RE: programming on the n800 itself
Hi, Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 15:28:40 + (UTC) From: Hendrik Boom [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: programming on the n800 itself To: maemo-developers@maemo.org Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Are there any ports available for programming languages so that development can be done on the n800 itself? Programming in the wild, so to speak, instead of cross-compiling at the desk? I do not know any ports for gcc toolchain to Tablets. It there are ones please provide links where to get one. I woulld be interested to see how porting has been done to the little restricted environment we have in Tablet :). I have hopes for gcc, or lisp, or something that can handle data structures and static typing. I've noticed there are a bunch of guile files as part of my n800 system. Is there also a standalone guile interpreter? We have Python available in Diablo extras. Just install meta package To setup Tablet development environment. See instructions from here: http://maemo.org/development/documentation/programming_languages/ If you want to improve communication between your host PC and Tablet You can install maemo PC Connectivity package again from Diablo extras http://maemo.org/development/documentation/pc_connectivity/ If you want to use Eclipse IDE for Python on-device development we have the first version (still somewhat restricted) of Pluthon Eclipse plugin available. http://maemo.org/development/documentation/ide_integration/ I've seen a report that gcc runs out of memory rather quickly on an n770. Does the same apply to n800? And which memory does it run out of? RAM? swap? disk? It seems rather ridiculous that a machine with 258MB should have insufficient storage for programming ... back in the 70's we could do some pretty sophisticated stuff on Unix on a 64K PDP-11. Times sure change, don't they? Somebody already proposed to clone your rootfs to mmc card and use that as development environment. This will solve memory problems (if you use big enough mmc card :) also for C/C++ development as you can freely install all needed tools, debug symbols etc. Cheers, //Jarmo -- hendrik ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: programming on the n800 itself
ext [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I do not know any ports for gcc toolchain to Tablets. It there are ones please provide links where to get one. I woulld be interested to see how porting has been done to the little restricted environment we have in Tablet :). Man, I hope it is nice and cozy behind your rock. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
RE: programming on the n800 itself
Hi, -Original Message- From: Marius Vollmer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: programming on the n800 itself ext [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I do not know any ports for gcc toolchain to Tablets. It there are ones please provide links where to get one. I woulld be interested to see how porting has been done to the little restricted environment we have in Tablet :). Man, I hope it is nice and cozy behind your rock. My rock is always nice and cozy. What shape is yours :). Chees, //Jarmo ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
programming on the n800 itself
Are there any ports available for programming languages so that development can be done on the n800 itself? Programming in the wild, so to speak, instead of cross-compiling at the desk? I have hopes for gcc, or lisp, or something that can handle data structures and static typing. I've noticed there are a bunch of guile files as part of my n800 system. Is there also a standalone guile interpreter? I've seen a report that gcc runs out of memory rather quickly on an n770. Does the same apply to n800? And which memory does it run out of? RAM? swap? disk? It seems rather ridiculous that a machine with 258MB should have insufficient storage for programming ... back in the 70's we could do some pretty sophisticated stuff on Unix on a 64K PDP-11. Times sure change, don't they? -- hendrik ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: programming on the n800 itself
Hi, ext Hendrik Boom wrote: Are there any ports available for programming languages so that development can be done on the n800 itself? Programming in the wild, so to speak, instead of cross-compiling at the desk? Well, there are some interpreted languages that are installed by default on the device: - Busybox: - POSIX shell - Awk - Browser: - JavaScript - Flash action script All of them offer control structures, variables etc. For example shell: x=1; for i in $(seq 20); do x=$(($x+$x)); echo $x; done I have hopes for gcc, or lisp, or something that can handle data structures and static typing. I've noticed there are a bunch of guile files as part of my n800 system. Is there also a standalone guile interpreter? I've seen a report that gcc runs out of memory rather quickly on an n770. Does the same apply to n800? And which memory does it run out of? RAM? swap? disk? I would assume RAM. When compiling C++ code, GCC can in some cases take even half a gig of RAM. The development packages can take a bit of disk also. It seems rather ridiculous that a machine with 258MB should have insufficient storage for programming ... back in the 70's we could do some pretty sophisticated stuff on Unix on a 64K PDP-11. Times sure change, don't they? Well, the GCC assembler doesn't require that much RAM, but its set of modern high level language abstractions is pretty spartan. ;-) For example Lua would be pretty small (also interpreted) and should be quite easy to build for the target device: http://www.lua.org/ Python can be found from the repositories and it has bindings for Gtk, SDL etc. - Eero ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: programming on the n800 itself
Hendrik, I build my application exclusively on the device in c. I have installed gcc and the primary development libraries required for my application and find the compile times for individual source files very acceptable. Of course when I need to rebuild the entire project I know its time to have a coffee, but thats not such a bad thing. There are some things missing which prevent this approach from working in the general case: primarily there is no autotools, so you cannot run configure on downloaded sources, and dpkg-* tools do not install without some major tweaking. I have also installed and use c++ and vala on the device, however both of these take the incremental compilation time just above my frustration threshhold. Also, if you go down this route, I suggest you use a removable memory card as your build location - it tents to be a vigerous process with lots of file writes along the way - you would not want to risk burning out your internal MMC card. hth Gary (lcuk on #maemo) On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 4:48 PM, Eero Tamminen [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: Hi, ext Hendrik Boom wrote: Are there any ports available for programming languages so that development can be done on the n800 itself? Programming in the wild, so to speak, instead of cross-compiling at the desk? Well, there are some interpreted languages that are installed by default on the device: - Busybox: - POSIX shell - Awk - Browser: - JavaScript - Flash action script All of them offer control structures, variables etc. For example shell: x=1; for i in $(seq 20); do x=$(($x+$x)); echo $x; done I have hopes for gcc, or lisp, or something that can handle data structures and static typing. I've noticed there are a bunch of guile files as part of my n800 system. Is there also a standalone guile interpreter? I've seen a report that gcc runs out of memory rather quickly on an n770. Does the same apply to n800? And which memory does it run out of? RAM? swap? disk? I would assume RAM. When compiling C++ code, GCC can in some cases take even half a gig of RAM. The development packages can take a bit of disk also. It seems rather ridiculous that a machine with 258MB should have insufficient storage for programming ... back in the 70's we could do some pretty sophisticated stuff on Unix on a 64K PDP-11. Times sure change, don't they? Well, the GCC assembler doesn't require that much RAM, but its set of modern high level language abstractions is pretty spartan. ;-) For example Lua would be pretty small (also interpreted) and should be quite easy to build for the target device: http://www.lua.org/ Python can be found from the repositories and it has bindings for Gtk, SDL etc. - Eero ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: programming on the n800 itself
On Tue, 23 Sep 2008 18:48:47 +0300, Eero Tamminen wrote: Hi, ext Hendrik Boom wrote: Are there any ports available for programming languages so that development can be done on the n800 itself? Programming in the wild, so to speak, instead of cross-compiling at the desk? Well, there are some interpreted languages that are installed by default on the device: - Busybox: - POSIX shell - Awk - Browser: - JavaScript - Flash action script All of them offer control structures, variables etc. For example shell: x=1; for i in $(seq 20); do x=$(($x+$x)); echo $x; done I have hopes for gcc, or lisp, or something that can handle data structures and static typing. I've noticed there are a bunch of guile files as part of my n800 system. Is there also a standalone guile interpreter? Does anyone know which system component uses guile? I've seen a report that gcc runs out of memory rather quickly on an n770. Does the same apply to n800? And which memory does it run out of? RAM? swap? disk? I would assume RAM. When compiling C++ code, GCC can in some cases take even half a gig of RAM. The development packages can take a bit of disk also. There are 89GB SDHC cards now, so that wouldn't be too bad if swapping is cost-effective. But if not, well, I'm not really interested in compile times most conveniently measured in megayears. It seems rather ridiculous that a machine with 258MB should have insufficient storage for programming ... back in the 70's we could do some pretty sophisticated stuff on Unix on a 64K PDP-11. Times sure change, don't they? Well, the GCC assembler doesn't require that much RAM, but its set of modern high level language abstractions is pretty spartan. ;-) Well, that 64K Unix system did have a C compiler, which compiled to assembler, which was then compiled to .o, and finally statically linked. It doesn't *have* to take gigabytes. Mind you, it didn't statically check the types of function arguments. They ended up writing lint to do that. For example Lua would be pretty small (also interpreted) and should be quite easy to build for the target device: http://www.lua.org/ Python can be found from the repositories and it has bindings for Gtk, SDL etc. It looks as if python may be the immediately available tool, then. - Eero ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: programming on the n800 itself
On Tue, 23 Sep 2008 17:06:02 +0100, gary liquid wrote: Hendrik, I build my application exclusively on the device in c. I have installed gcc and the primary development libraries required for my application and find the compile times for individual source files very acceptable. Of course when I need to rebuild the entire project I know its time to have a coffee, but thats not such a bad thing. That's acceptable. How did you install gcc and those libraries in teh first place? From some maemo package somewhere on the net? Did you cross-compile them yourself Or would an ordinary deb from Debian armel work? There are some things missing which prevent this approach from working in the general case: primarily there is no autotools, so you cannot run configure on downloaded sources, and dpkg-* tools do not install without some major tweaking. I have also installed and use c++ and vala on the device, however both of these take the incremental compilation time just above my frustration threshhold. Also, if you go down this route, I suggest you use a removable memory card as your build location - it tents to be a vigerous process with lots of file writes along the way - you would not want to risk burning out your internal MMC card. I'm planning to out the whole OS on an external memory. That should do. hth Gary (lcuk on #maemo) On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 4:48 PM, Eero Tamminen [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: Hi, ext Hendrik Boom wrote: Are there any ports available for programming languages so that development can be done on the n800 itself? Programming in the wild, so to speak, instead of cross-compiling at the desk? Well, there are some interpreted languages that are installed by default on the device: - Busybox: - POSIX shell - Awk - Browser: - JavaScript - Flash action script All of them offer control structures, variables etc. For example shell: x=1; for i in $(seq 20); do x=$(($x+$x)); echo $x; done I have hopes for gcc, or lisp, or something that can handle data structures and static typing. I've noticed there are a bunch of guile files as part of my n800 system. Is there also a standalone guile interpreter? I've seen a report that gcc runs out of memory rather quickly on an n770. Does the same apply to n800? And which memory does it run out of? RAM? swap? disk? I would assume RAM. When compiling C++ code, GCC can in some cases take even half a gig of RAM. The development packages can take a bit of disk also. It seems rather ridiculous that a machine with 258MB should have insufficient storage for programming ... back in the 70's we could do some pretty sophisticated stuff on Unix on a 64K PDP-11. Times sure change, don't they? Well, the GCC assembler doesn't require that much RAM, but its set of modern high level language abstractions is pretty spartan. ;-) For example Lua would be pretty small (also interpreted) and should be quite easy to build for the target device: http://www.lua.org/ Python can be found from the repositories and it has bindings for Gtk, SDL etc. - Eero ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers div dir=ltrspan class=HcCDpespan class=EP8xU style=color: rgb(0, 104, 28);Hendrik,brbr/span/spanI build my application exclusively on the device in c.brI have installed gcc and the primary development libraries required for my application and find the compile times for individual source files very acceptable.br Of course when I need to rebuild the entire project I know its time to have a coffee, but thats not such a bad thing.brbrThere are some things missing which prevent this approach from working in the general case:brprimarily there is no autotools, so you cannot run configure on downloaded sources, and dpkg-* tools do not install without some major tweaking.br brI have also installed and use c++ and vala on the device, however both of these take the incremental compilation time just above my frustration threshhold.brbrAlso, if you go down this route, I suggest you use a removable memory card as your build location - it tents to be a vigerous process with lots of file writes along the way - you would not want to risk burning out your internal MMC card.br brhthbrbrGary (lcuk on #maemo)brbrdiv class=gmail_quoteOn Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 4:48 PM, Eero Tamminen span dir=ltrlt;a href=mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED]/agt;/ span wrote:br blockquote class=gmail_quote style=border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;Hi,br div class=Ih2E3dbr ext Hendrik Boom wrote:br gt; Are there any ports available for programming languages so thatbr gt; development can be done on the n800 itself? nbsp;Programming in the wild, sobr gt; to speak, instead of cross-compiling
Re: programming on the n800 itself
Hendrik Boom wrote: That's acceptable. How did you install gcc and those libraries in teh first place? apt-get, gcc is in SDK repository http://repository.maemo.org/pool/chinook/free/g/gcc-3.4/ As for reducing big memory requirements of gcc see http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=220028#post220028 Frantisek ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: programming on the n800 itself
Hi Hendrik, 2008/9/23 Hendrik Boom [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Does anyone know which system component uses guile? I've done guile stuff on the 770 and N800, including preparing packages for core Guile, g-wrap, slib and guile-gnome. I've lost track of what the latest status of those is, but I'll try to work it out and get back to you. I believe that core Guile, including the library and command line interpreter, may be available in the base maemo repository, and so installable with apt-get. The card game aisleriot uses Guile, so if you install aisleriot it'll pull Guile in too. Regards, Neil ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
