Re: Translations issues in French

[Jean-Pierre Chrétien]

Jean-Pierre Chrétien jeanpierre.chretien at free.fr writes:

 I got no answers there and maybe there are some French speaking
 users subscribed 
 to lyx-users and not to lyx-fr.

Thank you all for your answers.

-- 
Regards
Jean-Pierre

Re: Translations issues in French

[Jean-Pierre Chrétien]

Jean-Pierre Chrétien jeanpierre.chretien at free.fr writes:

 I got no answers there and maybe there are some French speaking
 users subscribed 
 to lyx-users and not to lyx-fr.

Thank you all for your answers.

-- 
Regards
Jean-Pierre

Re: Translations issues in French

[Jean-Pierre Chrétien]

Jean-Pierre Chrétien  free.fr> writes:

> I got no answers there and maybe there are some French speaking
> users subscribed 
> to lyx-users and not to lyx-fr.

Thank you all for your answers.

-- 
Regards
Jean-Pierre

Translations issues in French

[Jean-Pierre Chrétien]

Hello,

This post is intended for  French-speaking users of the users list who are not 
subscribed to the lyx-fr list.


Can you take a look at message

http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-fr@lists.lyx.org/msg01845.html

and the corresponding thread, especially messages

http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-fr@lists.lyx.org/msg01848.html
http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-fr@lists.lyx.org/msg01849.html

I got no answers there and maybe there are some French speaking users subscribed 
to lyx-users and not to lyx-fr.


This said, the questions in the two last messages  are less important since the 
developers abandoned the export in LaTeX of these strings which are mostly used 
in English speaking documents (achemso or agu papers). But the need for the 
interface itself remains.


The first question about the translation of Aknowledgement in Theorems AMS is 
still important for the 2.0 release.


--
Jean-Pierre
PS please cc the answer to my address, I'm not subscribed to lyx-users

Re: Translations issues in French

[Liviu Andronic]

Hello


2011/4/15 Jean-Pierre Chrétien jeanpierre.chret...@free.fr:
 This post is intended for  French-speaking users of the users list who are
 not subscribed to the lyx-fr list.

I'm not properly French, but I could try to take a cut at this.


 Can you take a look at message

 http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-fr@lists.lyx.org/msg01845.html

From my understanding, 'acknowledgement' and 'remerciement' are not
perfect equivalents. You can easily see the first term used in
singular ('acknowledgement of success or of help') and in plural forms
('acknowledgements for the contribution to this paper'). (I must admit
that I'm not sure in what sense the term is used in the 'thms' class.)

As for the French term, I have a hard time finding a use case in
singular form. Even if only one person contributed, she would still
get 'des remerciements'. 'Recevoir un remerciement' just doesn't sound
French (to my non-French ear). 'Remerciements', on the other hand,
seems natural. In any case, try searching for this term on TLF [1]; it
includes several examples of both singular and plural forms.

[1] http://atilf.atilf.fr/tlf.htm


Regards
Liviu

Re: Translations issues in French

[Ignacio García]

2011/4/15 Jean-Pierre Chrétien jeanpierre.chret...@free.fr:
 This post is intended for  French-speaking users of the users list who are
 not subscribed to the lyx-fr list.
... 
 Planotable PlancheTableau - Tableau en planche ?

I'm not French, but the Spanish translator.
Searching for 'planotable' translation into Spanish I stumbled with:

AGUTEX also provides an additional table-making
environment,
alled planotable, for tables that may
be c
ontinued over several pages.
(http://www.mps.mpg.de/software/latex/localtex/doc/aguplus.ps page-6)

Then, it seems to be a specific 'LongTable' for AGU papers

I hope this is a little help

Ignacio García

Re: Translations issues in French

[David L. Johnson]

On 04/15/11 06:04, Liviu Andronic wrote:

Hello


2011/4/15 Jean-Pierre Chrétienjeanpierre.chret...@free.fr:

This post is intended for  French-speaking users of the users list who are
not subscribed to the lyx-fr list.



From my understanding, 'acknowledgement' and 'remerciement' are not

perfect equivalents. You can easily see the first term used in
singular ('acknowledgement of success or of help') and in plural forms
('acknowledgements for the contribution to this paper'). (I must admit
that I'm not sure in what sense the term is used in the 'thms' class.)


In the Theorems class, Acknowledgment(s) is/are used primarily for 
thanks to others who contributed to the work, or perhaps to a reviewer 
who helped improve an argument.  In that sense, Remerciements seems to 
be an appropriate translation.  But you also see Thanks as a label for 
such acknowledgments in English.  As I recall, I came up with these 
theorem styles, way back in the day, using AMS style recommendations. 
Unfortunately, those did not come with translations.  But given the AMS 
dominance in mathematical writing, maybe now there is a French version 
of those recommendations.


As for the French term, I have a hard time finding a use case in
singular form. Even if only one person contributed, she would still
get 'des remerciements'.


As in English, even one person would get Thanks, which is in a sense 
plural (we often say many thanks to so-and-so).  But, you would 
acknowledge one person, or several.


--

David L. Johnson

It is probable that television drama of high caliber and produced by
first-rate artists will materially raise the level of dramatic taste
in the nation.
-- David Sarnoff, 1939

Re: Translations issues in French

[Daniel CLEMENT]

Hello,

Liviu Andronic wrote:
 Hello
 
 
 [...]
 From my understanding, 'acknowledgement' and 'remerciement' are not
 perfect equivalents. [...]

Actually, given the variety of meanings acknowledgment has, I doubt
any single French word can be a perfect translation in all cases.

But I agree with David L. Johnson's idea, that in the context of book
writing, the remerciement(s) meaning is almost certain to be the
proper one.

 As for the French term, I have a hard time finding a use case in
 singular form. Even if only one person contributed, she would still
 get 'des remerciements'. 'Recevoir un remerciement' just doesn't sound
 French (to my non-French ear). 'Remerciements', on the other hand,
 seems natural. 

I couldn't have said it better. However, out of curiosity, I tried and
opened some (English) books from m y bookshelves. I noticed two things:

1) You couldn't believe how rare acknowledgments have become;
2) However, every one I found was in plural form also in English.

 In any case, try searching for this term on TLF [1]; it
 includes several examples of both singular and plural forms.
 
 [1] http://atilf.atilf.fr/tlf.htm
 

I note that the most relevant meaning on this page (item A3) mentions
generally plural.

 
 Regards
 Liviu
 
Regards,
-- 
Daniel CLEMENT

Translations issues in French

[Jean-Pierre Chrétien]

Hello,

This post is intended for  French-speaking users of the users list who are not 
subscribed to the lyx-fr list.


Can you take a look at message

http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-fr@lists.lyx.org/msg01845.html

and the corresponding thread, especially messages

http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-fr@lists.lyx.org/msg01848.html
http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-fr@lists.lyx.org/msg01849.html

I got no answers there and maybe there are some French speaking users subscribed 
to lyx-users and not to lyx-fr.


This said, the questions in the two last messages  are less important since the 
developers abandoned the export in LaTeX of these strings which are mostly used 
in English speaking documents (achemso or agu papers). But the need for the 
interface itself remains.


The first question about the translation of Aknowledgement in Theorems AMS is 
still important for the 2.0 release.


--
Jean-Pierre
PS please cc the answer to my address, I'm not subscribed to lyx-users

Re: Translations issues in French

[Liviu Andronic]

Hello


2011/4/15 Jean-Pierre Chrétien jeanpierre.chret...@free.fr:
 This post is intended for  French-speaking users of the users list who are
 not subscribed to the lyx-fr list.

I'm not properly French, but I could try to take a cut at this.


 Can you take a look at message

 http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-fr@lists.lyx.org/msg01845.html

From my understanding, 'acknowledgement' and 'remerciement' are not
perfect equivalents. You can easily see the first term used in
singular ('acknowledgement of success or of help') and in plural forms
('acknowledgements for the contribution to this paper'). (I must admit
that I'm not sure in what sense the term is used in the 'thms' class.)

As for the French term, I have a hard time finding a use case in
singular form. Even if only one person contributed, she would still
get 'des remerciements'. 'Recevoir un remerciement' just doesn't sound
French (to my non-French ear). 'Remerciements', on the other hand,
seems natural. In any case, try searching for this term on TLF [1]; it
includes several examples of both singular and plural forms.

[1] http://atilf.atilf.fr/tlf.htm


Regards
Liviu

Re: Translations issues in French

[Ignacio García]

2011/4/15 Jean-Pierre Chrétien jeanpierre.chret...@free.fr:
 This post is intended for  French-speaking users of the users list who are
 not subscribed to the lyx-fr list.
... 
 Planotable PlancheTableau - Tableau en planche ?

I'm not French, but the Spanish translator.
Searching for 'planotable' translation into Spanish I stumbled with:

AGUTEX also provides an additional table-making
environment,
alled planotable, for tables that may
be c
ontinued over several pages.
(http://www.mps.mpg.de/software/latex/localtex/doc/aguplus.ps page-6)

Then, it seems to be a specific 'LongTable' for AGU papers

I hope this is a little help

Ignacio García

Re: Translations issues in French

[David L. Johnson]

On 04/15/11 06:04, Liviu Andronic wrote:

Hello


2011/4/15 Jean-Pierre Chrétienjeanpierre.chret...@free.fr:

This post is intended for  French-speaking users of the users list who are
not subscribed to the lyx-fr list.



From my understanding, 'acknowledgement' and 'remerciement' are not

perfect equivalents. You can easily see the first term used in
singular ('acknowledgement of success or of help') and in plural forms
('acknowledgements for the contribution to this paper'). (I must admit
that I'm not sure in what sense the term is used in the 'thms' class.)


In the Theorems class, Acknowledgment(s) is/are used primarily for 
thanks to others who contributed to the work, or perhaps to a reviewer 
who helped improve an argument.  In that sense, Remerciements seems to 
be an appropriate translation.  But you also see Thanks as a label for 
such acknowledgments in English.  As I recall, I came up with these 
theorem styles, way back in the day, using AMS style recommendations. 
Unfortunately, those did not come with translations.  But given the AMS 
dominance in mathematical writing, maybe now there is a French version 
of those recommendations.


As for the French term, I have a hard time finding a use case in
singular form. Even if only one person contributed, she would still
get 'des remerciements'.


As in English, even one person would get Thanks, which is in a sense 
plural (we often say many thanks to so-and-so).  But, you would 
acknowledge one person, or several.


--

David L. Johnson

It is probable that television drama of high caliber and produced by
first-rate artists will materially raise the level of dramatic taste
in the nation.
-- David Sarnoff, 1939

Re: Translations issues in French

[Daniel CLEMENT]

Hello,

Liviu Andronic wrote:
 Hello
 
 
 [...]
 From my understanding, 'acknowledgement' and 'remerciement' are not
 perfect equivalents. [...]

Actually, given the variety of meanings acknowledgment has, I doubt
any single French word can be a perfect translation in all cases.

But I agree with David L. Johnson's idea, that in the context of book
writing, the remerciement(s) meaning is almost certain to be the
proper one.

 As for the French term, I have a hard time finding a use case in
 singular form. Even if only one person contributed, she would still
 get 'des remerciements'. 'Recevoir un remerciement' just doesn't sound
 French (to my non-French ear). 'Remerciements', on the other hand,
 seems natural. 

I couldn't have said it better. However, out of curiosity, I tried and
opened some (English) books from m y bookshelves. I noticed two things:

1) You couldn't believe how rare acknowledgments have become;
2) However, every one I found was in plural form also in English.

 In any case, try searching for this term on TLF [1]; it
 includes several examples of both singular and plural forms.
 
 [1] http://atilf.atilf.fr/tlf.htm
 

I note that the most relevant meaning on this page (item A3) mentions
generally plural.

 
 Regards
 Liviu
 
Regards,
-- 
Daniel CLEMENT

Translations issues in French

[Jean-Pierre Chrétien]

Hello,

This post is intended for  French-speaking users of the users list who are not 
subscribed to the lyx-fr list.


Can you take a look at message

http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-fr@lists.lyx.org/msg01845.html

and the corresponding thread, especially messages

http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-fr@lists.lyx.org/msg01848.html
http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-fr@lists.lyx.org/msg01849.html

I got no answers there and maybe there are some French speaking users subscribed 
to lyx-users and not to lyx-fr.


This said, the questions in the two last messages  are less important since the 
developers abandoned the export in LaTeX of these strings which are mostly used 
in English speaking documents (achemso or agu papers). But the need for the 
interface itself remains.


The first question about the translation of Aknowledgement in Theorems AMS is 
still important for the 2.0 release.


--
Jean-Pierre
PS please cc the answer to my address, I'm not subscribed to lyx-users

Re: Translations issues in French

[Liviu Andronic]

Hello


2011/4/15 Jean-Pierre Chrétien :
> This post is intended for  French-speaking users of the users list who are
> not subscribed to the lyx-fr list.
>
I'm not properly French, but I could try to take a cut at this.


> Can you take a look at message
>
> http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-fr@lists.lyx.org/msg01845.html
>
>From my understanding, 'acknowledgement' and 'remerciement' are not
perfect equivalents. You can easily see the first term used in
singular ('acknowledgement of success or of help') and in plural forms
('acknowledgements for the contribution to this paper'). (I must admit
that I'm not sure in what sense the term is used in the 'thms' class.)

As for the French term, I have a hard time finding a use case in
singular form. Even if only one person contributed, she would still
get 'des remerciements'. 'Recevoir un remerciement' just doesn't sound
French (to my non-French ear). 'Remerciements', on the other hand,
seems natural. In any case, try searching for this term on TLF [1]; it
includes several examples of both singular and plural forms.

[1] http://atilf.atilf.fr/tlf.htm


Regards
Liviu

Re: Translations issues in French

[Ignacio García]

2011/4/15 Jean-Pierre Chrétien :
> This post is intended for  French-speaking users of the users list who are
> not subscribed to the lyx-fr list.
... 
> "Planotable" "PlancheTableau" -> "Tableau en planche" ?

I'm not French, but the Spanish translator.
Searching for 'planotable' translation into Spanish I stumbled with:

AGUTEX also provides an additional table-making
environment,
alled planotable, for tables that may
be c
ontinued over several pages.
(http://www.mps.mpg.de/software/latex/localtex/doc/aguplus.ps page-6)

Then, it seems to be a specific 'LongTable' for AGU papers

I hope this is a little help

Ignacio García

Re: Translations issues in French

[David L. Johnson]

On 04/15/11 06:04, Liviu Andronic wrote:

Hello


2011/4/15 Jean-Pierre Chrétien:

This post is intended for  French-speaking users of the users list who are
not subscribed to the lyx-fr list.



From my understanding, 'acknowledgement' and 'remerciement' are not

perfect equivalents. You can easily see the first term used in
singular ('acknowledgement of success or of help') and in plural forms
('acknowledgements for the contribution to this paper'). (I must admit
that I'm not sure in what sense the term is used in the 'thms' class.)


In the Theorems class, Acknowledgment(s) is/are used primarily for 
thanks to others who contributed to the work, or perhaps to a reviewer 
who helped improve an argument.  In that sense, Remerciements seems to 
be an appropriate translation.  But you also see "Thanks" as a label for 
such acknowledgments in English.  As I recall, I came up with these 
theorem styles, way back in the day, using AMS style recommendations. 
Unfortunately, those did not come with translations.  But given the AMS 
dominance in mathematical writing, maybe now there is a French version 
of those recommendations.


As for the French term, I have a hard time finding a use case in
singular form. Even if only one person contributed, she would still
get 'des remerciements'.


As in English, even one person would get "Thanks", which is in a sense 
plural (we often say "many thanks" to so-and-so).  But, you would 
acknowledge one person, or several.


--

David L. Johnson

It is probable that television drama of high caliber and produced by
first-rate artists will materially raise the level of dramatic taste
in the nation.
-- David Sarnoff, 1939

Re: Translations issues in French

[Daniel CLEMENT]

Hello,

Liviu Andronic wrote:
> Hello
> 
> 
> [...]
> From my understanding, 'acknowledgement' and 'remerciement' are not
> perfect equivalents. [...]

Actually, given the variety of meanings "acknowledgment" has, I doubt
any single French word can be a perfect translation in all cases.

But I agree with David L. Johnson's idea, that in the context of book
writing, the "remerciement(s)" meaning is almost certain to be the
proper one.

> As for the French term, I have a hard time finding a use case in
> singular form. Even if only one person contributed, she would still
> get 'des remerciements'. 'Recevoir un remerciement' just doesn't sound
> French (to my non-French ear). 'Remerciements', on the other hand,
> seems natural. 

I couldn't have said it better. However, out of curiosity, I tried and
opened some (English) books from m y bookshelves. I noticed two things:

1) You couldn't believe how rare acknowledgments have become;
2) However, every one I found was in plural form also in English.

> In any case, try searching for this term on TLF [1]; it
> includes several examples of both singular and plural forms.
> 
> [1] http://atilf.atilf.fr/tlf.htm
> 

I note that the most relevant meaning on this page (item A3) mentions
"generally plural".

> 
> Regards
> Liviu
> 
Regards,
-- 
Daniel CLEMENT