Re: RFC: Power states and VIDIOC_STREAMON

[Mauro Carvalho Chehab]

Em Fri, 21 Apr 2017 14:09:37 -0400
Devin Heitmueller  escreveu:

> >> I had always interpreted it such that the STREAMON call just
> >> controlled whether the DMA engine was running, and thus you could do
> >> anything else with the decoder before calling STREAMON other than
> >> actually receiving video buffers.  
> >
> > Indeed there's an ambiguity there, although I always read that
> > the device's logic should keep accepting calls via both DVB
> > and V4L2 APIs until V4L2 streaming ioctls are issued.  
> 
> Yeah, the hybrid use case is clearly something that didn't exist back
> then.  Most of the video decoders I've worked on (e.g. tvp5150,
> saa7115) have the device running all the time and s_stream is only
> used for output control (i.e. enable/disable the ITU-656 output).

Yeah, on most devices, switching is simpler.

> > That's, btw, what happens on older drivers like cx88 and bttv.
> >
> > For example, on bttv, there's this logic:
> >
> > static int bttv_s_fmt_vid_cap(struct file *file, void *priv,
> > struct v4l2_format *f)
> > {
> > int retval;
> > const struct bttv_format *fmt;
> > struct bttv_fh *fh = priv;
> > struct bttv *btv = fh->btv;
> > __s32 width, height;
> > unsigned int width_mask, width_bias;
> > enum v4l2_field field;
> >
> > retval = bttv_switch_type(fh, f->type);
> > if (0 != retval)
> > return retval;
> >
> > The logic there actually happens earlier, at VIDIOC_S_FMT. Although I
> > guess all apps call it before streaming, the problem with the above is
> > that the V4L2 API doesn't actually make it mandatory to call this ioctl
> > before start streaming.
> >
> > I guess that the idea of doing that at STREAMON started when we
> > discussed how to lock hybrid devices via MC. I guess it was suggested
> > by Shuah, who looked on those issues and analyzed what apps used to do.  
> 
> I've got a pile of changes which involve refactoring the power
> management on the au8522, but I have never thoroughly reviewed where
> Shuah ended up with the MC changes and thus it's likely they don't
> take those into account.

We had also a couple of discussions at the media summits with
regards to use MC for hybrid devices and how this was supposed
to work, besides the ML discussions.

> >> My instinct would be to revert the patch in question since it breaks
> >> ABI behavior which has been present for over a decade, but I suspect
> >> such a patch would be rejected since it was Mauro himself who
> >> introduced the change in behavior.  
> >
> > It doesn't matter who committed a patch. If it is wrong, something
> > should be done.
> >
> > However, in the specific case of a change like that, just reverting the
> > patch right now would make it worse, as it will break the resource locks
> > between FM, analog TV and digital TV, causing regressions.
> >
> > Locking it at tuner get status is a bad place, as I guess that would
> > break locking between FM radio and analog TV, as both can read
> > tuner status.  
> 
> For what it's worth, FM radio isn't supported in the au0828/au8522
> driver, so that doesn't need to be a consideration for this particular
> driver unless you're suggesting some changes to the framework common
> to all devices.

Good to know, but as other devices also support FM, we need
to define something that would be compatible with what the other
drivers implement.

> > Maybe one solution would be to lock the resources on either
> > for VIDIOC_S_FMT, VIDIOC_STREAMON or read() (whatever comes first),
> > but we need to check if this won't break switching between analog TV
> > and FM.  
> 
> I could argue that despite the PAL-M changes you made a couple of
> years ago, the device is only ever really used with a single standard
> (NTSC), and thus it's entirely possible that the user may never call
> S_FMT given the default is to capture 720x480 YUY2 and the device is
> already in that mode at initialization. 

Well, even for PAL-M, an application could, in thesis use G_FMT and, if
the format matches, don't send a S_FMT.

I guess that, in practice, all GUI Open source apps will always send 
a S_FMT ioctl (and even non-GUI apps like mplayer).

> Also, IIRC the s_stream()
> subdev callback automatically gets invoked when you do a read(), in
> order to support both MMAP and READ modes.

Yes. That's why we don't need to bother much about read(), but we need
to test if whatever patchset gets applied  it won't break support for it.

> I could suggest that it
> should be locked when you call S_INPUT, but I'm pretty sure that's how
> I had it to begin with.  Likewise even in that case you could still
> hit the issue if the user is trying to use the default input of 0
> (i.e. plug in stick, call S_FREQ, and then poll for lock).

Nothing prevents that we hook it on multiple places. I mean, whatever
gets called first (STREAMON, S_INPUT, S_FMT, REQBUFS) 

Re: RFC: Power states and VIDIOC_STREAMON

[Devin Heitmueller]

>> I had always interpreted it such that the STREAMON call just
>> controlled whether the DMA engine was running, and thus you could do
>> anything else with the decoder before calling STREAMON other than
>> actually receiving video buffers.
>
> Indeed there's an ambiguity there, although I always read that
> the device's logic should keep accepting calls via both DVB
> and V4L2 APIs until V4L2 streaming ioctls are issued.

Yeah, the hybrid use case is clearly something that didn't exist back
then.  Most of the video decoders I've worked on (e.g. tvp5150,
saa7115) have the device running all the time and s_stream is only
used for output control (i.e. enable/disable the ITU-656 output).

> That's, btw, what happens on older drivers like cx88 and bttv.
>
> For example, on bttv, there's this logic:
>
> static int bttv_s_fmt_vid_cap(struct file *file, void *priv,
> struct v4l2_format *f)
> {
> int retval;
> const struct bttv_format *fmt;
> struct bttv_fh *fh = priv;
> struct bttv *btv = fh->btv;
> __s32 width, height;
> unsigned int width_mask, width_bias;
> enum v4l2_field field;
>
> retval = bttv_switch_type(fh, f->type);
> if (0 != retval)
> return retval;
>
> The logic there actually happens earlier, at VIDIOC_S_FMT. Although I
> guess all apps call it before streaming, the problem with the above is
> that the V4L2 API doesn't actually make it mandatory to call this ioctl
> before start streaming.
>
> I guess that the idea of doing that at STREAMON started when we
> discussed how to lock hybrid devices via MC. I guess it was suggested
> by Shuah, who looked on those issues and analyzed what apps used to do.

I've got a pile of changes which involve refactoring the power
management on the au8522, but I have never thoroughly reviewed where
Shuah ended up with the MC changes and thus it's likely they don't
take those into account.

>> My instinct would be to revert the patch in question since it breaks
>> ABI behavior which has been present for over a decade, but I suspect
>> such a patch would be rejected since it was Mauro himself who
>> introduced the change in behavior.
>
> It doesn't matter who committed a patch. If it is wrong, something
> should be done.
>
> However, in the specific case of a change like that, just reverting the
> patch right now would make it worse, as it will break the resource locks
> between FM, analog TV and digital TV, causing regressions.
>
> Locking it at tuner get status is a bad place, as I guess that would
> break locking between FM radio and analog TV, as both can read
> tuner status.

For what it's worth, FM radio isn't supported in the au0828/au8522
driver, so that doesn't need to be a consideration for this particular
driver unless you're suggesting some changes to the framework common
to all devices.

> Maybe one solution would be to lock the resources on either
> for VIDIOC_S_FMT, VIDIOC_STREAMON or read() (whatever comes first),
> but we need to check if this won't break switching between analog TV
> and FM.

I could argue that despite the PAL-M changes you made a couple of
years ago, the device is only ever really used with a single standard
(NTSC), and thus it's entirely possible that the user may never call
S_FMT given the default is to capture 720x480 YUY2 and the device is
already in that mode at initialization.  Also, IIRC the s_stream()
subdev callback automatically gets invoked when you do a read(), in
order to support both MMAP and READ modes.  I could suggest that it
should be locked when you call S_INPUT, but I'm pretty sure that's how
I had it to begin with.  Likewise even in that case you could still
hit the issue if the user is trying to use the default input of 0
(i.e. plug in stick, call S_FREQ, and then poll for lock).

No easy answers here, just trade-offs between how badly you want to
break an API that was created with no consideration for power
management or hybrid devices.

Devin

-- 
Devin J. Heitmueller - Kernel Labs
http://www.kernellabs.com

Re: RFC: Power states and VIDIOC_STREAMON

[Mauro Carvalho Chehab]

Hi Devin,

Em Wed, 19 Apr 2017 15:15:20 -0400
Devin Heitmueller  escreveu:

> Hello all,
> 
> I'm in the process of putting together a bunch of long-standing fixes
> for HVR-950q driver, and I ran into a regression related to the way
> the video decoder is being managed.  Before we dig into the details
> here's the general question:
> 
> Should a user be able to interrogate video decoder properties after
> doing a tune without having first called VIDIOC_STREAMON?
> 
> A long-standing use case is to be able to use a command-line tool like
> v4l2-ctl to set the input, set the standard, issue a tuning request,
> poll for a lock status, and once you see a signal lock then start
> streaming.  This means that prior to starting streaming the tuner,
> analog demodulator, and video decoder are all running even though
> you're not actually receiving video buffers.
> 
> The problem comes down to these two patches:
> 
> https://git.linuxtv.org/media_tree.git/commit/drivers/media/dvb-frontends/au8522_decoder.c?id=38fe3510fa8fb5e75ee3b196e44a7b717d167e5d
> https://git.linuxtv.org/media_tree.git/commit/drivers/media/dvb-frontends/au8522_decoder.c?id=d289cdf022c5bebf09c73097404aa9faf2211381
> 
> Prior to these patches, I would power up the IP blocks for the analog
> demodulator and decoder when the video routing was setup (typically
> when setting the input).  However as a result of these patches
> powering up of those IP blocks is deferred until STREAMON is called.
> Hence if you just set the input and issue a tuning request, and poll
> for lock then you will never see the tuner in a locked state
> regardless of the actual signal state.
> 
> I can appreciate the motivation behind Mauro's change in wanting to
> constrain the window that the analog decoder is powered up to reduce
> the risk of having it powered up at the same time as the digital
> demodulator, but if it breaks long-standing ABI behavior then that
> probably isn't going to work.
> 
> I did take a look at the the VIDIOC_STREAMON docs, which state that
> the "Capture hardware is disabled and no buffers are filled" prior to
> calling STREAMON:
> 
> https://linuxtv.org/downloads/v4l-dvb-apis-new/uapi/v4l/vidioc-streamon.html
> 
> However that language would suggest that even the tuner would be
> powered down prior to calling STREAMON, which we know is almost never
> the case.
> 
> I suspect the ambiguity lies in what is defined by "capture hardware":
> 
> The DMA engine or other mechanism of transferring completed video
> buffers to userland?
> The DMA engine and the video decoder?
> The DMA engine, video decoder, and analog demodulator?
> The DMA engine, video decoder, analog demodulator, and tuner?
> 
> I had always interpreted it such that the STREAMON call just
> controlled whether the DMA engine was running, and thus you could do
> anything else with the decoder before calling STREAMON other than
> actually receiving video buffers.

Indeed there's an ambiguity there, although I always read that
the device's logic should keep accepting calls via both DVB
and V4L2 APIs until V4L2 streaming ioctls are issued.

That's, btw, what happens on older drivers like cx88 and bttv.

For example, on bttv, there's this logic:

static int bttv_s_fmt_vid_cap(struct file *file, void *priv,
struct v4l2_format *f)
{
int retval;
const struct bttv_format *fmt;
struct bttv_fh *fh = priv;
struct bttv *btv = fh->btv;
__s32 width, height;
unsigned int width_mask, width_bias;
enum v4l2_field field;

retval = bttv_switch_type(fh, f->type);
if (0 != retval)
return retval;

The logic there actually happens earlier, at VIDIOC_S_FMT. Although I
guess all apps call it before streaming, the problem with the above is
that the V4L2 API doesn't actually make it mandatory to call this ioctl
before start streaming.

I guess that the idea of doing that at STREAMON started when we 
discussed how to lock hybrid devices via MC. I guess it was suggested
by Shuah, who looked on those issues and analyzed what apps used to do.

> My instinct would be to revert the patch in question since it breaks
> ABI behavior which has been present for over a decade, but I suspect
> such a patch would be rejected since it was Mauro himself who
> introduced the change in behavior.

It doesn't matter who committed a patch. If it is wrong, something
should be done.

However, in the specific case of a change like that, just reverting the
patch right now would make it worse, as it will break the resource locks
between FM, analog TV and digital TV, causing regressions.

Locking it at tuner get status is a bad place, as I guess that would
break locking between FM radio and analog TV, as both can read
tuner status.

Maybe one solution would be to lock the resources on either
for VIDIOC_S_FMT, VIDIOC_STREAMON or read() (whatever comes first),
but we need to check if this won't 

RFC: Power states and VIDIOC_STREAMON

[Devin Heitmueller]

Hello all,

I'm in the process of putting together a bunch of long-standing fixes
for HVR-950q driver, and I ran into a regression related to the way
the video decoder is being managed.  Before we dig into the details
here's the general question:

Should a user be able to interrogate video decoder properties after
doing a tune without having first called VIDIOC_STREAMON?

A long-standing use case is to be able to use a command-line tool like
v4l2-ctl to set the input, set the standard, issue a tuning request,
poll for a lock status, and once you see a signal lock then start
streaming.  This means that prior to starting streaming the tuner,
analog demodulator, and video decoder are all running even though
you're not actually receiving video buffers.

The problem comes down to these two patches:

https://git.linuxtv.org/media_tree.git/commit/drivers/media/dvb-frontends/au8522_decoder.c?id=38fe3510fa8fb5e75ee3b196e44a7b717d167e5d
https://git.linuxtv.org/media_tree.git/commit/drivers/media/dvb-frontends/au8522_decoder.c?id=d289cdf022c5bebf09c73097404aa9faf2211381

Prior to these patches, I would power up the IP blocks for the analog
demodulator and decoder when the video routing was setup (typically
when setting the input).  However as a result of these patches
powering up of those IP blocks is deferred until STREAMON is called.
Hence if you just set the input and issue a tuning request, and poll
for lock then you will never see the tuner in a locked state
regardless of the actual signal state.

I can appreciate the motivation behind Mauro's change in wanting to
constrain the window that the analog decoder is powered up to reduce
the risk of having it powered up at the same time as the digital
demodulator, but if it breaks long-standing ABI behavior then that
probably isn't going to work.

I did take a look at the the VIDIOC_STREAMON docs, which state that
the "Capture hardware is disabled and no buffers are filled" prior to
calling STREAMON:

https://linuxtv.org/downloads/v4l-dvb-apis-new/uapi/v4l/vidioc-streamon.html

However that language would suggest that even the tuner would be
powered down prior to calling STREAMON, which we know is almost never
the case.

I suspect the ambiguity lies in what is defined by "capture hardware":

The DMA engine or other mechanism of transferring completed video
buffers to userland?
The DMA engine and the video decoder?
The DMA engine, video decoder, and analog demodulator?
The DMA engine, video decoder, analog demodulator, and tuner?

I had always interpreted it such that the STREAMON call just
controlled whether the DMA engine was running, and thus you could do
anything else with the decoder before calling STREAMON other than
actually receiving video buffers.

My instinct would be to revert the patch in question since it breaks
ABI behavior which has been present for over a decade, but I suspect
such a patch would be rejected since it was Mauro himself who
introduced the change in behavior.

I look forward to hearing from the V4L2 maintainers with regards to
what the expected ABI behavior should be, at which point I can figure
out how to adjust the driver code to accommodate such behavior (and if
that means I cannot query for a signal lock prior to calling STREAMON,
going back and changing a bunch of userland code which expects such).

Thanks,

Devin

-- 
Devin J. Heitmueller - Kernel Labs
http://www.kernellabs.com