[LUTE] Re: Neoethnobaroquenism?
There are also the suites of Swedish folk tunes for lute and guitar by Jakob Lindberg; I surmise they were written in a similar spirit. Max On 23 January 2011 01:08, Roman Turovsky r.turov...@gmail.com wrote: I have no problem with being taken as contradictory. And I take ethnocentrism as a great antidote for modernism. Having said that: I don't think that is a good reason to pursue ethnocentric composition. I simply love the sounds of the old country too much, and I translate them into the lute-language. I'm sure Paulo thinks the same way. RT - Original Message - From: wikla wi...@cs.helsinki.fi To: Roman Turovsky r.turov...@verizon.net Cc: lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; Nancy Carlin na...@nancycarlinassociates.com Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2011 5:44 PM Subject: [LUTE] Neoethnobaroquenism? I must second RT's comment. Composing new music using baroque (or renaissance) rules and style, and using perhaps 19th and/or 20th century opinions, reductions and simplifications of the melodies and styles of some nation or ethnic group, really is not so common. So in a way there is a mixture of a learned, perhaps even a schoolmaster way of taking the (baroque) composing rules; and on the other hand, a more or less nationalistic way of using the ditties and fancies people were/are singing and dancing, to create a Nation, to create a sense of us, who are not them. For example, when our Finnish national identity was created about at the second half of the 19th century, the musicians and poets collected lots of folk melodies, poems and songs, and normalized them to the common 19th century understanding of what is good and acceptable. No sex, drugs and rock'n roll there... Also the wilderness and swing of music was reduced to tiny, notated folk melodies that were nice starting points to the more or less Beethoven/Bach-oriented composers, who then composed their massive works out of these flattened and simplified reductions of what the the folks really had sung and played... I am afraid that composing, writing out every nyance of pitch and rhythm, will always be something that never meets, what the folks did and do. And I think the sex, drugs and rock'n roll really was the case and will be the case in the real music of fols. The poor and idealistic composers will try to emulate and copy that. But they'll always miss the train... I sincerely believe that in improvisation music will live and die! I am not good in improvisation, but the continuo playing is my tiny and happy part of that. Actually very important to me. But composing ethnocentric music sounds contradictory to me. And dear RT, this was not an insult, on the contrary: in writing this I was really serious. Arto On Sat, 22 Jan 2011 13:52:26 -0500, Roman Turovsky r.turov...@verizon.net wrote: Yes, but the ethnocentric retrocomposition is a different and a new thing! RT - Original Message - From: Nancy Carlin na...@nancycarlinassociates.com To: lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2011 1:49 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: YouTube - Marco Meloni There were a couple of other English bands who have done some interesting things Steel Eye Span recorded Gaudete be fore anyone else I can think of The band with the best name of all Giles Farnaby's Dream Band - a nice version of Kemp's Jig In a similar vein- but not so much early music Gryphon Nancy At 08:29 AM 1/22/2011, Sean Smith wrote: There are also one German and one French-Canadian early music groups who have done a lot of arrangements of folk as early music. Add Shirley and Dolly Collins recording with Hogwood, Munrow, Skeapingx2 and Laird in the late '60s. sws On Jan 22, 2011, at 5:52 AM, Roman Turovsky wrote: In fact, this is pretty rare. Aside from Paulo and myself I cam only think of one Swedish composer Petter Moeller who has done something of the sort. Nancy Carlin Associates P.O. Box 6499 Concord, CA 94524 USA phone 925/686-5800 fax 925/680-2582 web sites - [1]www.nancycarlinassociates.com [2]www.groundsanddivisions.info Representing: FROM WALES - Crasdant Carreg Lafar, FROM ENGLAND - Jez Lowe Jez Lowe The Bad Pennies, and now representing EARLY MUSIC - The Venere Lute Quartet, The Good Pennyworths Morrongiello Young Administrator THE LUTE SOCIETY OF AMERICA web site - [3]http://LuteSocietyofAmerica.org -- References 1. http://www.nancycarlinassociates.com/ 2. http://www.groundsanddivisions.info/ 3. http://lutesocietyofamerica.org/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Saizenay
Lino Messina reports on the French lute list that the Saizenay manuscript has now been made available for download by the Besanc,on library. Username blank, password theorbe. It will be taken down if it's not downloaded at least once in 30 days, so don't hold back! :-) Funnily, what's been posted is a copy of the Minkoff facsimile rather than fresh images of the original manuscript. But it's all there, both volumes. Thanks, Lino! Peter Bonjour, Nous vous confirmons le depot du fichier saizenay_ms.pdf effectue le 21/01/2011 15:13 sur le service [1]http://dl.free.fr Votre fichier sera accessible `a l'adresse suivante: [2]http://dl.free.fr/b0sUQF6mb Le fichier est protege par le mot de passe suivant: theorbe Nous vous rappelons que s'il n'est pas telecharge au moins 1 fois sur une periode de 30 jours, il sera efface du service. -- Peter Martin 24 The Mount St Georges Second Avenue Newcastle under Lyme ST5 8RB tel: 0044 (0)1782 662089 mob: 0044 (0)7971 232614 [3]peter.l...@gmail.com -- References 1. http://dl.free.fr/ 2. http://dl.free.fr/b0sUQF6mb 3. mailto:peter.l...@gmail.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Saizenay
Lino Messina reports on the French lute list that the Saizenay manuscript has now been made available for download by the Besanc,on library. Username blank, password theorbe. It will be taken down if it's not downloaded at least once in 30 days, so don't hold back! :-) Funnily, what's been posted is a copy of the Minkoff facsimile rather than fresh images of the original manuscript. But it's all there, both volumes. There seems to be a misunderstanding. Lino wrote Le fichier en ligne sur free c'est le facsimile Minkoff, la bibliothèque de Besançon est en train de numériser le manuscrit original. Quand disponible il sera sur le site même de la bibliothèque So, the library is going to publish a digitalization of the original. Soon, hopefully. regards Bernd To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Neoethnobaroquenism?
Does anyone have a copy them? RT - Original Message - From: Max Langer max.lan...@gmail.com To: Roman Turovsky r.turov...@gmail.com Cc: Lutelist lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 3:33 AM Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Neoethnobaroquenism? There are also the suites of Swedish folk tunes for lute and guitar by Jakob Lindberg; I surmise they were written in a similar spirit. Max On 23 January 2011 01:08, Roman Turovsky r.turov...@gmail.com wrote: I have no problem with being taken as contradictory. And I take ethnocentrism as a great antidote for modernism. Having said that: I don't think that is a good reason to pursue ethnocentric composition. I simply love the sounds of the old country too much, and I translate them into the lute-language. I'm sure Paulo thinks the same way. RT - Original Message - From: wikla wi...@cs.helsinki.fi To: Roman Turovsky r.turov...@verizon.net Cc: lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; Nancy Carlin na...@nancycarlinassociates.com Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2011 5:44 PM Subject: [LUTE] Neoethnobaroquenism? I must second RT's comment. Composing new music using baroque (or renaissance) rules and style, and using perhaps 19th and/or 20th century opinions, reductions and simplifications of the melodies and styles of some nation or ethnic group, really is not so common. So in a way there is a mixture of a learned, perhaps even a schoolmaster way of taking the (baroque) composing rules; and on the other hand, a more or less nationalistic way of using the ditties and fancies people were/are singing and dancing, to create a Nation, to create a sense of us, who are not them. For example, when our Finnish national identity was created about at the second half of the 19th century, the musicians and poets collected lots of folk melodies, poems and songs, and normalized them to the common 19th century understanding of what is good and acceptable. No sex, drugs and rock'n roll there... Also the wilderness and swing of music was reduced to tiny, notated folk melodies that were nice starting points to the more or less Beethoven/Bach-oriented composers, who then composed their massive works out of these flattened and simplified reductions of what the the folks really had sung and played... I am afraid that composing, writing out every nyance of pitch and rhythm, will always be something that never meets, what the folks did and do. And I think the sex, drugs and rock'n roll really was the case and will be the case in the real music of fols. The poor and idealistic composers will try to emulate and copy that. But they'll always miss the train... I sincerely believe that in improvisation music will live and die! I am not good in improvisation, but the continuo playing is my tiny and happy part of that. Actually very important to me. But composing ethnocentric music sounds contradictory to me. And dear RT, this was not an insult, on the contrary: in writing this I was really serious. Arto On Sat, 22 Jan 2011 13:52:26 -0500, Roman Turovsky r.turov...@verizon.net wrote: Yes, but the ethnocentric retrocomposition is a different and a new thing! RT - Original Message - From: Nancy Carlin na...@nancycarlinassociates.com To: lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2011 1:49 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: YouTube - Marco Meloni There were a couple of other English bands who have done some interesting things Steel Eye Span recorded Gaudete be fore anyone else I can think of The band with the best name of all Giles Farnaby's Dream Band - a nice version of Kemp's Jig In a similar vein- but not so much early music Gryphon Nancy At 08:29 AM 1/22/2011, Sean Smith wrote: There are also one German and one French-Canadian early music groups who have done a lot of arrangements of folk as early music. Add Shirley and Dolly Collins recording with Hogwood, Munrow, Skeapingx2 and Laird in the late '60s. sws On Jan 22, 2011, at 5:52 AM, Roman Turovsky wrote: In fact, this is pretty rare. Aside from Paulo and myself I cam only think of one Swedish composer Petter Moeller who has done something of the sort. Nancy Carlin Associates P.O. Box 6499 Concord, CA 94524 USA phone 925/686-5800 fax 925/680-2582 web sites - [1]www.nancycarlinassociates.com [2]www.groundsanddivisions.info Representing: FROM WALES - Crasdant Carreg Lafar, FROM ENGLAND - Jez Lowe Jez Lowe The Bad Pennies, and now representing EARLY MUSIC - The Venere Lute Quartet, The Good Pennyworths Morrongiello Young Administrator THE LUTE SOCIETY OF AMERICA web site - [3]http://LuteSocietyofAmerica.org -- References 1. http://www.nancycarlinassociates.com/ 2. http://www.groundsanddivisions.info/ 3. http://lutesocietyofamerica.org/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
