Re: really bad deals and reentrant tuning
On Martedì, giu 8, 2004, at 07:10 Europe/Rome, Jon Murphy wrote: What is re-entrant tuning. reentrant tuning is when the strings you would normally expect to be lower are actually higher in pitch - nearer to the 1st string than the last. in other words the strings don't run in a progressive order from high to low. now i've got one for you: what's a demisemiquaver? as for really bad deals and someone borrowing my address to do who knows what with it: i'm reliably informed that the best way to avoid this is to not send emails to anyone with a windows computer who doesn't use anti-virus and who opens enclosures without being 'very careful'. can i see a show of hands, please... - bill
Re: really bad deals and reentrant tuning
On Martedì, giu 8, 2004, at 07:10 Europe/Rome, Jon Murphy wrote: What is re-entrant tuning. --I thought re-entrant tuning was when you stop the other guys from playing so you get a second chance to tune. --In a solo setting, re-entrant tuning means to stop mid-way through a piece to adjust the tuning so that difficult fingerings are made easier to play. Jimmy Hendrix used it a lot, but because he was a sloppy player, he did not bother to stop playing. --Re-entrant tuning is to be distinguished from recursive tuning: recursive tuning consists in successively tuning the same string to all the pitches needed for your instrument. --To tune a lute: tighten the chanterelle carefully until it breaks, then unwind a quarter turn. Finally, tune all the other strings on the chanterelle. --Tuning: the act by which a perfectly good instrument is made to sound totally off. --Temperament: the state of mind or mood that follows an attempt to tune your instrument. Traditionally, among lutenists, temperaments go from choleric to depressed (or melancholic). --Equal temperament: a state of persistent despondency following many failed attempts to tune. Sometimes results in an attempt to tune all the strings to the same pitch to make it easier. --Chromatic scale: the results of applying different colors to all the courses on your archlute so as to give a chance to your right hand to know which one is which (see also under Rainbow coalition) --High-fifth: what two lutenists give to each other after tuning to each other. --Thumb under: what 2 lutenists get for failing to tune successfully to each other --Re-entrant tuning is also used to describe the particular sound of a lute hitting the ground really hard after yet another failed attempt at tuning it - probably by analogy with a re-entry into the atmosphere. (see also under sonic boom) --D minor tuning: as opposed to major tuning, i.e. when you only bother to tune all courses up from the fourth one, carefully leaving the bourdons untouched. --Octave tuning: describes the attempt at replacing a broken bass string with fishing line --Sonic boom: the sound made by a theorbo that was tuned just a tad too high, thereby separating the neck from the bowl. --Pythagorean ratios: an act of revenge taken by mathematicians on musicians --Tuning with gut is generally more difficult because it involves letting your instinct tell you exactly where 415MHz is as well as chose what gauges to use for each course. --Ashcroft tuning: designates a long period of silence in a classical music concert hall. --Ashcroft tuning (2): the attempt to tune your lute as if it were a 5-string banjo in order to be able to apply for an NEH grant. (generally followed by a sonic boom) --Tuned in fourths: when you only bother to tune every fourth string --Tuned in fifths: no one is lazy enough in the lute world to do it, but widely in use in the violin family of instruments If you don't get all the jokes above, you have not been playing the lute long enough... Alain
Re: really bad deals and reentrant tuning
Dear Alain, that's wonderful! You saved my evening after a particular hard day. I'm going to try to tune my lute now ... Cheers, Joachim Alain Veylit [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: On Martedì, giu 8, 2004, at 07:10 Europe/Rome, Jon Murphy wrote: What is re-entrant tuning. --I thought re-entrant tuning was when you stop the other guys from playing so you get a second chance to tune. --In a solo setting, re-entrant tuning means to stop mid-way through a piece to adjust the tuning so that difficult fingerings are made easier to play. Jimmy Hendrix used it a lot, but because he was a sloppy player, he did not bother to stop playing. --Re-entrant tuning is to be distinguished from recursive tuning: recursive tuning consists in successively tuning the same string to all the pitches needed for your instrument. --To tune a lute: tighten the chanterelle carefully until it breaks, then unwind a quarter turn. Finally, tune all the other strings on the chanterelle. --Tuning: the act by which a perfectly good instrument is made to sound totally off. --Temperament: the state of mind or mood that follows an attempt to tune your instrument. Traditionally, among lutenists, temperaments go from choleric to depressed (or melancholic). --Equal temperament: a state of persistent despondency following many failed attempts to tune. Sometimes results in an attempt to tune all the strings to the same pitch to make it easier. --Chromatic scale: the results of applying different colors to all the courses on your archlute so as to give a chance to your right hand to know which one is which (see also under Rainbow coalition) --High-fifth: what two lutenists give to each other after tuning to each other. --Thumb under: what 2 lutenists get for failing to tune successfully to each other --Re-entrant tuning is also used to describe the particular sound of a lute hitting the ground really hard after yet another failed attempt at tuning it - probably by analogy with a re-entry into the atmosphere. (see also under sonic boom) --D minor tuning: as opposed to major tuning, i.e. when you only bother to tune all courses up from the fourth one, carefully leaving the bourdons untouched. --Octave tuning: describes the attempt at replacing a broken bass string with fishing line --Sonic boom: the sound made by a theorbo that was tuned just a tad too high, thereby separating the neck from the bowl. --Pythagorean ratios: an act of revenge taken by mathematicians on musicians --Tuning with gut is generally more difficult because it involves letting your instinct tell you exactly where 415MHz is as well as chose what gauges to use for each course. --Ashcroft tuning: designates a long period of silence in a classical music concert hall. --Ashcroft tuning (2): the attempt to tune your lute as if it were a 5-string banjo in order to be able to apply for an NEH grant. (generally followed by a sonic boom) --Tuned in fourths: when you only bother to tune every fourth string --Tuned in fifths: no one is lazy enough in the lute world to do it, but widely in use in the violin family of instruments If you don't get all the jokes above, you have not been playing the lute long enough... Alain -- Dr. Joachim Luedtke Frühlingsstraße 9a D - 93164 Laaber Tlf.: ++49 / +9498 / 905 188 Mobil: 0172 / 275 49 48 Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: really bad deals and reentrant tuning
Charles, Hence the definition of the Nigerian scam: an out-of-tune one-string lute from that country... Alain PS: Ashcroft tuning(3): the act of clipping strings on the wrong side of the bridge. At 10:04 AM 6/8/2004, Charles Browne wrote: recursive tuning would certainly be useful for a nigerian single stringed lute . It sounds a bit like the Theramin! Charles -Original Message- From: Alain Veylit [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 08 June 2004 17:43 To: bill; Jon Murphy Cc: James A Stimson; lute society Subject: Re: really bad deals and reentrant tuning On Martedì, giu 8, 2004, at 07:10 Europe/Rome, Jon Murphy wrote: What is re-entrant tuning. --I thought re-entrant tuning was when you stop the other guys from playing so you get a second chance to tune. --In a solo setting, re-entrant tuning means to stop mid-way through a piece to adjust the tuning so that difficult fingerings are made easier to play. Jimmy Hendrix used it a lot, but because he was a sloppy player, he did not bother to stop playing. --Re-entrant tuning is to be distinguished from recursive tuning: recursive tuning consists in successively tuning the same string to all the pitches needed for your instrument. --To tune a lute: tighten the chanterelle carefully until it breaks, then unwind a quarter turn. Finally, tune all the other strings on the chanterelle. --Tuning: the act by which a perfectly good instrument is made to sound totally off. --Temperament: the state of mind or mood that follows an attempt to tune your instrument. Traditionally, among lutenists, temperaments go from choleric to depressed (or melancholic). --Equal temperament: a state of persistent despondency following many failed attempts to tune. Sometimes results in an attempt to tune all the strings to the same pitch to make it easier. --Chromatic scale: the results of applying different colors to all the courses on your archlute so as to give a chance to your right hand to know which one is which (see also under Rainbow coalition) --High-fifth: what two lutenists give to each other after tuning to each other. --Thumb under: what 2 lutenists get for failing to tune successfully to each other --Re-entrant tuning is also used to describe the particular sound of a lute hitting the ground really hard after yet another failed attempt at tuning it - probably by analogy with a re-entry into the atmosphere. (see also under sonic boom) --D minor tuning: as opposed to major tuning, i.e. when you only bother to tune all courses up from the fourth one, carefully leaving the bourdons untouched. --Octave tuning: describes the attempt at replacing a broken bass string with fishing line --Sonic boom: the sound made by a theorbo that was tuned just a tad too high, thereby separating the neck from the bowl. --Pythagorean ratios: an act of revenge taken by mathematicians on musicians --Tuning with gut is generally more difficult because it involves letting your instinct tell you exactly where 415MHz is as well as chose what gauges to use for each course. --Ashcroft tuning: designates a long period of silence in a classical music concert hall. --Ashcroft tuning (2): the attempt to tune your lute as if it were a 5-string banjo in order to be able to apply for an NEH grant. (generally followed by a sonic boom) --Tuned in fourths: when you only bother to tune every fourth string --Tuned in fifths: no one is lazy enough in the lute world to do it, but widely in use in the violin family of instruments If you don't get all the jokes above, you have not been playing the lute long enough... Alain
Re: really bad deals and reentrant tuning
--Tuned in fourths: when you only bother to tune every fourth string --Tuned in fifths: no one is lazy enough in the lute world to do it, but widely in use in the violin family of instruments Lutes are never tuned in seconds because it usually takes much longer than that. Sean
Re: really bad deals and reentrant tuning
Am Die, 2004-06-08 um 22.33 schrieb lutesmith: Lutes are never tuned in seconds because it usually takes much longer than that. Wrong! Ask Stefan how (if ever) I tune my 10-course. It's *very* fast (I told him I would have bought it tuned and it would stay in tune since then. All a matter of definition - if it sounds out of tune I'll say it's a certain comma meantone) Thomas -- Thomas Schall Niederhofheimer Weg 3 D-65843 Sulzbach 06196/74519 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.lautenist.de / www.tslaute.de/weiss --
Re: really bad deals and reentrant tuning
Alain Veylit wrote: Is a fifth really a unit of measure for whisky? And any other liquor, including wine. 750 ml is close enough to a fifth of a gallon not to worry about the difference. I don't get the Ashcroft jokes, BTW.
Re: really bad deals and reentrant tuning
Howard, all, Serious and sincere apologies for getting the giggles on that tuning thing and for all the bad jokes - The Ashcroft references come from a WEB page I read recently detailing some comments he made regarding Classical music in general and opera in particular: Ashcroft seems to consider that public subsidies for Classical music are wasted on a small clique of people who drive their Mercedes to the concert and therefore should not need to get any money from the government. Rather than reviving a heated political debate, I leave you with three links that you are free to follow or not, the first one against Ashcroft's cultural politics, the other two apparently in support of his views, although they read like an ultra-liberal caricature of a sane conservative agenda as I imagine that to be... http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/enemies.htm http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/ashpic1.html http://www.hscb.org/res-chats-ashcroft.htm Please someone tell me that this Homeland Security Cultural Bureau is indeed a joke perpetrated by ultra-liberals to caricature and defame our A.G.'s true and worthy goals - here is how they describe their role: What is the Homeland Security Cultural Bureau? You can find out more by visiting the About Us section. But in short, HSCB is protecting the interests of the country's national security by employing efforts to direct and guide the parameters of cultural production. Cultural production serving national security?? Shudder - I would rather trim the strings of my lute on the wrong side of the bridge than to become a guided parameter in that cultural war... Alain At 03:29 PM 6/8/04, Howard Posner wrote: Alain Veylit wrote: Is a fifth really a unit of measure for whisky? And any other liquor, including wine. 750 ml is close enough to a fifth of a gallon not to worry about the difference. I don't get the Ashcroft jokes, BTW.
Re: really bad deals and reentrant tuning
Alright, ooopsie, the Cultural bureau is a hoax... I had to go all the way to the Job opportunities page to figure it out for sure... Who knows: the beautiful song in the second link might be a fake too. Have the Sauceks taken over the whole WEB? Alain At 05:48 PM 6/8/04, Alain Veylit wrote: Howard, all, Serious and sincere apologies for getting the giggles on that tuning thing and for all the bad jokes - The Ashcroft references come from a WEB page I read recently detailing some comments he made regarding Classical music in general and opera in particular: Ashcroft seems to consider that public subsidies for Classical music are wasted on a small clique of people who drive their Mercedes to the concert and therefore should not need to get any money from the government. Rather than reviving a heated political debate, I leave you with three links that you are free to follow or not, the first one against Ashcroft's cultural politics, the other two apparently in support of his views, although they read like an ultra-liberal caricature of a sane conservative agenda as I imagine that to be... http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/enemies.htm http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/ashpic1.html http://www.hscb.org/res-chats-ashcroft.htm Please someone tell me that this Homeland Security Cultural Bureau is indeed a joke perpetrated by ultra-liberals to caricature and defame our A.G.'s true and worthy goals - here is how they describe their role: What is the Homeland Security Cultural Bureau? You can find out more by visiting the About Us section. But in short, HSCB is protecting the interests of the country's national security by employing efforts to direct and guide the parameters of cultural production. Cultural production serving national security?? Shudder - I would rather trim the strings of my lute on the wrong side of the bridge than to become a guided parameter in that cultural war... Alain At 03:29 PM 6/8/04, Howard Posner wrote: Alain Veylit wrote: Is a fifth really a unit of measure for whisky? And any other liquor, including wine. 750 ml is close enough to a fifth of a gallon not to worry about the difference. I don't get the Ashcroft jokes, BTW.
Re: really bad deals and reentrant tuning
it would make sense to me to assume that string manufacturing influenced how early instruments were tuned. flabby g's sounded better when they were tuned up an octave but too-taught e's probably didn't last the course (pun intended). it would also make sense to assume that if a combination of strings made a decent sound it would continue be used in remote parts of europe, on a variety of instruments where musical fashion and technical innovation (better string manufacturing, methods of play and tuning, notation, etc.) didn't have much impact, ie in remote, rural areas - long after it fell out of fashion in town. the music and instruments that were first introduced to south america and hawaii came from working people (sailors, farmers, etc.) not court musicians. these folk methods of tuning were probably considered hopelessly rustic and rude by trained musicians. if documentation doesn't exist to support the existence of reentrant tuning or alternative tunings in the renaissance and baroque periods, then how did what eventually became a ukulele get its reentrant tuning and how did the vihuela that eventually became a charango end up with that clanger of an octave 3rd? the reason i originally asked the question had more to do with sound than history. a ukulele just doesn't sound like early music to me - a medieval tune like caldy valdy on my charango sounds like something from the andes. i hope this doesn't get misconstrued as a bizarre sweeping statement - i'm just curious. - bill
Re: really bad deals and reentrant tuning
What is re-entrant tuning. In computer programming it is a form such that a subroutine can be used again and again during a system routine without distrurbing the basic program. I'll not get into the details, but it was a question when we used to program in machine language and real time. Best, Jon
