[LUTE] Vihuela duet concert. Heringman Abramovich
Dear All, Jacob Heringman and I will be performing a vihuela duet program next Saturday, in Basel (Switzerland). More details here: http://www.lauten-abende.ch/index.php?id=konzert1 If you happen to be not too far away, we'd love to meet you there! Greetings from Sevilla, AA To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: mudarra Tres libros de musica en cifras para vihuela
Martin is right: Latin, Italian, Castilian are the languages. If I remember correctly, there's even a villancico in some sort of Portuguese (or galaic-portuguese) with Spanish spelling. Many of the poems can be found in non musical editions, such as those by Petrarca, Manrique or Garcilaso. If some specific poem is needed, I'd be happy to send a link or a copy. I'm afraid I can't do that with all of them. With some patience, most of the texts can be found easily. Unfortunately, there's of course work to be done in order to fit the words in a reasonable, logical yet artistic way. In some of the pieces, as it happens with English lute songs, only the first strophe will fit the music, and for adding more texts re writing will be needed. Some of the verses are missing and literary sources are a must in order to fill the gap. Some people (even Spanish speaking people) unaware if this perform and record this works The writing is pretty much in the style of Guerrero and Vasquez, with a strong Italian madrigalistic influence. The voices are very independent, and there's a good balance between good counterpoint and idiomatic writing. I'm preparing a recording of most of the songs, which I hope I can offer next year. King and Heringman's version is nice, and there're others: Hoppy and Montserrat, Jorge Fresno and Rosemarie Meister, some of the songs also by Juan C Rivera and Carlos Mena, etc. Best, A To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: mudarra Tres libros de musica en cifras para vihuela
Monica: Si viesse e me levasse is not in Spanish, and certainly is closer to Galego and to Portuguese. That's the one I was talking about, and I of course know about Milán's pieces. Ariel. The Portugese villancicos are in Milan's El Maestro which is dedicated to the Portuguese King John. Monica - Original Message - From: Ariel Abramovich g_abramo...@hotmail.com To: Martin Shepherd mar...@luteshop.co.uk Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 12:42 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: mudarra Tres libros de musica en cifras para vihuela Martin is right: Latin, Italian, Castilian are the languages. If I remember correctly, there's even a villancico in some sort of Portuguese (or galaic-portuguese) with Spanish spelling. Many of the poems can be found in non musical editions, such as those by Petrarca, Manrique or Garcilaso. If some specific poem is needed, I'd be happy to send a link or a copy. I'm afraid I can't do that with all of them. With some patience, most of the texts can be found easily. Unfortunately, there's of course work to be done in order to fit the words in a reasonable, logical yet artistic way. In some of the pieces, as it happens with English lute songs, only the first strophe will fit the music, and for adding more texts re writing will be needed. Some of the verses are missing and literary sources are a must in order to fill the gap. Some people (even Spanish speaking people) unaware if this perform and record this works The writing is pretty much in the style of Guerrero and Vasquez, with a strong Italian madrigalistic influence. The voices are very independent, and there's a good balance between good counterpoint and idiomatic writing. I'm preparing a recording of most of the songs, which I hope I can offer next year. King and Heringman's version is nice, and there're others: Hoppy and Montserrat, Jorge Fresno and Rosemarie Meister, some of the songs also by Juan C Rivera and Carlos Mena, etc. Best, A To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] New Bach Lute CD
Dear friends, A colleague of mine has recorded quite a nice Bach lute cd for German label Carpe Diem, that has now been released. Here is a video done by the label http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oM2p9gYj52A It is definitively worth purchasing it! Best, Ariel. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Minkoff Francesco
Dear friends, I'm willing to purchase the old Minkoff F da Milano edition (1536), which is of course out of print. Maybe some of you knows of an available copy, or maybe someone is willing to sell his/her own? My own copy got lost while moving out the last time... Any help will be very much appreciated it! Thanks in advance! best Ariel. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: fret gut
Hi Sam, That's pretty much it. That's what Bermudo says. I can transcribe the full quote, but you've got it right anyway! Best, Ariel Dear all, Some time ago I read something about fretting vihuelas, probably Bermudo: as I remember, the best vihuelas can be fretted with the same thickness of gut all the way up the neck. Can somebody quote this source more accurately? Best, Sam On 15 August 2012 11:46, Martyn Hodgson [1]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Dear Stuart, Many people nowadays use a quite large diameter first fret (around 1.00mm or even more on a relatively small [60cm] lute) but, as Martin points out, the best record of actual historic fret sizes is John Dowland (in Varietie) which suggests significantly thinner frets - these allow a lute to be 'set fine' ie minimum distance between string and fingerboard at the higher frets, so easing higher fret fingering. I try to aim for first fret at 0.90mm on this size of instrument but, again as Martin points out, this depends on the set of your particular instrument. So that if the neck has pulled up a bit, or even incorrectly set from the start, you can use almost same diameter frets right up the fingerboard (around 0.70mm) - like a modern 'classical' guitar. But if the neck set is in the same plane as the belly (at the bridge) you may well need graduated frets. As said, I aim for a setting on this size lute which allows from 0.90 (first) down to around 0.50mm (8th fret). Thomas Mace also gives some info (again, hurrah Thos.!): 'with a fine smooth File, cut the Notches to a convenient depth so that all your Strings may lye at an even and equal height, from the Finger-Board, which would be about the thickness of a Half-Crown, or a little more;'. So if you know the thickness of a halfcrown in 1676 you know the distance from the underside of the strings to the fingerboard at the nut he's advocating and hence you may judge the diameter of his ideal first fret. Finally, Martin raises the matter of double v single loop frets: in fact there is no early evidence for the use of single loop frets with the noticeable exception, again, of the all-inclusive Thos Mace who, it should be noted, when it comes down to describing how to tie a fret desribes the usual double loop. You may care to see my paper on this very subject in the forthcoming issue of FoMRHI Quarterly. regards Martyn From: Martin Shepherd [2]mar...@luteshop.co.uk Subject: [LUTE] Re: fret gut To: Lute List [3]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Tuesday, 14 August, 2012, 21:14 Hi Stuart, It depends on the height of the nut. The first fret has to be as high as it can be without buzzing (in normal play, and this is surprisingly high), and so on up the neck. This may involve reducing fret sizes as one goes up the neck, it may not. Historically Dowland suggested using a fourth course string (about .75mm?) for the first fret, but he was talking about double frets. Best wishes, Martin 14/08/2012 21:01, WALSH STUART wrote: Is there a set of standard gauges of fret gut for a typical G lute, 60cms string length? And, if so, what are they? Stuart -- To get on or off this list see list information at [1][4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Sam Chapman Oetlingerstrasse 65 4057 Basel (0041) 79 530 39 91 -- References 1. mailto:hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk 2. mailto:mar...@luteshop.co.uk 3. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Fronimo 1568
Dear friends, I'm looking for some pieces from Galilei's Fronimo, the 1568 edition. While I've had the later one for a long time, I don't know if there's any available edition of the first one, and I'm in serious need of some of its material. Any tip would be very much appreciated! Regards, Ariel. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Fronimo 1568
Thanks, Daniel! I'll check it out! Ariel: The 1568 edition is available as a microfilm in the LSA library. Daniel -- Original Message -- From: Ariel Abramovich g_abramo...@hotmail.com To: lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Fronimo 1568 Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2011 12:09:38 +0100 Dear friends, I'm looking for some pieces from Galilei's Fronimo, the 1568 edition. While I've had the later one for a long time, I don't know if there's any available edition of the first one, and I'm in serious need of some of its material. Any tip would be very much appreciated! Regards, Ariel. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Problem opening CD Libros de Musica Para Vihuela
i think David's way is the only viable one if the browser doesn't work. I've experienced some problems as well, depending on where did I try to open it. Still, compared to this cd rom, Minkoff editions for vihuela are quite useless, specially if you're interested in the songs (and not only). All best, a Would you mind sharing? I print from the folders with jpg-files, but get lost looking for the correct page once in a while. Was hoping for a way to collate all files of one book into one pdf, for example. Another reason to deplore the loss of Minkof. David David van Ooijen [1]www.davidvanooijen.nl On Oct 10, 2011 10:41 PM, Franz Mechsner [2]franz.mechs...@northumbria.ac.uk wrote: Hi those who answered my request (or cry...) for help: Thanks so much for all your immediate help! This list is marvellous, you are really helpful and knowledgeable people not only regarding the lute. I've fixed the problem with one of the several proposed methods, a very simple one (best for me!) as proposed by Alan. Thanks again and warm regards Franz __ Von: [3]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu im Auftrag von Bruno Correia Gesendet: Mo 10.10.2011 22:27 An: lute Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Problem opening CD Libros de Musica Para Vihuela Franz, Same problem with my cd too. It used to open on an earlier windows version, but it doesn't on the Vista plataform... You can still open de images manually though. I copied it into the HD and access the files through the imagenes icon. I'd be glad If someone knows how to fix it. Regards. 2011/10/10 Franz Mechsner [1][4]franz.mechs...@northumbria.ac.uk Dear All, Many apologies, I've come across an odd problem: I have bought the CD Libros de Musica Para Vihuela 1536-1576 (which contains pdfs of faksimiles) from Opera Tres. If I put the CD into my computer (Windows7) the cover shows up, then on click a page listing the composers but more cannot be opened. An error message says: Error '339' en tiempo de ejecucion: El componente 'PrntPRO2.dll' o uno de sus archivos dependientes no esta registrado correctamente: falta un archivo o no es valido. Does anybody know what I have to do here or how to fix the problem? Or has anybody got Opera Tres' email? I would be extremely thankful for any kind of help. Best Franz -- To get on or off this list see list information at [2][1][5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. [2]mailto:[6]franz.mechs...@northumbria.ac.uk 2. [3][7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. [8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 2. mailto:[9]franz.mechs...@northumbria.ac.uk 3. [10]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/ 2. mailto:franz.mechs...@northumbria.ac.uk 3. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 4. mailto:franz.mechs...@northumbria.ac.uk 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 6. mailto:franz.mechs...@northumbria.ac.uk 7. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 8. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 9. mailto:franz.mechs...@northumbria.ac.uk 10. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Problem opening CD Libros de Musica Para Vihuela
i think David's way is the only viable one if the browser doesn't work. I've experienced some problems as well, depending on where did I try to open it. Still, compared to this cd rom, Minkoff editions for vihuela are quite useless, specially if you're interested in the songs (and not only). All best, a Would you mind sharing? I print from the folders with jpg-files, but get lost looking for the correct page once in a while. Was hoping for a way to collate all files of one book into one pdf, for example. Another reason to deplore the loss of Minkof. David David van Ooijen [1]www.davidvanooijen.nl On Oct 10, 2011 10:41 PM, Franz Mechsner [2]franz.mechs...@northumbria.ac.uk wrote: Hi those who answered my request (or cry...) for help: Thanks so much for all your immediate help! This list is marvellous, you are really helpful and knowledgeable people not only regarding the lute. I've fixed the problem with one of the several proposed methods, a very simple one (best for me!) as proposed by Alan. Thanks again and warm regards Franz __ Von: [3]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu im Auftrag von Bruno Correia Gesendet: Mo 10.10.2011 22:27 An: lute Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Problem opening CD Libros de Musica Para Vihuela Franz, Same problem with my cd too. It used to open on an earlier windows version, but it doesn't on the Vista plataform... You can still open de images manually though. I copied it into the HD and access the files through the imagenes icon. I'd be glad If someone knows how to fix it. Regards. 2011/10/10 Franz Mechsner [1][4]franz.mechs...@northumbria.ac.uk Dear All, Many apologies, I've come across an odd problem: I have bought the CD Libros de Musica Para Vihuela 1536-1576 (which contains pdfs of faksimiles) from Opera Tres. If I put the CD into my computer (Windows7) the cover shows up, then on click a page listing the composers but more cannot be opened. An error message says: Error '339' en tiempo de ejecucion: El componente 'PrntPRO2.dll' o uno de sus archivos dependientes no esta registrado correctamente: falta un archivo o no es valido. Does anybody know what I have to do here or how to fix the problem? Or has anybody got Opera Tres' email? I would be extremely thankful for any kind of help. Best Franz -- To get on or off this list see list information at [2][1][5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. [2]mailto:[6]franz.mechs...@northumbria.ac.uk 2. [3][7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. [8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 2. mailto:[9]franz.mechs...@northumbria.ac.uk 3. [10]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/ 2. mailto:franz.mechs...@northumbria.ac.uk 3. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 4. mailto:franz.mechs...@northumbria.ac.uk 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 6. mailto:franz.mechs...@northumbria.ac.uk 7. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 8. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 9. mailto:franz.mechs...@northumbria.ac.uk 10. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Theorbo shipping within the U.S
A sensitive advice: avoid UPS at all cost. They have stolen an instrument from me, and not payed for it to the date. They were not only incompetent, but also rude and disrespectful (both, USA and Spanish branchs) The instrument was later seen on ebay for sale. No need to say more, I guess :) best, ariel. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Kozena and guitars, theorbo, colascione etc..
Sorry, I look a lot better than that guy! :) Oh My God, I did'nt know that Ariel Abramovich is such a huge hit in the states ;-) we Am 15.11.10 16:24, schrieb Eugene C. Braig IV: It's even worse than you've all imagined. This guy is popular! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCage-_yz7A http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCCE-oTwRfY Frankly, I actually enjoyed the Kozena et al. performance. There's also nothing wrong with not. It is light years ahead of Benise. Eugene -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of David Tayler Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2010 6:52 PM To: lute-cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Kozena and guitars, theorbo, colascione etc.. I think they should have a museum where all the paintings have been digitized and had the colors turned all the way up, ppl would love it. dt At 12:16 PM 11/12/2010, you wrote: On 12 November 2010 20:29, Bruno Fournierbr...@estavel.org wrote: I personnally am getting tired of all this theatrical way of doing baroque music, and the Latin american style of strumming used.A Don't It's fashion, it'll pass. In the mean time we can enjoy it (and get paid for doing it ... :-) then you can continue with the vids on the righ side of the page. Only one click away from the same singer in Albans Berg's Sieben Frühe Lieder. Great music! Simon Rattle conducting the Simon Bolivar Youth Orchestra dressed as side kicks in the TV-series The Sopranos. No guitar strumming. Bernd We've put your present next to our little house altar and will patiently wait till Christmas before opening it. ;-) David -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Early Music Course in Alicante, Spain
Dear friends, Between 8th and 12th of September, I'll be teaching lute and vihuela at the Vth edition of the Early Music Workshop in Alicante (Spain). My class will focus on playing polyphony on plucked instruments, and will pay special attention to the wonderful vihuela literature. For more info, check: http://musicaantiga.com/GVPMA%20english.htm You can of course contact me for further details. All best, Ariel. __ Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. [1]Get it now. -- References 1. https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=60969 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Milano Matelart
Hi Martin, I'm afraid Valderrabano only have unison, thirds, fourths and fifths apart vihuelas pieces, but none tone apart. I wish he had some! best, a Hi Ed, Five of the seven Milano/Matelart duets are for tone-apart lutes. All seven are available in an edition (which also includes versions for equal lutes) by Gordon Gregory, published by the Lute Society (www.lutesoc.org). It's cheap and worth having. It's also worth having the SPES facsimile of the Matelart book - his solo fantasias are good too. The Toccata by Piccinini is for tone-apart lutes, and there are several in Phalese, again published by the Lute Society in an edition by Lynda Sayce. Valderrabano also has two duets for vihuelas a tone apart. Best wishes, Martin Ed Durbrow wrote: I'm looking for online sources of duets for lutes a step apart, particularly the Milano Matelart ones. Sarge Garbode just has one of them which I already have. Any other nice ones a step apart? TIA Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan [1]edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp [2]http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ -- References 1. mailto:edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp 2. http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html __ Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. [1]Sign up now. -- References 1. https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=60969
[LUTE] Re: John Danyel
Thank you all, very much! I've got the solo lute music book, and I'll have a copy of the songs soon. Thanks!! best, a __ Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. [1]Get it now. -- References 1. https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=60969 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] John Danyel
Dear friends, is there any available facsimilar edition of John Danyel lute songs? I'm willing to buy it, if so. Thanks in advance for any advice! Best, Ariel. __ Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. [1]Get it now. -- References 1. https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=60969 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Edward Martin/who knows?
Hi Omer, Surely Ed will appreciate that you've taken the time to say a word on his work. I'm of the opinion of defending our musical ideas making music rather than with words, so I won't say much here... About Milán: He doesn't say anything on repeating or not, but he is definitively flexible about many other things all over his book, so I don't see a reason for not repeating. Hoppy Smith does it, for instances even only with one part of the piece, and it can be an interesting effect (in case you do have something to say, of course). As for the fantasia as a story, let's go back to Milán: solo procede de la fantasía e industria del autor que la hizo, which means that has no other origin that the author's imagination, and therefore there's no much restrictions about how we can face them today. Not in Milán's book, at least. We can do pretty much whatever we want with it, and there's no rules for breaking chords, dynamics or anything like that. There's nothing proper or correct... A simple matter of taste, I'm afraid. Milán gently offered to amateur players some tips on rubato, for example, which should be taken as a mind opener, rather than a guide to play music in a very specific way (wish my English was better, sorry). Best, Ariel. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Thomas Campion
Found! Thanks to Matteo, Alfonso and everyone else! Saludos, a To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Course in Orte (Italy)
Dear Friends, Here's the link to an EM music course in which Evangelina Mascardi (fantastic player, teacher and friend) teaches the lutes and related instruments. http://www.incontrimediterranei.cittadiorte.it/eventi/corsi_musica_antica_2009/corsi_musica_antica_2009.htm I highly recommend her! saludos, Ariel. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Josquin
Dear all, thank you all very much for your help! I guess I have enough material to start working ;=) all the best, ariel. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Josquin
Dear friends, This subject may have been discussed already... Is there any available list with references to all existent Josquin intabulations for lute? I've got all the vihuela settings and I'm familiar with them, but I want to select a number of pieces, for what I'd like to have all available options. Thanks in advance! regards, Ariel. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Si me llaman... Diego Pisador- Salamanca, 1552
Thanks, Jean-Marie! Pisador requires a critical eye and ear in order to bring out his qualities. There are many mistakes and stuff that is not very well constructed, but if give it time and effort, you can achieve interesting results. All best, a To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: vihuela song's concert
Dear Friends, My partner and I we'll be offering a concert in Munich next Thursday, in case anyone is nearby. Here's the info: Donnerstag, 3. Mai 2007, 19:30 Uhr Jueves, 3 de mayo de 2007, 19:30h Hofkapelle der Residenz The program will be an anthology of the 7 vihuela books. Hope to see some of you there. Best, Ariel. _ Don't just search. Find. [1]MSN Search Check out the new MSN Search! References 1. http://g.msn.com/8HMAEN/2749??PS=47575 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Hip and Sting
Dear Stewart, I couldn't agree more! Thanks for your words, Ariel. - Original Message - From: Stewart McCoy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Lute Net lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 1:57 AM Subject: [LUTE] Hip and Sting Dear Stuart, Don't tempt me ... There once was a singer called Sting, Whose archlute was covered in bling. He liked it that way, It was easy to play, 'Cos each course had got only one string. There once was a fellow called Sting. In the pop music world, he was King. He said with a smile, As his disks earned a pile, Should I care if you hate how I sing? I can't think of any words which rhyme with Karamazov. -o-O-o- By the way, some of the recent criticisms of Sting's Dowland CD have an unfortunate whiff of jealousy - that other musicians are more worthy of success. None of us owns Dowland. His music is for all of us to enjoy in whatever way we please. I am reminded of John Betjeman's Church Mouse, who resents other rodents coming into church at Harvest Festival: ... But how annoying when one finds That other mice with pagan minds Come into church my food to share Who have no proper business there ... Good luck to Sting and Karamazov. I wish them well. Stewart McCoy. - Original Message - From: Stuart LeBlanc [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 12:03 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Hip and Sting There once was a lute email list No rancor or bile ever missed The offending thing Came from one named Sting Thus all of the listers got pissed To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: The last word goes to Sting
Caro Francesco, Sad as it may be for some, different market laws determine success of a certain product, and its quality has little to do with that. Regarding the cd itself, I must say that I find your characterization of a piece of junk a bit too extreme, if not a bit offensive. Edin is an specialized lutenist (one of the best around, I should add), and Sting knows about Dowland (and about singing) as much as many so called professional singers. I've heard dozens of lute/lute songs cd's that I find terribly unpleasant, but would never dare to call them publicly a piece of junk. Of course, you have the right to do it. I don't think we should be angry about this cd' success. Let's wait a bit and see whether it helps to promote what we've been doing. I think that there're other seriously alarming things in cultural world to worry about. Have anyone in the list actually heard the full CD? Saludos, Ariel. - Original Message - From: Francesco Tribioli [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 11:03 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: The last word goes to Sting I have if on good authority that the Labyrinth sales in Germany have already exceeded 30. RT There is an incredible amount of advertising of this CD here in Italy too. Every morning after the radio news there is an extract of Come again sang by Sting with the advise of buying the CD in the best CD shops. This is an interesting phenomenon: actually the quality of the music and the quality of the performance are absolutely unimportant. No one knows who is Dowland, no one knows what a good performance of this music is but the name of pop star is enough to sell a piece of junk (IMHO) as this CD like the bread. It is considered a musical event, while CDs recorded by specialized lutenists and singers pass completely ignored! There is something wrong in all this... Nowadays what sells is the name not the music. Francesco To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: The last word goes to Sting
Hi Daniel, Edin is an specialized lutenist (one of the best around, I should add), ... Ariel: I wish Edin, the CD and any spill off into the lute community at large great financial and artistic success. But I have to say that your comment really gets under my skin. Do you mean that Edin is tops at his published specialty (Bach and Britten on an archlute)? Then I would completely agree. Do you honestly believe however that he is one of the best professional lutenists around or at least a top Dowland interpreter? If so, do you have any criteria other than friendship? I do believe that Edin is one of the best lute players today, and not necessary a Dowland expert. I heard him playing many different times, and I don't think friendship is the main criteria here, but of course feel free to thing the opposite. I love the way he plays Weiss, Zamboni, and Bach, for instances. For other music, I'd go for other players, I guess. In any case, Daniel, don't take my words so personally. I'm a professional player like many other on the list, and my taste and criteria do not have to be shared by anyone else. I never meant to disqualify other people, obviously. I just gave my opinion on Edin's playing. Art is art and artists shouldn't be ranked like world tennis players. Nevertheless I don't think it is too unreasonable to at least think in terms of broad bands of technical and artistic ability. No need to quibble about specifics, but there is definitely an A list that includes people like POD, McFarlane, Hoppy, Satoh, Lindberg, Barto, Stubbs and North. I must say that I find the A list quite arbitrary and unbalanced for my own taste, but if it is based on personal perception and values, I'm ok with that. There is another top group who aren't quite as well known or broadly recorded but whose recordings really impress me, like Wilson, Eguez, Held, and Lislevand. Same as in A, to be honest. There are others whom I have heard in person and on the occasional recording that also play at a very high level like Richard Stone, Andrew Maginley, David Dolata, Scott Pauley, Lucas Harris, amongst others. Of course everyone on the lutelist will have a different personal preference list, and I know that Roman can produce a list of people whose names I have never heard of and whose names would yield extremely high Scrabble scores whom I have never heard play but I am sure are very talented. The Scrabble thing is good! ; =) I guess I'm one of Roman's list. Nevertheless, do you believe that based on his 2 recordings, Edin's technical and artistic levels exceed those of the arbitrary and highly personal list I just came up with? The way you put it makes it difficult to answer... I'll place Edin in the A list, but probably wouldn't take as a parameter these two recordings. His live performances are of a much higher level that what he shows on the cds. Of course, you may not like him. Some people consider some players to be simply amazing, while many other find them awful. This is quite obvious, and that very same thin thing applies to Edin's job. If Edin's thing wasn't as successful, we wouldn't be talking on the same terms, I'm sure. Just in case, I have my own musical life (although not with pop stars) and I'm Edin's friend as well as I'm Mascardi or Egüez friend. I have no deeper reasons or motivations to defend him. Saludos, A To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Karamazov sound
It is double strung, David. I saw it, played, and heard it. A __ From: LGS-Europe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Roman Turovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED], lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Karamazov sound Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 10:39:48 +0200 Karamazov (note the spelling, and the Dostoyevsky allusion to help you remember it) is a strictly double-strung player. This too? http://www.alpha-prod.com/catal.asp?ct=97r=Brittenoct=23ttsc=Britten Don't get me wrong, I think it's beautiful in sound and very musically played, but is it double strung? Sounds reststroke on single strings to me. The info says Liuto Attiorbato, Nico van der Waals, 1996. David To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Single strung archlute !!!
BRAVO, Stewart !!! Just the perfect words... Thanks, Ariel. Dear Rick and Paul, Thank you for your common-sense contributions. The Sting thread has aroused many passions. I am inclined to think that many of the contributions have been sent in by a load of fuddy-duddies. I am reminded of my old school chaplain, who disliked the Beatles, and seemed to resent their popularity. When I told him that I liked their music, he was aghast. What sort of voices do they have? Are they tenors? he asked scathingly. It was the wrong question. They weren't tenors. To be a tenor, meant singing classical music with a trained voice. The Beatles did something else, and it was a mistake on the chaplain's part to try to judge them by inappropriate criteria. So it is with many of the critical comments levelled against Sting. If we expect him to sound like Emma Kirkby, we shall be disappointed. He sings Dowland his own way. His performance of Can she excuse my wrongs has excitement and passion. The out-of-tune notes may grate on our refined ears, but at least they are sung with committment. It is an angry, passionate song, supposedly about the Earl of Essex' unrequited love for Queen Elizabeth. How many times have I heard it sung beautifully by an angelic voice, perfectly in tune, and with no more fire than a damp squib: in tune, but utterly flat? Does HIP matter? Is it a sine qua non? Is Sting trying to promulgate a historically informed performance? Probably not. He has his own agenda. The irony of it all is, his performance is as likely to be as HIP as any other. How do we know Dowland and his contemporaries didn't sing that way? Much has been said in criticism of Karamazov, the lutenist. For me, his performance is also exciting, and I am impressed by the spectacular divisions at the end of the sound clip. His great crime seems to be performing Dowland on an archlute, and with single strings. My Goodness! How could he do such a thing? Wherever was he brought up? Yet, as one who has played the music of Francesco da Milano on an 8-course lute with nylgut strings, I would hesitate to throw the first HIP stone. For me, the big mistake is having the microphones too close to the performers. If that is the sound they are after, good luck to them, but I suspect it was imposed on them by a sound engineer unfamiliar with lutes. If the mike is too close, it will capture that harsh, brittle sound you get when you have your ears right up to the lute ribs. Ideally the mikes should be some distance away, where they are more likely to capture the sound a listener would normally hear from an accoustic instrument. Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. - Original Message - From: Lindberg Richard-MGIA0539 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Paul Pleijsier [EMAIL PROTECTED]; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 9:59 PM Subject: *** SPAM *** [LUTE] Re: Single strung archlute !!! My feelings exactly. I think it is pretty cool for a pop musician to try anything like this whether it's historically accurate or not. At least John Dowland's music will be brought to a new audience if nothing else. Who knows what additonal interest that will pique. Rick -Original Message- From: Paul Pleijsier [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 4:26 PM To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Single strung archlute !!! If the CD sounds anything like what you can hear at Amazon then it must go down as one of the worst lute recordings of all times. What are those amazingly loud string noises ? Please try to see what it really is: a fantasy performing style, pop influenced, though not standard Sting-pop, with a poppy use of the studio, exaggerating string noise, compression etc., trying to find the missing link between lute playing and modern pyrotechnics. Let's give Sting and his luter the thumbs up for trying something different. PP To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Hear Sting Dowland CD at amazon.de
Even with help from one of ABBA her performances are quite pointless just as lessons from a teacher from the Sacred Spires of Basel didn't help Sting much. Sorry, Mark, Who is that teacher? I've been there, but I'm short of imagination today Sunday lunch time... Saludos, Ariel. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Hear Sting Dowland CD at amazon.de
Hola David, What do you think... does Sting knows less about Dowland than M. Figueras about Milan? ... In my opinion, Sting offered another version, as many other in the market. ... In any case, I wonder why people are being so hard with these two Ola Ariel I'm sure Sting knows all about Dowland, but that doesn't make him a good singer of his songs. That applies to many informed singers. To me, Sting shouldn't be judged differently from any other. True enough he offered us another version of the songs, but that doesn't mean we are to like it. What do you mean with WE? I'm not saying that anyone should be forced to like this cd. I'm just saying that it has it is as rigorous and as decent as many other previous Dowland recordings. And I was really looking forward to it: a non-classical approach to this repertoire I love so much. But for me he didn't make the text speak, his vowels were too distracting. Strange, really, for in his pop songs Sting is very good in bringing the text across. I like the guy and his songs. Funny enough, I found that one of the good things of his cd is the text, and how it is treated. Why are we so hard on these two? Sorry if I give the impression of being negative just for the sake of it, it is not my intention. Perhaps by releasing yet another approach on this so well-known, and much-loved repertoire, they give themselves open to criticism. More than with other repertoire. But they are big boys and can take it. When we release our cds we expect criticism, too. That's allright as long as it is fair. I hope we are being fair on Sting. I at least try to be. I'm sorry David, but if everyone on the list would say frankly what they thought about other members recordings, I'm sure people wouldn't feel as comfortable. Again: I love Dowland songs, and heard many concerts and recordings of them as many of you. Some of them, even performed by professionals, were insulting. For another 'different' approach to Dowland listen to Zoe Vandermeer, soprano, who accompanies herself on baroque triple harp on a cd entitled 'Angel's Wine'. Debatable singing, perhaps, but very expressive and certainly 'different'. Everything is debatable, that's the problem. There's no standards nor reference points to be taken as infallible models. Ariel. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Hear Sting Dowland CD at amazon.de
- Original Message - From: LGS-Europe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 4:43 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Hear Sting Dowland CD at amazon.de I would have loved to have a good CD from Sting and I have nothing against the boy from sarejevo but I hope it awakens an interest in this music and then we have the job to show how it should be done. My sentiments entirely. I've heard very nice pop songs from Sting, but his Dowland is beyond me and the lute playing is below standard for Dowland lute song accompaniments. Perhaps they used multi track recording to record lute and voice seperately? That would explain some of it. I actually thought it was Sting himself and was willing to forgive the bland playing. It was so much better than the singing anyway. This is something else I don't quite get. You say that the lute playing is below standard for Dowland lute songs? What do you mean? Is there such a thing? Would you give me an example? BTW, the boy isn't from Sarajevo, but from Zenica. Ariel. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Buying a Lute
Hi, In my experience, I would go for the best possible instrument, specially if you want to study the lute seriously. I is better to invest right at the beginning (if you can afford it, obviously), as selling and buying normally menas loosing money. Many good makers have fairly long waiting lists, which may be a problem, but some other don't, and there're many good and/or decent second hand instruments. I can recommend specific names and models, if you want, depending on where you are. Email privately, better. Good luck, Ariel About a year ago I learned three or four songs from my beginner's lute-book, on a cheap Pakistani lute which cost me about $600. Unfortunately I soon reached a song which was impossible to play, due to the stretches required. No matter how much I stretched out my fingers (I am nineteen, and my ring size is 7), I would never have been able to do it; the lute was simply too big for me. I gave up for the time and have for about a year been missing playing my lute. I looked up some pages online for Italian lutes, such as that of Paolo Busato and Marco Salerno. With so many sellers and so many different kinds of lutes, it is difficult for me to find one to suit me now that I have enough money to buy a real lute! I could spend as much as $5,000; however, what I would really like is one between $1,000 and $2,500. I have a preference for Renaissance and specifically Italian lutes. Please, could you give me advice about purchasing one that would suit me? Otherwise I may just make another mistake. Thanks, Kay To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: (was) Strings for chittarone
- Original Message - From: Bernd Haegemann [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ariel abramovich [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 9:53 AM Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: (was) Strings for chittarone Dear Ariel, Ariel, listening to Tomatito and Camar=F3n de la Isla, which is simply amazing. Camar.. que? And is it the title of an album (which I couldn't find) or of a single piece? Camaron de la Isla, the finest flamenco singer. Any album would be good... no matter if it is with Paco de Lucía, Tomatito or some other guitarist. I'm sure you'll enjoy it! De nada, a gracias, best wishes Bernd To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: (was) Strings for chittarone
Hi all, we've been in the subject before, many times. As most of you, I've heard people playing lutes strung in all sort of materials, both in concerts and recordings, with good and bad instruments. I've also used both and had the chance to experiment a bit. There's no point in arguing about taste but there're a couple of objective things: Most professional players don't use gut while playing concerts, because of intonation and other practical reasons. Audience do suffer our tuning problems more than we do (and more than what we think). They might not exactly know what's going on, but certainly perceive that something sounds simply bad, and that can be distracting and frustrating. On the other hand, in a modern (big) concert hall would be very difficult to tell whether you're using gut or synthetic, ever for someone who's trained. You're lucky if they can hear you. It is, at the end, a matter of values. More important to me, the string material is only a small fraction of the whole tone production process. Making a flexible sound (I wouldn't, again, say good or bad) takes years of work and daily practice, and many people wouldn't want to waist time doing that (for instances, some students just don't get the point). Why bothering then in spending absurd amounts of money in strings if the sounds is mainly in your fingers? I remember when I met Paul O' Dette back in 1995, and took for my lesson a very simple lute built in Buenos Aires that I played back then. No surprises here, he played and sounded just like PO'D, there was no sings of a poor instrument anymore. The very same experience when I've studied with Hoppy, or with Eugène Ferré: sound quality wasn't determined by the tool's quality (nor by the strings). Synthetic or gut doesn't really get us closer or further away from Francesco, Dowland or Narváez and Newsidler. Understanding of the language, our skills with the instruments and inspiration does it, in my opinion. Apart from that, not all modern lutes are made for gut. Many modern makers test and conceive their instruments with/for synthetic and certainly don't have a gut sound in mind, for what strings material becomes something relative here. Again in a personal terrain, the best lute concerts and recordings I've heard were performed with synthetic, and by any chance I felt I was missing something. Gut strings have very nice qualities, but I wouldn't exaggerate their importance. Saludos, Ariel. Chris about gut strings in the past: our gut is _not_ their gut. (i.e. the exact same type of string that was made back in the day.) Therefore, whatever you decide I'd say that the gut strings of all the different gut string makers of today, with their variety of products with quite different characteristics and sound, all come closer to a sound a lute player of old had with his variety of gut strings available to him, closer than a modern string of uniform material. Gut is a complex material resulting in a complex sound. No two strings are the same, such a baroque concept! Baroque art is like custard with lumps, not processed yoghurt with artificial vanilla flavour. All nylgut is nylgut, all carbon is carbon, all nylon is nylon. How can you enter a world of complex 'organic' sounds with a uniform 'synthetic' sound? A good wine is not the same as a cheap softdrink, but if you drink the latter often enough, you might start to like it. I agree that gut (basses especially) might be an aquired taste, but aren't those the most enjoyable? I like gut strings for all the reasons stated above, not because they are exactly the same as the strings Francesco or Dowland had. But at the same time I am convinced that playing on non-gut strings will certainly get me further away from a sound of Francesco or Dowland. Why is it that lute players must be told their instruments were made for gut strings? Isn't it obvious? David David van Ooijen [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.davidvanooijen.nl To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: page update
- Original Message - From: Doctor Oakroot [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, May 15, 2006 2:30 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: page update Isn't viendo a present participle? It would be Watching the time pass I think. That's what it is, Dr. something like I see (watch?) the time passing? The title in spanish is Viendo pasar el tiempo. Perhaps some of you with a good knowledge of both the spanish and english languages can suggest a translation... To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- http://DoctorOakroot.com - Rough-edged songs on homemade GIT-tars.
[LUTE] Re: Ariel and Adorno
Dear All, Hey, wasn't Adorno the guy who declared in the 1930s that jazz was a total dead-end and entirely trivial? Cheers, Jim Maybe, and a whole bunch of interesting things as well... To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: student lutes (Re: Who wants to sell New Boy a lute?)
Charlie, once again, people accuse me of insulting them (at least you, unlike Abramovich and others before) did not insult me but answered with a statement that I can relate to. Thanks. My friend: learn to listen (read) to yourself; spend some more time thinking, and then make your contributions. You were insulting, for instances suggesting that people using synthetic strings were simply as wrong as people who voted for Bush or supported WWI. I've only said that you were arrogant and ignorant; that was not an insult but a mere description of how you were acting. Now, about other people's priorities (not in order of importance): Can you make a flexible, audible and interesting sound with a lute? Would you be able to make music with that? Can you play the repertoire (or a substantial part of it) effortless, produce your own- and very personal- musical speech and transfer it to the audience? Can you for instances clearly hear- and choose exactly what to do with them- what happens with two, three or more voices while playing polyphony? Do you really understand meanings and intentions of the thousands of notes written by the ancient masters? How about your own signification? Can you play fast, clean and with expressiveness the huge amount of virtuoso music published for the renaissance lute? Are you able to convince people (all sorts of people) that is worth playing and listening lute and/or lute music, and that there's a whole world to be discovered? Are you capable of improvise divisions or simple two voice counterpoint? Are you able to accompany a singer with sensitivity, clarity and in a very supportive way? More important: Do you enjoy spending most of the day practicing the lute, trying to rise up your skills and to find new meanings to the material you're working with? Are you seriously in love and committed to the fantastic music we're working with? Personally speaking, once I know how to reply the former questions, I would worry about string's materials. Otherwise, I think something is missing. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Summary: gut vers. plastic strings
Obviously you don't get the point. Too bad. With your kind permission, I would like to summarize this interesting discussion. It seems, the pro-plastic party generally features the following lines of thought: 1. Plastic or gut: doesn't make a difference. The more subtle variety would read: it makes a difference, but, like maple and ash, both are suitable for making/stringing a lute. 2. It makes a difference, but it is not woth the extra money. 3. Gut strings are impractical. Examples range from modern concert life to more bizarr incidents, like playing while being wet. 4. Gut stings are inauthentic, because we don't know how they were made. 5. Everything is inauthentic because we are not at least 300 years old. As a lute-tory and gut-bucket kind-a guy, please let me remark: ad 1) The difference can be demonstrated. Even if you don't hear it, plastic strings are still anachronistic; cf. 3. 4. ad 2) Depends on the acuteness of your hearing. Could be extended to: a uke makes a good lute if you are deaf and/or dumb. ad3) Lutes were not made for modern concert life. Even Jacob Herringman's playing turns appalling on a stage in front of 400 people. So let's get rid of concert halls and lighting and play at home or priod music rooms. Use a towel. ad 4) We try to get as close as we can and made big advances in the last decades. Plastic is much further from the original. ad 5) actually quite a good point. I would have my strings made by Count Dracula, but he soaks them in blood and I insist on kosher strings. Best wishes, danyel To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Who wants to sell New Boy a lute?
I am afraid I have to contradict you as far as strings are concerned. Plastic is not the correct material for historic lutes whether you are a beginner or an accomplished connaisseur. If people begin with plastic they often get used to it and think it's what a lute is supposed to sound like. For me it would be like sleeping with a plastic woman. Or an Elizabethan banquet with coca-cola. Really? Why don't you tell that to people like Paul O'dette, Hoppy Smith, Eduardo Egüez, Eugène Ferré, Evangelina Mascardi, Edin Karamazov, and many other very serious players (not to mention myself ) that normally use synthetic strings for different reasons? Just go and tell them that they're wrong: they're not using the correct material for historic lutes, as you said. At least here, there's an important number of very bad players using only expensive gut strings (which is pointless to me), so if I were you I would actually worry more about what are you capable to do with your instrument rather than which sort of strings people should be using. I personally understand and respect the fact that different people have different priorities, but I really disagree with the character of your statements, and don't find very polite the comparisons you've done. Think about it. Saludos, Ariel. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Strings 'n' things (Was New boy..)
It is mainly because synthetic strings have become available that more people can take up the lute! If we had to rely solely on gut-strings, many would give up in exasperation at their short life and their high-price to keep a lute playable. I agree with you. We must be grateful to the professionals who use gut for performances. But, it does make economic sense to use synthetic strings for durability the rest of the time. I think we must be grateful to all professional lute players (gut or synthetic) for the work they do. Everyone has his/her own reason for using one or another string material and sort of instrument. Whether we use Nylon, Nylgut or Carbon, we don't wish to be mocked for that. Each to his/her own and the pleasure we derive from such strings. Again, I agree with you ; ) saludos, A To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Who wants to sell New Boy a lute?
Danyel, You organize your thoughts in a way that really doesn't make me feel like discussing the matter further. You're comparisons are absurd and your assumptions quite risky. Honestly, I don't know who you are, but I'd rather not waste my time exchanging with someone who's as arrogant as ignorant, and sorry for saying it clearly, but it would be worst if I answered to your email in detail. I've been exchanging ideas with a few friends here on the list who are all gut players, and never heard the sort of comments we read in your emails from any of them, although they clearly dislike synthetic strings as well. Talk to them: you might able to learn something. A Ariel, I have thought about it for many years. I am surrounded by people who like nylon, some like it better than gut. Many people like coca cola and some people like breast implants. Many people, including some big names, voted for Bush. Many people 1914 supported WWI, including many celebrities and allegedly intelligent people. They have all been terribly wrong. Some of the players you mention and maybe yourself come from a period where it was the standard argument to refuse gut because the quality wasn't great and nylon supposedly what Dowland had used, would it been available. But I think we are beyond that now. People like Baldock, NRI, Larson, Peruffo, Kuerschner and several others make splendid gut strings and nylons are out, because they are a very crude anachronism. I also don't like the sound, but even if I would it would still be an anachronism. I don't know these people you mentioned in person, hence I won't tell them. But I can't listen to O'dette's and Smith's records, because I don't think it sounds like a renaissance lute (as opposed to Paul Beier, or J. Lindberg, f. Ex.). Sure, shelling out money on gut strings doesn't automatically render you a great player, and of cause you can also waste money on bad gut strings. But really it irritates me that lutanists are so obsessed about saving a buck; I don't think with violinists you would find this kind of argument. If they use steel strings they do it for aesthetical reasons. But would you tolerate a baroque violin with steel strings? Best wishes, danyel To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Gut CD
Can anyone indicate me a CD where the lute is being played with gut strings? Does that include 'no-nails' playing technique as well? Just a few examples: Vieux Gautier, dufaut, mouton, gallot CD's by Hopkinson Smith on original french baroque lute. (which makes the following snippet from ariel clearly not true) Sorry, Taco: that's one cd out of many, and let's don't even speak about live performances, which is in any case what I was talking about. I was actually right. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: An epistle from the gut
Dear all, I quite agree with Ariel's point here. I have been thinking a lot about gut stringing recently, and have already experimented with it on various sorts of instruments over the past few years. First off, I think it was clear that all Ariel meant to say was that Hoppy, etc., use synthetics regularly; he obviously knows that all of these players use gut too, especially on recordings. Nor was he debunking gut strings (I think); rather, he was debunking those who dismiss any other alternative in any circumstance. At least this was my interpretation. A correct interpretation. Thanks!, Ariel. ps: I also use gut strings eventually. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: Arto, USA, and Michelagnolo (was:VERY OFF TOPIC: POLITICS - don't read if you are Bush challenged...)
Dear G=F6ran, I will not get into the discussion myself although, as most of you, have my own views and opinions. In the past, I told Arto and some of the other members what I think about posting this sort of messages to the list. What I personally find to be quite an error, is that you don't follow your own advise (...This is precisely why I have always abstained from trying to propagate religious or political views on this list. We've seen where it leads to. It can't be said enough times. There are heaps and heaps of lists, where people can discuss political or religious matters to their hearts content. There are very few lists, where lovers of the lute are able to do the same. Do you want to pollute it?...) and you tell Arto that he shouldn't do something that you've done yourself extensively, and all in the same email. Your opinions are also as political (whether we-you like it-them or not) and one sided as Arto's, and in strict terms also out of place in this list, according to what you think (and I) it is conceived for. For many years I've been participating in political debates, writing in magazines and discussion groups. I'd be happy to provide information about all these to any of you, if exists the necessity of expressing and sharing thoughts with other individuals about all that sort of items. Here and now, my humble opinion is that I'm happy writing and reading about lutes and lute music here, and uncomfortable with either Arto's of anyone else's political messages. In the past I made the mistake of getting into the arguments taking place on the list, and I regret. Please, excuse my English, and keep in mind that I might not be aware of the courtesy formula for this kind of things. Regards, a -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: Arto, USA, and Michelagnolo (was:VERY OFF TOPIC: POLITICS - don't read if you are Bush challenged...)
Dear Goeran, Did read carefully your email. These, are for instances are political thoughts that you wrote (they were not my invention): The mighty, arrogant capitalist US policy is taking over the world today, whether we like it or not. Normal, simple, decent, peace loving people throughout the world are taking the american way to their hearts, even at the cost of loosing their own national identity, and there isn't a jot either you or I can do about it other than starting some doomsday-sect, joining Greenpeace or Amnesty or hiding in the Amazon jungle Very far from abstention, as anyone can see; and if what you've said aren't personal views: Is there a source of universal and neutral values and truth that I don't yet know? I didn't necessary said that you were giving your own views about the USA, and to me doesn't matter if it is about the US, Vietnam, Argentina or Belize. You were definitively giving your personal appreciation about political aspects, which is fine, as long as this list becomes something different from what it is and we all-or at least most of us- agree. My opinion is that either we let each other say whatever he/she wants, or we avoid completely certain subjects. Personally, I don't think we should allow ourselves to have the best of both worlds: complaining about what the other (not The Other) does, but acting at the same time in the way you condemn. That is, of course my own opinion. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: VERY OFF TOPIC: POLITICS
Of course you and I could point to situations where America has acted badly, but then, who hasn't? I've never been to America, not have I any desire to go there. But I do know that, whatever failings the country may have, I owe my life to them, as do countless millions of other people. They saved me from Nazism, and from Communism. If it ever does come to 'The Clash of Cultures', if for example Islam tries to reclaim Spain, as it claims it wants to, or if any of the other scenarios materialise which wiser heads than mine regard as very possible, it will be the US of that comes to our aid, while Chirac, Schroeder and the rest of them are being sick with fear into the toilet, before capitulating as quickly as they did before. Europeans can only afford their posturing because if something does go wrong, they know that America will once again save them. Can you seriously imagine Chirac or Schroeder doing anything other than bluster before they surrender? Put simply, if my future depends on the EU or America, I'll take America any day. Cheers Is this all serious, or some kind of a joke? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: VERY OFF TOPIC (POLITICS)
You ask 'Is this all serious, or some kind of a joke?' It's all quite serious. and how I feel. Why shouldn't someone admire America and the good it's done? I'm no politician, but reading the other messages on this subject, the others don't seem to be either. Cheers Sorry, I just wanted to make sure. Considering what happened in the list not too far away from now, I rather stay out of the discussion. Again, sorry for asking. a To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: Schelle lute
Also, *Mr.* Abramovich might differ with your manner of addressing him. I believe you and I are now even on that score old friend! :-) Oops! My apologies to Ariel! Eugene No problemo! Ariel. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: Willams Concert
this list, I also favor Yasunori Imamura on de Visee. Eugene I suppose you haven't heard Eduardo Egüez on dV.. RT Yea, I highly recommend Edwardo Egez, as well. I usually put him on when I have problems falling asleep! Kind of like counting sheep, but instead one can literally count the notes he plays so slow. Can do play it any faster or better? Just curious... aa To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: Beards - Final Conclusion
Update: Bearded Eugene Braig IV (I am bearded) Bruno Cognyl-Fournier (I am also bearded) Alain Veylit (I also have a beard) Ariel Abramovich (after years of effort, sort of have one) Clean Shaven Mathias Rösel (I had a Gaultier-beard) Stuart Leblanc (one to three weeks of stubble) Daniel Shoskes (No beard here) That brings the total to 16 bearded and seven clean shaven out of the 23 people who responded. The percentage of those sporting a beard is still remarkably high. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
vihuela in London
Dear friends, I'll be performing a small vihuela recital in London, in which I'll play pieces by Francesco, Narváez, and some other composers. I'd be happy to see some of you there. Details: Sunday 5th December, 12.30 pm in The Pullens Centre (community centre) on the corner of Iliffe Yard, Crampton Street, London SE17. Thanks. Saludos, Ariel. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Chris Wilson
Dear friends, I'm trying to contact Christopher Wilson for = professional purposes, and so far I've only got an email address which = doesn't seem to be functional. Does anyone has a working phone number or a valid postal address? Thanks in advance. Saludos from Sevilla, Ariel. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: fluted ribs
Hi there, I'm afraid that Chambure's vihuela has gained as well universal acceptance, at least within vihuela experts' circle. On the other hand Jacquemart-Andre's vihuela was, as Eugene suggests, built for different purposes than playing music on it(probably a sort of an exam for someone willing to become an official violero). saludos, Ariel. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: FW: iraqi ouds
I do not know if is a good idea to joke about Saddam and Iraq, while the second American hostage has been killed... Paolo Declich Not to speak about the civilians bombed everyday... Ariel. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Vallet (again)
Dear members, I've trying to find and purchase any available edition of Vallet solo = lute music, and so far the only thing I've found, was the second volume, = published by the Dutch LS. All the other books are out of print, as well as the CNRS edition.=20 Is there anyone willing to sell his own copy, or that knows about how to = get one? Many thanks in advance. Regards, Ariel. --
Re: a rose by any other name
I was playing music from argentina a while ago on the guitar when I = was pupil at the conservatory. My teacher was (and is) married to an = argentinian with good connections to the folk scene there. So I had = the pleasure to get a good and comprehensive introduction into this = music. It is really far away from simple music and rather folk art like = *real* flamenco (not that kind you will usually hear being played on the = radio).=20 Those who are still play guitar should try their fingers on the music = of Maximo Diego Pujol (often based on tango nuevo, chacareras, Milongas = etc. my friends made a very recommendable recording: Maximo Diego Pujol: = Tiempo del Hombre, Jutta WenzlaffThomas Bittermann, Cecilia Nieva = Bittermann, no ordering number found - if someone's interested I'll = forward a mail adress).=20 I think some early recordings of Atahualpa Yupanqui are still (or = again) available which are worth to listen to.=20 For those who rather like the more popular side of argentinian = (guitar) music I would like to adress to Jos=E9 Luis Merlin whose = compositions are easier accessible and may give a simple introduction = into the complex topic: Jos=E9 Luis Merlin: Atardecer en las Cuesta = Blanca (Obras de Piazolla, Yupanqui y Merlin), Shamrock Records 1029-2. = Somewhere I have Merlin's email adress but I am not sure if it's still = valid.=20 Best wishes Thomas Argentinean music is a totally different thing. Yupanqui is probably the best thing to look at, if you want to get = into it. Eduardo Fal=FA, is also great. Maximo D P has some nice things, but there're many many excellent = musicians. Well, I studied a life ago with Merl=EDn. His compositions aren't = really representative of Argentinean music, to be honest, although some = of them are fine. --
Re: a rose by any other name
particularly Times Square). The Andean (Bolivia, Peru, etc.) is mainly played on end blown flutes, pan pipes and drums, and is an infectious sound. Would you explain that a bit more extensively? This is obviously not definitive, I am speaking from the top of my head, as usual. But it is clear that the music of the Andes, where the conquistadores amputated the culture of the Inca, has returned to some extent. Whereas the music of Brazil has the African influence along with the Spanish, and has little of the native. Probably Brazilian music has little to do with the Spanish one, as it was Portugal the country where their conquistadores came from. The music of the Appalachians bears a strong resemblance to that of the Scot's/Irish ancestors - but none to the native Indians. Is the music of Central America, and Brazil (etc.) entirely a derivation of the Spanish of that time? Or does it have a native component - I don't know. But the Andean is heavily native. The region of the Andes it is also sub- divided, and it would be more complicated to establish the origin of the music of the different points...
Re: a rose by any other name
Well, I don't think original south Americans had any necessity of playing Spanish music, is that's what you meant. I am not sure at what point exactly attraction turns into necessity, but if it didn't we wouldn't have HANAC PACHAP and other goodies of the sort.. RT That's right, but still we don't know if that comes from attraction or pure colonization. Obviously we can't tell, but what I meant is that probably south Americans had no reasons for imitating vihuelas, as probably Spanish music had little meaning to them, more if we consider how the conquistadores did their business down there. Pure speculation, however. aa
Re: a rose by any other name
My understanding that Jesuit approach at the Missiones was not exactly definable as colonization in the strict sense of the word, and the music there was the part that was meaningful to the both parties involved... RT I should give more reading to the subject, but it is true that the Misiones used a different strategy, which might have caused in the original a different perception of the conquistadores, allowing a higher cultural exchange. That becomes a bit more clearer in later periods. AA
Re: Moot (off topic)
From my humble point of view, you know what's the problem of bringing subjects like all this to the forum? We (the members of this list) don't have the minimum necessary elements for a serious and productive debate about politics, nor a simple fair and productive exchange. In other words: Our perception of word's reality is totally different (our realities are totally different), as well as our values are. Apart from that, we don't even share the same categories, so we don't even have a common language to start with... Methodologically we're already failing. A very easy and quite obvious example: think about what the word freedom means for you, and I guarantee that will have little to do with the meaning I give to libertad. A very concrete example: HR watch is a foundation created ironically by a person (Mr. Soros) who, according to some values, has little respect for human rights (I could go on, but I don't think that's good). At the same time, it is for you a good source of information... It is not a matter of playing the autistic by avoiding any topic not directly linked with lute and music, but all this- music and lutes- is what we actually have in common. That's the place in which we can actually meet, share things, and learn from each other, no matter how different we are (even talking only about that we had difficult moments). What's the point then in finding out about how horrible, selfish, one sided, narrow minded or whatever we might turn resulting to each other? It would be like talking about sexual preferences in the forum. More than a member would be horrified if we all turned to be totally open about it. Don't you think? Personally, I can also delete the emails I'm not interested in, but I prefer to exchange my ideas about some things in some other places. Saludos, A
Re: Vallet. was: French Lute Society
Dear Ed, The Dutch Lute Society publish a facsimile of Vallet's _Le Secret des Muses_. Which is, as far as I can tell, out of catalogue (I was only able to buy two volumes). I hope they re publish the whole thing, as it is a very good edition, with a fairly good price. Regards, A
Re: Nylgut
Dear all, If it is interesting, I've been using nylgut for years, in all of my lutes and vihuelas, and it is true that it takes a short while until you find the right gauges, but once you've done it, it is for my taste the best synthetic option available today in the market. Advantages: nice texture, pretty decent tone and grip, very stable and tolerant to weather changes (I wouldn't tour with gut, personally). I've recently tried the overspun nylgut, and I guess I have to try them for longer, but so far there're the best overspun strings I've ever played. I know that many professional players are using them even for recordings. Saludos, Ariel.
Lute and viol
Dear all, I wonder if any of you could provide some info about = English pieces for lute and viola da gamba of late XVIth century and = early XVIIth. Thanks very much. Saludos from Sevilla, Ariel. --
Respuesta: RE: RV: Facsimeles etc.
Querido Hernán, I wish I could write you in Spanish, but wouldn't be reasonable. I'm not blaming composers for publishing abroad. They publish where they can. I blame myself for not supporting local companies, or even foreign companies, by not buying what I would be able to buy. Does Warner own more than Editorial Lagos? I must confess I know nothing about that. The failure of our local and international companies has nothing to do with how much we support them. It is a bit more complex than that, and a logical explanation would necessary take us into an off-topic sub. (not again). Seems to be that most of us we do efforts to buy what we can buy (talking always about what were talking). What doesnt seem to be so easy to understand for some of the respectable members of the list, is that therere many different realities and perceptions of one same reality, depending of where you are and what you do. Muchos saludos, y a tu disposición para cualquier ayuda (viajo a Baires en febrero, si hiciera falta algo). Ariel. There are no lutenists around here. There should be half a dozen around metropolitan Buenos Aires, right? And at least one in Mar del Plata. Yes, and that's why Hoppy comes to Argentina every now and then, we're all very grateful to him for that. What I meant was, I'm not asking for donations for my Conservatory's library or for me, there are no lutenists in Bahia Blanca (700km away from Buenos Aires, 400km away from Mar del Plata). I wish there were. But if you want to make any donationsI won't stop you. :-) Roman, you're doing enough already by making available music for download. Thanks. I have the music, I'm sorry it's not possible to download a lute. :-) Well, I'll just keep playing this stuff on the guitar, then (sorry). Regards, Hernán.
Respuesta: Re: Facsimeles etc.
Dear Michael, I've learned the lesson too late (no one warned me), but seriously: this doesn't make any sense. It is not about an exchange, as it wasn't the last time we had a similar episode... Many of us would agree with many of your points, as you had the chance to see. We'll keep doing what we think is fair, and that's it. We should keep the explanations and questions for receptive individuals, and avoid any nonsense confrontation. Just an idea. Saludos, Ariel.
Respuesta: Adopt-a-lutenist
- I'll be back in about three days (I'm playing a gig), and we can talk about the details. I'd love to help in whatever I can. Roman, you can contact me directly if you think that would make it easier. Saludos, Ariel
