Re: [ILUG-BOM] Red Hat Partners in Mumbai
On Wednesday 20 Aug 2008, Mukund Deshmukh wrote: I hope so too. As mentioned before, I have personally not gone through the program but from the candidates that I have interviewed, I have deduced the insti's are more interested in their incoming (fees) than their outgoing (knowledge and experience). Why blame RedHat only, take any institution, and you will find same story every where. Fresh Electronic Engineers can not identify the leads of a 3 pin transistor. It is indeed a sad status quo of the education system. However, as far as professional certs. are concerned, I beg to differ. RHCE is a professional certification, developed and conducted by Redhat. The purpose of any professional certification is to ensure that a person knows the product and is able to handle it. -- Arun Khan -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Red Hat Partners in Mumbai
On Mon, Aug 18, 2008 at 05:39:11PM +0530, Amit Joshi wrote: Hi, I have completed my engineering and seriously looking at System Administration as a career option. Can you tell me about the career Prospects are good. Training isn't really useful. You might prefer to lurk on #lopsa on Freenode instead. Also see http://www.lopsa.org/ Slightly cheaper. The Practice of System And Network Administration is a good book to start with for a job description. Devdas Bhagat -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Red Hat Partners in Mumbai
Arun Khan wrote: I hope so too. As mentioned before, I have personally not gone through the program but from the candidates that I have interviewed, I have deduced the insti's are more interested in their incoming (fees) than their outgoing (knowledge and experience). :-D -- Regards, Rony. GNU/Linux ! No Viruses No Spyware Only Freedom. -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Red Hat Partners in Mumbai
Mukund Deshmukh wrote: I hope so too. As mentioned before, I have personally not gone through the program but from the candidates that I have interviewed, I have deduced the insti's are more interested in their incoming (fees) than their outgoing (knowledge and experience). Why blame RedHat only, take any institution, and you will find same story every where. Fresh Electronic Engineers can not identify the leads of a 3 pin transistor. Red Hat recommends these institutes on its website. The potential learner chooses those institutes based on faith and the good name of Red Hat. -- Regards, Rony. GNU/Linux ! No Viruses No Spyware Only Freedom. -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Red Hat Partners in Mumbai
The problem is finding the good institute and the proper faculty combo. I have gone through products of practically all the name brand insti's in Mumbai conducting RHCE. i am also willing to join a RHCE course i see on redhat.com and i found a red hat official partner as vibrant technologies at Anheri (west) the study material provide by red hat it self institute where I did the course, the 3 months course got dragged to 9 months. We were migrating from one room to another and almost every they say that a full time course will take only 1 and half month to complete the whole RHCE from basic concept and week-end batch (a day in week) will take 3 month May I ask how much did this place charge per student? they charge 15,000 for RHCE per student any suggestion for me -- sincerely, yogesh Saddest quote of funniest man I like to walk in rain because no one can see my tear -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Red Hat Partners in Mumbai
Hi! Amit, I have completed my engineering and seriously looking at System Administration as a career option. Can you tell me about the career prospects? Its nice to know that we still have engineering graduates among us who think system administration is a challenging field. When I suggest this field to freshers, they usually can't believe that I am sane enough for their further attention. For most of the freshers, learning Java and DotNet are the ultimate goals in computing career. True system administrators will be in demand as long as companies keep using computer systems. It would be interesting to know what the term _True_ means here. System administration, in general, requires following skills: 1. Understanding how hardware works. You don't have to be a wizard in digital electronics. But you need to be familiar with terms like SATA, PATA, Routers, Modems, USB1, USB2 etc. Basic understanding of functionalities of various components in a computer system is a must. 2. Knowing how to program. If one opts for system administration to remain in the IT field, even if he/she lacks programming skills; then it is a bad choice. You can't administrator multiple systems in a smooth way without doing some sort of automation. The tasks like getting a failure notice via SMS, automatic backup of data at odd hours of nights, detection of some intrusion etc. do require programming. Though various tools are already available to carry out these tasks, one can't create a tool generic enough to solve all the problems possible in a setup. So the skills of _glue programming_ is necessary. On Unix/GNU-Linux you need to learn bash, perl or Python etc. For Windows administration, you need to know VB script, perl/Python or power shell for scripting purpose. 3. Knowing various software components used in the system. As a system administrator, one needs to know how to set up various services required in a company. It is necessary to understand how various services are provided. One needs to know how mail sytem works, how DNS and DHCP functions etc. Ability to set up mail servers, file and print servers, Active Directory/LDAP, document repository etc. is a must for a sysadmin. Sometimes one needs to set up additional tools for project management, time tracking, knowledge base management, wikis etc. As a system administrator, one needs to know how to set up and configure these tools. Also required is the skills to fix problems as and when they are detected. Without a proper understanding of underlying components, it would be easy to feel helpless when your users ask you to solve their problems. 4. Knowing how to manage stress. System administration is a stressful job if you are providing service to large number of users. One needs to know when to say _no_ and how to say it. Managing people and their needs is one of the most important part of system administration. The idea is to provide smooth services even when the system and the admin both are under stress. Usually point 1 can be taught to a person. Except point 3, the other ones are generally inherent in people. These things are difficult to teach but may be easy to learn by looking at others' examples. Point 3 requires some good experience. I am yet to see a coaching class where they teach everything required to master point 3. Also, I am thinking about taking the RHCE exam. I am not able to spot much training institutes in Mumbai, CMS Computer Institute and Gates Training being the only ones I have been able to come up with. After observing the computer institutes in Bombay for over a decade; and after teaching in some of them many years back, I can safely say that you can only learn 10 to 20% of required skills in any institute. The best way to learn is to experiment on your own computer system. It is a long and tortuous route. But it is the best one leading you to be a _true_ sysadmin:) Since you are fresh out of the college, no one is going to take you to administer their critical systems. The best bet for you is to join some company as a trainee and learn the secrets of the trade for next two to four years. That experience will be counted to get a fat pay check afterward. People with good sysadmin skills are always in demand. I have seen many who earn more than those so called _real programmers_ of similar experience level. But one thing to remember is that, sometimes programmers can fake it, but not the sysadmin. You do need to know the internals of the systems you manage. Wishing you a challenging and enjoyable career in system administration. Raghu -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Red Hat Partners in Mumbai
Arun Khan wrote: On Monday 18 Aug 2008, Rony wrote: institute where I did the course, the 3 months course got dragged to 9 months. We were migrating from one room to another and almost every time we had to load the OS over the last batch's other OS installation. The first 2 modules were very nicely explained with good practical time. The last module was taken in short time by another faculty and it was more of a demo where more than 15 people jostled to view a single monitor where sever setup was demonstrated. May I ask how much did this place charge per student? The least the insti could have done is rent a projector so that all could see the demo. IIRC, one of the conditions for becoming a Redhat training partner is to provide proper training facilities and hands on practical time. 15K for 3 modules. IMO, the self motivated individuals are better off spending the tuition money in buying hardware and learning it on their own. At least in this case they will not be jostling for lab time with others. Self learning helps specialize in a particular topic but for overall knowledge gain from almost ground level, a course within a fixed time works better. However even after the course, there is a lot more to learn on one's own and the individual would be in a better position to find his way around. -- Regards, Rony. GNU/Linux ! No Viruses No Spyware Only Freedom. -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Red Hat Partners in Mumbai
On Tue, Aug 19, 2008 at 11:44 PM, Rony [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Arun Khan wrote: On Monday 18 Aug 2008, Rony wrote: institute where I did the course, the 3 months course got dragged to 9 months. We were migrating from one room to another and almost every time we had to load the OS over the last batch's other OS installation. The first 2 modules were very nicely explained with good practical time. The last module was taken in short time by another faculty and it was more of a demo where more than 15 people jostled to view a single monitor where sever setup was demonstrated. May I ask how much did this place charge per student? The least the insti could have done is rent a projector so that all could see the demo. IIRC, one of the conditions for becoming a Redhat training partner is to provide proper training facilities and hands on practical time. 15K for 3 modules. I agree that it would be a better idea to spend money on buying new hardware instead of joining an Institute. But I think there are some units in those modules where you have to learn Networking with a cluster of systems. It won't be easy to do that at home, although I am aware of various network simulation softwares available these days. Are there any suggestions regarding learning the networking part of the exam at home? Regards, Amit. IMO, the self motivated individuals are better off spending the tuition money in buying hardware and learning it on their own. At least in this case they will not be jostling for lab time with others. Self learning helps specialize in a particular topic but for overall knowledge gain from almost ground level, a course within a fixed time works better. However even after the course, there is a lot more to learn on one's own and the individual would be in a better position to find his way around. -- Regards, Rony. GNU/Linux ! No Viruses No Spyware Only Freedom. -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Red Hat Partners in Mumbai
yogesh kunjir wrote: they say that a full time course will take only 1 and half month to complete the whole RHCE from basic concept and week-end batch (a day in week) will take 3 month If you have the time then a full time course will keep you in daily sync. With weekend courses, after a whole week, it takes some time to catch up and stay up to date. However it differs form person to person. If possible find out the students from the earlier batch of the institute to know how their course progressed. -- Regards, Rony. GNU/Linux ! No Viruses No Spyware Only Freedom. -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Red Hat Partners in Mumbai
On Tuesday 19 Aug 2008, Amit Joshi wrote: I agree that it would be a better idea to spend money on buying new hardware instead of joining an Institute. But I think there are some units in those modules where you have to learn Networking with a cluster of systems. It won't be easy to do that at home, although I am aware of various network simulation softwares available these days. Are there any suggestions regarding learning the networking part of the exam at home? Virtualization, there are several options. virtual box (open source edition) is fairly easy to setup and comes with fairly good documentation. On a system with with say 2GB RAM and a Dual Core 2.0GHz CPU, you could very well run 2 virtual machines for a total of three including the host system. It may not be possible to simulate every network scenario on such a setup. On networking, an excellent intro book is The Linux Network Administrator's Guide, Second Edition by Olaf Kirch and Terry Dawson available here http://www.tldp.org/guides.html HTH, -- Arun Khan -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Red Hat Partners in Mumbai
Arun Khan wrote: On Tuesday 19 Aug 2008, Amit Joshi wrote: I agree that it would be a better idea to spend money on buying new hardware instead of joining an Institute. But I think there are some units in those modules where you have to learn Networking with a cluster of systems. Learning under a skilled faculty is very helpful as the student gets to ask a lot of questions and doubts which are best explained verbally with examples and interactive dialog. A lot of off topic knowledge is also gained in the process. It won't be easy to do that at home, although I am aware of various network simulation softwares available these days. Are there any suggestions regarding learning the networking part of the exam at home? Virtualization, there are several options. virtual box (open source edition) is fairly easy to setup and comes with fairly good documentation. Virtual box and its siblings can give a tough time to experienced people too. It has bugs in the vital networking part itself. A better option is to form a small group and pool hardware together and do actual networking. Group learning is very motivating and works wonders. If a faculty can be roped in, then even better. BTW, I hope Red Hat is reading this thread and takes proper action to improve the quality of their education. The way people are narrating their experiences, it is in a very sorry state. -- Regards, Rony. GNU/Linux ! No Viruses No Spyware Only Freedom. -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Red Hat Partners in Mumbai
From: Amit Joshi [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [ILUG-BOM] Red Hat Partners in Mumbai prospects? Also, I am thinking about taking the RHCE exam. I am not able to spot much training institutes in Mumbai, CMS Computer Institute and Gates Training being the only ones I have been able to come up with. Can you please comment on the teaching quality of these computer institutes and such stuff?-- I know onw Guy who teaches linux very well and in depth. His name is Mr. Rajeev Banerji. He lives in Vashi. He explains Basics of Linux in very nice way. However currently he is taking rest because of got Heart Attack. He will recover in next 2 months. So if you can wait, you can wait for 2 months but again I am not sure he will conduct class again.. Regards NeeleshG LINUX is basically a simple operating system, but you have to be a genius to understand the simplicity -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Red Hat Partners in Mumbai
On Wednesday 20 Aug 2008, Rony wrote: Virtual box and its siblings can give a tough time to experienced people too. It has bugs in the vital networking part itself. A better option is to form a small group and pool hardware together and do actual networking. Group learning is very motivating and works wonders. If a faculty can be roped in, then even better. Pooling hardware is a good idea. We can do Form area wise local LUG is a good idea I have been toying with the same in the Bandra-Andheri area and looking for space. The main drawback I perceive is lugging the heavy towers to the location. BTW, I hope Red Hat is reading this thread and takes proper action to improve the quality of their education. The way people are narrating their experiences, it is in a very sorry state. I hope so too. As mentioned before, I have personally not gone through the program but from the candidates that I have interviewed, I have deduced the insti's are more interested in their incoming (fees) than their outgoing (knowledge and experience). -- Arun Khan -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Red Hat Partners in Mumbai
I hope so too. As mentioned before, I have personally not gone through the program but from the candidates that I have interviewed, I have deduced the insti's are more interested in their incoming (fees) than their outgoing (knowledge and experience). Why blame RedHat only, take any institution, and you will find same story every where. Fresh Electronic Engineers can not identify the leads of a 3 pin transistor. Warm Regards, Mukund Deshmukh, Beta Computronics Pvt Ltd. 10/1 IT Park, Parsodi, Nagpur -440022 India. Web site - http://betacomp.com Meet us at Booth I102, Taipei PLAS 2008, Sept 18-22 , Taiwan. -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
[ILUG-BOM] Red Hat Partners in Mumbai
Hi, I have completed my engineering and seriously looking at System Administration as a career option. Can you tell me about the career prospects? Also, I am thinking about taking the RHCE exam. I am not able to spot much training institutes in Mumbai, CMS Computer Institute and Gates Training being the only ones I have been able to come up with. Can you please comment on the teaching quality of these computer institutes and such stuff? Looking forward to your replies. Regards, Amit. -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Red Hat Partners in Mumbai
On Monday 18 Aug 2008, Amit Joshi wrote: Hi, I have completed my engineering and seriously looking at System Administration as a career option. Can you tell me about the career prospects? Also, I am thinking about taking the RHCE exam. I am not able to spot much training institutes in Mumbai, CMS Computer Institute and Gates Training being the only ones I have been able to come up with. Can you please comment on the teaching quality of these computer institutes and such stuff? Looking forward to your replies. Over the last year, I have interviewed several candidates from the various Mumbai training institutes conducting RHCE curriculum; not a single candidate scored more than 25% in a 40 question quiz, based on the RH033 book, that I conducted. IMO, you would be better off buying some decent hardware, install CentOS (equiv. to RHEL), experiment with virtualization (to simulate multiple systems) and learn the RHCE curriculum on your own. -- Arun Khan -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Red Hat Partners in Mumbai
Arun Khan wrote: On Monday 18 Aug 2008, Amit Joshi wrote: Hi, I have completed my engineering and seriously looking at System Administration as a career option. Can you tell me about the career prospects? Also, I am thinking about taking the RHCE exam. I am not able to spot much training institutes in Mumbai, CMS Computer Institute and Gates Training being the only ones I have been able to come up with. Can you please comment on the teaching quality of these computer institutes and such stuff? Looking forward to your replies. Over the last year, I have interviewed several candidates from the various Mumbai training institutes conducting RHCE curriculum; not a single candidate scored more than 25% in a 40 question quiz, based on the RH033 book, that I conducted. IMO, you would be better off buying some decent hardware, install CentOS (equiv. to RHEL), experiment with virtualization (to simulate multiple systems) and learn the RHCE curriculum on your own. Doing an RHEL course provides an overall understanding of OSs, networking, storage media etc. and for someone who wants to learn all this in a limited span of time, it is very beneficial. The third semester (module 3, servers) is the important one and that is where a good institute and proper faculty will make the difference. At the institute where I did the course, the 3 months course got dragged to 9 months. We were migrating from one room to another and almost every time we had to load the OS over the last batch's other OS installation. The first 2 modules were very nicely explained with good practical time. The last module was taken in short time by another faculty and it was more of a demo where more than 15 people jostled to view a single monitor where sever setup was demonstrated. The tall ones had to stand behind all the shorter ones and that made the screen text hardly visible. -- Regards, Rony. GNU/Linux ! No Viruses No Spyware Only Freedom. -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Red Hat Partners in Mumbai
On Monday 18 Aug 2008, Rony wrote: Arun Khan wrote: Over the last year, I have interviewed several candidates from the various Mumbai training institutes conducting RHCE curriculum; not a single candidate scored more than 25% in a 40 question quiz, based on the RH033 book, that I conducted. IMO, you would be better off buying some decent hardware, install CentOS (equiv. to RHEL), experiment with virtualization (to simulate multiple systems) and learn the RHCE curriculum on your own. Doing an RHEL course provides an overall understanding of OSs, networking, storage media etc. and for someone who wants to learn all this in a limited span of time, it is very beneficial. The third semester (module 3, servers) is the important one and that is where a good institute and proper faculty will make the difference. At the Indeed, don't disagree with the concept. The problem is finding the good institute and the proper faculty combo. I have gone through products of practically all the name brand insti's in Mumbai conducting RHCE. After probing some of them, I found out what you have listed below - little or no hands on practicals, some not even following the course material the way it is presented in the RHCE books. institute where I did the course, the 3 months course got dragged to 9 months. We were migrating from one room to another and almost every time we had to load the OS over the last batch's other OS installation. The first 2 modules were very nicely explained with good practical time. The last module was taken in short time by another faculty and it was more of a demo where more than 15 people jostled to view a single monitor where sever setup was demonstrated. May I ask how much did this place charge per student? The least the insti could have done is rent a projector so that all could see the demo. IIRC, one of the conditions for becoming a Redhat training partner is to provide proper training facilities and hands on practical time. IMO, the self motivated individuals are better off spending the tuition money in buying hardware and learning it on their own. At least in this case they will not be jostling for lab time with others. -- Arun Khan -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
