Re: not a linux success story
Yeah and you'd be SEVERELY Fscked off if you had paid good money for your OS too!! Everytime I have a Linux problem I think of the fact that in total dollars I have paid very little in comparison to the MS/Windows equivalents PLUS I can fool with said software if I know how. Cheers Jason Volker Kuhlmann wrote: Last week I downloaded a MS bugpack, 130MB, burnt it on a cd-rw and deleted it from my hd. Then the cd-rw turned out to be faulty. Never mind, I'll just copy the first (ok) 110MB to hd and restart the download, saves me some time and bandwidth. Haha (to both). Insert disk, cp /media/cdrom/file /tmp/file The first 112MB are fine, then it hangs on some dud CD sector(s). All disk I/O dead, not just to the cdrom drive, also to the hd on the same cable as the cdrom, as well as to the hd on a different cable. To be precise, every 10s or so it recovered for 1-2s. Shells were still running, ps was fine, so I thought I just kill the process now and get on with it. No way. kill -9 to the PID of cp didn't even turn it into a zombie. Obviously it's stuck in the IDE driver, and ^C or most (all?) other signals can only be applied at certain times, e.g. when there's actual I/O happening. There's nothing else that could be done - forcefully opening the cdrom tray with a pin is probably not a good idea, other than the cp there was nothing to kill. Probably the cdrom drive is hogging the ide bus as well when there are read difficulties, but that's to be expected to some extend. I stuffed around for a few minutes, but as I didn't know for how long this was going to continue, I thought this is Linux with journalling file systems and hit reset, mumbling something non-complimentory about I/O device drivers which assume no I/O ever goes wrong. Adding insult to injury, after the reboot it turned out that download.microsoft.com doesn't support restarting of http downloads (at least wget -c spat a dummy). And I thought they were outsourced to Akamai and running on Linux. Volker
Re: OpenOffice (not a useful reply to Joshua, sorry)
On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 13:46, you wrote: Ken McAllister wrote: Joshua Collins wrote: Up until now OpenOffice has been fine, the fonts were all fine. But just now I opened it up and it's all gone to a Teletype font (menus, cell entries, etc), all I've done since I last used it was to install XSPIM. How do I fix this? This email is to inform you about the release of version '1.1 RC3' of 'OpenOffice.org' through freshmeat.net. All URLs and other useful information can be found at http://freshmeat.net/projects/openoffice/ Ironically, as per someones suggestion, restarting the PC fixed it. (thanks Chris) --Joshua Collins Happy to be of service :-) Chris
Re: Ximian Desktop 2
Hi Tim. The installer looks like a binary file. I have run it from a shell window (BASH) but I've also run it from Nautilus by double-clicking on its icon. Nautilus Properties calls it Type: binary program and MIME type: application/x-executable-binary. I've tried, from the shell, installer-i386 --help, but all that does is start the installation process. I suspect it ignores any argument on the command line. There does not appear to be any script that tells me where things get installed. (I've looked at some of the packageinfo.xml.gz files, after copying them to a safe folder and gunzipping the copy, and they don't help.) I have now, however, tried installing Ximian's .rpm of gnucash myself and then rerunning installer-i386 from shell. Now it doesn't get hung up at gnucash. It gets hung up with the error Unable to complete RPM transaction: transaction has unmet dependencies: mozilla-1.3.1-0.ximian.4.5 conflicts with j2re 1.4.1_01-0.ximian.4.7. Looks like time to update java, although that may break Moneydance... I'll keep you posted (will probably be back for help shortly!). =Andrew On Wed, 2003-08-20 at 23:16, Tim Wright wrote: I've got a couple of ideas of things to try. I guess last time you just ran the installer program with no arguments? All of my comments assume you're using bash BTW. It shouldn't matter what proxy server you're using because you're doing an install from local media. If you want, try changing the http_proxy bash environment variable and then run the script again. % export http_proxy= (or something else) if the http_proxy variable is stuffing things up then you should see the error message change slightly --- however I doubt it is as the missing file (which appears to contain a URL) doesn't seem to have any proxy info in it. What options can you pass to the installer program? Does it accept --help to find out more? Hmm, which directory exactly contains the gnucash rpm? You could try searching the install-i386 script to find where it's trying to install the rpms, and modify those lines. If you're not a bash guru then send it to me. Hmm, that's assuming that it's a bash script and not a binary file. If you do that then accompany it with the output from: % find /share so I know where all the files are :) Apart from that, I'm out of easy ideas (and, for that matter, hard ones:) Tim k
Spam filter training stuff
Tim Wright writes: so, we had a brief discussion on training spam filters the other day, and about weather you can train a filter on someone else's spam data. I borrowed Chris's spam data, and trained my spam filter (spamoracle) on that. I also trained it on a couple of thousand of my own messages (good ones --- so the filter learns to tell the difference). Happily, all my spam is now being correctly diverted to my spam folder. Guess this means it's OK to use a database of known spams as long as you use lots of your own email for the good examples. Well, it depends on how different your legit mail is from the other person's spam corpus, and how similar the other person's spam corpus is to your spam. For most people in NZ I'd imagine that one person's spam is pretty similar to another person's spam, and that they're both quite different from their normal mail, so I'd imagine it probably will work OK. Increasing your sample size is probably going to give a big pay-off, especially if you don't have a big sample yourself, that will far outweigh the disadvantage from the small disparity between your spam and theirs. For some reason, I get a lot of brazilian spam, which I gather is somewhat unusual, so I'd imagine someone else's all-English spam won't help me much with the stuff in Portugese. And if you get legitimate mail in Portugese and no Brazilian spam, then my spam won't help you much (and may end up with naughty false positives as a result). I'm going to start trying out bayesian filters soon. I have a small concern that they might just turn into Portugese recognizers with my stuff. A.
Re: not a linux success story
On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 18:03:34 +1200 Volker Kuhlmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [busy_scissors_thing] Adding insult to injury, after the reboot it turned out that download.microsoft.com doesn't support restarting of http downloads (at least wget -c spat a dummy). And I thought they were outsourced to Akamai and running on Linux. yes that is weird but more than likely some screwy rule of microcoks. his $NZ00:00.0002(if that) worth peter
Re: Paul Griswald(sp?) just made my night!
Chris Wilkinson wrote: Yes it is true. Some distros have an installation that makes climbing K2 seem like a picnic! A linux distro that is simplified massively just for home use is urgently required to capitalise on the current doubt people must feel about Windows. Or other vendors could follow those such as Dick Smith who are selling PCs with Linux pre-installed. How many home users actually install Windows? Cheers, - Dave http://www.digistar.com/~dmann/
Re: 'make install' as 'root'
Personally, I never run 'make install' as root. If it's in debian testing, I trust it, and apt-get install it. If it isn't, and I'm compiling it from source myself, I often don't know or trust it that much. So what I do is: ./configure --prefix=/opt/package_name/ (Yuri, all the 'prefix' option does is specify where you want it to get installed). Then I do the usual make and make install, but as an unpriviledged user. This way if the install script does anything nasty (or just accidental / poorly designed / unexpected), at least it isn't running as root. Once I'm happy with the installation, I switch to root, and make symlinks in /usr/local/ to all the files in /opt/package_name (with the help of a little perl script, to automate the process). Then I switch back to an unpriviledged user before running the program. This is a good way of keeping track of packages you build from source yourself too, that your package manager doesn't know about. I can look in my /opt directory and see all the 'packages' I've installed easily. Then if I want to get rid of one (without keeping the origional source to do a 'make clean'), I just run another little perl script which goes through /usr/local searching for symlinks pointing to anywhere in a specified /opt/package_name and deleting them (yes, I debugged and tested it thoroughly before letting it loose as root ;-) Then I simply remove the package_name directory in /opt and it's done. A little perl script that claims to help with this is GNU 'stow'. However I found it to be quite broken, especially in the 'removing symlinks' department (in short, it didn't). It seemed to work well enough for 'stowing' (adding) things though, although not all the 'features' seemed to work, the ones I needed did. So I use it for 'stowing', and my own (brute force :) script for 'unstowing'. It may be better / fixed now though, certainly worth having a look at if anyone's interested. Cheers, Gareth
Re: I love this new worm - I tells me who has me on their spam lists:-)
Bear in mind that this virus (I assume you're talking about Sobig) forges the emails as coming from a random person on the infected person's email address list. So the person it appears to come from probably doesn't have the virus, and may not even know you. -Nick Shane Hollis wrote: Hi Guys, I am receiving truckloads of emails from peopel I don't know, mostly with Hotmail or similar accounts. These people are 99% likely to be spammers who have harvested my email address. I now have a hard target to hit to get some spammers removed from the system ... bye bye email accounts. If you are receiving emails like this that may fall into this category may I suggest a course of action - there will be reasons not to do this of course but as they already have your email address .. Send an email similar to the below or if you are 100% certain they are spammers then talk to the ISP involved and dob them in. Just a thought. Shane Hi, I don't know who you are but you sent me an email. I suspect you have the new virus. Please run a virus check and update your virus systems. I am a little concenred you have my email address in your mail address book and I don't know you. Can you please let me know who you are. If I do not get a response within 48 hours I will be forced to place you on my black list for the security of my system. Cheers, Shane
Re: I love this new worm - I tells me who has me on theirspam lists :-)
On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 11:59, Nuck Rout wrote: even a virus checker in the email chain is not gonna stop them using my bandwidth. I got a spam letter from Paradise yesterday saying that they are putting a spam and virus filter in place for the paradise mailboxes. So unwanted emails will get removed before transmission to us. It would be interesting to see how well it works. They say it will start on Sept 8th. -- Sincerely etc., Christopher Sawtell
Re: OT ISP Spam Filters (was: I love this new worm etc)
On Thu, 2003-08-21 at 20:54, Christopher Sawtell wrote: I got a spam letter from Paradise yesterday saying that they are putting a spam and virus filter in place for the paradise mailboxes. So unwanted emails will get removed before transmission to us. TelstraClear have just announced the same. It would be interesting to see how well it works. I wonder how many real emails will be bounced in the process. They say it will start on Sept 8th. About the same for TelstraClear. Free until the end of the year then a charge per mailbox. For my money, spamassassin does such a good that I really don't care what they do so long as they let all my real email through. -- Rob Stockley Manawatu New Zealand An avid user of Linux Visit http://www.linux.org
Re: wget
Timothy Musson wrote: I tend to use my browser to d/load stuff under about 3Mb, then switch to wget for anything bigger. Ken says, Thank you, Tim.
Re: wget
Wget is great for large downloads such as the just released trailer for Matrix Revolutions. The matrix website is kind of overloaded and dropping connections every 30 seconds and that's where wget's auto reconnect comes in very handy... On Thu, 2003-08-21 at 21:31, Ken McAllister wrote: Timothy Musson wrote: I tend to use my browser to d/load stuff under about 3Mb, then switch to wget for anything bigger. Ken says, Thank you, Tim. -- Phill Coxon [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: I love this new worm - I tells me who has me on their spam lists:-)
well why would paradise touch my mail? the only mail that goes to my paradise pop box is from paradise advertising their services. On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 20:54:35+1200 Christopher Sawtell[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 11:59, Nuck Rout wrote: even a virus checker in the email chain is not gonna stop them using my bandwidth. I got a spam letter from Paradise yesterday saying that they are putting a spam and virus filter in place for the paradise mailboxes. So unwanted emails will get removed before transmission to us. It would be interesting to see how well it works. They say it will start on Sept 8th. -- Sincerely etc., Christopher Sawtell
Re: Ximian Desktop 2
On Thu, 2003-08-21 at 18:44, Andrew Packer wrote: (in answer to a message from Tim Wright) (words to the effect that the Ximian Desktop installer now) doesn't get hung up at gnucash. It gets hung up with the error Unable to complete RPM transaction: transaction has unmet dependencies: mozilla-1.3.1-0.ximian.4.5 conflicts with j2re 1.4.1_01-0.ximian.4.7. OK, I downloaded j2re 1.4.1 from Sun and installed it, but still got the same error message from the Ximian Desktop installer. Went to Ximian's Web site and eventually found that I need j2re 1.4.2. Got THAT, installed it and I still get the same error message from Ximian Desktop installer. Supposedly I can enter $ java -version and find out which version (my original 1.3.1, or 1.4.1, or 1.4.2) is running, but $ java -version just gives an error message. So how do I ensure that j2re version 1.4.2 actually runs? =Andrew
Re: I love this new worm - I tells me who has me on their spam lists:-)
Which is why I put the disclaimer about it having some downsides too it. I don't mind the spammers receiving this email personally from me coz the account is likely to be real, except for the fake bits of course. If it was their real account and they spammed me again then I would make their life hellish. Shane Sending any email back to spammers about whatever strikes me as being a bad idea. Volker -- Shane Hollis Notes Unlimited New Zealand Ph: 021 465 547 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Ease of installation
Hi Rowan, I too am a returnee from the Windows world back to Linux. I dabbled in the early 90's but went the MS route because my clients needed the ease you speak of. I am promoting Linux now to clients as it is now at a point that it is ready for them to use. There are differences between home users and busienss users but I will touch on those as I go through. I hope this might give you some help with the issues you speak of. To address a couple of your issues: My first installation attempts were fruitless due to defective discs and then I had email connection problems caused by an unworkable network To see you got through that and got it working is excellent. Great perserverance. As you say these things are common to both MS and Linux. I find my older MS operating systems (O/s's) have the same problem and drivers are a pain in the neck if you are installing new hardwarte on a win 98 machine. Things get worse if you are using NT. Most people don't bother to work through those problems but at least with Linux there is the opportunity to write or get written a driver whereas if Win OS that never happens. Classic example .. i cant use USB for WinNT 4.0 and I never will be able to as it doesn't do USB. Under Linux I wil always be able to upgrade my kernel to include the latest hardware. There are a couple of gripes that really frustrated me earlier and still do. The fact that my scanner is not listed as compatible and I can´t play games as I used to. I too had and have the same problem with scanners and a Z33 Lexmark printer. But by the same token some of my Windows OS also give me the same grief, see above. Like many things with such a wide range of choices now days it is important to check hardware against your OS, be it Win or Linux. Classic example. My friend has a Video capture card and box. Works on Win95 and 98 but from ME and Win2000 onwards it doesn't work. It is now junk for him. Under Linux it will always work. As for games, some will run using Wine ( Civilisation, F117 stealth bomber etc are good examples of old games running under WINE for Linux but not under some MS O/S's. There are many games avaiable for Linux. If you were to post the games you want to play then many here will gladly give you: 1 - The location to get them from legally and possibly free 2: - Some excellent alternatives similar to your game 3. THe site of the server that serves them as a games server. 4. A challange to play against you :-) Linux also comes with at least 40 games on many standard distros. What you face is not a Linux problem. It is the same no matter whether you use a game that wont run on a new versin of Windows, a PS/2 game that wont play on XBox or a brand new game that kills your older machine. At least with Linux the game should always work no matter how new the operating system / kernel. THe other joy is you can have ten year old kernels running along side the latest kernel on the same box, in the same partition, usaing the same data and programmes (give or take) , windows has lots of trouble doing that. As may have already been stated one of the most important things that must be improved (?) with Linux is to make it attractive enough to ´new entrants´ or ´converts´ so they don´t unthinkingly and automatically go to MS. Redhat , for all its detractors, does that. Easier to load than even Win98, more stable, doesn't bug you trying to find drivers (99% of time you have to add all the extra drivers for Win installations) and is free. By that I mean that it must be really easy to use, must look nice Have you seen Ximian desktop? More Win XP than XP, has outlook clone, is fully functional, and adds the beauty of some Mac styling for ease of access. Beat the WinXP expereince hands down for userability and speed. Remember, my business is to make life easy for my customers and this is the Desktop I rate for them to use. My wife and office clerk both used it first time, with no instruction and they have both never used linux before. WinXP had them stuffed with its coimplex nav and start bar system and all those annoying pop up messages all the time. Not to mention that b^$% paper clip. maybe even give some of the programs sensible names - my sister was looking over my mandrake recently and she commented about how many of them had strange names - ¨why do so many of the names have K in front of them ?¨ Strange names appear in Windows too. Take winipcfg, winipcfg, ipcfg ipcconfig. They are all the same programme renamed in different version of windows. then there is winosx.vsd type files. What are they? Linux hides the names if you are using a gui, same as windows .. but Linux makes it easier to use them if you need them and once you under stand the naming system it is easier than Visual Basic calls to kernel32.dll to implement :-) The k prefix means it is a programme designed to run with the KDE
Linux in schools
Folks, With all the MS problems/virus as well as Exchange problems I have been having, I am keen to try a Linux option at our high school. I have RH 9 Web server that performs great, no downtime. I have spoken with our board chair who is also on my side. For workstations and server what OS and Apps should I use? We need 'Office', 'Corel', 'Internet', 'E-mail', 'Publisher'. I want to put a small network together to show the staff. Any suggestions would be great. Cheers Terry Cole Rotorua, New Zealand mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cole.gen.nz http://www.websnz.com
Re: Linux in schools
My suggestion is a Ximian desktop, it has an oulook clone and is very smooth and easy to use. It runs on Redhat and Debian. and other distros. Debian is a distro worth looking into as well as it updates fro free where as redhat you pay for auto updating etc. (And before anyone starts a Gentoo diatribe it is too hard for most schools and businesses to support internally or install themselves sorry but that is a fact of life right now.) Open Office will give you MS Office functionality including Excel, Word, Powerpoint and an HTML gui editor ( but not in the league of FrontPage.) It also lets you read and write office files so you stay compatible with the rest of everyone out there. GIMP for graphics, as good as Photoshop or similar. Publisher harder to replace exactly but the open office version of power point will let you do layouts etc and them you publish as you like. Also Kontour , which is corel like will help with that side of things. Corel - also hard to replace but they may have a linux version. Kontour is corel like and Kivio is the visio replacement. Kugar will allow you to define data sources etc ... similar to MS Query. You can get a Cd that boots from the CD player and means you don't have to load it onto a system to demonstrate. It is called Knoppix and is downloadable. I would be happy to post / courier one up to you if downloading is an issue. I am an ex teacher and supply and support schools with their hardware needs and working through problems. I would be happy to help you work through these issues if you want some guidence or help. HTH, Shane On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 19:46, you wrote: Folks, With all the MS problems/virus as well as Exchange problems I have been having, I am keen to try a Linux option at our high school. I have RH 9 Web server that performs great, no downtime. I have spoken with our board chair who is also on my side. For workstations and server what OS and Apps should I use? We need 'Office', 'Corel', 'Internet', 'E-mail', 'Publisher'. I want to put a small network together to show the staff. Any suggestions would be great. Cheers Terry Cole Rotorua, New Zealand mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cole.gen.nz http://www.websnz.com -- Shane Hollis Notes Unlimited New Zealand Ph: 021 465 547 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Spam filter training stuff
Andrew Tarr wrote: For some reason, I get a lot of brazilian spam, which I gather is somewhat unusual, so I'd imagine someone else's Hmm. I get heaps of russian stuff. I have a rule in kmail that trashes any email with a header specifying a cyrrillic char-set - that seems to fix it. I wonder if they thing I'm russian because of my first name? Yuri (dutch, not russian!)
RE: OT ISP Spam Filters (was: I love this new worm etc)
Isn't that a problem in itself? I'm all for spam reduction, but should the ISP be filtering your mail potentially striking false positives? BTW - is annoys me that they plan on actually _charging_ for this service on certain plans. Brad -Original Message- From: Rob [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, 21 August 2003 9:17 p.m. To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: OT ISP Spam Filters (was: I love this new worm etc) On Thu, 2003-08-21 at 20:54, Christopher Sawtell wrote: I got a spam letter from Paradise yesterday saying that they are putting a spam and virus filter in place for the paradise mailboxes. So unwanted emails will get removed before transmission to us. TelstraClear have just announced the same. It would be interesting to see how well it works. I wonder how many real emails will be bounced in the process. They say it will start on Sept 8th. About the same for TelstraClear. Free until the end of the year then a charge per mailbox. For my money, spamassassin does such a good that I really don't care what they do so long as they let all my real email through. -- Rob Stockley Manawatu New Zealand An avid user of Linux Visit http://www.linux.org
Re: Spam filter training stuff
ok, so you want the dutch spam instead of the russian spam, i'm sure that can be arranged :-) On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 08:56:46 +1200 Yuri de Groot [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Andrew Tarr wrote: For some reason, I get a lot of brazilian spam, which I gather is somewhat unusual, so I'd imagine someone else's Hmm. I get heaps of russian stuff. I have a rule in kmail that trashes any email with a header specifying a cyrrillic char-set - that seems to fix it. I wonder if they thing I'm russian because of my first name? Yuri (dutch, not russian!) -- Nick Rout [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT ISP Spam Filters (was: I love this new worm etc)
Chris, can you post a copy of that letter please so when I phone them to hassle them not to do it to my account I have something to reference. There may be other CLUGers who want to see it as well to do similar things with it. On Thu, 2003-08-21 at 20:54, Christopher Sawtell wrote: I got a spam letter from Paradise yesterday saying that they are putting a spam and virus filter in place for the paradise mailboxes. So unwanted emails will get removed before transmission to us. TelstraClear have just announced the same. Thanks Shane On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 20:59, you wrote: On Thu, 2003-08-21 at 20:54, Christopher Sawtell wrote: I got a spam letter from Paradise yesterday saying that they are putting a spam and virus filter in place for the paradise mailboxes. So unwanted emails will get removed before transmission to us. TelstraClear have just announced the same. -- Shane Hollis Notes Unlimited New Zealand Ph: 021 465 547 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT ISP Spam Filters (was: I love this new worm etc)
Isn't that a problem in itself? I'm all for spam reduction, but should the ISP be filtering your mail potentially striking false positives? BTW - is annoys me that they plan on actually _charging_ for this service on certain plans. Then what do you actually want? If they charge for it, the better - say no and you get what you're asking for in your fist sentence. Btw you need to learn to quote. Volker -- Volker Kuhlmann is possibly list0570 with the domain in header http://volker.dnsalias.net/ Please do not CC list postings to me.
Go Vik!
Friday, 22 August, 2003 http://computerworld.co.nz/webhome.nsf/NL/3A3724B0C2303E5ECC256D8900192423 *Green Party's IT man all for open source* There is a lack of real awareness about what open source is /Vik Olliver, Auckland/ Given the media attention he gets in other areas, it may come as a surprise that Nandor Tanczos is the Green Partys IT spokesperson. But it will come as no surprise that the Greens are big backers of open source software. Using language that the Greens are famous for, Tanczos sees a future that many hard-nosed IT people might applaud. There has to be the government commitment to the philosophy underpinning open source software running through the education system, through government purchasing, and then we start to see a vibrant development of an open source community. That has the potential to restore the feeling that we share this planet. That is the way of the future. Parliament-junkies would know that the MP has recently engaged in debates on government software projects, pointing to the cost-effectiveness, stability and security that open source software can confer. To put it frankly, he feels he often gets the brush-off.
Re: not a linux success story
Yeah and you'd be SEVERELY Fscked off if you had paid good money for your OS too!! Everytime I have a Linux problem I think of the fact You have a problem with someone saying when something as simple as reading a CD brings the whole system down? And I bet you're touting Linux as being ready for the desktop too. Make up your mind (and learn to quote). Volker -- Volker Kuhlmann is possibly list0570 with the domain in header http://volker.dnsalias.net/ Please do not CC list postings to me.
Re: Linux in schools
On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 07:46, you wrote: Folks, With all the MS problems/virus as well as Exchange problems I have been having, I am keen to try a Linux option at our high school. I have RH 9 Web server that performs great, no downtime. I have spoken with our board chair who is also on my side. For workstations and server what OS and Apps should I use? Personally I like the KDE desk running under Linux and the applications which go with it. We need 'Office', Koffice, works pretty well. Kword is the word processor. http://koffice.kde.org/ The other alternative is OpenOfficeOrg, which is a much closer look-alike program to MSOffice, but it is a memory and processor hog of the first water. I won't work in any acceptable way on a processor much slower that a 600 or 700 MHz with _at least_ 128Mbytes RAM. As I'm sure you know MS go to considerable trouble to make interoperability with their products as difficult as possible, if not complety impossible. They have succeeded admirably in so doing, and imho all claims about other programs interoperating with MS products should be taken with a heafty dose of 'caveat emptor' 'Corel', I'm not sure what you mean here. There are a number of Draw programs to choose from. The one in the KDE stable is called Karbon14. I don't need or use a drawing package so cannot comment in depth. You might care to look at:- http://koffice.kde.org/karbon/ 'Internet', Mozilla, and Konqueror are the standards complient browsers for Linux. The latter is much better on slower hardware but Mozilla is more successful at rendering pages which make extensive use of Microsoft's 'extra features'. http://www.mozilla.org/ http://konqueror.kde.org/ The major advantage of Konqueror is that it is fully integrated into the desktop and functions as the file manager. The fish:// protocol is particularly useful to access remote directories and move files about using secure protocols. 'E-mail', I use Kmail. While it may not be the most 'glamourous' gui mail user agent. It is easy to use and does what's I need very well. Full cryptographic features are included. A very valuable present to the world from the German government. Kmail interoperates well with Konqueror. http://kmail.kde.org/ 'Publisher'. Kword is a dual function package which has both Word-Processing and Publishing modes. It works well using the paradigm of FrameMaker. http://koffice.kde.org/kword/ There is also Scribus which works quite well especially for a program which has only just achieved the 1.0 level. The printout is much better than the interactive screen presentation. http://web2.altmuehlnet.de/fschmid There is an interesting review of Scribus at: http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=4064 I want to put a small network together to show the staff. To show off Linux to other staff members the easiest method is to get hold of a Knoppix disc, shove it in a PC's CD drive and reboot. You will be able to demonstrate almost all of the above. For your network server you will also need packages such as:- the Postfix mail transport agent A pop3 or IMAP local mail server The Common Unix Printer System ( CUPS ) A network file system such as NFS or AFS. The Samba program for interoperating with Windows file shareing. etc. etc. Lastly but probably the most important of all is a firewall to keep the nere-do-wells out of your network. IPCop is wholeheartedly recommended. Any suggestions would be great. You might care to have a look at this document I prepared about 6 months ago. http://berty.dyndns.org/KdeApps.pdf It's just over 3 Mbytes, and was prepared using Kword. -- Sincerely etc., Christopher Sawtell
Re: not a linux success story
No Volker, you mistook my post, it was NOT an attack on the quoted post. All I was saying is that, in addition to the frustration experienced at the failures, there would have been sheer anger if your new shiny OS that cost you $200 caused these sorts of problems. I know your penchant for brusque posts but chill out dude. =) Cheers Jason Volker Kuhlmann wrote: Yeah and you'd be SEVERELY Fscked off if you had paid good money for your OS too!! Everytime I have a Linux problem I think of the fact You have a problem with someone saying when something as simple as reading a CD brings the whole system down? And I bet you're touting Linux as being ready for the desktop too. Make up your mind (and learn to quote). Volker
modem prob
Hello Everyone, I am uttam from india and living in CHCH now. On 14 Aug I attended the CLUG meeting at sydenham but i could not meet many ofyou. Lately i realised an anotther problem in my computer that is with the sound (noise) all the time from the speakers and particularly more when loading something. My PC is a DUAL boot(XP and RH Linux 9) Specs: 1.7 GHz, 256 RAM, Internal MODEM is TM-IP5600 from TP-LINK (WWW.TP-LINK.COM) Anyhelp Please? Best Regards uttam
Re: modem prob
uttam wrote: Hello Everyone, I am uttam from india and living in CHCH now. On 14 Aug I attended the CLUG meeting at sydenham but i could not meet many of you. Lately i realised an anotther problem in my computer that is with the sound (noise) all the time from the speakers and particularly more when loading something. My PC is a DUAL boot(XP and RH Linux 9) Specs: 1.7 GHz, 256 RAM, Internal MODEM is TM-IP5600 from TP-LINK (WWW.TP-LINK.COM http://www.TP-LINK.COM) Any help Please? Best Regards uttam Does the modem work, what's the main chip on it?
Re: modem prob
On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 11:20, you wrote: I am uttam from india and living in CHCH now. [ ... ] Internal MODEM is TM-IP5600 from TP-LINK (WWW.TP-LINK.COM) Any help Please? http://www.tp-link.com.cn/chinese/soft/20021114105315.zip -- Sincerely etc., Christopher Sawtell
Exchange server Re: Linux in schools
On Fri, 2003-08-22 at 07:46, Terry Cole wrote: With all the MS problems/virus as well as Exchange problems I have been having.. Others can comment on the rest, but since I have an exchange server here and probably most of the problems you've had, I'll comment here. Exchange is a festering heap of fertilliser. There is no way to move all the existing mail from ES to any other mailserver other than forwarding all email manually. We have made a partial change - I run squirrelmail on the webserver (linux) which is a webmail/imap gateway, and that runs fairly well. Users will loose all the calendaring/schedualling/addressbook components of exchange server too, when you change to something else. But then - its impossible to restore a single email from a tape backup... you have to restore the lot to a scratch machine then forward it to the real server, so I have always told users to save important emails to disk. You might have to bite the bull's horns and change wholesale, loosing the old mail... which is going to be a real turn-off for users.
Re: modem prob
On Fri, 2003-08-22 at 11:20, uttam wrote: Lately i realised an anotther problem in my computer that is with the sound (noise) all the time from the speakers and particularly more when loading something. My PC is a DUAL boot(XP and RH Linux 9) Okay - first question is Does it happen in linux and windows? or just one OS ? If its both, then the problem is hardware... try moving the speakers away from the monitor or any power supplies/transformers. Wall warts are bad for that. If its one OS but not the other, then its probably volumes being set strangely... try xaumix in linux or double click the yellow speaker in the windows system tray. Try muting the line-in channels and microphone channels. Since your subject says modem it could be that the linux modem driver uses your speakers to let you know how the connection is going, whereas windows hides those details from you. See how you go.
Re: Exchange server Re: Linux in schools
Exchange is a festering heap of fertilliser. There is no way to move all the existing mail from ES to any other mailserver other than forwarding all email manually. IBM / Lotus notes have an exchange connector. Lotus notes is also an excellent mail server, runs on Linux, is secure and costs less to administer while offering all the functionality of an exchnge server. I believe that Ximians email product connects to an exchange server. Once you have it in a linux format there whould be an answer to go nowards from there. Users will loose all the calendaring/schedualling/addressbook components of exchange server too, when you change to something else. Once again look at Lotus Notes. Also Ximian allows not only server based shared calandering etc but also peer to peer shared calandering. Lotus does all that and security, scheduling, shared address books, real time servers, room booking functionality etc right out of the box. It also does mobile clients, web clients and the ability to encrypt everything right out of the box. If that is all you want then get the Lotus Notes Mail server Option. It is so good the US Navy, CIA, and 55 million other users use it. Lotus runs on Linux, mac, i386, PC, RS6000, As400, Unix AIx . need I say more? HTH Shane (Lotus) Notes Unlimited New Zelaand
Re: Exchange server Re: Linux in schools
Having used, installed and cofigured exchange quite a bit in the past I can tell you that you are wrong on most counts below. You can create individual PSTs from each user, or configure each computer to maintain a local copy of their mail in order to move email from one server to another, let alone backing it up and restoring it en masse between exchange servers. PSTs can be imported into outlook regardless of the user or their existing email configuration. Moving outlook mail to something else, ie Mozilla, is a little more complicated, but is do-able by passing it into outlook express, then on to netscape / mozilla. Other apps exist for moving mail between other packages without resorting to individual forwarding. Using Backup Exec with the exchange option you can delete / restore individual emails to/from tape. This is probably true for most decent backup packages. From memory the built in backup package in Windows 2000 server will not allow this, but then its not really a 'real' backup package anyway (IMHO)... Exchange is prety misunderstood, and takes a lot of flak. Its not really a bad package if you know how to use it (Something a lot of people say about Linux, too :) My 2c Steve PS: I'm not a Microsoft advocate, but I hate to see people shooting MS down without a full understanding of the product they are attacking. On Fri, 2003-08-22 at 07:46, Terry Cole wrote: With all the MS problems/virus as well as Exchange problems I have been having.. Others can comment on the rest, but since I have an exchange server here and probably most of the problems you've had, I'll comment here. Exchange is a festering heap of fertilliser. There is no way to move all the existing mail from ES to any other mailserver other than forwarding all email manually. We have made a partial change - I run squirrelmail on the webserver (linux) which is a webmail/imap gateway, and that runs fairly well. Users will loose all the calendaring/schedualling/addressbook components of exchange server too, when you change to something else. But then - its impossible to restore a single email from a tape backup... you have to restore the lot to a scratch machine then forward it to the real server, so I have always told users to save important emails to disk. You might have to bite the bull's horns and change wholesale, loosing the old mail... which is going to be a real turn-off for users.
[Fwd: Re: OT ISP Spam Filters (was: I love this new worm etc)]
---BeginMessage--- Shane Hollis wrote: Chris, can you post a copy of that letter please so when I phone them to hassle them not to do it to my account I have something to reference. There may be other CLUGers who want to see it as well to do similar things with it. On Thu, 2003-08-21 at 20:54, Christopher Sawtell wrote: I got a spam letter from Paradise yesterday saying that they are putting a spam and virus filter in place for the paradise mailboxes. So unwanted emails will get removed before transmission to us. TelstraClear have just announced the same. Thanks Shane Can you please correct the time setting on your computer Shane? (your email jumps the Inbox queue) Also, get Chris to mail what you want directly - the problem is unwanted mail (to all of us) after all! Cheers ~ Rik ---End Message---
Backup script
I am attempting to fashion myself a backup script. If I point tar at a directory it tars subdirectories which I don't want. I have come up with a solution which only tars files in the directory and ignores everything else. It works but it a bit of a kludge. Does anyone have a more elegant suggestion? Code below. Script-- #! /bin/bash tar -czvf backup-`date +%a-%d-%m-%y`.tgz \ `find /var/www/html/ -type f -maxdepth 1` echo Done End script- Cheers Ross Drummond
Re: Exchange server Re: Linux in schools
On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 09:15:42 +1200 CF [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 2003-08-22 at 07:46, Terry Cole wrote: With all the MS problems/virus as well as Exchange problems I have been having.. Others can comment on the rest, but since I have an exchange server here and probably most of the problems you've had, I'll comment here. Exchange is a festering heap of fertilliser. There is no way to move all the existing mail from ES to any other mailserver other than forwarding all email manually. talking email here, not other functionality, you can write a script to transfer mails from server a to server b. most scripting languages have hooks to imap, so you write a script to connnect to exchange server via imap, read each mail for each user, and transfer it to that user's account on server b (running any imap server). Not trivial, not impossible. see discussion here: http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/mimap/chapter/index.html the other solution would be a real drag for a situation with a lot of users, but I have done it here for two or three users when migrating from uw iamp to cyrus on different servers. get a client that allows more than one imap account. set up old_account (pointing to imap mail on exchange server) and new_account (to imap account on new open source server). Sit at client computer and drag and drop folder contents from one server to the other. tedious but effective. amazing how much redundant stuff you delete :-). you have to manually create the new folders (although there is discussion on a possibly better way in the oreilly link above). creates a lot of network traffic :-( We have made a partial change - I run squirrelmail on the webserver (linux) which is a webmail/imap gateway, and that runs fairly well. Users will loose all the calendaring/schedualling/addressbook components of exchange server too, when you change to something else. if the situation is clients on outlook/windows and server on !(exchange server) then you can get outlook connector, it costs, but that may be less than the exchange server licence. This solution will allow you to store outlook style conacts and calendars on any imap server with acl support. (cyrus does). http://www.bynari.net/index.php?id=7 But then - its impossible to restore a single email from a tape backup... you have to restore the lot to a scratch machine then forward it to the real server, so I have always told users to save important emails to disk. You might have to bite the bull's horns and change wholesale, loosing the old mail... which is going to be a real turn-off for users. -- Nick Rout [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tripwire, AIDE and firehol
Hi all, after the recent spat of MS virus attacks a mention or two of Linux root kits, I decided to get a little smarter about my online time. Firstly I installed firehol (firehol.sourceforge.net) and set up a simple firewall for my ppp0 line, basically run no services, allow only requested packets. Then to somewhat verify my system I ran a root kit checker - which turned up nothing. NOTE - I have no reason to think I've been hacked, just going through the motions. From what I can tell, this should add a decent layer of protection for a casual dialup user. I am now also considering using Tripwire (www.tripwire.org) or AIDE (http://www.cs.tut.fi/~rammer/aide.html) to ensure that my system is OK. Anyone use either Tripwire or AIDE? Thoughts, best practices, etc? At the moment I'm not overly worried about this as just a dialup box...but at some stage in the future I'll be on a faster connection want to make sure I know what I am doing. Feedback is welcome :) Cheers Brad
RE: Exchange server Re: Linux in schools
I believe that Ximians email product connects to an exchange server. The Ximian Connector for Exchange plugin for Evolution is not free (around US$25 per), but does offer full exchange connectivity via the OWA and WebDav (so these must be turned on at the Exchange end). This will also maintain your public address books and folders, and most of the features available to Outlook users. We have run into the odd problem here (Uni of Canty) with this product when used with clustered Exchange servers where users are unable to view folder contents (a bit annoying, but you can point them at the particular server name they are located on). You can import Outlook PST files into Evolution though, which may be useful. Another option (apart from the Lotus notes plug of course) is using Korganiser from KDE 3.1 or later for calendering as it has a plugin for Exchange via WebDav as well. You can then IMAP via Kmail to Exchange for your e-mail. Unfortunately no public folders or public address books. Mind you, after reading previous posts, it looks like you are actually trying to replace Exchange... Good luck :) Matthew Matthew J. Carr Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] PC Support Consultant Phone: 364 2987 Advisory Services Ext: 7729 University of Canterbury IT Helpdesk - your first point of contact for IT Services Phone: 364 2060 Extn: 6060 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: http://selfservice.it.canterbury.ac.nz The plan was simple, like my brother Phil. But unlike Phil, this plan just might work.
Re: Linux in schools
On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 09:57, you wrote: Forget Gentoo IMHO, unless you are very patient and very skilled. I'm neither, yet I find that Gentoo gives me everything I need from a Linux install. Now that Gentoo has all the popular application programs available in binary form, and the genkernel script to build the kernel for you, the only skill needed is the ability to read and understand the install instructions at:- http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/gentoo-x86-install.xml These instructions are somewhat longwinded, but do explain in excruciating detail what you have to do. Just follow them and you will end up with a Gentoo Linux installed. The patience needed is that required to go and have lunch while the kernel and modules are built for you. Installing or updating a package is as simple as typing/writing:- emerge package-name at a console. I maintain that if you cannot do that then you would not be able to use the package anyway and really should not be let loose anywhere near a computer in the first place. -- Sincerely etc., Christopher Sawtell
Re: Ease of installation
On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 05:13, you wrote: With all the talk about converting users from windows to linux I feel that I should put in my $0.03 worth (more inflation). My first installation attempts were fruitless due to defective discs and then I had email connection problems caused by an unworkable network chipset on my motherboard (amongst other things ). I now have it working OK and am quite happy. Some things are better than windows - my printer works better and now prints in my wifes´ native alphabet and some are worse - installing new programs. There are a couple of gripes that really frustrated me earlier and still do. The fact that my scanner is not listed as compatible and I can´t play games as I used to. I acknowledge that commercial secrecy is important to the manufacturers and they want to keep them to themselves. I think that I will just wait until Mandrake 9.2 comes out, wipe the bootleg XP pro and install win98 to play games and use my scanner. Another irritation for me ( being an ex-windows person ) as I said above is how difficult I find it is to load new programs As may have already been stated one of the most important things that must be improved (?) with Linux is to make it attractive enough to ´new entrants´ or ´converts´ so they don´t unthinkingly and automatically go to MS. By that I mean that it must be really easy to use, must look nice and maybe even give some of the programs sensible names - my sister was looking over my mandrake recently and she commented about how many of them had strange names - ¨why do so many of the names have K in front of them ?¨ I realise that what I am saying has already been said (maybe) but what point is the list if people don´t use it. Rounding off the rough corners and polishing the details is the main thing that the linux distros must do to get more into the office and home PC. Rowan Hi Rowan as a fairlyrecent convert to Linux (about 12 months+) I can certainly concur with most of your comments Don't get me wrong I really like Linux, so much so that I only reboot to the dreaded Windows98SE now when I really have too I have found that the more I use Linux the more I like it, however it is not for the faint hearted and for many new/inexperienced/infrequent computer users (like my dear old mum) it is probably not worth the effort. However Shanes comments are really valid (and informative) and I will follow them up to improve my installation and knowledge The bottom line is that like and old worn out jumper windows is familiar and comfortable to a great many people and likely to be for a long time to come. Given the amount of $$$ MS has had for marketing etc that is not surprising. Shane is dead right about the ability to upgrade etc. with Linux and as an example when I started using MDK 8.1 my modem/Mustek scanner etc. wasn't a happening thing, after I upgraded to MDK 9.1 it was fully supported. Conversely all I have ever had from MS is a few crappy bug fixes/security updates and a few virus attacks etc Currently i am having a few issues with printing with my new Cannon printer - one thing I have learnt since is check with the CLUG users before you buy any new hardware (ie. support the manufacturers that support open-source) Linux is the way to go for plenty of users including myself but currently it is not going to be the right choice for everyone, I'm sure that some users will disagree but thats my 2.5 cents worth cheersdave Reply to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] KMail on Davesmachine Linux Mandrake release 9.1 (Bamboo) for i586 Kernel 2.4.21-0.13mdk i686 / tty4
Re: Tripwire, AIDE and firehol
Tripwire is good, a bit of a pain to start with, but once you get it all sorted, it's sweet. I have a Tripwire scan that runs everynight and emails me the result. I too have no reason to suspect I've been hacked, but I like to know whenever anything changes. Also don't forget about Snort. I haven't looked into it much, still on the todo list, but looks impressive [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Anyone use either Tripwire or AIDE? Aide doesn't seem to have been maintained in some 2 years or so. It tends to segfault in some situations, I think it's when it can't open a file for checksumming, or when there's an I/O error on one file. It could do with some obvious improvements to its user interface. The config file methodology is ok. tripwire 2 is open source and on sourceforge, I have 2.3.1 here. The commercial version is not open source, is up to version 4, and doesn't support Linux. Does anyone know of any better IDS programs than the above? Volker -- Volker Kuhlmannis possibly list0570 with the domain in header http://volker.dnsalias.net/Please do not CC list postings to me. - Hamish McBrearty MCSE MCSA Network Engineer Rangi Ruru Girls' School 59 Hewitts Road Christchurch NEW ZEALAND Ph 03 355-6099 Fax 03 355-6027 CELL 021 999770 E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Link to this email from CLUG homepage
Hay, this is a really good answer. Any chance we can put it on the CLUG home page (with the other two that are there?) --- who does this? I've forgotten, but have ccd it to the right address (hopefully). Tim W On Fri, 22 Aug 2003, Sascha Beaumont wrote: Basically you've got the choice of two camps, you can go the KDE way or the Gnome2 way. Seeing as how you're already using RH9, and presumably familiar with its configuration tools - stick with it. I've heard mixed things about RedHat, personally I'm a Debian fan. Rather that simply setting up one or two boxes to show the staff, have a variety of setups on a few computers and let them have a play. Have some open documents, etc. Have a machine running KDE, a machine running Gnome, and their respective office suites. Another with OpenOffice. Maybe something with wine (pref. cxoffice version), running Office97 for show. What I would recommend is don't try to get the whole school to change, see if you can get half a computer lab done with slightly different setups. And let the choice of the students, and staff, speak for itself. Or, looking at things in a longer term, dint worry about the front end desktops, get your servers unhitched from the applications that are holding you back. Ximian Connector ( http://www.ximian.com/products/connector/) will help with linux exchange compatibility. Get OpenOffice installed on the Windows machines, start subtle. Ditch Internet Explorer and install mozilla. Then when you finally move people over, they're simple like 'whee the login screen looks new'. Sascha On Fri, 2003-08-22 at 07:46, Terry Cole wrote: Folks, With all the MS problems/virus as well as Exchange problems I have been having, I am keen to try a Linux option at our high school. I have RH 9 Web server that performs great, no downtime. I have spoken with our board chair who is also on my side. For workstations and server what OS and Apps should I use? We need 'Office', 'Corel', 'Internet', 'E-mail', 'Publisher'. I want to put a small network together to show the staff. Any suggestions would be great. Cheers Terry Cole Rotorua, New Zealand mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cole.gen.nz http://www.websnz.com -- Sascha Beaumont [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tim Wright Assistant Lecturer Department of Computer Science University of Canterbury Language, like terrorism, targets civilians and generates fear to effect political change. -- Collateral Language John Collins and Ross Glover ed.
Re: Linux in schools
Christopher Sawtell wrote: On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 09:57, you wrote: Forget Gentoo IMHO, unless you are very patient and very skilled. I'm neither, yet I find that... C'mon Chris. You *taught* Linux at a local tertiary institution. That requires large amounts of both skill *and* patience. Probably more patience. Cheers, Carl.
RE: Exchange server Re: Linux in schools
There is a tool called emerge that can export all mail boxes from an Exchange server to a PST. I used it about a year ago to migrate mail boxes from one Exchange server to another. I have a love hate relationship with Exchange, as a POP3/IMAP/SMTP server it is the pox! For collaboration it is the best I have seen bang for buck. -Original Message- From: CF [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 22 August 2003 12:49 p.m. To: Linux Users Group Subject: Re: Exchange server Re: Linux in schools On Fri, 2003-08-22 at 12:15, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Having used, installed and cofigured exchange quite a bit in the past I can tell you that you are wrong on most counts below. :-) I take it you've done this in a business setting. You can create individual PSTs from each user Not for 1400 users I won't , or configure each computer to maintain a local copy of their mail in order to move email from one server to another, Only about 12 staff have their own computer - the rest are all shared. So the old business idea of One Person One Computer just does not work. let alone backing it up and restoring it en masse between exchange servers. PSTs can be imported into outlook regardless of the user or their existing email configuration. Outlook on P75s with 32 Mb ram? That would be like expecting Jamie Olliver to make a cullinary masterpiece using a Macdonalds kitchen. Moving outlook mail to something else, ie Mozilla, is a little more complicated, but is do-able by passing it into outlook express, then on to netscape / mozilla. Other apps exist for moving mail between other packages without resorting to individual forwarding. I think the question originally was more like how do I move EVERYTHING to some other mailserver Putting mail into a specific mail-reader application is not the end result required. Using Backup Exec with the exchange option you can delete / restore individual emails to/from tape. This is probably true for most decent backup packages. Yes - but schools don't have much money and decent backup packages cost a lot. We're still using NT4 server cos its too much to change to anything else. Indeed - my four linux boxes are backed up using home-grown scripts. From memory the built in backup package in Windows 2000 server will not allow this, but then its not really a 'real' backup package anyway (IMHO)... See above - 2000 is far newer than anything running here. Exchange is prety misunderstood, and takes a lot of flak. Its not really a bad package if you know how to use it (Something a lot of people say about Linux, too :) I retract my statement earlier about festering.. How about simply totally unsuitable for schools ? PS: I'm not a Microsoft advocate, but I hate to see people shooting MS down without a full understanding of the product they are attacking. I've never had any training on how to use exchange server - its too expensive. Do you see the problem? At least with an imap server running on a linux box I can ask google for help, and not come across the hire an MSCE stuff. On Fri, 2003-08-22 at 07:46, Terry Cole wrote: With all the MS problems/virus as well as Exchange problems I have been having.. Others can comment on the rest, but since I have an exchange server here and probably most of the problems you've had, I'll comment here. Exchange is a festering heap of fertilliser. There is no way to move all the existing mail from ES to any other mailserver other than forwarding all email manually. We have made a partial change - I run squirrelmail on the webserver (linux) which is a webmail/imap gateway, and that runs fairly well. Users will loose all the calendaring/schedualling/addressbook components of exchange server too, when you change to something else. But then - its impossible to restore a single email from a tape backup... you have to restore the lot to a scratch machine then forward it to the real server, so I have always told users to save important emails to disk. You might have to bite the bull's horns and change wholesale, loosing the old mail... which is going to be a real turn-off for users.
Re: Linux in schools
Christopher Sawtell wrote: On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 09:57, you wrote: Forget Gentoo IMHO, unless you are very patient and very skilled. I'm neither, LMAO!! Thanks Chris...that made my day. =) yet I find that Gentoo gives me everything I need from a Linux install. Now that Gentoo has all the popular application programs available in binary form, and the genkernel script to build the kernel for you, the only skill needed is the ability to read and understand the install instructions at:- http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/gentoo-x86-install.xml
RE: Exchange server Re: Linux in schools
I retract my statement earlier about festering.. How about simply totally unsuitable for schools ? Please, elaborate. I've never had any training on how to use exchange server - its too expensive. Do you see the problem? At least with an imap server running on a linux box I can ask google for help, and not come across the hire an MSCE stuff. Odd, considering their next Exchange course in Christchurch is FREE. - Marc Archbold The information contained in this email is privileged and confidential and intended for the addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, you are asked to respect that confidentiality and not disclose, copy or make use of its contents. If received in error you are asked to destroy this email and contact the sender immediately. Your assistance is appreciated.
Re: Linux in schools
On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 14:48, you wrote: taught? ...as in doesnt do this any more? As in at that particular intsitution, yes; in general no. I'm going to display my skill-set to a small class of postulant devotees at the OSTC next month. I'm looking forward to it. -- Sincerely etc., Christopher Sawtell
Re: Linux in schools
On Fri, 2003-08-22 at 13:53, Sascha Beaumont wrote: Basically you've got the choice of two camps, you can go the KDE way or the Gnome2 way. Rubbish - I'm using gnome apps and kde apps and my window manager happens to be twm, with wdm as a login manager. Linux is not choose KDE or gnome and you're stuck with it for ever like some people insist on thinking.
RE: Exchange server Re: Linux in schools
On Fri, 2003-08-22 at 14:14, Marc Archbold wrote: I retract my statement earlier about festering.. How about simply totally unsuitable for schools ? Please, elaborate. Okay - after scraping up the money to buy a licence there is no continual fund for calling expensive external people in to fix problems. In short - MONEY. I've never had any training on how to use exchange server - its too expensive. Do you see the problem? At least with an imap server running on a linux box I can ask google for help, and not come across the hire an MSCE stuff. Odd, considering their next Exchange course in Christchurch is FREE. Please, elaborate. Whose course? When/where etc. Covering what exactly. A URL would be useful. It doesn't help that our version of exchange is 5.5, which is 4+ years old and is probably about as supported as win NT itself. The information contained in this email is privileged and confidential and intended for the addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, you are asked to respect that confidentiality and not disclose, copy or make use of its contents. If received in error you are asked to destroy this email and contact the sender immediately. Your assistance is appreciated. Does this disclaimer apply given that its to a mailing list, the membership of which is unknown (to the sender) and that the mail is also archived on a publicly viewable web page for an unstated time extending into the future? Mind you - this thread has brought out some useful tips from the list members - I'm looking at emerge, as Bjorn suggested. Its not helpful at all that the clients are used to Exchange client for winnt (aka the old Inbox icon in win95) and it doesn't even support imap.
Re: Linux in schools
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Fri, 2003-08-22 at 13:53, Sascha Beaumont wrote: Basically you've got the choice of two camps, you can go the KDE way or the Gnome2 way. Rubbish - I'm using gnome apps and kde apps and my window manager happens to be twm, with wdm as a login manager. Linux is not choose KDE or gnome and you're stuck with it for ever like some people insist on thinking. I second that. For me Linux is all about choice, I can choose my web browser, my mail client, my file manager. Sure you can do most of that on Windows, but there are times when Windows just ignores these settings. For instance, if I click a link in an MSN conversation it opens in IE despite the fact that Mozilla is my default browser. Thanks Microsoft! :o( - Hamish McBrearty MCSE MCSA Network Engineer Rangi Ruru Girls' School 59 Hewitts Road Christchurch NEW ZEALAND Ph 03 355-6099 Fax 03 355-6027 CELL 021 999770 E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re: modem prob
On Fri, 2003-08-22 at 11:20, uttam wrote: Hello Everyone, I am uttam from india and living in CHCH now. On 14 Aug I attended the CLUG meeting at sydenham but i could not meet many of you. Lately i realised an anotther problem in my computer that is with the sound (noise) all the time from the speakers and particularly more when loading something. My PC is a DUAL boot(XP and RH Linux 9) Specs: 1.7 GHz, 256 RAM, Internal MODEM is TM-IP5600 from TP-LINK (WWW.TP-LINK.COM) Any help Please? Best Regards uttam I'm not sure if I understood you correctly but here goes. Try turning the sound down to about 75%. I find if I have the sound up to 100% I get a lot of noise other the speakers on the other end. -- Joshua Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Torvalds Slams SCO
greets more on sco vs a_better_world, this time from the man himself. link to print- therefore eye friendly(?) - version : http://www.eweek.com/print_article/0,3668,a=49608,00.asp it's not very long but worth a read, best bit - Torvalds: Hey, until they can be bothered to show something real, I don't think it's even worth discussing. Bruce Perens covers the code discussed in greater detail at: http://perens.com/Articles/SCO/SCOSlideShow.html this article replaces an earlier one he did when he had less of sco's jealously guarded information. It's an essential read for any of us wanting the skinny on what all's going on.IMHO. cheers peter
RE: Linux in schools
Thanks for all your comments. I don't want to start wars amongst our selves about which solution is the best, just try to get a feel for the way I should approach things. I am so disillusioned with MS, I have been using local MSCE people who know far less than I do. They charge over $90 per hour and spend the time on my computers searching for the answers to my problems. I can do that myself for free. Back to Linux. I have Knoppix, and have passed this on to some students. I have Mandrake and RH. We are also using Mozilla now on some computers. I would look at changing my computer room first, by installing Mozilla and Koffice or/and Oppenoffice on to Windoze. I need to check out Karbon. We don't allow e-mail for students as they just waste time with it. (Teachers are just as bad :- I would then look and changing over some computers in my room to Linux. Security, changing / removing windows apps is a problem and Linux should fix that, right? I need to take things slowly as most people hate change. I also need to find a solution for MS Exchange, and will check out some suggestions. Thanks again. Terry Cole Rotorua, New Zealand mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cole.gen.nz http://www.websnz.com
uploading web pages
I am setting up an internal web server on a rh8 machine. Is there a recommended way to build a site, in terms of: whether pages are stored in var/www/html; whether pages are stored elsewhere, with symbolic links the manner in which files are uploaded; ie do I create a user whose home directory is /var/www/html, and upload files to that directory using ftp? I wish to set this up so it is relatively simple for people to administer using the likes of frontpage.
Re: Linux in schools
On Fri, 2003-08-22 at 15:45, CF wrote: On Fri, 2003-08-22 at 13:53, Sascha Beaumont wrote: Basically you've got the choice of two camps, you can go the KDE way or the Gnome2 way. Rubbish - I'm using gnome apps and kde apps and my window manager happens to be twm, with wdm as a login manager. Linux is not choose KDE or gnome and you're stuck with it for ever like some people insist on thinking. Sorry if my statement came off a bit harsh, but what we're talking about in this context is school kids and teachers, who you want to give a consistent interface and set of applications to. Stuff that seems easy to you, and changing between different sets of applications and slightly different usability goals just confuses that matter further for the poor person who just wants the basics. These are users who ARENT ALLOWED to configure their desktop the way they want it, they _should_ be given a fixed standard. Otherwise support hassles get out of control. By saying you choose Gnome, or KDE, I mean exactally that. Make a choice for the school, and stick with it. Pick a set of applications for the standard user and setup the desktop and shortcuts so they're obvious. Gnome and nautilus? Or KDE and Konquoror? If a the school does end up going down the linux road, the teachers are going to print out handouts eventually in linux. Probably with screenshots, keep it simple, dont confuse the matter with 7 different word processors in the 'Office Applications' menu. Sure you may mix and match applications, I had an issue the other day where I was using a KDE app and clicked on a weblink. It opened up in Konqueror, I've not used konqueror in years, I use galeon, I have $BROWSER set to /usr/bin/galeon, galeon selected as the default gnome browser, yet some gnome apps still open things in mozilla. KDE apps using konqueror. This is not a problem for me, but I'll bet my kernel that its DAMN confusing for someone who's just moved over from windows to have three different browsers up. As much as I agree, linux is plenty of mix and match, there is still a long way to go before we have inter application drag and drop working seamlessly between kde, gnome and everything else. Before we get a common clipboard. Before we get to a instinctive level of usability. Regards, Sascha -- Sascha Beaumont [EMAIL PROTECTED]
