Re: Projects Nokia should support (yours?)
On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 10:35 AM, Fred [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Would VLC (http://www.videolan.org) be a good client ? There was a port for Maemo but it was underpowered. It has the capacity to be embedded and could be a very good all-purpose (all-codec) media player ... Perhaps this is one of the days when VLC developers regret the decision to not synchronize/collaborate with GStreamer when GStreamer was there? Since Nokia supports GStreamer for very obvious (to the maemo community) reasons, supporting a competitor project wouldn't be a very wise idea. DISCLAIMER: This is my very personal opinion and it may very well be wrong. Agreed, we have officially supported GStreamer and the excellent mplayer which can be wrapped if someone wants a (different) gui. VLC certainly doesn't classify as a killer app bearing these in mind IMHO. Something with more mileage, though still not really a killer app, would be working on optimisation of the backend libs that all three media players use (therefore any media player would benefit). But this will have to wait until we see what the hardware is capable of really. Cheers, Simon ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Projects Nokia should support (yours?)
On Nov 1, 2008, at 5:47 AM, Simon Pickering wrote: Something with more mileage, though still not really a killer app, would be working on optimisation of the backend libs that all three media players use (therefore any media player would benefit). But this will have to wait until we see what the hardware is capable of really. Considering the hardware is already doing 720p with only NEON optimizations, well. . . . -- Ryan Abel Maemo Community Council chair ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Projects Nokia should support (yours?)
On Saturday 01 November 2008, Ryan Abel wrote: On Nov 1, 2008, at 5:47 AM, Simon Pickering wrote: Something with more mileage, though still not really a killer app, would be working on optimisation of the backend libs that all three media players use (therefore any media player would benefit). But this will have to wait until we see what the hardware is capable of really. Considering the hardware is already doing 720p with only NEON optimizations, well. . . . There are always ways to make a powerful hardware run as fast as a snail ;) Especially when excessively complex frameworks and layers are used, chances of having something implemented inefficiently in between get a bit higher. -- Best regards, Siarhei Siamashka ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Projects Nokia should support (yours?)
Hi! Agreed, we have officially supported GStreamer and the excellent mplayer which can be wrapped if someone wants a (different) gui. VLC certainly doesn't classify as a killer app bearing these in mind IMHO. You missed my entire point. :) mplayer is also a competitor of GStreamer and afaik it is NOT officially supported by Nokia. MPlayer is a great application no doubt but so is VLC (afaik much more portable even) and therefore unfortunately faces the same fate. Something with more mileage, though still not really a killer app, would be working on optimisation of the backend libs that all three media players use (therefore any media player would benefit). But this will have to wait until we see what the hardware is capable of really. Which backend libs all three apps use? I think GStreamer is the perfect backend that all multimedia applications should be using if they are very serious about targeting Maemo. OTOH! I understand their reasons for not going for GStreamer since this will require a huge amount of work and also throwing off a huge amount of investment both MPlayer and VLC have put into their own stacks. -- Regards, Zeeshan Ali Khattak FSF member#5124 ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Projects Nokia should support (yours?)
On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 4:40 AM, Zeeshan Ali (Khattak) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi! On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 10:35 AM, Fred [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Would VLC (http://www.videolan.org) be a good client ? There was a port for Maemo but it was underpowered. It has the capacity to be embedded and could be a very good all-purpose (all-codec) media player ... Perhaps this is one of the days when VLC developers regret the decision to not synchronize/collaborate with GStreamer when GStreamer was there? Since Nokia supports GStreamer for very obvious (to the maemo community) reasons, supporting a competitor project wouldn't be a very wise idea. Like supporting both Qt and GTK+? -- Felipe Contreras ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Projects Nokia should support (yours?)
On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 10:59 PM, Zeeshan Ali (Khattak) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi! Agreed, we have officially supported GStreamer and the excellent mplayer which can be wrapped if someone wants a (different) gui. VLC certainly doesn't classify as a killer app bearing these in mind IMHO. You missed my entire point. :) mplayer is also a competitor of GStreamer and afaik it is NOT officially supported by Nokia. MPlayer is a great application no doubt but so is VLC (afaik much more portable even) and therefore unfortunately faces the same fate. Something with more mileage, though still not really a killer app, would be working on optimisation of the backend libs that all three media players use (therefore any media player would benefit). But this will have to wait until we see what the hardware is capable of really. Which backend libs all three apps use? I think GStreamer is the perfect backend that all multimedia applications should be using if they are very serious about targeting Maemo. OTOH! I understand their reasons for not going for GStreamer since this will require a huge amount of work and also throwing off a huge amount of investment both MPlayer and VLC have put into their own stacks. GStreamer is not as lightweight as FFmpeg for example. I can see why MPlayer and VLC developers wouldn't want to use it as a backend. As a framework it's great though. The backends that Simon talks about are the ones that most projects share: libmad, libvorbis, x264 (which VLC guys started), etc. But must of the codec support comes from FFmpeg (both gst and vlc use it), and I don't see, for example, GStreamer developers optimizing the codecs for ARM as the FFmpeg guys are doing. But this is of course in the open source arena, when doing products you can't just use FFmpeg due to licensing issues. That's why GStreamer is more attractive to companies since it's extensible and proprietary modules can be developed. Android is following a completely different approach. It's providing the codecs themselves[1] in an Apache licence, so the open source community can compile and improve them, but companies can also include them in their products paying the licence fees, and contribute without granting patents. Also, Google is providing the codecs with OpenMAX IL interface, so GStreamer can already make use of them through gst-openmax [2]. In a similar fashion GStreamer can use proprietary DSP accelerated codecs through the OpenMAX IL interface. Anyway, coming back to the subject; I don't have a media player that suit my needs in the Maemo devices, so VLC looks like a nice alternative. But eventually, as Simon points out, it's more important to work on the backends that the different players can reuse, otherwise performance will be bad. [1] http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=platform/external/opencore.git [2] http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/GstOpenMAX -- Felipe Contreras ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Projects Nokia should support (yours?)
On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 3:40 PM, Siarhei Siamashka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Saturday 01 November 2008, Ryan Abel wrote: On Nov 1, 2008, at 5:47 AM, Simon Pickering wrote: Something with more mileage, though still not really a killer app, would be working on optimisation of the backend libs that all three media players use (therefore any media player would benefit). But this will have to wait until we see what the hardware is capable of really. Considering the hardware is already doing 720p with only NEON optimizations, well. . . . There are always ways to make a powerful hardware run as fast as a snail ;) Especially when excessively complex frameworks and layers are used, chances of having something implemented inefficiently in between get a bit higher. Yes, but as long as you avoid memory copies having 3 or 4 layers is a small price to pay if the the gist of the code is properly optimized. H.264 for example can consume a lot of CPU power so every optimization (on the processing code) counts. -- Felipe Contreras ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Projects Nokia should support (yours?)
On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 1:05 AM, Felipe Contreras [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 4:40 AM, Zeeshan Ali (Khattak) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi! On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 10:35 AM, Fred [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Would VLC (http://www.videolan.org) be a good client ? There was a port for Maemo but it was underpowered. It has the capacity to be embedded and could be a very good all-purpose (all-codec) media player ... Perhaps this is one of the days when VLC developers regret the decision to not synchronize/collaborate with GStreamer when GStreamer was there? Since Nokia supports GStreamer for very obvious (to the maemo community) reasons, supporting a competitor project wouldn't be a very wise idea. Like supporting both Qt and GTK+? Heh! this analogy isn't a very good one since: 1. You do know that Qt is now owned by Nokia? Adding support for that besides maintaining support for *existing Gtk+ shouldn't be a big surprise? 2. Gtk+ and Qt are very great UI *frameworks* but the same is not true about GStreamer, VLC and MPlayer since the last two are more of Players rather than frameworks, although good pretty good but still not really frameworks. -- Regards, Zeeshan Ali (Khattak) FSF member#5124 ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
