[LUTE] Re: Thibault MS
Dear Stewart, Hector, Dick, and Nancy, thank you very much for your kind replies. I had the transcriptions by Lewis Jones (1983) already, but now that I have also joined the LSA and received some past issues of the LSA Quarterly, I found much useful information about the basse danses in the articles by Dick Hoban (2011) and Crawford Young (2013). I am very glad that some dance music has been notated quite early while it still carried traces from the actual dance floor (before completely evolving into listening only tunes). This becomes very clear from Dick Hoban's article. For somebody like me who attempts to understand early dance both from the musical and the choreographical perspective, articles like these are very valuable. Thank you! Best wishes from a hot southern Sweden Josef -- Dick Hoban (2011): Masters of Polyphony: Secrets of the Bassadanza Tenor La Spagna. LSA Quarterly XLVI, No.4 pp.7-25. Crawford Young (2013): The King of Spain una bassadanza troppo forte. LSA Quarterly XLVIII, No.12, pp.40-61. 2014-07-18 3:03 GMT+02:00 Dick Hoban [1]rpho...@gmail.com: Josef In a recent issue of the LSA Quarterly, Volume XLVIII No.1 2, Spring and Summer 2013, you can find an interesting article by Crawford Young that examines the bassadanza in Pesaro Ms. and compares it with its concordant dance in the Thibault Ms. Facsimiles of the original tablature for both dances are included, as well as a chart showing the use of the La Spagna tenor in each dance. He concludes with a thoroughly enjoyable rendering of the Pesaro bassadanza in modern French tablature.This article is a follow on to his close examination of both of these early manuscript bassadanza settings as part of the information included in the publication of the entire facsimile of the Persaro manuscript, Fruhe Lautentablaturen im Faksimile published by Amadeus in 2003. Best, Dick On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 7:12 PM, Stewart McCoy [2]lu...@tiscali.co.uk wrote: Dear Josef, Just in case you were unaware, there are two articles on the Thibault manuscript by Lewis Jones in _The Lute_, 1982 (part 2) and 1983 (part 1). In the 1982 article he gives transcriptions of eight pieces from the manuscript, including the Calata on fol. 53r, but not the basse danses. Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: Josef Berger Sent: Friday, July 11, 2014 4:59 PM To: Hector Sequera ; [3]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Thibault MS A Hi Hector, A thank you for the information. I hope that you'll be able to publish A some of your research in scholarly journals, to make it more A internationally accessible. A I was mainly curious what you have written about the dances in the A Thibault MS, and if there are any new concordances than those mentioned A in Thibault 1958. A I have the article by G.Thibault (Un manuscrit italien pour luth des A premiAres annA(c)es du XVIe siAcle, pp. 43-76 in: J. Jaquot (ed.): Le A luth et sa musique, Paris 1958) which contains transcriptions of pavana A regia, saltarello, piva, pavana (fol.13r to 14r), a pavana (fol.25r) A and a mysterious calata (fol.53). But Thibault (1958) did not include A the basse danses of the manuscript (Basadanza, fol.15r and Spagna, A fol.19v), so I was as hoping to find those somewhere.I found Sarge A Gerbode's transcription of the Spagna in Thibault at A [1][4]http://gerbode.net/composers/Anon/VMD/pdf/Vmd27_spagna.pdf , but not A the Basadanza (which might be another version of the popular Spagna A theme?) A Best wishes A Josef Berger A 2014-07-11 16:11 GMT+02:00 Hector Sequera [2][5]hectorl...@mac.com: A A Dear Josef, A A My thesis is under contract by UMI so I cannot release it (you need A A to buy it via ProQuest in the USA). If you have any specific A A questions let me know. I am back at doing research on this topic and A A hope to publish something next year. A A All best wishes, A A Hector A A On 11 Jul 2014, at 14:57, Josef Berger [3][6]harpolek...@gmail.com A A wrote: A A A A Dear collective wisdom, A A A A does somebody of you have access to the thesis of Hector A A Sequera about A A A A the Thibault manuscript? Its PDF seems to be available only at A A the A A A A University of North Texas... A A A A [1][4][7]http://digital.library.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metadc4652/ A A A A HA(c)ctor J Sequera (2004): Selected Lute Music from Paris, A A RA(c)s. A A A A Vmd. Ms. 27 from the BibliothAque Nationale: Reconstruction, A A Edition, A A A A and Commentary. A A A A Best wishes from southern Sweden (which at this very moment A A feels A A A A rather than some part of Africa
[LUTE] Re: Thibault MS
Josef In a recent issue of the LSA Quarterly, Volume XLVIII No.1 2, Spring and Summer 2013, you can find an interesting article by Crawford Young that examines the bassadanza in Pesaro Ms. and compares it with its concordant dance in the Thibault Ms. Facsimiles of the original tablature for both dances are included, as well as a chart showing the use of the La Spagna tenor in each dance. He concludes with a thoroughly enjoyable rendering of the Pesaro bassadanza in modern French tablature.This article is a follow on to his close examination of both of these early manuscript bassadanza settings as part of the information included in the publication of the entire facsimile of the Persaro manuscript, Fruhe Lautentablaturen im Faksimile published by Amadeus in 2003. Best, Dick On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 7:12 PM, Stewart McCoy [1]lu...@tiscali.co.uk wrote: Dear Josef, Just in case you were unaware, there are two articles on the Thibault manuscript by Lewis Jones in _The Lute_, 1982 (part 2) and 1983 (part 1). In the 1982 article he gives transcriptions of eight pieces from the manuscript, including the Calata on fol. 53r, but not the basse danses. Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: Josef Berger Sent: Friday, July 11, 2014 4:59 PM To: Hector Sequera ; [2]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Thibault MS A Hi Hector, A thank you for the information. I hope that you'll be able to publish A some of your research in scholarly journals, to make it more A internationally accessible. A I was mainly curious what you have written about the dances in the A Thibault MS, and if there are any new concordances than those mentioned A in Thibault 1958. A I have the article by G.Thibault (Un manuscrit italien pour luth des A premiAres annA(c)es du XVIe siAcle, pp. 43-76 in: J. Jaquot (ed.): Le A luth et sa musique, Paris 1958) which contains transcriptions of pavana A regia, saltarello, piva, pavana (fol.13r to 14r), a pavana (fol.25r) A and a mysterious calata (fol.53). But Thibault (1958) did not include A the basse danses of the manuscript (Basadanza, fol.15r and Spagna, A fol.19v), so I was as hoping to find those somewhere.I found Sarge A Gerbode's transcription of the Spagna in Thibault at A [1][3]http://gerbode.net/composers/Anon/VMD/pdf/Vmd27_spagna.pdf , but not A the Basadanza (which might be another version of the popular Spagna A theme?) A Best wishes A Josef Berger A 2014-07-11 16:11 GMT+02:00 Hector Sequera [2][4]hectorl...@mac.com: A A Dear Josef, A A My thesis is under contract by UMI so I cannot release it (you need A A to buy it via ProQuest in the USA). If you have any specific A A questions let me know. I am back at doing research on this topic and A A hope to publish something next year. A A All best wishes, A A Hector A A On 11 Jul 2014, at 14:57, Josef Berger [3][5]harpolek...@gmail.com A A wrote: A A A A Dear collective wisdom, A A A A does somebody of you have access to the thesis of Hector A A Sequera about A A A A the Thibault manuscript? Its PDF seems to be available only at A A the A A A A University of North Texas... A A A A [1][4][6]http://digital.library.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metadc4652/ A A A A HA(c)ctor J Sequera (2004): Selected Lute Music from Paris, A A RA(c)s. A A A A Vmd. Ms. 27 from the BibliothAque Nationale: Reconstruction, A A Edition, A A A A and Commentary. A A A A Best wishes from southern Sweden (which at this very moment A A feels A A A A rather than some part of Africa) A A A A Josef Berger A A A A A A -- A A A A References A A A A A A 1. [5][7]http://digital.library.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metadc4652/ A A A A A A To get on or off this list see list information at A A [6][8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html A -- References A 1. [9]http://gerbode.net/composers/Anon/VMD/pdf/Vmd27_spagna.pdf A 2. mailto:[10]hectorl...@mac.com A 3. mailto:[11]harpolek...@gmail.com A 4. [12]http://digital.library.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metadc4652/ A 5. [13]http://digital.library.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metadc4652/ A 6. [14]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:lu...@tiscali.co.uk 2. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. http://gerbode.net/composers/Anon/VMD/pdf/Vmd27_spagna.pdf 4. mailto:hectorl...@mac.com 5. mailto:harpolek...@gmail.com 6. http
[LUTE] Re: Thibault MS
If any of you folks out there are not LSA members and would like copy email me back with a street address and I will send you a copy. Nancy Josef In a recent issue of the LSA Quarterly, Volume XLVIII No.1 2, Spring and Summer 2013, you can find an interesting article by Crawford Young that examines the bassadanza in Pesaro Ms. and compares it with its concordant dance in the Thibault Ms. Facsimiles of the original tablature for both dances are included, as well as a chart showing the use of the La Spagna tenor in each dance. He concludes with a thoroughly enjoyable rendering of the Pesaro bassadanza in modern French tablature.This article is a follow on to his close examination of both of these early manuscript bassadanza settings as part of the information included in the publication of the entire facsimile of the Persaro manuscript, Fruhe Lautentablaturen im Faksimile published by Amadeus in 2003. Best, Dick On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 7:12 PM, Stewart McCoy [1]lu...@tiscali.co.uk wrote: Dear Josef, Just in case you were unaware, there are two articles on the Thibault manuscript by Lewis Jones in _The Lute_, 1982 (part 2) and 1983 (part 1). In the 1982 article he gives transcriptions of eight pieces from the manuscript, including the Calata on fol. 53r, but not the basse danses. Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: Josef Berger Sent: Friday, July 11, 2014 4:59 PM To: Hector Sequera ; [2]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Thibault MS A Hi Hector, A thank you for the information. I hope that you'll be able to publish A some of your research in scholarly journals, to make it more A internationally accessible. A I was mainly curious what you have written about the dances in the A Thibault MS, and if there are any new concordances than those mentioned A in Thibault 1958. A I have the article by G.Thibault (Un manuscrit italien pour luth des A premiAres annA(c)es du XVIe siAcle, pp. 43-76 in: J. Jaquot (ed.): Le A luth et sa musique, Paris 1958) which contains transcriptions of pavana A regia, saltarello, piva, pavana (fol.13r to 14r), a pavana (fol.25r) A and a mysterious calata (fol.53). But Thibault (1958) did not include A the basse danses of the manuscript (Basadanza, fol.15r and Spagna, A fol.19v), so I was as hoping to find those somewhere.I found Sarge A Gerbode's transcription of the Spagna in Thibault at A [1][3]http://gerbode.net/composers/Anon/VMD/pdf/Vmd27_spagna.pdf , but not A the Basadanza (which might be another version of the popular Spagna A theme?) A Best wishes A Josef Berger A 2014-07-11 16:11 GMT+02:00 Hector Sequera [2][4]hectorl...@mac.com: A A Dear Josef, A A My thesis is under contract by UMI so I cannot release it (you need A A to buy it via ProQuest in the USA). If you have any specific A A questions let me know. I am back at doing research on this topic and A A hope to publish something next year. A A All best wishes, A A Hector A A On 11 Jul 2014, at 14:57, Josef Berger [3][5]harpolek...@gmail.com A A wrote: A A A A Dear collective wisdom, A A A A does somebody of you have access to the thesis of Hector A A Sequera about A A A A the Thibault manuscript? Its PDF seems to be available only at A A the A A A A University of North Texas... A A A A [1][4][6]http://digital.library.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metadc4652/ A A A A HA(c)ctor J Sequera (2004): Selected Lute Music from Paris, A A RA(c)s. A A A A Vmd. Ms. 27 from the BibliothAque Nationale: Reconstruction, A A Edition, A A A A and Commentary. A A A A Best wishes from southern Sweden (which at this very moment A A feels A A A A rather than some part of Africa) A A A A Josef Berger A A A A A A -- A A A A References A A A A A A 1. [5][7]http://digital.library.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metadc4652/ A A A A A A To get on or off this list see list information at A A [6][8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html A -- References A 1. [9]http://gerbode.net/composers/Anon/VMD/pdf/Vmd27_spagna.pdf A 2. mailto:[10]hectorl...@mac.com A 3. mailto:[11]harpolek...@gmail.com A 4. [12]http://digital.library.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metadc4652/ A 5. [13]http://digital.library.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metadc4652/ A 6. [14]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin
[LUTE] Re: Thibault MS
Hi Hector, thank you for the information. I hope that you'll be able to publish some of your research in scholarly journals, to make it more internationally accessible. I was mainly curious what you have written about the dances in the Thibault MS, and if there are any new concordances than those mentioned in Thibault 1958. I have the article by G.Thibault (Un manuscrit italien pour luth des premiAres annA(c)es du XVIe siAcle, pp. 43-76 in: J. Jaquot (ed.): Le luth et sa musique, Paris 1958) which contains transcriptions of pavana regia, saltarello, piva, pavana (fol.13r to 14r), a pavana (fol.25r) and a mysterious calata (fol.53). But Thibault (1958) did not include the basse danses of the manuscript (Basadanza, fol.15r and Spagna, fol.19v), so I was as hoping to find those somewhere.I found Sarge Gerbode's transcription of the Spagna in Thibault at [1]http://gerbode.net/composers/Anon/VMD/pdf/Vmd27_spagna.pdf , but not the Basadanza (which might be another version of the popular Spagna theme?) Best wishes Josef Berger 2014-07-11 16:11 GMT+02:00 Hector Sequera [2]hectorl...@mac.com: Dear Josef, My thesis is under contract by UMI so I cannot release it (you need to buy it via ProQuest in the USA). If you have any specific questions let me know. I am back at doing research on this topic and hope to publish something next year. All best wishes, Hector On 11 Jul 2014, at 14:57, Josef Berger [3]harpolek...@gmail.com wrote: A Dear collective wisdom, A does somebody of you have access to the thesis of Hector Sequera about A the Thibault manuscript? Its PDF seems to be available only at the A University of North Texas... A [1][4]http://digital.library.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metadc4652/ A HA(c)ctor J Sequera (2004): Selected Lute Music from Paris, RA(c)s. A Vmd. Ms. 27 from the BibliothAque Nationale: Reconstruction, Edition, A and Commentary. A Best wishes from southern Sweden (which at this very moment feels A rather than some part of Africa) A Josef Berger A -- References A 1. [5]http://digital.library.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metadc4652/ To get on or off this list see list information at [6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://gerbode.net/composers/Anon/VMD/pdf/Vmd27_spagna.pdf 2. mailto:hectorl...@mac.com 3. mailto:harpolek...@gmail.com 4. http://digital.library.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metadc4652/ 5. http://digital.library.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metadc4652/ 6. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Thibault MS
You can order it at https://order.proquest.com/OA_HTML/pqdtibeCCtpItmDspRte.jsp?item=1424456sit ex=10020:22372:UStrack=DxWebdlnow=1rpath=http%3A%2F%2Fdissexpress.umi.com %2Fdxweb%2Fresults.html%3FQryTxt%3D%26By%3DHECTOR%2BSEQUERA%26Title%3D%26pub num%3D For $38 and get it immediately. It is a PDF. Regards David -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Josef Berger Sent: Friday, July 11, 2014 6:58 AM To: [LUTE] Subject: [LUTE] Thibault MS Dear collective wisdom, does somebody of you have access to the thesis of Hector Sequera about the Thibault manuscript? Its PDF seems to be available only at the University of North Texas... [1]http://digital.library.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metadc4652/ HA(c)ctor J Sequera (2004): Selected Lute Music from Paris, RA(c)s. Vmd. Ms. 27 from the BibliothAque Nationale: Reconstruction, Edition, and Commentary. Best wishes from southern Sweden (which at this very moment feels rather than some part of Africa) Josef Berger -- References 1. http://digital.library.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metadc4652/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: Thibault MS
Hector Sequera at the University of North Texas is writing his thesis on this MS and working on transcriptions and concordances. See links below for my own transcription of one of the pieces - (All mistakes mine, where was I roaming...) http://cbsr26.ucr.edu/wlkfiles/Publications/Vmd27/PavanaRegia.mid http://cbsr26.ucr.edu/wlkfiles/Publications/Vmd27/PavanaRegia_fr.pdf http://cbsr26.ucr.edu/wlkfiles/Publications/Vmd27/PavanaRegia_it.pdf Alain At 11:30 AM 7/19/04, Denys Stephens wrote: Dear Tadeusz, I don't know of any transcriptions from the Pesaro ms that are downloadable from the net. There is a complete modern edition of the manuscript edited by Vladimir Ivanoff (Edition der Handschrift Pesaro, Biblioteca Oliveriana, Ms. 1144, Munchner Editionen zur Musikgeschichte 7, Tutzing, 1988). There are a few pieces from the Thibault Ms at Wayne's site at: http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/tab-serv/tab-serv.cgi?Vmd27 and there are further pieces plus an excellent article on the manuscript by Lewis Jones in the Lute Society's The Lute 1982 volume XXII part 2. Several people have expressed an intention to produce a complete edition of the manuscript but none, to my knowledge, has yet done so. Both the Pesaro and Thibault manuscripts present difficulties in interpretation, the latter being almost completely without rhythm signs and bar lines, so transcribing the pieces involves a lot more work than is usual with later sources. There is an excellent facsimile of the manuscript by Minkoff, but as far as I am aware, it's out of print. Quite a number of pieces in the manuscript may have originally been composed for plectrum playing, which makes it particularly interesting as it seems to belong to a time when plectrum and fingerstyle playing were both in use. Best wishes, Denys - Original Message - From: Tadeusz Czechak [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 6:30 PM Subject: pesaro etc Hello all Anyone knows if it's possible to find somewhere in the web pieces from = Pesaro and Thibaut mss ? I already got a supplement to Lute News , but = still looking for more greetings -Tadeusz Czechak --
Re: Thibault MS
Dear Alain, Many thanks for that information - Its good to know that someone is working on that manuscript. I hope his work gets published! Thanks too for the link to your setting of the Pavana Regia - with pieces from this Ms it's always useful to compare notes between different realisations. An interesting example of that is Wayne's reading of the other Pavana which has several rhythmic differences to Chris Wilson's recorded version (as a duet on Early Venetian Lute Music - Naxos). Both, of course, are entirely valid readings of the original tablature. Best wishes, Denys - Original Message - From: Alain Veylit [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Denys Stephens [EMAIL PROTECTED]; lute net [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 8:52 PM Subject: Re: Thibault MS Hector Sequera at the University of North Texas is writing his thesis on this MS and working on transcriptions and concordances. See links below for my own transcription of one of the pieces - (All mistakes mine, where was I roaming...) http://cbsr26.ucr.edu/wlkfiles/Publications/Vmd27/PavanaRegia.mid http://cbsr26.ucr.edu/wlkfiles/Publications/Vmd27/PavanaRegia_fr.pdf http://cbsr26.ucr.edu/wlkfiles/Publications/Vmd27/PavanaRegia_it.pdf Alain At 11:30 AM 7/19/04, Denys Stephens wrote: Dear Tadeusz, I don't know of any transcriptions from the Pesaro ms that are downloadable from the net. There is a complete modern edition of the manuscript edited by Vladimir Ivanoff (Edition der Handschrift Pesaro, Biblioteca Oliveriana, Ms. 1144, Munchner Editionen zur Musikgeschichte 7, Tutzing, 1988). There are a few pieces from the Thibault Ms at Wayne's site at: http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/tab-serv/tab-serv.cgi?Vmd27 and there are further pieces plus an excellent article on the manuscript by Lewis Jones in the Lute Society's The Lute 1982 volume XXII part 2. Several people have expressed an intention to produce a complete edition of the manuscript but none, to my knowledge, has yet done so. Both the Pesaro and Thibault manuscripts present difficulties in interpretation, the latter being almost completely without rhythm signs and bar lines, so transcribing the pieces involves a lot more work than is usual with later sources. There is an excellent facsimile of the manuscript by Minkoff, but as far as I am aware, it's out of print. Quite a number of pieces in the manuscript may have originally been composed for plectrum playing, which makes it particularly interesting as it seems to belong to a time when plectrum and fingerstyle playing were both in use. Best wishes, Denys - Original Message - From: Tadeusz Czechak [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 6:30 PM Subject: pesaro etc Hello all Anyone knows if it's possible to find somewhere in the web pieces from = Pesaro and Thibaut mss ? I already got a supplement to Lute News , but = still looking for more greetings -Tadeusz Czechak --
