RE: On the problem of Nokia bugs substituting changelogs
Hi Ryan, -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ext Quim Gil ext Ryan Abel wrote: itT user free was kind enough to compile what basically amounts to a changelog for 4.2008.30-2[1] [2]Actually, let me take this opportunity to CALL OUT the Modest developers for very poor communication with the community for a supposedly open source project. Their component on Bugzilla seems to be virtually barren of real Modest-developer participation, and one only seems to be able to elicit a response from any of them when they're practically cornered on significant bugs. This is very unfortunate for what I hope will become a very cool, lightweight, and open source email client. . . . :( An explanation here could be a coincidence of factors: Dirk was the project manager and was quite open about the development, blogging and stuff - but he changed his role at Nokia and now is elsewhere. Most of the core development was/is done out of Nokia. Philip can answer for any tinymail related stuff since he is public upstream but the Modest implementation is upstream itself and open source, but developed through traditional contractual relations. Another lesson to learn here. If any Modest developer (or any Nokia subcontractor) reading this has ideas for improvement please let us/me know. Thanks again. Thanks Quim -- to add to that; I still keep an eye on Modest development, applying the occasional parch (as I did this morning). Anyhow, regarding Bugzilla - we do look at it, but as Quim explains, it takes quite some acrobatics to take care of both internal and external worlds. The Modest development team is very busy with feature development and bug fixes, and admittedly, after that there's not s much time left for interacting with the community. That's a sad fact. But, in the end, we are really trying to produce the best possible e-mail client, no matter what. We really appreciate the feedback through bugzilla and elsewhere. And if you have any specific issue, please mail me directly, let's see what we can do. Best wishes, Dirk. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
SDK, sources Re: On the problem of Nokia bugs substituting changelogs
Hi Quim, nice to see you back :-) Quim Gil wrote: but there are others that are about as bad as they could get. Let's list them too, and we will show them the previous list for reference on how a Nokia team can do things right. Another bad example here is the kernel, search the http://p.quinput.eu/debfarm/changelog.html file for 'kernel-diablo'. We can see only '* Updated kernel version XXX' instead of real info. So basically we are completely in the dark if new kernel actually fixes something or not. This is yet another annoyance to the fact that we still don't have updated sources in http://repository.maemo.org/pool/diablo/free for GPLed stuff updated in latest 4.2008.30-2 Diablo update. This is of course bad for any GPLed package but it causes practical problems especially for linux kernel source. There are a lot of kernel hacks in the wild and after each firmware people must choose between older customized kernel and new (possibly fixed? how can we know?) one. So will we get updated SDK release with sources for latest Diablo update (and any further one too)? Also can this whole firmware and SDK release procedure be changed so building and releasing sources is integral part of building and releasing any binary (firmware or SSU) as it is 'suggested' by GPL licence? We discussed this topic many times here with no visible change so far. Random pointers to previous discussion: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2008-January/031424.html http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2008-January/031426.html Frantisek ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: On the problem of Nokia bugs substituting changelogs
Hi, I hope this doesn't get taken too badly... [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Modest development team is very busy with feature development and bug fixes, and admittedly, after that there's not s much time left for interacting with the community. That's a sad fact. The problem I have seen in the past is that when developers and project managers think of interacting with the community as a separate task, it doesn't get done. Open development is interacting with the community already, surely? If developers of a free software program are using a public mailing list to discuss features, a public bugzilla to handle bug reports, and perhaps an IRC channel or Jabber chat room for real-time interaction, then interacting with the commuinity is not a task to do, it is a side effect of product development. Would it be possible for the Modest team to exclusively use the external bugzilla, given that it's a free software project? Cheers, Dave. -- maemo.org docsmaster Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Nokia - lost second chance - another multitouch by Apple patented
Hi, don't you think Nokia already lost 2 chances to go back to top with top cell phone models, having lost interest for N 770 ( first in the world multitouch Internet tablet). N 770 was really multitouch gizmo (just try to move web page with 2 fingers). Another models - N800, N810 went in another direction (keyboard) and market success of Apple with iPod Touch/ iPhone was even greater. Today Apple comes with another hot product - multitouch mini laptop. Please tell me frankly what makes Nokia to show no interest in development of multitouch gizmos, so hot and welcome by customers world-wide ? My friend from Sweden developed multitouch computers and arranged sale and presentation in Dubai. PDA by Asus are not hot, PDA by Samsung are not hot, hot are new cell phones. What ixs hot with iPhone is 0-mechanics gizmo, no mechanical button, no mechanical keyboard. What is a chance to have hot multitouch gizmo by Nokia in next few years ? Parents granted Apple for multitouch solutions still give room for Nokia and others to develop and implement other how multitouch solutions, still patentable. What is trendy today is multitouch. What is trendy tommorrow is 3D gesture recognition. Darius Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
RE: On the problem of Nokia bugs substituting changelogs
Hi Dave, -Original Message- From: Dave Neary [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ext Dave Neary I hope this doesn't get taken too badly... no worries... [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Modest development team is very busy with feature development and bug fixes, and admittedly, after that there's not s much time left for interacting with the community. That's a sad fact. The problem I have seen in the past is that when developers and project managers think of interacting with the community as a separate task, it doesn't get done. Open development is interacting with the community already, surely? If developers of a free software program are using a public mailing list to discuss features, a public bugzilla to handle bug reports, and perhaps an IRC channel or Jabber chat room for real-time interaction, then interacting with the commuinity is not a task to do, it is a side effect of product development. Would it be possible for the Modest team to exclusively use the external bugzilla, given that it's a free software project? It would be very nice from the community perspective, very much so, and of course it would make open development much easier as well. But, internally, the development process is highly regulated, and tools like bugzilla play different roles than they do outside -- trust me on that one. Modest has to satisfy both of its natures, with the internal one getting the most emphasis, for very pedestrian reasons... So, while I agree that it would be nice to have one open bugzilla, I do not see that happening anytime soon. Best wishes, Dirk. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Nokia - lost second chance - another multitouch by Apple patented
Darius Jack ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: [...] N 770 ( first in the world multitouch Internet tablet). N 770 was really multitouch gizmo (just try to move web page with 2 fingers). You're wrong here: what you're seeing when pressing multiple fingers on the touchscreen is some kind of average position. Typically the mousepointer ends up in the middle between the two fingers pressing the screen, just try it in the drawing application. The scrolling in the webbrowser just made you believe that it would be doing something sensible, it really does not. Bye, Simon -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://simon.budig.de/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.kernelconcepts.de/ ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
VKB state (popped up/hidden ?)
hi guys, Is it possible to found out whether the virtual keyboard is being shown or hidden programaticaly ? -- --Antonio Gomes ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Nokia - lost second chance - another multitouch by Apple patented
Nothing wrong ;) I have been developing basic multitouch applications for years. It was just to point out how close was Nokia to implement (to get the idea of) multitouch in N 770 (looking really smart, no mechanics on keyboard, no keyboard). And N 770 was touch screen, so many years before iPhone has been developed. Multitouch is trendy and hot and I am really surprised what makes Nokia not to implement multitouch into maemo. Darius --- On Tue, 2/9/08, Simon Budig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Simon Budig [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Nokia - lost second chance - another multitouch by Apple patented To: maemo-developers@maemo.org Date: Tuesday, 2 September, 2008, 3:49 PM Darius Jack ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: [...] N 770 ( first in the world multitouch Internet tablet). N 770 was really multitouch gizmo (just try to move web page with 2 fingers). You're wrong here: what you're seeing when pressing multiple fingers on the touchscreen is some kind of average position. Typically the mousepointer ends up in the middle between the two fingers pressing the screen, just try it in the drawing application. The scrolling in the webbrowser just made you believe that it would be doing something sensible, it really does not. Bye, Simon -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://simon.budig.de/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.kernelconcepts.de/ ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: On the problem of Nokia bugs substituting changelogs
Am Montag, den 25.08.2008, 10:42 +0300 schrieb Eero Tamminen: As to linking internal and external bugs, I think more interesting would be how many of the public bugs (which aren't enhancements or unconfirmed) don't have a corresponding internal bug alias... the quota for the last month should be around 60%. I'm currently conservative about transfering maemo.org bug reports to Nokia's internal bug tracker because it's lots of work to keep them in sync (been working on some scripts to save me some time, but you cannot automatize this because of the noise ratio. This is another debate I won't start in this thread), and I normally wait until maemo.org bug reports have enough valuable information. Many reports are in moreinfo state or cannot be reproduced easily, hence the quota will never be 100%. andre -- Andre Klapper (maemo.org bugmaster) ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
RE: On the problem of Nokia bugs substituting changelogs
Am Dienstag, den 02.09.2008, 16:41 +0300 schrieb [EMAIL PROTECTED]: -Original Message- From: Dave Neary [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ext Dave Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Would it be possible for the Modest team to exclusively use the external bugzilla, given that it's a free software project? It would be very nice from the community perspective, very much so, and of course it would make open development much easier as well. But, internally, the development process is highly regulated, and tools like bugzilla play different roles than they do outside -- trust me on that one. Modest has to satisfy both of its natures, with the internal one getting the most emphasis, for very pedestrian reasons... So, while I agree that it would be nice to have one open bugzilla, I do not see that happening anytime soon. I also do not see this happening very soon, but it is definitely a long-term target of mine. Developers want one central place to track software issues. This currently is Nokia's internal bug tracker, this should become bugs.maemo.org for Maemo open source projects. The task is to work out those issues that currently block managing Modest, MicroB, etc. completely in public and find solutions for each issue, most probably quite often with the input of lawyers, sigh... So adopting/using Nokia's current internal processes and workflows in public (bugs.maemo.org) requires having a policy about those pieces of information that a commercial company does not want to be accessed by its competitors, such as policy plans, product and hardware information, information about the internal testing infrastructure or especially copyright related issues. (Half of this email copied from a blog entry I was just writing on.) andre -- Andre Klapper (maemo.org bugmaster) ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
is dbus-uuidgen --ensure ok in an install script?
Hey I have an issue that goes away after running dbus-uuidgen --ensure. Is this safe enough to put in a post-install script? I'm writing a daemon that needs to be able to keep the tablet awake (long story). osso_initialize will complete if run from the terminal as user but will fail and abort if I sudo gainroot first or if it's run as an init.d service. I do seteuid() so we're running as user before making the call but it doesn't help. The error message is: initializing osso process 1669: D-Bus library appears to be incorrectly set up; failed to read machine uuid: Failed to open /var/lib/dbus/machine-id:No such file or directory See the manual page for dbus-uuidgen to correct this issue. Should this be filed as a maemo bug? -- Brad ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: is dbus-uuidgen --ensure ok in an install script?
hmm fwiw, maybe it's not so simple... turning on the gps from my daemon doesn't activate the gps status display in the system tray. Is there a better way to do this stuff from the background? -- Brad ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
