[Mailman-Users] confirming posts
We run a annoucment service mailing list for a university society, and are looking for a solution to the problem of posters not proof readings emails before posting. (usually missing out important details!) A simply step would be to get the poster to have to confirm his post once they had submitted it. Is there any ay of doing this in mailman? --Coops. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] special characters in headers
The template file worked perfectly. Thanks, Brad! On 11/15/05, Brad Knowles [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 7:00 AM -0600 2005-11-15, Lisa Bronson wrote: Has anyone ever successfully used characters (such as the inverted question mark, c with cedilla, n with tilde) in an email list header? You mean in messages being submitted to the list, or messages generated by the system itself? We've tried a number of different things, including using an = sign followed by the hex value of the character, and setting through the command line, but so far, nothing has worked. If you're talking about messages being sent by users to the list, that's entirely up to their MUA. For the rest, you'll need to be editing a template file and using an 8-bit clean editor. -- Brad Knowles, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 SAGE member since 1995. See http://www.sage.org/ for more info. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Setting up lists on a replacement list server w/different name
On Nov 18, 2005, at 9:02 PM, Mark Sapiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm pretty new to Mailman and Postfix (I'm more familiar with Sendmail and Courier on Solaris) so I'm not really sure how to address this - I suppose one answer is to simply turn the old box off and rename the new one rushmore and *then* mass-create the lists on the new one so they all have rushmore tagged in them (from [EMAIL PROTECTED] to any embedded references to rushmore in the Mailman files), but that's a bit touchy - some of the lists on the old one are still used daily, and some are rather important (like our Section mailing list, used every day). If you were to do this, you wouldn't need to create lists on the new box. Just stop incoming mail on the old Machine, allow the queues to drain, copy the lists/ and archives/ directories from the old machine to the new and start mailman on the new machine and switch the DNS. The old machine is running Majordomo and Sendmail, not Mailman and Postfix. Sorry if that wasn't clearer. So it's not a matter of just bringing lists/archives/etc. across, alas. Turning off the old machine and creating the lists on the new, renamed-to-be-the-old machine would then mean that the new lists would have to work straight out of the box, with no downtime. Given my unfamiliarity with the software, this isn't too likely (in fact, I can't even get the crontab.in cron jobs working; why do the default entries in that file contain entries that say mailman /var/mailman/mail/program instead of just /var/mailman/mail/program? It results in the not-unexpected error /bin/sh: line 1: mailman: command not found), so I was looking at possible alternatives - surely I'm not the first person to install Mailman on a new system that is designed to replace an old one (with the new one being renamed to take over the old one's name)? - Greg -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Setting up lists on a replacement list server w/different name
On Fri, 2005-11-18 at 06:58 -0800, Greg Earle wrote: Turning off the old machine and creating the lists on the new, renamed-to-be-the-old machine would then mean that the new lists would have to work straight out of the box, with no downtime. Given my unfamiliarity with the software, this isn't too likely (in fact, I can't even get the crontab.in cron jobs working; why do the default entries in that file contain entries that say mailman /var/mailman/mail/program instead of just /var/mailman/mail/program? It results in the not-unexpected error /bin/sh: line 1: mailman: command not found), so I was looking at possible alternatives - surely I'm not the first person to install Mailman on a new system that is designed to replace an old one (with the new one being renamed to take over the old one's name)? The reason the cron entries have mailman in front of them is because that's the user the job is supposed to run under. Cron has been evolving, there are multiple ways to specify cron jobs with different syntax. If at all possible I recommend you install a mailman package prepared by your vendor as all this issues have been worked out. I see that your new system is RHEL, the Red Hat RPM has been pre-configured to integrate with the rest of the system, installation questions can be answered by reading /usr/share/doc/mailman-*/INSTALL.REDHAT. Also note starting about 1.5 years ago we modified the mailman RPM so that the cron jobs are only run if you are running the mailman service, it used to be that installing the RPM, something many people did without ever running mailman, would then also install the mailman cron jobs which was a drag on system resources and filled the log files with pointless messages. Now the cron job only run when you start the mailman service, once again, this is all explained in INSTALL.REDHAT. With respect to your host name change. What you are in effect doing is trying to create a virtual host (you want one host to respond as if it were another). Both mailman and apache have mechanisms to support virtual domain, extensive documentation can be found in the mailman FAQ and at apache.org. So does postfix, I don't know about the other MTA's. However, you're going to have a problem if you don't turn off the old name, you can't have two machines trying to answer service requests for the same name without a very complex scheme which is probably far beyond what you want to get involved with. Mailman's involvement with the name change is minimal, it effects all internet services. The short answer is for all practical purposes there can only be one machine who answers to that name. -- John Dennis [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Setting up lists on a replacement listserver w/different name
I run a Mailman list on a hosted Web server. I don't have command-line access to mailman. My only method for modifying the list is from the control panel's GUI administration page. I want to create another list with nearly the same settings as the one I currently have. Any way to duplicate my list or use the existing one as a template that I'm overlooking? Thanks, JB -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] confirming posts
On Fri, Nov 18, 2005 at 11:22:55AM -, Hereward Cooper wrote: We run a annoucment service mailing list for a university society, and are looking for a solution to the problem of posters not proof readings emails before posting. (usually missing out important details!) A simply step would be to get the poster to have to confirm his post once they had submitted it. Is there any ay of doing this in mailman? I think you have two choices really: Appoint one person as moderator of the list and have that person proof contributions. Or see whether posters eventually can learn from their mistakes and correct their own behaviour. Personally, I'd go with the first one. :-( George -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] pgppp8DxN2zvk.pgp Description: PGP signature -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] confirming posts
On Fri, Nov 18, 2005 at 12:45:32PM -0500, George A. Theall wrote: On Fri, Nov 18, 2005 at 11:22:55AM -, Hereward Cooper wrote: We run a annoucment service mailing list for a university society, and are looking for a solution to the problem of posters not proof readings emails before posting. (usually missing out important details!) A simply step would be to get the poster to have to confirm his post once they had submitted it. Is there any ay of doing this in mailman? I think you have two choices really: Appoint one person as moderator of the list and have that person proof contributions. Or see whether posters eventually can learn from their mistakes and correct their own behaviour. Personally, I'd go with the first one. :-( I should add that in Mailman you can moderate selected individuals; eg, those who prove incapable of learning. George -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] pgpjZbQiU8kSN.pgp Description: PGP signature -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] having trouble getting webpages to come up
Right after I first installed Mailman I created a new list called mailman. I would think that then I should be able to access the Mailman admin page for this list by using a URL like http://my.host.com/mailman/admin/mailman/ Is that right? When I do this I get an Internal Server Error message. Does anyone have any idea what might cause that? Thanks, Eric What connects mailman to apache can be answered two ways, both are important. 1) The proper URL, which makes sure you're connected to the right server, and it has the right path to get to the mailman cgi. 2) Apache must understand the path part of the URL is to be directed to mailman's cgi, this is what ScriptAlias does. For example: http://myserver.example.com/mailman/listinfo/mylist the myserver.example.com part of the URL directs to the web server on the node myserver in the domain example.com provided that's the right web server and its apache then apache looks at the path part of the URL, which is: mailman/listinfo/mylist ScriptAlias /mailman/ /usr/local/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/ ScriptAlias tells apache that paths which have mailman should be translated so that mailman is replaced by the cgi location and executed. In this case the cgi location is /usr/local/lib/mailman/cgi-bin, it will try to find the script listinfo in that directory because that is the next part of the path and it will pass mylist as a parameter. See the following doc: http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/mod/mod_alias.html#scriptalias -- John Dennis [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman stopped delivering mail
I tried running this python script, and interestingly enough it does cause a message to be delivered correctly. So why does this script work but I get host/servname not known errors when I try to send a message to my list through Mailman? Very mysterious. Eric See the post at http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-May/044742.html. This gives a more elaborate script that actually sends mail in exactly the same way as Mailman's SMTPDirect module. If you run this script as the mailman user, it should fail in the same way that mailman fails. The exact failure should help diagnose the error. If you find it fails in a way different from what's in the FAQ, please report the details and the solution :-) so we can update the FAQ. Note that it is important to do these tests as the mailman user. One person kept trying them as root and they never failed. It turned out that root could read /etc/hosts and mailman couldn't. -- Mark Sapiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Bounce message confusion
Robin Rowe wrote: After my Mailman list exceeded 500 subscribers I started getting complaints from subscribers of spurious bounce messages. There's nothing wrong with their email addresses. I can't seem to turn these annoying bounce messages off in Mailman. What settings should I try? At my ISP the SMTP message rate seems to be throttled to 500/hour, and that may be what's triggering the bounce problem to begin with. Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: In fact, the relevant feature (queueing the mail for later delivery when the service is available) is already built into the MTA. Your ISP has basically put a policy in place that says you can't use this feature; just behave yourself and everything will work. It's not a mailing list manager's purpose to help you work around those restrictions. You really need to get in touch with your ISP's support desk. I have just one thing to add. I think Robin is correct that the outgoing MTA is refusing the additional recipients over 500 and that is resulting in the bounces. I have heard other reports of ISP's offering Mailman service and effectively restricting Mailman to 500 (or some number) of recipients per hour. I think this is ridiculous, deceptive and borders on fraudulent. If you can't make the ISP see this, find another Mailman host with rational policies. Here, courtesy of Brad Knowles' mmdsr script is one day's fairly typical activity from a small installation with only a few lists. Hourly Summary of Messages Sent --- 3 00:00-00:59 0 01:00-01:59 6 02:00-02:59 0 03:00-03:59 0 04:00-04:59 3 05:00-05:59 3 06:00-06:59 183 07:00-07:59 5 08:00-08:59 235 09:00-09:59 656 10:00-10:59 718 11:00-11:59 468 12:00-12:59 542 13:00-13:59 243 14:00-14:59 430 15:00-15:59 68 16:00-16:59 117 17:00-17:59 429 18:00-18:59 423 19:00-19:59 234 20:00-20:59 304 21:00-21:59 715 22:00-22:59 1086 23:00-23:59 As you can see, restricting Mailman to 500 messages per hour would not be satisfactory. Even if you could throttle Mailman to send 500 per hour, it would only take a small increase to create unrecoverable backlogs. -- Mark Sapiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] setting up mailman
Mike Wharton wrote:
When I attempt to run /var/mailman/bin/newlist mailman to create the
newsite I get the following error...
/var/mailman/bin/newlist mailman
Enter the email of the person running the list: Traceback (most recent call
last):
File /var/mailman/bin/newlist, line 219, in ?
main()
File /var/mailman/bin/newlist, line 139, in main
owner_mail = raw_input(
EOFError: EOF when reading a line
Can anyone offer a suggestion as to what I might have missed?
This error occurs because the Python raw_input() function received an
end of file. Did you type control-D instead of an email address
followed by CR? It doesn't look like it in the above, but is it
possible that your shell has somehow redirected standard input to a
file or /dev/null instead of the terminal?
Can you successfully run the following:
$ python
Python 2.4.1 (#1, May 27 2005, 18:02:40)
[GCC 3.3.3 (cygwin special)] on cygwin
Type help, copyright, credits or license for more information.
x = raw_input('Prompt: ')
Prompt: answer
print x
answer
--
Mark Sapiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Setting up lists on a replacementlistserver w/different name
JB wrote: I run a Mailman list on a hosted Web server. I don't have command-line access to mailman. My only method for modifying the list is from the control panel's GUI administration page. I want to create another list with nearly the same settings as the one I currently have. Any way to duplicate my list or use the existing one as a template that I'm overlooking? With only the web interface, I don't think there's any easy way to do this. -- Mark Sapiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] having trouble getting webpages to come up
Eric Evans wrote: Right after I first installed Mailman I created a new list called mailman. I would think that then I should be able to access the Mailman admin page for this list by using a URL like http://my.host.com/mailman/admin/mailman/ Is that right? Yes. When I do this I get an Internal Server Error message. Does anyone have any idea what might cause that? Can you successfully go to http://my.host.com/mailman/admin/some_other_list? If you go to http://my.host.com/mailman/admin/mailman/x, does it work? If so, you likely have something like RedirectMatch /mailman[/]*$ http://my.host.com/mailman/listinfo in your apache config. If you do, you need to anchor this as in RedirectMatch ^/mailman[/]*$ http://my.host.com/mailman/listinfo -- Mark Sapiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman stopped delivering mail
Eric Evans wrote: I tried running this python script, and interestingly enough it does cause a message to be delivered correctly. So why does this script work but I get host/servname not known errors when I try to send a message to my list through Mailman? Very mysterious. What if anything do you have in mm_cfg.py for SMTPHOST and SMTPPORT? If nothing, Have you perhaps changed them in Defaults.py (Nothing in Defaults.py should ever be changed)? If these are all OK, I can only think of 3 possibilities for a difference: 1) your DELIVERY_MODULE is not 'SMTPDirect' in which case, what is it? 2) you are not running the test script with the same Python version as Mailman is using (not a likely cause) 3) you are not running the test script as the same user:group as Mailman's OutgoingRunner. Also, does Mailman successfully send anything? E.g. password reminders or hold notifications. -- Mark Sapiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Setting up lists on a replacement list server w/different name
On 11/18/05 6:58 AM, Greg Earle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The old machine is running Majordomo and Sendmail, not Mailman and Postfix. Sorry if that wasn't clearer. So it's not a matter of just bringing lists/archives/etc. across, alas. It was very clear in your original post, but that detail quickly got left out in the process of quote-trimming. --John -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Bounce message confusion
Thanks to Dan and Stephen for the help with mailman bounces. I understand the overall issues much better as a result and am working with my ISP to try to track down the MTA problem. I'm still puzzled in some details in how to configure bounce processing. If there's a doc somewhere that explains it better please let me know. On the website it says the docs are incomplete and outdated. Dumb question, but I want to make sure I understand: if I turn off bounce processing what happens when there's a bounce? My current settings, I have The maximum member bounce score before the member's subscription is disabled set to 5.0, The number of days after which a member's bounce information is discarded, if no new bounces have been received in the interim at 7, How many Your Membership Is Disabled warnings a disabled member should get before their address is removed from the mailing list at 3, and The number of days between sending the Your Membership Is Disabled warnings at 7. I have the three bounce-notifications-to-me settings turned on. I interpret these setting to mean that it will be at least 5 days before a subscriber email address could be disabled and 3 more days until automatic removal. However, I've had a subscriber report that after rejoining my list he was unsubscribed again the very next day due to bouncing. Is that possible? The mailman description for bounce processing (enclosed below) says, You can control both the number of reminders the member will receive and the frequency with which these reminders are sent. It isn't clear to me how to control that from the settings offered. At what point do warning messages get sent and how often do subscribers receive bounce messages? How do I change the frequency and text of bounce warning messages? My subscribers complain that they don't like to receive bounce messages. Can I stop their bounce warning messages but still keep getting bounce notifications sent to me? How? It says, You should tune both of these to the frequency and traffic volume of your list. For a one-way list of 500 subscribers who get a few announcements a week, how would I estimate what the right settings should be? Thank you! Robin --- According to mailman: When a bounce is received, Mailman tries to extract two pieces of information from the message: the address of the member the message was intended for, and the severity of the problem causing the bounce. The severity can be either hard or soft meaning either a fatal error occurred, or a transient error occurred. When in doubt, a hard severity is used. If no member address can be extracted from the bounce, then the bounce is usually discarded. Otherwise, each member is assigned a bounce score and every time we encounter a bounce from this member we increment the score. Hard bounces increment by 1 while soft bounces increment by 0.5. We only increment the bounce score once per day, so even if we receive ten hard bounces from a member per day, their score will increase by only 1 for that day. When a member's bounce score is greater than the bounce score threshold, the subscription is disabled. Once disabled, the member will not receive any postings from the list until their membership is explicitly re-enabled (either by the list administrator or the user). However, they will receive occasional reminders that their membership has been disabled, and these reminders will include information about how to re-enable their membership. You can control both the number of reminders the member will receive and the frequency with which these reminders are sent. There is one other important configuration variable; after a certain period of time -- during which no bounces from the member are received -- the bounce information is considered stale and discarded. Thus by adjusting this value, and the score threshold, you can control how quickly bouncing members are disabled. You should tune both of these to the frequency and traffic volume of your list. ### -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] setting up mailman
When I enter the suggested commands I get comprehensive details of python
using 'help', however 'copyright' and others return 'command not found'
python
Python 2.4.1 (#1, May 27 2005, 18:02:40)
[GCC 3.3.3 (cygwin special)] on cygwin
copyright
sh: line 1: copyright: command not found
help
GNU bash, version 2.05b.0(1)-release (i386-redhat-linux-gnu)
These shell commands are defined internally. Type `help' to see this list.
Type `help name' to find out more about the function `name'.
Use `info bash' to find out more about the shell in general.
Use `man -k' or `info' to find out more about commands not in this list.
Following is the result of the x = prompt... etc
copyright
sh: line 1: copyright: command not found
x = raw_input('Prompt: ')
answer
sh: line 1: answer: command not found
x = raw_input('Prompt: ')
Prompt: answer
sh: line 1: Prompt:: command not found
print x
sh: line 1: print: command not found
I am a total newbie when it comes to linix and am learning as I go so I may
not have fully understood your suggestion. I typed these into the command
line in the webmin interface on my server.
Still no luck.
Mike
-Original Message-
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, 19 November 2005 7:38 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; mailman-users@python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] setting up mailman
Mike Wharton wrote:
When I attempt to run /var/mailman/bin/newlist mailman to create the
newsite I get the following error...
/var/mailman/bin/newlist mailman
Enter the email of the person running the list: Traceback (most recent
call
last):
File /var/mailman/bin/newlist, line 219, in ?
main()
File /var/mailman/bin/newlist, line 139, in main
owner_mail = raw_input(
EOFError: EOF when reading a line
Can anyone offer a suggestion as to what I might have missed?
This error occurs because the Python raw_input() function received an end of
file. Did you type control-D instead of an email address followed by CR?
It doesn't look like it in the above, but is it possible that your shell has
somehow redirected standard input to a file or /dev/null instead of the
terminal?
Can you successfully run the following:
$ python
Python 2.4.1 (#1, May 27 2005, 18:02:40) [GCC 3.3.3 (cygwin special)] on
cygwin Type help, copyright, credits or license for more
information.
x = raw_input('Prompt: ')
Prompt: answer
print x
answer
--
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San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Bounce message confusion
Robin Rowe wrote: Dumb question, but I want to make sure I understand: if I turn off bounce processing what happens when there's a bounce? The bounce email is discarded and no action is taken. My current settings, I have The maximum member bounce score before the member's subscription is disabled set to 5.0, The number of days after which a member's bounce information is discarded, if no new bounces have been received in the interim at 7, How many Your Membership Is Disabled warnings a disabled member should get before their address is removed from the mailing list at 3, and The number of days between sending the Your Membership Is Disabled warnings at 7. I have the three bounce-notifications-to-me settings turned on. I interpret these setting to mean that it will be at least 5 days before a subscriber email address could be disabled and 3 more days until automatic removal. Not quite. It will be three more weeks until automatic removal. However, I've had a subscriber report that after rejoining my list he was unsubscribed again the very next day due to bouncing. Is that possible? Did you receive a bounce action notification for the second unsubscribe? If this happened, it's a bug. Is it possible the user received an old notice from the prior sub and wasn't really unsubscribed this time? When a member is removed/unsubscribed from a list, all bounce information for that address is deleted. A new member has no bounce information until the first bounce is received. Of course, in the unlikely event that your provider uses a custom MemberAdaptor, all bets are off as it may not be implemented correctly. The mailman description for bounce processing (enclosed below) says, You can control both the number of reminders the member will receive and the frequency with which these reminders are sent. It isn't clear to me how to control that from the settings offered. At what point do warning messages get sent and how often do subscribers receive bounce messages? How do I change the frequency and text of bounce warning messages? Members are disabled due to bouncing and receive the first warning when the score reaches threshold (and if your provider has set VERP_PROBES = Yes, after a probe bounces). They will receive a total of bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings warning messages including the first at intervals of bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval days. then after another bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval days, they will be unsubscribed. At any time during this process, they can visit their options page and re-enable delivery, and everything starts over with a score of 0. My subscribers complain that they don't like to receive bounce messages. Can I stop their bounce warning messages but still keep getting bounce notifications sent to me? How? No. You can't. If you train them to go to their options page and re-enable delivery when they get the first notice, they won't get more until they're disabled again. The real issue is that Mailman sends to the same list in the same order each time, so if the host's MTA bounces all but the first 500 recips, those at the end of the list will never get mail and will always be bouncing. This is what needs to be fixed with the host. If you can't convince them to remove the limit, and you are unwilling to move, you may be able to convince them to set VERP_PROBES = Yes. Since the probes are sent to one user at a time, they may not bounce in which case, the user won't be disabled. Of course, they probably are not receiving list mail anyway. It says, You should tune both of these to the frequency and traffic volume of your list. For a one-way list of 500 subscribers who get a few announcements a week, how would I estimate what the right settings should be? Number of subscribers doesn't matter. The controlling variables are frequency of posting and how 'tight' you want to be. But yours is a pathological situation, so you probably can't improve it by tuning. -- Mark Sapiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] setting up mailman
Mike Wharton wrote:
I am a total newbie when it comes to linix and am learning as I go so I may
not have fully understood your suggestion. I typed these into the command
line in the webmin interface on my server.
That's the problem. Sorry I wasn't more specific about what to do.
Here's another try:
At the shell (command line) prompt, type 'python' and see the following
where '$' represents the shell prompt to which you're typing:
$ python
Python 2.4.1 (#1, May 27 2005, 18:02:40) [GCC 3.3.3 (cygwin special)] on
cygwin Type help, copyright, credits or license for more
information.
The ' ' is the interactive prompt from Python. The other stuff is
from Python and probably won't be exactly the same.
then type x = raw_input('Prompt: ') in response to the prompt and it
should look like
x = raw_input('Prompt: ')
Prompt:
at that point. Type answer (followed by enter) and you should get
another ' ' prompt to which you type print x.
If you are not seeing the ' ' prompt, or you see it, but it is
immediately followed by another shell prompt without your typing
anything, there is some issue in the shell or the invocation of python
such all input requests are receiving an end_of_file 'automatic
response.
This could be caused for example by 'python' being aliased in your
shell to 'python /dev/null', although I have no idea why that would
be. You can type 'alias' at a shell prompt to see all the command
aliases.
--
Mark Sapiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
--
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Bounce message confusion
Mark, Thanks for the info! As you can see, restricting Mailman to 500 messages per hour would not be satisfactory. Even if you could throttle Mailman to send 500 per hour, it would only take a small increase to create unrecoverable backlogs. According to our ISP Hostforweb.com, the mail backlog is supposed to catch up later. I think that's not happening. Haven't researched MTA issues myself yet. Do you know what docs I should read on that? Did you receive a bounce action notification for the second unsubscribe? If this happened, it's a bug. I don't know. It happened before I was monitoring closedly. The real issue is that Mailman sends to the same list in the same order each time, so if the host's MTA bounces all but the first 500 recips, those at the end of the list will never get mail and will always be bouncing. This is what needs to be fixed with the host. We're trying, but my ISP doesn't seem to understand what's wrong. It's frustrating that I can't tell what's happening firsthand. Is there a way I can add an email address of my own that will definitely be at the end of the send list and therefore get the bounce? For instance, are mailman emails sent alphabetical by address that I could add a [EMAIL PROTECTED] address that would be sure to get sent last? Thank you, Robin -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] setting up mailman
OK... thanks for spelling that out for a newbie like me... I continued to
get nothing in the Command Shell of webmin so I used telnet to telnet to the
server and it all worked as expected in the shell there. I must be a problem
with webmin (or maybe webmin is not meant to be used in this way...)
Anyway, I got all the expected results... the 'print x' resulted in
answer
What does this suggest to you? Should I try to run the required commands for
mailman in the telnet session rather than from the command shell in webmin?
Thanks again...
Mike
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Mark Sapiro
Sent: Saturday, 19 November 2005 12:13 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; mailman-users@python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] setting up mailman
Mike Wharton wrote:
I am a total newbie when it comes to linix and am learning as I go so I may
not have fully understood your suggestion. I typed these into the command
line in the webmin interface on my server.
That's the problem. Sorry I wasn't more specific about what to do.
Here's another try:
At the shell (command line) prompt, type 'python' and see the following
where '$' represents the shell prompt to which you're typing:
$ python
Python 2.4.1 (#1, May 27 2005, 18:02:40) [GCC 3.3.3 (cygwin special)] on
cygwin Type help, copyright, credits or license for more
information.
The ' ' is the interactive prompt from Python. The other stuff is
from Python and probably won't be exactly the same.
then type x = raw_input('Prompt: ') in response to the prompt and it
should look like
x = raw_input('Prompt: ')
Prompt:
at that point. Type answer (followed by enter) and you should get
another ' ' prompt to which you type print x.
If you are not seeing the ' ' prompt, or you see it, but it is
immediately followed by another shell prompt without your typing
anything, there is some issue in the shell or the invocation of python
such all input requests are receiving an end_of_file 'automatic
response.
This could be caused for example by 'python' being aliased in your
shell to 'python /dev/null', although I have no idea why that would
be. You can type 'alias' at a shell prompt to see all the command
aliases.
--
Mark Sapiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
--
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Bounce message confusion
Robin Rowe wrote: According to our ISP Hostforweb.com, the mail backlog is supposed to catch up later. I think that's not happening. Haven't researched MTA issues myself yet. Do you know what docs I should read on that? It depends on what the MTA is and how it's configured, and I don't know much anyway. I suspect that the MTA is actually refusing the excess recipients and Mailman is informed during the sending process. Otherwise, the MTA would be accepting all recipients and just delaying delivery to some. Mailman's 'smtp' and 'smtp-failure' logs would have more info. So too would the member disabled bounce notification you receive. I know you can't see the logs (maybe you can convince the ISP to look), but what do the notices say? The MTA should be returning a status code with the refusal. If it's a 500 series code other than 552. it will be treated as a bounce. If it is 552 or a 400 series code, Mailman will retry delivery later. Did you receive a bounce action notification for the second unsubscribe? If this happened, it's a bug. I don't know. It happened before I was monitoring closedly. The real issue is that Mailman sends to the same list in the same order each time, so if the host's MTA bounces all but the first 500 recips, those at the end of the list will never get mail and will always be bouncing. This is what needs to be fixed with the host. We're trying, but my ISP doesn't seem to understand what's wrong. It's frustrating that I can't tell what's happening firsthand. Is there a way I can add an email address of my own that will definitely be at the end of the send list and therefore get the bounce? For instance, are mailman emails sent alphabetical by address that I could add a [EMAIL PROTECTED] address that would be sure to get sent last? No. You can't do this. The recipient list is in a 'hash table' order which is subsequently grouped into bins by top level domain. bin 1 contains all .com, bin 2 - all .net and .org, bin 3 - all .edu, .us and .ca, and bin 0 - all the rest. These bins are also processed in a hashed order, so you can't make an arbitrary address be at the end. -- Mark Sapiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] setting up mailman
Mike Wharton wrote: OK... thanks for spelling that out for a newbie like me... I continued to get nothing in the Command Shell of webmin so I used telnet to telnet to the server and it all worked as expected in the shell there. I must be a problem with webmin (or maybe webmin is not meant to be used in this way...) Yes, it seems like you can't run interactive commands via Webmin. Anyway, I got all the expected results... the 'print x' resulted in answer What does this suggest to you? Should I try to run the required commands for mailman in the telnet session rather than from the command shell in webmin? Yes. As long as you can login via telnet as a user (mailman ?) with the required access, that would be the way to run the bin/* tools, or you may be able to run them via Webmin by including all required arguments on the command line, so no prompting occurs. E.g., bin/newlist list_name owner_email list_pw -- Mark Sapiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Bounce message confusion
Mark, I know you can't see the logs (maybe you can convince the ISP to look), but what do the notices say? I got 11 messages like this today. All timestamped 7:00 AM: Subject: ScreenplayLab unsubscribe notification From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 7:00 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] email addrees has been removed from ScreenplayLab. where email address is a subscriber's address, mostly from yahoo, hotmail, or aol. The MTA should be returning a status code with the refusal. If it's a 500 series code other than 552. it will be treated as a bounce. If it is 552 or a 400 series code, Mailman will retry delivery later. Thanks, will look for those the next time I send out a post. There's no diagnostic # in the unsubscribe messages. I don't have any earlier messages because I unknowingly had it pointed to an invalid email address. No. You can't do this. The recipient list is in a 'hash table' order which is subsequently grouped into bins by top level domain. bin 1 contains all .com, bin 2 - all .net and .org, bin 3 - all .edu, .us and .ca, and bin 0 - all the rest. These bins are also processed in a hashed order, so you can't make an arbitrary address be at the end. Both the bins and their contents are processed in hash order? Why wouldn't the bins be processed sequentially? Thank you, Robin -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Bounce message confusion
Robin Rowe wrote: I got 11 messages like this today. All timestamped 7:00 AM: Is your Mailman server in a different time zone? The standard cron runs cron/disabled at 9:00 a.m. This is the script that sends warnings and does unsubscribes. Subject: ScreenplayLab unsubscribe notification From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 7:00 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] email addrees has been removed from ScreenplayLab. where email address is a subscriber's address, mostly from yahoo, hotmail, or aol. Yes. These messages do not include a bounce message. The occur because the last warning was sent bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval days ago, and the member still hasn't visited her options page and re-enabled delivery. The message you need to look at is the notification that the member has been disabled due to bounces. That contains the triggering bounce. The MTA should be returning a status code with the refusal. If it's a 500 series code other than 552. it will be treated as a bounce. If it is 552 or a 400 series code, Mailman will retry delivery later. Thanks, will look for those the next time I send out a post. There's no diagnostic # in the unsubscribe messages. I don't have any earlier messages because I unknowingly had it pointed to an invalid email address. No. You can't do this. The recipient list is in a 'hash table' order which is subsequently grouped into bins by top level domain. bin 1 contains all .com, bin 2 - all .net and .org, bin 3 - all .edu, .us and .ca, and bin 0 - all the rest. These bins are also processed in a hashed order, so you can't make an arbitrary address be at the end. Both the bins and their contents are processed in hash order? Why wouldn't the bins be processed sequentially? Because both the member lists and the bins are Python dictionaries (actually the members are a simple list at this point, but they were retrieved from a dictionary) which are data structures relating values and keys and the actual storage of key-value pairs is hashed by key. The dictionaries are processed sequentially by location, but because the keys are stored by hash, the retrieved keys are in hash sequence, not in key sequence. -- Mark Sapiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] join list - receive digest instead of regular viaemail
Dave B wrote: I have a list set up where the default for joining is Regular. People sign up via a php form on our website that then emails to [EMAIL PROTECTED]. I need to give them the option of receiving Regular or Digest in this form. Is there a way via email to join them to the Digest even though Regular is the default? Send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subscribe command in the subject subscribe initial_user_password digest The second argument is literally 'digest'. A password must be included or the subscription will be Regular per default and the password will be 'digest'. If the mail is 'From:' the subscribee, that's all you need. If not you can add [EMAIL PROTECTED] as a third argument to the subscribe command to specify the address. -- Mark Sapiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Export Subscribers
Eric Sangalang wrote: How would I export my subscribers from my lists. I have 85 lists. http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Amail.python.org+inurl%3Ausers%2F2005+export+members gives several relevant hits on the first page. -- Mark Sapiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
