Re: What's inside the evrit reader?
Quoting sara fink, from the post of Sun, 30 May: 2010/5/30 Hetz Ben Hamo het...@gmail.com Hi, Evrit is indeed a Linux device, but it had a very very stritct DRM. I think I heard from someone inside NDS that the DRM is built inside the kernel as a module. Not sure though, just a rumor I heard. I am not sure about drm built in the kernel, but if it's built as a module, what's the problem to do rmmod module-name? Provided that somehow it's possible to get root and shell to the device. Besides, I wouldn't buy a ereader with wifi. Just a reminder, kindle (by amazon) and they deleted automatically from users the book 1984. They can do the same to evrit. this has nothing to do with Wifi, it has to do with the document management software. I played with this a little at the store, it seems to be pretty responsive (at E-ink speed limitations), It does read PDF and a few popular e-reader formats, but I found it still a bit coarׁ•e. and the GUI left me wanting. If anyone knows of a different/cheaper e-reader that does RTL and Hebrew, please let us know. -- Big man on campus Ira Abramov http://ira.abramov.org/email/ ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: What's inside the evrit reader?
Seeing the GPL discussion regarding Orange made me wonder if someone yet has tried to contact the Evrit sellers to make them confirm to the GPL requirements. Btw, their user manual sais qisda es600 in the filename, and looking for this combination turns up the following device and the following spec: http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/261636182/6inch_Ebook_Reader_Device_AUO_SiPix.html It is noteworthy that it is using Qt for its GUI. But since they apparently modified its software (NDS) in Israel, they might have changed that. Regards, Dov On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 10:18, Meir Kriheli m...@mksoft.co.il wrote: On Tuesday 01 June 2010 02:45:14 geoffrey mendelson wrote: On May 31, 2010, at 11:36 PM, Meir Kriheli wrote: Pixel Qi might be the answer, looks promising: http://www.pixelqi.com/ Yes it does. Now all they have to do is find someone to manufacture them. Geoff. Details ... ;-) -- Meir ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: What's inside the evrit reader?
On Tuesday 01 June 2010 02:45:14 geoffrey mendelson wrote: On May 31, 2010, at 11:36 PM, Meir Kriheli wrote: Pixel Qi might be the answer, looks promising: http://www.pixelqi.com/ Yes it does. Now all they have to do is find someone to manufacture them. Geoff. Details ... ;-) -- Meir ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: What's inside the evrit reader?
How about the Nokia N770 Internet Tablet + FBReader as an e-book reader? It runs Linux and is very comfortable, although it's a smaller LCD screen... FBReader has Hebrew support, but I wonder how do I get Hebrew e-books to use on it? .::. Amichai Rotman Registered Linux User#: 201192 [http://counter.li.org/] Registered Ubuntu User #12851 [http://ubuntucounter.geekosophical.net] .::. On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 18:38, sammy ominsky s...@avoidant.org wrote: On 30/05/2010, at 16:54, geoffrey mendelson wrote: As a disabled person, I really like the idea that a library can rent number of digital copies of books, and lend them out over the internet with DRM set to self destruct in 2 weeks. That way someone can check them out and not bother to return them, at the end of two weeks, they can lend them out again. This is an excellent idea. I wonder why nobody's doing it? That's why I used a frowny. I expect they will bomb and Steimatsky will be selling them on close out to get rid of them. They will definately lower the price to get people to buy their overpriced books. At which point the frowny face becomes a smiley. The fact that this device HAS DRM doesn't mean it *REQUIRES* DRM. I have many many ebooks, and a dedicated reader on clearance that reads the books I already have or may get in the future by channels other than the official one, would be a wonderful thing! Currently I read ebooks on my iPhone with Stanza, and it's extremely usable, but not ideal. A trade- or regular paperback sized eink reader would be perfect. Nook... thing that will be missing is Hebrew and I'm sure someone will figure out how to include it. It's running Android, and has already been rooted, so I suspect Hebrew's no problem. As for libraries, Israel suffers because Andrew Carnegie was neither a Jew nor a zionist, though only a librarian from the US is likely to understand the comment. Or Enoch Pratt in Maryland :) --sambo ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: What's inside the evrit reader?
The main trick about the e-books that everyone seems to miss, is the e-ink technology. From my own experience, the e-reader's screen is much more comfortable to the eyes. 2010/5/31 Amichai Rotman amic...@iglu.org.il: How about the Nokia N770 Internet Tablet + FBReader as an e-book reader? It runs Linux and is very comfortable, although it's a smaller LCD screen... FBReader has Hebrew support, but I wonder how do I get Hebrew e-books to use on it? .::. Amichai Rotman Registered Linux User#: 201192 [http://counter.li.org/] Registered Ubuntu User #12851 [http://ubuntucounter.geekosophical.net] .::. On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 18:38, sammy ominsky s...@avoidant.org wrote: On 30/05/2010, at 16:54, geoffrey mendelson wrote: As a disabled person, I really like the idea that a library can rent number of digital copies of books, and lend them out over the internet with DRM set to self destruct in 2 weeks. That way someone can check them out and not bother to return them, at the end of two weeks, they can lend them out again. This is an excellent idea. I wonder why nobody's doing it? That's why I used a frowny. I expect they will bomb and Steimatsky will be selling them on close out to get rid of them. They will definately lower the price to get people to buy their overpriced books. At which point the frowny face becomes a smiley. The fact that this device HAS DRM doesn't mean it *REQUIRES* DRM. I have many many ebooks, and a dedicated reader on clearance that reads the books I already have or may get in the future by channels other than the official one, would be a wonderful thing! Currently I read ebooks on my iPhone with Stanza, and it's extremely usable, but not ideal. A trade- or regular paperback sized eink reader would be perfect. Nook... thing that will be missing is Hebrew and I'm sure someone will figure out how to include it. It's running Android, and has already been rooted, so I suspect Hebrew's no problem. As for libraries, Israel suffers because Andrew Carnegie was neither a Jew nor a zionist, though only a librarian from the US is likely to understand the comment. Or Enoch Pratt in Maryland :) --sambo ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: What's inside the evrit reader?
On May 31, 2010, at 8:47 PM, Elazar Leibovich wrote: The main trick about the e-books that everyone seems to miss, is the e-ink technology. From my own experience, the e-reader's screen is much more comfortable to the eyes. e-ink is realtivley common and cheap. Last fall a US magazine had an e- ink cover. In order for the batteries to last long enough to be of any use, the finished magazines were stored and ship under refrigeration. It is very slow, you can't use them for watching video, and if you are a fast reader, you may find that the change is annoying if you flip pages. How comfortable and LED/LCD screen is depends upon how it i adjusted. Some LED screens are difficult to use or read. The one on my MSI Wind, is fine, even for many hours a day. Geoff. -- geoffrey mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM Jerusalem Israel geoffreymendel...@gmail.com New word I coined 12/13/09, Sub-Wikipedia adj, describing knowledge or understanding, as in he has a sub-wikipedia understanding of the situation. i.e possessing less facts or information than can be found in the Wikipedia. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: What's inside the evrit reader?
I've read *lots* of ebooks on portable devices. I started off on my PalmIIIx, which was a bit of a pain because of the low resolution and the low contrast, continued on my Palm E2, which was great, and now I'm using FBReader on my Nokia N900, which is near perfect. One of the advantages of the latter two devices is that the screen is backlit, which is great when reading in bed. No need to turn on an extra light. The only books that are definitely not comfortable are prebroken texts, e.g. in PDF files. Note that these are often technical texts where you need to do a lot of flipping back and forth, e.g. to look up a definition. And eink is notoriously bad for such use, because of its low refresh rate. See e.g.: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2011938870_kindle24.html Thus I actually have no need for an eink device, but on the other hand nobody is selling Hebrew books that can be read on the N900, nor are they likely to ever do it. I'm also curious how it is to read a whole book on ebook device. Regards, Dov On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 20:47, Elazar Leibovich elaz...@gmail.com wrote: The main trick about the e-books that everyone seems to miss, is the e-ink technology. From my own experience, the e-reader's screen is much more comfortable to the eyes. 2010/5/31 Amichai Rotman amic...@iglu.org.il: How about the Nokia N770 Internet Tablet + FBReader as an e-book reader? It runs Linux and is very comfortable, although it's a smaller LCD screen... FBReader has Hebrew support, but I wonder how do I get Hebrew e-books to use on it? .::. Amichai Rotman Registered Linux User#: 201192 [http://counter.li.org/] Registered Ubuntu User #12851 [http://ubuntucounter.geekosophical.net] .::. On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 18:38, sammy ominsky s...@avoidant.org wrote: On 30/05/2010, at 16:54, geoffrey mendelson wrote: As a disabled person, I really like the idea that a library can rent number of digital copies of books, and lend them out over the internet with DRM set to self destruct in 2 weeks. That way someone can check them out and not bother to return them, at the end of two weeks, they can lend them out again. This is an excellent idea. I wonder why nobody's doing it? That's why I used a frowny. I expect they will bomb and Steimatsky will be selling them on close out to get rid of them. They will definately lower the price to get people to buy their overpriced books. At which point the frowny face becomes a smiley. The fact that this device HAS DRM doesn't mean it *REQUIRES* DRM. I have many many ebooks, and a dedicated reader on clearance that reads the books I already have or may get in the future by channels other than the official one, would be a wonderful thing! Currently I read ebooks on my iPhone with Stanza, and it's extremely usable, but not ideal. A trade- or regular paperback sized eink reader would be perfect. Nook... thing that will be missing is Hebrew and I'm sure someone will figure out how to include it. It's running Android, and has already been rooted, so I suspect Hebrew's no problem. As for libraries, Israel suffers because Andrew Carnegie was neither a Jew nor a zionist, though only a librarian from the US is likely to understand the comment. Or Enoch Pratt in Maryland :) --sambo ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: What's inside the evrit reader?
On Monday 31 May 2010 21:06:36 geoffrey mendelson wrote: On May 31, 2010, at 8:47 PM, Elazar Leibovich wrote: The main trick about the e-books that everyone seems to miss, is the e-ink technology. From my own experience, the e-reader's screen is much more comfortable to the eyes. e-ink is realtivley common and cheap. Last fall a US magazine had an e- ink cover. In order for the batteries to last long enough to be of any use, the finished magazines were stored and ship under refrigeration. It is very slow, you can't use them for watching video, and if you are a fast reader, you may find that the change is annoying if you flip pages. How comfortable and LED/LCD screen is depends upon how it i adjusted. Some LED screens are difficult to use or read. The one on my MSI Wind, is fine, even for many hours a day. Geoff. Pixel Qi might be the answer, looks promising: http://www.pixelqi.com/ Cheers -- Meir ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: What's inside the evrit reader?
On May 31, 2010, at 11:36 PM, Meir Kriheli wrote: Pixel Qi might be the answer, looks promising: http://www.pixelqi.com/ Yes it does. Now all they have to do is find someone to manufacture them. Geoff. -- geoffrey mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM Jerusalem Israel geoffreymendel...@gmail.com New word I coined 12/13/09, Sub-Wikipedia adj, describing knowledge or understanding, as in he has a sub-wikipedia understanding of the situation. i.e possessing less facts or information than can be found in the Wikipedia. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
What's inside the evrit reader?
Does anyone have any idea of what software is running on the new Hebrew e-ink reader evrit? Their web-page does not mention say a word about what platform it is running on, what processor it uses, whether it is firmware upgradable, etc. See: http://www.e-vrit.co.il Regards, Dov ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: What's inside the evrit reader?
It is running Linux: http://www.e-vrit.co.il/content.aspx?cId=7 But it seems they forgot to provide sources for their GPL programs on the web page... Though of course according to the GPL their are other ways they can comply with the license. Dov On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 09:26, Dov Grobgeld dov.grobg...@gmail.com wrote: Does anyone have any idea of what software is running on the new Hebrew e-ink reader evrit? Their web-page does not mention say a word about what platform it is running on, what processor it uses, whether it is firmware upgradable, etc. See: http://www.e-vrit.co.il Regards, Dov ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: What's inside the evrit reader?
On May 30, 2010, at 9:26 AM, Dov Grobgeld wrote: Does anyone have any idea of what software is running on the new Hebrew e-ink reader evrit? Their web-page does not mention say a word about what platform it is running on, what processor it uses, whether it is firmware upgradable, etc. I saw the article in Yediot. I really don't care what is inside, I want to know how much storage it has, if it has a USB port or memory card slot for extra storage, the size and type of the screen and what formats it reads. It's also awfully expensive, more than a Kindle or Nook but less than an iPad. I may have misunderstood the article, but I thought that it cost almost 2,000 NIS when you bought the reader and the bundle of books. Since I have no idea of what books it reads, I was not sure the bundle was needed, or I could just use it to read books I already have, or can download for free. I was going to show my wife the article, but I can wait. I'd like to get one for my birthday, which by that time (the end of the year) it probably will be 250 NIS on closeout at Steimatsky's. :-( Geoff. -- geoffrey mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM Jerusalem Israel geoffreymendel...@gmail.com New word I coined 12/13/09, Sub-Wikipedia adj, describing knowledge or understanding, as in he has a sub-wikipedia understanding of the situation. i.e possessing less facts or information than can be found in the Wikipedia. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: What's inside the evrit reader?
On 30/05/2010, at 09:48, geoffrey mendelson wrote: I may have misunderstood the article, but I thought that it cost almost 2,000 NIS when you bought the reader and the bundle of books. On the website, it's 1,399 and you get a 400 shekel credit toward books (limited time only). Since I have no idea of what books it reads, I was not sure the bundle was needed, or I could just use it to read books I already have, or can download for free. Under English, they have a large selection of public domain works you can legally download off the 'net for free; Defoe, Darwin, Verne, etc. I was going to show my wife the article, but I can wait. I'd like to get one for my birthday, which by that time (the end of the year) it probably will be 250 NIS on closeout at Steimatsky's. :-( That should be a happy face, then, not a sad one. I'd pay 250 for this thing and be happy about it. --sambo ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: What's inside the evrit reader?
On Sun, May 30, 2010, geoffrey mendelson wrote about Re: What's inside the evrit reader?: Since I have no idea of what books it reads, I was not sure the bundle was needed, or I could just use it to read books I already have, or can download for free. What worries me more about what existing books it can read is - what future devices will be able to read the books I buy from them now. Unfortunately, from past experience, the answer is probably *none*. This would have been fine if they treated - and priced - the books they are selling as a rental, as in a library, e.g., read any number of books you want for 300 shekels a year, or read a book for 5 shekels, or whatever. I honestly don't understand why they don't do this! But this is not how they are treating it - the article says the ebooks will cost 50% off the printed book's catalog price - the price that nobody pays anyway. Which usually means at least 44 shekels to read a book once, and not being able to keep it later (when technology changes). When all the printed books I buy come at discount between 30% (through some tlushim I have for Steimatski) up to 70% discount (during one of those 4 for 100 kind of specials), a 50% discount is ridiculous. I'd rather buy the physical book, which I or my children will be able to read again in 10 or 20 years (or, if I want, I can resell or even donate or whatever). Nadav. -- Nadav Har'El| Sunday, May 30 2010, 17 Sivan 5770 n...@math.technion.ac.il |- Phone +972-523-790466, ICQ 13349191 |I don't use drugs, my dreams are http://nadav.harel.org.il |frightening enough. -- M. C. Escher ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: What's inside the evrit reader?
Of course the analogue hole is simpler to utilize for an ebook than for a physical book, as the screen is flat which makes it easier to to photograph. Connect the camera to a lego mindstorms robotic arm pressing the pagedown button, and do OCR on the resulting images and you are all set. :-) I hope the above description does not make me liable for describing a DRM circumventing device (is there such a law in Israel). Just in case, I'd like to clarify that the above description is only applicable for out of copyright books that for some reason are only available in an ebook reader. Cheers, Dov On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 10:39, Nadav Har'El n...@math.technion.ac.il wrote: On Sun, May 30, 2010, geoffrey mendelson wrote about Re: What's inside the evrit reader?: Since I have no idea of what books it reads, I was not sure the bundle was needed, or I could just use it to read books I already have, or can download for free. What worries me more about what existing books it can read is - what future devices will be able to read the books I buy from them now. Unfortunately, from past experience, the answer is probably *none*. This would have been fine if they treated - and priced - the books they are selling as a rental, as in a library, e.g., read any number of books you want for 300 shekels a year, or read a book for 5 shekels, or whatever. I honestly don't understand why they don't do this! But this is not how they are treating it - the article says the ebooks will cost 50% off the printed book's catalog price - the price that nobody pays anyway. Which usually means at least 44 shekels to read a book once, and not being able to keep it later (when technology changes). When all the printed books I buy come at discount between 30% (through some tlushim I have for Steimatski) up to 70% discount (during one of those 4 for 100 kind of specials), a 50% discount is ridiculous. I'd rather buy the physical book, which I or my children will be able to read again in 10 or 20 years (or, if I want, I can resell or even donate or whatever). Nadav. -- Nadav Har'El| Sunday, May 30 2010, 17 Sivan 5770 n...@math.technion.ac.il |- Phone +972-523-790466, ICQ 13349191 |I don't use drugs, my dreams are http://nadav.harel.org.il |frightening enough. -- M. C. Escher ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: What's inside the evrit reader?
On 30 May 2010 09:48, geoffrey mendelson geoffreymendel...@gmail.com wrote: On May 30, 2010, at 9:26 AM, Dov Grobgeld wrote: Does anyone have any idea of what software is running on the new Hebrew e-ink reader evrit? Their web-page does not mention say a word about what platform it is running on, what processor it uses, whether it is firmware upgradable, etc. I saw the article in Yediot. I really don't care what is inside, I want to know how much storage it has, if it has a USB port or memory card slot for extra storage, the size and type of the screen and what formats it reads. It's also awfully expensive, more than a Kindle or Nook but less than an iPad. It's all right there on the page that Dov linked to: כללי * .ממשק מלא בעברית ואנגלית * מסך מגע קפסיטיבי בגודל 6, רזולוציה 600X800 (SVGA). * מסך בטכנולוגיית E-INK הייחודית לקריאה נוחה תצוגת EPD – ELECTROPHORETIC DISPLAY בשיטת AUO+SiPix. * .תצוגת מסך - 16 גווני אפור * זיכרון פנימי: 1.2 GB מכיל כ- 2000 ספרים. * אפשרות לכרטיס זיכרון Micro-SD עד 32 GB. * מעבד בתדר Mhz400. * מערכת הפעלה Linux. * נגן עם רמקול MP3 מובנה. * רשת אלחוטית: 802.11b/g Wi-Fi המאפשרת קישור לחנות הספרים. * סוללה מובנית נטענת14 - 3.7V (1530mAh) ימי המתנה. 10 שעות קריאה. * תמיכה בפורמטים מגוונים: Adobe PDF ,EPUB ,HTML ,PNG ,JPG, MP3. * נורות LED לחיווי מצב מערכת ומצב טעינה. * אפשרות קריאה במצב אופקי + אנכי. חיבורים * חיבור מיקרו USB – חיבור ל–PC. * חריץ לכרטיס זיכרון Micro-SD עד 32 ג'יגה. * חיבור לאזניות או רמקולים חיצוניים (Line Out) – 3.5 ממ. מידות * משקל: 240 גרם * 8.8 ממ - עובי, 12.4 סמ - רוחב, 17 סמ- אורך אחריות * 12 חודשי אחריות עי ניופאן Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: What's inside the evrit reader?
2010/5/30 Dov Grobgeld dov.grobg...@gmail.com: It is running Linux: http://www.e-vrit.co.il/content.aspx?cId=7 But it seems they forgot to provide sources for their GPL programs on the web page... Though of course according to the GPL their are other ways they can comply with the license. Dov Thanks, I think that I just found my next device! I wrote to ask about Linux support, if it works then I may buy three. -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: What's inside the evrit reader?
At 12:18:16 on Sunday Sunday 30 May 2010, Dotan Cohen dotanco...@gmail.com wrote: On 30 May 2010 09:48, geoffrey mendelson geoffreymendel...@gmail.com wrote: On May 30, 2010, at 9:26 AM, Dov Grobgeld wrote: Does anyone have any idea of what software is running on the new Hebrew e-ink reader evrit? Their web-page does not mention say a word about what platform it is running on, what processor it uses, whether it is firmware upgradable, etc. I saw the article in Yediot. I really don't care what is inside, I want to know how much storage it has, if it has a USB port or memory card slot for extra storage, the size and type of the screen and what formats it reads. It's also awfully expensive, more than a Kindle or Nook but less than an iPad. It might be worthwhile to wait until Steimatzky figures out that it is in the book trade, not in the electronic equipment business, and follows Amazon in making available a free (as in lunch) software version that one can use on equipment that one already has. I think they may have failed to think through the need to provide hardware support for malfunctioning gadgets. I'm using the Kimble PC on both desktop and laptom machines (in a WinXP virtual machine -- it will work under Wine as well) and am very happy with it. Bonus surprise: when I buy a book through the desktop machine, it shows up automagically on the laptop as well, complete with the place at which I stopped reading last time. What can be better. In what format does Steimatzky publish its ebooks? Is it something exotic that it is not supported by one of the freebie software readers? -- Stan Goodman Qiryat Tiv'on Israel ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: What's inside the evrit reader?
As far as I understand it is published in epub. Probably in encrypted epub, which is not supported by any free software readers as it needs a proprietary module by Adobe. See: http://www.adobe.com/devnet/digitalpublishing/ But again, it is just a guess that this is what Evrit is using. Dov On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 12:45, Stan Goodman stan.good...@hashkedim.comwrote: At 12:18:16 on Sunday Sunday 30 May 2010, Dotan Cohen dotanco...@gmail.com wrote: On 30 May 2010 09:48, geoffrey mendelson geoffreymendel...@gmail.com wrote: On May 30, 2010, at 9:26 AM, Dov Grobgeld wrote: Does anyone have any idea of what software is running on the new Hebrew e-ink reader evrit? Their web-page does not mention say a word about what platform it is running on, what processor it uses, whether it is firmware upgradable, etc. I saw the article in Yediot. I really don't care what is inside, I want to know how much storage it has, if it has a USB port or memory card slot for extra storage, the size and type of the screen and what formats it reads. It's also awfully expensive, more than a Kindle or Nook but less than an iPad. It might be worthwhile to wait until Steimatzky figures out that it is in the book trade, not in the electronic equipment business, and follows Amazon in making available a free (as in lunch) software version that one can use on equipment that one already has. I think they may have failed to think through the need to provide hardware support for malfunctioning gadgets. I'm using the Kimble PC on both desktop and laptom machines (in a WinXP virtual machine -- it will work under Wine as well) and am very happy with it. Bonus surprise: when I buy a book through the desktop machine, it shows up automagically on the laptop as well, complete with the place at which I stopped reading last time. What can be better. In what format does Steimatzky publish its ebooks? Is it something exotic that it is not supported by one of the freebie software readers? -- Stan Goodman Qiryat Tiv'on Israel ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: What's inside the evrit reader?
Hi, Evrit is indeed a Linux device, but it had a very very stritct DRM. I think I heard from someone inside NDS that the DRM is built inside the kernel as a module. Not sure though, just a rumor I heard. IMHO I wouldn't recommend such a device until the price drops and we'll see some competing products. There are competing products who are IIRC cheaper. The books that Steimatzky will sells are fully DRM protected, you cannot loan to anyone and vice-versa. Hetz 2010/5/30 Stan Goodman stan.good...@hashkedim.com At 12:18:16 on Sunday Sunday 30 May 2010, Dotan Cohen dotanco...@gmail.com wrote: On 30 May 2010 09:48, geoffrey mendelson geoffreymendel...@gmail.com wrote: On May 30, 2010, at 9:26 AM, Dov Grobgeld wrote: Does anyone have any idea of what software is running on the new Hebrew e-ink reader evrit? Their web-page does not mention say a word about what platform it is running on, what processor it uses, whether it is firmware upgradable, etc. I saw the article in Yediot. I really don't care what is inside, I want to know how much storage it has, if it has a USB port or memory card slot for extra storage, the size and type of the screen and what formats it reads. It's also awfully expensive, more than a Kindle or Nook but less than an iPad. It might be worthwhile to wait until Steimatzky figures out that it is in the book trade, not in the electronic equipment business, and follows Amazon in making available a free (as in lunch) software version that one can use on equipment that one already has. I think they may have failed to think through the need to provide hardware support for malfunctioning gadgets. I'm using the Kimble PC on both desktop and laptom machines (in a WinXP virtual machine -- it will work under Wine as well) and am very happy with it. Bonus surprise: when I buy a book through the desktop machine, it shows up automagically on the laptop as well, complete with the place at which I stopped reading last time. What can be better. In what format does Steimatzky publish its ebooks? Is it something exotic that it is not supported by one of the freebie software readers? -- Stan Goodman Qiryat Tiv'on Israel ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il -- my blog (hebrew): http://benhamo.org Skype: heunique MSN: hetz-b...@benhamo.org ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: What's inside the evrit reader?
2010/5/30 Hetz Ben Hamo het...@gmail.com Hi, Evrit is indeed a Linux device, but it had a very very stritct DRM. I think I heard from someone inside NDS that the DRM is built inside the kernel as a module. Not sure though, just a rumor I heard. I am not sure about drm built in the kernel, but if it's built as a module, what's the problem to do rmmod module-name? Provided that somehow it's possible to get root and shell to the device. Besides, I wouldn't buy a ereader with wifi. Just a reminder, kindle (by amazon) and they deleted automatically from users the book 1984. They can do the same to evrit. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: What's inside the evrit reader?
On Sun, May 30, 2010, Hetz Ben Hamo wrote about Re: What's inside the evrit reader?: IMHO I wouldn't recommend such a device until the price drops and we'll see some competing products. There are competing products who are IIRC cheaper. The books that Steimatzky will sells are fully DRM protected, you cannot loan to anyone and vice-versa. All of this would be fine if their business model was that of a library. After all, people don't normally check out books from a library and go to loan (sublet) them to other people, and nobody would care if his rented book has any DRM on it - after all the all point of the eink display is that it will be much more convenient to read a book on it, not on a general-purpose computer. But this is NOT their business-model. While they continue to pretend to be *selling* books for 44 shekels each, while not actually selling you all the normal rights you'd expect - I consider such a device worthless. Even if instead of 1400 shekels it would cost 400 shekels (and it won't, I don't see why everyone here is hoping for its price to significantly drop - they'll just have a new model that costs the same) I've been accumulating books for 35 years now, and CDs for 25 years now, and they are all still usable, for me and my family (and/or anyone I might choose to give them to). If they guarantee that I could do the same with ebooks that I buy from them, I'll agree to buy from them. Otherwise, this is not buying, it's renting, and I want to pay the much lower book-rental prices on the market (last time I checked, this was known as a library, and didn't cost 44 shekels every time you checked out a book.) -- Nadav Har'El| Sunday, May 30 2010, 17 Sivan 5770 n...@math.technion.ac.il |- Phone +972-523-790466, ICQ 13349191 |I considered atheism but there weren't http://nadav.harel.org.il |enough holidays. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: What's inside the evrit reader?
On May 30, 2010, at 4:19 PM, Nadav Har'El wrote: All of this would be fine if their business model was that of a library. After all, people don't normally check out books from a library and go to loan (sublet) them to other people, and nobody would care if his rented book has any DRM on it - after all the all point of the eink display is that it will be much more convenient to read a book on it, not on a general-purpose computer. As a disabled person, I really like the idea that a library can rent number of digital copies of books, and lend them out over the internet with DRM set to self destruct in 2 weeks. That way someone can check them out and not bother to return them, at the end of two weeks, they can lend them out again. This is not exacly new, most bestseller books are rented by libraries, not purchased. This allows them to have several copies of hot book when it comes out, without eating up their investment and clogging the shelves with many copies of a book only one or two people a year read. As for the eInk display being better than an LCD, that's debatable. An ARM based netbook with a 1024x768 LCD will run around 12 hours on a charge of batteries, which is exactly what an iPad does. If you use a slower processor, without custom video decoders on the chip, drop the tough screen, etc, you really could sell them for $200 and get closer to 20 hours of reading time on a charge. This does not sound like a lot compared to eInk, but eInk is black and white or a very limited grayscale only. If you look at the long times between a charge claimed by eInk readers carefully, it shows that they are not very accurate. They are based upon a reading rate that many people don't actually read at. In my case, I would burn through a charge in a day. But this is NOT their business-model. While they continue to pretend to be *selling* books for 44 shekels each, while not actually selling you all the normal rights you'd expect - I consider such a device worthless. Even if instead of 1400 shekels it would cost 400 shekels (and it won't, I don't see why everyone here is hoping for its price to significantly drop - they'll just have a new model that costs the same) That's why I used a frowny. I expect they will bomb and Steimatsky will be selling them on close out to get rid of them. They will definately lower the price to get people to buy their overpriced books. All that really needs to happen is a competing chain convince BN to let them sell the Nook, or Amazon to sell the Kindle. Even without the rights to sell their ebooks, there a lots of books available on the internet. After all, MP3 players here do not suffer from a lack of music. The only thing that will be missing is Hebrew and I'm sure someone will figure out how to include it. If not, it won't matter that much, anyone who uses the internet can read English, and there are enough people here who can who would keep the business going. I've been accumulating books for 35 years now, and CDs for 25 years now, and they are all still usable, for me and my family (and/or anyone I might choose to give them to). If they guarantee that I could do the same with ebooks that I buy from them, I'll agree to buy from them. Otherwise, this is not buying, it's renting, and I want to pay the much lower book- rental prices on the market (last time I checked, this was known as a library, and didn't cost 44 shekels every time you checked out a book.) Although I doubt that I have any of the books I started accumulating 45 years ago, I do have the first CD's I bought in 1985. Actually I do have the books, because they are out of copyright and I have digital copies I downloaded. As for libraries, Israel suffers because Andrew Carnegie was neither a Jew nor a zionist, though only a librarian from the US is likely to understand the comment. It also suffers from the lack of good bookstores, when I made aliyah I found that the local Border's I had left (a very small store, originally considered too small to actually have the Border's name) had more Linux books than the local Steimatsky's had in total. :-( Geoff. -- geoffrey mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM Jerusalem Israel geoffreymendel...@gmail.com New word I coined 12/13/09, Sub-Wikipedia adj, describing knowledge or understanding, as in he has a sub-wikipedia understanding of the situation. i.e possessing less facts or information than can be found in the Wikipedia. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: What's inside the evrit reader?
Nadav Har'El wrote: On Sun, May 30, 2010, Hetz Ben Hamo wrote about Re: What's inside the evrit reader?: IMHO I wouldn't recommend such a device until the price drops and we'll see some competing products. There are competing products who are IIRC cheaper. The books that Steimatzky will sells are fully DRM protected, you cannot loan to anyone and vice-versa. All of this would be fine if their business model was that of a library. After all, people don't normally check out books from a library and go to loan (sublet) them to other people, and nobody would care if his rented book has any DRM on it - after all the all point of the eink display is that it will be much more convenient to read a book on it, not on a general-purpose computer. But this is NOT their business-model. While they continue to pretend to be *selling* books for 44 shekels each, while not actually selling you all the normal rights you'd expect - I consider such a device worthless. Even if instead of 1400 shekels it would cost 400 shekels (and it won't, I don't see why everyone here is hoping for its price to significantly drop - they'll just have a new model that costs the same) I've been accumulating books for 35 years now, and CDs for 25 years now, and they are all still usable, for me and my family (and/or anyone I might choose to give them to). If they guarantee that I could do the same with ebooks that I buy from them, I'll agree to buy from them. Otherwise, this is not buying, it's renting, and I want to pay the much lower book-rental prices on the market (last time I checked, this was known as a library, and didn't cost 44 shekels every time you checked out a book.) the world is a-changing. as you know, the industry have not yet managed to completely adapt to the existence of the internet, and electronic media interchange. at times of such changes, you should expect most companies to back off (and so they do), and a few to try to adapt. e-books are an attempt to adapt. it takes a while until business models stabilize around such fundamental changes. neither you nor i know how it will look, eventually. just the way that in the paper-world there were books sales and there were book loans together - they may be several such models that will evolve around the internet. personally, i tend to re-read the same book again and again in a period of much less then 10 years - so for me, a model that allows me to keep the book longer then a week or two (as is the case with libraries today) makes sense. you should note that in the paper library model, books has to be returned fast, because the library couldn't keep unlimited number of copies of each book - all this logistics needed for a paper-library are not relevant to electronic libraries - and imposing such a model on electronic libraries will be artificial. the same thing will happen with the keeping of books long-term. why do you keep a book on your shelf for years after you stopped reading them? because paper-books become out-of-print, and you know that if you won't keep it, - you might not be able to get it again in the future. this is not the situation with e-books - they will not run out of print, and you know you'll be able to get it again in the future. so the real problem you have now, is your ability (or lack of) to loan the book to friends or sell them as used books. note that since they are not used - you should be able to sell them in list-price to anyone (perhaps a little less - because the buyer has to work harder to buy the book from you, then to buy it from an online reseller - until someone will build a used e-books market web site). i don't see exactly how to overcome this, without 'ruining' the industry (with the used-paper-books market, people had an incentive to buy the new book from the publisher rather then the used book, both due to convenience, and because the new book was in a better condition). by the way, i won't be surprised if originally, selling used books was considered illegal ;) look at the parallel market - the proprietary software market - selling used software is deemed illegal according to many software licenses (and the fact it, the software is not sold - only the license to use it). and yet people live with this market for a long time - although very many people break the law daily - which shows the model is not working too well. but then again - radio-tapes and radio-disks in cars were stolen in large percentages for years - and still no one thought the underlying model should be changed :0 --guy ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: What's inside the evrit reader?
On Sun, May 30, 2010, guy keren wrote about Re: What's inside the evrit reader?: just the way that in the paper-world there were books sales and there were book loans together - they may be several such models that will evolve around the internet. I agree, both book selling and book loaning are valid, but ever since the invention of the printing press allowed cheap book reproduction, civilization had several hundreds of years to understand the two business models, and I believe the difference between them is very clear to the consumers - starting with what you can legally do with books you bought vs. rented, and ending with how much you expect to pay on buying vs. renting a book. The invention of the internet doesn't change any of these expectations - it just adds new expectations (e.g., that you can put 2000 books in a tiny device instead of in a room full of shelves). However, since clearly nobody has ever come up with a method of *selling* ebooks, I'd hope they stick to *loaning* ebooks and stop pretending they are actually selling them. By coming up with a method of selling ebooks I mean coming up with a method which guarantees that you can move your book to other devices in the future (this is the complete opposite of e-vrit, whose agreement specifically warns you that you can never move your books to a device from another maker), and guarantees that you can sell/loan/give your book to someone else. personally, i tend to re-read the same book again and again in a period of much less then 10 years - so for me, a model that allows me to keep the book longer then a week or two (as is the case with libraries today) makes sense. So basically you're looking to *buy* the book, but don't care if it tears apart after a few years. This is similar to buying a cheaper book with a cheaper binding and paper in the real world ;-) you should note that in the paper library model, books has to be returned fast, because the library couldn't keep unlimited number of copies of each book - all this logistics needed for a paper-library are not relevant to electronic libraries - and imposing such a model on electronic libraries will be artificial. Everything you're saying just says why an e-library should be even cheaper than a library - not more expensive! Imagine that you had a real-time library, where every time want to pick up some book, instantaneously you can check it out and start reading it. 5 minutes later you can stop reading this book, and check out a different one. At any time you can be holding just one book (which makes sense), but you can switch the book you're holding every 5 minutes, or every 5 weeks. You'll be paying a small monthly fee (like in most libraries). When you stop paying for subscription, you can't read any of the books you previously had access to - you did not buy them. Netflix did something very similar for the movie world, and it is working great for them and their customers. so the real problem you have now, is your ability (or lack of) to loan the book to friends or sell them as used books. note that since they are not used - you should be able to sell them in list-price to anyone (perhaps a little less - because the buyer has to work harder to buy the book from you, then to buy it from an online reseller - until someone will build a used e-books market web site). i don't see exactly how to overcome this, without 'ruining' the industry (with the used-paper-books market, people had an incentive to buy the new book from the publisher rather then the used book, both due to convenience, and because the new book was in a better condition). by the way, i won't be surprised if originally, selling used books was considered illegal ;) If you think this will ruin the industry, then this is yet another reason they should switch to the library model, where this problem doesn't exist. look at the parallel market - the proprietary software market - selling used software is deemed illegal according to many software licenses (and the fact it, the software is not sold - only the license to use it). and yet people live with this market for a long time - although very many people break the law daily - which shows the model is not working too well. but then again - radio-tapes and radio-disks in cars were stolen in large percentages for years - and still no one thought the underlying model should be changed :0 The difference is that only sociopaths, a tiny percentage of the population, ever stole car stereos, while the vast majority of the population have had to, at least once in their life, bend the rules on software copying, music copying, etc., because they are indeed impossible to live with. Everybody I know who ever bought legal software, CDs, DVDs, games, etc., considers to be the owner of this physical media, and wouldn't care if the license say they cannot be resold. -- Nadav Har'El| Sunday, May 30
Re: What's inside the evrit reader?
On May 30, 2010, at 5:16 PM, guy keren wrote: so the real problem you have now, is your ability (or lack of) to loan the book to friends or sell them as used books. note that since they are not used - you should be able to sell them in list- price to anyone (perhaps a little less - because the buyer has to work harder to buy the book from you, then to buy it from an online reseller - until someone will build a used e-books market web site). i don't see exactly how to overcome this, without 'ruining' the industry (with the used-paper-books market, people had an incentive to buy the new book from the publisher rather then the used book, both due to convenience, and because the new book was in a better condition). by the way, i won't be surprised if originally, selling used books was considered illegal ;) Not funny. Books existed for thousands of years, and copyrights only have existed for around 130. Many places did not have copyrights, and some still don't, e.g. Saudi Arabia. The difference between paper books and eBooks, is even with today's technology, it's difficult and expensive to reproduce a book, while you can place an ebook on one of the filesharing sites, e.g. rapidshare, and thousands of people can download it in a day. Books also have the added feature of being a physical thing, which follows the established rules of ownership. As for eBooks, while the next Harry Potter type fiction sensation will be copyright probably into the next century, I don't care. I want an ebook reader for the several gigabytes of electronics (specificaly radio) books that are either out of copyright, or never were that I have, and probably 100 times that if I ever get around to downloading them. As for DRM, IMHO the secret of iTunes was the DRM, which made the music producers happy. At 99 cents each file, no one really cares if they can't give it away or sell it, since the DRM was unobtrusive. You could move it to and from your iPod, to a different iPod or computer, with no trouble. And ITunes had a rescue system. If you lost your entire collection, they could enable a complete download of everything you bought from them. At 40-80 NIS a read, I doubt that many people will buy books. People in the US will pay those prices because that's the cost of a movie ticket and they still go to the movies. Israeli's don't, the local multiplex movie theater closed down and is now a clothing store. :-( Geoff. -- geoffrey mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM Jerusalem Israel geoffreymendel...@gmail.com New word I coined 12/13/09, Sub-Wikipedia adj, describing knowledge or understanding, as in he has a sub-wikipedia understanding of the situation. i.e possessing less facts or information than can be found in the Wikipedia. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: What's inside the evrit reader?
On 30/05/2010, at 16:54, geoffrey mendelson wrote: As a disabled person, I really like the idea that a library can rent number of digital copies of books, and lend them out over the internet with DRM set to self destruct in 2 weeks. That way someone can check them out and not bother to return them, at the end of two weeks, they can lend them out again. This is an excellent idea. I wonder why nobody's doing it? That's why I used a frowny. I expect they will bomb and Steimatsky will be selling them on close out to get rid of them. They will definately lower the price to get people to buy their overpriced books. At which point the frowny face becomes a smiley. The fact that this device HAS DRM doesn't mean it *REQUIRES* DRM. I have many many ebooks, and a dedicated reader on clearance that reads the books I already have or may get in the future by channels other than the official one, would be a wonderful thing! Currently I read ebooks on my iPhone with Stanza, and it's extremely usable, but not ideal. A trade- or regular paperback sized eink reader would be perfect. Nook... thing that will be missing is Hebrew and I'm sure someone will figure out how to include it. It's running Android, and has already been rooted, so I suspect Hebrew's no problem. As for libraries, Israel suffers because Andrew Carnegie was neither a Jew nor a zionist, though only a librarian from the US is likely to understand the comment. Or Enoch Pratt in Maryland :) --sambo ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
