Re: Google Analytics (or other)

[John Coppens]

On Tue, 20 Jun 2017 21:23:09 +0200
Christian Ridderström  wrote:

> Personally I'd even prefer (regular) LyX versions to not even include code
> for "capturing and uploading telemetry".

+1

Though I really don't do any 'sensitive work', I shudder at the thought
of having Google (or anyone else) poking his/hers nose into my daily
activities. No amount of promises about privacy protection will ever
convince me otherwise.

At the very least, it should be a compile option, and even then opt-in
only. And even then, a continuous marker on-screen. Call me paranoid.

John

Re: Google Analytics (or other)

[John Coppens]

On Tue, 6 Jun 2017 13:10:17 + (UTC)
Guenter Milde  wrote:

+1

Re: Google Analytics (or other)

[Christian Ridderström]

On 19 June 2017 at 13:23, Helge Hafting  wrote:

> Definitely an opt-in.  We must be able to trust that we can use LyX for
> confidential stuff.
>

Personally I'd even prefer (regular) LyX versions to not even include code
for "capturing and uploading telemetry".
>From a practical point of view, I also doubt we'd anyway have the resources
to properly manage and analyse such statistics.

Regards,
/Christian


> Also, I do not want LyX to hang/delay because "some networking problem"
> interferes with such communications. I have had enough such problems when
> starting LyX, and LyX decides to open (or perhaps just stat() ) the
> "Recent" files - but some of them are on a broken file server that cause
> 2min TCP timeouts.
>

Excellent points by Helge, although off topic. I've suffered from this on
Windows with other software.

Re: Google Analytics (or other)

[Trevor Jenkins]

On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 12:55 PM, Dr Eberhard W Lisse  wrote:
> On 20/06/2017 11:54, Trevor Jenkins wrote:
> > Link to Google Analytics and this user will delete all traces of LyX
> f> rom their systems never to re-install.

No, but I would then probably put you into my spam filter.
>

Better in your spam filter than on Google's spamming list.

Regards, Trevor.

<>< Re: deemed!

Re: Google Analytics (or other)

[Walter van Holst]

On 2017-06-20 12:54, Trevor Jenkins wrote:

Link to Google Analytics and this user will delete all traces of LyX
from their systems never to re-install.


Same here. Massive violation of user trust. Just put up a Piwik install 
on a VPS someplace and you can achieve the same.


Besides, you'll be in violation of EU legislation.

Regards,

 Walter

Re: Google Analytics (or other)

[Dr Eberhard W Lisse]

No, but I would then probably put you into my spam filter.

el

On 20/06/2017 11:54, Trevor Jenkins wrote:
> Link to Google Analytics and this user will delete all traces of LyX
> from their systems never to re-install.
> 
[...]
-- 
Dr. Eberhard W. Lisse  \/ Obstetrician & Gynaecologist (Saar)
e...@lisse.na/ * |   Telephone: +264 81 124 6733 (cell)
PO Box 8421 \ /
Bachbrecht, Namibia ;/

Re: Google Analytics (or other)

[Trevor Jenkins]

Link to Google Analytics and this user will delete all traces of LyX from
their systems never to re-install.

On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 11:36 AM, Dr Eberhard Lisse  wrote:

> I think this would be madness.
>
> el
>
> On 03/06/2017 23:06, Cris Fuhrman wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Jun 3, 2017 15:50, "Scott Kostyshak"  > > wrote:
> >
> > Thanks for this idea, Cris. Would this be only to see how many people
> > are using LyX or for something in addition to that? Every time I
> think
> > about something like that, I challenge myself and ask: "Why do I
> want to
> > know how many people use LyX?" and my answer is always just that I
> would
> > be curious. Since I don't think it would lead to any improvement in
> LyX,
> > my train of thought stops there.
> >
> >
> > GA (as far as I understand it) can track usage within any app. For
> > example, each time a user selects New, the app can "click" a link via GA
> > that signifies New. It's up to the developer to determine granularity of
> > usage stats. In theory you could collect preference data at every
> > closing/applying of the preference dialogue (it could be arguments to a
> > tracking URL). I'm not an expert in how best to do it, but it's "usage
> > data" that many apps already collect. GA is but a means to that end.
> > There are other options: https://stackoverflow.com/q/1554062/1168342
> >
>
>
>


-- 
Regards, Trevor.

<>< Re: deemed!

Re: Google Analytics (or other)

[Dr Eberhard Lisse]

I think this would be madness.

el

On 03/06/2017 23:06, Cris Fuhrman wrote:
> 
> 
> On Jun 3, 2017 15:50, "Scott Kostyshak"  > wrote:
> 
> Thanks for this idea, Cris. Would this be only to see how many people
> are using LyX or for something in addition to that? Every time I think
> about something like that, I challenge myself and ask: "Why do I want to
> know how many people use LyX?" and my answer is always just that I would
> be curious. Since I don't think it would lead to any improvement in LyX,
> my train of thought stops there.
> 
> 
> GA (as far as I understand it) can track usage within any app. For
> example, each time a user selects New, the app can "click" a link via GA
> that signifies New. It's up to the developer to determine granularity of
> usage stats. In theory you could collect preference data at every
> closing/applying of the preference dialogue (it could be arguments to a
> tracking URL). I'm not an expert in how best to do it, but it's "usage
> data" that many apps already collect. GA is but a means to that end.
> There are other options: https://stackoverflow.com/q/1554062/1168342
> 

Re: Google Analytics (or other)

[Helge Hafting]

Den 06. juni 2017 15:10, skrev Guenter Milde:

On 2017-06-04, Cris Fuhrman wrote:


I totally agree. I mentioned this point in my first post in the other
thread about the preferences file. Many applications have a preference to
turn on or off usage data collection (it's often phrased "help improve this
application by contributing anonymous usage data").

Actually, if ever done by LyX, I strongly want this to be opt-in, not a
default.

Günter

Definitely an opt-in.  We must be able to trust that we can use LyX for 
confidential stuff.


Also, I do not want LyX to hang/delay because "some networking problem" 
interferes with such communications. I have had enough such problems 
when starting LyX, and LyX decides to open (or perhaps just stat() ) the 
"Recent" files - but some of them are on a broken file server that cause 
2min TCP timeouts. So I were sometimes forced to wait (or at least do 
some forced umounts) before I could use even a local file, because LyX 
unnecessarily waited on a "recent file". :-/It has been a while 
since I saw that problem - I believe they upgraded our troubled server. 
One can hope LyX has gotten better too.


Programmers should always bear in mind that anything that uses the 
network - or even the file system (which may be partially networked) - 
may fail or come with a rather long delay. Users are not "always 
online", and remote servers can be badly mismanaged. So don't touch the 
network or the file system unless it is necessary.  In the case of 
"recent files", no fs access is needed until the user try to open one of 
them. Accessing those files earlier may have been a good idea, as in 
"lets not display filenames that aren't actually there", but then it 
turns out that checking can be too expensive. When it comes to google 
analytics - some people try to firewall it because they don't want their 
web usage tracked so much.


Helge Hafting

Re: Google Analytics (or other)

[Charlie]

On Tue, 6 Jun 2017 13:10:17 + (UTC)
Guenter Milde  wrote:

> On 2017-06-04, Cris Fuhrman wrote:
> 
> > [-- Type: text/plain, Encoding:  --]  
> 
> > On Jun 3, 2017 19:23, "Joel Kulesza"  wrote:  
> 
> > > However, I would want to see an option in the installation
> > > process to disable "anonymous usage statistics" from being
> > > collected.  
> 
> > I totally agree. I mentioned this point in my first post in the
> > other thread about the preferences file. Many applications have a
> > preference to turn on or off usage data collection (it's often
> > phrased "help improve this application by contributing anonymous
> > usage data").  
> 
> Actually, if ever done by LyX, I strongly want this to be opt-in, not
> a default.
> 
> Günter
> 

+1

-- 
Registered Linux User:- 329524
***

He who thinks himself wise, O heavens! is a great fool.
---Voltaire

***

Debian GNU/Linux - Magic indeed.

-

Re: Google Analytics (or other)

[Guenter Milde]

On 2017-06-04, Cris Fuhrman wrote:

> [-- Type: text/plain, Encoding:  --]

> On Jun 3, 2017 19:23, "Joel Kulesza"  wrote:

> > However, I would want to see an option in the installation process to
> > disable "anonymous usage statistics" from being collected.

> I totally agree. I mentioned this point in my first post in the other
> thread about the preferences file. Many applications have a preference to
> turn on or off usage data collection (it's often phrased "help improve this
> application by contributing anonymous usage data").

Actually, if ever done by LyX, I strongly want this to be opt-in, not a
default.

Günter

Re: Google Analytics (or other)

[Cris Fuhrman]

On Jun 3, 2017 19:23, "Joel Kulesza"  wrote:

However, I would want to see an option in the installation process to
disable "anonymous usage statistics" from being collected.


I totally agree. I mentioned this point in my first post in the other
thread about the preferences file. Many applications have a preference to
turn on or off usage data collection (it's often phrased "help improve this
application by contributing anonymous usage data").

Re: Google Analytics (or other)

[Joel Kulesza]

On Sat, Jun 3, 2017 at 4:06 PM, Cris Fuhrman  wrote:

> On Jun 3, 2017 15:50, "Scott Kostyshak"  wrote:
>
> Thanks for this idea, Cris. Would this be only to see how many people
> are using LyX or for something in addition to that? Every time I think
> about something like that, I challenge myself and ask: "Why do I want to
> know how many people use LyX?" and my answer is always just that I would
> be curious. Since I don't think it would lead to any improvement in LyX,
> my train of thought stops there.
>
>
> GA (as far as I understand it) can track usage within any app. For
> example, each time a user selects New, the app can "click" a link via GA
> that signifies New. It's up to the developer to determine granularity of
> usage stats. In theory you could collect preference data at every
> closing/applying of the preference dialogue (it could be arguments to a
> tracking URL). I'm not an expert in how best to do it, but it's "usage
> data" that many apps already collect. GA is but a means to that end. There
> are other options: https://stackoverflow.com/q/1554062/1168342
>

This would be very interesting to add.  The information collected could be
helpful to determine priorities from a development side and would certainly
satisfy *my* curiosity.  However, I would want to see an option in the
installation process to disable "anonymous usage statistics" from being
collected.  At work, I can imagine some folks getting upset by an
application phoning home, even anonymously.

Re: Google Analytics (or other)

[Scott Kostyshak]

On Sat, Jun 03, 2017 at 06:06:53PM -0400, Cris Fuhrman wrote:
> On Jun 3, 2017 15:50, "Scott Kostyshak"  wrote:
> 
>> Thanks for this idea, Cris. Would this be only to see how many people
>> are using LyX or for something in addition to that? Every time I think
>> about something like that, I challenge myself and ask: "Why do I want to
>> know how many people use LyX?" and my answer is always just that I would
>> be curious. Since I don't think it would lead to any improvement in LyX,
>> my train of thought stops there.
> 
> 
> GA (as far as I understand it) can track usage within any app. For example,
> each time a user selects New, the app can "click" a link via GA that
> signifies New. It's up to the developer to determine granularity of usage
> stats. In theory you could collect preference data at every
> closing/applying of the preference dialogue (it could be arguments to a
> tracking URL). I'm not an expert in how best to do it, but it's "usage
> data" that many apps already collect. GA is but a means to that end. There
> are other options: https://stackoverflow.com/q/1554062/1168342

Ah thanks for clarifying this to me. That is indeed pretty powerful.

Scott


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