Re: Autobuilder for OS2006 wanted?
Niels Breet wrote: Hi all, With this mail, I want to ask the community if there is interest in having an autobuilder for OS2006. Although the download numbers for OS2006 aren't as high as the recent OS versions, we (maemo.org community) haven't stopped supporting the OS. 770 users might benefit from this. Are there developers out there who will use the autobuilder for OS2006, if it is available? Do you think it is worth the trouble to set it up? Will it make supporting OS2006 easier for developers? Please let me know what you think. Hi Neil. I need autobuilder for OS2006. I am going to create new versions of OMWeather for OS2006 during this year or more period. Regards, Vlad. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Navigating on OSM data on maemo
I am wondering if currently anybody is working actively on porting navigation software with offline routing to maemo with osm data. I know that somebody worked on navit somebody else on Gosmore, but I have not seen updates since a long time...is there anything else going on? Navit could be a perfect companion on Maemo. Compiles, runs and routes nicely - as long as there's no gps signal... :( Unfortunately it frequently freezes as soon as gpsd is running. Unfortunately my C knowledge is rather nonexistent so I cannot debug or improve this behaviour. There are (rather dated) packages on [1]. The author asks for patience regarding updates as he's working on some stuff. These updates are apparently a new GUI and routing in libgarmin. I am certainly interested in navigation software (thanks for pointing out gosmore, I'd missed it). The big issue at the moment is that the OSM data (which is what I'll be using at least as I don't have any Garmin maps for Navit) lack certain metadata which would be useful. The main thing here is the road speed, or some indicator of what the road speed might be (e.g. road type data - in town/country/etc.) I imagine there may be ways to get around this and still have a half decent routing system, and then implement these sorts of checks once the metadata catches up. I've not been able to try Navit (probably due to the mentioned gpsd problem) - it never wanted to do anything when I was running it. I'm more tempted to take a stab at gosmore as I assume it will be simpler code and easier to hack and modify ourselves. I should add that onion is planning to add routing abilities to his fork of maemo-mapper (see here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/User:Onion/Mapper#Todo_List) so developing a bear-bones routing system would probably benefit lots of different projects (and most of all, be interesting to do). Anyway, count me in :) Cheers, Simon ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Some autobuilder issues
Hello! I would like to discuss a couple of topics about the autobuilder here, and I hope it's okay to do it here rather than in bugzilla, because they aren't bugs. First problem: I tried to upload yesterday the unrar and tar packages to the autobuilder and while it worked fine for diablo, there was a problem with the chinook builder. The logs are here, for example: https://garage.maemo.org/builder/chinook/tar_1.19-3maemo1/ As you can see, there's no gnupg package in chinook sdk. I'm using the excellent mud-builder tool to build some of my packages, and it uses dpkg-depcheck to find out the build dependencies. And indeed, gpg is normally used during a build process - both to check the signature on source .dsc file and to generate a signature for the binary .dsc file. Is it possible to add somehow the gnupg package to chinook sdk package repositories, or they are frozen forever? I can edit the control file after every autobuild manually and remove gnupg from there, but it's an awkward way to do things. Second issue is with old packages in extras-devel. They are going to accumulate over the head, the repository (especially the build-logs directory) is already filled up and this is only going to become worse with time. Would it be possible to remove a old package version (and its build logs in garage/builder/ directory) when a newer package version has been built? If somebody is concerned by the fact that somebody may replace somebody else's package and that one will be lost, this can be done only for older packages where Maintainer: or Changed-By: field is the same as in the newer package. This way it's up to the maintainer to keep the older versions, if he needs then. -- Andrew signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Navigating on OSM data on maemo
I am wondering if currently anybody is working actively on porting navigation software with offline routing to maemo with osm data. As well as the previously mentioned: Navit (http://wiki.navit-project.org/index.php/OpenStreetMaps) Gosmore (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Gosmore) There are a couple of others which should be mentioned, which can use (free) OSM data. See here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Routing E.g. Roadnav as preliminary support for OSM (http://roadnav.sourceforge.net/). It says it can do navigation to anywhere in the USA, but with the right maps I suppose this would scale to anywhere. Pyroute/Rana does/do routing in Python using OSM data (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Pyroute being replaced by http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Rana) There is a mailing list linked from the osm routing page, as well as a couple of other wiki pages about routing which would probably be worth reading. Cheers, Simon ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Testing application under targets arm and x86
Hi All, I have compiled my application under ARMEL target. When I execute it, i get errors like: Unsupported setsockopt level=1 optname=2 Unsupported setsockopt level=0 optname=35 Unsupported setsockopt level=1 optname=9 qemu:unsupported syscall:307 Gdk - shmget failed: error 38 qemu: uncaught targe5t signal 11 etc. I searched google and found that armel target is not to be used for testing but only for compilation purposes. When I tried to execute the armel compiled binary on x86, I got a message : /scratchbox/tools/bin/misc_runner: SBOX_CPUTRANSPARANCY_METHOD not set When I compile as well as run application on X86 target , it works fine. I'm new to it, so i'm not sure whether I'm doing things in correct manner. Any comments or help is more than welcome. Regards Arvind =-=-= Notice: The information contained in this e-mail message and/or attachments to it may contain confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, any dissemination, use, review, distribution, printing or copying of the information contained in this e-mail message and/or attachments to it are strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us by reply e-mail or telephone and immediately and permanently delete the message and any attachments. Thank you ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Some autobuilder issues
On Wed, 2008-08-06 at 11:48 +0400, ext Andrew Zabolotny wrote: Hello! I would like to discuss a couple of topics about the autobuilder here, and I hope it's okay to do it here rather than in bugzilla, because they aren't bugs. First problem: I tried to upload yesterday the unrar and tar packages to the autobuilder and while it worked fine for diablo, there was a problem with the chinook builder. The logs are here, for example: https://garage.maemo.org/builder/chinook/tar_1.19-3maemo1/ It seems that you've managed to fix it already, right? As you can see, there's no gnupg package in chinook sdk. I'm using the excellent mud-builder tool to build some of my packages, and it uses dpkg-depcheck to find out the build dependencies. And indeed, gpg is normally used during a build process - both to check the signature on source .dsc file and to generate a signature for the binary .dsc file. Is it possible to add somehow the gnupg package to chinook sdk package repositories, or they are frozen forever? I can edit the control file after every autobuild manually and remove gnupg from there, but it's an awkward way to do things. If you need gnupg you can add it to extras[-devel] like any other package. Why it should be added to sdk? Second issue is with old packages in extras-devel. They are going to accumulate over the head, the repository (especially the build-logs directory) is already filled up and this is only going to become worse with time. Would it be possible to remove a old package version (and its build logs in garage/builder/ directory) when a newer package version has been built? Good point. I think that build directories older than month can be deleted. Regards, -- Ed ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Upload to extras fails
Seems like you broke something again: Good signature on /home/pavel/workspace/youamp_0.3.7-3.dsc. Uploading to diablo-extras-builder (via scp to garage.maemo.org): Permission denied (publickey,keyboard-interactive). lost connection Warning: The execution of '/usr/bin/scp' as 'scp -p /home/pavel/workspace/youamp_0.3.7-3.dsc /home/pavel/workspace/youamp_0.3.7-3.tar.gz /home/pavel/workspace/youamp_0.3.7-3_source.changes [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/var/www/extras-devel/incoming-builder/diablo' returned a nonzero exit code. Error while uploading. Im getting this for 2 days already. Though I first suspected my rsa key change first, I was able to upload once after that... I suspect that your key change didn't work correctly or you uploaded the wrong key. Can you send me your pubkey off-list, so I can check if it matches? You can also set the loglevel of your ssh to debug, so you can see what the actual problem is. (Rejected key or something like that) Pavel -- Niels Breet maemo.org webmaster ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Maemo SDK scratchbox breaks with Debian lenny upgrade
Hi, ext Graham Cobb wrote: I have just installed the latest Debian lenny upgrades on one of my systems, which installed a new linux kernel, and scratchbox has broken! This appears to be the (well known) VDSO problem but the workround I found using Google (echo 0 /proc/sys/vm/vdso_enabled) does not work (that file does not exist), neither does vdso=0 (or 2) on the boot command line. I presume the problem is that Debian has decided to change this feature even though it breaks user programs. This is a real pain. I build 40 packages every night for chinook, bora and gregale, which, as you can guess, requires a fairly complex build environment.Currently the builds use either chroot or user-mode-linux environments which give reasonable speed (but builds still take up to 6 hours!) but use the host system's kernel. I really do not want to go back to an emulation environment, just so that I can run a separate kernel, because that gives poor reliability and **much** slower builds -- builds will likely take 24 hours. It also means I cannot compile modules for testing in my normal build environment. I noticed you filed a bug about this both for maemo: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3479 And Debian: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=492702 Thanks! There was a further comment about this issue in bug: --- Do you have compat vdso support compiled in your kernel? My guess would be that the linux-image-2.6.25-2-amd64 doesn't have that support compiled in, thus using exclusively the randomized vdso which is unsupported by the old glibc inside scratchbox. --- Does anyone know when scratchbox and the SDK environments will be fixed to work with up to date Debian kernels? Note that, if the Maemo community want programs like GPE to continue to be maintained for the 770 user community then these fixes have to also apply to gregale (and bora for N800 users who have never upgraded). My hopes are on the SDK+ project: http://maemo-sdk.garage.maemo.org/ It should already work fairly OK for building ARMEL packages, but currently it's tested/supports only Ubuntu Gutsy Hardy. In the immediate term I will go back to using the previous kernel but these systems are my normal user and development machines so I can't live with out of date kernels for long. I can also build my own kernel but I do want to return to using stock Debian kernels as soon as I can. - Eero ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Install/Run Issues With Scratchbox
Hi, ext Dr. Nicholas Shaw wrote: There are the packages (Chinook) that I installed (note there doesn't appear to be a compiler): ... . scratchbox-toolchain-cs2005q3.2-glibc2.5-arm 1.0.7.2 . scratchbox-toolchain-cs2005q3.2-glibc2.5-i386 1.0.7 These are compilers for arm and x86 scratchbox targets. Arm version is a cross-compiler and x86 compiler just is built so that the binaries built against it link to /lib /usr/lib[1]. [1] unlike binaries built with host-gcc toolchain which links libraries from directories that are available for targets regardless of whether they are ARM or x86. Host-gcc is intended for building your own build tools in case ARM ones are too slow. Host-gcc built binaries should be installed under /host_usr/ directory that doesn't change when switching scratchbox target with the sb-conf command. [...] Ok, so manual install doesn't appear to have worked so I once again tried the install script. BTW, I'm running Debian 4R3 and I installed gcc/g++ afterwards and I tested it by compiling a program and it works. The scratchbox-toolchain packages contain both gcc g++. If you install native (arm) compiler toolchain to your ARM scratchbox target instead of using scratchbox-toolchain cross-compiler, your source builds will be much slower. - Eero ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
border in osso-xterm in fullscreen?
Hi, I'm wondering why fixed font with height of 16 won't give me full 30 lines in osso-xterm but 29 lines plus one empty line on the bottom. Anyone knows answer to this mystery? My theory is that there is 1 pixel border around terminal widget (but not scrollbar) so it won't fit because of 1 or 2 missing pixel lines on the bottom. If you set border in osso-xterm to white an run some fullscreen terminal application with colored background (like midnight commander) there is thin white line around it. I have searched matchbox and gtk theme files, diablo version of osso-xterm and libvte sources but did not find anything suspicious. Ideas? Since the color of the border actually changes when changing osso-xterm window background color setting it looks like terminal widget gets full area for drawing but still the font is drawn with thin border i.e like drawn at 1,1 coordinates instead of 0,0. Frantisek ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: documentation in .deb packages
Hi, ext Andrew Zabolotny wrote: So far my packages install a few files in /usr/share/doc/${pkg}/ and for some reason they are not autoremoved. Did you use apt to install them, or did you use dpkg directly? I use Application Manager, clicking in browser on a .deb file and then app manager is launched and installs the .deb. However, now I understand why the directories under /usr/share/doc sometimes disappears by magic, it seems docpurge was launched when I installed something from the repositories :-) I think docpurge is installed as Apt hook. Looks like Application Manager also uses dpkg when installing a single deb file. I tried to put the .deb to my own private repository and voila - no doc files :) If you're building a package specifically for Maemo, then by all means remove the docs from the deb! You'll reduce the download size, and save some flash memory from wearing out sooner. I realise this, but most debs contain anyway at least the the changelog. It's better to split docs to separate package if there are lots of them. And preferably try to propagate this change to upstream if it's not your own package. - Eero ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Testing application under targets arm and x86
Right, the flow is: compile x86, run x86, compile arm, hope it works on your device (in general it does). This is one option, there are others but I have not explored them. Frank On Wed, Aug 6, 2008 at 5:16 AM, Arvind1 K [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi All, I have compiled my application under ARMEL target. When I execute it, i get errors like: Unsupported setsockopt level=1 optname=2 Unsupported setsockopt level=0 optname=35 Unsupported setsockopt level=1 optname=9 qemu:unsupported syscall:307 Gdk - shmget failed: error 38 qemu: uncaught targe5t signal 11 etc. I searched google and found that armel target is not to be used for testing but only for compilation purposes. When I tried to execute the armel compiled binary on x86, I got a message : /scratchbox/tools/bin/misc_runner: SBOX_CPUTRANSPARANCY_METHOD not set When I compile as well as run application on X86 target , it works fine. I'm new to it, so i'm not sure whether I'm doing things in correct manner. Any comments or help is more than welcome. Regards Arvind =-=-= Notice: The information contained in this e-mail message and/or attachments to it may contain confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, any dissemination, use, review, distribution, printing or copying of the information contained in this e-mail message and/or attachments to it are strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us by reply e-mail or telephone and immediately and permanently delete the message and any attachments. Thank you ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Testing application under targets arm and x86
Hi, you're doing it right. You compile and test your software on the X86 target and when everything is fine, you enter the ARMEL target to build the installer package. The ARMEL target is quite limited for running software. But it's possible to use the tablet's CPU for running the code in the ARMEL target. This is the CPU transparency method, but I have never used it, so I cannot tell you anything about it. Martin 2008/8/6, Arvind1 K [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi All, I have compiled my application under ARMEL target. When I execute it, i get errors like: Unsupported setsockopt level=1 optname=2 Unsupported setsockopt level=0 optname=35 Unsupported setsockopt level=1 optname=9 qemu:unsupported syscall:307 Gdk - shmget failed: error 38 qemu: uncaught targe5t signal 11 etc. I searched google and found that armel target is not to be used for testing but only for compilation purposes. When I tried to execute the armel compiled binary on x86, I got a message : /scratchbox/tools/bin/misc_runner: SBOX_CPUTRANSPARANCY_METHOD not set When I compile as well as run application on X86 target , it works fine. I'm new to it, so i'm not sure whether I'm doing things in correct manner. Any comments or help is more than welcome. Regards Arvind =-=-= Notice: The information contained in this e-mail message and/or attachments to it may contain confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, any dissemination, use, review, distribution, printing or copying of the information contained in this e-mail message and/or attachments to it are strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us by reply e-mail or telephone and immediately and permanently delete the message and any attachments. Thank you ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Navigating on OSM data on maemo
Hi, as Google Maps provides on-line routing please tell me why on-line routing as add-on has not been incorporated into maemo-mapper yet ? Ok. I am fully aware of ToS by Google. But project is project, on-line Wifi/ Internet access is another issue. Frankly speaking there is no relation between routing and type of maps (vector or bitmaps) in use as Google's server generates on-line routing as z-layer onto already downloaded bitmap maps So all what should be done is to use maemo-mapper with Google Maps as previously and have proxy server to enable routing downloading from Google's server from time to time (Internet access is provided). There is a number of such applications in operation and Internet access is granted via cell phone / GPRS. So Google Maps can be preloaded before your travel and routing data than come live as array data. Ok. The issue is you wish to visualize routing on maps or just want to listen to travel direction commands and have them in printed form. I worked 3 years with Google Maps as a developer and can help if you are interested to have live routing in maemo (maemo-mapper or just another application). No need for vector maps to have live routing (as explained above). Please contact me to setup a small team as I need open source navigation +routing for another project. I only need to know if maemo and its OS as GUI is not to slow to generate routing live. Darius --- On Tue, 5/8/08, Christoph Eckert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Christoph Eckert [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Navigating on OSM data on maemo To: maemo-developers@maemo.org Date: Tuesday, 5 August, 2008, 11:16 PM Hi, I am wondering if currently anybody is working actively on porting navigation software with offline routing to maemo with osm data. I know that somebody worked on navit somebody else on Gosmore, but I have not seen updates since a long time...is there anything else going on? Navit could be a perfect companion on Maemo. Compiles, runs and routes nicely - as long as there's no gps signal... :( Unfortunately it frequently freezes as soon as gpsd is running. Unfortunately my C knowledge is rather nonexistent so I cannot debug or improve this behaviour. There are (rather dated) packages on [1]. The author asks for patience regarding updates as he's working on some stuff. Best regards, ce [1] http://tecdencia.net/navit/ ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Gtk Dialog box causing application to crash
Hi All, I'm facing a strange problem while using GTK+ Dialog box I've used two dialogs one in IF and other in ELSE if (some condition) { GtkWidget *dialog1 = gtk_message_dialog_new (main_window, GTK_DIALOG_DESTROY_WITH_PARENT, GTK_MESSAGE_QUESTION, GTK_BUTTONS_YES_NO, Send file to server %s?, filename); result = gtk_dialog_run (GTK_DIALOG (dialog1)); gtk_widget_destroy (dialog1); } else { GtkWidget *dialog2 = gtk_message_dialog_new (main_window, GTK_DIALOG_DESTROY_WITH_PARENT, GTK_MESSAGE_QUESTION, GTK_BUTTONS_YES_NO, Download file %s?, filename); result = gtk_dialog_run (GTK_DIALOG (dialog2)); gtk_widget_destroy (dialog2); } However if I use just a single dialog box at a time, everything works fine. I've used gdk_threads_enter() and gdk_threads_leave() whereever possible. these dialog boxes are created on 'select' event of CList so i cannot use gdk_threads_enter() and gdk_threads_leave(). I need to have few more dialog boxes, but using only 2 is causing problems of application crash. Can anybody address this issue? thanks and regards Arvind =-=-= Notice: The information contained in this e-mail message and/or attachments to it may contain confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, any dissemination, use, review, distribution, printing or copying of the information contained in this e-mail message and/or attachments to it are strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us by reply e-mail or telephone and immediately and permanently delete the message and any attachments. Thank you ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: border in osso-xterm in fullscreen?
From Wed, 06 Aug 2008 14:31:08 +0200 Frantisek Dufka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm wondering why fixed font with height of 16 won't give me full 30 lines in osso-xterm but 29 lines plus one empty line on the bottom. Anyone knows answer to this mystery? Of course that's because the height of the client window area is not divisible by the fonw height. You may want to try DejaVu Sans Mono, the pre-packaged DejaVu fonts can be downloaded here: http://cs.ozerki.net/zap/maemo/dists/diablo/main/binary-armel/ttf-dejavu_2.25-1_all.deb In my opinion, DejaVu Sans Mono gives a much nicer appearance to the terminal. -- Andrew signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Gtk Dialog box causing application to crash
Arvind1 K ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: I'm facing a strange problem while using GTK+ Dialog box I've used two dialogs one in IF and other in ELSE if (some condition) { GtkWidget *dialog1 = gtk_message_dialog_new (main_window, [...] } else { GtkWidget *dialog2 = gtk_message_dialog_new (main_window, [...] result = gtk_dialog_run (GTK_DIALOG (dialog2)); gtk_widget_destroy (dialog2); } However if I use just a single dialog box at a time, everything works fine. I don't understand when the problem happens. The sourcecode is not very specific and it does not explain how two dialogs come into play, since after executing this code there is just one dialog open. I've used gdk_threads_enter() and gdk_threads_leave() whereever possible. these dialog boxes are created on 'select' event of CList so i cannot use gdk_threads_enter() and gdk_threads_leave(). Do you actually use threads? I need to have few more dialog boxes, but using only 2 is causing problems of application crash. Can anybody address this issue? I did not yet really understand the problem, I suspect there is a lot of background information missing. Bye, Simon -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://simon.budig.de/ ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
powering on gps, playing nice with others
Hey I'm having trouble finding the way to power on the gps for my own program in a way that plays nice with maemo mapper. IIt might be that maemo mapper is bending some rules too but it's hard to tell. If I use the call gpsbt_start(NULL, 0, 0, 0, errors, 256, 0, ctx) then the gps will start and before long I have coordinates. However, if I then start up maemo mapper, stop the gps from my app, then stop the gps from maemo mapper, the gps is left running. If I use the call gpsmgr_start(/usr/sbin/gpsd, NULL, /tmp/.gpsd_ctrl_sock, 0, 0, ctx) then gpsd apparently starts but is not connected properly to anything because I never get coordinates. Also if I then run maemo mapper, it keeps saying it's looking for a gps, not even to the point where it's trying to get a fix. The docs are a bit confusing on this and have a mix of old and new approaches. I'm using diablo, I expect the user to set the gps location in the gps preferences panel, so I don't expect to have to specify the gps device. Maemo mapper even seems a little mixed up on this front since what you do is specify in its prefs that you have a bt gps but the address you specify there is ignored and the system preference is used. thanks for any tips Brad ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers