Approval Workflow
Hello Ubuntufolks, I am a member of the Austrian Loco Team. I have a few things to say about the approval work which is done by the council. First of all I want to say, that Ubuntu was a great distribution and still is my favorite one out there. What I think about this approval process is, that a lot of work, from people who really are committed to Ubuntu, is getting bashed. I don´t think that this is the right way and I know that in former times there was nearly no bureaucracy in the Ubuntu community. Everyone worked for the community, not for reapproval, only because they were convinced of Ubuntu and wanted to share this expirience with their friends and in general other people. I know some guys, who have their work, make their studies AND care about the ubuntu project. They do that for free without asking for payment or asking for anything else. Thats why I think that its not fair that a council judge that people. @Loco Council: This is not an attack at you personally. Its my opinion (personal opinion, not an official statement from our Loco) and I think everyone should at least say what he is thinking. Best Regards Philipp Stiegler -- loco-contacts mailing list loco-contacts@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/loco-contacts
Re: Approval Workflow
On 23/07/10 13:52, Philipp Stiegler wrote: Hello Ubuntufolks, I am a member of the Austrian Loco Team. I have a few things to say about the approval work which is done by the council. First of all I want to say, that Ubuntu was a great distribution and still is my favorite one out there. mine too What I think about this approval process is, that a lot of work, from people who really are committed to Ubuntu, is getting bashed. I don´t think that this is the right way and I know that in former times there was nearly no bureaucracy in the Ubuntu community. Everyone worked for the community, not for reapproval, only because they were convinced of Ubuntu and wanted to share this expirience with their friends and in general other people. it isn't about bashing anything it is about making sure everything is going well and sharing ideas and best practices. Approved teams are doing great stuff and can have resources chucked at them from time to time and can be expected to be organised enough to cope with it. Non approved teams can be provided with help in organising themselves. I know some guys, who have their work, make their studies AND care about the ubuntu project. They do that for free without asking for payment or asking for anything else. Thats why I think that its not fair that a council judge that people. great! Their wonderful work should be shown off to the council and, more importantly, the other locos so we can see their awesomeness, and copy what they are doing. Alan. -- loco-contacts mailing list loco-contacts@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/loco-contacts
Re: Approval Workflow
I believe the LoCo Council Team is getting a bad reputation, that is not fair to them. The LoCo Council Team is there to *help* the LoCos with their struggles. After some turnover, they are doing a tremendous job to step by step putting processes in place that in the end help the LoCos. I do not see any attempt, or even unintentional way the efforts of the LoCos or members thereof are bashed. Re-approval is a checklist, any LoCo should do by themselves, doesn't matter if there is a re-approval process or not. Making this a standing process rather helps than hurts, since it comes with help and advice. By no means are LoCo restricted to what they do, or how they do it. A lot of the guidelines are just experiences what has worked before. They are not static, and do not create some kind of test which LoCo who have found a different way to function will fail. Furthermore, the approval by itself is not important for any LoCo to function. Approval has the incentive to be called official and get a little bit more resources from Canonical. This has the advantage for Canonical to be able to be accountable to itself and the Ubuntu community how it uses the resources that are also available in part because of the work of the community. Accountability is not a bad thing. Help is not a bad thing either. It helps to reflect and see where things can be improved to the benefit of everybody. Therefore, I want to say thanks to the LoCo Council Team for the hard work, they are putting in this, and for all the help they have already given our LoCo, and I appreciate that this is a place where I know I get good advice and help when we need it. I hope everybody will see this, and also help, because we are a community helping each other and other. I also hope that it is possible to overcome some of the misunderstanding and perceptions around this issue. Please continue to do you tremendous work! Ralph (txwikinger) On 07/23/2010 08:52 AM, Philipp Stiegler wrote: Hello Ubuntufolks, I am a member of the Austrian Loco Team. I have a few things to say about the approval work which is done by the council. First of all I want to say, that Ubuntu was a great distribution and still is my favorite one out there. What I think about this approval process is, that a lot of work, from people who really are committed to Ubuntu, is getting bashed. I don´t think that this is the right way and I know that in former times there was nearly no bureaucracy in the Ubuntu community. Everyone worked for the community, not for reapproval, only because they were convinced of Ubuntu and wanted to share this expirience with their friends and in general other people. I know some guys, who have their work, make their studies AND care about the ubuntu project. They do that for free without asking for payment or asking for anything else. Thats why I think that its not fair that a council judge that people. @Loco Council: This is not an attack at you personally. Its my opinion (personal opinion, not an official statement from our Loco) and I think everyone should at least say what he is thinking. Best Regards Philipp Stiegler -- loco-contacts mailing list loco-contacts@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/loco-contacts
Re: Approval Workflow
On Fri, 2010-07-23 at 14:52 +0200, Philipp Stiegler wrote: I know some guys, who have their work, make their studies AND care about the ubuntu project. They do that for free without asking for payment or asking for anything else. Thats why I think that its not fair that a council judge that people. Hi all, Just to give a somewhat impartial view on this, because our LoCo Team is still a way off of being approved I think, and this is something we're working towards... 1. I certainly don't think the Council is judging people as individuals, but rather how those individuals come together as a team and organise themselves, which is quite different in my opinion. There may be a number of individuals on a team who are a shining example of commitment and hard work, but this does not necessarily mean that the team is performing well. And when the team does not meet required standards, this is also not necessarily a bad reflection on the individuals who are doing their best. 2. Team accountability and organisation is vital, particularly when additional resources are being given to them, so I personally feel that the approval process is important. I think how this is viewed depends on individual perspectives, but I'm sure it is not intended to discourage people, but quite the opposite; it gives teams something to aim for both initially, and in the long-term. 3. Speaking from the experiences we've had in our team: There have been times when the team has nearly fallen apart, due to lack of enthusiasm and personal clashes among other things. The main reason we have tried so hard to keep things together is obviously for the overall well-being of Ubuntu and the community in our area, but at least one other reason was knowing that we have goals to achieve, including reaching the point where we're ready for approval. Knowing that we're not just doing our own thing and that in the long run we have expectations to meet, is one of the things that has helped motivate us to keep things together. 4. For Teams facing re approval, I think this is just as important. I can think of any number of voluntary commitments that are started with good intentions but never continue or reach completion simply because people have to deal with other issues in their lives and at some point might lose interest. Having to be approved repeatedly ensures that Teams maintain their commitment and continue to deliver results. In summary, I do think that even voluntary groups need a certain amount of policing to maintain standards, but this should be seen as motivation, rather than discouragement. It should encourage us to keep getting better and better, both as teams and as individuals, as we reach for the goals that have been set. Regards, Neil Team Contact Zimbabwe LoCo -- loco-contacts mailing list loco-contacts@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/loco-contacts
Re: Approval Workflow
Phillip, I agree with your point of view. Daniel On Fri, 2010-07-23 at 14:52 +0200, Philipp Stiegler wrote: Hello Ubuntufolks, I am a member of the Austrian Loco Team. I have a few things to say about the approval work which is done by the council. First of all I want to say, that Ubuntu was a great distribution and still is my favorite one out there. What I think about this approval process is, that a lot of work, from people who really are committed to Ubuntu, is getting bashed. I don´t think that this is the right way and I know that in former times there was nearly no bureaucracy in the Ubuntu community. Everyone worked for the community, not for reapproval, only because they were convinced of Ubuntu and wanted to share this expirience with their friends and in general other people. I know some guys, who have their work, make their studies AND care about the ubuntu project. They do that for free without asking for payment or asking for anything else. Thats why I think that its not fair that a council judge that people. @Loco Council: This is not an attack at you personally. Its my opinion (personal opinion, not an official statement from our Loco) and I think everyone should at least say what he is thinking. Best Regards Philipp Stiegler signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature -- loco-contacts mailing list loco-contacts@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/loco-contacts
LoCo on Launchpad
Hi all, This is possibly not the right place to ask, so forgive me if this is the case. I'm doing a review of LoCo Team members who have joined up on our Launchpad page, but haven't been active or visible since. The idea is to follow up individually with each member and find out if they need further information or assistance, and to generally try to lure them in as active members. In several cases, they have not provided a public e-mail address and I have used the contact facility on Launchpad to mail them. However, I've only sent a few messages and am being told that I have reached my quota and need to wait 23 hours before I can contact anyone else. Sending out a few messages a day isn't the greatest way of doing this, so I was wondering if there's any way around this for team administrators? Any pointers would be appreciated. Regards, Neil Team Contact Zimbabwe LoCo -- loco-contacts mailing list loco-contacts@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/loco-contacts
Re: LoCo on Launchpad
Hi Neil! On 23 July 2010 16:29, Neil Coetzer n...@ubuntu.org.zw wrote: This is possibly not the right place to ask, so forgive me if this is the case. Looks like the right place to ask to me! Others might benefit from this discussion. I'm doing a review of LoCo Team members who have joined up on our Launchpad page, but haven't been active or visible since. The idea is to follow up individually with each member and find out if they need further information or assistance, and to generally try to lure them in as active members. What a great idea! In several cases, they have not provided a public e-mail address and I have used the contact facility on Launchpad to mail them. However, I've only sent a few messages and am being told that I have reached my quota and need to wait 23 hours before I can contact anyone else. Sending out a few messages a day isn't the greatest way of doing this, so I was wondering if there's any way around this for team administrators? As I understand it, if the team has no contact address listed at https://launchpad.net/~zimbabwe-team under Team details Email: I _believe_ that when you click 'Contact team' the mail you send goes to _everyone_ on the team. You might want to check that with some launchpad people in #launchpad or maybe someone else here knows. Second option (which is a bit nasty) would be to expire each person and then add them back into the team. When you do that you get a field in which you can put some text. You could put a little apology for the bounce, and some questions or an offer for them to get in touch with you. Last option would be to go and hunt them down via other means :) Look them up on the forums and use a bit of common sense to see if it's the same person. I note the team in question has about 30 people which doesn't seem too many to track down. Maybe someone else has a better suggestion? Cheers, Al. -- loco-contacts mailing list loco-contacts@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/loco-contacts
Re: LoCo on Launchpad
Hi Alan, Many thanks for your reply! On Fri, 2010-07-23 at 16:40 +0100, Alan Pope wrote: As I understand it, if the team has no contact address listed at https://launchpad.net/~zimbabwe-team under Team details Email: I _believe_ that when you click 'Contact team' the mail you send goes to _everyone_ on the team. You might want to check that with some launchpad people in #launchpad or maybe someone else here knows. Problem is, that we maintain our own Team mailing list at t...@ubuntu.org.zw, and not all of the people listed on Launchpad will be on that list, especially if they haven't provided an e-mail address that we can use. Also I really would like to do personalised e-mails if possible. I've found a lot of members are non-technical, and this seems to make them feel intimidated at first, and therefore rather shy... so often we'd get a better response from personal mail on the side, rather than group mail. Second option (which is a bit nasty) would be to expire each person and then add them back into the team. When you do that you get a field in which you can put some text. You could put a little apology for the bounce, and some questions or an offer for them to get in touch with you. This could be an option. Unfortunately some guys haven't registered with their real names, and they might actually be active members that I just haven't tied to the names I'm familiar with (we're small enough and localised enough to rely on face-to-face meetings a lot!). Last option would be to go and hunt them down via other means :) Look them up on the forums and use a bit of common sense to see if it's the same person. I note the team in question has about 30 people which doesn't seem too many to track down. Unfortunately, once again because of our nationally poor Internet connectivity, a lot of these guys (most in fact) don't even feature on the forums. We're possibly the most offline LoCo Team ever :) It's not a huge deal though. As you mentioned, the team is small, so worst case scenario, I'll send out a few messages each day for the next few days :) I just found it a bit odd that the team owner/administrator is limited so strictly on contacting members of the team being administered. Thanks again, Neil -- loco-contacts mailing list loco-contacts@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/loco-contacts
Re: Approval Workflow
My $0.02 CAD... I love Ubuntu. I think the LoCo Council is awesome. Some of my personal hero(in)es live there. I think LoCo's around the world are awesome. Canonical rocks. There! I'm biased and I'm open about it. Having confessed all that, if I were the person in charge, I would be asking the the entire community the following questions: 1) Why aren't there more LoCo's? (Our installed base is ~ 12 million.) 2) What are we doing to encourage LoCo's to sprout up everywhere as quickly as possible? A weak answer to #2 is We're reviewing all the current teams. That's an efficiency/effectiveness answer, not a marketing answer. I think (and have said) that the re-approval process is a good idea but at the wrong time, diverting very talented people (the council and LoCo leaders) into an effort that has a lower return on investment than marketing Ubuntu and ensuring its spread everywhere, i.e. ensuring that Ubuntu crosses the chasm. My humble opinion is that the Ubuntu project has about 12 months to get this right. That's our market window. Let's get very focused on growth. We'll have a day in the future when we can worry about being too big, or having too much market share. Further documentation: Bug reports: 392986) LoCo's Are Not Lo Enough https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+bug/392986 497051) Scarce community leadership resources allocated to non-problems https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+bug/497051 OpenWeek session: Energizing an Ubuntu Community https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/openweekLucid/EnergizeCommunity Cheers, Randall Ubuntu Vancouver LoCo -- On 07/23/2010 08:52 AM, Philipp Stiegler wrote: Hello Ubuntufolks, I am a member of the Austrian Loco Team. I have a few things to say about the approval work which is done by the council. First of all I want to say, that Ubuntu was a great distribution and still is my favorite one out there. What I think about this approval process is, that a lot of work, from people who really are committed to Ubuntu, is getting bashed. I don´t think that this is the right way and I know that in former times there was nearly no bureaucracy in the Ubuntu community. Everyone worked for the community, not for reapproval, only because they were convinced of Ubuntu and wanted to share this expirience with their friends and in general other people. I know some guys, who have their work, make their studies AND care about the ubuntu project. They do that for free without asking for payment or asking for anything else. Thats why I think that its not fair that a council judge that people. @Loco Council: This is not an attack at you personally. Its my opinion (personal opinion, not an official statement from our Loco) and I think everyone should at least say what he is thinking. Best Regards Philipp Stiegler -- loco-contacts mailing list loco-contacts@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/loco-contacts
Re: LoCo on Launchpad
Neil: I think it depends on how you view the LP team -- is it a list of 'active' members or is it just a list of people who are associated with using Ubuntu and your LoCo team. I lean towards the latter and would not require 'activity' in order to be 'listed' on the team. I do have the expiration set to one year which will auto-prune folks who are no longer interested in being listed. Charles NY State LoCo On Fri, 2010-07-23 at 17:29 +0200, Neil Coetzer wrote: Hi all, This is possibly not the right place to ask, so forgive me if this is the case. I'm doing a review of LoCo Team members who have joined up on our Launchpad page, but haven't been active or visible since. The idea is to follow up individually with each member and find out if they need further information or assistance, and to generally try to lure them in as active members. In several cases, they have not provided a public e-mail address and I have used the contact facility on Launchpad to mail them. However, I've only sent a few messages and am being told that I have reached my quota and need to wait 23 hours before I can contact anyone else. Sending out a few messages a day isn't the greatest way of doing this, so I was wondering if there's any way around this for team administrators? Any pointers would be appreciated. Regards, Neil Team Contact Zimbabwe LoCo -- loco-contacts mailing list loco-contacts@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/loco-contacts
Re: Massachusetts: Approval
Martin: Let me know if there is any assistance we can provide. We have a few folks active in the Albany area and perhaps they would be interested in assisting with activities in the Berkshires/Western MA. Charles Lead Contact -- NY State LoCo On Tue, 2010-07-20 at 17:51 -0400, Martin Owens wrote: Hey Everyone, There was a meeting today to decide if the Ubuntu-US-MA local community team should be re-approved. We didn't get re-approved, so we're now an unofficial LoCo team. What does this mean? Well it means that we won't get any more CDs from shipit or other similar resources for our events, we'll have to use what we have or buy what we don't. If we want to get approved again then we'll need to be able to show that this team is active and sustainable at a LoCo council meeting, since we're the only active LoCo team in New England... I think this is important to show that we can be active enough. The LoCo council is fairly new and the re-approval process is going through it's second cycle to make sure that teams are keeping their end of the bargain and making sure people are active and committed to spreading Ubuntu, educating, supporting and just having some fun at various events and online activities. As well as the general lack of activity in the team we also have a bad track record for getting involved with the global activities and initiatives, having members who are visible and know about the wider community, we don't really have any representation at any University or college and don't have any businesses or organisations involved with events. So we need to do quite a bit of work to get on track. The LoCo council have pledged to offer help and idle in the LoCo IRC channel to try and kickstart the team, please make them feel welcome when you see them. Well, it's a pretty sad day for MA, so I'm going to have a little think about it all. Best Regards, Martin Owens, official contact. -- loco-contacts mailing list loco-contacts@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/loco-contacts
New York Expiration and Re-Approval
Hello all: The expiration date and re-approval date of New York State is inaccurate. We were approved on 7-21-2009 - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/07/21/% 23ubuntu-meeting.html The current expiration date is listed as 12-05-2010 - http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-newyork Thanks, Charles Lead Contact - New York State LoCo -- loco-contacts mailing list loco-contacts@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/loco-contacts
Re: Approval Workflow
There were some great thoughts in this thread... I think the LoCo council is doing a good job at ensuring activity and and engagement amongst Local Community Teams. I also think a little more clarity could be introduced to one part of the application. I know for New York State's original approval some 'standards' were loosely defined and caused some hard feelings amongst some members. The specific area is activity level. 1. Activity: The wiki states: What have you done so far? Have you done any advocacy, translations, exhibitions, support or other activities? We recommend you have done at least three activities before you apply for approval. A recent post on the list stated: The team should have demonstrated a significant and sustained contribution to the Ubuntu community, from participating in a ubuntu-related project, documentation, localization, development (bug reports and packaging, marketing, participating in FOSS events, release parties. When New York Stated applied for Approval in early 2009 we had more than three events under our belt, but were told that the LoCo Council wanted to ensure that they saw sustained activity. I think the wiki is too specific and the information posted on the mailing list far superior, but perhaps an improvement would be to say that a team should show a consistent level of activity over the course of six months with at least three of the following events: - Launch Party - FOSS convention booth - Technology convention booth - Community advocacy events - Install Fest - etc - These thoughts are just my .02, but I feel most of the process is clear. This one part is also, IMHO, the most critical in the evaluation and re-evaluation process. Charles New York State Local Community -- loco-contacts mailing list loco-contacts@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/loco-contacts
Re: New York Expiration and Re-Approval
Fixed :) BTW, for future teams -- since this issue had effected 90% of the teams or so, feel free to instead email the loco-council mailing list, or myself Thanks! -Paul On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 6:12 PM, Indigo196 indigo...@rochester.rr.com wrote: Hello all: The expiration date and re-approval date of New York State is inaccurate. We were approved on 7-21-2009 - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/07/21/% 23ubuntu-meeting.html The current expiration date is listed as 12-05-2010 - http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-newyork Thanks, Charles Lead Contact - New York State LoCo -- loco-contacts mailing list loco-contacts@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/loco-contacts -- #define sizeof(x) rand() :wq -- loco-contacts mailing list loco-contacts@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/loco-contacts
Re: Massachusetts: Approval
Hey Charles, Thanks very much, having a stable set of events out there would be most beneficial to the teams balance. Of course so far it's been imbalanced by population and transportation ease in Boston and the area on the East. Could you send your folks over to the meeting on the 5th August 2010 to IRC #ubuntu-us-ma ? Then we can have a talk about it all. Martin, On Fri, 2010-07-23 at 17:29 -0400, Indigo196 wrote: Martin: Let me know if there is any assistance we can provide. We have a few folks active in the Albany area and perhaps they would be interested in assisting with activities in the Berkshires/Western MA. Charles Lead Contact -- NY State LoCo On Tue, 2010-07-20 at 17:51 -0400, Martin Owens wrote: Hey Everyone, There was a meeting today to decide if the Ubuntu-US-MA local community team should be re-approved. We didn't get re-approved, so we're now an unofficial LoCo team. What does this mean? Well it means that we won't get any more CDs from shipit or other similar resources for our events, we'll have to use what we have or buy what we don't. If we want to get approved again then we'll need to be able to show that this team is active and sustainable at a LoCo council meeting, since we're the only active LoCo team in New England... I think this is important to show that we can be active enough. The LoCo council is fairly new and the re-approval process is going through it's second cycle to make sure that teams are keeping their end of the bargain and making sure people are active and committed to spreading Ubuntu, educating, supporting and just having some fun at various events and online activities. As well as the general lack of activity in the team we also have a bad track record for getting involved with the global activities and initiatives, having members who are visible and know about the wider community, we don't really have any representation at any University or college and don't have any businesses or organisations involved with events. So we need to do quite a bit of work to get on track. The LoCo council have pledged to offer help and idle in the LoCo IRC channel to try and kickstart the team, please make them feel welcome when you see them. Well, it's a pretty sad day for MA, so I'm going to have a little think about it all. Best Regards, Martin Owens, official contact. -- loco-contacts mailing list loco-contacts@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/loco-contacts
Re: Massachusetts: Approval
Martin: What time on the 5th? Charles On Fri, 2010-07-23 at 19:51 -0400, Martin Owens wrote: Hey Charles, Thanks very much, having a stable set of events out there would be most beneficial to the teams balance. Of course so far it's been imbalanced by population and transportation ease in Boston and the area on the East. Could you send your folks over to the meeting on the 5th August 2010 to IRC #ubuntu-us-ma ? Then we can have a talk about it all. Martin, -- loco-contacts mailing list loco-contacts@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/loco-contacts
Re: LoCo on Launchpad
On Fri, 2010-07-23 at 17:21 -0400, Indigo196 wrote: Neil: I think it depends on how you view the LP team -- is it a list of 'active' members or is it just a list of people who are associated with using Ubuntu and your LoCo team. I lean towards the latter and would not require 'activity' in order to be 'listed' on the team. I do have the expiration set to one year which will auto-prune folks who are no longer interested in being listed. Charles NY State LoCo Hi Charles, Thanks, and very valid point. While we also have expiration set to one year, many of the members have joined in the last year. We have noticed a trend here where people sign up and sometimes attend one meeting, and then seem to slip through the cracks. So our intention here is certainly not to force people into being active as such, but rather to avoid losing potential contributors simply because we haven't provided them with any necessary information and encouragement. As also mentioned previously, many of the people who are non-technical seem to be intimidated into not contributing because they think their contributions will be less than those who are technical - so this is also a mindset that we are trying to change at the moment, particularly as we feel that marketing is probably the most crucial need in our area right now. And of course, this is just part of a drive to increase interest in the Team, because the consistently active members are unfortunately few. Regards, Neil -- loco-contacts mailing list loco-contacts@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/loco-contacts
Re: LoCo on Launchpad
Dear Niel, Thank you but mail limits are set for spam reasons I am sure. Cordially, Daniel Van`Stone On Fri, 2010-07-23 at 17:29 +0200, Neil Coetzer wrote: Hi all, This is possibly not the right place to ask, so forgive me if this is the case. I'm doing a review of LoCo Team members who have joined up on our Launchpad page, but haven't been active or visible since. The idea is to follow up individually with each member and find out if they need further information or assistance, and to generally try to lure them in as active members. In several cases, they have not provided a public e-mail address and I have used the contact facility on Launchpad to mail them. However, I've only sent a few messages and am being told that I have reached my quota and need to wait 23 hours before I can contact anyone else. Sending out a few messages a day isn't the greatest way of doing this, so I was wondering if there's any way around this for team administrators? Any pointers would be appreciated. Regards, Neil Team Contact Zimbabwe LoCo signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature -- loco-contacts mailing list loco-contacts@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/loco-contacts
Re: Approval Workflow
Thank you Niel, What if you are not an approved Team do you still get any input. Teams that have been Approved such as the Dallas Team from Texas,USA. and Houston Team have activity but are not recognized as part of Ubuntu approved Loco Teams. These Teams show and have shown activity have been active in IRC and have well organized information on several sites. Ubuntu insists on many things but as times change these rules have been interpreted differently by different members of the Ubuntu Community as well as some leaders. But I am not pointing fingers (that is not my point). This sometimes happens as structure and infrastructure grow. The point I first got snagged on was the For the Community catch phrase. In some ways some communities may seem disorganized more than others. Here is why: Education Culture Belief Time Not every member here need possess a PHD from Purdue. Some people spend time on project for the experience (as a Student), or need. If it becomes a burden to Form a Team I believe that is whole heartedly against the intention and meaning of Ubuntu. Yes mentorship and a community backing sounds great but why disqualify Teams unless they don't follow Ubuntu tradition, not policy. I understand that part of it may be a resource issue. That is simple only provide discs when asked a ticket to say I may have 40 people gathering may I request some i.e.-lanyard, discs, stickers . I am no Team Admin or the like, but I wanted to reply. Ubuntu is a good thing. I hope that this didn't offend the ewok masters that be. Cordially, Daniel Van`Stone On Fri, 2010-07-23 at 16:16 +0200, Neil Coetzer wrote: On Fri, 2010-07-23 at 14:52 +0200, Philipp Stiegler wrote: I know some guys, who have their work, make their studies AND care about the ubuntu project. They do that for free without asking for payment or asking for anything else. Thats why I think that its not fair that a council judge that people. Hi all, Just to give a somewhat impartial view on this, because our LoCo Team is still a way off of being approved I think, and this is something we're working towards... 1. I certainly don't think the Council is judging people as individuals, but rather how those individuals come together as a team and organise themselves, which is quite different in my opinion. There may be a number of individuals on a team who are a shining example of commitment and hard work, but this does not necessarily mean that the team is performing well. And when the team does not meet required standards, this is also not necessarily a bad reflection on the individuals who are doing their best. 2. Team accountability and organisation is vital, particularly when additional resources are being given to them, so I personally feel that the approval process is important. I think how this is viewed depends on individual perspectives, but I'm sure it is not intended to discourage people, but quite the opposite; it gives teams something to aim for both initially, and in the long-term. 3. Speaking from the experiences we've had in our team: There have been times when the team has nearly fallen apart, due to lack of enthusiasm and personal clashes among other things. The main reason we have tried so hard to keep things together is obviously for the overall well-being of Ubuntu and the community in our area, but at least one other reason was knowing that we have goals to achieve, including reaching the point where we're ready for approval. Knowing that we're not just doing our own thing and that in the long run we have expectations to meet, is one of the things that has helped motivate us to keep things together. 4. For Teams facing re approval, I think this is just as important. I can think of any number of voluntary commitments that are started with good intentions but never continue or reach completion simply because people have to deal with other issues in their lives and at some point might lose interest. Having to be approved repeatedly ensures that Teams maintain their commitment and continue to deliver results. In summary, I do think that even voluntary groups need a certain amount of policing to maintain standards, but this should be seen as motivation, rather than discouragement. It should encourage us to keep getting better and better, both as teams and as individuals, as we reach for the goals that have been set. Regards, Neil Team Contact Zimbabwe LoCo signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature -- loco-contacts mailing list loco-contacts@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/loco-contacts
Re: LoCo on Launchpad
On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 11:29 AM, Neil Coetzer n...@ubuntu.org.zw wrote: Hi all, This is possibly not the right place to ask, so forgive me if this is the case. Bah, just ask! :) I'm doing a review of LoCo Team members who have joined up on our Launchpad page, but haven't been active or visible since. The idea is to follow up individually with each member and find out if they need further information or assistance, and to generally try to lure them in as active members. What an outstanding idea. I want to know this as well. I did this about a year back. What I did was I removed the Mailing List, and when you are an administrator, you can do Contact All. I then sent mail to everyone and put the Mailing List back in place. If this does not work ( and it might not! ) I'd poke in #launchpad or file an LP Answers, and report back! In several cases, they have not provided a public e-mail address and I have used the contact facility on Launchpad to mail them. However, I've only sent a few messages and am being told that I have reached my quota and need to wait 23 hours before I can contact anyone else. Sending out a few messages a day isn't the greatest way of doing this, so I was wondering if there's any way around this for team administrators? Any pointers would be appreciated. Regards, Neil Team Contact Zimbabwe LoCo Great idea :D Paul -- loco-contacts mailing list loco-contacts@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/loco-contacts -- #define sizeof(x) rand() :wq -- loco-contacts mailing list loco-contacts@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/loco-contacts
Re: New York Expiration and Re-Approval
Is it possible for you or one of the other council members to fix the council's launchpad page[0]? It continues to indicate that the council does not use a mailing list nor is there an email address for contact. Thanks. [0]https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-lococouncilhttps://launchpad.net/%7Eubuntu-lococouncil On Fri, 23 Jul 2010, Paul Tagliamonte wrote: Fixed :) BTW, for future teams -- since this issue had effected 90% of the teams or so, feel free to instead email the loco-council mailing list, or myself Thanks! -Paul -- Chuck Frain GPG Key: B2420431 http://www.chuckfrain.net -- loco-contacts mailing list loco-contacts@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/loco-contacts
Re: New York Expiration and Re-Approval
I gotcha, thanks for pointing that out! -Paul On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 10:12 PM, Chuck Frain chuckfr...@pobox.com wrote: Is it possible for you or one of the other council members to fix the council's launchpad page[0]? It continues to indicate that the council does not use a mailing list nor is there an email address for contact. Thanks. [0]https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-lococouncil On Fri, 23 Jul 2010, Paul Tagliamonte wrote: Fixed :) BTW, for future teams -- since this issue had effected 90% of the teams or so, feel free to instead email the loco-council mailing list, or myself Thanks! -Paul -- Chuck Frain GPG Key: B2420431 http://www.chuckfrain.net -- loco-contacts mailing list loco-contacts@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/loco-contacts -- #define sizeof(x) rand() :wq -- loco-contacts mailing list loco-contacts@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/loco-contacts
Re: Massachusetts: Approval
7:30pm Thu 5th August 2010, #ubuntu-us-ma Web link: http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=ubuntu-us-mauio=d4 Martin, On Fri, 2010-07-23 at 20:13 -0400, Indigo196 wrote: Martin: What time on the 5th? Charles On Fri, 2010-07-23 at 19:51 -0400, Martin Owens wrote: Hey Charles, Thanks very much, having a stable set of events out there would be most beneficial to the teams balance. Of course so far it's been imbalanced by population and transportation ease in Boston and the area on the East. Could you send your folks over to the meeting on the 5th August 2010 to IRC #ubuntu-us-ma ? Then we can have a talk about it all. Martin, -- loco-contacts mailing list loco-contacts@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/loco-contacts
Re: LoCo on Launchpad
On Sat, 2010-07-24 at 02:22 +0200, Neil Coetzer wrote: On Fri, 2010-07-23 at 17:21 -0400, Indigo196 wrote: Hi Charles, Thanks, and very valid point. While we also have expiration set to one year, many of the members have joined in the last year. We have noticed a trend here where people sign up and sometimes attend one meeting, and then seem to slip through the cracks. So our intention here is certainly not to force people into being active as such, but rather to avoid losing potential contributors simply because we haven't provided them with any necessary information and encouragement. As also mentioned previously, many of the people who are non-technical seem to be intimidated into not contributing because they think their contributions will be less than those who are technical - so this is also a mindset that we are trying to change at the moment, particularly as we feel that marketing is probably the most crucial need in our area right now. That is a common issue that I have faced as well. I think it is critical to help people feel valuable. I have attempted to do this by encouraging folks to attend IT related events like Bar Camps and talk about their experiences with Ubuntu. Do you have Linux or Computer User Groups in your area? Perhaps help folks understand that knowing how to create a presentation, while not highly technical, is a desired skill that Computer User Groups would want to know about. Perhaps have them get involved with the Ubuntu Beginners Team -- which seeks to help new users; folks that are experienced users, but not technical gurus will quickly see how much their knowledge can still be useful in a growing and dynamic community. And of course, this is just part of a drive to increase interest in the Team, because the consistently active members are unfortunately few. Regards, Neil Best of luck, Charles -- loco-contacts mailing list loco-contacts@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/loco-contacts
Re: LoCo on Launchpad$
To:loco-contacts@lists.ubuntu.com Dear loco-contacts and other subscribers to this list, In the end it boils down to the view of the Council. While we may each have our belief. The current council works on thier each(8) view The council members https://launchpad.net/~communitycouncil/+members can be reached by sending an email to community-coun...@lists.ubuntu.com I have met many supporters, contributors and have helped others while the whole time learning. I beliee that the community needs more relaxed methods so at a minimum a college class could create a LoCo Team. As many focus on one item it may take focus from the community aspect in a different area. May be that the responsibility of the Team needs another scribe or such to assist them as their duties are great. I personally will not criticize the members of the council, I have never held the responsibities that they have and do. Cordially, Daniel Van`Stone On Sat, 2010-07-24 at 02:22 +0200, Neil Coetzer wrote: On Fri, 2010-07-23 at 17:21 -0400, Indigo196 wrote: Neil: I think it depends on how you view the LP team -- is it a list of 'active' members or is it just a list of people who are associated with using Ubuntu and your LoCo team. I lean towards the latter and would not require 'activity' in order to be 'listed' on the team. I do have the expiration set to one year which will auto-prune folks who are no longer interested in being listed. Charles NY State LoCo Hi Charles, Thanks, and very valid point. While we also have expiration set to one year, many of the members have joined in the last year. We have noticed a trend here where people sign up and sometimes attend one meeting, and then seem to slip through the cracks. So our intention here is certainly not to force people into being active as such, but rather to avoid losing potential contributors simply because we haven't provided them with any necessary information and encouragement. As also mentioned previously, many of the people who are non-technical seem to be intimidated into not contributing because they think their contributions will be less than those who are technical - so this is also a mindset that we are trying to change at the moment, particularly as we feel that marketing is probably the most crucial need in our area right now. And of course, this is just part of a drive to increase interest in the Team, because the consistently active members are unfortunately few. Regards, Neil signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature -- loco-contacts mailing list loco-contacts@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/loco-contacts
Re: LoCo on Launchpad$
Please keep the subject the same as the email thread, this looks like a new thread. 2010/7/24 Daniel Van‵Stone webmas...@catcodesigns.net: To:loco-contacts@lists.ubuntu.com Dear loco-contacts and other subscribers to this list, In the end it boils down to the view of the Council. While we may each have our belief. The current council works on thier each(8) view There are 6 LoCo Council members. The council members https://launchpad.net/~communitycouncil/+members can be reached by sending an email to community-coun...@lists.ubuntu.com I have met many supporters, contributors and have helped others while the whole time learning. Well sure. LoCo Council is ubuntu-lococouncil on Launchpad. I beliee that the community needs more relaxed methods so at a minimum a college class could create a LoCo Team. That is write out. There should be at most one a state. Sub-teams should be just that, sub-teams. Officially, USA should be one LoCo. Rules have been bent, and US States are treated like a country. If we allow anyone to create a LoCo we have to support a *huge* number of groups, and allocate resources ( such as CDs ) in a fair way. As many focus on one item it may take focus from the community aspect in a different area. May be that the responsibility of the Team needs another scribe or such to assist them as their duties are great. I personally will not criticize the members of the council, I have never held the responsibities that they have and do. Cordially, Daniel Van`Stone On Sat, 2010-07-24 at 02:22 +0200, Neil Coetzer wrote: On Fri, 2010-07-23 at 17:21 -0400, Indigo196 wrote: Neil: I think it depends on how you view the LP team -- is it a list of 'active' members or is it just a list of people who are associated with using Ubuntu and your LoCo team. I lean towards the latter and would not require 'activity' in order to be 'listed' on the team. I do have the expiration set to one year which will auto-prune folks who are no longer interested in being listed. Charles NY State LoCo Hi Charles, Thanks, and very valid point. While we also have expiration set to one year, many of the members have joined in the last year. We have noticed a trend here where people sign up and sometimes attend one meeting, and then seem to slip through the cracks. So our intention here is certainly not to force people into being active as such, but rather to avoid losing potential contributors simply because we haven't provided them with any necessary information and encouragement. As also mentioned previously, many of the people who are non-technical seem to be intimidated into not contributing because they think their contributions will be less than those who are technical - so this is also a mindset that we are trying to change at the moment, particularly as we feel that marketing is probably the most crucial need in our area right now. And of course, this is just part of a drive to increase interest in the Team, because the consistently active members are unfortunately few. Regards, Neil -- loco-contacts mailing list loco-contacts@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/loco-contacts -- #define sizeof(x) rand() :wq -- loco-contacts mailing list loco-contacts@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/loco-contacts
