Re: [ILUG-BOM] Delayed write-up on Dec. GLUG meet
On 12/12/06, Roshan wrote: Hello List, I haven't been able to prepare the write up of the meet for now, due to the problems expressed earlier. I hope to solve that problem as soon as possible and post the write up on the wiki. Well, if you don't mind, let the temporary member chip in! Since I am here for the holidays, I wanted to visit HBCSE for the LUG meet on Sunday, December 10th. I realized that I would be late, and rushed to the venue and reached there at 4:15 PM (15 mins past the scheduled start) only to realize that the speakers themselves hadn't made it to the venue yet! Looks like all LUG meets begin late. But really, you must consider an alternate location; though HBCSE is excellent on all other counts, the location is a big minus! Anyway, regular attendees would know best. Well, finally, Kartik Mistry began his talk at about 4:40 PM, talking about the basics of making Debian packages. He introduced the deb format, and mentioned it's merits and demerits vs. RPM etc., and walked us through a couple of examples on how to create debs for various packages. He briefly mentioned how to use the various tools assisting the Debian package maintainer, such as debhelper and devscripts, and also went through a full-fledged example of Debianizing a package from scratch. Finally, he also talked about the procedure for getting your packages into Debian GNU/Linux and Ubuntu, and emphasized that for acceptance, quality of the package was very important. He also mentioned that after one manages to get some experience in packaging and contributes to Debian, he/she can apply to become a Debian developer, but the time taken for acceptance may span upto years. This was followed by the tea break. Post tea, Krishnakant Mane introduced screenreaders and how computing could be enabled for the visually impaired. Then, there were many hiccups in getting Orca to work on the computer which which was being used (Anurag's?). After frantic attempts to get things working, a switch of computer set things right. Krishnakant described the various features built into Orca which enabled persons to know with ease the description of each Window, widget and it's property, state etc. He showed us how the way the computer spoke out description helped him understand what Window he was in, and what actions he needed to take. He also showed us an example of a text editor, where he could customize the way what he spoke was echoed out by him; it can be word by word, or letter by letter, so that mistakes could be corrected then and there. He wound up his talk mentioning that they had plans of getting these features in Indian languages as well, citing that the lack of ISCII compliant fonts was the stumbling block in quickly finishing that task. I guess the above is to the best of my understanding, please make corrections/additions wherever necessary. Thanks for the great talks! Kumar -- Kumar Appaiah, 462, Jamuna Hostel, Indian Insititute of Technology Madras, Chennai - 600036 -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] What is stoping Indians from contributing to FOSS ?
On 12/12/06, Dinesh Joshi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tuesday 12 December 2006 12:25, jtd wrote: Then a friend comes along and shows the aweful loading times that OO.o has, the occasional page alignment mismatch in .doc files and also installs a pirated copy of Adobe distiller which puts a nice shiny PDF converter icon in M$ Word. The person never gives OO.o a second thought... oh did I read aweful loading time? I never saw that happening in the recent versions. I think openoffice is pritty fast and stable right now. ubuntu 6.10 comes with one of the best versions. and I wont be surprised if debian 4 (can some one tell me when is it being released?) also ships the same or even a better version. I wont mind even if people use the windows kernel and desktop. I am not saying that switch to linux from day one after I show what crapware windows and its company gives or even for that matter most non-free software gives. but there is no harm in using open office, gimp, and other such tools, isn't it? once we realise the power of these tools, and once we know that they are not some strange time pass experiments done by students or hackers, I don't find any reason to use tools like office. really I am surprised to here that open office is still slow. I was doing a demo of the linux based screen reader in the lug last sunday, and on a 256 mb average machine the spreadsheet and the word processor came up in pritty much the same time as $office would take. and don't forget I was using a screen reader that consumes a lot of resources. so I will request all other people to kindly check the information they post and correct me if I am wrong. regards. Krishnakant. -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] What is stoping Indians from contributing to FOSS ?
On Mon, Dec 11, 2006 at 11:09:30PM +0530, krishnakant Mane wrote: dear aparna, I entirely agree with you but I just have an extention to this which slightly differs from your point of view. you say that people will realise the value of foss when they are made to pay for the non-free softwrae. right, well said! but why should people not pay for free software? I think free software must be charged quite well. It is true that people can (and should) pay for services related to free software. I wanted to emphasise the fact that people do not have respect for copyright. So, using pirated software does not seem to affect their conscience. Regards, Aparna. -- Aparna Appaiah -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] What is stoping Indians from contributing to FOSS ?
On 12-Dec-06, at 3:20 PM, Aparna Appaiah wrote: people not pay for free software? I think free software must be charged quite well. It is true that people can (and should) pay for services related to free software. I wanted to emphasise the fact that people do not have respect for copyright. So, using pirated software does not seem to affect their conscience. the same people have a hell of a respect for copyright when they own the copyright -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves Associate, NRC-FOSS [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/ -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] What is stoping Indians from contributing to FOSS ?
On Monday 11 December 2006 15:21, Aparna Appaiah wrote: On Sun, Dec 10, 2006 at 10:36:41PM +0530, ???|Praveen wrote: Hi, Is it a cultural issue? Do we need someone to tell us what to do? What are other reasons for not many Indians in the global FOSS scenery? Piracy plays a major role here in India. People prefer hiring and copying pirated CDs of movies, songs etc. dont confuse software and content. The two are completely different. And much as the music industry would love to label consumers as crooks, they are in fact forcing consumers to become so. A few months ago my wife purchased a cd of original beatles. There were a few originals (i have cassetes of some of these) and the rest were remixes. Most cd compilations of music will be 80% full of crap. In effect u are paying through your nose to subsidise the music industry's inability to come up with viable business models. Then there is the case of public performance, radio broadcasts. etc etc. The same thing holds for Windoze as well. I believe awareness about FOSS will increase the moment people are made to pay for their copies of proprietary software. Wish granted. Install vista. -- Rgds JTD -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] OpenSUSE 10.2
On Tue, 2006-12-12 at 12:42 +0530, Rajen M. Parekh wrote: Hi, Anybody managed to get his/her hands on OpenSUSE 10.2 ? I'm interested if anybody has a copy, preferably on DVD. I have the 5 + Add-ons CDs for i386. Contact me off list. -- akk -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
[ILUG-BOM] OT: is imap protocol used by gmail and yahoo?
hello all, this may or may not be considered off topic. actually the subject line seams to be off topic but this is some thing to do with a program I am writing which needs to send emails out of the box. I want to know if imap is used by all popular email servers. I will need to send emails to gmail, yahoo, msn (unfortunately) and rediffmail. may be sify also but that's not sure. so when I write my program in python and asuming it is running on gnu/linux, should I program for imap given the above email servers? also do let me know what else will I need to have on my linux box, msmtp? or any thing else? I asked on the python list and they say nothing is really needed. thanks, Krishnakant -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Chirag: NFS Error during Etherboot
On Sunday 10 December 2006 22:39, Chirag wrote: The Error Which I had typed earlier.Some more details regarding that /etc/exports file contents What error? /opt/ltsp 192.168.0.0/255.255.255.0(ro,no_root_squash,sync) /var/opt/ltsp/swapfiles 192.168.0.0/255.255.255.0(rw,no_root_squash,async) Nothing wrong with the lines. but u could replace the mask with 24 (which actually means the same thing) Perhaps your /etc/hosts.allow file does not allow a connect. Try mounting these exports from another machine while tailing syslog on both server and client. -- Rgds JTD -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] What is stoping Indians from contributing to FOSS ?
On Tuesday 12 December 2006 15:20, Aparna Appaiah wrote: It is true that people can (and should) pay for services related to free software. I wanted to emphasise the fact that people do not have Aparna, people are ready to pay provided the cost is reasonable. Last I checked M$ charged 14000-18000 INR for their M$ office. Who in their right minds would afford it? The casual home user definitely wont! :P This is the root cause for piracy... People are/will use FOSS as long as it doesn't cost them a pretty penny ( reasonable cost is ok ) and gets their work done. The moment you start charging a whole lot for your software ( maybe it proprietary code or FOSS solution ), the same people will start pirating it ;) -- Regards, Dinesh A. Joshi -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] OT: is imap protocol used by gmail and yahoo?
On Tue, 2006-12-12 at 16:52 +0530, krishnakant Mane wrote: hello all, this may or may not be considered off topic. actually the subject line seams to be off topic but this is some thing to do with a program I am writing which needs to send emails out of the box. I want to know if imap is used by all popular email servers. I will need to send emails to gmail, yahoo, msn (unfortunately) and rediffmail. may be sify also but that's not sure. so when I write my program in python and asuming it is running on gnu/linux, should I program for imap given the above email servers? also do let me know what else will I need to have on my linux box, msmtp? or any thing else? I asked on the python list and they say nothing is really needed. thanks, Krishnakant If your peogram needs to send out mail to each of those services (I am assuming that you are not planning to spam) you should work with smtp rather than imap. Also, you should not be sending out mails directly to those services. Considering working via your own MTA. -gabin -- They pay me to think... As long as I keep my mouth shut. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] OT: is imap protocol used by gmail and yahoo?
Sometime Today, kM cobbled together some glyphs to say: so when I write my program in python and asuming it is running on gnu/linux, should I program for imap given the above email servers? also do let me know what else will I need to have on my linux box, msmtp? or any thing else? I asked on the python list and they say IMAP is for receiving mail. You need SMTP to send mail. -- I had the rare misfortune of being one of the first people to try and implement a PL/1 compiler. -- T. Cheatham -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] What is stoping Indians from contributing to FOSS ?
2006/12/12, krishnakant Mane [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On 12/12/06, Dinesh Joshi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tuesday 12 December 2006 12:25, jtd wrote: Then a friend comes along and shows the aweful loading times that OO.o has, the occasional page alignment mismatch in .doc files and also installs a pirated copy of Adobe distiller which puts a nice shiny PDF converter icon in M$ Word. The person never gives OO.o a second thought... oh did I read aweful loading time? I never saw that happening in the recent versions. I think openoffice is pritty fast and stable right now. ubuntu 6.10 comes with one of the best versions. and I wont be surprised if debian 4 (can some one tell me when is it being released?) also ships the same or even a better version. I wont mind even if people use the windows kernel and desktop. I am not saying that switch to linux from day one after I show what crapware windows and its company gives or even for that matter most non-free software gives. but there is no harm in using open office, gimp, and other such tools, isn't it? once we realise the power of these tools, and once we know that they are not some strange time pass experiments done by students or hackers, I don't find any reason to use tools like office. really I am surprised to here that open office is still slow. I was doing a demo of the linux based screen reader in the lug last sunday, and on a 256 mb average machine the spreadsheet and the word processor came up in pritty much the same time as $office would take. and don't forget I was using a screen reader that consumes a lot of resources. so I will request all other people to kindly check the information they post and correct me if I am wrong. regards. Krishnakant. -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers -- Value your freedom, or you will lose it, teaches history. `Don't bother us with politics', respond those who don't want to learn. -- Richard Stallman Me scribbles at http://www.pravi.co.nr -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] What is stoping Indians from contributing to FOSS ?
Hi, Sorry if you got another mail before this, caused by some wierd keyboard shortcuts. 2006/12/12, krishnakant Mane [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I think openoffice is pritty fast and stable right now. ubuntu 6.10 comes with one of the best versions. and I wont be surprised if debian 4 (can some one tell me when is it being released?) also ships the same or even a better version. I think ubuntu 6.10 comes with Open Office 2.0.4. Debian 4.0 etch (currently in frozen sate and expected to be released by end of this month - as the debian's policy is realeased when it is ready) will have the same version. Most of the release goals for Debian 4.0 including linux kernel 2.6.18, new graphical installer, SELinux support, LSB 3.1 compliance ... are in good shape to be released. Also other new changes includes better support for Desktops and laptops (soundcard detection configuration, battery power ...) and improved co-ordination between various desktop environments (KDE, GNOME and XFCE will follow common default theme) ... See the freeze announcement http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2006/12/msg4.html Regards Praveen -- Value your freedom, or you will lose it, teaches history. `Don't bother us with politics', respond those who don't want to learn. -- Richard Stallman Me scribbles at http://www.pravi.co.nr -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
[ILUG-BOM] need a good web designing tool on linux.
hello, a question that has come up from many of my web developing friends is that if there is a good alternative to dreamviewer then they will shift to using gnu/linux from the next day. I want to know what does gnu/linux provide for a free web development tool on gnome desktop? it should have features like dream viewer. Krishnakant. -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] need a good web designing tool on linux.
a question that has come up from many of my web developing friends is that if there is a good alternative to dreamviewer then they will shift to using gnu/linux from the next day. http://www.nvu.com is one of the best that I have seen. It works on Windows machines too, just in case they want to try it for some time before shifting. I want to know what does gnu/linux provide for a free web development tool on gnome desktop? it should have features like dream viewer. Krishnakant. -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] need a good web designing tool on linux.
Sometime Today, kM cobbled together some glyphs to say: a question that has come up from many of my web developing friends is that if there is a good alternative to dreamviewer then they will shift to using gnu/linux from the next day. also tell your friends that if they use dreamweaver for web development, they can forget about getting a job where I work. -- Garbage In -- Gospel Out. -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] need a good web designing tool on linux.
On 12/12/06, Philip Tellis wrote: also tell your friends that if they use dreamweaver for web development, they can forget about getting a job where I work. I agree check out. If you need some ide check out http://www.aptana.com/ Seems good. -- -BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK- Version: 3.12 GCS d- s++: a-- C UL P++ L E+++ W+++ N++ w--- O- M-- PS+ tv- b+++ DI+ D+ G+++ e+++ h+ r-- y --END GEEK CODE BLOCK-- -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] need a good web designing tool on linux.
Sometime on Dec 12, VD cobbled together some glyphs to say: I agree check out. If you need some ide check out http://www.aptana.com/ Seems good. +1 The aptana guys have done a really good job. You may not see a source download link on their website, but mail them and ask for the source you want it. Philip -- People who go to conferences are the ones who shouldn't. -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] need a good web designing tool on linux.
On 13-Dec-06, at 3:27 AM, Philip Tellis wrote: a question that has come up from many of my web developing friends is that if there is a good alternative to dreamviewer then they will shift to using gnu/linux from the next day. also tell your friends that if they use dreamweaver for web development, they can forget about getting a job where I work. what PT is trying to say is that web development - apart from entry level stuff - requires a knowledge and application of standards, which can only be achieved with a proper knowledge of CSS, HTML and javascript - all of which a tool like dreamweaver is designed to bypass. Also, the approach that 'I would switch to linux if it was like windows' is not a very good reason for switch. The one OS that is most like windows is, surprisingly enough, windows. Take office suites - open office is in now way any way as good as M$ office in doing what an office suite is supposed to do. Especially in office 2007, to quote a lot of people 'microsoft has got it right. What 'it' is, and whether 'it' is desirable, is another question. FOSS stands for the ideal of using many small tools - each one meant for one purpose and perfect for that purpose, rather than one big monster application that is meant for everything - but perfect in nothing. Most savvy users do not use an office suite at all. They use specialised tools. Conversion to FOSS philosophy and practices implies conversion of ones attitudes and ways of doing work and approaching tasks. -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves Associate, NRC-FOSS [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/ -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] need a good web designing tool on linux.
On 13-Dec-06, at 5:31 AM, Philip Tellis wrote: I agree check out. If you need some ide check out http:// www.aptana.com/ Seems good. +1 The aptana guys have done a really good job. You may not see a source download link on their website, but mail them and ask for the source you want it. java - yuck -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves Associate, NRC-FOSS [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/ -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Mobile Internet and a Linux Laptop
Debasish Das wrote:
Actually in my earlier mail by mistake I wrote about 'broadband'. What I
really want is internet connectivity from my Ubuntu Edgy 6.10 Laptop and my
cellphone.
Can you please help me on: which scheme I may use, and will that work
smoothly
on my laptop? I don't know anything about this kind of Internet connection.
You have to suggest me about how to install and all other details too.
I use Bluetooth+GPRS on my laptop. The speed I get is 4.5 to 6 KBPS
which is okay for downloading mails to your MUA but terrible if you are
interested in doing heavy duty browsing. My phone model is Nokia 6670
and service provider is Airtel, you have to subscribe to their Mobile
Office service for this to work.
I had a lot of problems when configuring this setup. I had to google a
lot and not surprisingly, Airtel's GPRS helpdesk was not at all helpful
when the question of OS came up. The tech that I talked to knew only
about the Other OS.
Below is the relevant portion of /etc/bluetooth/rfcomm.conf .
rfcomm0 {
bind yes;
device 00:0E:ED:F8:61:0B;
channel 1;
comment Veejay's 6670;
}
I use KPPP as the dialer. You will have to create a new modem in the
KPPP configuration. The modem configuration in KPPP is as below.
Modem Name : whatever
Modem Device: /dev/rfcomm0
Flow Control: Hardware [CRTSCTS]
Line Termination: 115200
Enter the following in modem commands.
Initializing string 1 : ATZ
Initializing string 2 : AT+CGDCONT=1,IP,airtelgprs.com,,0,0
# I got the above value from the Airtel GPRS helpdesk. So it would be a
good idea to talk to your service provider beforehand.
Init response : OK
No dial tone detection : ATX3
Dial string : ATDT
Connect response: CONNECT
Busy response : BUSY
No carrier response : NO CARRIER
No dialtone response: NO DIALTONE
Hangup string : +++ATH
Hangup response : OK
Answer string : ATA
Ring response : RING
Answer response : CONNECT
DLP response: DIGITAL LINE DETECTED
Escape string : +++
Escape response : OK
Next you need to create a new Account. Use the Manual configuration
instead of the Wizard. Under the Dial tab, the entries are as follows.
Connection name : whatever
Phone number: *99#
Authentication : Script-based
The remaining setting can be left to the default values. There are two
phone numbers that can be used here. I don't remember the other number,
but you can get them from your service provider's GPRS helpdesk.
I have also used Tata Indicom's CDMA data card (Huawei EC321) on FC5. I
was told that this is the most linux friendly data card, and the source
was not exaggerating. The card was not mine but I got to test it for an
hour or so. The connection speed was over 15KBPS. I had to use wvdial
for dialing as the help I got was for it. I didn't have the card long
enough to adapt the settings for KPPP.
The contents of wvdial.conf is below. AFAIR, I didn't have to change it
much, except maybe the device in [Modem0]. That value I got from the
output of /var/log/messages when inserting the card.
[Modem0]
Modem = /dev/ttyUSB0
Baud = 230400
SetVolume = 0
Dial Command = ATDT
Init1 = ATZ
Init3 = ATM0
FlowControl = CRTSCTS
[Dialer vdata]
Username = internet
Password = internet
Phone = #777
Stupid Mode = 1
Init1 = ATZ
Init2 = ATQ0 V1 E1 S0=0 C1 D2 +FCLASS=0
Inherits = Modem0
Hope this helps.
--
Regards
Vivek J. Patankar
Registered Linux User #374218
Fedora Core release 6 (Zod)
Linux 2.6.18-1.2798.fc6 x86_64
--
http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] What is stoping Indians from contributing to FOSS ?
On 12/12/06 12:47 +0530, Dinesh Joshi wrote: snip Does anybody know what SQA activities FOSS have? How are the quality standards defined? What are the metrics? The metrics are what the contributors want them to be. Heavily arbitrary, but then, it does what I want it to do, the way I want to do it is the core metric. Some projects have public quality standards (GNOME/KDE), others don't (mutt). For applications implementing open specifications, the reference point is how well the application follows the standard. Devdas Bhagat -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
[ILUG-BOM] Chirag: NFS Error during Etherboot
If some one can provide me the wholly configured LTSP system then please can someone email me that stuff One more thing when I run nfs-kernelserver the following output is seen /etc/init.d/nfs-kernelserver: line 46: mountpoint: command not found. mount:nfsd already mounted or /proc/fs/nfsd busy mount: according to mtab;nfsd is already mounted on /proc/fs/nfsd Exporting directories for NFS Kernel daemon . done Starting NFS kernel daemon:nfsd mountd contents of /etc/hosts.allow portmap in.tftpd rpc.mountd mountd rpc.lockd lockd rpc.nfsd nfsd : 127.0.0.1 LOCAL 192.168.0.0/255.255.255.0 : ALLOW ssh sshd : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : ALLOW ALL : 127.0.0.1 LOCAL : ALLOW ALL : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : DENY bootpd: 0.0.0.0 in.tftpd: 192.168.0. portmap:192.168.0. Subscribe to bermudaEmail: [input] [input] Browse Archives at groups.google.com - Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates. -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Chirag: NFS Error during Etherboot
On Tuesday 12 December 2006 19:06, Chirag wrote: If some one can provide me the wholly configured LTSP system then please can someone email me that stuff Looks like u are clueless about very many things. U need to read the about the following stuff thoroughly before attempting to create a diskless setup for a production environment. 1) learn to write emails (your threading is broken and has me jumping between mails to get some context). 2) DNS 3) NFS 4) PXE 5) etherboot 6) nfsroot (nfs as root fs) 7) nfsswap (pay attention to 2.6 kernel's special needs) 8) startup sequence and scripts in rcS.d 9) creation of ramdisk 10) symlinks for several files in /etc and /var 11) nbd The abv is for diskless env with local resources, which is different from a thin client setup. -- Rgds JTD -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] What is stoping Indians from contributing to FOSS ?
Hi, On 12/12/06, Dinesh Joshi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anybody know what SQA activities FOSS have? How are the quality standards defined? What are the metrics? http://scan.coverity.com/ (not free, but it scans a whole load of free software projects, including linux kernel, KDE and GNOME ). I can swear by it because people in KDE are really impressed by its results and have often blogged about it and its fine results since the day we joined it long time back. The output of its analysis is very good. I must say, that their service to the community project is just way to immense. http://www.englishbreakfastnetwork.org/ (KDE specific) http://www.sqo-oss.eu/ ( An EU project with loads of organisation and companies including KDE ) Cheers! Pradeepto -- The KDE Project : http://www.kde.org KDE India : http://in.kde.org Mailing List : http://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-india -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
