Re: Lyx at Linuxfest Northwest 2013

[Liviu Andronic]

Hello,


On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 7:13 AM, Jayneil Dalal jayneil.da...@gmail.com wrote:
 http://linuxfestnorthwest.org/content/crash-course-lyx-gui-based-
 alternative-latex

When introducing LyX to people I myself prefer launching a full-blown
your first document in LyX session, based on LyX_Essentials.pdf (
https://sites.google.com/site/tsewiki/resources/latex ). So I just
start showing off how easy it is to create a good looking document in
LyX, and at the same time explain the differences between LyX and MS
Word. This is more useful for a workshop than a presentation, but
gives the audience a very clear idea of it actually is.


 I have also started a project on sourceforge called Lyx Live DVD:

 https://sourceforge.net/projects/lyxlivedvd/

 It is basically Ubuntu 12.04.2 LTS with Lyx, texlive-full package pre-
 installed and configured. So, you can have Lyx wherever you go.

This is a very good initiative. I remember once having big issues
finding a LiveCD with LyX. Several points:
- Wouldn't it be better to use a versioning scheme in the name of the
file ? lyx-12.04.2.iso or similar would be more useful.
- Is the LiveCD using the PPA (
https://launchpad.net/~lyx-devel/+archive/release )? Could it be
configured to use that?
- And could/should the LiveCD also come pre-configured for the daily
PPA ( https://launchpad.net/~lyx-devel/+archive/daily )?

Regards,
Liviu

the dreaded docx export - WAS: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Rainer M Krug]

stefano franchi stefano.fran...@gmail.com writes:

 On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 1:44 PM, Les Denham lden...@hal-pc.org wrote:

 On Sun, 9 Jun 2013 10:32:20 -0500
 stefano franchi stefano.fran...@gmail.com wrote:

  I'm willing to bet you won't find such an example. The reason is
  simple: more or less by definition a best-seller is book produced by
  a major commercial publishing house supported by a consistent
  marketing effort, heavily edited by a professional editor and laid
  out by a (team of ) typesetters according to a carefully designed
  house-specific graphic design project.

 While that is the traditional definition of a best seller, it is
 becoming less and less relevant.


 You may be right. As I said, I'm a pessimist. Yet, I've still to meet the
 production editor of a major publishing house who would accept a manuscript
 in LyX or Latex formats. Whereas I've met editors willing to accept a
 *paper* manuscript and have it retyped in Word.


 I use LyX rather than Word (or its clones) because it allows me to
 produce a presentable document in about half the time it takes with
 Word. This is emphatically the case if it is a document requiring a
 detailed table of contents, an index, or a bibliography, or if it
 contains figures, cross-references or footnotes.


 I guess that's the very reason why we all use LyX. I certainly wouldn't be
 as productive in Word. But those of us working in the Humanities (at least
 some Humanities) then have to budget some time to convert the output to
 Word. Nothing else is accepted. I tend to think best-sellers authors'
 position is closer to us than to a physicist's, a mathematician's or a
 logician's. That's why a minimal and yet reliable LyX-to-Doc converter---a
 topic we've repeatedly discussed on the list---would make such a difference
 to the non-technical user, IMHO.


This developed into a very interesting and I guess useful discussion -
thanks.
And, as you said, it brings back the question of export to docx.

I think I mentioned it already, but I made quite good experiences with
using pandoc[1]:

,
| #
| # FORMATS SECTION ##
| #
| \format msdocx docx Microsoft docx  
/usr/share/playonlinux/playonlinux --run \Microsoft Word 2010\ 
/usr/share/playonlinux/playonlinux --run \Microsoft Word 2010\ 
document,menu=export
| #
| # CONVERTERS SECTION ##
| #
| \converter xhtml msdocx pandoc -o $$o $$i 
`

it is most definitely not perfect, but for reltively simple documents,
it works nicely. I used it to convert a handbook with pictures and
references, but I don't think footnotes, for my co-authors to review and
for sending to layouting.

There are definitely aspects which would need improvement here, but this
was the beast way I could find. 

To improve the export, one could go two ways: improve an existing tool
(e.g. pandoc) to be used as the universal converter, to possibly even
include .lyx as an input format, to produce satisfying non-tex and
non-(x)html outputs, or to write an own tool. 

The question is, how interested people are and how one could get this
(internal ox external to LyX) converter.

I would guess, as not much has materialized after the previous
discussions, that the problem is, that the ones interested in this
feature, do have no time or not enough expertise (myself) to do it. So
how could one still make any progress in this feature? 

I like the idea from Steve, as seeing LyX as a frontend for different
backends for export, where the LaTeX backend is the authoritative one.

And in my personal opinion, it would be a very useful to investigate
pandoc further, as it already has a variety of output formats.
,
| - HTML formats :: XHTML, HTML5, and HTML slide shows using Slidy, Slideous, 
S5, or DZSlides.
| - Word processor formats :: Microsoft Word docx, OpenOffice/LibreOffice ODT, 
OpenDocument XML
| - Ebooks :: EPUB version 2 or 3, FictionBook2
| - Documentation formats :: DocBook, GNU TexInfo, Groff man pages
| - TeX formats :: LaTeX, ConTeXt, LaTeX Beamer slides
| - PDF :: via LaTeX
| - Lightweight markup formats :: Markdown, reStructuredText, AsciiDoc, 
MediaWiki markup, Emacs Org-Mode, Textile
`

These are just ideas from my side, but to try to incorporate pandoc
into LyX in the same way as LaTeX is Incorporated, would make LyX even
more powerful then it is already now.

Cheers,

Rainer



 Cheers,

 S.



Footnotes: 
[1]  http://johnmacfarlane.net/pandoc/

-- 
Rainer M. Krug

email: RMKrugatgmaildotcom


pgpphOicpRgMH.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: Lyx2doc: was Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Richard Heck]

On 06/10/2013 06:05 PM, Steve Litt wrote:

These days, it could be used as a front end to anything with the proper
styles defined, and the proper converter. So the same LyX file could be
used to output LaTeX, MSWord doc, XHTML, HTML, simple HTML, or who
knows what else.

To more easily accommodate this, it seems to me like layout files
should be split into an input side and an output side, with the output
side capable of multiple output formats. So the input side might look
something like this:

CharStyle MyEmph
Font
Shape Italic
EndFont

if outputtype == latex
outputName  latexlayout.layout/myemphL
outputType  Command
elsif outputtype == simplehtml
outputName  simphtmllayout.layout/myemphH
outputType  InlineTag
else outputtype == msword
outputName  winwordlayout.layout/myemphW
outputType  CharacterStyle
End

Environments would be similar.

Ideally it would be designed so that it doesn't syntax check inside the
output type's it's not. That way you can develop one output type at a
time without getting errors from the ones you haven't developed yet.


This can already be done, more or less. That is, I can't imagine 
anything you'd want to do, as far as XHTML export goes, that isn't 
provided for in the layout files.


Indeed, I am sufficiently confident about this that I'd be surprised if 
it were not possible to build the sort of simple HTML export you want 
simply by writing a new layout file.


Richard



It seems to me that something like this would be a logical way of
turning LyX into a universal front end while changing very little of
LyX's core code.

I'm not a good enough programmer to do this in C++, so feel free to view
this suggestion with some healthy skepticism.

Thanks,

SteveT

Steve Litt*  http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Troubleshooting Training  *  Human Performance

Re: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Dr Eberhard Lisse]

Steve,

of course he's right, but then he can google what DILLIGAF stands
for :-)-O

I run a Obstetrician and Gynaecologist's practice for all documents,
letters, reports, some recreated forms, prescriptions, presentations
(beamer and recently discovered beamerposter), statistics (SWEAVE)
and typed my wife's thesis using LyX and BibDesk.

I like NeoOffice (OO on Mac), but only so that I can export to LaTeX
and from there to LyX.

However, I find it as difficult as you to convince people that they
should make it easy on themselves and produce quality output with
minimal effort :-)-O. They are just too lazy...

el


on 2013-06-09 15:36 Steve Litt said the following:
[...]
 ===
 As for Lyx, you need to know that, with very few exceptions —
 none of which immediately come to mind — open source programs
 have great appeal for people who want to tinker with computers but
 almost none for those who actually want to do something.  Such
 apps tend to have butt ugly interfaces and stupid names like Lyx
 and Snort and Gimp and Phlegm.  Last I saw, Lyx wasn't even
 WYSIWYG, for crying out loud.  Forewarned is forewarned.  Or
 something like that.
 ===
[...]

beamer documentation

[Csikos Bela]

Hello:

Where could I find beamer documentation on how to customize or adjust a 
template according to my liking (in the document's preamble)? The user guide is 
quite long still superficial regarding this. For example I would like to change 
the sizes and positioning of the headline and footline, changing the navigation 
icons, etc.

Thanks,

bcsikos

Re: Lyx2doc: was Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[stefano franchi]

On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 9:32 AM, Richard Heck rgh...@lyx.org wrote:

 On 06/10/2013 06:05 PM, Steve Litt wrote:

 This can already be done, more or less. That is, I can't imagine anything
 you'd want to do, as far as XHTML export goes, that isn't provided for in
 the layout files.

 Indeed, I am sufficiently confident about this that I'd be surprised if it
 were not possible to build the sort of simple HTML export you want simply
 by writing a new layout file



Richard,

I just spent the last hour converting a short (2800 words)  lyx/pdf file
into Word. Could you tell me where I should look to fix the problems I
detail below?

Setup: Lyx + memoir + biblatex = Biber. Usually typeset to pdf with
lualatex. . File contained two images (in floats, reduced from the
originals by latex) Archlinux box with TL2012

I tried the elyxer routes (both regular and html(word)) and they failed
with too many errors to report here. I then exported to xhtml, imported
into abiword and exported to doc format. Opened it it libreoffice for final
cleanup.

Here are the problems I found. My guess is that part of these are LyX/XHMTL
issues and part are due to AbiWord.

1. Bibliography did not come over and was just ignored. I had to copy and
paste from the pdf output. Biblatex issue?

2. Footnote text came over but not as a footnote. It was just pasted in the
correct location but as a regular text.

3. Latex special character issues: em-dash as triple hyphen came over as
a triple hyphen and not as an em-dash. tilde as non-breaking space (I
routinely use that in references) came over as tilde.

4. Images were pasted more or less where the floats were inserted, at full
original size.

5. Captions followed the images as regular text.

6. Formatting of the paragraph environment was lost (I guess it's too
deeply nested to have a corresponding h level?)

Are these issues that a proper layout file would sort out?


Cheers,

Stefano

-- 
__
Stefano Franchi
Associate Research Professor
Department of Hispanic StudiesPh:   +1 (979) 845-2125
Texas AM University  Fax:  +1 (979) 845-6421
College Station, Texas, USA

stef...@tamu.edu
http://stefano.cleinias.org

Re: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Wolfgang Keller]

 But I can tell you this guy is going to come back and say he's a great
 and mighty best selling author, ask how many books have I sold. While
 books provide a part of my income, I have no best sellers, either now
 or in the past.
 
 So, when he comes back and asks that, it would be *wonderful* to give
 the writer's list one or more best seller books (I think something
 with an Amazon rank of less than 5000 would do it), to refute his
 statement, by counterexample.

First, LyX is just a GUI, a sort-of-IDE for LaTeX, even though it uses
its own file format. And you would never make a distinction between the
various LaTeX IDEs or editors or front-ends or...

Next, LaTeX (and consequently, any of the various front-ends for it) is
*the* publishing tool within the scientific world. Obviously, no one
would write pulp fiction or non-fiction bestseller books with it,
since those authors aren't scientists.

And concerning .doc as a content exchange format; During my last 25
years of experience with writing documents I have *never*, repeat
*never* seen anyone re-use from a .doc document any content beyond bare
naked unformatted raw text. Even if it was for re-use *within* MS Word.

Paste as unformatted text is the only possibility of content re-use
that the spaghetti-format of Word effectively allows. No matter what
effort you deploy in preparing templates with styles and whatnot - it
won't work, ever.

Sincerely,

Wolfgang

Re: Simple HTML converter/export

[Bob Alvarez]

On 6/10/13 2:23 PM, Richard Heck wrote:

On 06/09/2013 05:22 PM, Bob Alvarez wrote:
  
Let me state my interest in this topic to see if it overlaps with

yours. I agree that HTML exporters like Alex Fernandez' eLyXer do a
great job of producing web pages that look like pdf documents. What I
would want is to be able to add some capabilities to the HTML that
would not be possible in a static format like pdf. But at the same
time, I want to use Lyx's capabilities for formatting the document and
math typesetting.

As an example, I use Lyx to create web pages with a lot of math. Like
most math, it is structured with general statements like theorems with
proofs. Many times, the proof gets in the way of the narrative
although it is important for it to be there if the reader wants to see
it. I saw a website where they added a + sign gadget that if you click
it once displays the proof and then clicking it again hides it.

This is relatively easy to do using the javascript openClose function
http://javascriptsource.com/miscellaneous/collapsible-text.html



The from LyX's own XHTML exporter is substantially customizable through
layout files. I'd be surprised if this sort of thing could be not be
done fairly simply. At worst, you'd have to define some new sort of
inset in which you could wrap whatever you wanted to be opened and closed.

Richard



Could you provide some more details on how I can go about doing this?

I read Ch. 4 of the Additional and Ch. 5 of the Customization but I 
am a beginner at this. Is there a sample XHTML layout file that I can 
modify? For example, one that inserts javascript?


Any help appreciated.

Bob

Re: Lyx2doc: was Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Steve Litt]

On Tue, 11 Jun 2013 10:32:12 -0400
Richard Heck rgh...@lyx.org wrote:

 On 06/10/2013 06:05 PM, Steve Litt wrote:
  These days, it could be used as a front end to anything with the
  proper styles defined, and the proper converter. So the same LyX
  file could be used to output LaTeX, MSWord doc, XHTML, HTML, simple
  HTML, or who knows what else.
 
  To more easily accommodate this, it seems to me like layout files
  should be split into an input side and an output side, with the
  output side capable of multiple output formats. So the input side
  might look something like this:
 
  CharStyle MyEmph
  Font
  Shape Italic
  EndFont
 
  if outputtype == latex
  outputName  latexlayout.layout/myemphL
  outputType  Command
  elsif outputtype == simplehtml
  outputName  simphtmllayout.layout/myemphH
  outputType  InlineTag
  else outputtype == msword
  outputName  winwordlayout.layout/myemphW
  outputType  CharacterStyle
  End
 
  Environments would be similar.
 
  Ideally it would be designed so that it doesn't syntax check inside
  the output type's it's not. That way you can develop one output
  type at a time without getting errors from the ones you haven't
  developed yet.
 
 This can already be done, more or less. That is, I can't imagine 
 anything you'd want to do, as far as XHTML export goes, that isn't 
 provided for in the layout files.
 
 Indeed, I am sufficiently confident about this that I'd be surprised
 if it were not possible to build the sort of simple HTML export you
 want simply by writing a new layout file.

Thanks Richard,

When I tried to do this with my layout file, it failed miserably. Try
as I might, I couldn't get Standard to map to p, nor could I get
Section to map to h1, etc.

SteveT

Steve Litt*  http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Troubleshooting Training  *  Human Performance

Re: Simple HTML converter/export

[Richard Heck]

On 06/11/2013 01:42 PM, Bob Alvarez wrote:

On 6/10/13 2:23 PM, Richard Heck wrote:

On 06/09/2013 05:22 PM, Bob Alvarez wrote:

  Let me state my interest in this topic to see if it overlaps with
yours. I agree that HTML exporters like Alex Fernandez' eLyXer do a
great job of producing web pages that look like pdf documents. What I
would want is to be able to add some capabilities to the HTML that
would not be possible in a static format like pdf. But at the same
time, I want to use Lyx's capabilities for formatting the document and
math typesetting.

As an example, I use Lyx to create web pages with a lot of math. Like
most math, it is structured with general statements like theorems with
proofs. Many times, the proof gets in the way of the narrative
although it is important for it to be there if the reader wants to see
it. I saw a website where they added a + sign gadget that if you click
it once displays the proof and then clicking it again hides it.

This is relatively easy to do using the javascript openClose function
http://javascriptsource.com/miscellaneous/collapsible-text.html



The from LyX's own XHTML exporter is substantially customizable through
layout files. I'd be surprised if this sort of thing could be not be
done fairly simply. At worst, you'd have to define some new sort of
inset in which you could wrap whatever you wanted to be opened and 
closed.


Richard



Could you provide some more details on how I can go about doing this?

I read Ch. 4 of the Additional and Ch. 5 of the Customization but 
I am a beginner at this. Is there a sample XHTML layout file that I 
can modify? For example, one that inserts javascript?


What sort of thing would you like to be able to do? That would give me a 
better sense of how to answer. But for some ideas, look perhaps at how 
footnotes are formatted in the file stdinsets.inc.


The ordinary article.layout file contains lots of HTML-specific 
material. So you could also start by looking at it. My sense was that 
what Steve wants is a kind of stripped-down layout, that is closely 
targeted to making simple HTML pages. So, in that case, you might have 
much simpler stuff than in the complex layouts we have.


Richard

Re: Lyx2doc: was Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Richard Heck]

On 06/11/2013 01:18 PM, stefano franchi wrote:



Here are the problems I found. My guess is that part of these are 
LyX/XHMTL issues and part are due to AbiWord.


1. Bibliography did not come over and was just ignored. I had to copy 
and paste from the pdf output. Biblatex issue?


Probably. If there's no BibTeX inset, then the bibliography will not be 
produced, and I guess you don't have that for BibLaTeX, except maybe in 
a note. So this is really an effect of the fact that we have no formal 
support for BibLaTeX.


2. Footnote text came over but not as a footnote. It was just pasted 
in the correct location but as a regular text.


Footnotes are just exported as div's, with class=footnote, so AbiWord 
or whatever will not recognize it as a footnote. There's not really any 
HTML equivalent of a footnote, so I'm not sure there is much to be done 
here.


3. Latex special character issues: em-dash as triple hyphen came 
over as a triple hyphen and not as an em-dash. tilde as non-breaking 
space (I routinely use that in references) came over as tilde.


The em-dash SHOULD be exported as such. There's code in 
Paragraph::simpleLyXHTMLOnePar() that is supposed to handle this. It 
works for me in a simple test document.


The tilde is a different story. Can you file a bug about that? We do 
some LaTeX -- HTML conversion here, handling things like \u, so I just 
need to add handling of ~.


4. Images were pasted more or less where the floats were inserted, at 
full original size.


Another bug. I suppose we should scale them somehow? Please post a bug 
about this, too.


There's not really anything to do other than put the images where they 
are inserted. HTML has no concept of a page, so the placement options 
make no sense.



5. Captions followed the images as regular text.


Similar to the footnote problem, I think. Probably we should switch to 
using the new figure tag and the associated figcaption tag. Can you 
also file a bug about that?


6. Formatting of the paragraph environment was lost (I guess it's 
too deeply nested to have a corresponding h level?)


I forgot to include a tag for those. I've just fixed that for the next 
release. See

http://git.lyx.org/?p=lyx.git;a=commit;h=c6a08bc4421c960dc8148a95eb68ba90c2f95ff5
for the commit.

Sorry to ask for so much bug-filing. With 2.1 on the horizon, I can't do 
very much right now, as Vincent has trunk pretty locked.


Richard

Re: Lyx2doc: was Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Richard Heck]

On 06/11/2013 02:03 PM, Steve Litt wrote:

On Tue, 11 Jun 2013 10:32:12 -0400
Richard Heck rgh...@lyx.org wrote:


On 06/10/2013 06:05 PM, Steve Litt wrote:

These days, it could be used as a front end to anything with the
proper styles defined, and the proper converter. So the same LyX
file could be used to output LaTeX, MSWord doc, XHTML, HTML, simple
HTML, or who knows what else.

To more easily accommodate this, it seems to me like layout files
should be split into an input side and an output side, with the
output side capable of multiple output formats. So the input side
might look something like this:

CharStyle MyEmph
Font
Shape Italic
EndFont

if outputtype == latex
 outputName latexlayout.layout/myemphL
 outputType Command
elsif outputtype == simplehtml
 outputName simphtmllayout.layout/myemphH
 outputType InlineTag
else outputtype == msword
 outputName winwordlayout.layout/myemphW
 outputType CharacterStyle
End

Environments would be similar.

Ideally it would be designed so that it doesn't syntax check inside
the output type's it's not. That way you can develop one output
type at a time without getting errors from the ones you haven't
developed yet.

This can already be done, more or less. That is, I can't imagine
anything you'd want to do, as far as XHTML export goes, that isn't
provided for in the layout files.

Indeed, I am sufficiently confident about this that I'd be surprised
if it were not possible to build the sort of simple HTML export you
want simply by writing a new layout file.

Thanks Richard,

When I tried to do this with my layout file, it failed miserably. Try
as I might, I couldn't get Standard to map to p, nor could I get
Section to map to h1, etc.


If you want to send me your layout file, I will get it working.

Richard

Re: the dreaded docx export - WAS: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Ray Rashif]

On 11 June 2013 14:15, Rainer M Krug rai...@krugs.de wrote:

 These are just ideas from my side, but to try to incorporate pandoc
 into LyX in the same way as LaTeX is Incorporated, would make LyX even
 more powerful then it is already now.


I agree. In fact, I think this affects me more as an editor, where I have
to collaborate with clients often with a format they're comfortable with.
Recently I've been using pandoc markdown to write stuff and then outputting
to Word, but the back and forth is really becoming annoying as the other
way around is not a painless route.

For a start, both RTF and DOC formats have some inherent issues. I took
some time to briefly benchmark this and came to the conclusion that they're
not really worth the effort. Try converting a simple RTF or DOC file with
one section and some basic formatting (bold, italic). Abiword, OpenOffice,
Ted -- all had problems. However, DOCX is a different story.

I believe that if we define the simplest use case we are satisfied with we
can come up with a good solution for DOCX, which is a (slightly) documented
format (at least, better than RTF or DOC). Rob Oakes did some work on DOC
[1] but it still involves a number of loops and caveats. You can also find
some programmatic examples for writing DOCX on the web [2] and an HTML
converter. [3]

I wanted to survey the LyX and LaTeX community for some opinions on this,
perhaps to get an idea as to the demand for some research into this area.
The project would do some empirical comparisons of the workarounds and
propose at most two or three solutions that work (integration with Pandoc,
or converintg directly to a simpler and well-supported language).

The emphasis would be on retaining as much semantic meaning as possible,
across different levels of complexity, starting from the very basic. I am
not aware of any similar academic or non-academic effort, but this could
also be a long blog post.


[1] http://blog.oak-tree.us/index.php/2010/05/14/msword-lyx-import
[2] http://www.jackreichert.com/2012/11/09/how-to-convert-docx-to-html/
[3] http://www.textfixer.com/html/convert-word-to-html.php


--
GPG/PGP ID: C0711BF1

Re: beamer documentation

[Jürgen Spitzmüller]

2013/6/11 Csikos Bela

 Where could I find beamer documentation on how to customize or adjust a
 template according to my liking (in the document's preamble)? The user
 guide is quite long still superficial regarding this. For example I would
 like to change the sizes and positioning of the headline and footline,
 changing the navigation icons, etc.


I suppose the best source is the beamer manual. You can also ask specific
questions here, there are quite some beamer users around.

Jürgen

Re: the dreaded docx export - WAS: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[stefano franchi]

On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 2:09 PM, Ray Rashif schivmeis...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 11 June 2013 14:15, Rainer M Krug rai...@krugs.de wrote:

 I wanted to survey the LyX and LaTeX community for some opinions on this,
 perhaps to get an idea as to the demand for some research into this area.
 The project would do some empirical comparisons of the workarounds and
 propose at most two or three solutions that work (integration with Pandoc,
 or converintg directly to a simpler and well-supported language).

 The emphasis would be on retaining as much semantic meaning as possible,
 across different levels of complexity, starting from the very basic. I am
 not aware of any similar academic or non-academic effort, but this could
 also be a long blog post.



HI Ray,

I am not sure about what you're asking, exactly? Perhaps a survey of the
different lyx-doc(x) use cases that current lyx users care most about? Or
rather a definition of the simplest yet still useful use case we can
imagine? If the former, I would suggest starting a page on our wiki,
perhaps as a possible GSoC 2014 project, as a repository of useful cases
people could refer to. If the latter...well I'd need further info because
I'm not really sure what you're aiming for.

Cheers,

Stefano
-- 
__
Stefano Franchi
Associate Research Professor
Department of Hispanic StudiesPh:   +1 (979) 845-2125
Texas AM University  Fax:  +1 (979) 845-6421
College Station, Texas, USA

stef...@tamu.edu
http://stefano.cleinias.org

Re: Place float:figure in this subparagraph

[Paul Rubin]

Short of manually inserting page breaks (and adjusting them whenever the
text changes), I do not think it is possible to do what you want and be
certain that you get the desired result. You can try using \FloatBarrier
from the placeins package
(http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/LaTeX/Floats,_Figures_and_Captions#Keeping_floats_in_their_place).
I have no experience with it, but I suspect that it will disrupt the
formatting of the page in a way similar to your using manually placed page
breaks.

Paul

Re: the dreaded docx export - WAS: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Ray Rashif]

On 12 June 2013 03:57, stefano franchi stefano.fran...@gmail.com wrote:




 On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 2:09 PM, Ray Rashif schivmeis...@gmail.comwrote:

 On 11 June 2013 14:15, Rainer M Krug rai...@krugs.de wrote:

 I wanted to survey the LyX and LaTeX community for some opinions on this,
 perhaps to get an idea as to the demand for some research into this area.
 The project would do some empirical comparisons of the workarounds and
 propose at most two or three solutions that work (integration with Pandoc,
 or converintg directly to a simpler and well-supported language).

 The emphasis would be on retaining as much semantic meaning as possible,
 across different levels of complexity, starting from the very basic. I am
 not aware of any similar academic or non-academic effort, but this could
 also be a long blog post.



 HI Ray,

 I am not sure about what you're asking, exactly? Perhaps a survey of the
 different lyx-doc(x) use cases that current lyx users care most about? Or
 rather a definition of the simplest yet still useful use case we can
 imagine? If the former, I would suggest starting a page on our wiki,
 perhaps as a possible GSoC 2014 project, as a repository of useful cases
 people could refer to. If the latter...well I'd need further info because
 I'm not really sure what you're aiming for.


Hey Stefano

Sorry for the lack of clarity there -- probably a mistake of dumping one or
two things I had on my mind without context. I was referring to
cross-platform document interoperability for collaborative writing and
editing, not really LyX-specific but very much related, and not really a
new issue.

If there are people indeed affected by this, and they would like some
documentation, then I'd like to put in some time to review current issues
and strategies, and produce working code to convert a non-friendly format
into a pluggable one (into LyX, LaTeX, Pandoc) for _only_ the use cases
that matter most (according to the target audience; writers, editors,
fiction or non-fiction).

Often times I have found myself dealing with only a subset of formatting
tools during the first phase of a write-up, in most cases a draft, and I
would often make the mistake of thinking they're simple enough to not break
collaboration. I would assume many of our workflows start with sections,
followed by emphasis (boldface and italics), then simple lists (itemized
and enumerated), footnotes, and finally citations.

Personally I have never needed anything more complex like cross-references,
tables and images -- I always schedule them for later phases because they
interrupt the workflow, although I do make space for them informally (using
characters I can easily search for). At the end of the day, what I have to
deal with is a DOC or DOCX file with semantic comments (that are not
understood by most other tools), no matter where or how I start.

== TL;DR ==
What I'd like is to solve for the missing input formats in e.g. Pandoc. It
does not support RTF, DOC, or DOCX, but supports HTML, which Word does not
output cleanly. Either way, it's something I have had in my mind for some
time, but too busy to investigate or ask around methodically. Getting an
idea of the demand for a solution in this case could force me to invest the
time.

Inspiration: http://gio.act.gov.au/2013/03/13/document-conversion-markdown/


--
GPG/PGP ID: C0711BF1

Re: Lyx at Linuxfest Northwest 2013

[Jayneil Dalal]

Liviu Andronic landronimirc at gmail.com writes:

 
 Hello,
 
 On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 7:13 AM, Jayneil Dalal jayneil.dalal at 
gmail.com wrote:
  http://linuxfestnorthwest.org/content/crash-course-lyx-gui-based-
  alternative-latex
 
 When introducing LyX to people I myself prefer launching a full-blown
 your first document in LyX session, based on LyX_Essentials.pdf (
 https://sites.google.com/site/tsewiki/resources/latex ). So I just
 start showing off how easy it is to create a good looking document in
 LyX, and at the same time explain the differences between LyX and MS
 Word. This is more useful for a workshop than a presentation, but
 gives the audience a very clear idea of it actually is.
 
  I have also started a project on sourceforge called Lyx Live DVD:
 
  https://sourceforge.net/projects/lyxlivedvd/
 
  It is basically Ubuntu 12.04.2 LTS with Lyx, texlive-full package pre-
  installed and configured. So, you can have Lyx wherever you go.
 
 This is a very good initiative. I remember once having big issues
 finding a LiveCD with LyX. Several points:
 - Wouldn't it be better to use a versioning scheme in the name of the
 file ? lyx-12.04.2.iso or similar would be more useful.
 - Is the LiveCD using the PPA (
 https://launchpad.net/~lyx-devel/+archive/release )? Could it be
 configured to use that?
 - And could/should the LiveCD also come pre-configured for the daily
 PPA ( https://launchpad.net/~lyx-devel/+archive/daily )?
 
 Regards,
 Liviu
 
 

Liviu,

Hi! Thanks for replying. 

1. The presentation slides were made so that when people view the talk 
online, they can get started. I started my talk and went over the slides in 
15 minutes and the remaining hour was spent on live demos where I showed 
attendees how to create articles, reports, IEEE paper, resume, presentation 
etc as well as explained differences between MS Word and Lyx.

2. The Lyx Live DVD currently does not use the ppa. Give me some time and I 
will make another image which is configured to use the ppa. Thanks for 
making this wonderful suggestion!

3. Regarding the version name, I thought lyx live dvd just sounded plain 
and simple and since 12.04.2 is LTS, I am probably not going to change that 
version. 

4. Regarding including the daily ppa, I can spin another image and put in a 
separate project like lyx live dvd- developer edition as most people/users 
would want the stable releases. So, it would be better to have two different 
projects for it.

Feel free to give your thoughts/feedback.

Best,

Jayneil.

Re: Simple HTML converter/export

[Bob Alvarez]

On 6/11/13 11:20 AM, Richard Heck wrote:

What sort of thing would you like to be able to do?
I am interested in adding a collapsible text block when I export to an 
HTML page. As an example, I want to have a proof following the statement 
of a mathematical theorem. I would like to put a + sign under the 
theorem so the user can click on it and the proof displays. If the 
reader clicks the + sign again, the proof collapses and disappears.


I have found a javascript example about how to do this at:

http://javascriptsource.com/miscellaneous/collapsible-text.html

Also, it would be good if when I export to pdf none of the javascript stuff 
shows and the proof text is included in the document.


The ordinary article.layout file contains lots of HTML-specific
material. So you could also start by looking at it.

I will study the file.


Bob

Re: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Stephen George]

On 12/06/2013 1:02 AM, Dr Eberhard Lisse wrote:

of course he's right, but then he can google what DILLIGAF stands
for :-)-O

No he can't, with comments like
/open source programs have great appeal for people who want to tinker 
with computers but almost none for those who actually want to do 
something./


He would not be able to use Google as it is running open source 
programs, and he wouldn't use it as it's against his principles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_platform
///Servers are //commodity-class 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodity_computingx86 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86PCs 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_computer//running customized 
versions of //Linux http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux//./


Further to that, finding a book with good amazon ranking would also be 
useless, as Amazon is also running open source, so he also would NOT use 
that service.

http://news.cnet.com/2100-1001-275155.html

In fact he probably doesn't do much web surfing with the open source 
Apache dominating the HTTP internet server market

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_HTTP_Server
/Since April 1996 Apache has been the most popular HTTP server software 
in use. As of December 2012 Apache was estimated to serve 63.7% of all 
active //websites http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Website//and 58.49% of 
the top servers across all domains//

/
There is a big chance the writers forum were he made those comments is 
also powered by an open source program.


Sorry for the outburst, I just can't believe how polarised some people 
are against open source programs.
Personally I dont think you should feed him with fuel, just let it drop 
and continue on with your own life using the programs you enjoy, I dont 
think you have anything to prove. (but I do understand the sense of 
outrage after hearing the comments)


Steve

Re: Lyx at Linuxfest Northwest 2013

[Liviu Andronic]

Hello,


On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 7:13 AM, Jayneil Dalal jayneil.da...@gmail.com wrote:
 http://linuxfestnorthwest.org/content/crash-course-lyx-gui-based-
 alternative-latex

When introducing LyX to people I myself prefer launching a full-blown
your first document in LyX session, based on LyX_Essentials.pdf (
https://sites.google.com/site/tsewiki/resources/latex ). So I just
start showing off how easy it is to create a good looking document in
LyX, and at the same time explain the differences between LyX and MS
Word. This is more useful for a workshop than a presentation, but
gives the audience a very clear idea of it actually is.


 I have also started a project on sourceforge called Lyx Live DVD:

 https://sourceforge.net/projects/lyxlivedvd/

 It is basically Ubuntu 12.04.2 LTS with Lyx, texlive-full package pre-
 installed and configured. So, you can have Lyx wherever you go.

This is a very good initiative. I remember once having big issues
finding a LiveCD with LyX. Several points:
- Wouldn't it be better to use a versioning scheme in the name of the
file ? lyx-12.04.2.iso or similar would be more useful.
- Is the LiveCD using the PPA (
https://launchpad.net/~lyx-devel/+archive/release )? Could it be
configured to use that?
- And could/should the LiveCD also come pre-configured for the daily
PPA ( https://launchpad.net/~lyx-devel/+archive/daily )?

Regards,
Liviu

the dreaded docx export - WAS: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Rainer M Krug]

stefano franchi stefano.fran...@gmail.com writes:

 On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 1:44 PM, Les Denham lden...@hal-pc.org wrote:

 On Sun, 9 Jun 2013 10:32:20 -0500
 stefano franchi stefano.fran...@gmail.com wrote:

  I'm willing to bet you won't find such an example. The reason is
  simple: more or less by definition a best-seller is book produced by
  a major commercial publishing house supported by a consistent
  marketing effort, heavily edited by a professional editor and laid
  out by a (team of ) typesetters according to a carefully designed
  house-specific graphic design project.

 While that is the traditional definition of a best seller, it is
 becoming less and less relevant.


 You may be right. As I said, I'm a pessimist. Yet, I've still to meet the
 production editor of a major publishing house who would accept a manuscript
 in LyX or Latex formats. Whereas I've met editors willing to accept a
 *paper* manuscript and have it retyped in Word.


 I use LyX rather than Word (or its clones) because it allows me to
 produce a presentable document in about half the time it takes with
 Word. This is emphatically the case if it is a document requiring a
 detailed table of contents, an index, or a bibliography, or if it
 contains figures, cross-references or footnotes.


 I guess that's the very reason why we all use LyX. I certainly wouldn't be
 as productive in Word. But those of us working in the Humanities (at least
 some Humanities) then have to budget some time to convert the output to
 Word. Nothing else is accepted. I tend to think best-sellers authors'
 position is closer to us than to a physicist's, a mathematician's or a
 logician's. That's why a minimal and yet reliable LyX-to-Doc converter---a
 topic we've repeatedly discussed on the list---would make such a difference
 to the non-technical user, IMHO.


This developed into a very interesting and I guess useful discussion -
thanks.
And, as you said, it brings back the question of export to docx.

I think I mentioned it already, but I made quite good experiences with
using pandoc[1]:

,
| #
| # FORMATS SECTION ##
| #
| \format msdocx docx Microsoft docx  
/usr/share/playonlinux/playonlinux --run \Microsoft Word 2010\ 
/usr/share/playonlinux/playonlinux --run \Microsoft Word 2010\ 
document,menu=export
| #
| # CONVERTERS SECTION ##
| #
| \converter xhtml msdocx pandoc -o $$o $$i 
`

it is most definitely not perfect, but for reltively simple documents,
it works nicely. I used it to convert a handbook with pictures and
references, but I don't think footnotes, for my co-authors to review and
for sending to layouting.

There are definitely aspects which would need improvement here, but this
was the beast way I could find. 

To improve the export, one could go two ways: improve an existing tool
(e.g. pandoc) to be used as the universal converter, to possibly even
include .lyx as an input format, to produce satisfying non-tex and
non-(x)html outputs, or to write an own tool. 

The question is, how interested people are and how one could get this
(internal ox external to LyX) converter.

I would guess, as not much has materialized after the previous
discussions, that the problem is, that the ones interested in this
feature, do have no time or not enough expertise (myself) to do it. So
how could one still make any progress in this feature? 

I like the idea from Steve, as seeing LyX as a frontend for different
backends for export, where the LaTeX backend is the authoritative one.

And in my personal opinion, it would be a very useful to investigate
pandoc further, as it already has a variety of output formats.
,
| - HTML formats :: XHTML, HTML5, and HTML slide shows using Slidy, Slideous, 
S5, or DZSlides.
| - Word processor formats :: Microsoft Word docx, OpenOffice/LibreOffice ODT, 
OpenDocument XML
| - Ebooks :: EPUB version 2 or 3, FictionBook2
| - Documentation formats :: DocBook, GNU TexInfo, Groff man pages
| - TeX formats :: LaTeX, ConTeXt, LaTeX Beamer slides
| - PDF :: via LaTeX
| - Lightweight markup formats :: Markdown, reStructuredText, AsciiDoc, 
MediaWiki markup, Emacs Org-Mode, Textile
`

These are just ideas from my side, but to try to incorporate pandoc
into LyX in the same way as LaTeX is Incorporated, would make LyX even
more powerful then it is already now.

Cheers,

Rainer



 Cheers,

 S.



Footnotes: 
[1]  http://johnmacfarlane.net/pandoc/

-- 
Rainer M. Krug

email: RMKrugatgmaildotcom


pgpphOicpRgMH.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: Lyx2doc: was Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Richard Heck]

On 06/10/2013 06:05 PM, Steve Litt wrote:

These days, it could be used as a front end to anything with the proper
styles defined, and the proper converter. So the same LyX file could be
used to output LaTeX, MSWord doc, XHTML, HTML, simple HTML, or who
knows what else.

To more easily accommodate this, it seems to me like layout files
should be split into an input side and an output side, with the output
side capable of multiple output formats. So the input side might look
something like this:

CharStyle MyEmph
Font
Shape Italic
EndFont

if outputtype == latex
outputName  latexlayout.layout/myemphL
outputType  Command
elsif outputtype == simplehtml
outputName  simphtmllayout.layout/myemphH
outputType  InlineTag
else outputtype == msword
outputName  winwordlayout.layout/myemphW
outputType  CharacterStyle
End

Environments would be similar.

Ideally it would be designed so that it doesn't syntax check inside the
output type's it's not. That way you can develop one output type at a
time without getting errors from the ones you haven't developed yet.


This can already be done, more or less. That is, I can't imagine 
anything you'd want to do, as far as XHTML export goes, that isn't 
provided for in the layout files.


Indeed, I am sufficiently confident about this that I'd be surprised if 
it were not possible to build the sort of simple HTML export you want 
simply by writing a new layout file.


Richard



It seems to me that something like this would be a logical way of
turning LyX into a universal front end while changing very little of
LyX's core code.

I'm not a good enough programmer to do this in C++, so feel free to view
this suggestion with some healthy skepticism.

Thanks,

SteveT

Steve Litt*  http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Troubleshooting Training  *  Human Performance

Re: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Dr Eberhard Lisse]

Steve,

of course he's right, but then he can google what DILLIGAF stands
for :-)-O

I run a Obstetrician and Gynaecologist's practice for all documents,
letters, reports, some recreated forms, prescriptions, presentations
(beamer and recently discovered beamerposter), statistics (SWEAVE)
and typed my wife's thesis using LyX and BibDesk.

I like NeoOffice (OO on Mac), but only so that I can export to LaTeX
and from there to LyX.

However, I find it as difficult as you to convince people that they
should make it easy on themselves and produce quality output with
minimal effort :-)-O. They are just too lazy...

el


on 2013-06-09 15:36 Steve Litt said the following:
[...]
 ===
 As for Lyx, you need to know that, with very few exceptions —
 none of which immediately come to mind — open source programs
 have great appeal for people who want to tinker with computers but
 almost none for those who actually want to do something.  Such
 apps tend to have butt ugly interfaces and stupid names like Lyx
 and Snort and Gimp and Phlegm.  Last I saw, Lyx wasn't even
 WYSIWYG, for crying out loud.  Forewarned is forewarned.  Or
 something like that.
 ===
[...]

beamer documentation

[Csikos Bela]

Hello:

Where could I find beamer documentation on how to customize or adjust a 
template according to my liking (in the document's preamble)? The user guide is 
quite long still superficial regarding this. For example I would like to change 
the sizes and positioning of the headline and footline, changing the navigation 
icons, etc.

Thanks,

bcsikos

Re: Lyx2doc: was Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[stefano franchi]

On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 9:32 AM, Richard Heck rgh...@lyx.org wrote:

 On 06/10/2013 06:05 PM, Steve Litt wrote:

 This can already be done, more or less. That is, I can't imagine anything
 you'd want to do, as far as XHTML export goes, that isn't provided for in
 the layout files.

 Indeed, I am sufficiently confident about this that I'd be surprised if it
 were not possible to build the sort of simple HTML export you want simply
 by writing a new layout file



Richard,

I just spent the last hour converting a short (2800 words)  lyx/pdf file
into Word. Could you tell me where I should look to fix the problems I
detail below?

Setup: Lyx + memoir + biblatex = Biber. Usually typeset to pdf with
lualatex. . File contained two images (in floats, reduced from the
originals by latex) Archlinux box with TL2012

I tried the elyxer routes (both regular and html(word)) and they failed
with too many errors to report here. I then exported to xhtml, imported
into abiword and exported to doc format. Opened it it libreoffice for final
cleanup.

Here are the problems I found. My guess is that part of these are LyX/XHMTL
issues and part are due to AbiWord.

1. Bibliography did not come over and was just ignored. I had to copy and
paste from the pdf output. Biblatex issue?

2. Footnote text came over but not as a footnote. It was just pasted in the
correct location but as a regular text.

3. Latex special character issues: em-dash as triple hyphen came over as
a triple hyphen and not as an em-dash. tilde as non-breaking space (I
routinely use that in references) came over as tilde.

4. Images were pasted more or less where the floats were inserted, at full
original size.

5. Captions followed the images as regular text.

6. Formatting of the paragraph environment was lost (I guess it's too
deeply nested to have a corresponding h level?)

Are these issues that a proper layout file would sort out?


Cheers,

Stefano

-- 
__
Stefano Franchi
Associate Research Professor
Department of Hispanic StudiesPh:   +1 (979) 845-2125
Texas AM University  Fax:  +1 (979) 845-6421
College Station, Texas, USA

stef...@tamu.edu
http://stefano.cleinias.org

Re: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Wolfgang Keller]

 But I can tell you this guy is going to come back and say he's a great
 and mighty best selling author, ask how many books have I sold. While
 books provide a part of my income, I have no best sellers, either now
 or in the past.
 
 So, when he comes back and asks that, it would be *wonderful* to give
 the writer's list one or more best seller books (I think something
 with an Amazon rank of less than 5000 would do it), to refute his
 statement, by counterexample.

First, LyX is just a GUI, a sort-of-IDE for LaTeX, even though it uses
its own file format. And you would never make a distinction between the
various LaTeX IDEs or editors or front-ends or...

Next, LaTeX (and consequently, any of the various front-ends for it) is
*the* publishing tool within the scientific world. Obviously, no one
would write pulp fiction or non-fiction bestseller books with it,
since those authors aren't scientists.

And concerning .doc as a content exchange format; During my last 25
years of experience with writing documents I have *never*, repeat
*never* seen anyone re-use from a .doc document any content beyond bare
naked unformatted raw text. Even if it was for re-use *within* MS Word.

Paste as unformatted text is the only possibility of content re-use
that the spaghetti-format of Word effectively allows. No matter what
effort you deploy in preparing templates with styles and whatnot - it
won't work, ever.

Sincerely,

Wolfgang

Re: Simple HTML converter/export

[Bob Alvarez]

On 6/10/13 2:23 PM, Richard Heck wrote:

On 06/09/2013 05:22 PM, Bob Alvarez wrote:
  
Let me state my interest in this topic to see if it overlaps with

yours. I agree that HTML exporters like Alex Fernandez' eLyXer do a
great job of producing web pages that look like pdf documents. What I
would want is to be able to add some capabilities to the HTML that
would not be possible in a static format like pdf. But at the same
time, I want to use Lyx's capabilities for formatting the document and
math typesetting.

As an example, I use Lyx to create web pages with a lot of math. Like
most math, it is structured with general statements like theorems with
proofs. Many times, the proof gets in the way of the narrative
although it is important for it to be there if the reader wants to see
it. I saw a website where they added a + sign gadget that if you click
it once displays the proof and then clicking it again hides it.

This is relatively easy to do using the javascript openClose function
http://javascriptsource.com/miscellaneous/collapsible-text.html



The from LyX's own XHTML exporter is substantially customizable through
layout files. I'd be surprised if this sort of thing could be not be
done fairly simply. At worst, you'd have to define some new sort of
inset in which you could wrap whatever you wanted to be opened and closed.

Richard



Could you provide some more details on how I can go about doing this?

I read Ch. 4 of the Additional and Ch. 5 of the Customization but I 
am a beginner at this. Is there a sample XHTML layout file that I can 
modify? For example, one that inserts javascript?


Any help appreciated.

Bob

Re: Lyx2doc: was Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Steve Litt]

On Tue, 11 Jun 2013 10:32:12 -0400
Richard Heck rgh...@lyx.org wrote:

 On 06/10/2013 06:05 PM, Steve Litt wrote:
  These days, it could be used as a front end to anything with the
  proper styles defined, and the proper converter. So the same LyX
  file could be used to output LaTeX, MSWord doc, XHTML, HTML, simple
  HTML, or who knows what else.
 
  To more easily accommodate this, it seems to me like layout files
  should be split into an input side and an output side, with the
  output side capable of multiple output formats. So the input side
  might look something like this:
 
  CharStyle MyEmph
  Font
  Shape Italic
  EndFont
 
  if outputtype == latex
  outputName  latexlayout.layout/myemphL
  outputType  Command
  elsif outputtype == simplehtml
  outputName  simphtmllayout.layout/myemphH
  outputType  InlineTag
  else outputtype == msword
  outputName  winwordlayout.layout/myemphW
  outputType  CharacterStyle
  End
 
  Environments would be similar.
 
  Ideally it would be designed so that it doesn't syntax check inside
  the output type's it's not. That way you can develop one output
  type at a time without getting errors from the ones you haven't
  developed yet.
 
 This can already be done, more or less. That is, I can't imagine 
 anything you'd want to do, as far as XHTML export goes, that isn't 
 provided for in the layout files.
 
 Indeed, I am sufficiently confident about this that I'd be surprised
 if it were not possible to build the sort of simple HTML export you
 want simply by writing a new layout file.

Thanks Richard,

When I tried to do this with my layout file, it failed miserably. Try
as I might, I couldn't get Standard to map to p, nor could I get
Section to map to h1, etc.

SteveT

Steve Litt*  http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Troubleshooting Training  *  Human Performance

Re: Simple HTML converter/export

[Richard Heck]

On 06/11/2013 01:42 PM, Bob Alvarez wrote:

On 6/10/13 2:23 PM, Richard Heck wrote:

On 06/09/2013 05:22 PM, Bob Alvarez wrote:

  Let me state my interest in this topic to see if it overlaps with
yours. I agree that HTML exporters like Alex Fernandez' eLyXer do a
great job of producing web pages that look like pdf documents. What I
would want is to be able to add some capabilities to the HTML that
would not be possible in a static format like pdf. But at the same
time, I want to use Lyx's capabilities for formatting the document and
math typesetting.

As an example, I use Lyx to create web pages with a lot of math. Like
most math, it is structured with general statements like theorems with
proofs. Many times, the proof gets in the way of the narrative
although it is important for it to be there if the reader wants to see
it. I saw a website where they added a + sign gadget that if you click
it once displays the proof and then clicking it again hides it.

This is relatively easy to do using the javascript openClose function
http://javascriptsource.com/miscellaneous/collapsible-text.html



The from LyX's own XHTML exporter is substantially customizable through
layout files. I'd be surprised if this sort of thing could be not be
done fairly simply. At worst, you'd have to define some new sort of
inset in which you could wrap whatever you wanted to be opened and 
closed.


Richard



Could you provide some more details on how I can go about doing this?

I read Ch. 4 of the Additional and Ch. 5 of the Customization but 
I am a beginner at this. Is there a sample XHTML layout file that I 
can modify? For example, one that inserts javascript?


What sort of thing would you like to be able to do? That would give me a 
better sense of how to answer. But for some ideas, look perhaps at how 
footnotes are formatted in the file stdinsets.inc.


The ordinary article.layout file contains lots of HTML-specific 
material. So you could also start by looking at it. My sense was that 
what Steve wants is a kind of stripped-down layout, that is closely 
targeted to making simple HTML pages. So, in that case, you might have 
much simpler stuff than in the complex layouts we have.


Richard

Re: Lyx2doc: was Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Richard Heck]

On 06/11/2013 01:18 PM, stefano franchi wrote:



Here are the problems I found. My guess is that part of these are 
LyX/XHMTL issues and part are due to AbiWord.


1. Bibliography did not come over and was just ignored. I had to copy 
and paste from the pdf output. Biblatex issue?


Probably. If there's no BibTeX inset, then the bibliography will not be 
produced, and I guess you don't have that for BibLaTeX, except maybe in 
a note. So this is really an effect of the fact that we have no formal 
support for BibLaTeX.


2. Footnote text came over but not as a footnote. It was just pasted 
in the correct location but as a regular text.


Footnotes are just exported as div's, with class=footnote, so AbiWord 
or whatever will not recognize it as a footnote. There's not really any 
HTML equivalent of a footnote, so I'm not sure there is much to be done 
here.


3. Latex special character issues: em-dash as triple hyphen came 
over as a triple hyphen and not as an em-dash. tilde as non-breaking 
space (I routinely use that in references) came over as tilde.


The em-dash SHOULD be exported as such. There's code in 
Paragraph::simpleLyXHTMLOnePar() that is supposed to handle this. It 
works for me in a simple test document.


The tilde is a different story. Can you file a bug about that? We do 
some LaTeX -- HTML conversion here, handling things like \u, so I just 
need to add handling of ~.


4. Images were pasted more or less where the floats were inserted, at 
full original size.


Another bug. I suppose we should scale them somehow? Please post a bug 
about this, too.


There's not really anything to do other than put the images where they 
are inserted. HTML has no concept of a page, so the placement options 
make no sense.



5. Captions followed the images as regular text.


Similar to the footnote problem, I think. Probably we should switch to 
using the new figure tag and the associated figcaption tag. Can you 
also file a bug about that?


6. Formatting of the paragraph environment was lost (I guess it's 
too deeply nested to have a corresponding h level?)


I forgot to include a tag for those. I've just fixed that for the next 
release. See

http://git.lyx.org/?p=lyx.git;a=commit;h=c6a08bc4421c960dc8148a95eb68ba90c2f95ff5
for the commit.

Sorry to ask for so much bug-filing. With 2.1 on the horizon, I can't do 
very much right now, as Vincent has trunk pretty locked.


Richard

Re: Lyx2doc: was Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Richard Heck]

On 06/11/2013 02:03 PM, Steve Litt wrote:

On Tue, 11 Jun 2013 10:32:12 -0400
Richard Heck rgh...@lyx.org wrote:


On 06/10/2013 06:05 PM, Steve Litt wrote:

These days, it could be used as a front end to anything with the
proper styles defined, and the proper converter. So the same LyX
file could be used to output LaTeX, MSWord doc, XHTML, HTML, simple
HTML, or who knows what else.

To more easily accommodate this, it seems to me like layout files
should be split into an input side and an output side, with the
output side capable of multiple output formats. So the input side
might look something like this:

CharStyle MyEmph
Font
Shape Italic
EndFont

if outputtype == latex
 outputName latexlayout.layout/myemphL
 outputType Command
elsif outputtype == simplehtml
 outputName simphtmllayout.layout/myemphH
 outputType InlineTag
else outputtype == msword
 outputName winwordlayout.layout/myemphW
 outputType CharacterStyle
End

Environments would be similar.

Ideally it would be designed so that it doesn't syntax check inside
the output type's it's not. That way you can develop one output
type at a time without getting errors from the ones you haven't
developed yet.

This can already be done, more or less. That is, I can't imagine
anything you'd want to do, as far as XHTML export goes, that isn't
provided for in the layout files.

Indeed, I am sufficiently confident about this that I'd be surprised
if it were not possible to build the sort of simple HTML export you
want simply by writing a new layout file.

Thanks Richard,

When I tried to do this with my layout file, it failed miserably. Try
as I might, I couldn't get Standard to map to p, nor could I get
Section to map to h1, etc.


If you want to send me your layout file, I will get it working.

Richard

Re: the dreaded docx export - WAS: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Ray Rashif]

On 11 June 2013 14:15, Rainer M Krug rai...@krugs.de wrote:

 These are just ideas from my side, but to try to incorporate pandoc
 into LyX in the same way as LaTeX is Incorporated, would make LyX even
 more powerful then it is already now.


I agree. In fact, I think this affects me more as an editor, where I have
to collaborate with clients often with a format they're comfortable with.
Recently I've been using pandoc markdown to write stuff and then outputting
to Word, but the back and forth is really becoming annoying as the other
way around is not a painless route.

For a start, both RTF and DOC formats have some inherent issues. I took
some time to briefly benchmark this and came to the conclusion that they're
not really worth the effort. Try converting a simple RTF or DOC file with
one section and some basic formatting (bold, italic). Abiword, OpenOffice,
Ted -- all had problems. However, DOCX is a different story.

I believe that if we define the simplest use case we are satisfied with we
can come up with a good solution for DOCX, which is a (slightly) documented
format (at least, better than RTF or DOC). Rob Oakes did some work on DOC
[1] but it still involves a number of loops and caveats. You can also find
some programmatic examples for writing DOCX on the web [2] and an HTML
converter. [3]

I wanted to survey the LyX and LaTeX community for some opinions on this,
perhaps to get an idea as to the demand for some research into this area.
The project would do some empirical comparisons of the workarounds and
propose at most two or three solutions that work (integration with Pandoc,
or converintg directly to a simpler and well-supported language).

The emphasis would be on retaining as much semantic meaning as possible,
across different levels of complexity, starting from the very basic. I am
not aware of any similar academic or non-academic effort, but this could
also be a long blog post.


[1] http://blog.oak-tree.us/index.php/2010/05/14/msword-lyx-import
[2] http://www.jackreichert.com/2012/11/09/how-to-convert-docx-to-html/
[3] http://www.textfixer.com/html/convert-word-to-html.php


--
GPG/PGP ID: C0711BF1

Re: beamer documentation

[Jürgen Spitzmüller]

2013/6/11 Csikos Bela

 Where could I find beamer documentation on how to customize or adjust a
 template according to my liking (in the document's preamble)? The user
 guide is quite long still superficial regarding this. For example I would
 like to change the sizes and positioning of the headline and footline,
 changing the navigation icons, etc.


I suppose the best source is the beamer manual. You can also ask specific
questions here, there are quite some beamer users around.

Jürgen

Re: the dreaded docx export - WAS: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[stefano franchi]

On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 2:09 PM, Ray Rashif schivmeis...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 11 June 2013 14:15, Rainer M Krug rai...@krugs.de wrote:

 I wanted to survey the LyX and LaTeX community for some opinions on this,
 perhaps to get an idea as to the demand for some research into this area.
 The project would do some empirical comparisons of the workarounds and
 propose at most two or three solutions that work (integration with Pandoc,
 or converintg directly to a simpler and well-supported language).

 The emphasis would be on retaining as much semantic meaning as possible,
 across different levels of complexity, starting from the very basic. I am
 not aware of any similar academic or non-academic effort, but this could
 also be a long blog post.



HI Ray,

I am not sure about what you're asking, exactly? Perhaps a survey of the
different lyx-doc(x) use cases that current lyx users care most about? Or
rather a definition of the simplest yet still useful use case we can
imagine? If the former, I would suggest starting a page on our wiki,
perhaps as a possible GSoC 2014 project, as a repository of useful cases
people could refer to. If the latter...well I'd need further info because
I'm not really sure what you're aiming for.

Cheers,

Stefano
-- 
__
Stefano Franchi
Associate Research Professor
Department of Hispanic StudiesPh:   +1 (979) 845-2125
Texas AM University  Fax:  +1 (979) 845-6421
College Station, Texas, USA

stef...@tamu.edu
http://stefano.cleinias.org

Re: Place float:figure in this subparagraph

[Paul Rubin]

Short of manually inserting page breaks (and adjusting them whenever the
text changes), I do not think it is possible to do what you want and be
certain that you get the desired result. You can try using \FloatBarrier
from the placeins package
(http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/LaTeX/Floats,_Figures_and_Captions#Keeping_floats_in_their_place).
I have no experience with it, but I suspect that it will disrupt the
formatting of the page in a way similar to your using manually placed page
breaks.

Paul

Re: the dreaded docx export - WAS: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Ray Rashif]

On 12 June 2013 03:57, stefano franchi stefano.fran...@gmail.com wrote:




 On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 2:09 PM, Ray Rashif schivmeis...@gmail.comwrote:

 On 11 June 2013 14:15, Rainer M Krug rai...@krugs.de wrote:

 I wanted to survey the LyX and LaTeX community for some opinions on this,
 perhaps to get an idea as to the demand for some research into this area.
 The project would do some empirical comparisons of the workarounds and
 propose at most two or three solutions that work (integration with Pandoc,
 or converintg directly to a simpler and well-supported language).

 The emphasis would be on retaining as much semantic meaning as possible,
 across different levels of complexity, starting from the very basic. I am
 not aware of any similar academic or non-academic effort, but this could
 also be a long blog post.



 HI Ray,

 I am not sure about what you're asking, exactly? Perhaps a survey of the
 different lyx-doc(x) use cases that current lyx users care most about? Or
 rather a definition of the simplest yet still useful use case we can
 imagine? If the former, I would suggest starting a page on our wiki,
 perhaps as a possible GSoC 2014 project, as a repository of useful cases
 people could refer to. If the latter...well I'd need further info because
 I'm not really sure what you're aiming for.


Hey Stefano

Sorry for the lack of clarity there -- probably a mistake of dumping one or
two things I had on my mind without context. I was referring to
cross-platform document interoperability for collaborative writing and
editing, not really LyX-specific but very much related, and not really a
new issue.

If there are people indeed affected by this, and they would like some
documentation, then I'd like to put in some time to review current issues
and strategies, and produce working code to convert a non-friendly format
into a pluggable one (into LyX, LaTeX, Pandoc) for _only_ the use cases
that matter most (according to the target audience; writers, editors,
fiction or non-fiction).

Often times I have found myself dealing with only a subset of formatting
tools during the first phase of a write-up, in most cases a draft, and I
would often make the mistake of thinking they're simple enough to not break
collaboration. I would assume many of our workflows start with sections,
followed by emphasis (boldface and italics), then simple lists (itemized
and enumerated), footnotes, and finally citations.

Personally I have never needed anything more complex like cross-references,
tables and images -- I always schedule them for later phases because they
interrupt the workflow, although I do make space for them informally (using
characters I can easily search for). At the end of the day, what I have to
deal with is a DOC or DOCX file with semantic comments (that are not
understood by most other tools), no matter where or how I start.

== TL;DR ==
What I'd like is to solve for the missing input formats in e.g. Pandoc. It
does not support RTF, DOC, or DOCX, but supports HTML, which Word does not
output cleanly. Either way, it's something I have had in my mind for some
time, but too busy to investigate or ask around methodically. Getting an
idea of the demand for a solution in this case could force me to invest the
time.

Inspiration: http://gio.act.gov.au/2013/03/13/document-conversion-markdown/


--
GPG/PGP ID: C0711BF1

Re: Lyx at Linuxfest Northwest 2013

[Jayneil Dalal]

Liviu Andronic landronimirc at gmail.com writes:

 
 Hello,
 
 On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 7:13 AM, Jayneil Dalal jayneil.dalal at 
gmail.com wrote:
  http://linuxfestnorthwest.org/content/crash-course-lyx-gui-based-
  alternative-latex
 
 When introducing LyX to people I myself prefer launching a full-blown
 your first document in LyX session, based on LyX_Essentials.pdf (
 https://sites.google.com/site/tsewiki/resources/latex ). So I just
 start showing off how easy it is to create a good looking document in
 LyX, and at the same time explain the differences between LyX and MS
 Word. This is more useful for a workshop than a presentation, but
 gives the audience a very clear idea of it actually is.
 
  I have also started a project on sourceforge called Lyx Live DVD:
 
  https://sourceforge.net/projects/lyxlivedvd/
 
  It is basically Ubuntu 12.04.2 LTS with Lyx, texlive-full package pre-
  installed and configured. So, you can have Lyx wherever you go.
 
 This is a very good initiative. I remember once having big issues
 finding a LiveCD with LyX. Several points:
 - Wouldn't it be better to use a versioning scheme in the name of the
 file ? lyx-12.04.2.iso or similar would be more useful.
 - Is the LiveCD using the PPA (
 https://launchpad.net/~lyx-devel/+archive/release )? Could it be
 configured to use that?
 - And could/should the LiveCD also come pre-configured for the daily
 PPA ( https://launchpad.net/~lyx-devel/+archive/daily )?
 
 Regards,
 Liviu
 
 

Liviu,

Hi! Thanks for replying. 

1. The presentation slides were made so that when people view the talk 
online, they can get started. I started my talk and went over the slides in 
15 minutes and the remaining hour was spent on live demos where I showed 
attendees how to create articles, reports, IEEE paper, resume, presentation 
etc as well as explained differences between MS Word and Lyx.

2. The Lyx Live DVD currently does not use the ppa. Give me some time and I 
will make another image which is configured to use the ppa. Thanks for 
making this wonderful suggestion!

3. Regarding the version name, I thought lyx live dvd just sounded plain 
and simple and since 12.04.2 is LTS, I am probably not going to change that 
version. 

4. Regarding including the daily ppa, I can spin another image and put in a 
separate project like lyx live dvd- developer edition as most people/users 
would want the stable releases. So, it would be better to have two different 
projects for it.

Feel free to give your thoughts/feedback.

Best,

Jayneil.

Re: Simple HTML converter/export

[Bob Alvarez]

On 6/11/13 11:20 AM, Richard Heck wrote:

What sort of thing would you like to be able to do?
I am interested in adding a collapsible text block when I export to an 
HTML page. As an example, I want to have a proof following the statement 
of a mathematical theorem. I would like to put a + sign under the 
theorem so the user can click on it and the proof displays. If the 
reader clicks the + sign again, the proof collapses and disappears.


I have found a javascript example about how to do this at:

http://javascriptsource.com/miscellaneous/collapsible-text.html

Also, it would be good if when I export to pdf none of the javascript stuff 
shows and the proof text is included in the document.


The ordinary article.layout file contains lots of HTML-specific
material. So you could also start by looking at it.

I will study the file.


Bob

Re: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Stephen George]

On 12/06/2013 1:02 AM, Dr Eberhard Lisse wrote:

of course he's right, but then he can google what DILLIGAF stands
for :-)-O

No he can't, with comments like
/open source programs have great appeal for people who want to tinker 
with computers but almost none for those who actually want to do 
something./


He would not be able to use Google as it is running open source 
programs, and he wouldn't use it as it's against his principles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_platform
///Servers are //commodity-class 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodity_computingx86 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86PCs 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_computer//running customized 
versions of //Linux http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux//./


Further to that, finding a book with good amazon ranking would also be 
useless, as Amazon is also running open source, so he also would NOT use 
that service.

http://news.cnet.com/2100-1001-275155.html

In fact he probably doesn't do much web surfing with the open source 
Apache dominating the HTTP internet server market

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_HTTP_Server
/Since April 1996 Apache has been the most popular HTTP server software 
in use. As of December 2012 Apache was estimated to serve 63.7% of all 
active //websites http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Website//and 58.49% of 
the top servers across all domains//

/
There is a big chance the writers forum were he made those comments is 
also powered by an open source program.


Sorry for the outburst, I just can't believe how polarised some people 
are against open source programs.
Personally I dont think you should feed him with fuel, just let it drop 
and continue on with your own life using the programs you enjoy, I dont 
think you have anything to prove. (but I do understand the sense of 
outrage after hearing the comments)


Steve

Re: Lyx at Linuxfest Northwest 2013

[Liviu Andronic]

Hello,


On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 7:13 AM, Jayneil Dalal  wrote:
> http://linuxfestnorthwest.org/content/crash-course-lyx-gui-based-
> alternative-latex
>
When introducing LyX to people I myself prefer launching a full-blown
"your first document in LyX" session, based on LyX_Essentials.pdf (
https://sites.google.com/site/tsewiki/resources/latex ). So I just
start showing off how easy it is to create a good looking document in
LyX, and at the same time explain the differences between LyX and MS
Word. This is more useful for a workshop than a presentation, but
gives the audience a very clear idea of it actually is.


> I have also started a project on sourceforge called Lyx Live DVD:
>
> https://sourceforge.net/projects/lyxlivedvd/
>
> It is basically Ubuntu 12.04.2 LTS with Lyx, texlive-full package pre-
> installed and configured. So, you can have Lyx wherever you go.
>
This is a very good initiative. I remember once having big issues
finding a LiveCD with LyX. Several points:
- Wouldn't it be better to use a versioning scheme in the name of the
file ? lyx-12.04.2.iso or similar would be more useful.
- Is the LiveCD using the PPA (
https://launchpad.net/~lyx-devel/+archive/release )? Could it be
configured to use that?
- And could/should the LiveCD also come pre-configured for the daily
PPA ( https://launchpad.net/~lyx-devel/+archive/daily )?

Regards,
Liviu

the dreaded docx export - WAS: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Rainer M Krug]

stefano franchi  writes:

> On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 1:44 PM, Les Denham  wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 9 Jun 2013 10:32:20 -0500
>> stefano franchi  wrote:
>>
>> > I'm willing to bet you won't find such an example. The reason is
>> > simple: more or less by definition a best-seller is book produced by
>> > a major commercial publishing house supported by a consistent
>> > marketing effort, heavily edited by a professional editor and laid
>> > out by a (team of ) typesetters according to a carefully designed
>> > house-specific graphic design project.
>>
>> While that is the traditional definition of a best seller, it is
>> becoming less and less relevant.
>>
>
> You may be right. As I said, I'm a pessimist. Yet, I've still to meet the
> production editor of a major publishing house who would accept a manuscript
> in LyX or Latex formats. Whereas I've met editors willing to accept a
> *paper* manuscript and have it retyped in Word.
>
>
>> I use LyX rather than Word (or its clones) because it allows me to
>> produce a presentable document in about half the time it takes with
>> Word. This is emphatically the case if it is a document requiring a
>> detailed table of contents, an index, or a bibliography, or if it
>> contains figures, cross-references or footnotes.
>>
>>
> I guess that's the very reason why we all use LyX. I certainly wouldn't be
> as productive in Word. But those of us working in the Humanities (at least
> some Humanities) then have to budget some time to convert the output to
> Word. Nothing else is accepted. I tend to think best-sellers authors'
> position is closer to us than to a physicist's, a mathematician's or a
> logician's. That's why a minimal and yet reliable LyX-to-Doc converter---a
> topic we've repeatedly discussed on the list---would make such a difference
> to the non-technical user, IMHO.
>

This developed into a very interesting and I guess useful discussion -
thanks.
And, as you said, it brings back the question of export to docx.

I think I mentioned it already, but I made quite good experiences with
using pandoc[1]:

,
| #
| # FORMATS SECTION ##
| #
| \format "msdocx" "docx" "Microsoft docx" "" 
"/usr/share/playonlinux/playonlinux --run \"Microsoft Word 2010\"" 
"/usr/share/playonlinux/playonlinux --run \"Microsoft Word 2010\"" 
"document,menu=export"
| #
| # CONVERTERS SECTION ##
| #
| \converter "xhtml" "msdocx" "pandoc -o $$o $$i" ""
`

it is most definitely not perfect, but for reltively simple documents,
it works nicely. I used it to convert a handbook with pictures and
references, but I don't think footnotes, for my co-authors to review and
for sending to layouting.

There are definitely aspects which would need improvement here, but this
was the beast way I could find. 

To improve the export, one could go two ways: improve an existing tool
(e.g. pandoc) to be used as the universal converter, to possibly even
include .lyx as an input format, to produce satisfying non-tex and
non-(x)html outputs, or to write an own tool. 

The question is, how interested people are and how one could get this
(internal ox external to LyX) converter.

I would guess, as not much has materialized after the previous
discussions, that the problem is, that the ones interested in this
feature, do have no time or not enough expertise (myself) to do it. So
how could one still make any progress in this feature? 

I like the idea from Steve, as seeing LyX as a frontend for different
backends for export, where the LaTeX backend is the authoritative one.

And in my personal opinion, it would be a very useful to investigate
pandoc further, as it already has a variety of output formats.
,
| - HTML formats :: XHTML, HTML5, and HTML slide shows using Slidy, Slideous, 
S5, or DZSlides.
| - Word processor formats :: Microsoft Word docx, OpenOffice/LibreOffice ODT, 
OpenDocument XML
| - Ebooks :: EPUB version 2 or 3, FictionBook2
| - Documentation formats :: DocBook, GNU TexInfo, Groff man pages
| - TeX formats :: LaTeX, ConTeXt, LaTeX Beamer slides
| - PDF :: via LaTeX
| - Lightweight markup formats :: Markdown, reStructuredText, AsciiDoc, 
MediaWiki markup, Emacs Org-Mode, Textile
`

These are just ideas from my side, but to try to incorporate pandoc
into LyX in the same way as LaTeX is Incorporated, would make LyX even
more powerful then it is already now.

Cheers,

Rainer

>
>
> Cheers,
>
> S.



Footnotes: 
[1]  http://johnmacfarlane.net/pandoc/

-- 
Rainer M. Krug

email: RMKruggmailcom


pgpphOicpRgMH.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: Lyx2doc: was Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Richard Heck]

On 06/10/2013 06:05 PM, Steve Litt wrote:

These days, it could be used as a front end to anything with the proper
styles defined, and the proper converter. So the same LyX file could be
used to output LaTeX, MSWord doc, XHTML, HTML, simple HTML, or who
knows what else.

To more easily accommodate this, it seems to me like layout files
should be split into an input side and an output side, with the output
side capable of multiple output formats. So the input side might look
something like this:

CharStyle MyEmph
Font
Shape Italic
EndFont

if outputtype == latex
outputName  latexlayout.layout/myemphL
outputType  Command
elsif outputtype == simplehtml
outputName  simphtmllayout.layout/myemphH
outputType  InlineTag
else outputtype == msword
outputName  winwordlayout.layout/myemphW
outputType  CharacterStyle
End

Environments would be similar.

Ideally it would be designed so that it doesn't syntax check inside the
output type's it's not. That way you can develop one output type at a
time without getting errors from the ones you haven't developed yet.


This can already be done, more or less. That is, I can't imagine 
anything you'd want to do, as far as XHTML export goes, that isn't 
provided for in the layout files.


Indeed, I am sufficiently confident about this that I'd be surprised if 
it were not possible to build the sort of simple HTML export you want 
simply by writing a new layout file.


Richard



It seems to me that something like this would be a logical way of
turning LyX into a universal front end while changing very little of
LyX's core code.

I'm not a good enough programmer to do this in C++, so feel free to view
this suggestion with some healthy skepticism.

Thanks,

SteveT

Steve Litt*  http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Troubleshooting Training  *  Human Performance

Re: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Dr Eberhard Lisse]

Steve,

of course he's right, but then he can google what DILLIGAF stands
for :-)-O

I run a Obstetrician and Gynaecologist's practice for all documents,
letters, reports, some recreated forms, prescriptions, presentations
(beamer and recently discovered beamerposter), statistics (SWEAVE)
and typed my wife's thesis using LyX and BibDesk.

I like NeoOffice (OO on Mac), but only so that I can export to LaTeX
and from there to LyX.

However, I find it as difficult as you to convince people that they
should make it easy on themselves and produce quality output with
minimal effort :-)-O. They are just too lazy...

el


on 2013-06-09 15:36 Steve Litt said the following:
[...]
> ===
> "As for Lyx, you need to know that, with very few exceptions —
> none of which immediately come to mind — open source programs
> have great appeal for people who want to tinker with computers but
> almost none for those who actually want to do something.  Such
> apps tend to have butt ugly interfaces and stupid names like Lyx
> and Snort and Gimp and Phlegm.  Last I saw, Lyx wasn't even
> WYSIWYG, for crying out loud.  Forewarned is forewarned.  Or
> something like that."
> ===
[...]

beamer documentation

[Csikos Bela]

Hello:

Where could I find beamer documentation on how to customize or adjust a 
template according to my liking (in the document's preamble)? The user guide is 
quite long still superficial regarding this. For example I would like to change 
the sizes and positioning of the headline and footline, changing the navigation 
icons, etc.

Thanks,

bcsikos

Re: Lyx2doc: was Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[stefano franchi]

On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 9:32 AM, Richard Heck  wrote:

> On 06/10/2013 06:05 PM, Steve Litt wrote:
>
> This can already be done, more or less. That is, I can't imagine anything
> you'd want to do, as far as XHTML export goes, that isn't provided for in
> the layout files.
>
> Indeed, I am sufficiently confident about this that I'd be surprised if it
> were not possible to build the sort of simple HTML export you want simply
> by writing a new layout file



Richard,

I just spent the last hour converting a short (2800 words)  lyx/pdf file
into Word. Could you tell me where I should look to fix the problems I
detail below?

Setup: Lyx + memoir + biblatex = Biber. Usually typeset to pdf with
lualatex. . File contained two images (in floats, reduced from the
originals by latex) Archlinux box with TL2012

I tried the elyxer routes (both regular and html(word)) and they failed
with too many errors to report here. I then exported to xhtml, imported
into abiword and exported to doc format. Opened it it libreoffice for final
cleanup.

Here are the problems I found. My guess is that part of these are LyX/XHMTL
issues and part are due to AbiWord.

1. Bibliography did not come over and was just ignored. I had to copy and
paste from the pdf output. Biblatex issue?

2. Footnote text came over but not as a footnote. It was just pasted in the
correct location but as a regular text.

3. Latex special character issues: "em-dash as triple hyphen" came over as
a triple hyphen and not as an em-dash. "tilde as non-breaking space" (I
routinely use that in references) came over as tilde.

4. Images were pasted more or less where the floats were inserted, at full
original size.

5. Captions followed the images as regular text.

6. Formatting of the "paragraph" environment was lost (I guess it's too
deeply nested to have a corresponding h level?)

Are these issues that a proper layout file would sort out?


Cheers,

Stefano

-- 
__
Stefano Franchi
Associate Research Professor
Department of Hispanic StudiesPh:   +1 (979) 845-2125
Texas A University  Fax:  +1 (979) 845-6421
College Station, Texas, USA

stef...@tamu.edu
http://stefano.cleinias.org

Re: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Wolfgang Keller]

> But I can tell you this guy is going to come back and say he's a great
> and mighty best selling author, ask how many books have I sold. While
> books provide a part of my income, I have no best sellers, either now
> or in the past.
> 
> So, when he comes back and asks that, it would be *wonderful* to give
> the writer's list one or more best seller books (I think something
> with an Amazon rank of less than 5000 would do it), to refute his
> statement, by counterexample.

First, LyX is just a GUI, a sort-of-IDE for LaTeX, even though it uses
its own file format. And you would never make a distinction between the
various LaTeX IDEs or editors or front-ends or...

Next, LaTeX (and consequently, any of the various front-ends for it) is
*the* publishing tool within the scientific world. Obviously, no one
would write pulp fiction or non-fiction "bestseller" books with it,
since those authors aren't scientists.

And concerning .doc as a content exchange format; During my last 25
years of experience with writing documents I have *never*, repeat
*never* seen anyone re-use from a .doc document any content beyond bare
naked unformatted raw text. Even if it was for re-use *within* MS Word.

"Paste as unformatted text" is the only possibility of content re-use
that the spaghetti-format of Word effectively allows. No matter what
effort you deploy in preparing templates with styles and whatnot - it
won't work, ever.

Sincerely,

Wolfgang

Re: Simple HTML converter/export

[Bob Alvarez]

On 6/10/13 2:23 PM, Richard Heck wrote:

On 06/09/2013 05:22 PM, Bob Alvarez wrote:
  
Let me state my interest in this topic to see if it overlaps with

yours. I agree that HTML exporters like Alex Fernandez' eLyXer do a
great job of producing web pages that look like pdf documents. What I
would want is to be able to add some capabilities to the HTML that
would not be possible in a static format like pdf. But at the same
time, I want to use Lyx's capabilities for formatting the document and
math typesetting.

As an example, I use Lyx to create web pages with a lot of math. Like
most math, it is structured with general statements like theorems with
proofs. Many times, the proof gets in the way of the narrative
although it is important for it to be there if the reader wants to see
it. I saw a website where they added a + sign gadget that if you click
it once displays the proof and then clicking it again hides it.

This is relatively easy to do using the javascript openClose function
http://javascriptsource.com/miscellaneous/collapsible-text.html



The from LyX's own XHTML exporter is substantially customizable through
layout files. I'd be surprised if this sort of thing could be not be
done fairly simply. At worst, you'd have to define some new sort of
inset in which you could wrap whatever you wanted to be opened and closed.

Richard



Could you provide some more details on how I can go about doing this?

I read Ch. 4 of the "Additional" and Ch. 5 of the "Customization" but I 
am a beginner at this. Is there a sample XHTML layout file that I can 
modify? For example, one that inserts javascript?


Any help appreciated.

Bob

Re: Lyx2doc: was Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Steve Litt]

On Tue, 11 Jun 2013 10:32:12 -0400
Richard Heck  wrote:

> On 06/10/2013 06:05 PM, Steve Litt wrote:
> > These days, it could be used as a front end to anything with the
> > proper styles defined, and the proper converter. So the same LyX
> > file could be used to output LaTeX, MSWord doc, XHTML, HTML, simple
> > HTML, or who knows what else.
> >
> > To more easily accommodate this, it seems to me like layout files
> > should be split into an input side and an output side, with the
> > output side capable of multiple output formats. So the input side
> > might look something like this:
> >
> > CharStyle MyEmph
> > Font
> > Shape Italic
> > EndFont
> >
> > if outputtype == latex
> > outputName  latexlayout.layout/myemphL
> > outputType  Command
> > elsif outputtype == simplehtml
> > outputName  simphtmllayout.layout/myemphH
> > outputType  InlineTag
> > else outputtype == msword
> > outputName  winwordlayout.layout/myemphW
> > outputType  CharacterStyle
> > End
> >
> > Environments would be similar.
> >
> > Ideally it would be designed so that it doesn't syntax check inside
> > the output type's it's not. That way you can develop one output
> > type at a time without getting errors from the ones you haven't
> > developed yet.
> 
> This can already be done, more or less. That is, I can't imagine 
> anything you'd want to do, as far as XHTML export goes, that isn't 
> provided for in the layout files.
> 
> Indeed, I am sufficiently confident about this that I'd be surprised
> if it were not possible to build the sort of simple HTML export you
> want simply by writing a new layout file.

Thanks Richard,

When I tried to do this with my layout file, it failed miserably. Try
as I might, I couldn't get Standard to map to , nor could I get
Section to map to , etc.

SteveT

Steve Litt*  http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Troubleshooting Training  *  Human Performance

Re: Simple HTML converter/export

[Richard Heck]

On 06/11/2013 01:42 PM, Bob Alvarez wrote:

On 6/10/13 2:23 PM, Richard Heck wrote:

On 06/09/2013 05:22 PM, Bob Alvarez wrote:

  Let me state my interest in this topic to see if it overlaps with
yours. I agree that HTML exporters like Alex Fernandez' eLyXer do a
great job of producing web pages that look like pdf documents. What I
would want is to be able to add some capabilities to the HTML that
would not be possible in a static format like pdf. But at the same
time, I want to use Lyx's capabilities for formatting the document and
math typesetting.

As an example, I use Lyx to create web pages with a lot of math. Like
most math, it is structured with general statements like theorems with
proofs. Many times, the proof gets in the way of the narrative
although it is important for it to be there if the reader wants to see
it. I saw a website where they added a + sign gadget that if you click
it once displays the proof and then clicking it again hides it.

This is relatively easy to do using the javascript openClose function
http://javascriptsource.com/miscellaneous/collapsible-text.html



The from LyX's own XHTML exporter is substantially customizable through
layout files. I'd be surprised if this sort of thing could be not be
done fairly simply. At worst, you'd have to define some new sort of
inset in which you could wrap whatever you wanted to be opened and 
closed.


Richard



Could you provide some more details on how I can go about doing this?

I read Ch. 4 of the "Additional" and Ch. 5 of the "Customization" but 
I am a beginner at this. Is there a sample XHTML layout file that I 
can modify? For example, one that inserts javascript?


What sort of thing would you like to be able to do? That would give me a 
better sense of how to answer. But for some ideas, look perhaps at how 
footnotes are formatted in the file stdinsets.inc.


The ordinary article.layout file contains lots of HTML-specific 
material. So you could also start by looking at it. My sense was that 
what Steve wants is a kind of stripped-down layout, that is closely 
targeted to making simple HTML pages. So, in that case, you might have 
much simpler stuff than in the complex layouts we have.


Richard

Re: Lyx2doc: was Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Richard Heck]

On 06/11/2013 01:18 PM, stefano franchi wrote:



Here are the problems I found. My guess is that part of these are 
LyX/XHMTL issues and part are due to AbiWord.


1. Bibliography did not come over and was just ignored. I had to copy 
and paste from the pdf output. Biblatex issue?


Probably. If there's no BibTeX inset, then the bibliography will not be 
produced, and I guess you don't have that for BibLaTeX, except maybe in 
a note. So this is really an effect of the fact that we have no formal 
support for BibLaTeX.


2. Footnote text came over but not as a footnote. It was just pasted 
in the correct location but as a regular text.


Footnotes are just exported as div's, with class="footnote", so AbiWord 
or whatever will not recognize it as a footnote. There's not really any 
HTML equivalent of a footnote, so I'm not sure there is much to be done 
here.


3. Latex special character issues: "em-dash as triple hyphen" came 
over as a triple hyphen and not as an em-dash. "tilde as non-breaking 
space" (I routinely use that in references) came over as tilde.


The em-dash SHOULD be exported as such. There's code in 
Paragraph::simpleLyXHTMLOnePar() that is supposed to handle this. It 
works for me in a simple test document.


The tilde is a different story. Can you file a bug about that? We do 
some LaTeX --> HTML conversion here, handling things like \"u, so I just 
need to add handling of ~.


4. Images were pasted more or less where the floats were inserted, at 
full original size.


Another bug. I suppose we should scale them somehow? Please post a bug 
about this, too.


There's not really anything to do other than put the images where they 
are inserted. HTML has no concept of a "page", so the placement options 
make no sense.



5. Captions followed the images as regular text.


Similar to the footnote problem, I think. Probably we should switch to 
using the new  tag and the associated  tag. Can you 
also file a bug about that?


6. Formatting of the "paragraph" environment was lost (I guess it's 
too deeply nested to have a corresponding h level?)


I forgot to include a tag for those. I've just fixed that for the next 
release. See

http://git.lyx.org/?p=lyx.git;a=commit;h=c6a08bc4421c960dc8148a95eb68ba90c2f95ff5
for the commit.

Sorry to ask for so much bug-filing. With 2.1 on the horizon, I can't do 
very much right now, as Vincent has trunk pretty locked.


Richard

Re: Lyx2doc: was Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Richard Heck]

On 06/11/2013 02:03 PM, Steve Litt wrote:

On Tue, 11 Jun 2013 10:32:12 -0400
Richard Heck  wrote:


On 06/10/2013 06:05 PM, Steve Litt wrote:

These days, it could be used as a front end to anything with the
proper styles defined, and the proper converter. So the same LyX
file could be used to output LaTeX, MSWord doc, XHTML, HTML, simple
HTML, or who knows what else.

To more easily accommodate this, it seems to me like layout files
should be split into an input side and an output side, with the
output side capable of multiple output formats. So the input side
might look something like this:

CharStyle MyEmph
Font
Shape Italic
EndFont

if outputtype == latex
 outputName latexlayout.layout/myemphL
 outputType Command
elsif outputtype == simplehtml
 outputName simphtmllayout.layout/myemphH
 outputType InlineTag
else outputtype == msword
 outputName winwordlayout.layout/myemphW
 outputType CharacterStyle
End

Environments would be similar.

Ideally it would be designed so that it doesn't syntax check inside
the output type's it's not. That way you can develop one output
type at a time without getting errors from the ones you haven't
developed yet.

This can already be done, more or less. That is, I can't imagine
anything you'd want to do, as far as XHTML export goes, that isn't
provided for in the layout files.

Indeed, I am sufficiently confident about this that I'd be surprised
if it were not possible to build the sort of simple HTML export you
want simply by writing a new layout file.

Thanks Richard,

When I tried to do this with my layout file, it failed miserably. Try
as I might, I couldn't get Standard to map to , nor could I get
Section to map to , etc.


If you want to send me your layout file, I will get it working.

Richard

Re: the dreaded docx export - WAS: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Ray Rashif]

On 11 June 2013 14:15, Rainer M Krug  wrote:

> These are just ideas from my side, but to try to incorporate pandoc
> into LyX in the same way as LaTeX is Incorporated, would make LyX even
> more powerful then it is already now.
>

I agree. In fact, I think this affects me more as an editor, where I have
to collaborate with clients often with a format they're comfortable with.
Recently I've been using pandoc markdown to write stuff and then outputting
to Word, but the back and forth is really becoming annoying as the other
way around is not a painless route.

For a start, both RTF and DOC formats have some inherent issues. I took
some time to briefly benchmark this and came to the conclusion that they're
not really worth the effort. Try converting a simple RTF or DOC file with
one section and some basic formatting (bold, italic). Abiword, OpenOffice,
Ted -- all had problems. However, DOCX is a different story.

I believe that if we define the simplest use case we are satisfied with we
can come up with a good solution for DOCX, which is a (slightly) documented
format (at least, better than RTF or DOC). Rob Oakes did some work on DOC
[1] but it still involves a number of loops and caveats. You can also find
some programmatic examples for writing DOCX on the web [2] and an HTML
converter. [3]

I wanted to survey the LyX and LaTeX community for some opinions on this,
perhaps to get an idea as to the demand for some research into this area.
The project would do some empirical comparisons of the workarounds and
propose at most two or three solutions that work (integration with Pandoc,
or converintg directly to a simpler and well-supported language).

The emphasis would be on retaining as much semantic meaning as possible,
across different levels of complexity, starting from the very basic. I am
not aware of any similar academic or non-academic effort, but this could
also be a long blog post.


[1] http://blog.oak-tree.us/index.php/2010/05/14/msword-lyx-import
[2] http://www.jackreichert.com/2012/11/09/how-to-convert-docx-to-html/
[3] http://www.textfixer.com/html/convert-word-to-html.php


--
GPG/PGP ID: C0711BF1

Re: beamer documentation

[Jürgen Spitzmüller]

2013/6/11 Csikos Bela

> Where could I find beamer documentation on how to customize or adjust a
> template according to my liking (in the document's preamble)? The user
> guide is quite long still superficial regarding this. For example I would
> like to change the sizes and positioning of the headline and footline,
> changing the navigation icons, etc.
>

I suppose the best source is the beamer manual. You can also ask specific
questions here, there are quite some beamer users around.

Jürgen

Re: the dreaded docx export - WAS: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[stefano franchi]

On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 2:09 PM, Ray Rashif  wrote:

> On 11 June 2013 14:15, Rainer M Krug  wrote:
>
> I wanted to survey the LyX and LaTeX community for some opinions on this,
> perhaps to get an idea as to the demand for some research into this area.
> The project would do some empirical comparisons of the workarounds and
> propose at most two or three solutions that work (integration with Pandoc,
> or converintg directly to a simpler and well-supported language).
>
> The emphasis would be on retaining as much semantic meaning as possible,
> across different levels of complexity, starting from the very basic. I am
> not aware of any similar academic or non-academic effort, but this could
> also be a long blog post.
>
>

HI Ray,

I am not sure about what you're asking, exactly? Perhaps a survey of the
different lyx-doc(x) use cases that current lyx users care most about? Or
rather a definition of the simplest yet still useful use case we can
imagine? If the former, I would suggest starting a page on our wiki,
perhaps as a possible GSoC 2014 project, as a repository of useful cases
people could refer to. If the latter...well I'd need further info because
I'm not really sure what you're aiming for.

Cheers,

Stefano
-- 
__
Stefano Franchi
Associate Research Professor
Department of Hispanic StudiesPh:   +1 (979) 845-2125
Texas A University  Fax:  +1 (979) 845-6421
College Station, Texas, USA

stef...@tamu.edu
http://stefano.cleinias.org

Re: Place float:figure in this subparagraph

[Paul Rubin]

Short of manually inserting page breaks (and adjusting them whenever the
text changes), I do not think it is possible to do what you want and be
certain that you get the desired result. You can try using \FloatBarrier
from the placeins package
(http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/LaTeX/Floats,_Figures_and_Captions#Keeping_floats_in_their_place).
I have no experience with it, but I suspect that it will disrupt the
formatting of the page in a way similar to your using manually placed page
breaks.

Paul

Re: the dreaded docx export - WAS: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Ray Rashif]

On 12 June 2013 03:57, stefano franchi  wrote:

>
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 2:09 PM, Ray Rashif wrote:
>
>> On 11 June 2013 14:15, Rainer M Krug  wrote:
>>
>> I wanted to survey the LyX and LaTeX community for some opinions on this,
>> perhaps to get an idea as to the demand for some research into this area.
>> The project would do some empirical comparisons of the workarounds and
>> propose at most two or three solutions that work (integration with Pandoc,
>> or converintg directly to a simpler and well-supported language).
>>
>> The emphasis would be on retaining as much semantic meaning as possible,
>> across different levels of complexity, starting from the very basic. I am
>> not aware of any similar academic or non-academic effort, but this could
>> also be a long blog post.
>>
>>
>
> HI Ray,
>
> I am not sure about what you're asking, exactly? Perhaps a survey of the
> different lyx-doc(x) use cases that current lyx users care most about? Or
> rather a definition of the simplest yet still useful use case we can
> imagine? If the former, I would suggest starting a page on our wiki,
> perhaps as a possible GSoC 2014 project, as a repository of useful cases
> people could refer to. If the latter...well I'd need further info because
> I'm not really sure what you're aiming for.
>

Hey Stefano

Sorry for the lack of clarity there -- probably a mistake of dumping one or
two things I had on my mind without context. I was referring to
cross-platform document interoperability for collaborative writing and
editing, not really LyX-specific but very much related, and not really a
new issue.

If there are people indeed affected by this, and they would like some
documentation, then I'd like to put in some time to review current issues
and strategies, and produce working code to convert a non-friendly format
into a pluggable one (into LyX, LaTeX, Pandoc) for _only_ the use cases
that matter most (according to the target audience; writers, editors,
fiction or non-fiction).

Often times I have found myself dealing with only a subset of formatting
tools during the first phase of a write-up, in most cases a draft, and I
would often make the mistake of thinking they're simple enough to not break
collaboration. I would assume many of our workflows start with sections,
followed by emphasis (boldface and italics), then simple lists (itemized
and enumerated), footnotes, and finally citations.

Personally I have never needed anything more complex like cross-references,
tables and images -- I always schedule them for later phases because they
interrupt the workflow, although I do make space for them informally (using
characters I can easily search for). At the end of the day, what I have to
deal with is a DOC or DOCX file with semantic comments (that are not
understood by most other tools), no matter where or how I start.

== TL;DR ==
What I'd like is to solve for the missing input formats in e.g. Pandoc. It
does not support RTF, DOC, or DOCX, but supports HTML, which Word does not
output cleanly. Either way, it's something I have had in my mind for some
time, but too busy to investigate or ask around methodically. Getting an
idea of the demand for a solution in this case could force me to invest the
time.

Inspiration: http://gio.act.gov.au/2013/03/13/document-conversion-markdown/


--
GPG/PGP ID: C0711BF1

Re: Lyx at Linuxfest Northwest 2013

[Jayneil Dalal]

Liviu Andronic  gmail.com> writes:

> 
> Hello,
> 
> On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 7:13 AM, Jayneil Dalal  
gmail.com> wrote:
> > http://linuxfestnorthwest.org/content/crash-course-lyx-gui-based-
> > alternative-latex
> >
> When introducing LyX to people I myself prefer launching a full-blown
> "your first document in LyX" session, based on LyX_Essentials.pdf (
> https://sites.google.com/site/tsewiki/resources/latex ). So I just
> start showing off how easy it is to create a good looking document in
> LyX, and at the same time explain the differences between LyX and MS
> Word. This is more useful for a workshop than a presentation, but
> gives the audience a very clear idea of it actually is.
> 
> > I have also started a project on sourceforge called Lyx Live DVD:
> >
> > https://sourceforge.net/projects/lyxlivedvd/
> >
> > It is basically Ubuntu 12.04.2 LTS with Lyx, texlive-full package pre-
> > installed and configured. So, you can have Lyx wherever you go.
> >
> This is a very good initiative. I remember once having big issues
> finding a LiveCD with LyX. Several points:
> - Wouldn't it be better to use a versioning scheme in the name of the
> file ? lyx-12.04.2.iso or similar would be more useful.
> - Is the LiveCD using the PPA (
> https://launchpad.net/~lyx-devel/+archive/release )? Could it be
> configured to use that?
> - And could/should the LiveCD also come pre-configured for the daily
> PPA ( https://launchpad.net/~lyx-devel/+archive/daily )?
> 
> Regards,
> Liviu
> 
> 

Liviu,

Hi! Thanks for replying. 

1. The presentation slides were made so that when people view the talk 
online, they can get started. I started my talk and went over the slides in 
15 minutes and the remaining hour was spent on live demos where I showed 
attendees how to create articles, reports, IEEE paper, resume, presentation 
etc as well as explained differences between MS Word and Lyx.

2. The Lyx Live DVD currently does not use the ppa. Give me some time and I 
will make another image which is configured to use the ppa. Thanks for 
making this wonderful suggestion!

3. Regarding the version name, I thought "lyx live dvd" just sounded plain 
and simple and since 12.04.2 is LTS, I am probably not going to change that 
version. 

4. Regarding including the daily ppa, I can spin another image and put in a 
separate project like "lyx live dvd- developer edition" as most people/users 
would want the stable releases. So, it would be better to have two different 
projects for it.

Feel free to give your thoughts/feedback.

Best,

Jayneil.

Re: Simple HTML converter/export

[Bob Alvarez]

On 6/11/13 11:20 AM, Richard Heck wrote:

What sort of thing would you like to be able to do?
I am interested in adding a collapsible text block when I export to an 
HTML page. As an example, I want to have a proof following the statement 
of a mathematical theorem. I would like to put a + sign under the 
theorem so the user can click on it and the proof displays. If the 
reader clicks the + sign again, the proof collapses and disappears.


I have found a javascript example about how to do this at:

http://javascriptsource.com/miscellaneous/collapsible-text.html

Also, it would be good if when I export to pdf none of the javascript stuff 
shows and the proof text is included in the document.


The ordinary article.layout file contains lots of HTML-specific
material. So you could also start by looking at it.

I will study the file.


Bob

Re: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Stephen George]

On 12/06/2013 1:02 AM, Dr Eberhard Lisse wrote:

of course he's right, but then he can google what DILLIGAF stands
for :-)-O

No he can't, with comments like
/"open source programs have great appeal for people who want to tinker 
with computers but almost none for those who actually want to do 
something."/


He would not be able to use Google as it is running open source 
programs, and he wouldn't use it as it's against his principles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_platform
/"//Servers are //commodity-class 
x86 
PCs 
//running customized 
versions of //Linux //."/


Further to that, finding a book with good amazon ranking would also be 
useless, as Amazon is also running open source, so he also would NOT use 
that service.

http://news.cnet.com/2100-1001-275155.html

In fact he probably doesn't do much web surfing with the open source 
Apache dominating the HTTP internet server market

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_HTTP_Server
/"Since April 1996 Apache has been the most popular HTTP server software 
in use. As of December 2012 Apache was estimated to serve 63.7% of all 
active //websites //and 58.49% of 
the top servers across all domains"//

/
There is a big chance the writers forum were he made those comments is 
also powered by an open source program.


Sorry for the outburst, I just can't believe how polarised some people 
are against open source programs.
Personally I dont think you should feed him with fuel, just let it drop 
and continue on with your own life using the programs you enjoy, I dont 
think you have anything to prove. (but I do understand the sense of 
outrage after hearing the comments)


Steve