (highvoltage) had "repeated" (shared?)
 a
 call for BDS on the debian social site (
 https://pleroma.debian.social/notice/AenLD9Ez2JCrSfrCsK)  that
 can be
 seen on his admin account at  
 https://pleroma.debian.social/highvoltage (one would need to
 scroll
 down to see this message).
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> "Prior to capitalism, the way people amassed great wealth was by
>>> looting, plundering and enslaving their fellow man. Capitalism made
>>> it
>>> possible to become wealthy by serving your fellow man." - Walter E.
>>> Williams
>>> My own blog is at https://tddpirate.zak.co.il/
>>> 
>>> My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone.
>>> They do not represent the official policy of any organization with
>>> which I may be affiliated in any way.
>>> WARNING TO SPAMMERS:  at https://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html
> 
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Re: Are there any implication of using or supporting Debian now that the Project Leader shared a call for BDS on debian.social ?

2024-03-03 Thread Omer Zak
OOPS, my mistake.
In this case, I suggest:

1. Check if any Debian Developers (Israeli or non-Israeli) were killed
by the Hamas on Oct. 7th.
If yes, call for impeachment of Highvoltage on grounds of his betrayal
of some Debian Developers.

2 Call out Highvoltage's ignoring of the atrocities advocated
by Hamas against Israel.


On Sun, 2024-03-03 at 09:49 +0200, Boris Shtrasman wrote:
> The person who shared that post is Highvoltage (the Debian Project
> Leader) , it's posteed on Debian Project Leader page (but originally
> written by someone else).
> 
> On Sunday, 3 March 2024 9:45:24 IST Omer Zak wrote:
> > I looked around the links and some Debian information.
> > I found no indication that the guy has any leadership role in
> > Debian.
> > He describes himself as "pro-Palestine, pro-Black, pro-Indigenous,
> > pro-
> > Queer, pro-létarian".
> > 
> > Seems to me that someone, who is so busy with those identities,
> > would
> > not have much time for real technical work.
> > 
> > I believe that the proper course of action is to complain against
> > his
> > ignoring (if he did ignore - I did not read carefully) the 1200
> > Israelis mutilated and murdered by Hamas as well as the Hamas
> > Charter,
> > and then just ignore him and do not let him affect our Debian
> > related
> > work.
> > 
> > --- Omer Zak
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Sat, 2024-03-02 at 21:21 +0200, borissh1...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > Hi, 
> > > 
> > > A bit clueless question , but are there any legal implication of
> > > using or supporting Debian now that the Debian Project Leader
> > > shared
> > > a call for BDS  ? 
> > > 
> > > The Debian Project Leader (highvoltage) had "repeated" (shared?)
> > > a
> > > call for BDS on the debian social site ( 
> > > https://pleroma.debian.social/notice/AenLD9Ez2JCrSfrCsK)  that
> > > can be
> > > seen on his admin account at   
> > > https://pleroma.debian.social/highvoltage (one would need to
> > > scroll
> > > down to see this message).
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > "Prior to capitalism, the way people amassed great wealth was by
> > looting, plundering and enslaving their fellow man. Capitalism made
> > it
> > possible to become wealthy by serving your fellow man." - Walter E.
> > Williams
> > My own blog is at https://tddpirate.zak.co.il/
> > 
> > My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone.
> > They do not represent the official policy of any organization with
> > which I may be affiliated in any way.
> > WARNING TO SPAMMERS:  at https://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html

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Re: Are there any implication of using or supporting Debian now that the Project Leader shared a call for BDS on debian.social ?

2024-03-02 Thread Boris Shtrasman
The person who shared that post is Highvoltage (the Debian Project Leader) , 
it's posteed on Debian Project Leader page (but originally written by someone 
else).

On Sunday, 3 March 2024 9:45:24 IST Omer Zak wrote:
> I looked around the links and some Debian information.
> I found no indication that the guy has any leadership role in Debian.
> He describes himself as "pro-Palestine, pro-Black, pro-Indigenous, pro-
> Queer, pro-létarian".
> 
> Seems to me that someone, who is so busy with those identities, would
> not have much time for real technical work.
> 
> I believe that the proper course of action is to complain against his
> ignoring (if he did ignore - I did not read carefully) the 1200
> Israelis mutilated and murdered by Hamas as well as the Hamas Charter,
> and then just ignore him and do not let him affect our Debian related
> work.
> 
> --- Omer Zak
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, 2024-03-02 at 21:21 +0200, borissh1...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Hi, 
> > 
> > A bit clueless question , but are there any legal implication of
> > using or supporting Debian now that the Debian Project Leader shared
> > a call for BDS  ? 
> > 
> > The Debian Project Leader (highvoltage) had "repeated" (shared?) a
> > call for BDS on the debian social site ( 
> > https://pleroma.debian.social/notice/AenLD9Ez2JCrSfrCsK)  that can be
> > seen on his admin account at   
> > https://pleroma.debian.social/highvoltage (one would need to scroll
> > down to see this message).
> 
> 
> -- 
> "Prior to capitalism, the way people amassed great wealth was by
> looting, plundering and enslaving their fellow man. Capitalism made it
> possible to become wealthy by serving your fellow man." - Walter E.
> Williams
> My own blog is at https://tddpirate.zak.co.il/
> 
> My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone.
> They do not represent the official policy of any organization with
> which I may be affiliated in any way.
> WARNING TO SPAMMERS:  at https://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Are there any implication of using or supporting Debian now that the Project Leader shared a call for BDS on debian.social ?

2024-03-02 Thread Omer Zak
I looked around the links and some Debian information.
I found no indication that the guy has any leadership role in Debian.
He describes himself as "pro-Palestine, pro-Black, pro-Indigenous, pro-
Queer, pro-létarian".

Seems to me that someone, who is so busy with those identities, would
not have much time for real technical work.

I believe that the proper course of action is to complain against his
ignoring (if he did ignore - I did not read carefully) the 1200
Israelis mutilated and murdered by Hamas as well as the Hamas Charter,
and then just ignore him and do not let him affect our Debian related
work.

--- Omer Zak



On Sat, 2024-03-02 at 21:21 +0200, borissh1...@gmail.com wrote:
> Hi, 
> 
> A bit clueless question , but are there any legal implication of
> using or supporting Debian now that the Debian Project Leader shared
> a call for BDS  ? 
> 
> The Debian Project Leader (highvoltage) had "repeated" (shared?) a
> call for BDS on the debian social site ( 
> https://pleroma.debian.social/notice/AenLD9Ez2JCrSfrCsK)  that can be
> seen on his admin account at   
> https://pleroma.debian.social/highvoltage (one would need to scroll
> down to see this message).


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