[LUTE] Re: Arcadelt
Sean: Thanks for the suggestion, and I really should try my hand at in tabulating some simple 3 or 4 voice works. But when I have tried arranging even just 3 voices on lute, it feels rather like trying to sleep 3 adults in a child's bed; I've never gotten comfortable with the results- Cheers, ted jordan -Original Message- From: Sean Smith To: lute Sent: Wed, Nov 6, 2019 1:49 pm Subject: [LUTE] Re: Arcadelt Theoj89294, Jacob Arcadelt is wonderful composer to try your hand at transcribing vocal works if you don't see them elsewhere. The thinner textured French pieces are easier to work with and were even considered acceptable on the 4-course guitar. With one of the 4-c intabs of this piece and the vocal original you fill it out more thoroughly on the lute since there were inevitably some corners cut. Let Adrian, Albert and Melchior do the harder 4-part material of Crequillon, Sandrin and Rogier but there's a lot to learn from Arcadelt precisely because it's easier to work with. If it gets too easy why not try filling it out with passaggi, writing a second part, or even singing the vocal line? (some other things musicians did beside play a composer's notes on the page). The 5th of the Adrian LeRoy 4-course guitar books has a lot of Arcadelt set for voice and guitar but they are easily transcribed for lute. See also Arcadelt's O felici occhi miei in Ortiz 1553 for ideas on decorating a Cantus or adding a new line altogether. Personally, I find his French pieces a relief after his more difficult Italian vocal works. His Italian madrigals can be a handful (See Vindella's 1546 work dedicated to JA) but he had a solid lute following in any event and pieces like Cosi mi guida were very popular. All I'm trying to say is that Arcadelt is a good vocal composer to work with for 16th century lutenists, then and now. my 2c, Sean On Wed, Nov 6, 2019 at 6:54 AM Rainer <[1]rads.bera_g...@t-online.de> wrote: Should be "nous voyons que les hommes". According to Brown there are two intabulations for guitar - a bit thin for the lute. Rainer Am 05.11.2019 um 23:42 schrieb [2]theoj89...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu: > Lutetopia: > Does anyone know if there is an in tabulation of the Arcadelt chanson > "nous voyons ques les hommes"? (It is a charming little tune). Thanks > trj > > -- > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > -- References 1. mailto:rads.bera_g...@t-online.de 2. mailto:theoj89...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[LUTE] Re: Arcadelt
--76b3690596b45b45 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is the only setting that I have been able to find, it's in the Uppsala Ms. ''Codex carminum gallorum'' on fol. 6R (facsimile at http://www.alvin-portal.org/alvin/view.jsf?pid=alvin-record%3A209450=4044 ) [image: Nous voyons.jpg] André Nieuwlaat Op di 5 nov. 2019 om 23:43 schreef : >Lutetopia: >Does anyone know if there is an in tabulation of the Arcadelt chanson >"nous voyons ques les hommes"? (It is a charming little tune). Thanks >trj > >-- > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > --76b3690596b45b45 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is the only setting that I have been able to find, its in the Uppsala Ms. Codex carminum gallorum on fol. 6R (facsimile at http://www.alvin-portal.org/alvin/view.jsf?pid=alvin-record%3A209450dswid=4044;>http://www.alvin-portal.org/alvin/view.jsf?pid=alvin-record%3A209450dswid=4044)André NieuwlaatOp di 5 nov. 2019 om 23:43 schreef mailto:theoj89...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu;>theoj89...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu:  Lutetopia:   Does anyone know if there is an in tabulation of the Arcadelt chanson   nous voyons ques les hommes? (It is a charming little tune). Thanks   trj   -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html; rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --76b3690596b45b45-- --
[LUTE] Re: Arcadelt
Hi Sarge - this list does not accept attachments.WayneBegin forwarded message:From: "Frank A. Gerbode, M.D." mailto:sa...@gerbode.net; class="">sa...@gerbode.netSubject: [LUTE] Re: ArcadeltDate: November 6, 2019 at 1:54:35 PM ESTTo: ! mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; class="">lute@cs.dartmouth.eduHmmm. Looks like the attachments didn't go through. Does this list not accept attachments?In any case, the files will be accessible for a short time at http://gerbode.net/ftp; class="">http://gerbode.net/ftp--SargeOn 11/6/2019 10:44, Frank A. Gerbode, M.D. wrote:--D41830CF615DFBC1BEDBF55AContent-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowedContent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bitHere is a literal intabulation I made of the 3-part chanson, transposeda fourth down. It/is/ a bit thin, but could be beefed up a bit and a fewornaments or divisions added.--! SargeOn 11/6/2019 06:53, Rainer wrote:Should be "nous voyons que les hommes".According to Brown there are two intabulations for guitar - a bit thinfor the lute.RainerAm 05.11.2019 um 23:42 schrieb mailto:theoj89...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu; class="">theoj89...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu:ÃÃÃ Lutetopia:ÃÃÃ Does anyone know if there is an in tabulation of the ArcadeltchansonÃÃÃ "nous voyons ques les hommes"? (It is a charming little tune).ThanksÃÃÃ trjÃÃÃ --To get on or off this list see list information athttp://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html; class="! ">http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html--Frank A. Gerbode, M.D. (mailto:sa...@gerbode.net; class="">sa...@gerbode.net)11132 Dell AveForestville, CA 95436-9491Home phone: 707-820-1759Website: http://www.gerbode.net; class="">http://www.gerbode.net"The map may not be the territory, but it's all we've got."--D41830CF615DFBC1BEDBF55AContent-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bithtml head meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" /head body text="#00" bgcolor="#FF"! ; Here is a literal intabulation I made of the 3-part chanson, transposed a fourth down. Iti is/i a bit thin, but could be beefed up a bit and a few ornaments or divisions added.br br --Sargebr br div class="moz-cite-prefix"On 11/6/2019 06:53, Rainer wrote:br /div blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:mailto:10-08115d63-65e6-e915-81f9-1df237555...@t-online.de; class="">10-08115d63-65e6-e915-81f9-1df237555...@t-online.de"Should be "nous voyons que les hommes". br ! sp;br According to Brown there are two intabulations for guitar - a bit thin for the lute. br br Rainer br br Am 05.11.2019 um 23:42 schrieb a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:theoj89...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu; class="">mailto:theoj89...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu"mailto:theoj89...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu; class="">theoj89...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu/a: ! bsp;br blockquote type="cite"ÃÃÃ Lutetopia: br ÃÃÃ Does anyone know if there is an in tabulation of the Arcadelt chanson br ÃÃÃ "nous voyons ques les hommes"? (It is a charming little tune). Thanks br ÃÃÃ trj br ! sp;br ! bsp;ÃÃÃ -- br br br To get on or off this list see list information at br a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html; class="">http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html"http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html; class="">http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html/a br br ! p;/blockquote br br br /blockquote br pre class="moz-signature" cols="72"--Frank A. Gerbode, M.D. (a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:sa...@gerbode.net; class="">mailto:sa...@gerbode.net"mailto:sa...@gerbode.net; class="">sa...@gerbode.net/a)11132 Dell AveForestville, CA 95436-9491Home phone: 707-820-1759Website: a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.gerbode.net; class="">http://www.gerbode.net"http://www.gerbode.net; class="">http://www.gerbode.net/a"The map may not be the territory, but it's all we've got."! ;/pre /body/html--D41830CF615DFBC1BEDBF55A-- Frank A. Gerbode, M.D. (mailto:sa...@gerbode.net; class="">sa...@gerbode.net)11132 Dell AveForestville, CA 95436-9491Home phone: 707-820-1759Website: http://www.gerbode.net; class="">http://www.gerbode.net"The map may not be the territory, but it's all we've got." --
[LUTE] Re: Arcadelt
Hmmm. Looks like the attachments didn't go through. Does this list not accept attachments? In any case, the files will be accessible for a short time at http://gerbode.net/ftp --Sarge On 11/6/2019 10:44, Frank A. Gerbode, M.D. wrote: --D41830CF615DFBC1BEDBF55A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Here is a literal intabulation I made of the 3-part chanson, transposed a fourth down. It/is/ a bit thin, but could be beefed up a bit and a few ornaments or divisions added. --Sarge On 11/6/2019 06:53, Rainer wrote: Should be "nous voyons que les hommes". According to Brown there are two intabulations for guitar - a bit thin for the lute. Rainer Am 05.11.2019 um 23:42 schrieb theoj89...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu:    Lutetopia:    Does anyone know if there is an in tabulation of the Arcadelt chanson    "nous voyons ques les hommes"? (It is a charming little tune). Thanks    trj    -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Frank A. Gerbode, M.D. (sa...@gerbode.net) 11132 Dell Ave Forestville, CA 95436-9491 Home phone: 707-820-1759 Website: http://www.gerbode.net "The map may not be the territory, but it's all we've got." --D41830CF615DFBC1BEDBF55A Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Here is a literal intabulation I made of the 3-part chanson, transposed a fourth down. It is a bit thin, but could be beefed up a bit and a few ornaments or divisions added. --Sarge On 11/6/2019 06:53, Rainer wrote: Should be "nous voyons que les hommes". According to Brown there are two intabulations for guitar - a bit thin for the lute. Rainer Am 05.11.2019 um 23:42 schrieb mailto:theoj89...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu;>theoj89...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu:    Lutetopia:    Does anyone know if there is an in tabulation of the Arcadelt chanson    "nous voyons ques les hommes"? (It is a charming little tune). Thanks    trj    -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html;>http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Frank A. Gerbode, M.D. (mailto:sa...@gerbode.net;>sa...@gerbode.net) 11132 Dell Ave Forestville, CA 95436-9491 Home phone: 707-820-1759 Website: http://www.gerbode.net;>http://www.gerbode.net "The map may not be the territory, but it's all we've got." --D41830CF615DFBC1BEDBF55A-- -- -- Frank A. Gerbode, M.D. (sa...@gerbode.net) 11132 Dell Ave Forestville, CA 95436-9491 Home phone: 707-820-1759 Website: http://www.gerbode.net "The map may not be the territory, but it's all we've got."
[LUTE] Re: Arcadelt
Theoj89294, Jacob Arcadelt is wonderful composer to try your hand at transcribing vocal works if you don't see them elsewhere. The thinner textured French pieces are easier to work with and were even considered acceptable on the 4-course guitar. With one of the 4-c intabs of this piece and the vocal original you fill it out more thoroughly on the lute since there were inevitably some corners cut. Let Adrian, Albert and Melchior do the harder 4-part material of Crequillon, Sandrin and Rogier but there's a lot to learn from Arcadelt precisely because it's easier to work with. If it gets too easy why not try filling it out with passaggi, writing a second part, or even singing the vocal line? (some other things musicians did beside play a composer's notes on the page). The 5th of the Adrian LeRoy 4-course guitar books has a lot of Arcadelt set for voice and guitar but they are easily transcribed for lute. See also Arcadelt's O felici occhi miei in Ortiz 1553 for ideas on decorating a Cantus or adding a new line altogether. Personally, I find his French pieces a relief after his more difficult Italian vocal works. His Italian madrigals can be a handful (See Vindella's 1546 work dedicated to JA) but he had a solid lute following in any event and pieces like Cosi mi guida were very popular. All I'm trying to say is that Arcadelt is a good vocal composer to work with for 16th century lutenists, then and now. my 2c, Sean On Wed, Nov 6, 2019 at 6:54 AM Rainer <[1]rads.bera_g...@t-online.de> wrote: Should be "nous voyons que les hommes". According to Brown there are two intabulations for guitar - a bit thin for the lute. Rainer Am 05.11.2019 um 23:42 schrieb [2]theoj89...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu: > Lutetopia: > Does anyone know if there is an in tabulation of the Arcadelt chanson > "nous voyons ques les hommes"? (It is a charming little tune). Thanks > trj > > -- > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > -- References 1. mailto:rads.bera_g...@t-online.de 2. mailto:theoj89...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Arcadelt
--D41830CF615DFBC1BEDBF55A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Here is a literal intabulation I made of the 3-part chanson, transposed a fourth down. It/is/ a bit thin, but could be beefed up a bit and a few ornaments or divisions added. --Sarge On 11/6/2019 06:53, Rainer wrote: > Should be "nous voyons que les hommes". > > According to Brown there are two intabulations for guitar - a bit thin > for the lute. > > Rainer > > Am 05.11.2019 um 23:42 schrieb theoj89...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu: >>    Lutetopia: >>    Does anyone know if there is an in tabulation of the Arcadelt >> chanson >>    "nous voyons ques les hommes"? (It is a charming little tune). >> Thanks >>    trj >> >>    -- >> >> >> To get on or off this list see list information at >> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >> > > > -- Frank A. Gerbode, M.D. (sa...@gerbode.net) 11132 Dell Ave Forestville, CA 95436-9491 Home phone: 707-820-1759 Website: http://www.gerbode.net "The map may not be the territory, but it's all we've got." --D41830CF615DFBC1BEDBF55A Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Here is a literal intabulation I made of the 3-part chanson, transposed a fourth down. It is a bit thin, but could be beefed up a bit and a few ornaments or divisions added. --Sarge On 11/6/2019 06:53, Rainer wrote: Should be "nous voyons que les hommes". According to Brown there are two intabulations for guitar - a bit thin for the lute. Rainer Am 05.11.2019 um 23:42 schrieb mailto:theoj89...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu;>theoj89...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu:    Lutetopia:    Does anyone know if there is an in tabulation of the Arcadelt chanson    "nous voyons ques les hommes"? (It is a charming little tune). Thanks    trj    -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html;>http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Frank A. Gerbode, M.D. (mailto:sa...@gerbode.net;>sa...@gerbode.net) 11132 Dell Ave Forestville, CA 95436-9491 Home phone: 707-820-1759 Website: http://www.gerbode.net;>http://www.gerbode.net "The map may not be the territory, but it's all we've got." --D41830CF615DFBC1BEDBF55A-- --
[LUTE] Re: Arcadelt
Should be "nous voyons que les hommes". According to Brown there are two intabulations for guitar - a bit thin for the lute. Rainer Am 05.11.2019 um 23:42 schrieb theoj89...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu: Lutetopia: Does anyone know if there is an in tabulation of the Arcadelt chanson "nous voyons ques les hommes"? (It is a charming little tune). Thanks trj -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
