[LUTE] Re: intabulations
> On Jul 30, 2018, at 1:12 AM, Ed Durbrow wrote: > > Doug gives the number 1,200 intabulations in the 16th century, which he says > is half of the published Italian lute pieces. This number seems low (maybe > needs another zero?) Not likely. The key word is “published." To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: intabulations
On Jul 30, 2018, at 12:17 AM, David van Ooijen wrote: > Find attached a paragraph from the chapter on Italian 16th century music from > the book by DA Smith. > > David Thanks for pointing me towards this, David. I have the book. I had looked through it. Your eye and memory is better than mine. So, pages 96-98. Doug gives the number 1,200 intabulations in the 16th century, which he says is half of the published Italian lute pieces. This number seems low (maybe needs another zero?), especially since further down on the page he says Vincenzo Galilei intabulated 3,000 pieces himself. Galilei was Italian and living in the 16th century, so something is off. I had heard the estimate of half before, but half of what? I can well believe half of Italian lute pieces in the first half of the century. All lute pieces? Renaissance? or just the Italian printed sources? There are very few intabulations in English sources, for example, which is a huge chunk of the Ren repertoire. At least I can repeat half of the published Italian sources were intabulations according to D. Smith. On Jul 30, 2018, at 12:17 AM, David van Ooijen wrote: > Find attached a paragraph from the chapter on Italian 16th century music from > the book by DA Smith. > > David > > > > > *** > David van Ooijen > davidvanooi...@gmail.com > www.davidvanooijen.nl > *** Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch https://soundcloud.com/ed-durbrow http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: intabulations
On Jul 30, 2018, at 12:17 AM, David van Ooijen wrote: > Find attached a paragraph from the chapter on Italian 16th century music from > the book by DA Smith. > > David Thanks for pointing me towards this, David. I have the book. I had looked through it. Your eye and memory is better than mine. So, pages 96-98. Doug gives the number 1,200 intabulations in the 16th century, which he says is half of the published Italian lute pieces. This number seems low (maybe needs another zero?), especially since further down on the page he says Vincenzo Galilei intabulated 3,000 pieces himself. Galilei was Italian and living in the 16th century, so something is off. I had heard the estimate of half before, but half of what? I can well believe half of Italian lute pieces in the first half of the century. All lute pieces? Renaissance? or just the Italian printed sources? There are very few intabulations in English sources, for example, which is a huge chunk of the Ren repertoire. At least I can repeat half of the published Italian sources were intabulations according to D. Smith. On Jul 30, 2018, at 12:17 AM, David van Ooijen wrote: > Find attached a paragraph from the chapter on Italian 16th century music from > the book by DA Smith. > > David > > > > > *** > David van Ooijen > davidvanooi...@gmail.com > www.davidvanooijen.nl > *** Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch https://soundcloud.com/ed-durbrow http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: intabulations
I thought recent research said that the lute has a greater repertoire
than any other instrument, with over fifty thousand pieces surviving,
not counting those lost.
Sterling
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
Original message
From: "Edward C. Yong"
Date: 7/29/18 9:25 PM (GMT-07:00)
To: Ed Durbrow
Cc: LuteNet list
Subject: [LUTE] Re: intabulations
< I've heard that outside of the piano and possibly violin there is
more lute music than for any other instrument.>
i'm wondering if 'piano' here includes the harpsichord repertoire. a
fascinating topic to be sure...
On 29 July 2018 at 22:43, Ed Durbrow <[1]edurb...@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm giving a talk on the lute next week and I was searching for a
statistic about how much of the Renaissance lute repertoire
consist
of intabulations.
Also, I am looking for statistics (estimates really) of how many
tabs there are and could have been and how many songs with in
tabulation there are. I've heard that outside of the piano and
possibly violin there is more lute music than for any other
instrument. I want to back that up. If you could point me to some
research or quotes somewhere on the Internet, I would be much
obliged.
Thanks in advance.
Ed Durbrow
Saitama, Japan
[2]http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch
[3]https://soundcloud.com/ed-durbrow
[4]http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/
--
To get on or off this list see list information at
[5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
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References
1. mailto:edurb...@gmail.com
2. http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch
3. https://soundcloud.com/ed-durbrow
4. http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/
5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: intabulations
< I've heard that outside of the piano and possibly violin there is more lute music than for any other instrument.> i'm wondering if 'piano' here includes the harpsichord repertoire. a fascinating topic to be sure... On 29 July 2018 at 22:43, Ed Durbrow <[1]edurb...@gmail.com> wrote: I'm giving a talk on the lute next week and I was searching for a statistic about how much of the Renaissance lute repertoire consist of intabulations. Also, I am looking for statistics (estimates really) of how many tabs there are and could have been and how many songs with in tabulation there are. I've heard that outside of the piano and possibly violin there is more lute music than for any other instrument. I want to back that up. If you could point me to some research or quotes somewhere on the Internet, I would be much obliged. Thanks in advance. Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan [2]http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch [3]https://soundcloud.com/ed-durbrow [4]http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ -- To get on or off this list see list information at [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:edurb...@gmail.com 2. http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch 3. https://soundcloud.com/ed-durbrow 4. http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: intabulations
On Jul 30, 2018, at 5:12 AM, Ralf Mattes wrote: > > Am Sonntag, 29. Juli 2018 16:43 CEST, Ed Durbrow schrieb: > >> Im giving a talk on the lute next week and I was searching for a statistic >> about how much of the Renaissance lute repertoire consist of intabulations. >> Also, I am looking for statistics (estimates really) of how many tabs there >> are and could have been and how many songs with in tabulation there are. >> Ive heard that outside of the piano and possibly violin there is more lute >> music than for any other instrument. I want to back that up. If you could >> point me to some research or quotes somewhere on the Internet, I would be >> much obliged. > > Your talk is in one week? Sounds like: > > https://i.redd.it/n8i4oh04h4cz.jpg Ha, ha. That is my usual method. Actually, Ive given talks before but it has been a while and the audience will be musicians so I want to polish it up. > More serious: there can't be any such data - not only did only a rather small > sample of music survive the > turmoils of time, we have no idea how representative of the music played back > then our surviving material is. There can only be estimates of what was. However, of the known pieces that exist in museums and such, it is possible to classify and count the numbers of dances, intabulations and freely composed pieces. Someone must have hazarded a guess. Ive heard some of the guesses. I just cant remember the number (was it half or 1/3) and I want to see it in writing. Maybe Ill wait until the day before :-) Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch https://soundcloud.com/ed-durbrow http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: intabulations
Am Sonntag, 29. Juli 2018 16:43 CEST, Ed Durbrow schrieb: > I’m giving a talk on the lute next week and I was searching for a statistic > about how much of the Renaissance lute repertoire consist of intabulations. > Also, I am looking for statistics (estimates really) of how many tabs there > are and could have been and how many songs with in tabulation there are. I’ve > heard that outside of the piano and possibly violin there is more lute music > than for any other instrument. I want to back that up. If you could point me > to some research or quotes somewhere on the Internet, I would be much obliged. Your talk is in one week? Sounds like: https://i.redd.it/n8i4oh04h4cz.jpg ;-) More serious: there can't be any such data - not only did only a rather small sample of music survive the turmoils of time, we have no idea how representative of the music played back then our surviving material is. The Capirola lute book explicitly admits that it tries to twist natural selection ;-) Were intabulations really that popular, or were they a good market item because there production was so time-consuming (and hence one would rather buy those and save time instead of buying dances which could be reproduced after some careful listening). I've often heard claims about the volume of lute music, but I never found some convincing data. I guess it's mostly gut-feeling of lute players (who often don't know or neglect the fast amount of organ intabulations). Have fun with your lecture, Cheers, RalfD > Thanks in advance. > > Ed Durbrow > Saitama, Japan > http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch > https://soundcloud.com/ed-durbrow > http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ > > > > > > > > > -- > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: intabulations
Hello, I have published some insights about Sarge Gerbode's tablature collection a while ago on our blog: [1]http://cuerdaspulsadas.es/blog/un-analisis-de-la-coleccion-de-tablat uras-de-sarge-gerbode/ Check out the section related to musical forms. It is not a comprehensive work but you can have a good idea about that and other related topics. Regards El dom., 29 jul. 2018 19:31, Dmitry Medvedev <[2]d.p.medve...@gmail.com> escribió: Not really answering your question, but for the vihuela repertoire (~700 works) the percentage is roughly this: Intabulations and songs: ~60% Fantasias: ~30% Variations, dances, tientos, glosas etc: ~10% The numbers are taken from an article by John Griffiths "At Court and at Home with the Vihuela de mano", I rounded them up very slightly. This is, of course, not representative of the entire Renaissance lute repertoire. Dmitry On 7/29/2018 10:43 AM, Ed Durbrow wrote: > I'm giving a talk on the lute next week and I was searching for a statistic about how much of the Renaissance lute repertoire consist of intabulations. > Also, I am looking for statistics (estimates really) of how many tabs there are and could have been and how many songs with in tabulation there are. I've heard that outside of the piano and possibly violin there is more lute music than for any other instrument. I want to back that up. If you could point me to some research or quotes somewhere on the Internet, I would be much obliged. > Thanks in advance. > > Ed Durbrow > Saitama, Japan > [3]http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch > [4]https://soundcloud.com/ed-durbrow > [5]http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ > > > > > > > > > -- > > To get on or off this list see list information at > [6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://cuerdaspulsadas.es/blog/un-analisis-de-la-coleccion-de-tablaturas-de-sarge-gerbode/ 2. mailto:d.p.medve...@gmail.com 3. http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch 4. https://soundcloud.com/ed-durbrow 5. http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ 6. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: intabulations
Not really answering your question, but for the vihuela repertoire (~700 works) the percentage is roughly this: Intabulations and songs: ~60% Fantasias: ~30% Variations, dances, tientos, glosas etc: ~10% The numbers are taken from an article by John Griffiths "At Court and at Home with the Vihuela de mano", I rounded them up very slightly. This is, of course, not representative of the entire Renaissance lute repertoire. Dmitry On 7/29/2018 10:43 AM, Ed Durbrow wrote: I’m giving a talk on the lute next week and I was searching for a statistic about how much of the Renaissance lute repertoire consist of intabulations. Also, I am looking for statistics (estimates really) of how many tabs there are and could have been and how many songs with in tabulation there are. I’ve heard that outside of the piano and possibly violin there is more lute music than for any other instrument. I want to back that up. If you could point me to some research or quotes somewhere on the Internet, I would be much obliged. Thanks in advance. Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch https://soundcloud.com/ed-durbrow http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: intabulations
Ed, I asked Paul O'Dette at the LSA seminar last month about the general ratio between dances, fantasies/ricercars and intabulations in the 16th century. He put it at about one third for each. Sean On Sun, Jul 29, 2018 at 7:43 AM, Ed Durbrow <[1]edurb...@gmail.com> wrote: I'm giving a talk on the lute next week and I was searching for a statistic about how much of the Renaissance lute repertoire consist of intabulations. Also, I am looking for statistics (estimates really) of how many tabs there are and could have been and how many songs with in tabulation there are. I've heard that outside of the piano and possibly violin there is more lute music than for any other instrument. I want to back that up. If you could point me to some research or quotes somewhere on the Internet, I would be much obliged. Thanks in advance. Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan [2]http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch [3]https://soundcloud.com/ed-durbrow [4]http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ -- To get on or off this list see list information at [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:edurb...@gmail.com 2. http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch 3. https://soundcloud.com/ed-durbrow 4. http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] re-intabulations
hello collective wisdom, some of you know, that I'm mad for old books. some years ago, I bought Denkmaeler der Tonkunst in Oesterreich - Band 37: Oesterreichische Lautenmusik im XVI. Jahrhundert from the year 1959. I think the book is from an estate of a lute player. inside are english annotaions and a handful of re-intabulations from the staff notations of lute music: some dances by judenkunig, newsidler (f.e. wascha mesa), bakfark and some fragments. I think, he or she was a skilled player. someone knows the hand? I scanned the re-intabulations: [1]http://www.mediafire.com/?p63td7e7nu07ja3 greetings w. -- References 1. http://www.mediafire.com/?p63td7e7nu07ja3 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
