Re: [Mailman-Developers] RELEASED: GNU Mailman (core) 3.0b5
On 1/7/2015 2:13 AM, Paul Wise pa...@bonedaddy.net wrote: On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 3:09 PM, Tanstaafl wrote: Not for those wanting to avoid systemd. systemd is optional and easy to avoid in Debian. Until it isn't, and that is the overriding concern, and with very good reason considering the relatively short track record that systemd has. ___ Mailman-Developers mailing list Mailman-Developers@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Developers] RELEASED: GNU Mailman (core) 3.0b5
On Tue, 6 Jan 2015, Tanstaafl wrote: On 12/30/2014 2:39 PM, Barry Warsaw ba...@list.org wrote: * A release, which remains on Python 2.7 * B release, which is only compatible with Python 3.4 So, wheezy admins will be left out in the cold. Wheezy has Python 2.7. Geoff. ___ Mailman-Developers mailing list Mailman-Developers@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Developers] RELEASED: GNU Mailman (core) 3.0b5
On 1/7/2015 4:21 AM, Geoff Shang ge...@quitelikely.com wrote: On Tue, 6 Jan 2015, Tanstaafl wrote: On 12/30/2014 2:39 PM, Barry Warsaw ba...@list.org wrote: * A release, which remains on Python 2.7 * B release, which is only compatible with Python 3.4 So, wheezy admins will be left out in the cold. Wheezy has Python 2.7. And 3.2... and that is the problem. ___ Mailman-Developers mailing list Mailman-Developers@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Developers] RELEASED: GNU Mailman (core) 3.0b5
On 1/7/2015 10:37 AM, Barry Warsaw ba...@list.org wrote: Let me ask again: if you have to install MM3 from source anyway (and probably many of its dependencies), why is it also a problem to install Python 3.4 from source? Maybe I missed that question (sorry, currently out of the country)... Good point, hadn't considered it... Sorry for the noise... ___ Mailman-Developers mailing list Mailman-Developers@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Developers] RELEASED: GNU Mailman (core) 3.0b5
On Jan 07, 2015, at 05:36 AM, Tanstaafl wrote: And 3.2... and that is the problem. Let me ask again: if you have to install MM3 from source anyway (and probably many of its dependencies), why is it also a problem to install Python 3.4 from source? I've heard that Debian is working on Ubuntu-like PPAs. That would seem like a fruitful way of providing the entire stack for older distros. Cheers, -Barry ___ Mailman-Developers mailing list Mailman-Developers@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Developers] RELEASED: GNU Mailman (core) 3.0b5
Barry Warsaw writes: I've heard that Debian is working on Ubuntu-like PPAs. That would seem like a fruitful way of providing the entire stack for older distros. This is already possible to some extent, as I mentioned earlier: one can enable more recent versions of packages from the Debian repositories, or (as I do) upgrade the distribution but pin packages which you need to be invariant to specific versions. It's also easy to build Debian packages in most cases if you just want to use more recent versions of upstream source. And there really isn't any difficulty in creating a PPA per se, you just add it to your sources list. The software can already handle it I'm pretty sure. The problem is that PPAs just aren't acceptable in many cases for two reasons: (1) they are by definition not subject to distribution QA, and they may not be acceptable to enterprise QA, and (2) if you go to a PPA for Python 3.4, you will also need a 3.4-specific compile of each Python package you depend on, which means packages for those too in most distributions (and specifically in Debian, I believe). (And I'll address (3) effort below.) In the case of (2), you can use the source debs and pretty easily modify them to use Python 3.4 instead of the specified Python (in fact, there probably is a generic source deb for this purpose). Or you can backport Mailman to Python 3.2. But either means that there is *zero* QA for Python 3.4 vs 3.2 (or whatever) differences. Someone who is using Debian stable evidently cares about that risk, and cares *a lot*. Personally, I don't see why we should put in the effort to deal with this. If there are a lot of admins on wheezy systems who are systemd refuseniks (and I sympathize with them, systemd as described in Lennart's blogs is a great idea, but it suffers from mission creep on a Vietnam-sized scale), then there's enough manpower to create a Mailman 3 on wheezy PPA, and mailman-devel and mailman-users (not to forget python-list and maybe even python-dev) will be there to help with Mailman-specific issues in the packages. If there aren't, then why should Mailman supply the manpower to satisfy a small number cranky admins? I suppose most admins will trust that by the time Debian stable gets systemd and Mailman 3, both Mailman and systemd will be good and stable themselves. So as I wrote to Tanstaafl before, TISATAFS but TANSTAAFL! (NB FVO F (speech) != F (beer).) Somebody will pay for this lunch; in this case I think the diners should do it. Mailman itself would get nothing but pain and a big thank you (ie, hot air). ___ Mailman-Developers mailing list Mailman-Developers@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Developers] RELEASED: GNU Mailman (core) 3.0b5
On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 11:37 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote: I've heard that Debian is working on Ubuntu-like PPAs. That would seem like a fruitful way of providing the entire stack for older distros. What about just a backport of Python 3.4 (and any future mailman3 package)? http://backports.debian.org/ -- bye, pabs http://bonedaddy.net/pabs3/ ___ Mailman-Developers mailing list Mailman-Developers@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Developers] RELEASED: GNU Mailman (core) 3.0b5
On Jan 07, 2015, at 11:42 PM, Paul Wise wrote: What about just a backport of Python 3.4 (and any future mailman3 package)? http://backports.debian.org/ For sure, Python 3.4 should be in backports, IMHO. Cheers, -Barry ___ Mailman-Developers mailing list Mailman-Developers@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
