Re: Is there such a distro?
On Tue 01 Jun 2010 12:39:09 NZST +1200, Hadley Rich wrote: Even more useful is sudo sux sux sux: Command not found. sux was deprecated some while ago. It's now integrated in su, and runs xauth somehow via pam. A ~/.xauth... is created. It Just Works(TM). which gives root the ability to open gui tools. I always take that for granted. (Assuming local user login, not ssh.) `gksu gedit` gksu gksu: Command not found. Ok so can you make do without a root password, but I still don't see why I have to and remain not to be interested. Each to their own. Volker -- Volker Kuhlmann http://volker.dnsalias.net/ Please do not CC list postings to me.
Re: Is there such a distro?
On Mon, 31 May 2010 12:27:38 you wrote: On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 12:10 PM, Ryan McCoskrie ryan.mccosk...@gmail.com wrote: Okay there have been a few misunderstandings about what I meant in my original post on this thread. After some thinking I believe that I can clarify myself properly On Sat, 29 May 2010 13:02:30 you wrote: Are there any desktop centered distros whose primary aim is to have as few surprises as possible for people who are already accustomed to Linux? By accustomed to Linux I mean that this user is more comfortable with Linux than any other system but not necessarily a power user. I just want a very generic distro. By generic I don't just mean desktop centered with no paradigm shifting technologies. I mean a system that aims to have as few original contributions as possible what do you mean as few original contributions as possible - do you mean you want a distro without any special tools that are designed just for that distro, by the distro maker? AFAIK that is near impossible without simply repackaging something else (such as the case with CentOS and Redhat). But yeah as few non-universal features as possible and absolutely nothing set up in a unique or near unique way. I suppose the real reason I want a system like what I am trying to describe is so that we can point and say Well there is no standard Linux but that one works exactly how any junior admin would expect. If so, ubuntu won't do you as they innovate quite a bit, as does fedora, as does suse. That comes of having a bunch of paid developers[1] sitting there developing, innovating and differentiating their distros. And at times their developments get taken up by other distros. eg REDHAT package manager is used by a lot of distros besides Redhat, upstart was developed by Canonical but is now also used by Fedora and others. If you want a very generic system with no distro centered addons then you perhaps don't want a distro at all, because they all try to differentiate themselves in some way with some new 'feature'. If I still misunderstood what you are after then please explain again. and have a complete out-of-the-box set of programs (GUI and CLI) that one would expect out of a Linux based system. P.S: I know that you can set a root password on Ubuntu but I seam to remember other things being dropped because they're of no use to granny. You don't need a root password. Ubuntu proves that. You do if you have a neurotic need to configure every detail but lack the time and bandwidth for Gentoo/Slackware/LFS. P.P.S: We're lucky here but there is still need for DVD based systems for those without broadband. I was running Fedora without internet any connection at all from mid 2006 to the start of 2008. [1] OK so fedora's paid developers really work for redhat.
Re: Is there such a distro?
On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 8:14 PM, Ryan McCoskrie ryan.mccosk...@gmail.com wrote: You do if you have a neurotic need to configure every detail but lack the time and bandwidth for Gentoo/Slackware/LFS. well give it a root password then. What the hell has bandwidth to do with configuration?
Re: Is there such a distro?
On Tue, 01 Jun 2010 20:27:07 you wrote: On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 8:14 PM, Ryan McCoskrie ryan.mccosk...@gmail.com wrote: You do if you have a neurotic need to configure every detail but lack the time and bandwidth for Gentoo/Slackware/LFS. well give it a root password then. What the hell has bandwidth to do with configuration? Those are the ones most famously in need of heavy configuration to make them usable on a day to day basis and LFS and Gentoo both need to be downloaded bit by bit while they are installed as opposed to acquired from a computer magazine.
Re: Is there such a distro?
On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 8:47 PM, Ryan McCoskrie ryan.mccosk...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, 01 Jun 2010 20:27:07 you wrote: On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 8:14 PM, Ryan McCoskrie ryan.mccosk...@gmail.com wrote: You do if you have a neurotic need to configure every detail but lack the time and bandwidth for Gentoo/Slackware/LFS. well give it a root password then. What the hell has bandwidth to do with configuration? Those are the ones most famously in need of heavy configuration to make them usable on a day to day basis and LFS and Gentoo both need to be downloaded bit by bit while they are installed as opposed to acquired from a computer magazine. The Edgeware Community Centre has a machine with many linux distros on it, you can write a cd. But like any operating system you will constantly upgrading. Things are fixed. They require updating. Security updates. Program improvements. Even a week after release of any new distro version there will be updates.
Re: Is there such a distro?
Volker Kuhlmann wrote: Ok so can you make do without a root password, but I still don't see why I have to and remain not to be interested. Each to their own. I think you really want to disable root login (entirely) for, say, a university computer-lab. Anyone could switch to a virtual console and anonymously brute-force the root account. For personal systems, as you said, each to their own. Any system administrators care to start a cool-flame war[1]? ;-) --Aidan 1 A flame war without third-degree burns. signature.asc Description: PGP signature signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Is there such a distro?
On Tue, 2010-06-01 at 20:47 +1200, Ryan McCoskrie wrote: [snip] You know Ryan, I still haven't got a clue what you're actually wanting! TBH, any linux, freebsd, Solaris, HP-UX, etc, etc, etc - they all provide a platform for you to run your applications upon. They all talk to each other in the same manner and are built on the same philosophy. Sure I'm generalising, but the differences are trivial. It's a part of the learning process to either embrace them or to learn to use a subset of them that work exactly the same on most platforms. The only real differences are the sysadmin toolkits, and if you're that way inclined, then you need to know those trivialities. Cheers, Steve. smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
Re: Is there such a distro?
On Tue, 2010-06-01 at 21:20 +1200, Aidan Gauland wrote: Volker Kuhlmann wrote: Ok so can you make do without a root password, but I still don't see why I have to and remain not to be interested. Each to their own. I think you really want to disable root login (entirely) for, say, a university computer-lab. Anyone could switch to a virtual console and anonymously brute-force the root account. For personal systems, as you said, each to their own. Any system administrators care to start a cool-flame war[1]? ;-) --Aidan 1 A flame war without third-degree burns. I'd go further: read-only systems, bring your own usb stick/nfs mounts. Run it like a kiosk. Log out, reset. Steve. smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
Re: Is there such a distro?
On 01/06/10 21:20, Aidan Gauland wrote: Volker Kuhlmann wrote: Ok so can you make do without a root password, but I still don't see why I have to and remain not to be interested. Each to their own. I think you really want to disable root login (entirely) for, say, a university computer-lab. Anyone could switch to a virtual console and anonymously brute-force the root account. Sorry not even at a university lab... If someone wants to brute force our root account, they obviously have not enough work to do. Our logging should find the attempts... Like Volker, I have yet to be convinced of the point of typing sudo in front of all the commands I want to run as root. When it becomes reflex, you are going to make the same mistakes as if you login as root. Pete -- --- Peter Glassenbury Computer Science department p...@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz University of Canterbury +64 3 3642987 ext 7762 New Zealand
Re: Is there such a distro?
Like Volker, I have yet to be convinced of the point of typing sudo in front of all the commands I want to run as root. When it becomes reflex, you are going to make the same mistakes as if you login as root. True true. Still, I like not having a root password. Means I don't have to change it after someone has had a one-off need for admin rights. Yes, I know I should be changing it frequently anyway. sudo su gives me root when I have lots to do.
Re: Is there such a distro?
On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 7:57 AM, Peter Glassenbury (CSSE) peter.glassenb...@canterbury.ac.nz wrote: Like Volker, I have yet to be convinced of the point of typing sudo in front of all the commands I want to run as root. When it becomes reflex, you are going to make the same mistakes as if you login as root. If you are the owner of the computer in question and you are competant, there is no reason at all not to use root all the time. Just set your uid to 0 and be done with it. I'm as serious with that comment as I am with writing passwords down, i.e. very serious. However, if you are *not* the owner (i.e. in any business context) then sudo provides a very valuable audit log experience. You have 5 admins -- which one was it that logged on as root and broke your production system? With sudo, it is much easier to track back on problems. You can use sudo to get a root shell, rather than restrict it to individual commands, if you want the flexibility. -jim
Re: Is there such a distro?
On 2 June 2010 10:31, Jim Cheetham j...@gonzul.net wrote: If you are the owner of the computer in question and you are competant, there is no reason at all not to use root all the time. Just set your uid to 0 and be done with it. I'm as serious with that comment as I am with writing passwords down, i.e. very serious. This is both horrible and dangerous advice. First, we are human and I don't care how competent you are, people make mistakes. Running as a normal user the impact of mistakes are much less. Running as root, a mistake could mean re-install from backups. Second, even if you are on top of what you do, a run away process becomes much more dangerous to the system. The reserve free space (usually 5%) that is there in case of a too full disk doesn't work. Many applications are buggy and depend on user level access to protect the system. (wireshark/and the like) Do you really trust flash/firefox not to do bad things as root? Running as root also has direct access to memory and can kill/modify memory of other processes. However, if you are *not* the owner (i.e. in any business context) then sudo provides a very valuable audit log experience. You have 5 admins -- which one was it that logged on as root and broke your production system? With sudo, it is much easier to track back on problems. You can use sudo to get a root shell, rather than restrict it to individual commands, if you want the flexibility. -jim Sure, sudo helps with logs if the admins use it. I use a configuration management systems to ensure things are kept in check. Typically I find that my admins would use it when doing simple things. (vim/restarting services) But if they need to do a lot of work, sudo su - is used. With a remote root user login it could be any one of the admins. With sudo, the admin user logs in with their account and then runs sudo. So you get some ideas. =) Sudo also allows you to give fine-grained acess controls intead of full root. Allowing junor admins to do x,y,z only is a good thing. (tm) sV
Re: Is there such a distro?
On Wed, 2010-06-02 at 08:31 +1000, Jim Cheetham wrote: On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 7:57 AM, Peter Glassenbury (CSSE) peter.glassenb...@canterbury.ac.nz wrote: Like Volker, I have yet to be convinced of the point of typing sudo in front of all the commands I want to run as root. When it becomes reflex, you are going to make the same mistakes as if you login as root. If you are the owner of the computer in question and you are competant, there is no reason at all not to use root all the time. Just set your uid to 0 and be done with it. I'm as serious with that comment as I am with writing passwords down, i.e. very serious. However, if you are *not* the owner (i.e. in any business context) then sudo provides a very valuable audit log experience. You have 5 admins -- which one was it that logged on as root and broke your production system? With sudo, it is much easier to track back on problems. You can use sudo to get a root shell, rather than restrict it to individual commands, if you want the flexibility. -jim I am in absolute agreement with both of these statements (although I expect you're waiting for the flame war as well Jim), until it comes to directly accessing remote systems as root - even if it is your server. Having to guess which user account to ssh into ( there are plenty of account name popularity lists around to suggest the ones *not* to use ), as well as the password massively increases security. Add a fail2ban / denyhosts and it'll take a pretty serious distributed attack to succeed. Personally, I add a vpn to the mix as well, and only use raw ssh in an emergency from specific IP addresses. That way they have to find my treehouse in Borneo before going for my servers. ( Oh what a giveaway! ) But in a shared admin environment, the sudo's audit trail gets rid of all those sloping shoulders... and we all make mistakes after all! My $0.02, Steve -- Steve Holdoway st...@greengecko.co.nz http://www.greengecko.co.nz MSN: st...@greengecko.co.nz Skype: sholdowa smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
Another old SCSI request
Hello, A few months ago I asked on this list if anyone had any older SCSI gear. I received some responses and am now sorted on that front. However now I am on the look-out for some older SCSI differential (HVD) equipment. Either a hard disk or a tape drive would be perfect, but failing that I'd accept any HVD device at all. Does anyone have any of these floating around? Please contact me off-list if you do. I hope this isn't too far off topic - it peripherally relates to Linux via the Linux-based SCSI device we are developing. Regards, Andre
Re: Another old SCSI request
On Wed, 2010-06-02 at 13:12 +1200, Andre Renaud wrote: Hello, A few months ago I asked on this list if anyone had any older SCSI gear. I received some responses and am now sorted on that front. However now I am on the look-out for some older SCSI differential (HVD) equipment. Either a hard disk or a tape drive would be perfect, but failing that I'd accept any HVD device at all. Does anyone have any of these floating around? Please contact me off-list if you do. I hope this isn't too far off topic - it peripherally relates to Linux via the Linux-based SCSI device we are developing. Regards, Andre I've got some low voltage diff stuff lying around that may or may not still work... -- Steve Holdoway st...@greengecko.co.nz http://www.greengecko.co.nz MSN: st...@greengecko.co.nz Skype: sholdowa smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
Re: Another old SCSI request
Steve Holdoway wrote: On Wed, 2010-06-02 at 13:12 +1200, Andre Renaud wrote: Hello, A few months ago I asked on this list if anyone had any older SCSI gear. I received some responses and am now sorted on that front. However now I am on the look-out for some older SCSI differential (HVD) equipment. Either a hard disk or a tape drive would be perfect, but failing that I'd accept any HVD device at all. Does anyone have any of these floating around? Please contact me off-list if you do. I hope this isn't too far off topic - it peripherally relates to Linux via the Linux-based SCSI device we are developing. Regards, Andre I've got some low voltage diff stuff lying around that may or may not still work... Thanks for the offer Steve, but unfortunately I need the older high-voltage differential equipment. Thanks, Andre
Workshop 7.30pm tonight
Hi all, monthly notice, Jun.2: Tonight is the Sydenham GNU/Linux Users' workshop, 7.30-9.30pm (first Wednesday of each month, February to December), at the South Learning Centre http://www.library.christchurch.org.nz/South/, (rear door) South Christchurch Library, 66 Colombo Street, Beckenham. BYO distro, liveCD show tell, exchange tuition. Ubuntu is the default distro used. A chance to meet other *nix users, have installation questions answered, get on-line security tips, etc. Venue is home base for: Saturday 18 September 2010 Software Freedom Day http://www.softwarefreedomday.org International Free Open-Source Software Festival. 9.30pm visit to Beck's Southern Alehouse, Beckenham, subject to demand. All welcome. Kind regards, Rik Tindall ___ pp GNUz http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/gnuz
