[Mailman-Users] Admin Panel Spam Filters: Filtering Message Body for Keywords?

[Michael Reeder -- Hygeia MS]

Hello All,

**Question:  Is there a way to use [Spam filters] (or any other setting 
in the GUI admin panel) to filter for keywords in the body of the 
incoming email message?**


~~~
Looking for help on use of the "[Spam filters]" option under "Privacy 
Options...".


My situation is that I don't have access to the back-end to set up any 
more sophisticated filters (Dream Host) so I need to ONLY utilize tools 
available through the web GUI administrative panel.


Online examples of how to do this are strangely hard to find, other than 
discussions of how to look at headers for spam filter scores.


Somehow, a few months ago, I managed to find this example of how to 
filter an email subject line:


\nSubject: .*Jerusalem.*

Which we then Hold for moderation.

I would like to do the exact same thing for the body of the email 
message -- filter the message body for keywords.


Something like:

\nBody: .*Jerusalem.*

**Question:  Is there a way to use [Spam filters] (or any other setting 
in the GUI admin panel) to filter for keywords in the body of the 
incoming email message?**


Our use case is that we have a 20+ year tradition of allowing polite and 
respectful political discussion, but need to hold for moderation all 
messages on the Middle East situation due to it just being too 
explosively emotional for even psychotherapists to keep their sh*t together.


Thanks for any and all help!

-- Michael
https://www.clinicians-exchange.org
Professional discussion list for psychotherapists and mental health 
professionals.


--
*Michael Reeder, LCPC
*
*Hygeia Counseling Services : Baltimore / Mt. Washington Village location*
*410-871-TALK / michael(at)hygeiacounseling.com*
*http://www.hygeiacounseling.com - main website. *
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[Mailman-Users] Re: Cloudmark blacklist

[Michael Reeder -- Hygeia MS]

Jayson,

I'm not sure I'm fully knowledgeable enough in this matter to help, but 
maybe...


For my Mastodon VPS I use sendpulse.com as the outgoing SMTP server.  
They have a surprisingly high threshold of free outbound SMTP messages 
they allow per month before asking you for a paid plan.  So far, I have 
had no problem with blocked messages, so you might try them?


FYI -- This is a company based in Ukraine with their servers in Germany, 
so not sure what happens if Russia makes further strides in the war.


-- Michael

*Michael Reeder, LCPC
*
*Hygeia Counseling Services : Baltimore / Mt. Washington Village location*
*410-871-TALK / michael(at)hygeiacounseling.com*


On 3/16/2024 11:10 AM, Jayson Smith wrote:

Hi,

What I mean is that I'd love to find a good, reliable smarthost I can 
direct my SMTP server on my VPS to use. I've heard knowledgeable 
friends say over and over and over again, "Anyone who runs their own 
Email server is just asking for trouble, it's not worth it any more." 
The real problem I'm seeing is that seemingly within the last few 
years, at least some VPS providers (Linode and Digital Ocean for sure) 
have started getting entire IP ranges put on blocklists. My first 
experience of being put on UCEPROTECT level 3 was on January 20, 2021, 
and a few weeks ago my IP wound up on UCEPROTECT level 2. Yes, I know 
how the UCEPROTECT lists work, but the point is that I never used to 
find my IP on those lists, but now it happens every few months. I have 
to think something has happened to cause more spammers to use these 
providers.


As for incoming Email, I'd like for my own SMTP server to be able to 
continue handling it. The reason is that I don't want some other Email 
provider's spam blocking software deciding what I get to see. I have 
some incoming spam control measures in place for specific Email 
addresses that tend to receive a lot of spam, but for me and my family 
members, everything gets through. Yes this means we get incoming spam 
that comes our way, but it also means we don't have to worry about an 
important incoming message going missing because it was sent to the 
spam folder or silently discarded.


Thanks for any thoughts,

Jayson

On 3/16/2024 5:26 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

Jayson Smith writes:

  > I'm getting really tired of these unexplained blacklistings. Does
  > anyone know of any reliable outgoing Email service providers?

What do you mean by that?  Gmail for example allows you (or did allow
you 18 months ago) to validate an alternate address through the usual
"can you read this mail and send back a cookie" dance, and use those
validated addresses in From.

Unfortunately, in my experience at least Gmail won't allow you to use
a non-gmail address in From unless you're using their app or browser
client.  Authenticated SMTP to port 587 doesn't cut it for whatever
reason.  The best I could figure out was sending through eg gmail
using From: m...@gmail.com and setting Reply-To.

  > Ideally I want to continue to handle my own incoming Email because
  > I don't want someone else's spam blocking software deciding what
  > Emails I receive.

I don't know of freemail who allows that, unfortunately.  The closest
I know of is Google, as above.

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[Mailman-Users] Re: Making Sure a Weekly Digest is Just Weekly

[Michael Reeder -- Hygeia MS]

Thank you Mark for cutting right to the chase for me.

Mark wrote: "Mailman's files should be in 
/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman"


No -- no such directory on eigthmile.dreamhost.com -- It's got to be on 
a separate server.  Top level searches on  & 
 turn up nothing either.


I have a note into Dream Host support.

Thanks,
Michael

*Michael Reeder, LCPC
*
*Hygeia Counseling Services : Baltimore / Mt. Washington Village location*
*410-871-TALK / michael(at)hygeiacounseling.com*


On 11/5/2023 5:32 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

On 11/5/23 14:23, Michael Reeder -- Hygeia MS wrote:
I may have answered my own questions below. (**One quick newbie 
question though:  If I continue looking for the Mailman program, what 
directory should it be in and what are some names I can run a 
recursive "find" command on?** )


I see from https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Mailman that Mailman 
files should be in:
"It copies the installation files in /var/lib/mailman. It installs 
the cgi scripts in /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman directory."


Nope -- not in either place on eightmile.dreamhost.com



It appears this is cPanel. See 
https://wiki.list.org/DOC/Mailman%20and%20CPanel - Mailman's files 
should be in /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman



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[Mailman-Users] Re: Making Sure a Weekly Digest is Just Weekly

[Michael Reeder -- Hygeia MS]

I may have answered my own questions below. (**One quick newbie question 
though:  If I continue looking for the Mailman program, what directory 
should it be in and what are some names I can run a recursive "find" 
command on?** )


I see from https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Mailman that Mailman files 
should be in:
"It copies the installation files in /var/lib/mailman. It installs the 
cgi scripts in /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman directory."


Nope -- not in either place on eightmile.dreamhost.com

When I go all the way to the top level of the server, and run -name "*mailman*"> I am of course restricted from most directories.  I 
can however see:


./usr/share/bash-completion/completions/mailmanctl
./usr/libexec/check_mailman
./var/chef/cache/cookbooks/ndn-postfix/recipes/mailman-internal.rb
./var/chef/cache/cookbooks/ndn-postfix/recipes/mailman.rb
./var/chef/cache/cookbooks/ndn-postfix/templates/default/main-mailman.cf.erb
./var/chef/cache/cookbooks/ndn-postfix/templates/default/main-mailman-internal.cf.erb

None of these look very promising.  I am denied read/write/execute 
access to everything under ./var/chef/cache/cookbooks/ndn-postfix/


The file "./usr/libexec/check_mailman" refers to code  in 
"/usr/local/dh/mailman".  This file does not seem to exist and the 
directory is not writable to me.


So, again, looking like I have to go to Dream Host for support whether 
or not the Mailman system is on a separate server or accessible through 
eightmile.dreamhost.com .  I think.


-- Michael

*Michael Reeder, LCPC
*
*Hygeia Counseling Services : Baltimore / Mt. Washington Village location*
*410-871-TALK / michael(at)hygeiacounseling.com*
*http://www.hygeiacounseling.com - main website. 
./var/chef/cache/cookbooks/ndn-postfix/recipes/mailman-internal.rb*


On 11/5/2023 3:14 PM, Michael Reeder -- Hygeia MS wrote:

Hmmm... This looks vaguely possible...

The frustrating thing is I'll have to spend some hours on figuring 
this out -- which means I have to come back to it later.


I have now created an SSH user and can log onto my shared hosting 
server (eightmile.dreamhost.com).


I also see -- in the cpanel -- the ability to create cron jobs on that 
same shared hosting server.  (Or -- I can do a "crontab -e" command to 
create it when logged into the server.)


BUT... I'm told the Mailman server is a separate server.  When I try 
to ssh onto "lists.clinicians-exchange.org" its denied because 
apparently there is a public/private key login I'm not privy to.


On my account at eightmile.dreamhost.com I do see a 
"lists.clinicians-exchange.org" folder -- but all that's in it is a 
.tar.gz file backup.  On this server when I look under /etc I don't 
see a mailman program.  Same with /var directory.  Even so, root owns 
these files and directories so I don't think I could change anything 
in them.


So... I suspect Dream Host would have to do this for me.

**One quick newbie question though:  If I continue looking for the 
Mailman program, what directory should it be in and what are some 
names I can run a recursive "find" command on?**


Thanks,
Michael
*Michael Reeder, LCPC
*
*Hygeia Counseling Services : Baltimore / Mt. Washington Village 
location*

*410-871-TALK / michael(at)hygeiacounseling.com*


On 11/5/2023 11:56 AM, Dmitri Maziuk wrote:

On 11/4/23 14:22, Mark Sapiro wrote:

On 11/4/23 11:27, Michael Reeder -- Hygeia MS wrote:


Ugh.  Dream Host does not give me cron job / command line access. 
I'll try begging them to do this, but more likely I'll have to 
manually release the Digest each week.



It is unlikely they will let you do this as it would affect all 
lists on the server, not just yours.



Google says dreamhost does let you create your own cron jobs, you 
just can't get to the "system" ones. You could probably make one that 
does what Mark described with curl or something: POST the config 
change to the admin page, POST the change-back a minute later.


It'd be even easier if `senddigest` had a command line argument like 
"--force", but alas.


Dima

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Sea

[Mailman-Users] Re: Making Sure a Weekly Digest is Just Weekly

[Michael Reeder -- Hygeia MS]

Hmmm... This looks vaguely possible...

The frustrating thing is I'll have to spend some hours on figuring this 
out -- which means I have to come back to it later.


I have now created an SSH user and can log onto my shared hosting server 
(eightmile.dreamhost.com).


I also see -- in the cpanel -- the ability to create cron jobs on that 
same shared hosting server.  (Or -- I can do a "crontab -e" command to 
create it when logged into the server.)


BUT... I'm told the Mailman server is a separate server.  When I try to 
ssh onto "lists.clinicians-exchange.org" its denied because apparently 
there is a public/private key login I'm not privy to.


On my account at eightmile.dreamhost.com I do see a 
"lists.clinicians-exchange.org" folder -- but all that's in it is a 
.tar.gz file backup.  On this server when I look under /etc I don't see 
a mailman program.  Same with /var directory.  Even so, root owns these 
files and directories so I don't think I could change anything in them.


So... I suspect Dream Host would have to do this for me.

**One quick newbie question though:  If I continue looking for the 
Mailman program, what directory should it be in and what are some names 
I can run a recursive "find" command on?**


Thanks,
Michael
*Michael Reeder, LCPC
*
*Hygeia Counseling Services : Baltimore / Mt. Washington Village location*
*410-871-TALK / michael(at)hygeiacounseling.com*


On 11/5/2023 11:56 AM, Dmitri Maziuk wrote:

On 11/4/23 14:22, Mark Sapiro wrote:

On 11/4/23 11:27, Michael Reeder -- Hygeia MS wrote:


Ugh.  Dream Host does not give me cron job / command line access. 
I'll try begging them to do this, but more likely I'll have to 
manually release the Digest each week.



It is unlikely they will let you do this as it would affect all lists 
on the server, not just yours.



Google says dreamhost does let you create your own cron jobs, you just 
can't get to the "system" ones. You could probably make one that does 
what Mark described with curl or something: POST the config change to 
the admin page, POST the change-back a minute later.


It'd be even easier if `senddigest` had a command line argument like 
"--force", but alas.


Dima

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[Mailman-Users] Re: Making Sure a Weekly Digest is Just Weekly

[Michael Reeder -- Hygeia MS]

Jeremy and Dmitri,

I will do a bit of digging around for cron job access as you both 
describe.  Thanks!


-- Michael

*Michael Reeder, LCPC
*
*Hygeia Counseling Services : Baltimore / Mt. Washington Village location*
*410-871-TALK / michael(at)hygeiacounseling.com*


On 11/5/2023 11:56 AM, Dmitri Maziuk wrote:

On 11/4/23 14:22, Mark Sapiro wrote:

On 11/4/23 11:27, Michael Reeder -- Hygeia MS wrote:


Ugh.  Dream Host does not give me cron job / command line access. 
I'll try begging them to do this, but more likely I'll have to 
manually release the Digest each week.



It is unlikely they will let you do this as it would affect all lists 
on the server, not just yours.



Google says dreamhost does let you create your own cron jobs, you just 
can't get to the "system" ones. You could probably make one that does 
what Mark described with curl or something: POST the config change to 
the admin page, POST the change-back a minute later.


It'd be even easier if `senddigest` had a command line argument like 
"--force", but alas.


Dima

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[Mailman-Users] Re: Making Sure a Weekly Digest is Just Weekly

[Michael Reeder -- Hygeia MS]

Thanks once again Mark.  I have those Digest settings in place for 
manual sending now.


-- Michael

*Michael Reeder, LCPC
*
*Hygeia Counseling Services : Baltimore / Mt. Washington Village location*
*410-871-TALK / michael(at)hygeiacounseling.com*


On 11/4/2023 3:22 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

On 11/4/23 11:27, Michael Reeder -- Hygeia MS wrote:


Ugh.  Dream Host does not give me cron job / command line access. 
I'll try begging them to do this, but more likely I'll have to 
manually release the Digest each week.



It is unlikely they will let you do this as it would affect all lists 
on the server, not just yours.


A manual process is not too bad. Set the list's digest_size_threshhold 
to zero so no digests are sent on size and set digest_send_periodic to 
No so none are sent by cron. Then when you want to send a digest, set 
_send_digest_now to Yes on the Digest options page and save changes. 
This will send the digest immediately if it has any messages.



Or... Look into setting up my own Mailman service on my own virtual 
server... I am running a Mastodon instance, so I might be up for the 
challenge.  Maybe.


If you're considering this, I would recommend Mailman 3. See 
https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/install/install.html


Mailman 2.1 is past end of life and will only become more difficult to 
support as time goes on. In particular, it requires Python 2 which is 
also end of life and is being dropped from many distros.



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[Mailman-Users] Re: Making Sure a Weekly Digest is Just Weekly

[Michael Reeder -- Hygeia MS]

All,

I'm appreciating and looking into the many suggestions so far.

**Anyone know which -- if any -- give cron job / CLI access?**

Thanks,
Michael

*Michael Reeder, LCPC
*
*Hygeia Counseling Services : Baltimore / Mt. Washington Village location*
*410-871-TALK / michael(at)hygeiacounseling.com*


On 11/3/2023 10:45 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

On 11/3/23 16:23, Michael Reeder -- Hygeia MS wrote:


I have a "weekly digest".  It's new, but seems to be publishing at 
least twice per week (Wednesdays and Fridays).


The digest_volume_frequency setting has nothing to do with how often 
digests are sent. It controls how often the digest volume number is 
incremented and the digest issue number is reset.


If digest_send_periodic is Yes, periodic digests are sent whenever 
there are messages for the digest and cron/senddigests is run. I.e., 
The frequency of periodic digests is controlled by how often 
cron/senddigests is run by cron.




I have:
a) Already checked that it is set to "weekly"


As above, this has nothing to do with how often digests are sent.


b) Already double-checked that "digest_size_threshold" is set to 0.


Which means digests will never be sent based on size.


c) I have just changed "digest_send_periodic" from "Yes" to "No".

With the change in (C) above, have I fixed the problem?


No. You have ensured that digests will never be sent. c) says that 
digests will not be sent when cron/senddigests is run and b) says that 
digests will never be sent based on size.


What you want is to set digest_send_periodic to Yes and adjust 
mailman's crontab to run cron/senddigests weekly.



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[Mailman-Users] Re: Making Sure a Weekly Digest is Just Weekly

[Michael Reeder -- Hygeia MS]

Mark,

Thank you!

Ugh.  Dream Host does not give me cron job / command line access. I'll 
try begging them to do this, but more likely I'll have to manually 
release the Digest each week.


Or... Look into setting up my own Mailman service on my own virtual 
server... I am running a Mastodon instance, so I might be up for the 
challenge.  Maybe.


Thanks,
Michael

*Michael Reeder, LCPC
*
*Hygeia Counseling Services : Baltimore / Mt. Washington Village location*
*410-871-TALK / michael(at)hygeiacounseling.com*
*http://www.hygeiacounseling.com - main website.
*


On 11/3/2023 10:45 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

On 11/3/23 16:23, Michael Reeder -- Hygeia MS wrote:


I have a "weekly digest".  It's new, but seems to be publishing at 
least twice per week (Wednesdays and Fridays).


The digest_volume_frequency setting has nothing to do with how often 
digests are sent. It controls how often the digest volume number is 
incremented and the digest issue number is reset.


If digest_send_periodic is Yes, periodic digests are sent whenever 
there are messages for the digest and cron/senddigests is run. I.e., 
The frequency of periodic digests is controlled by how often 
cron/senddigests is run by cron.




I have:
a) Already checked that it is set to "weekly"


As above, this has nothing to do with how often digests are sent.


b) Already double-checked that "digest_size_threshold" is set to 0.


Which means digests will never be sent based on size.


c) I have just changed "digest_send_periodic" from "Yes" to "No".

With the change in (C) above, have I fixed the problem?


No. You have ensured that digests will never be sent. c) says that 
digests will not be sent when cron/senddigests is run and b) says that 
digests will never be sent based on size.


What you want is to set digest_send_periodic to Yes and adjust 
mailman's crontab to run cron/senddigests weekly.



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[Mailman-Users] Making Sure a Weekly Digest is Just Weekly

[Michael Reeder -- Hygeia MS]

Wow -- two posts in one day!

I have a "weekly digest".  It's new, but seems to be publishing at least 
twice per week (Wednesdays and Fridays).


I have:
a) Already checked that it is set to "weekly"
b) Already double-checked that "digest_size_threshold" is set to 0.

c) I have just changed  "digest_send_periodic" from "Yes" to "No".

With the change in (C) above, have I fixed the problem?

Thanks,
Michael

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[Mailman-Users] Re: Good Commercial Mailman Hosts?

[Michael Reeder -- Hygeia MS]

Thank you Christian!

*Michael Reeder, LCPC
*
*Hygeia Counseling Services : Baltimore / Mt. Washington Village location*
*410-871-TALK / michael(at)hygeiacounseling.com*


On 11/3/2023 2:29 PM, Christian wrote:

Hello Michael Reeder -- Hygeia MS. On Fri, 3 Nov 2023 10:36:47 -0400, you wrote:


I'm hoping you all could point me towards some good commercial
providers that offer Mailman lists to customers?

I think Mailman (version 2, not 3) is included in all offers that contain 
cPanel as a front-end.


Bonus points if they are also web hosting accounts, and bonus points
for lower cost as this is a volunteer effort I'm paying for
out-of-pocket for the community.

Contact digimouse.eu for details on their offers 
-<https://www.digimouse.eu/en/>.

Christian


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Member address: arch...@jab.org

[Mailman-Users] Good Commercial Mailman Hosts?

[Michael Reeder -- Hygeia MS]

Hello,

I'm hoping you all could point me towards some good commercial providers 
that offer Mailman lists to customers?


Bonus points if they are also web hosting accounts, and bonus points for 
lower cost as this is a volunteer effort I'm paying for out-of-pocket 
for the community.


I still love Dream Host and the particular ONE tech there who knows how 
to work their ONE list discussion server is awesome and responsive, but 
I'm getting tired of the lack of equipment redundancy/backup, their west 
coast server farm lost power for most of yesterday, and they are now up 
to $10.99/mo.  Maybe $10.99/mo. is just the going rate now?


When I worked for Digex web hosting 22 years ago we were connected to 
BOTH the Baltimore and Washington, DC power grids, and had a contract 
with a diesel oil company to keep our diesel generators running 24/7 in 
the event that both power grids went down.


Any ideas appreciated.

Thanks,
Michael

--
*Michael Reeder, LCPC
*
*Hygeia Counseling Services : Baltimore / Mt. Washington Village location*
*410-871-TALK / michael(at)hygeiacounseling.com*
*http://www.hygeiacounseling.com - main website.
*
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[Mailman-Users] Re: Questions About "An embedded message was scrubbed..."

[Michael Reeder -- Hygeia MS]

Mark,

"So is it the case that the message you received contained the actual 
messages and they were only scrubbed in the archive and not in the 
message delivered to List #2 members?  If so, that is a limitation of 
the archiver."


YES.  The issue was this silly.  Thanks for fielding it.  For reasons 
mentioned earlier, I did not spot my error until too late.


Thanks,
-- Michael

*Michael Reeder, LCPC
*
*Hygeia Counseling Services : Baltimore / Mt. Washington Village location*
*410-871-TALK / michael(at)hygeiacounseling.com*


On 8/4/2023 8:00 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

On 8/4/23 15:55, Michael Reeder -- Hygeia MS wrote:

Alright -- This is embarrassing...

I may have outsmarted myself...

I was expecting the message to go to my subfolder for List #2 in my 
Thunderbird email client.  Of course it did not.  I have a separate 
subfolder for List #1.  So it went to List #1's message subfolder 
because List #2 was merely a member receiving the message from List #1.


So is it the case that the message you received contained the actual 
messages and they were only scrubbed in the archive and not in the 
message delivered to List #2 members?


If so, that is a limitation of the archiver.


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[Mailman-Users] Re: Questions About "An embedded message was scrubbed..."

[Michael Reeder -- Hygeia MS]

Alright -- This is embarrassing...

I may have outsmarted myself...

I was expecting the message to go to my subfolder for List #2 in my 
Thunderbird email client.  Of course it did not.  I have a separate 
subfolder for List #1.  So it went to List #1's message subfolder 
because List #2 was merely a member receiving the message from List #1.


**No need to respond to this one unless I look at it for a day or two 
and still find further issues.**


Time for a beer...

Thanks,
Michael


*Michael Reeder, LCPC
*
*Hygeia Counseling Services : Baltimore / Mt. Washington Village location*
*410-871-TALK / michael(at)hygeiacounseling.com*


On 8/4/2023 6:35 PM, Michael Reeder -- Hygeia MS wrote:
Apologies if this is too simple for this list -- I have tried looking 
through the online documentation and even this list's archive...


SIMPLE VERSION OF QUESTION:
I'm trying to find out how to stop a list from scrubbing embedded 
messages.


Does it have something to do with content filtering?  ( 
https://docs.mailman3.org/projects/mailman/en/latest/src/mailman/handlers/docs/filtering.html 
)



BACKGROUND:
I have GNU Mailman List #1 that is an announcements only list.  It 
receives multiple emails of multiple rss feeds from blogtrottr.com (an 
RSS feed to email service), collects them, then sends them all out as 
a daily digest.  So essentially it is a GNU Mailman digest of multiple 
Blogtrottr RSS feed digests.


**When List #1 is sent to an individual email address it works fine.**

When sent to a GNU Mailman List #2:
a) The email digest of List #1 NEVER gets emailed to List #2 members
b) The email digest of List #1 DOES appear in the archive of List #2 
as having been sent.
c) In the archive of List #2 -- for each email in the List #1 digest 
-- the message "An embedded message was scrubbed..." appears.


It looks like this in the List #2 archive:

--START MESSAGE--
.
-- next part --
**THIS IS AN ANNOUNCEMENTS-ONLY LIST.**

RSS Feed articles from ACA Counseling Today, APA PsychPort, Healthcare 
Info Security, Health IT Security, NASW Social Workers Speak, NYT 
Psychology & Psychologists, NYU Information for Practice, Scientific 
American Mind & Body, Social Psychology Psychology Headlines, & The 
New Social Worker Careers Magazine.

__
-- next part --
Today's Topics:

   1. Your Daily digest for NYT Psychology & Psychologists Daily
  Digest (Article Digests for Psychology & Social Work)
   2. Your Daily digest for Social Psychology Psychology Headlines
  Daily Digest (Article Digests for Psychology & Social Work)
   3. Confirm your unsubscription from 'NYT > Psychology and
  Psychologists' (Article Digests for Psychology & Social Work)
   4. Your Daily digest for NASW Social Workers Speak Daily Digest
  (Article Digests for Psychology & Social Work)
   5. Your Daily digest for NYU Information for Practice Daily
  Digest (Article Digests for Psychology & Social Work)
-- next part --
An embedded message was scrubbed...
From: Article Digests for Psychology & Social Work
 
Subject: Your Daily digest for NYT Psychology & Psychologists Daily 
Digest

Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2023 20:08:07 +
Size: 3372
URL: 
<http://lists.clinicians-exchange.org/private.cgi/clinicians-exchange-clinicians-exchange.org/attachments/20230804/ed6c3463/attachment.eml>

-- next part --
An embedded message was scrubbed...
From: Article Digests for Psychology & Social Work
 
Subject: Your Daily digest for Social Psychology Psychology Headlines 
Daily Digest

Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2023 20:09:05 +
Size: 10905
URL: 
<http://lists.clinicians-exchange.org/private.cgi/clinicians-exchange-clinicians-exchange.org/attachments/20230804/ed6c3463/attachment-0001.eml>

-- next part --
An embedded message was scrubbed...
From: Article Digests for Psychology & Social Work
 
Subject: Confirm your unsubscription from 'NYT > Psychology and 
Psychologists'

Date: Thu,  3 Aug 2023 20:20:56 + (UTC)
Size: 965
URL: 
<http://lists.clinicians-exchange.org/private.cgi/clinicians-exchange-clinicians-exchange.org/attachments/20230804/ed6c3463/attachment-0002.eml>

-- next part --
An embedded message was scrubbed...
From: Article Digests for Psychology & Social Work
 
Subject: Your Daily digest for NASW Social Workers Speak Daily Digest
Date: Fri,  4 Aug 2023 14:29:54 + (UTC)
Size: 18553
URL: 
<http://lists.clinicians-exchange.org/private.cgi/clinicians-exchange-clinicians-exchange.org/attachments/20230804/ed6c3463/attachment-0003.eml>

-- next part --
An embedded message was scrubbed...
From: Article Digests for Psychology & Social Work
 
Subject: Your Daily digest for NYU Information for Practice Daily Digest
Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2023 19:51:59 +000

[Mailman-Users] Questions About "An embedded message was scrubbed..."

[Michael Reeder -- Hygeia MS]

Apologies if this is too simple for this list -- I have tried looking 
through the online documentation and even this list's archive...


SIMPLE VERSION OF QUESTION:
I'm trying to find out how to stop a list from scrubbing embedded messages.

Does it have something to do with content filtering?  ( 
https://docs.mailman3.org/projects/mailman/en/latest/src/mailman/handlers/docs/filtering.html 
)



BACKGROUND:
I have GNU Mailman List #1 that is an announcements only list.  It 
receives multiple emails of multiple rss feeds from blogtrottr.com (an 
RSS feed to email service), collects them, then sends them all out as a 
daily digest.  So essentially it is a GNU Mailman digest of multiple 
Blogtrottr RSS feed digests.


**When List #1 is sent to an individual email address it works fine.**

When sent to a GNU Mailman List #2:
a) The email digest of List #1 NEVER gets emailed to List #2 members
b) The email digest of List #1 DOES appear in the archive of List #2 as 
having been sent.
c) In the archive of List #2 -- for each email in the List #1 digest -- 
the message "An embedded message was scrubbed..." appears.


It looks like this in the List #2 archive:

--START MESSAGE--
.
-- next part --
**THIS IS AN ANNOUNCEMENTS-ONLY LIST.**

RSS Feed articles from ACA Counseling Today, APA PsychPort, Healthcare 
Info Security, Health IT Security, NASW Social Workers Speak, NYT 
Psychology & Psychologists, NYU Information for Practice, Scientific 
American Mind & Body, Social Psychology Psychology Headlines, & The New 
Social Worker Careers Magazine.

__
-- next part --
Today's Topics:

   1. Your Daily digest for NYT Psychology & Psychologists Daily
  Digest (Article Digests for Psychology & Social Work)
   2. Your Daily digest for Social Psychology Psychology Headlines
  Daily Digest (Article Digests for Psychology & Social Work)
   3. Confirm your unsubscription from 'NYT > Psychology and
  Psychologists' (Article Digests for Psychology & Social Work)
   4. Your Daily digest for NASW Social Workers Speak Daily Digest
  (Article Digests for Psychology & Social Work)
   5. Your Daily digest for NYU Information for Practice Daily
  Digest (Article Digests for Psychology & Social Work)
-- next part --
An embedded message was scrubbed...
From: Article Digests for Psychology & Social Work
 
Subject: Your Daily digest for NYT Psychology & Psychologists Daily Digest
Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2023 20:08:07 +
Size: 3372
URL: 


-- next part --
An embedded message was scrubbed...
From: Article Digests for Psychology & Social Work
 
Subject: Your Daily digest for Social Psychology Psychology Headlines 
Daily Digest

Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2023 20:09:05 +
Size: 10905
URL: 


-- next part --
An embedded message was scrubbed...
From: Article Digests for Psychology & Social Work
 
Subject: Confirm your unsubscription from 'NYT > Psychology and 
Psychologists'

Date: Thu,  3 Aug 2023 20:20:56 + (UTC)
Size: 965
URL: 


-- next part --
An embedded message was scrubbed...
From: Article Digests for Psychology & Social Work
 
Subject: Your Daily digest for NASW Social Workers Speak Daily Digest
Date: Fri,  4 Aug 2023 14:29:54 + (UTC)
Size: 18553
URL: 


-- next part --
An embedded message was scrubbed...
From: Article Digests for Psychology & Social Work
 
Subject: Your Daily digest for NYU Information for Practice Daily Digest
Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2023 19:51:59 +
Size: 95307
URL: 


-- next part --
-
Replies to this list not permitted -- announcement-only list.

UNSUBSCRIBE: http://unsubscribe-article-digests.clinicians-exchange.org

SUBSCRIBE: http://subscribe-article-digests.clinicians-exchange.org

READ ONLINE: http://read-the-rss-mega-archive.clinicians-exchange.org

Contact article-digests-owner at clinicians-exchange.org with questions 
or concerns.


--STOP MESSAGE--

EXPLANATION OF WHY:
While I will ultimately have people sign-up directly for List #1 (while 
will work fine), I would like them to be able to see what it will be 
like (on List #2 for a week or so).  If I 

[Mailman-Users] Re: Dream Host GNU Mailman Nuked

[Michael Reeder -- Hygeia MS]

This issue slowly resolved this afternoon and GNU Mailman lists are 
operational again.


It was Saturday to this afternoon.

I'm pasting in the explanation below -- you only need to read further if 
you care why they had a service failure.  If I understand this right (I 
might not), they have an archive machine which is a single point of 
failure that had a power supply blow out.  I'm kind of wondering why the 
load is not distributed with some redundancy and fail-over capability?


~~~
Hello,

Please accept our apologies. On Saturday, November 26, one of the 
machines within our discussion list cluster had suffered a catastrophic 
hardware failure that impacted all discussion lists, both managing and 
utilizing. This machine was responsible for the bulk of the data 
archived for these lists.


Our technical operations team became aware of the issue when loads 
amongst the cluster began to rise and were unable to access the archive 
server for list data. After investigation, it was found that the 
archival machine was unreachable and required manual intervention to 
assess. Once the issue was discovered (bad power supply) they began 
discussing the proper paths forward to restore service without any data 
loss or data corruption. Due to the holiday season, it was decided to 
restore the machine with a repaired power supply and verify data 
integrity while planning a future maintenance to fully rebuild and 
reimage the machine sometime in January.


At time of writing all machines within the discussion list cluster are 
fully operational and list services are working as expected. If you are 
still experiencing any issues with discussion lists, please contact 
Technical Support for further assistance.


Thank you,

DreamHost Support
~~~

*Michael Reeder, LCPC
*
*Hygeia Counseling Services : Baltimore / Mt. Washington Village location*
*410-871-TALK / michael(at)hygeiacounseling.com*


On 11/29/2022 11:57 AM, Michael Reeder -- Hygeia MS wrote:
Dream Host had -- something -- happen over the holiday weekend.  As of 
right now, Tuesday 11/29 at 11:51am EST, I believe that all GNU 
Mailman lists are still offline.


I'm posting here in case any Dream Host list admins are not aware yet 
that your lists are likely not working.


The last message my list received was 8:08AM on Sunday (and traffic 
was unusually slow for two days before that).  My list is usually at 
its busiest on Sundays (semi-retired psychotherapists there as much 
for socialization as professionally).


Lists are not functioning and admin control panels not reachable. They 
also had other webserver and email problems Sunday and Monday that 
seem to be sorting out.


Yesterday they were saying they had a solution in mind.  At this 
moment their status webpage merely says "*[Identified]*Our Technical 
Operations team has identified an issue impacting Discussion Lists and 
is currently working on a resolution. We'll update this post with new 
information as it becomes available."


See: https://www.dreamhoststatus.com

-- Michael


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[Mailman-Users] Dream Host GNU Mailman Nuked

[Michael Reeder -- Hygeia MS]

Dream Host had -- something -- happen over the holiday weekend.  As of 
right now, Tuesday 11/29 at 11:51am EST, I believe that all GNU Mailman 
lists are still offline.


I'm posting here in case any Dream Host list admins are not aware yet 
that your lists are likely not working.


The last message my list received was 8:08AM on Sunday (and traffic was 
unusually slow for two days before that).  My list is usually at its 
busiest on Sundays (semi-retired psychotherapists there as much for 
socialization as professionally).


Lists are not functioning and admin control panels not reachable. They 
also had other webserver and email problems Sunday and Monday that seem 
to be sorting out.


Yesterday they were saying they had a solution in mind.  At this moment 
their status webpage merely says "*[Identified]*Our Technical Operations 
team has identified an issue impacting Discussion Lists and is currently 
working on a resolution. We'll update this post with new information as 
it becomes available."


See: https://www.dreamhoststatus.com

-- Michael

--
*Michael Reeder, LCPC
*
*Hygeia Counseling Services : Baltimore / Mt. Washington Village location*
*410-871-TALK / michael(at)hygeiacounseling.com*
*http://www.hygeiacounseling.com - main website.
*
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[Mailman-Users] More on AT Policies - Allowing Through Daily Digests

[Michael Reeder -- Hygeia MS]

FYI for those plagued by AT "spam" management policies:

I've continued to monitor my own test AT email account. I've recently 
noticed that AT in september started:

a) letting through a very few list emails again to my inbox,
b) letting a few more list messages through to my spam folder,
c) continued to block most list messages entirely, and
d) **ALLOWED THROUGH ALL DAILY DIGEST EMAILS!**

So if there are 15 messages in a day -- 2 will make it to the Inbox, 3 
will make it to Spam, and 10 will disappear to the byte bucket in the 
sky.  All daily digest make it to the inbox (at least for my one att.net 
account).


Please note that this was after no further server settings changes (that 
I am aware of) than when they blocked ALL list messages.


*/I have resubscribed every former AT member to the daily digest 
version of our list./**/

/*
We continue to recommend not using email addresses managed by AT -- 
but I see an opportunity here to test if we can at least get back 
members for our daily digest option.  Fingers crossed it keeps working...


Thanks,
Michael Reeder LCPC
Moderator Team Member
moderat...@clinicians-exchange.org
mich...@securemail.hygeiacounseling.com
Baltimore, MD
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[Mailman-Users] Re: AOL -- Automatically Sending List to Spam Folder

[Michael Reeder -- Hygeia MS]

I Wrote:
"Happily -- this seems a pretty easy fix (unspam our list email address 
once)."


Now I'm getting reports back that AOL (@yahoo.com mail accounts not yet 
a problem) don't always follow their own guidance and sometimes continue 
to spam our email address even after it has been marked as OK multiple 
times.  In my own AOL test account, marking our list email address as OK 
has worked perfectly so far.


I'm now suggesting that people also make filter rules to move incoming 
list emails into a Clinicians Exchange subfolder.  Will see if that 
works...



*Michael Reeder, LCPC
*
*Hygeia Counseling Services : Baltimore / Mt. Washington Village location*
*410-871-TALK / michael(at)hygeiacounseling.com*


On 10/19/2022 4:44 PM, Michael Reeder -- Hygeia MS wrote:
*It looks like AOL is now automatically adding our Clinicians Exchange 
list messages to the Spam Folder. * I don't know yet if this is 
happening for all AOL members.


When I created an AOL account today, it did this from moment one.

I just individually emailed all our AOL members from outside the list 
with directions on how to get into their Spam Folder.   They need to 
click the checkbox to the left of messages that are not spam, then 
click on the "OK" icon above the message list and they will be moved 
to the inbox.  Supposedly this will stop them from being spammed in 
the future.


I see no way to create a safe list or white list in AOL.  The option 
also does not exist in their filters option.

*
*All AOL member email addresses remain in good standing in our 
Clinicians Exchange member database (they have not been deactivated).  
When I look at our bounce messages, AOL is sending us nothing to tell 
us they are spamming or discarding our list messages, so I have no 
feedback from them to know what setting changes would stop this from 
happening.


*Happily -- this seems a pretty easy fix (unspam our list email 
address once).  Not happily, people still on AOL are not very 
technically-minded generally and lots of our members are in their 70s 
and 80s.**

*
Thanks,
Michael
moderat...@clinicians-exchange.org


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[Mailman-Users] Re: AOL -- Automatically Sending List to Spam Folder

[Michael Reeder -- Hygeia MS]

Mark,

Highly appreciated!  I'll work on figuring this out when I have a 
moment.  They sure are not making this easy for volunteer administrators 
with full-time jobs.


Mark Wrote:
I see from your posts in the thread at 
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/thread/W2D3ISFWJ4MZ6ATYXPWY3DS7QOYB2RFG/ 
that you are DKIM signing your mail and have SPF. You should also ensure 
you have full circle DNS 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forward-confirmed_reverse_DNS.



*Michael Reeder, LCPC
*
*Hygeia Counseling Services : Baltimore / Mt. Washington Village location*
*410-871-TALK / michael(at)hygeiacounseling.com*

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[Mailman-Users] Re: AOL -- Automatically Sending List to Spam Folder

[Michael Reeder -- Hygeia MS]

Dima,

Well, no, I'm not sure...  This would be something approaching ironic.  
The group started out on Yahoo Groups, was there for 19 years, then its 
Yahoo that starts filtering the same group name they allowed for two 
decades.


Wow.

-- Michael

*Michael Reeder, LCPC
*
*Hygeia Counseling Services : Baltimore / Mt. Washington Village location*
*410-871-TALK / michael(at)hygeiacounseling.com*


On 10/19/2022 6:19 PM, dmitri maziuk wrote:

On 2022-10-19 3:44 PM, Michael Reeder -- Hygeia MS wrote:
*It looks like AOL is now automatically adding our Clinicians 
Exchange list messages to the Spam Folder.


Are you sure it's not filtering on "s-ex"?

Dima


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[Mailman-Users] AOL -- Automatically Sending List to Spam Folder

[Michael Reeder -- Hygeia MS]

*It looks like AOL is now automatically adding our Clinicians Exchange 
list messages to the Spam Folder. * I don't know yet if this is 
happening for all AOL members.


When I created an AOL account today, it did this from moment one.

I just individually emailed all our AOL members from outside the list 
with directions on how to get into their Spam Folder.   They need to 
click the checkbox to the left of messages that are not spam, then click 
on the "OK" icon above the message list and they will be moved to the 
inbox.  Supposedly this will stop them from being spammed in the future.


I see no way to create a safe list or white list in AOL.  The option 
also does not exist in their filters option.

*
*All AOL member email addresses remain in good standing in our 
Clinicians Exchange member database (they have not been deactivated).  
When I look at our bounce messages, AOL is sending us nothing to tell us 
they are spamming or discarding our list messages, so I have no feedback 
from them to know what setting changes would stop this from happening.


*Happily -- this seems a pretty easy fix (unspam our list email address 
once).  Not happily, people still on AOL are not very technically-minded 
generally and lots of our members are in their 70s and 80s.**

*
Thanks,
Michael
moderat...@clinicians-exchange.org

--
*Michael Reeder, LCPC
*
*Hygeia Counseling Services : Baltimore / Mt. Washington Village location*
*410-871-TALK / michael(at)hygeiacounseling.com*
*http://www.hygeiacounseling.com - main website.
*
**
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[Mailman-Users] Re: AT Blocking (was AOL list member not receiving list traffic)

[Michael Reeder -- Hygeia MS]

Responding in purple for those who have colors and fonts on.

On 9/5/2022 9:19 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

Michael Reeder -- Hygeia MS writes:

  > AT has now started blocking the IP address of the multiple
  > auto-forwarding email addresses I set up to get around them blocking the
  > IP address of my GNU Mailman list.

I have to conclude AT wants to get rid of their email provision
activity.

Is there possibly something somebody could consider spammy in your
content, such as frequent or repeated announcements of new services or
invitations to events?  Do members ever report the list traffic being
marked as (potential) spam?  Are these discussion lists among the
members, or is it all announcements from your side?
Few frequent or repeated announcements or event invitations (we don't 
allow paid event ads).  I suppose the list headers and footers 
themselves could look too frequent.


No known instances of members reporting us as spam.

There is lots of ongoing discussion amongst members -- not an 
announcement list.



  > 37 list members at risk unless they change their email addresses.

AT hates them, so I recommend they get an alternative address for
list mail and eventually get off AT altogether.  It's not going to
get better, I imagine.  But most likely they won't change until they
get sued for nonpayment of bills invoiced to their AT address. :-/

We are now requiring them to get non-AT addresses.  A shame really.


  > We started 20+ years ago with a different list program and hosting
  > provider, so we have lots of legacy members suddenly getting cut off.

Do you keep archives?  If so, an RSS feed might be the way to
communicate to them in somewhat less than real time.  Similarly,
moving to Mailman 3 + HyperKitty allows use of the archives in a way
quite similar to dedicated web forum software like Discourse.
Finally (though I hate to recommend it) you could move to forum
software or Google Groups.
Mailman 3 and HyperKitty may be an option if we port away from Dream 
Host management of GNU Mailman where we don't have command line access.  
That said, Dream Host is responsive to concerns so I do not intend to 
throw them under the bus for having some restrictions.


I'll look into RSS feeds...

I have considered forum software (like phpBB) and Google Groups. This 
becomes more attractive the more large players give us problems.  I am 
dumping AT users, have special directions in place for 
Microsoft/Hotmail users, and am wondering if we are about to have 
further problems with AOL and Gmail.  At some point this gets unsustainable.



I'm sorry to be putting all the work on you, but I don't think there's
anything Mailman can do.  It seems AT just doesn't want your list
traffic.

Steve
Steve -- I agree there is not much Mailman can do.  I need some 
combination of more admin knowledge of DMARC/SPF, command line access, 
different software, and/or hosting the group at a larger industry player 
like Google Groups that I suspect is not given so much guff simply 
because they are Google.


-- Michael
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[Mailman-Users] Re: AT Blocking (was AOL list member not receiving list traffic)

[Michael Reeder -- Hygeia MS]

AT has now started blocking the IP address of the multiple 
auto-forwarding email addresses I set up to get around them blocking the 
IP address of my GNU Mailman list.  So even that labor-intensive 
strategy won't work.  You'd have to be sending from multiple different 
IP addresses.


Dream Host to their credit jumped right on this and also tried to 
resolve the problem with AT  No responses from AT This includes 
sbcglobal.net, att.net, flash.net, bellsouth.net, optonline.net, 
worldnet.att, and ameritech.net .


37 list members at risk unless they change their email addresses. We 
started 20+ years ago with a different list program and hosting 
provider, so we have lots of legacy members suddenly getting cut off.


*Michael Reeder, LCPC
*
*Hygeia Counseling Services : Baltimore / Mt. Washington Village location*
*410-871-TALK / michael(at)hygeiacounseling.com*


On 8/28/2022 4:17 PM, Michael Reeder -- Hygeia MS wrote:
I should mention that for the free att.net account I set up (managed 
by Yahoo) that as the end user I received *NO* notifications of any 
sort.  List emails were not even sent to a Spam folder!


*Michael Reeder, LCPC
*
*Hygeia Counseling Services : Baltimore / Mt. Washington Village 
location*

*410-871-TALK / michael(at)hygeiacounseling.com*

On 8/28/2022 4:08 PM, Michael Reeder -- Hygeia MS wrote:
Dave Nathanson wrote: /"I'm having a similar struggle with 
sbcglobal.net & ATT.net addresses - They are rejecting our list mail 
with a reject notice"/


I can second this.  I believe AT has been blocking for months or 
years, but with Dream Host rebuilding their discussion list servers 
in July, it gave AT a new opportunity to reblock us anew and a new 
opportunity for list administrators of GNU Mailman lists hosted at 
Dream Host to notice.


I have 36 list users all blocked from AT managed accounts at the 
following domains: sbcglobal.net, att.net, flash.net, bellsouth.net, 
optonline.net, worldnet.att, and ameritech.net


Almost all of these flow through email servers at the prodigy.net 
domain, but please notice that this also includes att.net domains 
managed for AT by Yahoo (no Prodigy servers involved).


AT has ignored my (very polite) screams for months, and this week 
Dream Host support reported back that AT is no longer answering 
their inquiries.  According to Dream Host, AT recently blocked 8 
additional IP blocks (or just IP addresses?). For one of them, AT 
responded saying it was in error (and unblocking it) and saying 
something to the effect that they block any IP block sending too many 
email.  For the other 7, crickets.


I do observe that my IP block is on the UCEPROTECTL3 blacklist, 
although I don't know that AT is using it.  UCEPROTECTL3 would, 
however, be happy to "express delist" my particular IP address as its 
doing nothing wrong for the low, low price of only $25 per month.  
Jerks!


I have (temporarily?) fixed this by creating nine or so auto-forward 
email addresses that auto-forward to 5 AT accounts each. (Dream 
Host users: you can't just create one auto-forward address to send to 
everyone because Dream Host themselves limit email addresses to about 
30 emails sent per hour.  Also -- with Dream Host auto-forward only 
email addresses you won't see bounce traffic when AT starts 
blocking again.)


What a mess.

-- Michael

*Michael Reeder, LCPC
*
*Hygeia Counseling Services : Baltimore / Mt. Washington Village 
location*

*410-871-TALK / michael(at)hygeiacounseling.com*


On 8/27/2022 4:09 PM, Dave Nathanson wrote:
I'm having a similar struggle with sbcglobal.net & ATT.net addresses 
- They are rejecting our list mail with a reject notice, but let 
individual messages through. I have different outgoing server  for 
mailman. My servers are hosted at Dreamhost, who generally has very 
helpful support, but in the past 3 weeks they are not able to 
convince sbcglobal & att to let our mail through because they banned 
our IP block.


I did set Mailman to give me notice for each bounce notification so 
I could see what was going on, and when the bounce counters were 
incremented. That helped me be more aware.


Immensely frustrating, as almost half of our list members have 
sbcglobal or ATT & are losing contact with our group.


  Best,
  Dave Nathanson
  Mac Medix

On Aug 26, 2022, at 10:36 PM, Jayson 
Smith  wrote:


Hi,

Yesterday I received a report from an AOL user that she's not 
receiving traffic from one of my lists. The problem here is that my 
server logs show outgoing mail being accepted by AOL's incoming 
mail servers, and of course after that it's anyone's guess what 
happens to them. She says she's checked her junkmail folder and the 
messages aren't there. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Is 
AOL known to silently discard mail they think is spam for some 
reason? I replied to her message from the same server and she did 
receive that reply, so they haven't outright blocked my IP or 
something. Even if I 

[Mailman-Users] Re: AOL list member not receiving list traffic

[Michael Reeder -- Hygeia MS]

Oh bloody heck -- I see I had about 8 aol.com addresses bounce on 
8/13/22 -- so I likely have this problem too!


I think I have have dkim and spf set up properly, but who knows.  I have 
seen the tutorals on this list (thanks).  Also the munge settings.  I'll 
go look for SMTP_MAX_RCPTS and set it to 5.


My yahoo.com members are receiving email just fine (lots of older people 
on my list).  Gmail is no longer getting yellow boxes after Dream Host 
made an spf change for me.


*Michael Reeder, LCPC
*
*Hygeia Counseling Services : Baltimore / Mt. Washington Village location*
*410-871-TALK / michael(at)hygeiacounseling.com*


On 8/27/2022 9:16 AM, Jon Baron wrote:

On 08/27/22 08:38, Robert Heller wrote:

At Sat, 27 Aug 2022 01:36:26 -0400 Jayson Smith  
wrote:


Hi,

Yesterday I received a report from an AOL user that she's not receiving
traffic from one of my lists. The problem here is that my server logs
show outgoing mail being accepted by AOL's incoming mail servers, and of
course after that it's anyone's guess what happens to them. She says
she's checked her junkmail folder and the messages aren't there. Does
anyone have any thoughts on this? Is AOL known to silently discard mail
they think is spam for some reason? I replied to her message from the
same server and she did receive that reply, so they haven't outright
blocked my IP or something. Even if I could contact someone who knows
what they're doing at AOL, there are no error logs for me to show.

AOL got absorbed into Yahoo, which in turn got absorbed into Verizon, which in
turn split off Yahoo mail to a holding company. So, yeah, it is anyone's guess
what is happening off in Yahoo-mail land.  *Yahoo* is known to greylist
mailling list posts, either because Yahoo thinks they are spam or simply
because it is getting too many messages from a given source.  If the latter,
configuring mailman to send fewer messages at a time might help.

Question: are there other people on your list with any of these addresses:

 @yahoo.com
 @verizon.net
 @aol.com
 @netscape.com

FWIW, I have 99 yahoo.com members on my largest list (4300 total), 13
aol.com, and 3 verizon.net. I never have problems with these, not even
gray listing (which is not terrible when it happens, since the post is
eventually delivered). I do have SMTP_MAX_RCPTS set to 5, which may
help. I also have dkim and spf set up properly.

That said, my problems with all Microsoft addresses (outlook, hotmail,
live, ssn) were so bad that finally I just abolished them from the
list. But this was not a problem specific to Mailman.

Jon

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[Mailman-Users] Re: AT Blocking (was AOL list member not receiving list traffic)

[Michael Reeder -- Hygeia MS]

I should mention that for the free att.net account I set up (managed by 
Yahoo) that as the end user I received *NO* notifications of any sort.  
List emails were not even sent to a Spam folder!


*Michael Reeder, LCPC
*
*Hygeia Counseling Services : Baltimore / Mt. Washington Village location*
*410-871-TALK / michael(at)hygeiacounseling.com*

On 8/28/2022 4:08 PM, Michael Reeder -- Hygeia MS wrote:
Dave Nathanson wrote: /"I'm having a similar struggle with 
sbcglobal.net & ATT.net addresses - They are rejecting our list mail 
with a reject notice"/


I can second this.  I believe AT has been blocking for months or 
years, but with Dream Host rebuilding their discussion list servers in 
July, it gave AT a new opportunity to reblock us anew and a new 
opportunity for list administrators of GNU Mailman lists hosted at 
Dream Host to notice.


I have 36 list users all blocked from AT managed accounts at the 
following domains: sbcglobal.net, att.net, flash.net, bellsouth.net, 
optonline.net, worldnet.att, and ameritech.net


Almost all of these flow through email servers at the prodigy.net 
domain, but please notice that this also includes att.net domains 
managed for AT by Yahoo (no Prodigy servers involved).


AT has ignored my (very polite) screams for months, and this week 
Dream Host support reported back that AT is no longer answering 
their inquiries.  According to Dream Host, AT recently blocked 8 
additional IP blocks (or just IP addresses?). For one of them, AT 
responded saying it was in error (and unblocking it) and saying 
something to the effect that they block any IP block sending too many 
email.  For the other 7, crickets.


I do observe that my IP block is on the UCEPROTECTL3 blacklist, 
although I don't know that AT is using it.  UCEPROTECTL3 would, 
however, be happy to "express delist" my particular IP address as its 
doing nothing wrong for the low, low price of only $25 per month.  Jerks!


I have (temporarily?) fixed this by creating nine or so auto-forward 
email addresses that auto-forward to 5 AT accounts each. (Dream Host 
users: you can't just create one auto-forward address to send to 
everyone because Dream Host themselves limit email addresses to about 
30 emails sent per hour.  Also -- with Dream Host auto-forward only 
email addresses you won't see bounce traffic when AT starts blocking 
again.)


What a mess.

-- Michael

*Michael Reeder, LCPC
*
*Hygeia Counseling Services : Baltimore / Mt. Washington Village 
location*

*410-871-TALK / michael(at)hygeiacounseling.com*


On 8/27/2022 4:09 PM, Dave Nathanson wrote:
I'm having a similar struggle with sbcglobal.net & ATT.net addresses 
- They are rejecting our list mail with a reject notice, but let 
individual messages through. I have different outgoing server  for 
mailman. My servers are hosted at Dreamhost, who generally has very 
helpful support, but in the past 3 weeks they are not able to 
convince sbcglobal & att to let our mail through because they banned 
our IP block.


I did set Mailman to give me notice for each bounce notification so I 
could see what was going on, and when the bounce counters were 
incremented. That helped me be more aware.


Immensely frustrating, as almost half of our list members have 
sbcglobal or ATT & are losing contact with our group.


  Best,
  Dave Nathanson
  Mac Medix

On Aug 26, 2022, at 10:36 PM, Jayson 
Smith  wrote:


Hi,

Yesterday I received a report from an AOL user that she's not 
receiving traffic from one of my lists. The problem here is that my 
server logs show outgoing mail being accepted by AOL's incoming mail 
servers, and of course after that it's anyone's guess what happens 
to them. She says she's checked her junkmail folder and the messages 
aren't there. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Is AOL known to 
silently discard mail they think is spam for some reason? I replied 
to her message from the same server and she did receive that reply, 
so they haven't outright blocked my IP or something. Even if I could 
contact someone who knows what they're doing at AOL, there are no 
error logs for me to show.



Jayson


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[Mailman-Users] AT Blocking (was AOL list member not receiving list traffic)

[Michael Reeder -- Hygeia MS]

Dave Nathanson wrote: /"I'm having a similar struggle with sbcglobal.net 
& ATT.net addresses - They are rejecting our list mail with a reject 
notice"/


I can second this.  I believe AT has been blocking for months or 
years, but with Dream Host rebuilding their discussion list servers in 
July, it gave AT a new opportunity to reblock us anew and a new 
opportunity for list administrators of GNU Mailman lists hosted at Dream 
Host to notice.


I have 36 list users all blocked from AT managed accounts at the 
following domains: sbcglobal.net, att.net, flash.net, bellsouth.net, 
optonline.net, worldnet.att, and ameritech.net


Almost all of these flow through email servers at the prodigy.net 
domain, but please notice that this also includes att.net domains 
managed for AT by Yahoo (no Prodigy servers involved).


AT has ignored my (very polite) screams for months, and this week 
Dream Host support reported back that AT is no longer answering their 
inquiries.  According to Dream Host, AT recently blocked 8 additional 
IP blocks (or just IP addresses?). For one of them, AT responded 
saying it was in error (and unblocking it) and saying something to the 
effect that they block any IP block sending too many email.  For the 
other 7, crickets.


I do observe that my IP block is on the UCEPROTECTL3 blacklist, although 
I don't know that AT is using it.  UCEPROTECTL3 would, however, be 
happy to "express delist" my particular IP address as its doing nothing 
wrong for the low, low price of only $25 per month.  Jerks!


I have (temporarily?) fixed this by creating nine or so auto-forward 
email addresses that auto-forward to 5 AT accounts each. (Dream Host 
users: you can't just create one auto-forward address to send to 
everyone because Dream Host themselves limit email addresses to about 30 
emails sent per hour.  Also -- with Dream Host auto-forward only email 
addresses you won't see bounce traffic when AT starts blocking again.)


What a mess.

-- Michael

*Michael Reeder, LCPC
*
*Hygeia Counseling Services : Baltimore / Mt. Washington Village location*
*410-871-TALK / michael(at)hygeiacounseling.com*


On 8/27/2022 4:09 PM, Dave Nathanson wrote:

I'm having a similar struggle with sbcglobal.net & ATT.net addresses - They are 
rejecting our list mail with a reject notice, but let individual messages through. I 
have different outgoing server  for mailman. My servers are hosted at Dreamhost, who 
generally has very helpful support, but in the past 3 weeks they are not able to 
convince sbcglobal & att to let our mail through because they banned our IP block.

I did set Mailman to give me notice for each bounce notification so I could see 
what was going on, and when the bounce counters were incremented. That helped 
me be more aware.

Immensely frustrating, as almost half of our list members have sbcglobal or ATT 
& are losing contact with our group.

  Best,
  Dave Nathanson
  Mac Medix
  


On Aug 26, 2022, at 10:36 PM, Jayson Smith  wrote:

Hi,

Yesterday I received a report from an AOL user that she's not receiving traffic 
from one of my lists. The problem here is that my server logs show outgoing 
mail being accepted by AOL's incoming mail servers, and of course after that 
it's anyone's guess what happens to them. She says she's checked her junkmail 
folder and the messages aren't there. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Is 
AOL known to silently discard mail they think is spam for some reason? I 
replied to her message from the same server and she did receive that reply, so 
they haven't outright blocked my IP or something. Even if I could contact 
someone who knows what they're doing at AOL, there are no error logs for me to 
show.


Jayson


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[Mailman-Users] Dream Host -- Google Yellow Boxes -- GNU Mailman

[Michael Reeder -- Hygeia MS]

In the unlikely event that there is anyone else on the list with a GNU 
Mailman list on Dream Host servers, here is the DNS Record entry that 
you apparently have to enter yourself for your domain unless you seek 
out Dream Host staff assistance (and they are happy to help).


NAME: lists
TYPE: TXT
VALUE: v=spf1 mx include:netblocks.dreamhost.com 
include:relay.mailchannels.net -all


Dream Host also recommends enabling Munge From in the administrative 
interface of the list.

*
Michael Reeder, LCPC
*
*Hygeia Counseling Services : Baltimore / Mt. Washington Village location*
*410-871-TALK / michael(at)hygeiacounseling.com*
*http://www.hygeiacounseling.com - main website.
*

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[Mailman-Users] Re: B.S. With Google Yellow Boxes and GNU Mailman

[Michael Reeder -- Hygeia MS]

Mark,

This is the DNS record entry that seems to have fixed the problem:
NAME: @
TYPE: TXT
VALUE: v=spf1 mx include:netblocks.dreamhost.com 
include:relay.mailchannels.net -all


Dream Host runs GNU Mailman version 2.1.39 (but I SWEAR it was 2.1.23 
earlier this morning!).


I already had General Options set to "Munge From" all along (including 
when I as getting Gmail yellow box).


Under Privacy options... -> Sender filters, I have:
dmarc_moderation_action = Accept
dmarc_quarantine_moderation_action = Yes

Possibly stupid question -- Does it make any sense to also change 
dmarc_moderation_action to Munge From under Privacy options --> Sender 
Filters?


Thanks,
Michael

*Michael Reeder, LCPC
*
*Hygeia Counseling Services : Baltimore / Mt. Washington Village location*
*410-871-TALK / michael(at)hygeiacounseling.com*


On 8/2/2022 4:50 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

On 8/2/22 11:43, Michael Reeder LCPC -- Hygeia Regular wrote:


Gmail is also indicating:
SPF:?? NEUTRAL with IP 64.90.62.202
DKIM:?? 'FAIL' with domain gmail.com


Dreamhost should be DKIM signing the outgoing list mail with the 
list's domain. If they aren't you can ask them to do it, and they can 
come here for help if they need it.


It may not be an issue, but you should also enable DMARC mitigations. 
For Mailman >= 2.1.18, in Privacy options... -> Sender filters, set 
dmarc_moderation_action to Munge From and 
dmarc_quarantine_moderation_action) to Yes. Older versions 2.1.16 and 
2.1.17 you can set General Options from_is list to Munge From, but 
this requires setting ALLOW_FROM_IS_LIST to Yes in mm_cfg.py. This is 
also available in 2.1.18+, and will apply mitigations to all messages, 
not just ones publishing DMARC polocy reject or quarantine,



This is freaking out a few of my users. I'm attaching a screenshot of 
the message and source code for the same message.?? Hopefully this 
list allows attachments...


Not images, only attached messages, text and pgp ang pkcs7 signatures.


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[Mailman-Users] Re: B.S. With Google Yellow Boxes and GNU Mailman

[Michael Reeder -- Hygeia MS]

Steve,

The list already uses the General "Munge_From" feature and I like having 
reply to list be the default.  Will keep ARC in mind.


I don't think I am getting DMARC bounces...

FYI -- This the DNS entry that seems to have done the job fixing the 
problem I think:

NAME: @
TYPE: TXT
VALUE: v=spf1 mx include:netblocks.dreamhost.com 
include:relay.mailchannels.net -all


-- Michael

*Michael Reeder, LCPC
*
*Hygeia Counseling Services : Baltimore / Mt. Washington Village location*
*410-871-TALK / michael(at)hygeiacounseling.com*
*http://www.hygeiacounseling.com - main website.
*


On 8/3/2022 7:55 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

Michael Reeder -- Hygeia MS writes:

  > *For now -- problem solved!**

Good news!

  > I will take a look at Mark's DMARC mitigations below also.

You may also want to ask Dreamhost if they can enable the ARC protocol
for your host.  This protocol allows your host to testify which
authentication tests passed on the way in, in particular DMARC's "From
alignment".  This means that the host takes responsibility for the
changes in the message (such as adding a list name tag in Subject or a
footer explaining how to access list resources, which break DKIM
signatures).

The difference between using ARC and the DMARC mitigations Mark
mentions are

1.  ARC allows your list to leave From as is, while the Munge_From
 options change From to point to your list, instead.  "Munge From"
 may confuse some subscribers (or their filtering and sorting
 software), although that's usually not a problem.

2.  ARC requires that the final recipient participate in the protocol.
 Most of the largest freemail sites support it.  On the other hand,
 "Munge From" allows your site to authenticate itself, since it
 DKIM signs and From is the same domain as the signature.

Which is better depends on the tradeoff between some inconvenience for
subscribers who want to reply to author only when From is munged, and
the risk of having sites that don't participate in ARC bouncing your
traffic.

If you aren't getting DMARC bounces already, I would suppose ARC would
be good insurance against some (but not all) DMARC bounces in the
future.  If you are, you might want to go straight to Munge From
rather than try ARC and hope it fixes them for all current and future
recipient hosts.

Steve

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[Mailman-Users] Re: B.S. With Google Yellow Boxes and GNU Mailman

[Michael Reeder -- Hygeia MS]

Thank you all!

Dream Host added an SPF DNS record:

/"They're [Google] looking for a DNS record called SPF that defines what 
mail servers are allowed for lists.clinicians-exchange.org.  I have 
added one as a courtesy."//

/
*For now -- problem solved!**
*
I will take a look at Mark's DMARC mitigations below also.

Thanks,
Michael

*Michael Reeder, LCPC
*
*Hygeia Counseling Services : Baltimore / Mt. Washington Village location*
*410-871-TALK / michael(at)hygeiacounseling.com*
*http://www.hygeiacounseling.com - main website.
*


On 8/2/2022 4:50 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

On 8/2/22 11:43, Michael Reeder LCPC -- Hygeia Regular wrote:


Gmail is also indicating:
SPF:?? NEUTRAL with IP 64.90.62.202
DKIM:?? 'FAIL' with domain gmail.com


Dreamhost should be DKIM signing the outgoing list mail with the 
list's domain. If they aren't you can ask them to do it, and they can 
come here for help if they need it.


It may not be an issue, but you should also enable DMARC mitigations. 
For Mailman >= 2.1.18, in Privacy options... -> Sender filters, set 
dmarc_moderation_action to Munge From and 
dmarc_quarantine_moderation_action) to Yes. Older versions 2.1.16 and 
2.1.17 you can set General Options from_is list to Munge From, but 
this requires setting ALLOW_FROM_IS_LIST to Yes in mm_cfg.py. This is 
also available in 2.1.18+, and will apply mitigations to all messages, 
not just ones publishing DMARC polocy reject or quarantine,



This is freaking out a few of my users. I'm attaching a screenshot of 
the message and source code for the same message.?? Hopefully this 
list allows attachments...


Not images, only attached messages, text and pgp ang pkcs7 signatures.


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[Mailman-Users] Re: Hotmail complaint about list message, but complainant says she never marked anything as junk?

[Michael Reeder -- Hygeia MS]

Bruce,

I don't have a specific answer to your problem, but ask your user to add 
your list to the "Safe User" (whitelist) in her email account. Might 
help.  Directions here:


https://www.clinicians-exchange.org/fix-hotmail-and-outlook-to-allow-safe-mailing-lists/

Thanks,
Michael

*Michael Reeder, LCPC
*
*Hygeia Counseling Services : Baltimore / Mt. Washington Village location*
*410-871-TALK / michael(at)hygeiacounseling.com*
*http://www.hygeiacounseling.com - main website.
*


On 4/6/2022 6:51 PM, Bruce Johnson via Mailman-Users wrote:

I don’t know about hotmail/msn specifically but Yahoo and AOL (if AOL actually 
still exists!) are notorious for deciding for a user that something is spam and 
generating a complaint. I know I’ve seen similar issues on another list I 
manage (not using mailman, though)

On Apr 6, 2022, at 3:40 PM, Jayson Smith 
mailto:jayb...@bluegrasspals.com>> wrote:

Hi,


I run a relatively low traffic Email list on my VPS at Linode. Twice within the last two weeks, I've 
received an Email fromst...@hotmail.com  with the subject 
"Complaint about message from XX.XX.XX.XX" where XX.XX.XX.XX is my IP. I'm signed up for 
Microsoft's Junkmail Reporting Program, and this is the first time I've ever received a complaint 
from them. Using message headers, I've identified the complainant to be the same list member both 
times. The actual Emails fromst...@hotmail.com  have nothing in the 
body, and the complained about message as an attachment.


Obviously I can't have complaints tarnishing my Email sending reputation, so I 
contacted her to see if she was legitimately marking messages as spam/junk, or was 
doing it by accident, etc. Her response is that she has never marked any Emails from 
my list as spam or junk. In case it matters as far as the user interface goes, her 
Email address is at the msn.com  domain. Obviously *something* 
has to be causing complaints to be generated, so if she's not doing it, what could be 
causing this? Are there any automated processes at Microsoft that could cause a 
complaint of this type to be generated? Is she somehow marking messages as spam or 
junk without realizing it?


Thanks for any thoughts,


Jayson


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--
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

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[Mailman-Users] Re: Charter occasionally bouncing mail

[Michael Reeder -- Hygeia MS]

Thank you Mark -- I'll play with that setting.

-- Michael

*Michael Reeder, LCPC
*
*Hygeia Counseling Services : Baltimore / Mt. Washington Village location*
*410-871-TALK / michael(at)hygeiacounseling.com*
*http://www.hygeiacounseling.com - main website.
*


On 11/29/2021 11:41 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

On 11/29/21 2:24 PM, Michael Reeder -- Hygeia MS wrote:


Regarding Microsoft-hosted email -- they also frequently block ALL 
lists on the basis that the email was not specifically addressed to 
the recipient.



If you enable full personalization for a list, mail from the list will 
be addressed To: the individual recipient.



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[Mailman-Users] Re: Charter occasionally bouncing mail

[Michael Reeder -- Hygeia MS]

Regarding Microsoft-hosted email -- they also frequently block ALL lists 
on the basis that the email was not specifically addressed to the recipient.


I wrote a tutorial for my users about how to add my list addresses to 
the safe senders list (known elsewhere as a white list).


It is found here:
https://www.clinicians-exchange.org/fix-hotmail-and-outlook-to-allow-safe-mailing-lists/

At the time I was mainly thinking its a Hotmail problem -- but it's any 
email address on any domain hosted at Microsoft.


They also seem to do this for any email forwarded from another address 
-- very annoying when lots of email is being auto-forwarded. Does not 
seem fixable by any setting that either the email account holder or the 
email company administrator can adjust.


Michael Reeder
Hygeia Counseling Services
mich...@hygeiacounseling.com
(Now auto-forwarded to an address hosted at Microsoft so I have to safe 
list every blessed new sender!)



-- Original message--
*From: *Jon Baron
*Date: *Mon, Nov 29, 2021 6:57 AM
*To: *Jayson Smith;
*Cc: *mailman-users@python.org;
*Subject:*[Mailman-Users] Re: Charter occasionally bouncing mail

I have had a lot of experience with these things. Here are some
observations. I have a list of 4000+ subscribers around the world. I
have SPF and DKIM but not DMARC. (I never say much point in DMARC, and
it does not seem necessary.) Right now every single one of the 4000+
subscribers accepts the mail, most of the time. Occasionally I get
msssages (from Europe) saying that the mail has been blocked because
it is a "high probability of spam" or "looks like spam". This drives
me crazy. These spam-blocking systems are unregulated. They are like
snake oil. They should not be blocking mail without telling the
recipients, and this is what happens.

A few times, Microsoft has started blocking mail to ALL addresses with
domains of outlook, hotmail, msn, or live. Sometimes this was the
result of what you are talking about. I was told to sign up for
various things, including "sender support":
https://sendersupport.olc.protection.outlook.com/snds/
You can get data on what proportion of your mail counts as spam (if
you have enough mail, as we do). When they block mail, you can
complain:
https://support.microsoft.com/supportrequestform/8ad563e3-288e-2a61-8122-3ba03d6b8d75
(the one that works for me) or just
https://support.microsoft.com/supportrequestform/

If you complain, you will get an automatic reply saying that your
problem does not qualify for mitigation and that they are almost
always correct. Then you have to respond to that. After a few rounds
of this, you will get a response from what seems to be a human being,
who will tell you that they are taking your problem very seriously,
yada yada.

The last time this happened, they were completely blocking all make for
over a week, because my IPV4 address (the one they use) was part of a
range of addresses from which spam was being sent. Of course, I have
only one ipv4 address (from a cloud server, Linode). The problem seems
fixed for now, but I am warning new subscribers not to use
Microsoft-controlled addresses.

Of course they won't tell you HOW they decide that something is spam,
as this information would just make it easier for spammers.

(But I don't see what is so bad about spam. You just delete it; it
helps if possible spam goes to a spefific folder, but any system I've
seen makes many mistakes both ways, except spamassassin, which rarely
makes a false positive. The real problem is phishing, and there have
been no randomized control trials to see whether any system can
immunize people against that. I doubt that these spam detectors do it
effectively.)

Some references:

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/outlook_com/forum/all/hotmailoutlook-block-list-s3140-blocks-all-new/699f3a56-406e-4804-97e2-cbe23b9bb01c?page=2

https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-us...@mailman3.org/thread/CQ6R3WUVVLNOA3UFFCM42GVPKQDC5SPC/

And there are several things like this:
https://mxtoolbox.com/blacklists.aspx

But the list called UCEPROTECT3 (I think) is now, happily, widely
ignored, because it is based on spam coming from a large range of ipv6
addresses on a cloud server. Spamhause does something like this too,
but you can fix it by getting a "proper" ipv6 address that specifies
the range ("/64" at the end).


Some geneneral

On 11/29/21 00:51, Jayson Smith wrote:

Hi again,

Good point about DMARC. Does anyone know if Charter suddenly started
caring about some DMARC policies on or around this past Friday? I
have my list set to munge the From: lines of messages from senders
E.G. AOL, Yahoo, etc. that publish a DMARC rejection policy.

On a slightly different topic, I've heard from a few Outlook users
that list messages are consistently ending up in their junkmail
folders. Could this be because Microsoft doesn't like the fact that
my list is causing DMARC to fail, but not actually complaining to me
about it? I could solve this problem