Re: [Mailman-Users] Add PayPal to DNs publishing DMARC p=reject
Peter Shute writes: Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: The DMARC WG advocates putting list-post in From in place of a DMARC p=reject address. I advocate accepting their advice for stock Mailman, and avoiding other non-conforming workarounds until the market demands them. If it gets noisy, feel free to cave in faster than you did on Reply-To munging.wink / Can you explain that for the uneducated, please? Ouch! Sorry for the tech talk, often it's a useful habit, but not always. What do you mean by list-post? Is that the list address? There are several addresses that Mailman uses that might plausibly be called the list address. The one you are thinking of is often called List-Post because there is a header, hidden by most mail clients, by that name, to allow mail clients to automatically recognize the posting address (some provide a separate command for reply-to-list). It is the address where members send posts. But there's also the list owner's address (one might think of that as headquarters, and therefore the list address). -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] MM-2.1.15: Small bug regarding the request forgery check
Hi everyone, I had this issue with MM 2.1.16 and the listname/members?start=(email) URL: it would display the message Error: The form lifetime has expired. (request forgery check) at the top of the page. Dug in my archives and found this reference: On Sun, Nov 11, 2012 at 7:09 PM, Odhiambo Washington odhia...@gmail.comwrote: Error: The form lifetime has expired. (request forgery check) I found and fixed this several days ago. See http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/2.1/revision/1366 . My problem was fixed by adding the parameter 'start' to the list of safe params on hte very same line of Cgi/admin.py -- Fil -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Add PayPal to DNs publishing DMARC p=reject
On 7 May 2014, at 4:07 pm, Stephen J. Turnbull step...@xemacs.org wrote: Peter Shute writes: Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: The DMARC WG advocates putting list-post in From in place of a DMARC p=reject address. I advocate accepting their advice for stock Mailman, and avoiding other non-conforming workarounds until the market demands them. If it gets noisy, feel free to cave in faster than you did on Reply-To munging.wink / Can you explain that for the uneducated, please? Ouch! Sorry for the tech talk, often it's a useful habit, but not always. What do you mean by list-post? Is that the list address? There are several addresses that Mailman uses that might plausibly be called the list address. The one you are thinking of is often called List-Post because there is a header, hidden by most mail clients, by that name, to allow mail clients to automatically recognize the posting address (some provide a separate command for reply-to-list). It is the address where members send posts. But there's also the list owner's address (one might think of that as headquarters, and therefore the list address) Thanks, I understand now. If the result of this is that replies go to everyone on the list, this is something we don't want for our list. Private replies becoming public means trouble, and we have enough of it already when people Reply All by accident. We've been getting by rejecting then manually forwarding yahoo and aol emails to the list. At least then accidental replies only come to us instead of everyone, and there's an obvious cue for the senders to get new addresses. Peter Shute -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] inn gateway
Le 06/05/2014 20:30, Mark Sapiro a écrit : was written immediately after that message was queued by gate_news in Mailman's incoming queue, so it was delivered to the list. I don't understand what happened really, because the messages where *archived* but not délivered to the list!! as the newsgroup was nearly empty, I could use m.usenet_watermark = 0 and this seems to have solved the problem some notes about it here: http://dodin.info/wiki/index.php?n=Doc.Mailman#toc13 thanks -- http://www.dodin.org -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Add PayPal to DNs publishing DMARC p=reject
Peter Shute writes: Thanks, I understand now. If the result of this is that replies go to everyone on the list, this is something we don't want for our list. Private replies becoming public means trouble, and we have enough of it already when people Reply All by accident. In that case, in Mailman 2.1.18-1, you probably get the best of all worlds by setting 'from_is_list' to 'Munge From' which puts the list in From, deleting any other addresses from From (thus disabling DMARC), and then puts the poster in Reply-To, 'reply_to_list' to 'Poster' which leaves the Reply-To header as it finds it. Finally, set 'personalize' to 'Full Personalization' which puts the recipient in To. The first two are on the General Options page, the last on the Nondigest Options page. The rules for these options are complicated, but if I've thought correctly about this, in most cases the header of the post as distributed to subscribers will say To: each-subscriber@home From: the-list@your-org Reply-To: the-poster@home Although the-list is *visible* in From, conforming mail clients will *not* pay attention to it (the rules say Reply-To takes precedence over From as the author's address), and even a Reply All will produce a message addressed as To: the-poster@home From: each-subscriber@home In order to also CC the list, the replying subscriber would have to deliberately copy/paste the list address into To, Cc, or Bcc. This depends on the replying subscriber's mail program, so there are no guarantees, but it seems very unlikely to me that any of your subscribers will inadvertantly CC the list with that configuration. The only downsides are that (1) the list appears to claims to be authoring all the posts, and send each privately to each subscriber (but I wouldn't be surprised if few subscribers notice more than something changed) and (2) full personalization uses more resources, potentially a lot more. On the other hand, with reasonably modern equipment and say 5 lists each with 500 subscribers and 10 posts each per day, the server will literally spend more time waiting for the next post than it does delivering them. Network bandwidth is a more important consideration, because if you have many subscribers at one domain, you can tell that domain to deliver to a long list of those subscribers, and then send the message once. But if you personalize, then each message is (slightly) different, and must be sent separately. If you want advice about resource usage in your situation, don't hesitate to ask here. I have no experience with that configuration, but I suspect Mark has the numbers on tap, and I'm sure many of our lurkers do. Hope this helps, Steve -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] new users added to custom MemberAdaptor don't get emails
On 2014-05-03 23:55, Mark Sapiro wrote: I can't say more about what to do without actually seeing your MemberAdaptor, however you might look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/558106 for an alternative. That was actually my starting point to develop my MemberAdapter. I did not use it directly because the LDAP server might be down sometimes and I still wanted mails to be delivered. I did not want to try LDAP replication, partly because it seems complicated and partly because I do not want the LDAP database on the webserver (even if the login passwords are hashed). OK, I took a quick look at your stuff from http://sourceforge.net/projects/ldapsync/files/. I think your issue is you rely on extend.py to instantiate FileMemberships and reload the member data when the list is instantiated. I suspect your Mailman is 2.1.14 or older which maintains a list cache in the qrunners so the list gets instantiated and cached and further references to the list object retrieve it from the cache and update it as needed, but it is never again actually instantiated so extend.py is never called again. You are right, it is mailman 2.1.13-5, I am running a debian server. After upgrading to debian wheezy with mailman 2.1.15-1, the problem seems fixed. Thanks. regards, Viktor P.S: It is not wise to register to a mailing list using the address of another mailing list. I actually replied a few days ago, but I used 'reply to all' and that only send an e-mail to myself and the other administrator. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] MM-2.1.15: Small bug regarding the request forgery check
On 05/06/2014 11:44 PM, Fil wrote: Hi everyone, I had this issue with MM 2.1.16 and the listname/members?start=(email) URL: it would display the message Error: The form lifetime has expired. (request forgery check) at the top of the page. And what generates that URL? Do you have a local mod for this? I don't see where in the admin UI such a URL is generated or recognized. -- Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Add PayPal to DNs publishing DMARC p=reject
On May 7, 2014, at 8:59 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull step...@xemacs.org wrote: which leaves the Reply-To header as it finds it. Finally, set 'personalize' to 'Full Personalization' which puts the recipient in To. The first two are on the General Options page, the last on the Nondigest Options page. Is it possible the ‘personalize’ option moved elsewhere in 2.1.18-1? I’ve just updated to that version and don’t see it on the Nondigest Options page. Thank you for these suggestions. Rob -- Rob Lingelbach http://rob.colorist.org -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] new users added to custom MemberAdaptor don't get emails
On 05/07/2014 07:15 AM, Viktor wrote: You are right, it is mailman 2.1.13-5, I am running a debian server. After upgrading to debian wheezy with mailman 2.1.15-1, the problem seems fixed. Good. P.S: It is not wise to register to a mailing list using the address of another mailing list. I actually replied a few days ago, but I used 'reply to all' and that only send an e-mail to myself and the other administrator. It should be OK. Whatever reply issue you had must have been due to some idiosyncrasy in your MUA (Mail client). -- Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Add PayPal to DNs publishing DMARC p=reject
Rob Lingelbach writes: Is it possible the ‘personalize’ option moved elsewhere in 2.1.18-1? I’ve just updated to that version and don’t see it on the Nondigest Options page. Sorry, I haven't updated to 2.1.18-1 yet, I'm reading source and missed a crucial qualification at the top of the suite. Because personalization can consume a lot of resources, the site admin needs to enable personalization with OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION in mm_cfg.py, then it will show up on the admin site. Steve -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Add PayPal to DNs publishing DMARC p=reject
On May 7, 2014, at 9:56 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull step...@xemacs.org wrote: Because personalization can consume a lot of resources, the site admin needs to enable personalization with OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION in mm_cfg.py, then it will show up on the admin site. Thanks. Impressive. -- Rob Lingelbach http://rob.colorist.org -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] DMARC and Reply-To lines with from_is_list munging.
On 5/7/14, 12:08 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: What is the intent of the restriction? Are you trying to get the users to use reply to author by punishing them with a black hole if they don't, and then set Reply-To to list-post so that nobody ever gets a personal reply? Or is this intended to prevent people from including 3rd parties in the OP (of course, you can't -- they can always BCC and you'll never know)? What my list owners want out of my lists, and what rules they decide on for their lists, is not my business. By extension, it is not yours. I provide them email lists, they ask for things that seem reasonable to me. When those things suddenly are yanked away, they complain, and I'm left holding the bag of trying to answer why. Your attempt to explain away the request by making it sound like some kind of absurd policy is disingenuous at best. I suppose your users would get upset if you used dmarc_moderation_action = 'Wrap Message' instead of whichever_option = 'Mung From'? Some use mobile devices. So there's the answer to that question. Given Mark's reply, probably you'll need use a custom Handler, whatever the requirements. Is that acceptable (ie, you have the necessary accesses)? N.B. It's possible to restrict use of Handlers to particular lists by giving them list-specific pipelines. I'm just trying to see if there are better options out there. This DMARC stuff is ridiculous. The providers aren't being blamed for this, we (the mailing-list providers) are. Doesn't help that the users on services responsible for the DMARC p=reject stuff aren't getting the bounces, it's other people whose ISPs are respecting it who are, and they're the ones who get bounced off of lists because it's *their* bounce score that gets increased. It's ridiculous. And I want to know why, exactly, Yahoo Groups isn't being affected by this. They're not doing the via YahooGroup bit, or wrapping their mails. :-\ I'm betting they're not even honoring the DMARC from other providers. *sigh* I hate this frustration. Best, --Glenn -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Q : Is there a possibility to localize / customize the standard Mailman lists home page / UI look ?
Mark Sapiro Wed, 30 Apr 2014 08:22:28 -0700 On 04/30/2014 04:35 AM, Jacques Setton wrote: Currently, when choosing a specific local language (French in our case) for Mailman' lists user interface, I have noticed that the standard home page (for example the one depicted by 'lists.domain.org/mailman/listinfo') remains in the English language. Would there be a possibility to localize that page as well ? Set DEFAULT_SERVER_LANGUAGE = 'fr' in mm_cfg.py. Thanks for this hint. After applying such setting, the default home page was successfully displayed in the French language. While being on this topic, I'd like also to know if it is possible to customize the general look feel of the display UI say, at the minimum, eventually replace or add a custom logo at the level of the Mailman/Python logos appearing at the bottom of each page ? See Mailman/htmlformat.py, in particular the section beginning with # Logo constants I did look at the 'htmlformat.py' and was able to tailor it by adding the logo reference of the organization which will be using the operational Mailman system. Thanks again for this very useful guidance in this respect ! - - - - Jacques Setton mailto:jset...@waycast.com jset...@waycast.com -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Add PayPal to DNs publishing DMARC p=reject
On 7 May 2014, at 11:59 pm, Stephen J. Turnbull step...@xemacs.org wrote: Peter Shute writes: Thanks, I understand now. If the result of this is that replies go to everyone on the list, this is something we don't want for our list. Private replies becoming public means trouble, and we have enough of it already when people Reply All by accident. In that case, in Mailman 2.1.18-1, you probably get the best of all worlds by setting 'from_is_list' to 'Munge From' which puts the list in From, deleting any other addresses from From (thus disabling DMARC), and then puts the poster in Reply-To, 'reply_to_list' to 'Poster' which leaves the Reply-To header as it finds it. Finally, set 'personalize' to 'Full Personalization' which puts the recipient in To. The first two are on the General Options page, the last on the Nondigest Options page. The rules for these options are complicated, but if I've thought correctly about this, in most cases the header of the post as distributed to subscribers will say To: each-subscriber@home From: the-list@your-org Reply-To: the-poster@home Although the-list is *visible* in From, conforming mail clients will *not* pay attention to it (the rules say Reply-To takes precedence over From as the author's address), and even a Reply All will produce a message addressed as To: the-poster@home From: each-subscriber@home In order to also CC the list, the replying subscriber would have to deliberately copy/paste the list address into To, Cc, or Bcc. This depends on the replying subscriber's mail program, so there are no guarantees, but it seems very unlikely to me that any of your subscribers will inadvertantly CC the list with that configuration. This fixes the accidental private reply to the list problem, but makes it hard to reply to the list, which is what our members normally want to do. The list would probably stop functioning for lack of public discussion. Am I correct in believing that there is now an option to have these modified behaviours only apply to messages from p=reject senders? Maybe that's a decent compromise, as the rest of the messages can be treated normally, and the p=reject senders will be punished for not getting new addresses by not having their questions discussed by the whole group. So long as gmail and hotmail don't start doing it too, as then a majority of our members will be affected (and will consider they have nowhere left to go). So does this mean that any solution is going to be a choice between ease of replying to the list and ease of accidental replying to the list? Peter Shute -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mirror mailing list with web forum
From: t...@yingtong.co.uk Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 19:46:03 +0100 I have it working with Fudforum and although the fudforum integration was (to me) poorly documented I got it working and has been stable / rock solid for a couple of years now. It would be nice to get things like membership linked between the two and to more easily identify forum posters (when their mail hits the list) but that is just a comment not a request (unless someone has worked it out!) I think I have got Mailman and FUDforum to work well together by writing two FUDforum plugins. One uses Mailman’s email/password list for logins to the forum (calling, using php’s shell_exec() command, two separate withlist scripts based on the example in the withlist documentation). The other unsets a user’s Mailman moderation bit (by calling Mark Sapiro’s set_mod withlist script) just before the user’s first post is approved via FUDforum. I’ll post the plugins to the FUDforum website when I’m finished, but in the meantime I’d be very grateful for comments on the Mailman withlist scripts I’ve used: (a) will they still work when I upgrade to 2.1.18-1? and (b) is there a better way of doing it? Thanks in advance, and feel free to ask for further information! #! /path/to/bin/python from Mailman.Errors import NotAMemberError def get_name(mlist, member): try: print '%s' % (mlist.getMemberName(member)) except NotAMemberError: print 'No address matched:', member #! /path/to/bin/python from Mailman.Errors import NotAMemberError def get_password(mlist, member): try: print '%s' % (mlist.getMemberPassword(member)) except NotAMemberError: print 'No address matched:', member -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] DMARC and Reply-To lines with from_is_list munging.
On 05/07/2014 12:45 PM, Glenn Sieb wrote: It's ridiculous. And I want to know why, exactly, Yahoo Groups isn't being affected by this. They're not doing the via YahooGroup bit, or wrapping their mails. :-\ I'm betting they're not even honoring the DMARC from other providers. Yahoo groups doesn't have problems with mail From: yahoo.com because they send the mail with envelope from ...@returns.groups.yahoo.com which passes SPF and aligns with the domain in From:, but the interesting question is what do they do with a post From: aol.com. I haven't had time to test that yet. Note that google groups does the same From: munging that Mailman does, and only for From: domains that publish DMARC p=reject. *sigh* I hate this frustration. So do we all. The Mailman development community resents as much as anyone being forced into this here's what *we're* doing, now *you* have to figure out how to deal with it bind, but that's where we are. We are trying to talk with DMARC proponents, and we're trying to figure out how to mitigate the effects with the least possible disruption to users and to long term, established standards and practices. -- Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Add PayPal to DNs publishing DMARC p=reject
On 05/07/2014 01:34 PM, Peter Shute wrote: Am I correct in believing that there is now an option to have these modified behaviours only apply to messages from p=reject senders? Yes. At least in the latest release (2.1.18-1), there is dmarc_moderation_action which selects an action to apply only to messages From: domains that publish DMARC p=reject or optionally p=quarantine policies. -- Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] DMARC and Reply-To lines with from_is_list munging.
On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 6:47 PM, Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.net wrote: We are trying to talk with DMARC proponents, You won't be successful until those people themselves figure out what they are doing (and then they agree to quit using the Internet as a testbed) :-) Honestly, they (one of the principal DMARC spec authors works for Yahoo) ignored their own advice, imagine how well that would go over in some other industries. -Jim P. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mirror mailing list with web forum
On 05/07/2014 03:41 PM, Jon 1234 wrote: I’d be very grateful for comments on the Mailman withlist scripts I’ve used: (a) will they still work when I upgrade to 2.1.18-1? and (b) is there a better way of doing it? Thanks in advance, and feel free to ask for further information! #! /path/to/bin/python from Mailman.Errors import NotAMemberError def get_name(mlist, member): try: print '%s' % (mlist.getMemberName(member)) except NotAMemberError: print 'No address matched:', member #! /path/to/bin/python from Mailman.Errors import NotAMemberError def get_password(mlist, member): try: print '%s' % (mlist.getMemberPassword(member)) except NotAMemberError: print 'No address matched:', member I'll assume that all the spacing and indentation anomalies are due to mangling by your email client and try to ignore them, so your question boils down to Do the list methods getMemberName(member) and getMemberPassword(member) work the same in 2.1.18-1 and throw the same NotAMemberError exception if member is not a member? The answer is an unequivocal Yes. Note that the shebang line #! /path/to/bin/python is unnecessary since these can't and don't run standalone. On the other hand, it is a bit of overkill to do these as withlist scripts because of the withlist setup and takedown. You could, e.g., do something like #! /path/to/bin/python import sys import paths from Mailman import MailList from Mailman.Errors import MMUnknownListError, NotAMemberError try: mlist = MailList.MailList(sys.argv[1]) except MMUnknownListError: print 'No such list: %s' % sys.argv[1] sys.exit(1) try: print mlist.getMemberName(sys.argv[2]) except NotAMemberError: print 'No address matched: %s' % member as a standalone script to be run as /path/to/mailman/bin/get_name listname memberaddress and similarly for the password. Note this would need to be run from Mailman's bin/ directory for import paths to work and get all the other paths. -- Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mirror mailing list with web forum
On 05/07/2014 04:50 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: On the other hand, it is a bit of overkill to do these as withlist scripts because of the withlist setup and takedown. You could, e.g., do something like #! /path/to/bin/python import sys import paths from Mailman import MailList from Mailman.Errors import MMUnknownListError, NotAMemberError try: mlist = MailList.MailList(sys.argv[1]) except MMUnknownListError: print 'No such list: %s' % sys.argv[1] sys.exit(1) try: print mlist.getMemberName(sys.argv[2]) except NotAMemberError: print 'No address matched: %s' % member There are two errors in the above. The 7th line should be mlist = MailList.MailList(sys.argv[1], lock=False) and the last line should be print 'No address matched: %s' % sys.argv[2] -- Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Add PayPal to DNs publishing DMARC p=reject
Mark Sapiro wrote: Am I correct in believing that there is now an option to have these modified behaviours only apply to messages from p=reject senders? Yes. At least in the latest release (2.1.18-1), there is dmarc_moderation_action which selects an action to apply only to messages From: domains that publish DMARC p=reject or optionally p=quarantine policies. If it means that Reply vs Reply All work differently for list messages from different domains, will it only lead to users becoming hopelessly confused? Is there anyone who's already using this who could report on the reactions from users? Peter Shute -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] DMARC and Reply-To lines with from_is_list munging.
Glenn Sieb writes: What my list owners want out of my lists, and what rules they decide on for their lists, is not my business. By extension, it is not yours. If you just want to vent, please say so. I thought you were asking for help. If you want help, then the questions I asked are essential to doing a good job for your list owners. There are two reasons for that. (1) Users often request a feature that they believe accomplishes a certain goal, but it does not. All too often implementing that feature does not satisfy their need, with attendant frustration all around. Letting the developer design the feature to achieve the goal often (although not always) does a better job of satisfying needs. (2) Often either the current implementation of the program or the nature of the world means that not all needs can be satisfied, and a compromise must be suggested. Knowing the goals (reasons why) can help the designer suggest a better (accomplishes more goals more fully) or more palatable (emphasizes more important goals) compromise. See my dialog with Peter Shute for an example of how such design can succeed. It's rare that we get 95%[1] success that way because of (2), but my lack of understanding of his lists' requirements displayed at the start is the usual case. I'm just trying to see if there are better options out there. And I'm just trying to understand what better means to you and your list owners and subscribers. Footnotes: [1] Not yet 100% success because of the increased resource requirement, which can be a blocker. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] DMARC and Reply-To lines with from_is_list munging.
Jim Popovitch writes: On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 6:47 PM, Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.net wrote: We are trying to talk with DMARC proponents, You won't be successful until those people themselves figure out what they are doing That's true, but those folks (or, more accurately, their bosses) have their shorts in a knot over the recent attacks. I don't have a lot of sympathy for the corporations which have a long history of half-baked implementations, but our best bet is to help them figure it out. (and then they agree to quit using the Internet as a testbed) :-) But there is no other. I can't really blame them for eventually going live, I just wish they tried harder to work and play well with others. Honestly, they (one of the principal DMARC spec authors works for Yahoo) ignored their own advice, imagine how well that would go over in some other industries. Happens all the time. Ford Pinto gas tanks, space shuttle O-rings, the list goes on. Let's have some perspective: nobody died this time. And I doubt the principal authors ignored their own advice; some PHB did it. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Add PayPal to DNs publishing DMARC p=reject
Peter Shute writes: So does this mean that any solution is going to be a choice between ease of replying to the list and ease of accidental replying to the list? Yes, and that's an unsolvable problem. Some replies should be public, some should be private, and only the user can know which is which. We can bias things one way or the other, but we can't really do much on the list side to improve accuracy of addressing. MUAs could help a bit more than they do, but they're just programs, too. In the end, you have to assume the user knows what she's doing, and that isn't always true. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Add PayPal to DNs publishing DMARC p=reject
Peter Shute writes: If it means that Reply vs Reply All work differently for list messages from different domains, It does. will it only lead to users becoming hopelessly confused? Is there anyone who's already using this who could report on the reactions from users? Good question. Anybody? -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Add PayPal to DNs publishing DMARC p=reject
My experience is that for most lists, the members are chronically confused about nearly everything having to do with addressing. Since very few list members are going to be subscribed from different ISPs at the same time (and those are apt to be the most expert) I don't expect this change (when I can upgrade, I'm hostage to my ISP's cPanel support) will create any *additional* confusion in the minds of the easily confused. Keith Bierman khb...@gmail.com kbiermank AIM 303 997 2749 On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 8:59 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull step...@xemacs.orgwrote: Peter Shute writes: If it means that Reply vs Reply All work differently for list messages from different domains, It does. will it only lead to users becoming hopelessly confused? Is there anyone who's already using this who could report on the reactions from users? Good question. Anybody? -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/khbkhb%40gmail.com -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Add PayPal to DNs publishing DMARC p=reject
What Keith said. Either users are curious about this and will take the time to understand, or they throw up their hands and “Computers!” and they will do the minimum to get things working, which is how it was before. My hosting provider, Dreamhost, just upgraded from 2.1.14 to 2.1.17 mere hours ago. (Apparently weren’t willing to wait to do testing on 2.1.18-1.) So we will squint thoughtfully at the monitor, nod almost imperceptibly, pick a setting which is the least egregious to fix this problem, and then have some scotch. -Conrad On May 7, 2014, at 11:05 PM, Keith Bierman khb...@gmail.com wrote: My experience is that for most lists, the members are chronically confused about nearly everything having to do with addressing. Since very few list members are going to be subscribed from different ISPs at the same time (and those are apt to be the most expert) I don't expect this change (when I can upgrade, I'm hostage to my ISP's cPanel support) will create any *additional* confusion in the minds of the easily confused. Keith Bierman khb...@gmail.com kbiermank AIM 303 997 2749 On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 8:59 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull step...@xemacs.orgwrote: Peter Shute writes: If it means that Reply vs Reply All work differently for list messages from different domains, It does. will it only lead to users becoming hopelessly confused? Is there anyone who's already using this who could report on the reactions from users? Good question. Anybody? -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/khbkhb%40gmail.com -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/cgtyoder%40alum.mit.edu -- Suspicion breeds confidence. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Add PayPal to DNs publishing DMARC p=reject
On 05/07/2014 05:41 PM, Peter Shute wrote: If it means that Reply vs Reply All work differently for list messages from different domains, will it only lead to users becoming hopelessly confused? Is there anyone who's already using this who could report on the reactions from users? It depends. If your MUA offers 'reply to list' that works in all cases to just reply to the list. Otherwise, if first_strip_reply-to is No and reply_goes_to_list is Poster, in the case of From: munging or wrapping, reply will go to the poster and the poster's original Reply-To: and reply-all will go to the list. This is slightly different from the un-munged/wrapped case in that if the poster had an original Reply-To: with a different address, the poster's From: will be included in 'reply', but basically it's unchanged in spirit - reply is to the poster and reply-all includes the list. In the other cases, it is similar except, e.g. if reply_goes_to_list is This list, simple reply will address the poster as well as the list, but in most cases, the poster is a list member and would have gotten it anyway. The intent is to make munged/wrapped behavior as close as possible to the un-munged/wrapped behavior except that exposing the poster's address takes priority. -- Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
