Re: [WSG] Semantics of P element (?)
Kenny Graham napisał(a): I cant seem to find anything Div is generic block.. not generic block of text. Agreed, I worded it badly. It can contain non-text, but doesn't have to. In most cases it groups block elements as for grouping inline there are other dedicated elements as span which is inline itself (so it should be used between inline content) and p block element (so it should be used between block elements) for grouping inline text content. http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/global.html#edef-DIV - see first example over there I'd argue that the example on that page is much more of a paragraph than a date is. XHTML2 is apparently going to fix paragraphs so that they can contain lists, as that example tries to do by using an unclosed p. This example is up to SGML not XML so paragraph element doesn't need to be closed. If it's not closed it doesn't mean that author want to include all of the following elements within. In this example paragraph ends before table starts. Paragraph is just separated text content.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paragraph and mind that html is not sophisticated word processor..were paragraph may have more stricter meaning. More precisely, it says it's a self-contained unit of a discourse, and the same website defines discourse as In semantics, discourses are linguistic units composed of several sentences. I'm not sure I completely agree (some paragraphs are only one sentence long, for instance), but surely a paragraph element has more semantic meaning than to separate bits of text from one another, as used to be done with unclosed ps and brs. Semantics for XHTML p element is same as for HTML p element and it was always bad practice to use br's to separate blocks of text in articles (as it is automatically and more naturally achieved when using p elements) Also this pages sounds logically to me (while they're not html specs): http://big.faceless.org/products/report/docs/tags/tags/div.html http://big.faceless.org/products/report/docs/tags/tags/p.html I disagree with most of that article. It says headers and blockquotes are subtypes of paragraph elements (where do they get this from?), that all text must be inside paragraphs (what about lists?), and that if you don't enclose text, it's enclosed in an anonymous p tag, inserted by the XML parser itself. Parsers do enclose some text in anonymous block elements, but they're not paragraph elements. By 'subtypes' I understand that for e.g. if we wouldn't have header element then p element would be most accurate for header text and this is logical to me. This way I put date into p element.. as there's no dedicated element for date and it is text content. Anyway I wonder how it really should be treated.. (I'm not 100% positive that my approach is right) or maybe both way are semantically valid to treat p as I do and more strictly as you do.. However due to lack of clear statement on it in w3c specs I doubt that there is a clear answer for that. -- Mariusz Nowak Skype: mariuszn3 AIM: mariuszn3 WWW: http://www.medikoo.com XHTML/CSS Coding: http://cxc.medikoo.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] ie-only hack
On Sat, Dec 16, 2006 at 09:48:58PM -0800, Paul Novitski wrote: I believe the reason it's an ie-only hack is that standards-compliant browers won't apply the selector .ie-only.foo to any element because no element has both classes ie-only and foo div class=foo ie-only This element has both classes /div -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] ie-only hack
David Dorward wrote: On Sat, Dec 16, 2006 at 09:48:58PM -0800, Paul Novitski wrote: I believe the reason it's an ie-only hack is that standards-compliant browers won't apply the selector .ie-only.foo to any element because no element has both classes ie-only and foo div class=foo ie-only This element has both classes /div That's the way I saw it at first too, but in fact there would be no ie-only class plugged anywhere in the markup. It'd only appear in the styles sheet. I think it's a rather smart hack... BTW, do we know if it works in IE Mac too? --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG CMS] RE: digest for cms@webstandardsgroup.org
Wow! Never seen this list so busy. You dthink it was Xmas or something. :) Good to hear warnings. If it is not too much trouble, could you expound on that statement a little? Not too much. Simply that the learning curve is often quite steep and that proprietary templating engines don't help this. The forum for each CMS, if one exists, is indeed the best place to look for hired help. Happy holidays all! ** Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] **
Re: [WSG CMS] RE: digest for cms@webstandardsgroup.org
Paul Noone wrote: Wow! Never seen this list so busy. You dthink it was Xmas or something. :) Hehe, yeah, it is nice to see some action. :) Not too much. Simply that the learning curve is often quite steep and that proprietary templating engines don't help this. Ah, I see. Thanks for heads-up. :) The forum for each CMS, if one exists, is indeed the best place to look for hired help. Sounds good. Happy holidays all! You too! Many thanks for your help Paul, I greatly appreciate it. And thanks to everyone else, this list has been a life saver. :D Have a great new year, Cheers, Micky -- Wishlist: http://snipurl.com/vrs9 Switch: http://browsehappy.com/ BCC?: http://snipurl.com/w6f8 My: http://del.icio.us/mhulse ** Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] **
Re: [WSG] ie-only hack
At 12/17/2006 01:17 PM, Thierry Koblentz wrote:
David Dorward wrote:
On Sat, Dec 16, 2006 at 09:48:58PM -0800, Paul Novitski wrote:
I believe the reason it's an ie-only hack is that standards-compliant
browers won't apply the selector .ie-only.foo to any element because
no element has both classes ie-only and foo
div class=foo ie-only
This element has both classes
/div
That's the way I saw it at first too, but in fact there would be no
ie-only class plugged anywhere in the markup.
It'd only appear in the styles sheet. I think it's a rather smart hack...
BTW, do we know if it works in IE Mac too?
Clever as it is, this hack is mis-named -- it should be:
.browsers-that-dont-support-multiple-class-selectors.foo {...}
It stops being ie-only as soon as Microsoft fixes this particular
bug without fixing others.The reason it's a hack is that it
doesn't actually address the problem directly -- the problem being
IE's box model or whatever other IE bug you're working around with
this selector. It's highly unlikely that this multiple-class
selector hack will ever be used to address the problem of IE not
supporting multiple-class selectors, which is the only context in
which it could be considered good engineering.
I'm with Rob -- use conditional comments if you don't want your hack
to break one or two browser versions from now.It know it seems
like tomorrow will never come, but it will, and when it does (as is
happening even now with IE7) hacks will fail. If you don't think the
web pages you're creating today will still be here in five years, look around.
I am, by the way, the pot criticizing the kettle's soot -- I'm still
weaning myself off * html selectors.
Regards,
Paul
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RE: [WSG] Re: digest for wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Thierry Koblentz wrote: Erwin Heiser wrote: !--[if gt IE 6] link rel=stylesheet href=ie7.css media=screen ![endif]-- !--[if lte IE 6] link rel=stylesheet href=ie6.css media=screen ![endif]-- Why not going with !--[if IE 7] rather than !--[if gt IE 6] That way you don't have to worry about IE 8 :) This is precisely the problem with conditional comments: You don't know in advance if any given bug will be fixed in IE8, so you can't know which conditional you will need. If you get it wrong, and the bug fix is still needed in IE8 (or is not needed in 7.5 !), then you will have to change all your CCs. It doesn't future-proof your code any more than a well chosen CSS hack will, and you will have many more pages to fix. Geoff. == The information contained in this email and any attachment is confidential and may contain legally privileged or copyright material. It is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you are not permitted to disseminate, distribute or copy this email or any attachments. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. The ABC does not represent or warrant that this transmission is secure or virus free. Before opening any attachment you should check for viruses. The ABC's liability is limited to resupplying any email and attachments == *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Re: digest for wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
On 12/18/06, Geoff Pack [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is precisely the problem with conditional comments: You don't know in advance if any given bug will be fixed in IE8, so you can't know which conditional you will need. If you get it wrong, and the bug fix is still needed in IE8 (or is not needed in 7.5 !), then you will have to change all your CCs. It doesn't future-proof your code any more than a well chosen CSS hack will, and you will have many more pages to fix. At least you will know where to look, instead of trying to work out which combination of backslashes and asterisks fixed the particular issue for which version. -- Kay Smoljak business: www.cleverstarfish.com standards: kay.zombiecoder.com coldfusion: kay.smoljak.com personal: goatlady.wordpress.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
