RE: issues with the linux.org.il domain
b. but it's probably fine since the list is pretty adamant about it, seems like the website is not interesting to anyone anymore, other than its maintainers (btw, Chen, kudos on the new skin, I DID notice yesterday) c. once again Ira has made the mistake of caring too much, only to discover he's almost alone at it. I guarantee you this will not happen again. I didn't give up on GNU/Linux, I gave up on Israelis. I have to disagree. 1. Some of us may think that there's no point in discussing the issue in public. Alot of noise can be generated, but the buttom line is that without JBA's cooperation all talks are futile. I was quite happy there wasn't that much noise. 2. I am one of the maintainers of the old and new website. I have to say that I was very very happy by the ammount of help and cooperation I'm getting. Its getting better all the time. In the past 90% of the work was done by Ira and me. Now I'm doing some work on the website, OmerM is arranging the news and doing some maintainance, AlexSh is doing mirrors, Choo helped install the server in Haifa, Shlomif helped with mysql and php and perl, Ilya did maintainance, Ira did lots of maintainance and helped on the domain issues, moshe is doing the lectures, Tzafrir is sending me bug reports, all is great! It is customary for sites to have small group of people who do things and the rest use them, its silly any other way. I feel very good knowing that if something needs to be done - I can find someone to do it. So to conclude: Ira - you are not alone - we are right behind you, all helping out as much as you can. If you need something done - everyone is here to help. and also: Great job IGLU! Things are going great and will get better. Thanks, Chen Shapira. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: issues with the linux.org.il domain
I just did 'whois [EMAIL PROTECTED]' (I know, I should have done it earlier), and it seems that it was last updated on August 13th, and that Ira is listed (as the Zone Contact)! So Ira, what's the problem - what prevents you from making changes to the registration (like changing the DNS)? Or is it that you don't want to do that without JBA agreeing first? -- Nadav Har'El| Monday, Aug 14 2000, 13 Av 5760 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy http://nadav.harel.org.il |every minute of it. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: issues with the linux.org.il domain
On Mon, 14 Aug 2000, Nadav Har'El wrote: These days, domain names are worth money (much like real-estate), and may even be worth more in the future (but who knows, maybe this whole crappy will be dumped in the future). Anyway, I understand why Mr. Ben-Avraham would not want to "give" the *ownership* of the domain name to you, Maddog, or anybody else. makes sense to a limit. Mr. Ben-Avraham does not own the Linux trademark, however if IGLU is not an official legal body, we can't expect to gain proxy rights from Linus Torvalds for the domain either. HOWEVER, I would expect a BASIC amount of decency from Jonathan to let us control the zone, which he won't. after delaying our request to move the IP to the new server, I invoked my rights as the zone contact of the domain (which I am since it was first ordered) and moved the NS records to point at IGLU's server, but he reversed it hence: - I have no control over the zone. - I have no cooperatoin on the whois registry status at ISOC. either one would suffice, but JBA is preventing both from us, and THAT is what I resent. whatever you want to call it). As the real owner, Ben-Avraham would be able to revoke Ira's proxy privilages if he wishes. which he did. If that suggestion doesn't work, then the second best thing is for Ben-Avraham to let Ira's IP (or whomever) act as the nameserver for the linux.org.il. which he also refuses. now you understand my frustrations and the source of my fears. If Ben-Avraham doesn't go for any of these solutions, and doesn't present alternative plans (i.e., he's obviously allowed to open his own "linux.org.il" site with free Linux content, not an ad to his company), then it is perhaps possible for Linus to sue him. But don't bet on it - it sounds like a difficult battle (and IANAL) and I don't see anybody going ahead with it. sadly enough, there are too many indications this is what he is counting on, by avoiding all my direct questions in the matter. that's why I am forced to make this a public issue. Ira, please be aware that such promises are *NEVER* enough. Sometimes people get f***ed over even by their closest friends or family. You'll have to *assure* Ben-Avraham that you won't abuse it, for example by keeping him as the domain owner, and you'll only be the technical contact (which is obviously allowed to make changes to the registration). I am, and he reverses them immediately. I therefore sugested li.org, seeing tat they may be an authority we could trust, and save a few hundred dollars none of us have to spare on building an amuta, writing a charter, hiring a lawyer and accountant, and all so we can freakin' change a zone file for a domain he ORIGINALLY BOUGHT FOR THE GROUP ANYWAY. any way I look at it it doesn't make sense, and if he can't reason we either lose the domain one day, or both sides spend considerable amounts of money on a legal battle. I don't see the latter happening, and the third option is going to the media, which is not a light step to take, ubt JBA has a lot more to lose than us. I don't want to go there, althrough I do think we are in the right here. afterall this entire annoying discussion is about where the NS records point, I could not care LESS what names are in the whois. Ira, again, you must understand him too: An Aumuta is not just a beaurocracy: it is also a legal framework (with a board, overseeer, yes, but an expensive one! etc.) to make sure that no single person attempts to take over the Amuta's assets (in this case, the domain name). Without such an Amuta he can never be sure that if he gives you full ownership of the domain name you won't abuse it sometime in the future. he's abusing it some time in the present. so far 1:0 for our side. Do we have any lawyer, CPA, or something like that in our group? Creating an Amuta is *not* impossible, and many small organizations do it. Why are we not at least trying to do that? (Again, only if we have someone who knows how to go about doing this. I wouldn't even know where to begin). and who will head it and who pays the CPA and lawyer? nobody puts in money for anything here, and nobody leads this group for more than 6 months in a row before burning out. dinner, but also to discuss and consult/play judge on our domain issue here. First, make sure that Ben-Avraham accepts him as an arbitrator... first, try to get ANY useful reaction from him. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: issues with the linux.org.il domain
On Mon, 14 Aug 2000, Ira Abramov wrote: how I was finally forced to bring it to the list. he agreed to change the IP addresses in the zone at the end, but would not explain his POV in Email, in a phonecall, or otherwise. ok kids, so what did we learn today? a. JBA doesn't want to address the issue in public, won't defend his questionable choice of action. b. but it's probably fine since the list is pretty adamant about it, seems like the website is not interesting to anyone anymore, other than its maintainers (btw, Chen, kudos on the new skin, I DID notice yesterday) c. once again Ira has made the mistake of caring too much, only to discover he's almost alone at it. I guarantee you this will not happen again. I didn't give up on GNU/Linux, I gave up on Israelis. Have a nice week, I know I will! :) Ira Abramov, Over and out. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: issues with the linux.org.il domain
Sad but true. Well, i hope that new blood will come soon, but we must keep on going ! Mike Vote for MIKE ! Your men in the Linux CABAL - Original Message - From: "Ira Abramov" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "FLiCK" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 14, 2000 9:52 PM Subject: Re: issues with the linux.org.il domain On Mon, 14 Aug 2000, Ira Abramov wrote: how I was finally forced to bring it to the list. he agreed to change the IP addresses in the zone at the end, but would not explain his POV in Email, in a phonecall, or otherwise. ok kids, so what did we learn today? a. JBA doesn't want to address the issue in public, won't defend his questionable choice of action. b. but it's probably fine since the list is pretty adamant about it, seems like the website is not interesting to anyone anymore, other than its maintainers (btw, Chen, kudos on the new skin, I DID notice yesterday) c. once again Ira has made the mistake of caring too much, only to discover he's almost alone at it. I guarantee you this will not happen again. I didn't give up on GNU/Linux, I gave up on Israelis. Have a nice week, I know I will! :) Ira Abramov, Over and out. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: issues with the linux.org.il domain
On Mon, 14 Aug 2000, Ira Abramov wrote: ok kids, so what did we learn today? a. JBA doesn't want to address the issue in public, won't defend his questionable choice of action. b. but it's probably fine since the list is pretty adamant about it, seems like the website is not interesting to anyone anymore, other than its maintainers (btw, Chen, kudos on the new skin, I DID notice yesterday) I'm sorry Ira, but I have to disagree. There is (IMHO) one very obvious course of action to be taken in such a situation. As a matter of fact I am actually suprised of the maturity oif the list - I would have expected that a great big thread will arise that discusses this issue, beating it's dead corpse on and forth without actually achieving anything and instead it seems that the list as whole understood that mincing words here is not the right solution. I believe that JBA has at least one point where he is right: regardless of what I or any one think of you or any other member of IGLU, it remains just that - an opinion. Since there is no official body of IGLU, JBA has the right to the domain as much as anyone else. The solution is, I think, quite clear. I do think however that this is a time for action and not words, therefor if you'd like to hear more details send me a personal email. If something actually comes out of it, I'll publish it here on the list. c. once again Ira has made the mistake of caring too much, only to discover he's almost alone at it. I guarantee you this will not happen again. Don't depair too soon, there are much worse time on the way ;-) I didn't give up on GNU/Linux, I gave up on Israelis. Giving up is for people who have something to lose. Luckily, I don't have a life ;-) --- Gilad Ben-Yossef [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel: +972-54756701 GP: Is Eris true? Fax: +972-15154756701 M2: Everything is true.HTTP: http://benyossef.com GP: Even false things? GPG: 64C5 8B59 74D5 8FAE F097 M2: Even false things are true. 8DF8 4590 CE75 F444 6178 GP: How can that be? SMS: http://benyossef.com/how.html M2: I don't know man,I didn't do it. IRC: Fidros = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
