[Mailman-Users] post confirmations
This with mailman 2.1.39. And this in response to Gmail's utterly foolish and obnoxious "feature" of throwing away an incoming email that appears to be "from yourself" I regularly get inquiries about "how come my submission didn't get posted". Is it possible to generate some sort of "your message has been posted" confirmation reply? /Bernie\ Bernie Cosell ber...@fantasyfarm.com -- Too many people; too few sheep -- -- Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/ Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/ https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/
[Mailman-Users] mini-bug : actually unsubscribing doesn't clear the moderator request
This with 2.2.23 on some Linux server: the subject says it all. I know y'all
will
find it odd but when I get an unsubscribe request I sometimes [often? :o)] deal
with it directly and don't bother dealing with the moderator request. I had
hoped they would go away by themselves. I realize that the General option says
quite clearly "discard held messages..." but I'd prefer that that limit also
applied
to other "moderator requests"
/Bernie\
Bernie Cosell
ber...@fantasyfarm.com
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[Mailman-Users] Comcast problems
Beginning maybe a few days ago, Comcast is rejecting ALL mailing list email to
them. The error I'm getting is
: host mx1.comcast.net[96.114.157.80] said: 550 5.1.0
Invalid sender domain (in reply to MAIL FROM command)
I can't find the details of the MAIL FROM in the bounce message. The handling
of the message was:
Return-Path:
Received: from pdx1-mailman01.dreamhost.com
(pdx1-mailman01.dreamhost.com [IPv6:::1])
by pdx1-mailman01.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02F3E20460;
Sun, 29 Aug 2021 06:24:42 -0700 (PDT)
X-Original-To: g...@lists.ripplingwater.us
Delivered-To: gpa-ripplingwater...@pdx1-mailman01.dreamhost.com
and in the maze of headers there's
Action: failed
Status: 5.1.0
Remote-MTA: dns; mx1.comcast.net
Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 550 5.1.0 Invalid sender domain
But nothing I could find in the message had the SMTP exchange so I could see
what the MAILFROM was [some SMTP servers put in a header line for the MAIL
FROM, but I guess not comcast]
I'm assuming that the MAIL FROM was the mailman server and I don't
understand why the mail from should suddenly be a problem -- it's happened on
two different domains of mine so I *THINK* all the damn DNS nonsense is right,
but I can't guess. I just wanted to check what the MAIL FROM would be before
I
go and get a ticket asking the ISP why their domain has suddently become
"Invalid".
Comcast is such a pain to deal with ...:o) Any insights before I hit customer
support would be appreciated.. thanks
/Bernie\
Bernie Cosell
ber...@fantasyfarm.com
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[Mailman-Users] Setting a moderator password
I'm trying to set a moderator password for my list and I seem to be doing something wrong: I went into "Passwords" entered the moderator password both times and 'submitted' it and I get "Authorization failed" when I tried to use it. What did I forget to do? Do moderators log in on a different login screen than the normal one or something? Note that I don't need a "moderator" email address [we're preparing for moderators in emergency moderation] but I added one anyway and it didn't help /Bernie\ Bernie Cosell ber...@fantasyfarm.com -- Too many people; too few sheep -- -- Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/ Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/ https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/
[Mailman-Users] Re: blocking a hot/inappropriate topic
On 12 Jun 2020 at 12:40, Bernie Cosell wrote: > On 12 Jun 2020 at 9:28, Carl Zwanzig wrote: > > > On 6/12/2020 8:59 AM, Bernie Cosell wrote: > > > 1) is there a way to temporarily disable a mailing list short of > > removing the alias > > > that points to it? I was thinking that perhaps I could've put in > a > > "sender filter" > > > that rejected everyone or something like that. > > > > You can put it on "emergency moderation", that moderates -everyone-. > The > > messages will still appear in the mod queue, but you can delete them > > from there. > > That's a great idea -- I didn't know it was there. It'll be a huge > hassle for me but > better than having the list dead. It'd still be nice to be able to "ban" a particular subject /Bernie\ Bernie Cosell ber...@fantasyfarm.com -- Too many people; too few sheep -- -- Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/ Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/ https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/
[Mailman-Users] Re: blocking a hot/inappropriate topic
On 12 Jun 2020 at 9:28, Carl Zwanzig wrote: > On 6/12/2020 8:59 AM, Bernie Cosell wrote: > > 1) is there a way to temporarily disable a mailing list short of > removing the alias > > that points to it? I was thinking that perhaps I could've put in a > "sender filter" > > that rejected everyone or something like that. > > You can put it on "emergency moderation", that moderates -everyone-. The > messages will still appear in the mod queue, but you can delete them > from there. That's a great idea -- I didn't know it was there. It'll be a huge hassle for me but better than having the list dead. thanks! /Bernie\ Bernie Cosell ber...@fantasyfarm.com -- Too many people; too few sheep -- -- Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/ Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/ https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/
[Mailman-Users] blocking a hot/inappropriate topic
One mailing list I run has recently been plagued with a very heated, long,
inappropriate, and off-topic discussion. The people in charge of the mailing
list
have asked me to temporarily turn it off [and I have]. Two questions:
1) is there a way to temporarily disable a mailing list short of removing the
alias
that points to it? I was thinking that perhaps I could've put in a "sender
filter"
that rejected everyone or something like that.
2) is there a way to block a *single* topic.. I know that can be defeated but
it'll
stop the particular thread at least for while while the rest of the list can go
on.
Thanks! /bernie\
Bernie Cosell
ber...@fantasyfarm.com
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[Mailman-Users] multiple explicit reply addresses?
I don't want to break my lists, so I'll ask first..:o)Does mailman do the right thing if I want explicit replies to go to two addresses? It seems very explicit that the explicit reply address is singular.. would making it e...@x.com, e...@y.com work? /Bernie\ Bernie Cosell ber...@fantasyfarm.com -- Too many people; too few sheep -- -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] user unsubscribe
On 3 Nov 2019 at 8:10, Brian Carpenter wrote:
> Did you check to see if notifications were enabled on your bounce
> processing page? You can contact your hosting provider to have them look
> into their mail logs to see why those email addresses are bouncing list
> messages.
Yup -- I have it set to notify me when the bounce-score is incremented and I
know that I get a different message when the bounce score hits its limit.
I doubt I'll get any help from the hosting provider. But I can ask. They
handle
thousands of email lists and judging by how out of date their version of
mailman
is, prolly not very expert in the python/logs stuff... we'll see...
Thanks! /bernie\
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Re: [Mailman-Users] user unsubscribe
On 2 Nov 2019 at 21:23, Mark Sapiro wrote: > On 11/2/19 5:03 PM, Bernie Cosell wrote: > > ... Here's the > > message i got.. no reason why: > > > > Subject: NPL-Folk unsubscribe notification > > From: mailman-boun...@lists.puzzlers.org > > To: npl-folk-ow...@lists.puzzlers.org > > Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2019 22:24:21 -0700 > > Sender: "NPL-Folk" > > > > dear...@hotmail.com has been removed from NPL-Folk. > > > This is the generic unsubscribe notification from the list's > .ApprovedDeleteMember method. Starting with Mailman 2.1.27, it also > reported the source of the unsubscribe. The source is reported in the > entry in Mailman's subscribe log if you have access to that. Nope. I have no access to that and I just got another "has been removed" message this morning. Is there any way for a non-privileged mailman admin to figure out why? I didn't get any "bounce score incremented" messages for either unsubscribe. /Bernie\ Bernie Cosell ber...@fantasyfarm.com -- Too many people; too few sheep -- -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] user unsubscribe
i received a notification that one of the users on my list was unsubscribed. I'm surprise because the configuration for the list specified that unsubscribes have to be approved, and this wasn't. How could that happen? /Bernie\ Bernie Cosell ber...@fantasyfarm.com -- Too many people; too few sheep -- -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] authorizing posts to a moderated list
I've discovered that putting someone in the "approved to post" in the
list config doesn't override the fact that the email is still MOD in the
members
list prevents them from posting. seems that it'd be more convenient to
have the configuration setting override the list member list. as it is,
as i authorize and deauthorize people i have to mess with both and that
feels like unnecessary work.
/b\
Bernie Cosell
bernie@fantasyfarm. com
— Too many people, too few sheep —
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[Mailman-Users] Changing non-member message
Is it possible [at least without hacking the python code] to change the default reject message that gets sent when a not-allowed member posts to a list. the default message is a terse "non-members are not allowed to post to this list", but that confuses a lot of people. they don't think of being on a mailing list as being an "member" of it. And several of my lists are associated with actual clubs and the club-members are confused and irritated to be called a "non member" [the problem is almost always a legit person posting from some different email address]. What I've done [by hand] is send a reject that says This is a closed list and posts from unsubscribed email addresses are not allowed. It'd be nice if I could configure that in, in place of the 'non member' default reject message. /Bernie\ Bernie Cosell ber...@fantasyfarm.com -- Too many people; too few sheep -- -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Bounce processing
On January 19, 2019 18:00:35 "Kenneth G. Gordon"
wrote:
Over the past several weeks, I have received many reports from Mailman
concerning too
many bounces from certain subscribers who are normally very active on one
of my forums.
All of these "Bounce Action Notification"'s appear to be coming from only a
very few ISPs,
the big one being AOL, although also verizon.com is another one. In the
past, gmail.com,
and hotmail.com have been a culprits.
Is there any way to prevent these people from being essentially kicked off
the forum until
AOL, among others, gets its act together?
it depends on the reason that you're getting the bounces. i get them all the
time. sometimes they're just bogus anomalous nonsense {e, g a clearly
non-spam message rejected for "too much spam content} i just ignore
those - those people must know about the idiosyncrasies of their ISP and
by staying with them accept their foibles. ... BUT.. if the bounce is because
your host has been blacklisted or is otherwise banned, you need to contact
your isp pronto and get them started on getting themselves re-approved.
/Bernie\
Bernie Cosell
bernie@fantasyfarm. com
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[Mailman-Users] authorized to a moderated list
i have a list that only a few people are allowed to post to. I had done this
by
putting everyone on the list to "MOD" and put the handful of people authorized
to post into the OK addresses field on the general tab. It turns out that one
of the
authorized people is also ON the list, and I discovered that the MOD setting in
the membership list overrides the authorized field on the general tab.
I'd like to be able to manage the authorized posters separately from the
subscribed posters. Is there a way to do that? [my idea here is that it is
easy to
see all the 'authorized' addresses because they're in one place [on the general
tab]. Much easier than finding all of the non-MOD entries on the list and then
adding to it the unsubscribed-but -authorized addresses from the general tab.
Is there a way to do that?
/Bernie\
Bernie Cosell
ber...@fantasyfarm.com
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[Mailman-Users] DKIM
I have two questions about the DKIM/spf munging that mailman does.
First: when it replaces the 'from' with a munged address [replacing the name
with "name via thislist" does it stick the original email address somewhere in
the
message, so if a listmember wanted to reply to the original sender they'd be
able
to? I thought it did but I just looked through one and didn't see the poster's
original email. [actually, let me amend that: I see that his email addr is in
the 'cc'
field -- did mailman do that or did he?]
Second, I'm a bit shaky [to say the least..:o)] about how the DKIM stuff all
works.
I do have access to Unix shell account, so I can do dig and host and such. If
a
listmember asks me if "@randomserver.com" is OK to not-get-munged when it
posts to the list, what would I do?Thanks
/Bernie\
Bernie Cosell
ber...@fantasyfarm.com
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[Mailman-Users] mailman generated email
I'm corresponding with the sysops about those odd duplicated "pending
moderator requests" messages and the sysops are claiming that mailman, itself,
never sends messages, it only forwards them. I know that's not true but I
don't
know enough about the mechanics of mailman to make a definitive reply. His
latest message
With a discussion list, a message is not created by the list server.
The list server accepts an email sent to the list address, which
posts it for moderation approval, which then sends the email sent to
that list to all subscribed users of that list.
What's the definitive way to describe to him the [crontab?] mechanism that
generates the overnight "pending moder requests" message that mailman
generates. He doesn't even understand that with the messages I forwarded to
him for comparison were generated by mailman -- he just mentioned that each of
the two pending requests was a real user-sent message [of course true] but
doesn't see the forest [that that was mailman notification] for the trees [the
two
message currently pending]. ugh
/bernie\
Bernie Cosell
ber...@fantasyfarm.com
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[Mailman-Users] duplicate mod request waiting emails
Very curious! The second message was sent a few minutes after the first:
Subject: 1 NPL-Folk moderator request(s) waiting
From: npl-folk-boun...@lists.puzzlers.org
To: npl-folk-ow...@lists.puzzlers.org
Message-ID:
Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2018 19:16:52 -0700
Subject: 1 NPL-Folk moderator request(s) waiting
From: npl-folk-boun...@lists.puzzlers.org
To: npl-folk-ow...@lists.puzzlers.org
Message-ID:
Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2018 19:23:14 -0700
Completely separate, duplicate "waiting" emails!
/Bernie\
Bernie Cosell
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[Mailman-Users] duplicate pending requests
Every morning I get two identical copies of the "moderator requests waiting".
It
isn't a big deal but I'm wondering why. I first thought it was sending one
copy to
the owner and one copy to the moderator [I had me in as both], so I removed me
from moderator -- now there's no moderator and only the owner and still I get
two copies. Did I misconfigure something?
/b\
Bernie Cosell
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Re: [Mailman-Users] gmail
On 13 Sep 2018 at 10:35, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> Bernie Cosell writes:
>
> > I've gotten buried by 80 bounce messages, thanks to gmail's new
> > policy [that was, apparently, put into effect yesterday]. The
> > bounces say:
>
> Can you provide more information about this, or are you deducing a new
> policy from the sudden spate of bounces? I ask because
>
> > Please visit 421-4.7.0
> > https://support.google.com/mail/answer/81126#authentication for
> more
> > 421- 4.7.0 information.
> >
> > I looked at their 'answer' and mostly found it to be unhelpful.
>
> That's at least partly because it's bog-standard best-practice advice,
> and I see no evidence that anything in that document has changed
> recently.
Well, something changed between Thursday and Friday, because posts to the list
were fine and this one generated a bounce for every gmail member.
> 1. One (usually more for Google) of your list posts actually was spam
> or otherwise abusive.
I don't think that would get me an "authentication" complaint, would it?But
that hypothesis would make sense if through some oddity of google spam
detection they decided a perfectly legitimate list message was spam and so
bounced it. It certainly wasn't abusive [although it was a [civil] complaint].
Also, I realized after Joseph enlightened me/us why it took until Monday for
the
Friday-post to bounce: google, in their wisdom, has issued a "temporary try
again" error instead of a fatal [500] one. My service provider kept trying
for
three days and I got the bounces when their queue runner timed out the message.
I understood that the error message was mostly normal SPF/DKIM bafflegab,
but it appeared that none of the things it complained about were things under
my control and I face the question: did google change their policy on all
incoming email [easy for them to do!] or did my service provider break the DNS
stuff for just our domain [out of the thousands of domains they host]. I asked
here because i guessed the former was more likely [but I also submitted a
trouble
ticket to my service provider..:o)]
> 2. A group of your subscribers at Gmail took serious offense to
> something posted and reported to Gmail simultaneously.
Unlikely... I'm the "postmaster" for the list and they'd have complained to
me [as
they have in the past].
> 3. One or more users on another list served by your host did
> something remarkably abusive and the whole domain was marked as a
> bad/incompetent actor.
That is a possibility!! I left my last service provide [just a month ago!]
when it
had managed to get banned by aol, comcast, oneand1, mindspring.com,
netscape.net, optonline.net, roadrunner.com, verizon.net and a bunch of
others.
I would *hate* to have to be the tech at one of these
mega-domain-service-hosts.
They may have thousands of domains and who knows how many people passing
mail through them, and all it takes is a few bad actors to get their IP block
banned, and I know [having had to do this job at an ISP I worked at] it is
annoying and often difficult to get it fixed. [a credit where it is due: some
of the
RBL/blocking places allow you just to say "I'm the sysop at and I've fixed
the problem, please let me go" and they do. Others make it feel like they're
doing
you a huge favor to not blacklist you.
> 4. A DNS-related snafu made it look like your whole IP block was
> transferred to a group full of abusers, even though nothing bad
> has happened in your own IP.
That's a possiblity -- I've contacted the ISP {as i mentioned} and although
I've
heard nothing, the problem *seems* to have been a one-shot [subsequent posts to
the mialing list have not [yet] bounced from gmail] -- I'll know for sure in
another
two days...:o)].
> 1, 2, and 3 you can sometimes do something about, including getting in
> touch with Google, reporting that "this happened", and explaining why
> "it won't happen again" (in case 3, "not my list's fault"). Google is
> awfully big and may not care about you, but miracles do happen and 10
> minutes writing an email to them might work one. YMMV, of course.
Is there any way to do this? I have absolutely nothing to do with google [no
accounts, no mailbox there, no google-apps, no hangouts, etc] but even from the
google fanboys I correspond with I'm told that tech support is essentially
nonexistent. When I had a problem once, years ago, it took finding a friend
of a
friend who worked at google to email my question to..:o)
But enough on this, since it isn't a mailman problem [the only thing I kinda
wondered is if there were some setting, akin to the DMARC settings, that might
a
[Mailman-Users] gmail
I've gotten buried by 80 bounce messages, thanks to gmail's new policy [that
was,
apparently, put into effect yesterday]. The bounces say:
<@gmail.com>: host alt1.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com[74.125.129.26] said:
421-4.7.0 This message does not have authentication information or fails to
pass 421-4.7.0 authentication checks. To best protect our users from spam,
the 421-4.7.0 message has been blocked. Please visit 421-4.7.0
https://support.google.com/mail/answer/81126#authentication for more
421- 4.7.0 information. 128-v6si11952705iti.109 - gsmtp (in reply to end of
DATA command)
I looked at their 'answer' and mostly found it to be unhelpful. i certainly
can't get
any server anywhere to change their their system configuration, nor can I mess
with mailman [all suggestions about python-esque tweaks to mailman presume
that you have access to the server, which I don't]. Is there something I can
do
[just as a list owner] to deal with this mess?
/Bernie\_
Bernie Cosell
ber...@fantasyfarm.com
-- Too many people; too few sheep --
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[Mailman-Users] blocking bad digest replies
I'm a newcomer to replies [first time in many many years I've had digests on
one
of my lists, so it is all very new to me]. What I would like is to set up a
content
filter that 'holds' replies by sloppy posters. Specifically, I'd like to catch
posts
with a Subject line of "Re; " and one that contains the 'footer'
at
the end of the post [both indicative of a sorta clueless poster who didn't do
anything to trim down the digest]. I think/hope the content filtering can do
something like that. Yes??
/B\
Bernie Cosell
ber...@fantasyfarm.com
-- Too many people; too few sheep --
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[Mailman-Users] @signs in FORMs
I'm a bit confused [as always]. On the Member List page, all of the @signs that appear [e.g., in all the email addresses] are HTML encoded: The member "j...@newhost.com" ends up in the FORM for the list as I see in web developer, that the fields are apparently submitted just that way: -265001916915724 Content-Disposition: form-data; name="jojo%40newhost.com_realname" jojojo -265001916915724 Content-Disposition: form-data; name="user" jojo%40newhost.com -265001916915724 But I can't get my dumb program to update the member list [e.g., to turn on a 'mod' checkbox]. I'm busy debugging but I'm wondering: when my program submits the form fields, should it use the %40 form, or convert the fields back to @signs? [At the moment I can't get it to work either way but I'd like to know which is correct]. Thanks!! /Bernie\ Bernie Cosell ber...@fantasyfarm.com -- Too many people; too few sheep -- -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] Submitting the members page
Just for reference: I just checked and when I make a change in just one list member, includes a bit of stuff: csrf_token and findmember and setmemberopts_btn and allmodbit_val For every member on the page: _realname, user, _language, Plus, every checkbox that is "on" is also sent. I know that manyof you think I'm nuts and all this hassle I'm going through to program-submit mailman's forms is silly. But: I manage 8 lists now [it'll soon be nine or ten] and it is really very nice that I can open a windows command prompt and just type mailman LIST1 -s jim j...@hisdomain.com and in one stroke "jim" is "subscribed" [-u unsubscribes, etc] [not to mention how much I've learned about the wonders of the web developer addin for Firefox...:o)] /Bernie\ Bernie Cosell ber...@fantasyfarm.com -- Too many people; too few sheep -- -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] POST problem fixed!
> I discovered, after much mucking around, that the problem
> is that Mailman requires all of the form fields to be
> submitted.
Just a footnote to this: If you have a big list and you're trying to, say,
change the 'nomail' setting via the membership page, you're going to have
a *lot* of POST parameters! Every person subscribed to the list that's listed
on that page will generate something like 10 form variables. That's going
to be a *big* POST! Just to flip one bit..:o)
/Bernie\
Bernie Cosell
ber...@fantasyfarm.com
-- Too many people; too few sheep --
--
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[Mailman-Users] POST problem fixed!
I discovered, after much mucking around, that the problem is that
Mailman requires all of the form fields to be submitted. So unsubscribing
with just
@fields = ( unsubscribees => "$email",
setmemberopts_btn => "Submit Your Changes",
) ;
Doesn't work. What does work is:
@fields = ( send_unsub_ack_to_this_batch => 0,
send_unsub_notifications_to_list_owner => 1 ,
unsubscribees => "$email",
setmemberopts_btn => "Submit Your Changes",
Content => { unsubscribers_upload => "" },
) ;
YAY! /Bernie\
Bernie Cosell
ber...@fantasyfarm.com
-- Too many people; too few sheep --
--
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mod_Security
On 1 Aug 2018 at 17:30, Andrew Hodgson wrote:
> Can you provide steps of how you set up Mailman on the different
> providers since it looks like you are using some type of packaged or
> managed service which is providing features that are not part of the
> stock Mailman and may get in the way of what you are trying to do. It
> is difficult to provide support on here especially if there are other
> modules being used to provide extra site protection etc.
I have no way to determine that -- I'm just a user with no admin privs, so I
can't actually look at the mailman installation -- all I can do is try to use it
/b\
Bernie Cosell
ber...@fantasyfarm.com
-- Too many people; too few sheep --
--
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[Mailman-Users] Mod_Security
I'm still working on the auto-submission stuff. I set up another test mailing
list, this one on Bluehost. First, I compared the HTML of the
members/unsubscribe page and they are *identical* [except for having
different URLs for the links to the various pages].
And I tried my program on the Bluehost version and I was greeted with
Not Acceptable!Not
Acceptable!An appropriate representation of the requested
resource could not be found on this server. This error was generated by
Mod_Security.<
OK, next step is to do a complete packet-capture of the transactions with
Dreamhost and wireshark it to see what is strange versus what my
program is doing...
and mailman's forms seemed so simple...:o)
/b\
Bernie Cosell
ber...@fantasyfarm.com
-- Too many people; too few sheep --
--
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Re: [Mailman-Users] What does mailman do with a POST?
On 31 Jul 2018 at 21:25, Richard Damon wrote: > On 7/31/18 9:15 PM, Bernie Cosell wrote: > > Here's the request I just sent: > > > > 'setmemberopts-btn' => 'Submit Your Changes', > > 'cookie' => > > 'unsubscribees' => 'bernie' > > > > '_method' => 'POST', > > '_uri' => > > > > Do I have to do something special with the data for the > 'unsubscribees' ? I > > know it is a TEXTAREA -- but I just assumed I could pass it a string > and > > that'd be OK. > With Mailman2, submitting a non-subscribed email address to the > unsubscribe link doesn't give an error message. Hmm. the server is running 2.1.23 and I just tried unsubscribing "bernie" again from my web browser [and I'm still not on the list..:o)] and I got: --- Cannot unsubscribe non-members: bernie - in bold red letters at the top and then it is followed by the rest of the HTML for the mass-removal page. /B\ If you read the text > sent back, it says something like IF you were subscribed, and email > will > be set to your email address to confirm the unsubscription. I presume > this is part of Mailmans privacy policy to not let people find out if > someone is subscribed to a list (assuming the list doesn't post the > subscriber list). > > > -- > Richard Damon > > -- > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > Searchable Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: > https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/bernie%40fantasyfa > rm.com Bernie Cosell ber...@fantasyfarm.com -- Too many people; too few sheep -- -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] What does mailman do with a POST?
On 31 Jul 2018 at 15:53, Mark Sapiro wrote: > On 07/30/2018 05:08 AM, Bernie Cosell wrote: > > I'm trying to submit a form or two from a program and I can't quite > > understand Mailman's form handling, this with Mailman 2.1.23. > > What does Mailman do to when receiving a POST to decide if there's > > something to do or not? THANKS! > > > It looks at the POST data. In the case of the admin CGI just returning > the Mass Removals form with no errors and no changes, this means it > got > the right path to LISTNAME/members/remove and it got a good > csrf_token. That's a start... :o) > Given that, the only way it would return the form with no message is > if > it got no non-blank values for unsubscribees or unsubscribees_upload. > > You refer to csrf_token as csrf_object. If you are really submitting > the > value as csrf_object, that wouldn't work, but you should get an error. Right , I mistyped.. I still don't understand why I'm not getting anything. Here's the request I just sent: 'cookie2' => '$Version="1"', 'csrf-token' => '280200694a07615b734700746573746c6973742d66616e74617379666 1726d2e636f6d2b61646d696e3a3139376633326633636638316533393631 656132313039623235383137343533386232366139', 'setmemberopts-btn' => 'Submit Your Changes', 'cookie' => 'testlist-fantasyfarm.com+admin=280200694a07615b732800313937 66333266336366383165333936316561323130396232353831373435333862 32366139', 'user-agent' => 'Mozilla/5.0', 'unsubscribees' => 'bernie' '_method' => 'POST', '_uri' => http://lists.fantasyfarm.com/admin.cgi/testlist-fantasyfarm.com/member s/remove')}, 'URI::http' ), And the page I got back was the remove page -- no error no success [it should be an error, since I'm not subscribed to the list I'm playing with..:o)] Do I have to do something special with the data for the 'unsubscribees' ? I know it is a TEXTAREA -- but I just assumed I could pass it a string and that'd be OK. Thanks for the help! /Bernie\ Bernie Cosell ber...@fantasyfarm.com -- Too many people; too few sheep -- -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] What does mailman do with a POST?
I'm trying to submit a form or two from a program and I can't quite
understand Mailman's form handling, this with Mailman 2.1.23.
What I've done is a little program that does something simple: it first
authenticates [and gets the appropriate cookies], then I GET the
mass-removal page [to get its csrf_object. Then I do a simple POST with
just three form fields:
csrf_object=>
unsubscribees => the email address,
'setmemberopts_btn => 'Submit Your Changes'
The response I get back is the original page - no error and no success, just
the mass-removal page again. It is what would happen if you clicked on
the submit button without giving it anything to do
I've also tried a similar POSTing with every field from the form included,
and always the same: a 200 response and I get the mass-removal page back
again. I'd look at the code, but I'm a perl guy -- never messed with python.
What does Mailman do to when receiving a POST to decide if there's
something to do or not? THANKS!
/Bernie\
Bernie Cosell
ber...@fantasyfarm.com
-- Too many people; too few sheep --
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Can't close a list
Both the things you did apply to non-member posts. I suspect the issue is that Mailman thinks your test posts are from a member because (by default at least) if any of the smtp envelope sender or any From:, Reply-To: or Sender: header contains a member address, Mailman considers it a member post. Ah, that solves the problem. I don't think that was made clear. So it probably was working, but I couldn't test it because although I was using other identities, the envelope still said it was from me. thanks! /b\ -- Bernie Cosell Fantasy Farm Fibers mailto:ber...@fantasyfarm.com Pearisburg, VA -- Too many people, too few sheep -- -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] Can't close a list
Sorry to be posting another incredibly dumb question, but after my last go-round [wherein I learned that I had the RE just right but my #@#%$@#$% ISP runs spam assassing *after* mailman] I decided to try closing the list. So I checked thet FAQs and the manuals and did what I thought should do the job. In my otherwise empty 'sender filters' I changed: Action to take for postings from non-members for which no explicit action is defined. to hold The membership list consists of a single address, and I sent a message to the list from a different address and I was very surprised that it just went through. So I tried a more brute-force thing for my test: I changed List of non-member addresses whose postings will be automatically rejected. to ^.* And it came right through: From: Bernie Cosell bpcos...@email.vccs.edu Organization: Fantasy Farm Fibers To: testl...@cosell.net Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2015 15:38:20 -0400 Is there something else I need to enable or set or something other than the settings on the sender filters page to get outsiders blocked? THANKS! /bernie\ -- Bernie Cosell Fantasy Farm Fibers mailto:ber...@fantasyfarm.com Pearisburg, VA -- Too many people, too few sheep -- -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] spam filter not working
I have a spam filter set to 'hold': X-Spam-Level:\s*\*\*\* I would use ^X-Spam-Level:\s*\*\*\* but yours should match any with 3 or more stars, in particular the one above. I have confirmed with the sysadmins: There is no way to set it to use spam assassin first. So my problem is the obvious one: the filter isn't working because spam assassin isn't there. I need to figure out something to do about this. I can close the list, which will be a nuisance for me [to approve-through legit emails from alternate addreses] but that may be my only recourse. I'm actually thinking of a little hack that'd probably work: set up a *real* mailbox as the target of the list. That _will_ get spam-assassined. Then set up a cron-job that runs every few minutes to grab the mailbox and 'bounce' it to the mailman list. Dunno if I can pull that off and it might be more trouble than it saves... Thanks for the help, though. /b\ -- Bernie Cosell Fantasy Farm Fibers mailto:ber...@fantasyfarm.com Pearisburg, VA -- Too many people, too few sheep -- -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] spam filter not working
On 4 Jul 2015 at 8:22, Mark Sapiro wrote: On 07/03/2015 09:03 AM, Bernie Cosell wrote: I have a spam filter set to 'hold': X-Spam-Level:\s*\*\*\* I would use ^X-Spam-Level:\s*\*\*\* but yours should match any with 3 or more stars, in particular the one above. Is it possible it was held and approved? Check Mailman's 'vette' log or check the received massage for an X-Mailman-Approved-At: header. I've looked through the headers and it appears that my service provider only runs spam assassin *AFTER* the message goes through mailman -- the spam assassin headers come *after* all the mailman headers. I don't know if I can fix/change that or what to do. I'll have to talk to the service provider about that. /b\ -- Bernie Cosell Fantasy Farm Fibers mailto:ber...@fantasyfarm.com Pearisburg, VA -- Too many people, too few sheep -- -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] spam filter not working
I've looked through the FAQs and the archives and my spam filters *OUGHT* to work. But it seems they're not and I don't know why. I have a spam filter set to 'hold': X-Spam-Level:\s*\*\*\* And a message with these headers just got blasted out to the list: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on box913.bluehost.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=8.0 required=10.0 tests=BAYES_50,HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR, HK_RANDOM_REPLYTO,RCVD_IN_PSBL,RDNS_NONE,SPF_NEUTRAL shortcircuit=no autolearn=no version=3.3.2 Do I have the RE wrong somehow? THANKS! /b\ -- Bernie Cosell Fantasy Farm Fibers mailto:ber...@fantasyfarm.com Pearisburg, VA -- Too many people, too few sheep -- -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Changing parameters for one [or many] users from the command line
On 21 May 2014 at 20:03, Mark Sapiro wrote: On 05/21/2014 06:11 PM, Bernie Cosell wrote: I'd like to change several of the parameters [digest, nomail, etc] for a bunch of users on one of my lists. I've looked through the list of commands in /bin and I don't see a way to modify the parameter settings from the command line [and it'll be real tedious to do it one at a time from the admin interface]. Is there a way to do it? Assuming you want to set the same settings for all members, it's easy via withlist, Alas, I only need to mess with 80 out of 400. BUT in this case setting them *all* to mail [i.e., not-nomail] would be OK, so I'll look at withlist... Also, nomail is handled differently. Here you'd need from Mailman import MemberAdaptor at the beginning of your script and mlist.setDeliveryStatus(member, MemberAdaptor.BYADMIN) to set nomail by admin. There's a script at http://www.msapiro.net/scripts/set_nomail.py that sets nomail, but it probably has more options than you need. How would you clear nomail? Because that looks OK if it does just one member. I can easily whip up a shell script to generate the .py file with the commands for the 80 members I need to tweak. Thanks! /b\ -- Bernie Cosell Fantasy Farm Fibers mailto:ber...@fantasyfarm.com Pearisburg, VA -- Too many people, too few sheep -- -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] Changing parameters for one [or many] users from the command line
I'd like to change several of the parameters [digest, nomail, etc] for a bunch of users on one of my lists. I've looked through the list of commands in /bin and I don't see a way to modify the parameter settings from the command line [and it'll be real tedious to do it one at a time from the admin interface]. Is there a way to do it? Thanks! /bernie\ -- Bernie Cosell Fantasy Farm Fibers mailto:ber...@fantasyfarm.com Pearisburg, VA -- Too many people, too few sheep -- -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] Saving list subscribers from a backup
in the face of zillions of bounce/unsubscribes thanks to the DMARC mess, what I'd like to do is get the sysadmin to snapshot the list members from, say, a week ago. Then when we get things cleaned up I can 'restore' the list as it was. I don't know how to do it and I tried googling and only found: https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2003-March/027011.html which said ~/mailman/lists/list_name/config.db On our system, though, all I find is: mailman$ ls Mailman/ archive/ bin/ cgi-bin/ cron/ icons/ mail/ messages/ pythonlib/ scripts/ templates/ tests/ so no lists diretory at all. Obviously that's for a very old version of mailman We have: Using Mailman version: 2.1.9 Thanks /b\ -- Bernie Cosell Fantasy Farm Fibers mailto:ber...@fantasyfarm.com Pearisburg, VA -- Too many people, too few sheep -- -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] Rear interior lights not working
2003 1.8T. I happened to notice the other day that the rear interior lights don't work any more. I don't normally notice them so I dont' know how long they've been out [but I was vaguely aware that it was a bit darker in the car when I opened the doors]. They have three-way tilt switches [I assume: on/dooropen/off] and no setting of the switch gets either driver or passenger light to come on. [so not likely a burned out bulb, unless both rear bulbs burned out at the same time]. Is this something I could (try to) fix or should I just wait until my next trip to the dealer? Thanks! /Bernie\ -- Bernie Cosell Fantasy Farm Fibers mailto:ber...@fantasyfarm.com Pearisburg, VA -- Too many people, too few sheep -- -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] Oddity with list_members
I'm having some trouble with list_members. I do a list and I see several entries that don't show up in the GUI Membership List listings. And the other way around: I got a complaint from a former list member that they were still receiving messages, but list_members did *NOT* list them... but going into the GUI the member was there [and I unsubbed him from the gui]. That got me to checking and I discovered thatAnother odd anomaly: the list_members list is almost entirely in alphabetical order by email addr... *except* for one address that ought to have been with the s... addrs and came at the very end of the list. Also, the gui claims there are 326 members on the list, but list_members gives me 328. The member that didn't show up on the list_members list (but was actually subscribed) showed up as just an ordinary list member on the GUI membership list [no nomail or anything like that]. And I can't tell anything about members that show up on list_mem but not on the gui -- I'm not exactly sure if they're on the list or not. [I'll have to dig through the sendmail logs to see if they're actually receiving mailings or not]. Is this kind of thing indicative of something wrong in one of mailman's DBs or something like that? Should I be taking some kind of repair/fix steps? Thanks... /Bernie\ -- Bernie Cosell Fantasy Farm Fibers mailto:ber...@fantasyfarm.com Pearisburg, VA -- Too many people, too few sheep -- -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] Changing the host mailman is running on
I've been pawing through the docs and the config and I can't quite figure out what to do: we recently moved mailman to a new system. The sysadmin got mailman working and it seems OK. BUT: all the cgi-admin machinery has the *old* address [not just the emails, but the list-admin-screens internally reference the old server, so if I click on a submit it goes to the wrong system]. I've looked through the list-config via bin/config_list -o - LIST | grep OLDSERVER and I get no hits at all, so I don't know where the old server's hostname is being hidden. the mm_cfg.ph just does 'fdqn' for the URL_HOST, but that seems OK [I think] -- the *admin* [rather than list-specific] links seems to correctly poitn to the NEWSERVER. I don't know where to look next... Tnx!! /bernie\ -- Bernie Cosell Fantasy Farm Fibers mailto:ber...@fantasyfarm.com Pearisburg, VA -- Too many people, too few sheep -- -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] Getting info about bounces
How can I figure out *WHY* a particular user's email is bouncing? A member on one list, with whom I've exchanged email without a problem [and who successfully received the Your membership in the mailing list has been disabled due to excessive bounces messages [which, of course, didn't bounce..:o)] So the question arises: why did mailman think there were excessive bounces? Is there some log or something that would include the 'reason' info that the SMTP server sent back so I and the user [and their ISP] can try to figure out what the problem was? Thanks! /bernie\ -- Bernie Cosell Fantasy Farm Fibers mailto:ber...@fantasyfarm.com Pearisburg, VA -- Too many people, too few sheep -- -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
[Mailman-Users] Resetting users to 'mail' [from nomail]
I had a delivery problem and a bunch of users at one server all got nomail. I know who they are [list_members --nomail], but I've been looking through bin/* and I don't see exactly how I can set them back to 'mail'. I can do it one-at-a-time via the web interface, but i was wondering if there was some command-line way to do it. Thanks!! /Bernie\ -- Bernie Cosell Fantasy Farm Fibers mailto:ber...@fantasyfarm.com Pearisburg, VA -- Too many people, too few sheep -- -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
[Mailman-Users] Getting a reason in a reject
I'm clearly confused and doing something stupid wrong. I periodically go to the admin panel and deal with the 'defer'ed messages. Usually I start with discard all messages marked defer and then go through and either reject or accept the ones that aren't spam. My problem is that in the display it correctly lists the *reason* why the message got trapped, but when I just set 'reject' and tell it to go do it, the reject message ends up looking like: Subject: Request to mailing list XXX rejected Date: Jun 5, 2009 10:23 AM Your request to the XXX mailing list Posting of your message titled Whatever has been rejected by the list moderator. The moderator gave the following reason for rejecting your request: No reason given A double question: 1) why didn't it give as the reason the reason that was *there* (in this case, non-member submission to a restricted list), and 2) if it doesn't do that automatically, where can I put in a reason -- I don't see a spot in the web form for putting *in* a reason. Thanks! /Bernie\ -- Bernie Cosell Fantasy Farm Fibers mailto:ber...@fantasyfarm.com Pearisburg, VA -- Too many people, too few sheep -- -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] Discarding defers from the command line
On 12 May 2009 at 17:58, Mark Sapiro wrote: On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 08:27:45AM -0400, Bernie Cosell wrote: Is there a command-line way to discard all messags marked defer? Actually a FAQ more specific to this question is http://wiki.list.org/x/nIA9. I've been pushing on this some, to no avail at the moment. The simple part was finding the data directory, the wiki isn't exactly correct: on our install, at least, the data directory is in /var/lib/mailman. Since it seems to be constructed from VAR_PREFIX I'd guess that on most setups it'd be in a different place than ~mailman. What I'm running into now is that the command-line pgm has to be run as user 'mailman' and I can't do that [at least not very easily]. I tried setting discard to be setgid, but that seems not to work, so I guess this is a followon question: is there a way to make python scripts run setuid/setgid? [basically, my situation is that I can only get to the mail server logged in as me, NOT logged in as mailman] -- I suppose I could always write a setgid Perl one-liner to run the Python discard..:o) /Bernie\ -- Bernie Cosell Fantasy Farm Fibers mailto:ber...@fantasyfarm.com Pearisburg, VA -- Too many people, too few sheep -- -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
[Mailman-Users] Discarding defers from the command line
Is there a command-line way to discard all messags marked defer? /Bernie\ -- Bernie Cosell Fantasy Farm Fibers mailto:ber...@fantasyfarm.com Pearisburg, VA -- Too many people, too few sheep -- -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] Tracing a disappearing 'post'
On 9 Feb 2009 at 19:32, Mark Sapiro wrote:
Bernie Cosell wrote:
A user on one of the lists here complained that her posts weren't getting
through. I looked at the sendmail log and I see her post making it to
the | ...mailman post LIST, but then the message disappeared. I've
looked and it is, indeed, not in the list archives.
If the message was discarded by Mailman, that fact should be logged in
Mailman's vette log.
At the moment, I can't *find* the vette log..:o). I see the calls in the
code to syslog('vette',...) and from what I can tell the syslog is
running -- the sysadmin tells me that it is running rsyslog with the
simple rule:
*.*@MAINLOGSYSTEM
and other logging from that system seems to work, but I can't find any
mailman stuff... Still looking..:o)
BUT:
Note that given what you've said about the list configuration, I think
the most likely thing is Content filtering is on, text/html is
filtered (not in pass_mime_types) and filter_action is discard so her
text/html post is filtered to empty and discarded.
that solved it! The problem was that the user had some sort of AVG email
scanner that in the course of munging the MIME machinery to include a
Scanned and found virus-free section [what a useless, stupid bit of
software *THAT* is!] it totally hosed the format. Having them undo the
email scanning fixed the problem.
/Bernie\
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[Mailman-Users] Subscription requests with no -subscribe alias
I've removed the -subscribe alias for one of my lists. So there's just no way to get a message to mailman with 'subscribe LIST' on the command line. But nonetheless, I just got a message from mailman: Your authorization is required for a mailing list subscription request approval: ... How does that happen? Is there some way to make a subscription request happen that doesn't involve using a -subscribe alias? [obviously yes, but I don't know what it is..:o)] /Bernie\ -- Bernie Cosell Fantasy Farm Fibers mailto:ber...@fantasyfarm.com Pearisburg, VA -- Too many people, too few sheep -- -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
[Mailman-Users] Tracing a disappearing 'post'
A user on one of the lists here complained that her posts weren't getting through. I looked at the sendmail log and I see her post making it to the | ...mailman post LIST, but then the message disappeared. I've looked and it is, indeed, not in the list archives. I do get bounces and approvals [as both list admin and list moderator] and I've not gotten anything about this user's submissions, but still they appear to vanish. The list is unmoderated [Action to take for postings from non-members.. is set to Accept]. I have one filter set to 'hold', and I *have* gotten submissions that got caught by that filter, so I know it is working. What places am I missing that could get a message just to vanish? [and how can I try to make that not happen, or at least log what's happening or email me or something]? Thanks! /bernie\ -- Bernie Cosell Fantasy Farm Fibers mailto:ber...@fantasyfarm.com Pearisburg, VA -- Too many people, too few sheep -- -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
[Mailman-Users] Rejecting on size before content-filters
Is it possible to change the testing-order so that the list size limit is tested [and generates an appropriate reject] *before* the content filters are processed? [I just ran into one that was nearly double the maximum size but got kicked out because it also ran afoul of one of the content filters, and so what I ended up doing was ignoring the content filter and putting in message too long...etc into the 'Reason' on my bounce screen]. tnx! /Bernie\ -- Bernie Cosell Fantasy Farm Fibers mailto:ber...@fantasyfarm.com Pearisburg, VA -- Too many people, too few sheep -- -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] Rejecting on size before content-filters
On 4 Jan 2009 at 8:18, Mark Sapiro wrote:
Bernie Cosell wrote:
Is it possible to change the testing-order so that the list size limit is
tested [and generates an appropriate reject] *before* the content filters
are processed?
This is the way it's normally done. The usual request is to do it the
other way around. See, e.g.,
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2008-December/064541.html.
I think I see what to do. Am I correct that this would work [I'm a Perl
guy, and I don't know much python at the moment]:
GLOBAL_PIPELINE.remove('SpamDetect')
GLOBAL_PIPELINE.insert(GLOBAL_PIPELINE.index('Hold'), 'SpamDetect')
/bernie\
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Rejecting on size before content-filters
On 4 Jan 2009 at 8:18, Mark Sapiro wrote: Bernie Cosell wrote: Is it possible to change the testing-order so that the list size limit is tested [and generates an appropriate reject] *before* the content filters are processed? This is the way it's normally done. The usual request is to do it the other way around. See, e.g., http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2008-December/064541.html. Do you really mean content filter as in Content filtering or do you mean something else, perhaps header_filter_rules? Content filtering doesn't hold messages. It just removes parts, and perhaps does filter_action if it removes the entire message, but hold' is not one of the actions. My bad.. Sorry I'm new here and I don't get the terminology right. The filter that tripped was in Privacy options/spam filters. You can rearrange the pipeline similarly to the suggestion in the above referenced post so that whatever handler was responsible for this hold comes after the Hold handler which processes the message size limit amongst others. Ah, Ok -- I see the post and I'll try to figure it out and change the order... So, why was this message held. I.e., exactly what content filter did it run afoul of? It was a little spammy by our spam filter [Barracuda]. The listmembers are *astoundingly* spam averse but [of course] I don't want to reject a lot of false positives, so what I've done is set it up so that 'vaguely spam-like' submissions are, in essence, moderated. In addition to holding on X-Barracuda-Spam-Status: Yes I also hold on X-Barracuda- Spam-Score: [other than zero]. This gets a LOT of false positives [a spam score of 1.2 isn't very spammy, but it *might* be spam], so I just send-em through if they're OK. BUT: if the message is too large, then I don't want to send them through, even if the message was legit. so I want the you're too big filter to bounce the message before the spam- filter 'holds' it for me. /Bernie\ -- Bernie Cosell Fantasy Farm Fibers mailto:ber...@fantasyfarm.com Pearisburg, VA -- Too many people, too few sheep -- -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] Rejecting on size before content-filters
On 4 Jan 2009 at 9:08, Mark Sapiro wrote:
First let me say for the benefit of others reading this, that in
general, moving SpamDetect after Hold is not a good idea. However, in
your case, as described in your immediately prior post, where all your
header_filter_rules actions are 'hold' anyway, I think it's OK.
The lines above won't do what you want. They will move SpamDetect to a
position immediately before Hold. You want it after Hold so you want
GLOBAL_PIPELINE.remove('SpamDetect')
GLOBAL_PIPELINE.insert(GLOBAL_PIPELINE.index('Hold') + 1, 'SpamDetect')
Another dumb newbie question: as I understand it, if I edit these into my
mm_cfg.py it will affect the processing of *ALL* of the mailing lists,
not just the one I want the reversed order on. That happens to be OK at
the moment, but feels wrong -- is there a way to make this processing-
order change *ONLY* apply to the one list at hand?
Thanks!!
/Bernie\
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[Mailman-Users] Finding nomail subscribers
Is there a way to find the 'nomail' subscribers to a list [or, for that matter, subscribers selected by other criteria: e.g., all subscribers getting the list via digest]? I got a bounce-set-to-nomail notice and I cleverly deleted it by mistake and I'd like to follow up but I don't see an easy way to find the two bouncees other than shuffle through the [fairly large] list, 18-members-at-a-time looking for the two 'nomail/bounce's. Is there an easier way? [command line is fine: I do have shell access to the mailman server] Thanks! /Bernie\ -- Bernie Cosell Fantasy Farm Fibers mailto:ber...@fantasyfarm.com Pearisburg, VA -- Too many people, too few sheep -- -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] The economics of spam
On 24 Dec 2008 at 11:11, Lindsay Haisley wrote: Charging (someone) per email, while it's an attractive concept, seems to be kind of a technological mismatch. There are paradigms that can be associated with hard-copy paper mail that just don't apply to email. For instance, how do you deal appropriately with DSNs in such a system? How about mail addressed to postmaster which, by RFC, must be supported. I'm not sure these are fatal-flaw problems -- the hard-copy paper mail world *does* have sort-of equivalent processes. I don't understand exactly the problem with DSNs -- as I understand it, they are under the control of the sender and so the sender should pay [same as with the USPS: if you send stuff on the cheap, if it can't be delivered it is thrown away; if you pay more, they'll send you back an NDR. Why can't something similar fit into a server-to-server clearing? As for mail to postmaster, it must be supported but why must it be free? USmail to postmaster requires a stamp... ... Email has evolved more along the lines of the TCP/IP packet paradigm rather than that associated with postal hard-copy snail-mail. There are aspects of email that resemble ICMP packets far more than they resemble Christmas cards. Actually, this is backwards. email *started* that way [remember that forwarding was provided for and there was even that cute explicit-routing form of email address] and has, IMO, evolved off into needing to be *more*like* Christmas cards. /Bernie\ -- Bernie Cosell Fantasy Farm Fibers mailto:ber...@fantasyfarm.com Pearisburg, VA -- Too many people, too few sheep -- -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] The economics of spam
On 25 Dec 2008 at 10:29, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: Bernie Cosell writes: [same as with the USPS Aye, there's the rub. The USPS is, even today, a state(-protected) monopoly. Email is not, and cannot be, unless you make the whole Internet a state monopoly. What I was suggesting was not to model it on the USPS directly but on the *international* postal system. What I had in mind was the rough analog of considering each SMTP server as being sort-of a country-unto-itself and so settling its international email accounts with other SMTP servers in sort of the way the USPS and CanadaPost and RoyalMail and .. all do. Actually, this is backwards. email *started* that way [remember that forwarding was provided for and there was even that cute explicit-routing form of email address] and has, IMO, evolved off into needing to be *more*like* Christmas cards. Including a national monopoly email provider, I guess? What I interpret Lindsay to be saying is that for Christmas cards you can treat the USPS as a well-behaved black box (in the systems analysis sense; it may or may not do the job it claims to do at all well, but you can figure out what job it reliably does). Right, and in my model I can treat *my* SMTP server as a well-behaved black box. .. In particular you can determine that a piece of mail was properly paid for by the addressee because each and every one has postage *attached*, not merely accounted for somewhere. This is an unnecessary frill and a relic of the 1800s. All that's required is that the sending SMTP server and the receiving SMTP server keep accounts. But note that this is *exactly* what has to happen with international mail. CanadaPost doesn't [directly] get any of my 57cents [or whatever it is] when I send a letter from the US to Canada -- it is accounted for and the USPS [as I understand it] banks the extra 15 cents and then clears accounts with CanadaPost at some interval [annually?]. Nobody transfer micropayments across the border. ... This is not true for ICMP or for email as currently designed; there is no way to determine the provenance of a packet in general. Not at all true. Email isn't transmitted by IP packets, it is transmitted by TCP connections from one SMTP server to another and so provenance isn't in question. A receiving SMTP server knows *exactly* which SMTP server is sending the message and could easily 1) decide whether or not to accept the connection based on whether the sending-server was a deadbeat or not, and 2) keep a record [that'd be matched by the outgoing logs at the sending SMTP server] of the traffic so that at some interval the two could rectify accounts. Note that in what I was suggesting, the receiving SMTP server doesn't know or care what _individual_ sent the message, only that it came from SMTP-server-X. SMTP-server-X can decide how *IT* wants to pass on the cost of sending the message [or not!] to whomever *it* accepted the message from, be it one of their customers or some other SMTP server. ... all that will happen is that the email network will become disconnected (as we are currently observing, anyway): a backbone cabal of email providers will evolve, and people with Linux boxes etc will set up wildcat SMTP networks along the lines of the old UUCP network. I doubt that. If google and AOL and just a few others refuse email from any SMTP server that doesn't have a transfer-account-in-good-standing, I doubt that the 'wildcatters' will get very far. I'm not convinced that the scheme will work, but it really doesn't require any changes in SMTP or required assured-authenications or micropayments or anything along those lines, and so it *might* work. Note, too, that 'satellite' SMTP servers can play along if they choose : if I'm mycompany.com and I don't want the bother of having a lot of email transfer payment accounts with SMTP servers around the world, there's room for a paypal like enterprise: I sign up with them, I use *THEM* as a relaying-smtp server [basically exactly like the way individual customers use their ISP's outgoing SMTP server] and my email paypal would handle all of the accounts with the other SMTP servers and I could just settle with my 'relay' by whatever contractual arrangement I'd made. /Bernie\ -- Bernie Cosell Fantasy Farm Fibers mailto:ber...@fantasyfarm.com Pearisburg, VA -- Too many people, too few sheep -- -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] The economics of spam
On 25 Dec 2008 at 12:41, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: Again, assuming that traffic patterns stay the same, this is all very nice for AOL, which would have a substantial positive balance of payments. But it would suck rotten eggs for open source projects, whose primary interaction with the mail system is to host mailing lists that on average must have tiny inward flow and significant outward flow. This is wildly offtopic for this list and I, too, am going to stop prolonging it, but I'll just mention that this is the *CRUX* of the problem: what do you do if you want to let a white hat server that sends a million messages a month do so unencumbered but still somehow penalize/charge a black hat spamhaus. I *THINK* that the folks here, earlier, said that they'd be willing to pay to have a global/overall email system that was essentially spam free, and that means that the 'white hat' folks running mailing lists would have to figure out what to do. There are three obvious choices [this no matter what scheme is used to set up pay-for-play]: 1) be on a hosting server that out of the goodness of their hearts will eat the costs, 2) have the list admins eat the cost [e.g., if SUN bankrolls the Java mailing list or something like that], or 3) have the lists go to a subscription basis. On (3), since we were proposing one-one-hundredth of a [US] cent per message, that means that for me to sign up for this list [what: a thousand messages a year?] it would cost me something like a dime a year to subscribe. I'd pay that. Will traffic patterns stay the same? I think not. If AOL refuses mail without postage, delivery from my lists (not to mention from listmaster) to @aol.com addresses will stop. They can try to bill me, in which case they have no legal way to enforce since I haven't negotiated a contract with them. And I will simply unsubscribe all existing AOL addresses and bar them from subscribing in the future. This re-emphasizes that whatever criticisms you've made of various schemes for effecting this kind of thing, you basically have a fundamental philsophical refusal to accept the approach at all. Basically, you *INSIST* that you be permitted to send your email for free, regardless of the distributed costs. I don't see why email should be free [and indeed, our experience with spammers would seem to indicate that email-all-you-want-for-free is an idea that probably should have died when NSF opened the net to outsiders] /Bernie\ -- Bernie Cosell Fantasy Farm Fibers mailto:ber...@fantasyfarm.com Pearisburg, VA -- Too many people, too few sheep -- -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
[Mailman-Users] Only mailto, not http, list-* headers
Is it possible to configure mailman to ONLY provide the mailto list-* headers and not the http versions? [at the moment mailman is running on an internal server that doesn't have a public web interface and it is just confusing/annoying for the users to have a link that doesn't work]. thanks!! /Bernie\ -- Bernie Cosell Fantasy Farm Fibers mailto:ber...@fantasyfarm.com Pearisburg, VA -- Too many people, too few sheep -- -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] The economics of spam
On 24 Dec 2008 at 3:45, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: Jan Steinman writes: I would willingly pay a hundredth of a cent (or so) per email sent if it would reduce spam to near-zero. Only problem is, you'll have to go to the bank and fill out the electronic funds transfer form for each $.1 you pay. Nanopayments are not a solved problem. My thought on this [from years ago -- I haven't pondered it much recently] was that using the international postal-service model would likely work; basically convert the problem from nanopayments between individuals to bulk payments between servers. The US and Canada don't tranfer back and forth to each other so many cents for each letter, they just aggregate them and come to a settlement in bulk. What I think would work would be to have the *servers* keep cross- accounts of mail sent and received and the payments would only have to flow in the sent-more to sent-less direction and would only have to happen occasionally to balance the books. That would also leave open [and irrelevant in the large] how the various servers recouped those costs from their customers. If a particular server refused to pay their bill, you'd just refuse to accept any more email from them until they paid up. /Bernie\ -- Bernie Cosell Fantasy Farm Fibers mailto:ber...@fantasyfarm.com Pearisburg, VA -- Too many people, too few sheep -- -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] The economics of spam
On 23 Dec 2008 at 14:55, Barry Warsaw wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Dec 23, 2008, at 2:24 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: And how does this work when the actual spam message is sent by a malware infected computer belonging to an arguably innocent user and is sent by direct SMTP to the recipient's MX? Bill the OS vendor of the infected machine. :) Maybe, or the customer's ISP [which permitted the outgoing SMTP connection]. It is actually, I think, an interesting legal question: who should be responsible [in a get-sued way] for damages caused by [what is arguably] a user's negligence in the use of their computer? Or the vendor's negligence in selling a defective/toodangerous product? And not just for spam: what about the zombies in a bot net that cause *real* financial harm to a third party: should the owners of the infected machines bear any responsibility for the damage that's caused? /Bernie\ -- Bernie Cosell Fantasy Farm Fibers mailto:ber...@fantasyfarm.com Pearisburg, VA -- Too many people, too few sheep -- -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
