Re: [ILUG-BOM] Linux addiction !!!
On Sunday 28 December 2008 05:09:45 Dinesh Joshi wrote: On Sat, Dec 27, 2008 at 2:47 AM, Nagarjuna G. nagar...@gnowledge.org wrote: The possibility of virus in a Unix machine is possible in only one condition: all the applications are running as super user. But, this situation actually defeates the very idea of a multi-user design. Not really. You could have a remote buffer overflow exploit for the iptables code running your firewall. A properly crafted packet would wreak havoc. A simple program running as a normal unprivileged could have a exploit that could escalate the user's previledges. Infact all or most buffer overflow exploits exist due to this. You are confusing the matter. buffer overflow error is not a virus. I did not say anything about that topic. Therefore, it is correct to say that Unix OSs are practically immune No that would be too arrogant to say. Many Linux boxes get compromised everyday all over the world but they're quickly identified since *nix admins are inherently more knowledgeable than their non *nix counter parts. Again, those compromises are not because of Virus. M$ is not using a known invention (25 year old, even before their company is born) for the benifit of human kind. Therefore they a are actually liable to be sued for the crime they are committing for not providing the benifits of computer science to their customers. Heck UNIX model isn't the best that there is. Infact there are far superior kernels out there. Check out L3 / L4 kernels. They'll beat the crap out of any microkernel. They're far more secure than the Linux kernel. Theres L4 Linux which runs Linux kernel in userspace on top of L4 kernel. UNIX is mature but definitely not the best :) You miss the point agian. I did not even say that Unix is best. I only said that scientific advancements made, as old as 25yrs, are not used by that company for the benifit of humanity. Forget about the latest ones. This is to demonstrate that they do not have minimal social committment. The argument I made is to show that they are not complying to ethics. -- Nagarjuna G. gnowledge lab, HBCSE, TIFR. India. -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Linux addiction !!!
On Friday 26 December 2008 10:13:27 Surya Pratap wrote: Rony wrote: Windows is quite a PITA to maintain especially with viruses and its affinity for corrupting the file system, Windows has as many viruses because of its popularity, security, no matter the OS is actually up to the user, think of, what a nasty program can accomplish if it is given root access in linux. It is a misconception that windows has virus because it is most popular. 85% of the servers run on Unix, and most of them GNU/Linux and also since they are servers they are exposed. They do not get infected, though they are popular. Desktops are usually behind the firewall so well protected. M$ machines get infected despite that. The possibility of virus in a Unix machine is possible in only one condition: all the applications are running as super user. But, this situation actually defeates the very idea of a multi-user design. Therefore, it is correct to say that Unix OSs are practically immune to virus problem, and M$ machines have virus problem not due to their popularity but due to bad design choices. M$ is not using a known invention (25 year old, even before their company is born) for the benifit of human kind. Therefore they a are actually liable to be sued for the crime they are committing for not providing the benifits of computer science to their customers. -- Nagarjuna G. -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] New site: gnowledge network
On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 12:23 PM, Easwar Hariharan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 5:15 PM, Nagarjuna G. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry if you get multiple copies; I know there are many common members in the groups I am sending to. Dear fellow hackers, www.gnowledge.org http://gnowledge.org portal will be slowly transformed soon into a collaborative concept mapping (knowledge networking) site. Please check out the first edition with dependency maps. The old site will be slowly phased out, it is available from http://old.gnowledge.org/ New site is http://www.gnowledge.org/ Join, contribute, test, and help in this new initiative. Do spread the word around so that more and more people can add to the growing network. About spreading the word,can the HBCSE server survive a slashdotting supposing the story comes to the front page?Also,could someone please simplify the language and be a bit clearer about the goal and the process of this project,please? Sorry for the delayed reply. If you or someone wants to write a post to slashdot let me know what answers you need. I tried my best to write on the home page. it will be difficult for me know what palces should I simplify. Can you suggest improvements? Regarding whether the server can withstand the aftermath of slashdotting, yes. nagarjuna -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
[ILUG-BOM] [Positions] openings in gnowledge.org lab
Please follow the advertisement here. http://www.hbcse.tifr.res.in/Data/Objects/N/Notice1808/viewObject If you have any clarifications, you may write to me off the list. -- Nagarjuna G. http://www.gnowledge.org/ -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
[ILUG-BOM] New site: gnowledge network
Sorry if you get multiple copies; I know there are many common members in the groups I am sending to. Dear fellow hackers, www.gnowledge.org http://gnowledge.org portal will be slowly transformed soon into a collaborative concept mapping (knowledge networking) site. Please check out the first edition with dependency maps. The old site will be slowly phased out, it is available from http://old.gnowledge.org/ New site is http://www.gnowledge.org/ Join, contribute, test, and help in this new initiative. Do spread the word around so that more and more people can add to the growing network. Soon to come: type map, part map, interaction map, cause-effect map, debian software map, translation map, and soon a new SELF Platform with automatically created course structure from the knowledge network. -- Nagarjuna G. -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
[ILUG-BOM] report on the stake holders meeting
I attended the stake holders meeting in Mumbai at the Patent's office. The room was full of people, more than 80 people attended the meet. Of which about 30 were interested in the software issue. the rest of them are interested mostly in bioinformatics, chemical processes etc. What gave me solace is that this is not an attempt to modify the law. So, status quo exists. software patents per se are not possible in India. However. what the office is doing is it prepared a draft of a Manual helping the inventors in how to apply for a patent. In that manual, there is an attempt to suggest how to exploit the 'per se' and apply for software patents in combination with hardware. Due to several questions on this issue raised by several of us, and also due to written feedback submitted by quite a few others in Delhi meet, they are organizing a stake holders meeting in Bangalore later (in the coming three to four months period) where they are going to settle all the doubts and listen all the points of view. The date of bangalore meeting is not yet announced. Meanwhile, chennai and kolkatta meetings are still going to be held before the bangalore meeting. It is a good idea to send our supporters to both these places, so that the officers must see that there is sufficient opposition to this manipulation. Nagarjuna -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] FSF India Delegation Meets the Union Minister for IT
On Sat, Apr 26, 2008 at 10:45:40PM +0530, Rony wrote: Hello All, I found this information about a meeting between FSF India and the Union IT minister in Oct 2007. http://www.gnu.org.in/node/130 Has the Govt. made any progress in implementing the points raised in the petition? though not overtly, Govt is slowly taking note of the demands from the FOSS community. We need to be alert and keep on communicating to them as and when the occassion arises. if we build a strong community we can do it despite Govt. Nagarjuna -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] google groups without membership: was a list discussing the ICT policy for education
On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 12:26 AM, Raj Mathur [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Saturday 19 Apr 2008, Nagarjuna G. wrote: Those of you who would like to take active role in shaping the ICT policy of India, please join this group and voice your opinions. This group has members from various organizations, and not necessarily from free software community. http://groups.google.com/group/ict-education-india Why Google? It won't let me join the group unless I have a Google account, and it won't let non-Google-members view archives, etc. I presume increasing Google's market worth isn't one of the objectives of this discussion forum. I do not realize till this time that it is not possible to subscribe unless you have a google account. the owner of the group subscribed my gnowlede.org account, so i could not realize and never visited the site nor the archives. Can a person with google account invite a non-member? or does this also make the non-member a member if the invited accepts? Nagarjuna -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
[ILUG-BOM] a list discussing the ICT policy for education
Those of you who would like to take active role in shaping the ICT policy of India, please join this group and voice your opinions. This group has members from various organizations, and not necessarily from free software community. http://groups.google.com/group/ict-education-india -- Nagarjuna G. -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
[ILUG-BOM] BIS committee votes against ooxml
India's BIS votes against ooxml. out of 19 members, five of them did not attend the meeting, one of them abstained, five voted in favor of ooxml, and the rest voted against. -- Nagarjuna G. http://www.gnowledge.org/ -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
[ILUG-BOM] GSoC GNU project
GNU is participating again in the GSoC project. we encourage free software hackers to consider contributing and spending this summer mentoring or joining this event this summer. project ideas are listed at: http://www.gnu.org/software/soc-projects/ideas.html -- Nagarjuna G. http://www.gnowledge.org/ -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
[ILUG-BOM] Fwd: [Free Map] Free and Open Mapping India, A Series of Workshops in February 2008
please read this announcement, and if you want to be part of this, please subscribe to the list so that we can take it forward. http://freemap.in/pipermail/freemap-workshop/2007-December/000150.html Also request you to spread the information. please help us to raise some funds as well so that this event will take off. donations can be sent to Free Software Foundation of India. Nagarjuna -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] article on rediff: linux for visually impaired
On 10/24/07, Vihan Pandey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: IMHO - continuing to live dedicated to a righteous cause and persistently pursuing it no matter what the obstacles are, tirelessly without a vested interested counts as giving one's life and blood. it doesnt - perhaps you are too young to have gone through periods in our nation's history where people *really* shed *real* blood, were tortured, starved and killed for freedom. If you had, you wouldnt spout tripe like this. 'Tis true that i am ``too young to have gone through periods in our nation's history where people *really* shed *real* blood, were tortured, starved and killed for freedom. But perhaps you have forgotten that some people actually bother to read History books and get angry to see mankind repeating its mistakes and misdeeds time after time. Tyranny is tyranny let it be the KGB putting restrictions on who could use the photocopier and for what or governments supporting DRM to suppress what information can be shared and what can't. If we simply choose to ignore what's happening in world like DRM, Software Patents, and Trusted(sic) Computing then things will just get worse. If we don't care and don't bother to do a thing about it - its a carte blanch invitation for corporates and governments to go ahead and do what they want regardless of its merit. K.G, i'm not belittling the sacrifices of our nations freedom fighters. i'm just saying its wrong for us to ignore those who are fighting for freedom and liberty in software and if we have an oppertunity to say something about it - we should. Regards, I had a message from Alpesh (who also went to Chennai with Krishakant) all this is due to the messup with the media. we have both audio and video records of what Krishnakant spoke where the freedom aspect was not only mentioned but underlined. However, the media chose to neglect those issues. Btw, the news also says a person from the city (meaning Chennai), but nowhere did they mention that he went there representing gnowledge.org lab of Homi Bhabha Centre, TIFR. We need to do something to educate the media too. they have no awareness as why we are doing what we are doing. I have been doing the following with the media person: as soon as I start speaking, I tell them, please record. if they do not have a recorder or if they are doing the interview over phone, I request them to send me the story before it goes to the press. else I tell them clearly, you have not permision to mention my name in the paper. Another strategy I use is to ask them to send the questions over email and send them my replies in black and white. This strategy works quite well, though I must admit the media people do not oblige all the time. As soon as we get the video's and audio files in my hand we will upload them. Nagarjuna -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Keynote: a must have information outliner, but....
On 10/24/07, Kamaleshwar Morjal [कमलेश्वर मोरजाल] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi list, well i don't know if this mail is appropriate here but still, i needed help from the Linux community, so here goes: Keynote is a Tabbed notebook and personal information manager, with tree structure and strong encryption; its open source and its free. (free as in free beer as well as free as in freedom :) More info about it here: http://www.tranglos.com/free/keynote.html Earlier I used the outline mode in Emacs, but now I switched to another mode in Emacs called org mode. This is out of the world product inheriting all the power of emacs and is simply a great app. ust try this out. It is an outliner, office application. I write essays, books, plan, agenda items, tables, spreadsheets, track progress and everything. This also keeps the data always in text mode, but interpreted neatly and very fast at the run time. Encryption is always possible in Emacs using gpg, which applies to this as well. It exports the files into html, latex, and others. Considering that it is one of the recent Emacs apps it is gaining more userbase and soon more features will be available. read more about it from orgmode.org. If you want graphical applications consider vym and kdissert. Nagarjuna -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
[ILUG-BOM] india votes against ooxml
India votes against ooxml unanimously. the decision of the committee was to disapprove ooxml with comments. The final meeting took place today after 3pm for about an hour and half, and no voting took place. -- Nagarjuna G. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] mandating source code disclosure for router
On 8/9/07, Siddhesh Poyarekar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 8/8/07, Dinesh Joshi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 2007-08-08 at 19:20 +0530, Rony wrote: If you are not the purchaser, you may not be able to get the SC. The big ISP which buys it in bulk has to request for it. No. If the code is GPLed anyone can demand it. Customer or otherwise. No, you cannot simply get it for free _just_ because the software is GPL'ed. The seller may ask money for it if he wishes. GPL'ed software must be mukt, not necessarily muft. it seems I am missing some thing in the thread. Did anyone did not provide the source code for a GPLd program? Nagarjuna -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
[ILUG-BOM] freed.in
i suggest linking up freed.in at the glug-bom.org site and also explore the possibilities of participating. Anurag, can you add the link and logo at our site. Nagarjuna -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
[ILUG-BOM] setserial and pnpdump
hi, I found out recently that Ubuntu distro does not have setserial, pnpdump commands. I could install setserial later from the archives. the question is, which other alternative exists to configure the serial ports other than setserial. Similarly for pnpdump. any clues will be appreciated. btw: What is the status of the same in Debian GNU/Linux? Nagarjuna -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] [Divert] Are you the Linux type?
On 7/8/07, Mohan Nayaka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: rant Sorry to play the devil's advocate but I think not. I used xemacs and am still trying learn it. It uses keybindings different from so many other editors that it leads confusion when you have to use emacs *and* other editors. For e.g. C-g goes to a specific line number in most other editors, whereas in xemacs it aborts the currently running command or he one being typed. I still haven't found an equivalent to esc:q!enter that is, to exit losing all changes, no questions asked. In xemacs I still have to type yes when emacs asks me whether I want to exit without saving. Of course, I could do M-~ and exit. There is no text copy facility: you have to cut, and paste twice. /rant C-g: read this as Control-god :-). that is what some people say when they repent True. emacs' keybindings are different from other editors. emacs took birth when others did not exist, can't help. But, consider changing them to whatever you like. I heard, though did not try, the new gtk-snapshot of emacs can emulate the common behavior, as well as access to clip board. It is not a good idea to compare vi with emacs, though lot of people try to do it and end up into unnecessary flame wars. vi is indeed an editor, a very good one. I learnt, and it is a must for any one willing to do sysadm. On the other hand emacs is a complete reconfigurable desktop environment, where editing is an option. Indeed, you can emulate vi within emacs. It is easy to get what other applications do within emacs, but what is difficult is to get others do what emacs does. It absorbed every new invention and stood up for almost 30 years. This is one single reason that I never gave up emacs in the last 18 years. To the best my knowledge, nothing is ever invented that can be legitimately compared with emacs, except of course a number of clones of emacs. Nagarjuna -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] [Divert] Are you the Linux type?
On Fri, Jul 06, 2007 at 02:44:04PM +0200, Shakthi Kannan wrote: Hi, On 7/6/07, Kenneth Gonsalves [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: emacs - harley davidson, owners spend more time tuning it than actualy going anywhere - a monster to control On the contrary, my ~/.emacs is only 15 lines. I don't spend time customizing it, at all. Just use it for development. emacs: while on the drive, even on a highway, can reconfigure and morph into another car at the speed of thought. -- Nagarjuna G. -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Firefox Community Event + July LUG Meet
On Fri, Jul 06, 2007 at 10:31:50AM +0530, Nirav Mehta wrote: Dear All, I wrote last week about the Firefox Community event happening on 14th July. The event is now rescheduled to 21st because Seth and JT will be attending Open Source Conference in A'bad on 13th and 14th. The plan for the day remains the same. We will be able to accommodate limited people - only 25 - so would like to get your confirmation. If you will be attending the event, please email me: nirav dot mehta at magnettechnologies dot com. Is it a good idea to limit the participants. We can solve this problem by changing the venue. We can do it either at IIT or at HBCSE. -- Nagarjuna G. nagarjun @ gnowledge.org www.gnowledge.org -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] [FOSS] Video Archives
On 6/21/07, Roshan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: List, RMS[1] was in Mumbai last year in August. (27th August 2006, to be precise). A session was organized by FSF-India and GNU/Linux User Group of Mumbai, on Free Software, Free Knowledge and Free Society. This year, President of FSF-I Georg Greve[2] was in Mumbai and delivered a talk on Free Software and Science (on Thursday, 7 June 2007). 1. Does anyone from the list, has the video archives of the above two sessions? 2. Can they be shared and re-distributed? we have uploaded the video at http://www.gnowledge.org/georg-greves-talk-on-free-software-and-science. Nagarjuna -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] [FOSS] Video Archives
On 6/21/07, Roshan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: List, RMS[1] was in Mumbai last year in August. (27th August 2006, to be precise). A session was organized by FSF-India and GNU/Linux User Group of Mumbai, on Free Software, Free Knowledge and Free Society. This year, President of FSF-I Georg Greve[2] was in Mumbai and delivered a talk on Free Software and Science (on Thursday, 7 June 2007). I have an audio recording Georg's talk, and our colleague also has a video recording of this. We will soon upload, and send a link to the list. And also a link will be posted at gnowledge.org site. Nagarjuna -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
[ILUG-BOM] Colloquium on FREE SOFTWARE AND SCIENCE
Colloquium on FREE SOFTWARE AND SCIENCE by Georg Greve, President, Free Software Foundation Europe On Thursday June 7, 2007 at 3:30 pm Venue: V G Kulkarni Auditorium, HBCSE ABOUT THE TALK FREE SOFTWARE AND SCIENCE Free Software and science share common roots, and benefit society in several similar ways. In his talk, Mr Greve will explain the concept of Free Software and how it relates to maintaining our scientific basis as a society. As a practical example of this collaboration, the talk will give a brief introduction of the Science, Education and Learning in Freedom project, in which the Homi Bhabha Centre for Science Education, Tata Institute of Fundamental Research plays a crucial role. The talk will close with an overview of how all of this relates to the global political trends of knowledge monopolisation, and the Access to Knowledge initiative. ABOUT THE SPEAKER Georg C.F. Greve President, Free Software Foundation Europe In early 2001, Georg Greve initiated the Free Software Foundation Europe (FSFE, FSF Europe), the first Free Software Foundation outside the United States of America and the largest transnational Free Software Foundation so far. Construction and coordination of FSFE as European non-governmental organisation, as well as its integration and coordination in global context was the focus of his work in the past years. Georg writes in the Brave GNU World, a monthly column on free software published on the Internet in as many as 10 languages, and in international magazines including the German Linux-Magazin. The range of Georg's activities spanned areas like technology, politics, society, and economy as well as classical management. Among other things, Georg Greve was invited as an expert to the Commission on Intellectual Property Rights of the UK government or represented the coordination circle of German Civil Society during the first phase of the United Nations (UN) World Summit on the Information Society (WSIS) as part of the German governmental delegation; he also furthered networking the Civil Society working groups on European level as well as for the thematic working group on Patents, Copyrights, Trademarks (PCT) and Free Software. All are welcome. How to reach the venue and contact details are available from: http://www.hbcse.tifr.res.in/Data/ObjectType/c/contact/viewObjectType Nagarjuna G. -- Nagarjuna G. http://www.gnowledge.org/ http://www.hbcse.tifr.res.in/Data/Objects/n/nagarjun/viewObject -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Re:A meet next week
On 6/4/07, Kenneth Gonsalves [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 02-Jun-07, at 6:17 PM, Dinesh Joshi wrote: On Fri, 2007-06-01 at 21:34 +0530, Easwar Hariharan wrote: Can't we make it to the 10th,a weekend?Even 9th would do..And please no location confusion this time around... I second that. Please make it after the 9th. i third that as i well also be there on 9th and 10th well our guest is not around till 9th/10th unless you want to go to Kolkata or Kerala. the meet must happen before 7th. Nagarjuna -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Re:A meet next week
On 6/2/07, Easwar Hariharan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Where's Nagarjuna?He's got to take the call regarding when and where the meet will take place. Georg is here in Mumbai only between 4-7. Therefore, weekend meeting may not be possible. We are trying for a venue at IIT. as soon as I hear something positive from IIT will get back to the list. Nagarjuna -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
[ILUG-BOM] A meet next week
My collaborator in the SELF project, and President of FSF Europe, Georg Greve, will be visiting HBCSE, TIFR next week, from monday to thursday. He is in India from 3rd June till 15th June. He leads the free software movement in Europe. He was to come for the SELF Conference during February, but due to problems with planning he could not make it. Please let me know which day should we have a meeting in Mumbai. And friends in other locations, let me know if you like to invite him for an event, we can explore a possibility. more about him at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georg_C._F._Greve SELF Project http://selfproject.eu -- Nagarjuna G. -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] wireless mesh at hbcse successfully done
jtd wrote: Etch for one. Ubuntu, knoppix. Should we sync to a debian repository. if any of you already downloaded them, please dump them on the server. particularly if it is a dvd.. for a cd, we can dowload again. Nagarjuna -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] wireless mesh at hbcse successfully done
Mrugesh Karnik wrote: On Monday 09 Apr 2007 17:57:32 Nagarjuna G. wrote: installed a package called 'freifunk-dnsmasq', restarted it. Now we see an additional parameter on the web interface called OLSR-DHCP: This is where we give the DHCP share of the mesh network (not the lan network). thats it. I need some details. This entire thing now works only on the WLAN interface right? Is the LAN completely out of the picture? So, the backend itself gets broadened? Maybe subnetted, depending on the DHCP server(s). Secondly, without the dnsmasq package, can we get the native udhcpd to work with the OLSR interface? I think we can.. What's the OLSR interface that shows up with ifconfig? It is possible, I think, to manually configure the DHCP server to listen on the OLSR interface. The problem, I think, wasn't with the missing package, but with the fact that we had DHCP running on the WLAN interface instead of the OLSR interface. The native DHCP should work perfectly fine if I'm right... unless dnsmasq has some features I don't know about.. What you are saying and what you did last time are correct. Without the package we can achieve what we wanted. But instead of making changes on each node, they made it simpler by making an addon package, and also helping the dumb users to specify the dhcp range of wlan by providing OLSR-DHCP. It was not an add on package for an older freifunk firmware, but only in the current one. I guess they did it for space reasons, for you cant make the firmware bigger after a limit. I dont know if they have other reasons. Nagarjuna -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] wireless mesh at hbcse successfully done
jtd wrote: The OLSR i/f is for the backbone routing. running dhcp on this will open a new can of worms requiring dhcp forwarding etc. we have to think that the mesh administration as similar to an ISP spreading its network. If an ISP baught a fixed number of IP's from its ISP, then they have to either allocate the existing IPs dynamically through dhcp or statically by allocating one to each customer. What OLSR is doing is dynamically calculating the routing for each neighborhood of the mesh. Similarly, in a mesh what we have to do is to distribute the backbone WLAN network IPs, the way we want. So, I think, each mesh manager must adopt a policy. If we use 10.0.0.0 network with mask 255.0.0.0 as the WLAN network. For us these are the addresses that we can use. We can give for each router say 16 clients (or even less) that is good enough. Some one may calculate how many routers and clients are possible. If we have to increase the number of routers, we do have to decrease the number of clients. But, since clients can also be connected by parallel LAN, the network can expand quite a lot. As of now this is how I am understanding the mesh setup based on the last three weeks of experience. someone may correct me if my understanding is wrong. Nagarjuna -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] wireless mesh at hbcse successfully done
On 4/10/07, Mrugesh Karnik [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hmmm. How was the additional package installed? #ipkg update #ipkg install 'package-name' very simple. If the router is not connected to the net, we can scp the package file and install it too. Nagarjuna -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
[ILUG-BOM] wireless mesh at hbcse successfully done
Hi all, particularly those who attended the workshop on 31st March and 1st April, and last saturday Rony, Jtd resumed the work. Status: Last saturday we successfully managed to get the mesh working. Actually the mesh works out of the box like a charm. We only used several of our legacy skills and actually wasted lot of time. But at the end every moment spent was useful. We now know exactly what to communicate to others who wish to setup such a mesh (mess ;-) successfully. The dhcp on wireless was not working as of Saturday, but today afternoon I tried based on a reply from the olsr-users mailing list. Again it worked out of the box. What I did: installed a package called 'freifunk-dnsmasq', restarted it. Now we see an additional parameter on the web interface called OLSR-DHCP: This is where we give the DHCP share of the mesh network (not the lan network). thats it. Now we have a working mesh in the campus. I will write documentation here: http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/WirelessMesh. Please add to everything I missed out. I will also upload few screen shots so that new teams setting it up will find it useful. Next step: Prepare a server (Rony contributed a server) and dump useful resources there for community use. Next time, gluggers can walk into our campus and sit in our lounge with a laptop and takeaway what the server has. If we get a list of goodies that the community needs we will begin archiving them. So send such a request to [EMAIL PROTECTED] we will download them during the night time and leave it one the server. Nagarjuna -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] OLSR @ HBCSE
jtd wrote: On Sunday 01 April 2007 01:18, Mrugesh Karnik wrote: Also, apparently OLSR traffic happens on UDP port 698. That is useful so we can now check traffic flowing on 698. On Sunday we got dhcp running on the wireless lan (which it seems is not the same as lan ) and internet access after running some iptables rules for forwarding. enabling firewall does not seem to execute the firewall script. I left at this point. Could someone brief us on what followed. firewall comes up automatically if the WLAN and LAN are on different networks. the script first checks if they are on the same net, if not iptable rules are added. after this, Internet also works fine. threfore, the script that I added manually need not be used at all. we are almost close to getting the mesh working. very likely this saturday we will achieve what we wanted to achieve. nagarjuna -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Windows Vista restricts GNU GCC apps to 32 MB
Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: On 31-Mar-07, at 1:01 PM, Vihan Pandey wrote: I use ARM GCC and SDCC on window XP. This list can be pro Linux but definitely not anti Window. Policies of the company that made that system make very difficult NOT to be anti windoze. pro or anti is irrelevant - since doze is not open source, we cant do anything about defects. So why waste our time complaining about it? If you have paid for vista and cant compile something this list is not the place to complain ... It is clearly a matter of concern if free software like firefox, openoffice, GIMP, inkscape, blender etc are compiled for Vista, and if they don't take full advantage of the system due to restriction of the OS. User's will assume that free software works less efficiently, without understanding that the cause is due to their digital restrictions management. Let us remember that most of free software today is inter operable, except of course the kernel Linux. Nagarjuna -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Wireless Workshop at HBCSE
Rony wrote: Also, when does the actual installation take place? Before 5:30 pm or does it start at 5:30 pm? I want to attend when the installation takes place. The venue itself is available after 5.30 pm onwards. there is some communication gap here. I said the venue is available after 5:30 on working days, mon-friday, but on sat and sunday the lab can be used for hacking free software the whole day. I have already reached the lab, thinking somebody is here. Prasanta told me that the the meeting is scheduled for 5:30pm. OK. since we do have some research to do, those of you who wanted to come, and would like to come early, drop in as soon as possible. Nagarjuna -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Fwd: Scilab Workshop
On 2/17/07, Pradeepto Bhattacharya [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, On 2/17/07, Debarshi 'Rishi' Ray [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: but the source is available - so far better than matlab. God save us from purists Use GNU Octave (http://www.gnu.org/software/octave/). Stay away from both Matlab and Scilab. I don't want to get into this battle but still I always fail to understand is such blanket statements which makes no sense to me. Do you watch TV? Do you use a cell phone? Do you listen to music on a music system? Do you ever use a ticket vending machine ( if you get a chance to do so, like when you are in BOM )? Do you ever use a car? Do you ever do anything that involves some internal electronics / programming magic so that your work is done? So before using that do you search for a free alternative for such a program/application that can run the gadget and such? Or just go ahead and use it. There was a time when all the GNU hackers were using proprietary kernels, operating systems, and their applications were running on top of them. Today they managed to change the situation, they also showed that a completely free society is not impractical. We all know that that goal is very very ideal, and we may never reach there. However, if we begin to compromise, and begin to adjust, we give way to what we don't want. This act is not interesting to hackers. That is why, whenever such an issue arises, we relentlessly repeat and remind ourselves the objective. As regards, scilab/octave/matlab situation goes: imagine if scilab like Sun's java becomes a free software, it will be embraced by all of us. We are not feeling that we miss scilab, the scilab developers should feel that they are missing us. Their business and reach will increase if scilab becomes free software. This will also reduce the need to redo the things that scilab already did. By releasing it as free software, they will gain. ultimately it is win win situation for both, though not for matlab. However, we should say the same thing to matlab develoopers. We should say, please make matlab free software, so that we will begin using it, we will begin to aclaim it, we will take to every school and college. By the same logic, our demand applies to the cars, vending machines and the entire list that you stated above. We have a equivocal demand, it does not exclude MS. Nagarjuna -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Problem with evince PDF reader and password protected PDF files
Mrugesh Karnik wrote: On Friday 09 Feb 2007 21:04:05 Dinesh Shah wrote: Hi Chetan and Rony, On 2/9/07, Chetan S wrote: Looking at your sources.list you seem to be on dapper. which is an old version of ubuntu. Upgrade your OS to Ubuntu 6.10 (Edgy ). You could get the CDs from anyone on the list. I have activated Universe and multiverse repositories in Synaptic as suggested by Rony. I am able to get xpdf and open the file without any problem. Xpdf did ask for the password. Hmmm. This is just a workaround though. It should be found whether this is a problem with evince. If it is, a bug report should be submitted. I think this is not a bug. Evince does not support password protected pdfs. xpdf is doing the job at least for the last two-three years. Add this as a wishlist at evince project page. Nagarjuna -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
[ILUG-BOM] congratulations and thanks
My hearty congratulations to all of you, who made the gnowledge.org portal launch a great event. let us all continue to make this one of the largest collaborative portals in the world. Though the event marks the end of a project, for those who are in it, it is a beginning. The gnowledge portal team is now ready to take calls to conduct workshops to introduce the new way of organizing a very large amount of free knowledge that already exists on the Internet. Best way to begin is to register at the portal and begin contributing in your area of work. We can all decide together, how to shape this portal in future. Nagarjuna -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Feb Meet and SELF Conference
On 1/24/07, Nagarjuna G. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As a convener of the conference, I can assure you that the list members will enjoy the full day. We do have very eminent speakers, the schedule is now updated with some more details: http://zope.hbcse.tifr.res.in:9673/SELF/conf_schedule.. TIFR and HBCSE are already spending lots of resources, and we also got support from sponsors. That is the only reason why the amount is only Rs. 200/-. And every registered participant will also get a DVD with lots of freeknowledge and a snapshot of the gnowledge.org portal. This event is already heavily subsidized. I have no issues to waive registration fee completely for the members of this list, if some sponser comes forward to compensate this. If there is any possibility I will try my best. This is an event of HBCSE, which supported and sponsored several meetings of GLUG, and this list since its inception, and will continue to do so in future. Meanwhile, please do come for this event in large numbers, Each one bring one, and make this movement a success. Also ask your friends in Puna and Nashik and nearby places also to join. We now have a sponsors to support all student registrations. Registration fee is now waived for all students. please bring identity cards, and also register on line at http://self.gnoweldge.org/. Nagarjuna -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
[ILUG-BOM] Science, Education and Learning in Freedom, and gnowledge portal launch
Conference Announcement A one day conference on Science, Education and Learning in Freedom (SELF) is being organized by Homi Bhabha Centre for Science Education, TIFR on 2nd February 2007, at Homi Bhabha Auditorium, Tata Institute of Fundamental Research, Colaba, Mumbai, India. At this conference distinguished speakers from around the world will talk about free software, free knowledge and open standards, specifically in the context of science and education. On the same occasion, a multilingual community portal (gnowledge.org) of free knowledge for education, developed by the computer laboratory of HBCSE, TIFR will also be launched. A snapshop version of the portal will be distributed on a DVD at the conferencee, which includes offline content of wikipedia.org. The conference will take place from 9am till 6pm, and will have four main sessions. * Inauguration and Launching of the community portal: http://gnowledge.org * Introduction to SELF: Science, Education and Learning in Freedom European Commission Project, http://selfproject.eu * CopyLeft in Science, Education and Culture * Protecting Knowledge: Open Standards and Copyleft The conference is open for registration. Please read the full announcement, list of speakers, schedule, venue, registration details etc. at http://self.gnowledge.org/. Please circulate this information to your friends, put it up on your notice boards. Thanks -- SELF Conference Team Homi Bhabha Centre for Science Education Tata Institute of Fundamental Research -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] what comprises the GNU operating system
On 12/30/06, Siddhesh Poyarekar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 12/30/06, jtd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: irrelevant. You can use the gnu tools, as also tons of other FOSS stuff without a linux kernel. See my earlier mail. Everyone can decide which is more important based on their own logic. Exactly, and on the same lines everyone can decide what they want to name their distribution. I understand that GNU doesn't force anyone, but seems like they would probably withdraw from everything that doesn't have the word GNU. Not true. If the Linux kernel project, and their advocates ever preached software freedom, then the term 'Linux' could have become a symbol of software freedom too. The reason why it is not is because they have expressed explicitly that they don't care about software freedom. That is the crux of the matter. GNU project wants several other free software projects flourish, as long as they talk of freedom. Wikipedia is a good example. They use GNU FDL license, we didn't ask them to call it GNUpedia. In fact the original gnupedia project was abandoned in support of wikipedia (read this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNUpedia) The reason is simple. wikipedia project stands for free knowledge and free software, it is in tune with the GNU manifesto. All the GNU hackers supported Jimmy's project and gave it the required momentum to make it successful. If a project stands for software freedom, name does not matter. That is what JTD said, we are not asking for credit, we are asking to uphold software freedom. Nagarjuna -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] what comprises the GNU operating system
On 12/29/06, Kenneth Gonsalves [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 29-Dec-06, at 11:02 AM, Vihan Pandey wrote: ok - GCC, glibc, bash, binutils, coreutils. That is the GNU operating system. i don't think that would be completely right. GNU is not a production ready operating system(yet). Only with a kernel like Linux, xBSD, etc... can you call it an operating system. Though it is said that when HURD is production ready, that entity can be called the GNU operating system. then what happens to the slogan 'linux is the kernel and GNU is the operating system'? Linux is *a* kernel, in the sense that linux is one of GNU's kernels. Get any free kernel and combine with the GNU system, you get a free *nix operating system. Nagarjuna -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Linus on Linux and the GPLv3
2006/10/10, Abhishek Choudhary [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Well why not Linux/GNU instead of GNU/Linux? Is it some age factor? :) All right, if you use Hurd then probably only GNU or Hurd/GNU! To be clear, show me one machine that runs vanilla GNU. Amusing right - you might think I am a novice who does not know why one needs a kernel! If _you_ do understand the need for a kernel then why emphasize that GNU is an Operating System instead of claiming it to be what it actually is - a wonderful toolchain. GNU is an operating system, and that is why the prooject talks of everything:kernel+userland+toolchain+desktop etc., GNU project is a comprehensive project. The kernel is still taking the first steps, falling now and then, the toddler way. This project did not start now, but in 1984.Why do you say it is JUST a tool chain, when you know that without it no free software can be made, maintained and distributed free. If you use 'JUST a x' to a dispensable thing, you may be right. Prove that it is dispensable. Kernel is indispensable, so we embrace all free kernels. Well then GNU is indeed dependent on Linux, just as the latter is dependent on it. Lets call a chair a chair and a table a table. that is why I called it symbiosis. we are not those who excluded it, the others did so. So tell them dependable core things cannot be excluded. Then why does GPL tend to restrict it? Why are non-English versions of GPL not officially available? (correct me if this is novice Q) Why does GPL not address the issues regarding localisation? Why does GPL take away ones rights to actually write prorietary code derived from it? Suicidal! Because, that kills freedom of others, and does not preserve the existing freedom. If we dont preserve existing GPL code, it does not stay, grow, multiply, and inherit. The restriction in GPL is intended to protect freedom from evaporating. Invention of copyleft is one of the greatest hacks of the last century, which made all this possible. Growth of freedom is possible only in a copyleft culture. In short, to protect the freedom. (Forgive me if I have touched on a painful nerve) There are numerous commercial software vendors who use GNU software in their commercial stuff. For instance HP- UX. All of us who have used it know the extent to which GNU is a part of HP-UX. It suits HP's model. They are a hardware vendor, and make money from hardware more than they do from software. However, think of a small time developer. An individual who has his aspiations, dreams, wishes, and a word in his heart which reads like freedom. If he were to develop a very niche piece of software, he would be forced to make public his source code because he cannot use commercial tool-chain, and is therefore left with GNU, which implies his code falls under the GPL license. Now whose freedom are we talking about??? I am not clear. If he is the original author of the program, then he is free to decide. Please read http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html Please! Lets talk freedom - freedom as in free, lest freedom becomes the next f-word! Look at the 95% of our population to whom all of this discussion just does not make any sense. No not because it is not relevant, but because it is in English! That is why, let us work hard to localize all applications to Indian languages, then 65% people will have potential access. it!! Still not. Come on get down to producing some real work now. Probably instead of keying in useless comments and counter comments, concentrate on keying in at least a few lines of code. You will certainly be helping FSF a lot more that way. And indeed if you also do something for the 95% (which many of you involved in Indic localisation are actually doing), then trust me you will also have done a lot of good towards Freedom. You are right, that is why I contribute to Indic-computing, as well as to another GNU project (GNOWSYS). Other projects that I contribute to are gnowledge.org, gnoware.org, the Indic fonts (Gargi, Samyak) and supervising several others. There are others in this list too who are active contributors. True, working is more fun. Nagarjuna -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Linus on Linux and the GPLv3
2006/10/10, Devdas Bhagat [EMAIL PROTECTED]: This is not the case with Linux. GNU tools sit at the same status as other applications. For most people, the GNU tools don't even matter, they run other applications. Most of the userland tools can be replaced with busybox too. Busybox doesn't give you a compiler, libraries. I dont agree that GNU sits with other applications. Other applications don't exist without GNU. *Can you explain how they can exist without GNU?* If this dependency is claimed falsely, I will correct myself. In fact most of the applications, including GNU exist without Linux, because they can depend on other kernels. I am not. I am reading it specifically as a branding issue, where the FSF is actually losing ground by insisting on the term GNU/Linux. No one part of the userland should claim dominance over the whole. Your perception that GNU is userland is dubious. In order to prove otherwise, you have to explain the above question. Nagarjuna -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Linus on Linux and the GPLv3
2006/10/11, Devdas Bhagat [EMAIL PROTECTED]: BSD. They require gcc, but everything else is non GNU. As far as I am concerned, GNU is _one_ component of my system. A lot of other components use the GNU toolchain to exist, but practically, if those applications didn't exist, I might as well not use the computer. that is the point. if those application dont exist without GNU, and there is nothing left useful for you on the computer without it, you have proved that GNU is indispensable. However, this is true only if you want to stick to free software. Otherwise GNU is dispensible anyway. So me crediting just GNU would be wrong. IBM/QT/Apache/Artistic/Mozilla/X/BSD/GNU/Linux would be acceptable (off the top of my head, those are the licenses used by software on my system). You are diverting the attention to licenses again. What about all those things that are listed above, do they not depend on gcc for their *free* existence? You may compile them with a non-free ANSI-C compiler, to demonstrate to me that GCC is dispensible. In order to show me your independence from GNU you became dependent on a proprietary thing. That is why I said, GNU is a core contribution for the existence of free software, whatever be the licenses they are all released. This dependency is also for the Linux kernel, and other free kernels. As most of you know C is the core of any Unix. They are born together. This dependency is a factual relation, it is either true or not. Why hesitate to tell the truth? It is possible to write a program, release it under some other license, but you are still depending on GNU. Licenses dont tell you the dependencies. If the dependency is true, GNU is the core of the userland, not just one of them. If the dependency is true, why hesitate to credit the core contribution. So, my thesis is, dispensing GNU will also take away your freedom. Nagarjuna -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Linus on Linux and the GPLv3
2006/10/10, Devdas Bhagat [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On 10/10/06 15:20 +0530, Nagarjuna G. wrote: snip it everywhere. So, the GNU community feels betrayed when the community at large speaks excluding the name as well as their ideology. So I say Linux and put code out under the terms of the GPL v2. We wish this symbiosis is sustained as well as acknowledged. How else to do that than GNU+Linux? See above. The problem with GNU/Linux is that it excludes everyone else. There has been an immense contribution from BSD, MPL, Apache, Artistic and other licenses in the code which makes Linux useful. So we either acknowledge them all, or none of them. why not, we do have GNU/NetBSD, GNU/KfreeBSD. Mozilla, and Apache are application projects therefore donot fit to be called operating systems. We dont give all the application names in the operating system. They are very useful parts of the full system, just as bash, emacs, GNOME, KDE, OpenOffice.org etc. are. You are trying to read it as a licensing issue, it is not. GNU community did untiringly requested all other licenses to make them compatible with GPL, or dual license them, in the interest of user's freedom. Lot of projects do this, e.g. openoffice.org, Perl. Several projects' licenses have been modified, and became compatible with GPL, eg. ZPL, PPL, APL. But, it is unfortunate that people read this interest as FSF's interest, as if FSF's interest is not in their interest. But, why not work in favor of FSF's interest, if FSF's agenda is to protect your and my freedom. When we are requesting people to adopt GPLv3, it is not to snatch anything from from you, but to prevent it from getting snatched. Nagarjuna -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Linus on Linux and the GPLv3
2006/10/10, Mrugesh Karnik [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Tuesday 10 October 2006 16:19, Nagarjuna G. wrote: GNU community did untiringly requested all other licenses to make them compatible with GPL, or dual license them, in the interest of user's freedom. Lot of projects do this, e.g. openoffice.org, Perl. Several projects' licenses have been modified, and became compatible with GPL, eg. ZPL, PPL, APL. But, it is unfortunate that people read this interest as FSF's interest, as if FSF's interest is not in their interest. Tell me something. Some people who are 'fans' of GNU, go to such lengths as to call all the software that's been licensed under the GPL, GNU software. Now if I write some software and use GPL for it, I'd most certainly not be willing to accredit it to GNU. Why should I? This is just your assumption, who is asking any one to credit GNU for a non GNU project? The system is indeed GNU system with Linux as a kernel. When the kernel was completed, the only thing you need is to add is the GNU system to make it an OS. And the kernel was also completed using GNU tools. Under such a situation, why do you think we are asking for a thing that we didn't deserve? Like Linux said, Authors matter. By using the term GNU/Linux, it seems as though Linux is just a part of the GNU project. It is not. Just because someone uses your tools to build their own software does not mean that you own that software. If you have such issues, don't let people use the tools. But again, that goes against freedom, doesn't it? GNU doesn't own any software, GNU is software. GNU is not a person, not a company, so the ownership issue doesn't arise. What I hate about you FSF people is that you try and steal credit. You just said the same thing again... Use GNU in the name? WHY? Make up a name that highlights freedom, _very very clearly_. GNU is a name that highlights software freedom. It is historically embedded in the semantics of the term, and is a symbol of software freedom. You are using very harsh terms, 'hate', 'steal'. We embraced linux, we didn't hate. We are not trying to steal credit, we are asking for what we deserve. I think that's fair. Clearly states that Linux is a separate project. GNU/Linux does not do that. GNU and Linux are separate projects. If you say, + says that better than /, please do so. We are only saying please don't omit GNU. But, why not work in favor of FSF's interest, if FSF's agenda is to protect your and my freedom. When we are requesting people to adopt GPLv3, it is not to snatch anything from from you, but to prevent it from getting snatched. Highlight request. I agree with Linus. If the kernel developers think that GPL 3 is no good for the kernel, so be it. Let it be under GPL 2. Why create an issue? Highlight request. Never did FSF force. But, we have a right to request again, and may be again. We want to inform about the danger of loosing software freedom, that is our project, we will do it relentlessly. But will never force, and we never did. Isn't it fair enough. On the one hand there are requesting people, on the other hand there are those who say, go and make your own kernel. We never even said once, go and make your own compiler and tools. Please dont do that, it is not necessary. It will be stupid to do that. And GNU will not make another monolithic kernel, if it will make a kernel, it will be HURD. If you dont want to call the system GNU + Linux, that is your choice, but next time I find you saying only Linux when you meant not merely the kernel, we will relentlessly request. Request is not force. It is not a threat. We will repeat, relentlessly. It is our recurring demand from the community ever since we were cheated for not giving the credit we deserve. We love recurrence for more than one reason---mind you GNU is a recursive acronym---for we knew that freedom is such a goal. The loop in the life will end when we get freedom, till then we are not tired of living. Nagarjuna -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Linus on Linux and the GPLv3
2006/10/8, Dinesh Shah [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi! On 10/8/06, Devdas Bhagat [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Indeed... The question is can software be used for activism? and even bigger question is should it be used for activism? It's called the Free Software Foundation. I know. I had posed those couple of questions and seeking the opinions of LUGers (GLUGers?). :-) Getting those opinions are quite important and should lead to healthy discussion. Good UI or technology is not really scarse. What is scarse is awareness that freedom of the users is important. Several of you are spreading the use of Linux[sic] among your friends, families. That is really good work. But when you did that you are spreading it as technology, saying we can do this, as well as this, and without viruses etc etc. This does work in a pragmatic society. Seeing this strategy working we feel this is sufficient, but no. It is not difficult for a proprietary vendor to adapt the power of a free operating system and wrap it up with applications and devices embedded with DRM (digital 'restrictions' management). E.g. Apple. What will be your argument in support of Linux[sic] as against Apple? When govt offices, schools and colleges all over the country are given free copies of M$, what will be your argument in favour of Linux[sic]? Technical problems can be solved not only by us, by them as well, it is not difficult for M$ to fix virus problem if they want to. What they have no interest in fixing is the user's freedom, for it effects the degree of profits they can earn. As long as user's are not aware of this they will continue to exploit user's ignorance and rule the world. The alternative is, along with the best technology, which we have, Linux, Mozilla, Apache, Xorg, ... and last but not least GNU. The last one is not just a technology, but a way of life. As long as you dont add this technology embedded with activism, you will not have any argument against the two possibilities I raised above. That is why if we promote GNU we will have won our freedom. The name matters, because of the philosophy associated with it. GNU is not just a idealogy, it is indeed very practical, it is the indispensable bedrock of the systems that we are using. We have to make best technology that is free of proprietary encodings and DRM embedded devices. Our systems will invite parasites if we dont protect our software with GPLv3. It is a minor fix to take care of the current vicious environment. I am sure we may need future revisions to take care of the continuing struggle for software freedom. Nagarjuna -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] [Fwd: LinuxThane 2006]
On 10/1/06, Anurag [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Forwarded mail from Mr. Abhijeet. This event is propogating wrong history. I had about a month back written to them, they did not correct. May be they need more pressure from the community to accept the correction. This is what their site says: Linux is a free Unix-type operating system originally created by Linus Torvalds, at the University of Helsinki in Finland (ComputerScience), with the assistance of developers around the world.Developed under the GNU General Public License, the source code for Linux is freely available to everyone. The above lines were taken from www.linux.org, which is also incorrect. Nagarjuna -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Re: GPL Violations: DLINK bites the dust
On 9/26/06, jtd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tuesday 26 September 2006 12:26, krishnakant Mane wrote: On 26/09/06, jtd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dlink was one of the crooked companies that violated the gpl and was taken to court by Harold Welte. They lost the case. Their defence shows their crookedness and greed. Dlink contended that linux indulged in price fixing by keeping price at zero and hence was indulging in monopolistic behaviour. Therfore by magic Dlink was allowed to violate the terms of the GPL. The court said that irrespective of the allegation of price fixing, Dlink ceased to be a licencee of the gpl if it violtates any clause of the gpl. who was indulged in price fixing? who is linux? was the company talking about the linux community? or linus him self? The details are not clear as yet cause the original complaint and the judgement is in German. this is an open appeal to all the community: if you know any cases where GPL is voilated, FSF India can take up the case, and if the case is in other countries we can ask our sister orgaanizations to take it up. Nagarjuna -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] GPL Violations: DLINK bites the dust
FSF India will use its office to know more about the case reported, and will make sure that software freedom is protected. will follow it up with Mitul. Nagarjuna -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
[ILUG-BOM] Fwd: Response to Charles Assisi's Article
-- Forwarded message -- From: Nagarjuna G. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sep 1, 2006 3:49 PM Subject: Response to Charles Assisi's Article To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dear Editor, This is in response to the article No Free Lunches for Me written by Charles Assisi, Times of India, 31th August 2006. The author is either 'blind' or irresponsible or both. If this article were written by a newbie journalist, I would not have reacted this way, but Charles Assisi is a known name, also because he interwiewed me once or twice. He may be a popular technical writer, he may claim that he was once a socialist now a capitalist, or he was once convinced about free software but not now anymore etc. This style of writing informs some readers that the author has experienced both worlds and then writing with experience. What this journalist lacks, now I realize after reading the article, is a sense of responsible journalism. He is essentially reacting to the decision Kerala Govt is going for free software in place of proprietary software. The only reason that he says free software should not be used is because it is backed by a very good ethical principle of sharing and nice guys finish last. So this irresponsible journalist is asking people to be bad guys and finish first. If this wasn't the message, what was it? Let me demonstrate how blind this journalist is. First: he assumes that nice guys don't finish. The already successful operating system, the only competitor for the proprietary software today, is the GNU/Linux operating system with a large number of applications for almost every purpose, including computing in Indian languages. If this operating system is not complete, how is this system being used by millions all over the world. Which concept of computing does this operating system does not implement, except possibly viruses, that the system be declared unfinished? The system is not only finished, several millions all over the world use it exclusively. That is not to say that the system is not evolving, it is evolving at a pace that people already began to call it a revolution. The second point of the argument made by the author is that it does not feed programmers, or why would software programmers work for free software without incentive. Again, this is entirely baseless. Save one major company, which other major company does not use or depend their business on free software? If there is no money why did RedHat, Novell, IBM, Sun Microsystems etc. ventured to business by supporting free software. Even the exceptional major company, saved above, is known to use whatever is borrowable from the free software world. True, free software business doesn't happen by selling what is essentially and eminently shareable entity called code. But, people who make money in free software make money by providing various services: making a free software accessible in the form of distributions, helping in installation, customization, maintenance, documentation, training and so on. In the case of propreitary software both the things happen, namely selling what is not sellable, as well as servicing. In free software only one of them is possible. Therefore it is true that one cannot make as much money as one would make with propreitary software. The reason why free software community chose to give up on the additonal profit is due to ethical committment, to live a moral life. A lot of service business in propreitary software also happens by providing service to fix vulnarabilities, such as software viruses, which were fixed by free software by choosing a secure multi-user file system. It is an open question: Why wouldn't a proprietary company doesn't fix a fixable vulnarabilty? It is true that several hackers (not crackers) who contributed to free software were hobbyists and worked out of their free time and without much in expectation. That is because they were intervening in a system that is ridden with evil practices. They are sacrifycing their time to give the world and its people freedom, a better and healthy place to live in future. No freedom movement will win without sacrifice. This jounralist is pleading the Govt and people not to go for free software because good things never win. What a hopeless irresponsible suggestion? He writes: Take away their incentive to create it and the world will have fewer peices of software to work with. The author assumes that their incentives were taken away, which is a baseless. If you ask the users of proprietary software, who created the application they are using, they will be mum. You ask the same question to the users of free software, they will tell who the original contributors are. Even if they are ignorant, may be they didn't pay attention to it, they can find out by visiting their favourite search engine and will answer in a jiffy. In the case of proprietary software, even if you give them the library and also the Internet, it is very
Re: [ILUG-BOM] RMS in Mumbai
On 8/16/06, jtd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wednesday 16 August 2006 04:25 pm, Dinesh Joshi wrote: On Wednesday 16 August 2006 03:40, Rishi wrote: It was only that day, I realized - Free and Open Source software were quite different - The word 'free' in Free software was about freedom and not price So in my case the ideology happened after 5 years of using the software. :-) In essence, Free software and Open Source software mean the same thing. They dont mean the same thing all though they refer to the same body of software. I wish to add something here, something I learned in my graduate courses in Philosophy some 12 years ago. There is an expression called 'evening star', and another called 'morning star'. They both refer to the same thing, namely the planet, venus. Since this object appears first to the naked eye, and is very bright that can be seen even before dark, it is called by this name. The expressions have different meanings, but the same reference. But the name 'Planet Venus' clarifies that it is not a star, but planet, and the notiion of what astronomical objects are planet are well defined. Similarly, the terms 'free software' and 'open source' are very different in their meaning, but they refer to more or less the same set of software with very minor excpetions. Most people think that 'open source' is clear in meaning while 'free software' is confusing. This is because we tend to add our own meaning from other meaning of what is free and what is software, without realizing that this term is not derived by combining these two terms. The term ' free software' is a well defined technical term, i.e., any software that has the four freedoms (0,1,2,3) is a free software. This definition is as good as the criteria given to planet, which helps us to arrive at an unambiguous class of software that are give users the four freedoms. 'Open source' on the other hand is defined by the set of licenses that are approved by OSF as open source. A few of the licenses that are declared OS are not FS. Therefore there is some difference in the reference too. The criteria applied for FS are more clearly defined than OS. FS definition therefore is more scientific than the OS. Therefore the difference in meaning is more than the difference in reference. Another way to look at the issue is: take the terms 'energy', 'work', 'force' in physics. They all have common meaning in folklore. If we think they have the same meaning in science as in folklore just because they are spelled similar, we are wrong. the terms in physics are technical terms, well defined by operational conditions/criteria. Similarly, the FS is a technical term though the terms are taken from folklore, they are re-defined. Nagarjuna -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
[ILUG-BOM] [OT] An appeal
(If you are a commmon member of the lists to which this email is sent, you get more than one copy of this mail, sorry.) As many of you know FSF India is organizing GPL V3 Conference at Bangalore, (http://gplv3.gnu.org.in). The response to the conference was overwhelming, and we already recieved registrations beyond the capacity. We thank you all for the enthusiastic response. Due to recent increased security restrictions on both International and national airlines, some of our guests were diverted to other less restrictive airlines which allowed laptops and books. Making these alternative arragements to our guests caused doubling of the expenses, and cancellation expenses. In some cases refunds were also not possible. As a result FSF India does not have these extra funds at this moment. We thought of bringing this to the notice of free software community, and explore the possibility of support. This is an appeal to contribute to FSF India. Since we do not have enough time to make alternative arrangements we seek your active support at this needy hour. Even if the support is small from each of you, if more people give a small sum, we will be able to make sure this will happen. The additional required budget is around Rs. 150,000/- (or around $3000/-). If you also know any one who could sponsor a ticket or part of the ticket do let us know. The conference registration was kept free and we thought we could manage well with our earlier budgets. Conference registration continues to be free, but do consider sending donations. You may also consider becoming taking fellowship (http://www.gnu.org.in/fellowship). http://www.gnu.org.in/donate#account FSF Account information: Free Software Foundation of India. Acc No : 63202698 Bank : HDFC Bank LTD. Branch : Trivandrum. FSF India have 80G status under Income Tax Act. All donations to FSF India are tax-deductible (by order number: C. No 302/ADIT(E)/24/2005-05 Dated: 25/01/06 ). Please note that, for the time being, we are unable to accept donations from outside India. Thanks Nagarjuna -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
[ILUG-BOM] SELF project at HBCSE, TIFR
The forwarded mail informs about the project that HBCSE, TIFR will be part of in promoting free software and generating documentation. If free software hackers are intersted in joining the team please send me a mail off the list, with a note saying in what way can you contribute. The link http://www.selfproject.eu/ and http://www.selfproject.eu/kickoff provides more info. Nagarjuna - Forwarded message from Wouter Tebbens [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 18:10:35 +0200 From: Wouter Tebbens [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Self-l] Completely booked SELF Conference in The Hague (10 july) To: SELF mailinglist [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], General SELF mailinglist [EMAIL PROTECTED] Organization: ISOC-SELF User-Agent: KMail/1.9.1 Many of you have been there on this very inspiring first SELF Conference and kick-off of the project. For those of you who have missed it, find here a short summary, and links to presentations on the website: http://www.selfproject.eu/kickoff On Monday the 10th of July Internet Society Netherlands organised in The Hague a completely booked conference about Free Software and education and how the creation of open content revolutionizes our societies. Vice-mayor of the City of The Hague, Frits Huffnagel opened the day with an inspiring speech about the need for innovation through the use of Free Software Speakers were amongst others: * Jan Willem Broekema (OSOSS) * dr. Nagarjuna G. (project leader Knowledge platforms Homi Bhabha Center for Science Education, India) * Georg Greve (president FSF Europe, Germany) See his bio or download presentation PDF * Mathias Klang (project leader Creative Commons Sweden) * David Megias (coordinator Master Free Software UOC, Spain) * Wouter Tebbens (Internet Society Nederland, project leader SELF) Besides there were panel discussions with national and international experts, like prof. dr. Paul Klint (CWI), drs. Marja Verstelle (Leiden University), Joep van Nieuwstadt (Exin), Jonas ?berg (Free Software Foundation Europe), Martijn Verver (VPRO New Media), Thijs Chanowski, Michael van Wetering (KennisNet), Leo Besemer (ECDL), Tom Dousma (SURF) and prof. Kees Stuurman (University of Tilburg). The event marked at the same time the official launch of the ambitious SELF project that will setup an international platform for educational and training material about Free Software and Open Standards with the financial support from the European Commission. The focus of the platform is on material about Free Software and knowledge creation about open standards. ISOC.nl leads the international consortium with strong partners from the rest of Europe (amongst which some universities and the Free Software Foundation Europe), India and Argentina. S.E.L.F. stands for Science, Education and Learning in Freedom. This first SELF Conference was supported by the Open Source agency from the Dutch goverment, Programme OSOSS, the city of The Hague and the European Commission. ___ Self-l mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.selfplatform.org/mailman/listinfo/self-l_selfplatform.org - End forwarded message - -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Skype on Linux
On Sat, Jul 22, 2006 at 01:01:24PM +, Dinesh Joshi wrote: Hi guys, I've installed Skype-1.2.0.18 on my FC2 system. It worked out of the box. But the problem is that voice breaks a lot to such an extent that a decent conversation becomes impossible. I am NATed behind my own router. I've forwarded all ports above 1024 and allowed UDP on them. I have 64Kbps connection but the latency is high on my connection. I get more like 48-56Kbps speeds. As I understand Skype isn't very bandwidth efficient. Can someone point me to a better VoIP software or some hacks so that Skype plays nicely with my connection? Skype is not free software. Shouldn't we be using ekiga instead? Nagarjuna -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Need techies to demonstrate Ubuntu Dapper at Bombay Press Club
On Fri, Jul 07, 2006 at 05:02:48PM +0530, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: On 07-Jul-06, at 9:59 AM, Nagarjuna G. wrote: increasingly graphics oriented they should move to cinepaint, which works exactly like GIMP but has color separations, and support for high resolution support needed for print industry. sounds good, must investigate As far as inkscape is concerned, it beats illustrator and corel draw in producing SVG images a W3C standard for 2D vector graphics. Though it also has features, and is best GUI I have seen in any free software application so far, while talking about them we should never forget to tell them that its use is recommended since it produces an ecoding of the document in an open standard so that it works in all applications. PDF support in inkscape is also very impressive. cool, i can just see myself bidding for a job against adobe illustrator and corel draw artists with an inkscape presentation and explaining to hime that he should accept my bid because it produces quoteSVG images a W3C standard for 2D vector graphics/quote. It is this kind of approach that sets our movement back so much. You are mistaken. Govt of any place in the world has no defense, not any company for not complying with open standards. this is working very well. Do use this whenever you try to lobby or advocate for FOSS. i spent my morning arguing with a govt committee - all other things equal, they should choose the foss alternative. They refused - level playing field is all we can give you, they said. Fair enough, on a level playing field we are winning on so many levels, servers, programming tools, etc etc. Print, design, publication and some other fields we cant yet win on a level playing field. So lets accept it for the time being and work to improve rather than try to sell 'political correctness'. We saw where political correctness led the country in the second half of the last century. I have no idea what you are indicating. it is of no use talking without being specific. Nagarjuna -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Need techies to demonstrate Ubuntu Dapper at Bombay Press Club
On Tue, Jul 04, 2006 at 06:33:57PM +0530, bombay news wrote: Dear linuxers, The Mumbai Press Club is the latest to join the Linux bandwagon. The Club is providing a platform to demonstrate the benefits of Ubuntu Dapper to journalists in the city. Need volunteers to help break media persons into linux and other open source software like Scribus and GIMP the equivalents to Quark Express and Photoshop that are the main tools of the profession. It should be not take more than an afternoon and evening during a weekend (Friday/Saturday). Those interested may drop in a line at journoshiv (at) gmail.com so that we can work out a schedule. It this is happening after 14th of July I can volunteer. Nagarjuna -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Need techies to demonstrate Ubuntu Dapper at Bombay Press Club
On Wed, Jul 05, 2006 at 06:09:25AM +0530, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: On 05-Jul-06, at 1:47 AM, Devdas Bhagat wrote: On 05/07/06 01:07 +0530, Steven Joseph wrote: Hi , I'd be more than happy to volunteer for this, I have not used these tools but i have sound knowledge of the ubuntu system. Please stop top posting. I suspect though that someone with more experience in those tools would be better in this particular case. A Scribus/GIMP expert would be more suited to answer questions than an Ubuntu expert (since this is going to be a rather distro independent issue). and although i hate to rain on the parade, it is going to be a hell of a job convincing journalists that gimp, inkscape, scribus are the 'equivalent' of quark express, corel draw, adobe illustrator ... I have done such demonstrations. I never try to tell them that gimp, inkscape are equivalent of the stuff mentioned above. How can a free software application be ever treated equavalent to a propreiary software. The entire perception is misleading if we turn the discussion like this. This will only make the journalists continue to look at FSM as a technological alternative. So the objective of this event should not be merely be about technology per se. At the same time, let me warn that GIMP is not for print industry. But it can be used profitably for newspaper since the resolutions required are not very high. However, currently since newspapers are increasingly graphics oriented they should move to cinepaint, which works exactly like GIMP but has color separations, and support for high resolution support needed for print industry. As far as inkscape is concerned, it beats illustrator and corel draw in producing SVG images a W3C standard for 2D vector graphics. Though it also has features, and is best GUI I have seen in any free software application so far, while talking about them we should never forget to tell them that its use is recommended since it produces an ecoding of the document in an open standard so that it works in all applications. PDF support in inkscape is also very impressive. i dont have sufficient expertise to comment on scribus. Nagarjuna -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Asterisk on top of Wireless Mesh
On Mon, Apr 17, 2006 at 03:56:44PM +0530, Debarshi 'Rishi' Ray wrote: Well, this could be interesting, infact we can organise for something more interesting by then. How about having a handon with Asterisk running on top of Wireless Mesh ? I am very interested. If you could have it sometime in June, it would be very nice. This is very good idea. There is some experience of this in Sridhar Iyer's lab in IIT Mumbai. Since we have very little work to do on this mesh, we can get the asterisk experiment can be the next one to plan. This is going to be very useful for rural communication scenario. Nagarjuna -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] FW: [OT] - OSS Philosophy Explained
This is a reply to the entire thread so far, so not quoting any of them. I wish to clarify the difference by example, between OSS and free (swatantra/mukta/ajadi) software. Take 'Pine', an email client, releases source code, you can modify the sources, but can't distribute the changes you make according to pine license. Such a software is open source according to OSI. So, opening is not enough, we need the freedom to distribute the changes we make. Similarly 'scilab', a scientific application, is open source but not a free software. Therefore, all free software is open source, but not vice versa. So, free software is a proper subset of open source software. However, the number of open source applications that are not free software is very very tiny. So, it is also correct to say MOST open source applications are free software. Count the number of applications, not the number of licenses, to get the correct inclusion relation between them. If, OSI excludes those few applications that do not give the freedom to distribute the changes, then all free software is open source and vice versa. FSF should not change its stand is very clear, if you see how carefully the free software is defined. OSI's definition is left vague. May be business thrives by being vague. Let us ask OSI to modify their license listing policy. The use of the term 'open source' by the OSI may have created a nice term for the tongue, but at the cost of freedom. But, as I told you MOST open source applications do give you the freedom anyway. Still, it is surprising that OSI advocates seldom talk of the values like freedom. They continue to fetch contracts from govt and companies by arguing that oss is economical. Remember, they said they wanted to eliminate precisely this problem when they chose 'open' in place of 'free'. Did they succeed in clarifying? Certainly not. Open source adherents talk of total cost of ownership, while free software people say freedom is always expensive for we need to protect it constantly. That is why I always end my speach with: Run for freedom even if it is expensive! In order to sustain freedom we need to constantly work against the tendencies that try to take away our freedom. Metaphorically, a system must do work to maintain its stability, other wise the system will tend to a state of higher entropy. Free software community is an open system, like a living organism, takes feed from the environment and sustains itself by working against non-free software and those who promote them. I agree with the interpretation that free software is a social, cultural movement with wider implications to the future of human society. open source movement, if at all it is, emphasizes technology and a development model. I have no disagreements with their development model. If only OSI mends their licensing list policy, the differences between free and open source community will become thinner, if not disappear. Nagarjuna -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [SPAM] Re: [ILUG-BOM] a wireless network workshop on 15th
On Thu, Apr 13, 2006 at 03:26:23AM +0530, R. K. Rajeev wrote: Dear Nagarjun, I'm not sure if i can make it on that day, but if i can, i will definitely try to do it. If i can make it, i wanted to know if we could try something different at the same time. I have seen some interesting projects out there, which should allow certain WIFI cards to be configured in linux to act as access points. Maybe, if we could get our hands on a laptop and one of these cards(Or even one with an inbuilt ipw2200, i think it may be supported), can we try adding a linux based Soft-AP to the mesh. It will be an interesting exercise, And also may bring up the possibility of some day building a truly *mobile* mesh, who knows ;) in the mesh setup we are going to make, each card carrying machine will act as an access point. But if you have a different idea, sure we could try that as well. Am i the only one who dreams of a *Hell's Angles(tm)* style OSS bike convoy, with every 15th bike acting as a AP, and every pillion rider surfing the net... just the imaginations of a demented mind... yes, we do want this technology to be taken to buses and trains, if not bikes, so that the vehicles could act as ISPs to the mobile network in the rural India. Nagarjuna -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
