Re: [Mailman-Users] Moderating if keywords mentioned?
Ok, thanks to you both, that should get us by. On Sat, 23 Feb 2019 at 9:05 am, Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users < mailman-users@python.org> wrote: > On Sat, 2019-02-23 at 08:04 +1100, Peter Shute wrote: > > Thanks. I assume that will work on subject lines, will it also > > allow filtering on the message body? If not, is there any way > > to do that? > > It won't work on msg body text. To do that you would need a custom > handler (Mark sent that in his email), or use something like > SpamAssassin and specify the SpamAssassin header like so: > > X-Spam-Status:.*LIKELY_SPAM_BODY > > Or as Mark also stated, you can write a custom SpamAssassin rule to add > headers for your own body matches. > > -Jim P. > > -- > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > Searchable Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: > https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pshute%40nuw.org.au > -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Moderating if keywords mentioned?
Thanks. I assume that will work on subject lines, will it also allow filtering on the message body? If not, is there any way to do that? On Sat, 23 Feb 2019 at 7:00 am, Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users < mailman-users@python.org> wrote: > > > On February 22, 2019 6:33:48 PM UTC, Peter Shute > wrote: > >Is it possible to specify keywords that will cause a matching message > >to > >held for moderation? I thought I'd seen something like this, but I > >can't > >find it in the admin interface. > > > > > It's under Privacy Options -> Spam Filters. > > Set a regex for whatever you want to catch, set the action to Hold. > > Ex: > > Subject: .*[Oo]ut.*[Oo]ffice.* > > > hth, > > -Jim P. > -- > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > Searchable Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: > https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pshute%40nuw.org.au > -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] Moderating if keywords mentioned?
Is it possible to specify keywords that will cause a matching message to held for moderation? I thought I'd seen something like this, but I can't find it in the admin interface. Peter Shute -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Unexpected unsubscription confirmation emails
On 17 September 2018 at 08:48, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Or, if you have a personalized unsubscribe link in a list footer like > this list does, the list member replied to or forwarded a list post > without removing the quoted footer and a recipient clicked it > maliciously, inadvertently or thinking she was unsubscribing herself. No, it's not customised. I feel they must have followed the generic link and entered someone else's address. It might have been some kind of accident, but it coincides with a period where one member might well have wanted this particular address off the list. Only one unsubscription attempt was reported by members, but I'd like to check if there were more that were ignored. > You could analyze your web server logs looking for POSTs to the list's > options page, however that won't show you the POST data so won't be too > useful. So that would let us see which ip address submitted the form, but not what was on the form? As you can see, I still haven't got around to finding out how to access the logs, and probably won't! > Alternatively, you could modify the ConfirmUnsubscription method in > Mailman/MailList.py to log the event in addition to sending the > confirmation email, or perhaps more simply, change the lines We don't have that kind of access. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Unexpected unsubscription confirmation emails
Thanks. We'll have to ask the admin for those. We're on cpanel, and I don't think we've got access ourselves. On 17 September 2018 at 02:31, Dmitri Maziuk via Mailman-Users wrote: > On Mon, 17 Sep 2018 00:44:40 +1000 > Peter Shute wrote: > >> At least one member of our list has received an unexpected email from the >> list server requesting confirmation of unsubscription. It looks to me like >> someone has filled in this member's address on the unsubscription form on >> their behalf in an attempt to remove them from the list. >> >> Is there any way for us to monitor these attempts? > > Short answer is it should be in your webserver log if it came via the web > interface. > > -- > Dmitri Maziuk > -- > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: > https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pshute%40nuw.org.au -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] Unexpected unsubscription confirmation emails
At least one member of our list has received an unexpected email from the list server requesting confirmation of unsubscription. It looks to me like someone has filled in this member's address on the unsubscription form on their behalf in an attempt to remove them from the list. Is there any way for us to monitor these attempts? Peter Shute Sent from my iPad -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Digest members of one domain marked bouncing
We mostly have the Plain option ticked. Is that RFC 934? And unticked is Mime? I can’t see an obvious pattern, but I several unticked that aren’t marked bouncing. There are also some ticked that aren’t marked bouncing, but I can tell if these have fixed the problem themselves (if that’s possible), or have perhaps whitelisted us. I’ll have a more thorough look, and if there’s a pattern, we can try unticking them all. I’ll try contacting bigpond, but as a non customer, I suspect I’ll be ignored at best. In my own organisation, a young colleague wanted to leave our new spam filter on the default setting to quarantine all mailing list emails, which it called “suspicious newsletters”. He thought our users would appreciate that. I suspect many tech support people think the same way. Sent from my iPhone > On 8 Aug 2018, at 6:14 pm, Stephen J. Turnbull > wrote: > > Peter Shute writes: > >> Have you been able to do anything about it? If we can't get their >> server to believe it's not spam, we're going to have to take all >> these people off digest, and some won't like it. > > There are two digest formats, MIME and RFC 934 (older and somewhat > less robust, but still pretty usable). If all of the affected users > are on one, you could try switching to the other, possibly with some > loss of functionality depending on the MUAs in use and the content of > the messages. > > The only other reasonable thing I can suggest is to contact > bigpond.com and ask them if you can get on a whitelist or if they're > willing to tell you about digest formats that pass their spam checker. > Usually the less competent the spam-checker, the less they're willing > to tell you about what features of your mail stream are triggering the > checker, but you might get lucky. > > Steve -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Digest members of one domain marked bouncing
Have you been able to do anything about it? If we can't get their server to believe it's not spam, we're going to have to take all these people off digest, and some won't like it. I don't know if getting these people to whitelist us would let these emails through, even if it was possible to steer all of them through the process. On 8 August 2018 at 11:48, Richard Damon wrote: > On 8/7/18 6:33 PM, Peter Shute wrote: > > Recently we've had a lot of members from one particular domain ( > > bigpond.com/bigpond.com.au) marked bouncing, and it looks like it's only > > digest members who are affected. I haven't checked yet if all digest > > members from that domain are affected. We unticked their nomail box, but > a > > few days later they're marked bouncing again. > > > > I'm guessing that for some reason, that mail server thinks our digest > > emails are spam. Any ideas what to do about this? > > > > Peter Shute > I have seen bounce issues with a number of the larger email providers > with digests on the list I run. I suspect that the format of the digest > just looks strange to the scoring algorithms, and the embedded message > Ids will look like there are a lot of email addresses in the message, > which would be also unusual. > > -- > Richard Damon > > -- > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/ > mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/ > pshute%40nuw.org.au > -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Digest members of one domain marked bouncing
I should have mentioned we've done that, and the reason for all of them is " 558 5.7.1 5B04183724647A17 Message content rejected due to suspected spam. IB703 " On 8 August 2018 at 08:45, Mark Sapiro wrote: > On 08/07/2018 03:33 PM, Peter Shute wrote: > > > > I'm guessing that for some reason, that mail server thinks our digest > > emails are spam. Any ideas what to do about this? > > > Look in the server's mail logs for a reason or if you don't have access > or for some reason the bounces are more indirect and not logged there, > ensure that Bounce processing -> bounce_notify_owner_on_disable and if > available, bounce_notify_owner_on_bounce_increment are set to yes and > the list owner will receive a copy of the disabling (and incrementing) > DSNs. > > This will tell you the receiving server's reason for not accepting the > mail and you can follow up on that. > > -- > Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan > -- > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/ma > ilman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pshute > %40nuw.org.au > -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] Digest members of one domain marked bouncing
Recently we've had a lot of members from one particular domain ( bigpond.com/bigpond.com.au) marked bouncing, and it looks like it's only digest members who are affected. I haven't checked yet if all digest members from that domain are affected. We unticked their nomail box, but a few days later they're marked bouncing again. I'm guessing that for some reason, that mail server thinks our digest emails are spam. Any ideas what to do about this? Peter Shute -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Approving often fails and displays wrong page
It’s happening to multiple moderators on multiple devices with independent internet connections, so it sounds like we need to ask our server provider to look into it. Thanks, Peter Shute Sent from my iPhone > On 12 Mar 2018, at 12:58 pm, Mark Sapiro <m...@msapiro.net> wrote: > >> On 03/11/2018 10:03 AM, Carl Zwanzig wrote: >>> On 3/10/2018 11:58 PM, Peter Shute wrote: >>> We’ve found recently that more often than not when we approve a message >>> from its details view, after we click Submit, it goes to another page >>> that’s not part of mailman. It goes to the root of our cpanel, ie same >>> url minus the/mailman/... part, but displays the correct url in the >>> address bar. We can reliably approve messages from the summary page. >> >> Sounds sort of like a rogue load balancer, caching system, or some kind >> of URL rewrite filter in the way. > > > I agree with Carl. I have no idea what the actual issue is, but given > that the result has something like > http://example.com/mailman/admindb/list_example.com in the address bar > but the content displayed is as if the browser had done a 'GET /' would > seem to say either the browser is broken - very unlikely and easily > confirmed by trying a different browser - or something between the > browser and the ultimate web server is the cause. > > -- > Mark Sapiro <m...@msapiro.net>The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan > -- > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: > https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pshute%40nuw.org.au -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] Approving often fails and displays wrong page
We’ve found recently that more often than not when we approve a message from its details view, after we click Submit, it goes to another page that’s not part of mailman. It goes to the root of our cpanel, ie same url minus the /mailman/... part, but displays the correct url in the address bar. We can reliably approve messages from the summary page. Is this a mailman fault? Cpanel fault? DNS? Whatever it is, it doesn’t do it for every message. Sometimes the message will be approved properly, and it’ll return to the summary view. When it does go wrong, even repeating it 10 times still fails, so it appears to be somehow triggered by particular messages. And that also discounts a DNS fault? We have long had an issue where it displays a 404 error when we try to approve, but that was rare. This problem happens for most messages. Ideas for diagnosis? Peter Shute Sent from my iPad -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Accept vs Approve wording on moderator pages
Mark Sapiro wrote: > Is anyone bothered by this? Now that I know it has a history, I could become quite fond of it. If it comes down to definitions of each word, I'm fine with either, although I generally talk to other moderators about approving messages and subscriptions rather than accepting. Peter Shute -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] Accept vs Approve wording on moderator pages
On the moderator summary page, the available options are Defer, Approve, Reject or Discard. On the detail page, they're Defer, Accept, Reject or Discard. Only a cosmetic difference, but perhaps someone could change one to match the other? Peter Shute -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Only unmoderated messages getting to list?
Robert Heller wrote: > Does the list have archives (public or private)? Are the messages showing up > there? No archives. > Are the messages "not being sent out" from @gmail.com addresses? GMail > "tosses" messages a poster from gmail sends when it comes back to that > poster. > > The message does get delivered to everyone else. I have several non gmail addresses I use to test with, and they're not receiving them either. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Only unmoderated messages getting to list?
Can I get at those logs via cPanel? Since I emailed, an approved message got through. Two of the three affected emails were from non members. We allow non members to post because some people just don’t bother subscribing. The sender of an affected email subscribed and sent another email, and after being approved, it got through. Sent from my iPhone > On 1 Feb 2018, at 3:04 pm, Mark Sapiro <m...@msapiro.net> wrote: > >> On 01/31/2018 07:08 PM, Peter Shute wrote: >> Today we've noticed that messages we've approved aren't getting sent out by >> the list, or at least they aren't being received by list members. > > > Are they archived? > > >> I sent a couple of test messages to the list, and they got sent out ok. What >> could be happening that only allows unmoderated messages through? > > > What's in Mailman's 'vette' and 'error' logs from the time of approval. > > One possibility is the messages held and approved were subsequently > discarded by content filtering. This can happen for example if the > message is HTML only, content filtering doesn't accept text/html and > filter_action is discard. This and other possibilities will be logged in > the vette log. > > -- > Mark Sapiro <m...@msapiro.net>The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan > -- > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: > https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pshute%40nuw.org.au -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] Only unmoderated messages getting to list?
Today we've noticed that messages we've approved aren't getting sent out by the list, or at least they aren't being received by list members. I sent a couple of test messages to the list, and they got sent out ok. What could be happening that only allows unmoderated messages through? There haven't been a lot of messages involved yet. Maybe three moderated messages have gone astray, from three different members, one of whom is a moderator. We're on v2.1.23. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Photos from Macs getting removed by list server
Lynx? If you mean some kind of customisation, I doubt there's any. Peter Shute > -Original Message- > From: Mailman-Users [mailto:mailman-users- > bounces+pshute=nuw.org...@python.org] On Behalf Of Mark Sapiro > Sent: Tuesday, 23 January 2018 1:21 PM > To: mailman-users@python.org > Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Photos from Macs getting removed by list > server > > On 01/22/2018 06:10 PM, Peter Shute wrote: > > > > What happens if we just change collapse_alternatives to No? > > > You can try that first. It will make a noticeable difference, but the result > may > still not be what you want depending on what 'lynx' or whatever you may > have changed HTML_TO_PLAIN_TEXT_COMMAND to does with the HTML > and how the end user MUAs handle it. > > It will result in the images not being removed, but the end rendering of the > message may or may not be acceptable. You'll have to try it and see. > > -- > Mark Sapiro <m...@msapiro.net>The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan > -- > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: > http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail- > archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman- > users/pshute%40nuw.org.au -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Photos from Macs getting removed by list server
I agree about html email, but it was always an uphill battle with Outlook being set to html format by default. With iPhones/iPads, there seems to not even be a choice. They seem to create plain text unless you add a photo, then they revert to html. Our list needs to allow photos, so we just have to try t deal with it. Peter Shute > -Original Message- > From: Mailman-Users [mailto:mailman-users- > bounces+pshute=nuw.org...@python.org] On Behalf Of Lindsay Haisley > Sent: Tuesday, 23 January 2018 1:37 PM > To: mailman-users@python.org > Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Photos from Macs getting removed by list > server > > On Tue, 2018-01-23 at 02:10 +, Peter Shute wrote: > > Thanks for all that. I googled collapse_alternatives, and I can see > > from the colour of some of the results that I've looked this up > > before. > > > > Given that Mac and (particularly) iPhone/iPad users are common, we > > probably don't have an unusual problem. Maybe I should just ask the > > list owner to try changing those two settings to see how it goes: > > collapse_alternatives=No > > convert_html_to_plaintext=No > > I've been preaching for years to people that using HTML-enhanced email is a > questionable practice, and on a mailing list it's even worse. > There is no established standard for this usage, and graphic attachments may > or may not be handled, or handled as the sender expected. On a mailing list > it's a pretty sure bet that at least _some_ subscribers won't be able to see > what the sender intended, so SOP on the lists here is to just strip them off. > An email with _only_ an HTML MIME part is identified as spam. > > Smart phones have complicated the issue since in my experience smart > phone MUAs are fairly brain-dead. > > I tell my Mailman mailing list customers that spot color, font effects > (bolding, > italics, etc) and simple layout are probably fine, but the use of images, > either > embedded or attached, is dicey. > > It used to be that HTML-ized emails were up to 10 times the size of plain text > emails, depending on the generating MUA. This is probably still true, but > bandwidth and storage capacities around the Internet have risen over the > years so that this isn't the problem it used to be. > > -- > Lindsay Haisley | "The first casualty when > FMP Computer Services | war comes is truth." > 512-259-1190 | > http://www.fmp.com| -- Hiram W Johnson > > -- > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: > http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail- > archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman- > users/pshute%40nuw.org.au -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Photos from Macs getting removed by list server
Thanks for all that. I googled collapse_alternatives, and I can see from the colour of some of the results that I've looked this up before. Given that Mac and (particularly) iPhone/iPad users are common, we probably don't have an unusual problem. Maybe I should just ask the list owner to try changing those two settings to see how it goes: collapse_alternatives=No convert_html_to_plaintext=No I wonder how much dangerous javascript in email is these days. What happens if we just change collapse_alternatives to No? > -Original Message- > From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:m...@msapiro.net] > Sent: Tuesday, 23 January 2018 12:08 PM > To: Peter Shute <psh...@nuw.org.au>; mailman-users@python.org > Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Photos from Macs getting removed by list > server > > On 01/22/2018 01:33 PM, Peter Shute wrote: > > > > Perhaps I've used the wrong terminology. I mean that > convert_html_to_plaintext is set to Yes. > > > OK > > > > I've attached a screenshot of the content filtering page. Does that > > tell you everything you need to know? (Assuming it'll be allowed > > through. If not, what's the easiest way to list all the settings?) > > > It didn't go to the list, but I got it in my direct copy. For future > reference, the > settings are: > > filter_content: Yes > filter_mime_types: empty > pass_mime_types: > multipart > text/plain > text/html > image/jpeg > image/png > filter_filename_extensions: > exe > bat > cmd > com > pif > scr > vbs > cpl > mpg > mc4 > mp3 > And more not in the screenshot > pass_filename_extensions: empty > collapse_alternatives: Yes > convert_html_to_plaintext: Yes > filter_action: Discard > > And something like the above is the best way to report them. > > > > I still have all the moderation notification emails, with the original > > emails > attached. Can I use those to get the information you need? > > > Yes, but see below. > > > > But before I start trying to gather together evidence, could we "fix" this > problem by setting convert_html_to_plaintext to No? If so, are there any > side effects of that we should know about before we try it? > > > That alone probably won't fix it. Consider a message with the following MIME > structure: > > multipart/alternative > text/plain > plain text body > multipart/related > text/html > HTML body that references images > image/jpeg > first image > image/jpeg > second image > > pass_mime_types will accept everything, but collapse_alternatives = Yes will > replace the multipart/alternative part with the first sub-part, i.e. the > text/plain part leaving only > > text/plain > plain text body > > as the message to be delivered. > > Even a different message like > > multipart/related > multipart/alternative > text/plain > plain text body > text/html > HTML body that references images > image/jpeg > first image > image/jpeg > second image > > Will result in the filtered message > > multipart/related > text/plain > plain text body > image/jpeg > first image > image/jpeg > second image > > with the image parts still in the delivered message, but the HTML that > referenced them gone. > > The only time the HTML is left in the message in any form is if it's not in a > multipart/alternative sub-part such as > > multipart/related > text/html > HTML body that references images > image/jpeg > first image > image/jpeg > second image > > but even here, the text/html part will be converted to text/plain by > HTML_TO_PLAIN_TEXT_COMMAND and how the result will render will vary > depending both on what that command does and the MUA that views the > result. > > > > I'm not the owner of the list, and it wasn't my decision to set it to Yes. > > I'm > under the impression that the owner changed it as a precaution once after > the list was somehow being used to send out spam. It's my impression that in > the years before I had admin access, there have been periods when html > was allowed, but I have no idea of the reasons for the earlier changes. > > > You definitely want to set collapse_alternatives to No. Depending on how > that works for you, you may also need to set convert_html_to_plaintext to > No to get the result you want. > > The risk in setting convert_html_to_plaintext to No is mes
Re: [Mailman-Users] Photos from Macs getting removed by list server
Mark Sapiro wrote: > > If the list is plain-text only, I'd be more curious how images were > > making their way through, not the reverse. > > Exactly! Perhaps I've used the wrong terminology. I mean that convert_html_to_plaintext is set to Yes. > In order to say more, we'd need to see all the content filtering settings for > the list and the emails at issue. Ideally, we'd like a raw email as sent to > the > list, but even the resultant email from the list might be helpful. I've attached a screenshot of the content filtering page. Does that tell you everything you need to know? (Assuming it'll be allowed through. If not, what's the easiest way to list all the settings?) > I.e., for the ideal case, have the user mail to the list with a Bcc: to you. > Then, > show us the content filtering settings and both raw emails, the list mail and > the direct Bcc:. I still have all the moderation notification emails, with the original emails attached. Can I use those to get the information you need? But before I start trying to gather together evidence, could we "fix" this problem by setting convert_html_to_plaintext to No? If so, are there any side effects of that we should know about before we try it? I'm not the owner of the list, and it wasn't my decision to set it to Yes. I'm under the impression that the owner changed it as a precaution once after the list was somehow being used to send out spam. It's my impression that in the years before I had admin access, there have been periods when html was allowed, but I have no idea of the reasons for the earlier changes. Peter Shute -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] Photos from Macs getting removed by list server
We’re finding that messages sent to our list by Mac users are having jpg attachments removed. I assume this is something to do with the list being plain text only, and the email format created by the mail program Macs use. We’re also finding that if ipad/iphone users send emails with photos, the list lets the photos through, but iPad/iphone users can’t see them, causing them to assume they’ve been stripped off. Evidence for these symptoms is partly anecdotal, so might not be exactly right. It’s hard to get information from users about exactly which device and which program they used to create the emails. Has anyone else seen the same things? Is there any easy fix for them? Peter Shute Sent from my iPad -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] Readonly admin access
On our list, several of the moderators have admin access so that we can add and remove members. Has it ever been considered to add a third type of user who can perform those tasks without being able to modify the list configuration? I assume there isn't already a way to achieve this? A related idea is to have mailman keep a log of configuration changes so that's it's easy to see when and what changes have been made. Peter Shute -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] Does Mailman alter messages attached to moderation notification emails?
I am again trying to answer a query from a list member about spelling errors in his postings that show up in his list messages, but not in his copy of the sent message. Initially we thought this was because he was composing in html, and that his mail client wasn't including an accurate representation of the message in the plain text section. Our list sends out only the plain text section. In at least one case we proved that the spelling error (a missing period in a URL) was only in the plain text section, so I advised him to compose in plain text. Now it's happened again, this time in a plain text only message. The period is there in his copy of the sent message, missing in what went to the list. I can also see that it's missing in the copy of the message attached to the moderation notification. Does the list send out moderation notifications with the attached messages unaltered? Is there any mechanism in mailman that could have removed the period? It also removed one from a URL sent to the list owner address, but again that message has passed through Mailman. I'm not able to easily get a sample of a message from him that hasn't been through Mailman, so I can't eliminate it as a suspect. Looking at the raw messages, something that's common about them is that the missing period would fall exactly on the start of a line when it's wrapped, i.e after the = symbol which I assume is a soft eol, and in one of them the period is there in the plain text section, but missing in the html section. Peter Shute -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Sub-lists
Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: Are these corporate mailboxes you'll be using, or private ones? I've never used it, but you can have regular expression in ban_list to prevent people subscribing with their work addresses. That's a good idea for dealing with corporate policy toward mailbox use, but as Jamie points out, if there's a court involved, anything can be subpoena'ed. True. I was thinking more along the lines of someone taking an unofficial peek at a few mailboxes to compile an unofficial hit list. Peter Shute -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Who sees real names?
Stephen J. wrote: Thanks, I think we're safe from all those methods, but I also think it would be safer to leave the name blank, just in case something changes. You are right about safer, but note that at least one Mailman developer (me) would consider inadvertantly exposing more personal information in a future version than we do now to be a regression, and a fairly high priority one at that. Unfortunately, privacy is not something we can take lightly these days. The sort of changes I was referring to were us changing the settings for our installation of mailman. I think that's way more likely than future version changes. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Who sees real names?
Thanks, I think we're safe from all those methods, but I also think it would be safer to leave the name blank, just in case something changes. Peter Shute Sent from my iPad On 14 Jun 2015, at 9:49 am, Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.net wrote: On 06/13/2015 02:04 PM, Peter Shute wrote: I've had a request to join our list under a false name. If I enter their real name in the Member Name field so I can tell who they are, who else can ever see that? The member controls the display name used in list messages, don't they? The member's real_name attribute can be exposed in various ways. 1) The results of the email who command 2) The web roster beginning in 2.1.19 if the site allows it 3) The display name in a Munge From or Wrap Message From: if the original post has no display name. If the list's Privacy options... - Subscription rules - private_roster is set to List Admin Only, then only someone authenticated as admin can see 1) or 2). If the list's from_is_list setting is No (this setting is deprecated and should normally be No, use Privacy options... - Sender filters - dmarc_moderation_action instead) and the user's address in not in a domain with a domain with a DMARC reject or quarantine policy, then 3) is probably OK, but it's only certain if neither from_is_list nor dmarc_moderation_action is Munge From or Wrap Message. -- Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pshute%40nuw.org.au -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] Who sees real names?
I've had a request to join our list under a false name. If I enter their real name in the Member Name field so I can tell who they are, who else can ever see that? The member controls the display name used in list messages, don't they? Peter Shute Sent from my iPad -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Could Mailman cope with extra Mime sections intended for Apple Watches?
Thanks to you both for your input on this. It'll be interesting to see whether they persist with this mail format. Peter Shute -Original Message- From: Mailman-Users [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+pshute=nuw.org...@python.org] On Behalf Of Mark Sapiro Sent: Monday, 18 May 2015 9:59 AM To: mailman-users@python.org Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Could Mailman cope with extra Mime sections intended for Apple Watches? This is arguably non-conformant. multipart/alternative parts are supposed to contain sub-parts which are alternative representations of the message arranged in increasing order of complexity, and MUAs are supposed to render the most complex (supposedly closest to the original) that they understand. The summary part is not a more faithful representation of the complete message than even the text/plain part, so it doesn't belong there. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] Could Mailman cope with extra Mime sections intended for Apple Watches?
This isn't something that's happening right now, and I doubt it will, but you never know. Apple is playing with mail formats intended to display as a message summary on an Apple Watch, but show the full message on a larger device. Apparently it's a legal format, but lots of mail clients are getting it wrong, and I'm wondering what Mailman would do with a message like that. I don't fully understand the problem, but it seems that reply notifications sent to people participating in discussions in the Apple Support Comunities (discussions.apple.com)have recently changed format. Previously they had an html part and a plain text part. Now they have an additional second html part containing the message summary. Mail clients are supposed to go through the Mime sections and select the most suitable one to display. It appears that most are selecting the html summary and not looking any further, so people don't see the full message. It appears that Exchange is even removing the other bits. It hasn't been suggested that Apple will try to do the same thing with user generated email, but who knows? If they do, will Mailman pass all three Mime sections through? It's being discussed here, and someone has posted a sample of the format: https://discussions.apple.com/thread/7039218?start=15tstart=0 Peter Shute -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Allowing images to be sent to a list
Yes, it was the scrub_nondigest setting, which we experimented with a long time ago and forgot about. Thanks, Peter Shute Sent from my iPad On 10 May 2015, at 10:26 am, Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.net wrote: On 05/09/2015 03:03 PM, Peter Shute wrote: We're experimenting with allowing images to be sent to our list, but the images are being scrubbed. Please see below for the results of a recent test. What settings should I check to prevent the images being scrubbed? If images are scrubbed from individual messages and MIME format digests, in the list's admin interface set Non-digest options - scrub_nondigest to No. If images are scrubbed only from the pipermail archive and plain format digests, that is normal as these are plain text only be definition. Is it something to do with convert_html_to_plaintext being set to yes? No. -- Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pshute%40nuw.org.au -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] Allowing images to be sent to a list
We're experimenting with allowing images to be sent to our list, but the images are being scrubbed. Please see below for the results of a recent test. What settings should I check to prevent the images being scrubbed? Is it something to do with convert_html_to_plaintext being set to yes? I don't want to experiment with that unnecessarily because this is a live list, and I don't have a non production list to play with. Peter Shute Sent from my iPad Begin forwarded message: From: Peter Shute psh...@nuw.org.aumailto:psh...@nuw.org.au Date: 10 May 2015 7:53:41 am AEST To: New birding-aus birding-...@birding-aus.orgmailto:birding-...@birding-aus.org Subject: [Birding-Aus] Test 3 Testing if images can be sent to the list. -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: FullSizeRender.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 8488 bytes Desc: FullSizeRender.jpg URL: http://birding-aus.org/mailman/private/birding-aus_birding-aus.org/attachments/20150510/1b2e13fd/attachment.jpg -- next part -- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: ATT1.txt URL: http://birding-aus.org/mailman/private/birding-aus_birding-aus.org/attachments/20150510/1b2e13fd/attachment.txt HR BR Birding-Aus mailing list BR birding-...@birding-aus.orgmailto:birding-...@birding-aus.org BR To change settings or unsubscribe visit: BR http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org /HR -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] What would your dream Mailman web interface look like?
Here's another one - some way to flag a held message to warn moderators that its content is being discussed among moderators. It would be good if it was impossible to approve a flagged message until the flag was removed, to avoid accidental release. I don't think there needs to be any security on removing the flag - it's only to prevent accidents. It's happened several times on our list that one moderator has emailed the rest of us about a message, while simultaneously another moderator has approved it. Peter Shute Sent from my iPad On 3 Apr 2015, at 6:48 am, Andrew Stuart andrew.stu...@supercoders.com.au wrote: What’s on your wishlist for the perfect Mailman web interface? If you can provide links to show where your ideas are done well that would help to illustrate your thoughts. Any killer features that you’d like to see in the perfect Mailman web interface? as -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pshute%40nuw.org.au -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] What would your dream Mailman web interface look like?
Andrew Stuart wrote: What's on your wishlist for the perfect Mailman web interface? It would be helpful to me if it somehow allowed an iOS browser to stay logged in. I haven't found one that will - something to do with cookies expiring when the app is in the background, I think. Peter Shute -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] The right way to reply to a mailing list
Mark Sapiro wrote: But this time I tried unticking the Plain option for my subscription. I was surprised to see that they did start coming through as individual attachements, and that I could open them and reply to them properly. This works in both Outlook and iOS Mail. But all I see is an index and a long list of unnamed attachments. If I want to read them, I have to open them one by one to see what's in them, or look at the index numbers and count through the attachements to find the right one. Is this normal? Perhaps this is something to do with convert_html_to_plaintext being set to On? We also have mime_is_default_digest set to Plain. Outlook and iOS Mail. Both are notorius, non-compliant MUAs. There are lots of MUAs that will render a MIME digest in a useful way and still let you open and reply to individual messages. I don't know about iOS devices, and MUAs on mobile devices are a sorry lot, but reasonably recent versions of K9 Mail on Android will at least render a MIME format digest in a readable way. So this is normal behaviour for these clients? I wouldn't see anything different if those settings I mentioned were different? I'm still pleasantly surprised that changing the Plain setting lets me access the digest as well as this. Peter Shute -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] The right way to reply to a mailing list
Laura Creighton wrote: A lot of the time, what you really want is to get rid of all of the quoted material altogether. A bit of usenet history is of interest here. In the very old days, we didn't have a way to quote any mail at all. We didn't have threads, either. . . . This happened often enough that several of us decided that it would be a good idea to put quoting into the mail and news readers we were using at the time. And I am one of the people who did so. And it made certain things infinitely more convenient. . . . This sort of point-by-point dressing down really had only one counterpart in face-to-face communication -- where a Superior dresses down a Subordinate, in front of an audience. The main purpose of such things has nothing to do with the Subordinate that got the dressing down, but everything to do with maintaining the Superior's authority and making the audience quiver in their boots (while thanking God that they weren't getting the chewing out). So, unsurprisingly, people who had made tiny errors in understanding or interpretation flipped right out at what they perceived as bucket-loads of nitpicking contempt hurled at them for no particularly good reason, by a person whose authority they didn't recognise. It was also widely condemned as a way to impose a hierarchical structure on something that had hitherto been working in a rather flat, equalitarian manner. And it had a chilling effect on whether people who were young, new and trying to learn things were willing to post their current thoughts on a matter. Thanks for that bit of reply style history! I've only been using email since quoting became a common feature, so I never saw this before and after effect. Have you seen a reduction in this dressing down style of reply since top-posting became common? Peter Shute -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] The right way to reply to a mailing list
Lindsay Haisley wrote: And if html wasn't the default for so many clients. Don't get me started! To the best of my knowledge, there is no unified standard for HTML-ized email. Microsoft has Rich Text, Apple has another standard. Digests can get mucked up The default for MS Outlook seems to be HTML rather than Rich Text. beyond usability if people use HTML email and it's included in digests. Hopefully all HTMLized posts to a digested list are multipart/mixed with both a text/plain and a text/html part so the HTML can be nuked before its digested and/or sent out to subscribers. If not, all bets are off, but such emails are usually spam. I've seen a plain text section that didn't match the html version (if I'm remembering that incident correctly). Nonetheless, IMHO HTMLized email the way of the future so we'd better get used to dealing with it. Yes, whether we like it or not. It's a pity though that such complex HTML is used. Do we really need anything more than the ability to bold and underline? I'd be happy with some of the basic Structured Text formatting commands, which have the advantage that they're still intelligible in plain text. Peter Shute -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] The right way to reply to a mailing list
Steven D'Aprano wrote: The default for MS Outlook seems to be HTML rather than Rich Text. What Outlook, Hotmail etc. call Rich Text is in fact HTML, not to be confused with Microsoft's interchange Rich Text Format, RTF. Outlook offers Plain text, HTML and Rich text as formatting options, so I assume the Rich text they're talking about might actually be RTF. Peter Shute -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] The right way to reply to a mailing list
Thomas Gramstad wrote: Subscribing in digest mode allows me to receive one cumulative post per day (about, unless there is more traffic) and deal with them not interrupting my other activities. A proper MUA shall allow to read each message in the digest as if it were a single e-mail (and reply, archive, forward etc. etc.). But people don't have proper MUAs, or if they do, many don't know how to use them. So if you allow the digest version, somebody will respond to one of the messages in the digest version with a oneliner response which is top posted, followed by the quotation of the whole digest, and with a pointless Subject: (digest number) thrown in for good measure. All this talk about digests and being able to extract the original emails prompted me to try setting one of my subscriptions to digest mode. I had previously tried this and found that the resulting emails were presented to me in Outlook as one long email, and that replying to one of the contained emails involved editing out all the other emails, and adjusting the subject line. The reply behaviour of our list's digest members suggests they have to do the same thing (but often forget). But this time I tried unticking the Plain option for my subscription. I was surprised to see that they did start coming through as individual attachements, and that I could open them and reply to them properly. This works in both Outlook and iOS Mail. But all I see is an index and a long list of unnamed attachments. If I want to read them, I have to open them one by one to see what's in them, or look at the index numbers and count through the attachements to find the right one. Is this normal? Perhaps this is something to do with convert_html_to_plaintext being set to On? We also have mime_is_default_digest set to Plain. Peter Shute -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] The right way to reply to a mailing list
Carl Zwanzig wrote: How can mail interrupt? [...] Mail arrives all the time anyway, so people need to be able to deal with that. Exactly. Mail arrives when it does and I read it when I do. I really don't know why so many people feel compelled to check each message as it arrives. Have you ever been in the situation where you're waiting for an important email which must be acted on quickly, and your mailbox is also suddenly receiving a flood of emails from a normally quiet list? It's so easy to miss the important emails, especially on a phone with it's tiny screen. Many of us deal with this by creating a message rule that filters the unimportant list mail to a folder to be read at leisure. But many people don't know how to create message rules. When pop3 mail was common it wasn't possible to have the rules running server-side, so many users still don't even know it's possible. So they panic and either: - unsubscribe - reply to the list demanding that people stop talking about this off topic subject - change to digest mode Peter Shute -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] The right way to reply to a mailing list
On 22 Mar 2015, at 1:28 pm, Larry Kuenning la...@qhpress.org wrote: It seems to me correct editing of quotation sequences requires human thought, not just mechanical text manipulation. Even though some people expect their computers to think for them. I'd be happier if more clients at least allowed the option of using to indicate quoting level, so it would be possible to edit them into a suitable format. And if html wasn't the default for so many clients. When I try to manipulate an email full of quotes that are indicated by various methods including vertical lines down the left side and different coloured text, in an html editor that doesn't work properly, and which turns it all to mush if I convert to plain text because of line wrapping problems, it's easy to become discouraged. Peter Shute -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] The right way to reply to a mailing list
On 20 Mar 2015, at 6:20 pm, jdd j...@dodin.org wrote: Le 20/03/2015 08:16, Peter Shute a écrit : Getting off the subject, do you mean selecting quoted text, or any text? I've never used an Android device, and I assumed that this kind of basic task would be easier than on an iPhone. Perhaps not. selecting old text to trim it. May be I have too large fingers :-( If you're referring to the problem of getting the selection boundaries in exactly the right spot, I'm well familiar with that. So easy to get them within one or two characters, but requires excessive concentration and effort to get them closer. Don't know why they don't add cursor keys to help with it. Peter Shute -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] The right way to reply to a mailing list
On 20 Mar 2015, at 6:05 pm, jdd j...@dodin.org wrote: Le 20/03/2015 01:45, Mark Sapiro a écrit : This is a major hot-button issue for me, The above is only scratching the surface. smartphones makes things horrible, on android, selecting text for deletion is nearly impossible :-(( Getting off the subject, do you mean selecting quoted text, or any text? I've never used an Android device, and I assumed that this kind of basic task would be easier than on an iPhone. Perhaps not. Peter Shute -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] The right way to reply to a mailing list
Lindsay Haisley wrote: It is polite, though, to make sure you're not sending duplicate posts to people by doing a Reply to All which will probably send a copy of your reply to _both_ the list and the original poster. I think that this is a common point of confusion. All in this context doesn't mean all the list subscribers, but all the addresses in the headers. In all the mail clients I use, I get a choice of Reply, which for this list will reply only to the original sender, or Reply All, which sends it to the original sender and the list. If I want to reply just to the list, I have to hit Reply All and then delete the original sender's address. I usually don't bother, and I assumed most people don't. Has that been annoying people? I thought mailman was smart enough not to send another copy to people in the Cc list. As far as editing, top posting, bottom posting, etc. it's just a matter of using good sense. All communication should get as much meaning into its context as possible, with as little noise as possible. So as Carl said, pull out extra footers and everything else that's not relevant to the immediate focus of the conversation. If you can read your own post, and it makes good sense and gets your point across, as concisely as possible, it doesn't matter what you cut or leave, or if you top post or bottom post. I think people are generally limited by whatever their mail client will support. Outlook likes to set you up for top posting. I've only managed to get my Outlook to generate the quote indicators by telling it to open my mail in Plain Text format, and I edited the Original Message headers to the simple form above manually. I don't like to interquote in a section claiming to be Original Message because to me that implies it's been left intact. When I had a Blackberry, I had no choice by to top quote. The quoted material is either there or not there on a Blackberry, it can't be edited. Now I have an iPhone, I can edit the message and the header is acceptable for interquoting. We often see messages here that have replies alternating between top and bottom quoting, which can be very confusing, but often people have little choice. I agree with the other reply that said people are tending towards top quoting more and more. Many people simply top quote as encouraged by their mail client, and haven't considered that there's any other way. Often people only read the reply above the start of the quoted material, and ignore interquoted material anyway! Peter Shute -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] The right way to reply to a mailing list
Andrew Stuart wrote: Is it practical to come up with a very short list of instructions for non-highly-technical end users to give them so hints and confidence to get started using a list? Thinking a clerk in the accounts department at large-corporation-X has been subscribed to the list annualrep...@list.bigcorp.example.com How can we support them in rapidly becoming confident enough to post and use the list? Maybe you could put some examples on a web page of what you consider to be desirable quoting practices, in the hope that new users might take up those practices and encourage older users to conform. But if they're using the same email client they use for their other day to day email, they'll most likely just do what they've always done. And it's one thing to berate users of some obsure special interest mailing list for their quoting practices, it's another thing if it's your boss. I think the best you can usually hope for is that some of them will trim the quotes occasionally. In the end, unless the discussion gets very complicated, it usually doesn't really matter as far as people being able to understand messages is concerned. Lots of repeated quoting can make messages big though. Peter Shute -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] The right way to reply to a mailing list
Carl Zwanzig wrote: I agree with the other reply that said people are tending towards top quoting more and more. Many people simply top quote as encouraged by their mail client, and haven't considered that there's any other way. Do you mean where the new content is at the start of the message (usually called top-posting) or where the quoted/original material is at the start (usually bottom-posting or inter-posting)? Yes, I meant top-posting, not top-quoting. I've probably been using that wrong terminology for years. Peter Shute -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] stats on unsubscribes
You can also keep the unsubscribe notification emails. I don't think I've got access to the logs with cpanel, so that's all I can do. Doesn't help you if you want historical data and haven't kept them. Peter Shute -Original Message- From: Mailman-Users [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+pshute=nuw.org...@python.org] On Behalf Of Mark Sapiro Sent: Wednesday, 25 February 2015 10:31 AM To: mailman-users@python.org Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] stats on unsubscribes On 02/24/2015 02:34 PM, David Whited-Ford wrote: Hi All, Is there a way to report on unsubscribes over time? The unsubscribe events are logged in Mailmnan's subscribe log. Other than mmdsr which is more of a daily 'logwatch' type report, I'm not aware of anything that reports unsubscribes over time, but it would'nt be hard to make one. -- Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pshute%4 0nuw.org.au -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] FW: Your confirmation is required to leave the Mailman-Users mailing list
This is the second time I've received one of these. I'm told the only way one of these could be generated is if there's a URL published out there that does this when a bot crawls it, or if someone deliberately tried to unsubscribe me. Given that I've only had two in five months, I assume it must be the latter. It doesn't matter, but I'm curious about what would motivate someone to do that. Did anyone else get one recently? I've never had one for any other lists I'm on. Peter Shute -Original Message- From: Mailman-Users [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+pshute=nuw.org...@python.org] On Behalf Of mailman-users-confirm+9c0f272e65a3675ab914d10f23c7a0c62d6c3...@python.org Sent: Monday, 16 February 2015 6:19 PM To: Peter Shute Subject: Your confirmation is required to leave the Mailman-Users mailing list Mailing list removal confirmation notice for mailing list Mailman-Users We have received a request from 132.230.1.27 for the removal of your email address, psh...@nuw.org.au from the mailman-users@python.org mailing list. To confirm that you want to be removed from this mailing list ... etc ... If you do not wish to be removed from this list, please simply disregard this message. If you think you are being maliciously removed from the list, or have any other questions, send them to mailman-users-ow...@python.org. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] FW: Your confirmation is required to leave the Mailman-Users mailing list
Thanks, that's most likely the answer. I've never thought to remove them other than to tidy up the message, and on some of the mail clients I use, it's so much effort that I don't bother. I looked at messages from a couple of other mailman lists I'm on, and they don't have the unsubscribe link, so that explains why it hasn't happen with those. Peter Shute -Original Message- From: Mailman-Users [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+pshute=nuw.org...@python.org] On Behalf Of Mark Sapiro Sent: Tuesday, 17 February 2015 9:17 AM To: mailman-users@python.org Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] FW: Your confirmation is required to leave the Mailman-Users mailing list On 02/16/2015 12:48 PM, Peter Shute wrote: This is the second time I've received one of these. I'm told the only way one of these could be generated is if there's a URL published out there that does this when a bot crawls it, or if someone deliberately tried to unsubscribe me. There's another scenario that's more likely. See, e.g. the post at https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2014-October/ 077947.html. In this post, you quote a prior post which you received from the list and from which you did not remove the list footers including an 'Unsubscribe' link to your user options page. This sends your 'Unsubscribe' link to every list member and in turn some of these recipients forward it who knows where. Ultimately, someone receives it and thinks she wants to unsubscribe from what ever is sending her these, follows the link to your options page and clicks the Unsubscribe button on that page. Spiders won't do this because even though they will follow the link to your options login page, they won't post the form, but people who receive that message directly or indirectly will. Always remove list footers from quoted material before replying (if your MUA doesn't do it automatically), and this scenario can't happen. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Bounce Messages
Version 2.1.14 is pre DMARC, isn't it? Are you aware of the problems yahoo.com and aol.com list members can cause with bounces these days, Rene? Peter Shute Sent from my iPhone On 14 Feb 2015, at 3:47 am, Tapia, Rene rtap...@luc.edu wrote: Hello, A while back I replaced our older Mailman Server with a SLES 11 SP3 Server. The Mailman Version is 2.1.14. Everything is running fine for the most past. The only issue that I have is that when certain large email lists send emails containing attachments the .pck bounce messages in /var/lib/mailman/data grow rapidly and fills up all the disk. These lists are large and I know for a face a lot of these email addresses no longer exists. I have a 60GB disk dedicated to /var and space is not an issue. It always sits at 40% utilization until someone send an email to these lists. Is there something that I can do to avoid this from happening? Any help would be appreciated. Regards, René Tapia -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pshute%40nuw.org.au -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Diagnosing command failures
If he can't get that to work, perhaps you could schedule a script to run it yourself and email him the results, say once a week. Peter Shute Sent from my iPad On 22 Jan 2015, at 3:42 am, Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.net wrote: And, you could send him an email with a mailto:LISTNAME-request@...?subject=who%20PASSWORD link in it hand have him just click that and send. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Diagnosing command failures
Gary Merrill wrote: Now you might argue that Mailman was never intended to be deployed in such a lame support environment. That is almost It sounds like a fairly typical mailman support environment. certainly true. But it's ALMOST good enough to stand on its own feet in this environment, and I think that a number of subscribers to Webhostingpad make use of it. It's been working very reliably and well with this one exception -- which is certainly the problem of this single user. Since Mailman doesn't log failures and doesn't return specific enough diagnostics to tell exactly what's going on, I'll have to deal with it a more direct and personal way. I think the best thing to do would be to get one of his buddies to sit down with him and show him how to do it and what his problem is. A lot of people use the cPanel version and can't do anything complicated for support. Even though this particular case is about trying to help a difficult user to do something that's normally straightforward that's probably pointless anyway, I hope v3 at least gives cPanel users access to more diagnostics than v2 does. Peter Shute -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Digest indexes
On 18 Dec 2014, at 7:22 pm, Stephen J. Turnbull step...@xemacs.org wrote: Digest messages would actually be a better workflow for your users if the MUAs bothered to implement: 1. Display digest messages in the summary as single messages. Are there any MUAs that can do that? 2. If the user clicks on the digest message, it is opened as a folder, not as a message. I don't understand what you mean there. Peter Shute -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Digest indexes
On 17 Dec 2014, at 8:58 pm, Lucio Chiappetti lu...@lambrate.inaf.it wrote: I am subscribed in MIME digest mode to all lists which support them. I find they are a great way to receive messages once per day (more or less) without being pestered by single messages as they come. . . . this splits the digest into a mail folder. The same key then goes to the index of the folder, so one can access each message as if it were a normal mail. So this breaks the digest into separate emails? Wouldn't it be simpler to have a message rule that diverts the individual emails into a folder on arrival instead of using digest mode? Or doesn't Alpine support that kind of thing? Peter Shute -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Digest indexes
Lucio Chiappetti wrote: technically speaking, on arrival pertains to a mail delivery agent, and not to a MUA, which may operate when first entered by the user. Yes. I've done it at the MDA with gmail, Exchange and I think Yahoo. I used to do it in the MUA when I used Outlook Express. That works ok if you're only reading email with one device. I have divided the lists I am subscribed to in two categories and so have just two folders, one per category. For the less interesting lists, when I am away I divert them to /dev/null. For the most interesting lsits, I divert them to a cumulative folder, so I can read them when I am back. You are a very sophisticated digests user. Perhaps there are sophisticated digest users on our list, but we also have plenty of unsophisticated ones, who demand that other list members don't clutter their digests with things they aren't interested in. They create problems when they reply by constructing the reply by hand with a different subject line, or by simply replying to the digest email, with unchanged subject line and quoting the digest in full. The only reason they use digest mode in the first place is because they don't know how to create message rules to keep their Inbox clear of list mail. You can probably tell I don't like digest mode at all. I'd rather encourage people to learn how to use message rules. I have divided the lists I am subscribed to in two categories and so have just two folders, one per category. Personally I move all list mail to a folder per list. I've never thought of mixing mail from different lists, but that is an idea worth thinking about. It would simplify things greatly. Peter Shute -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Digest indexes
Would it work better for them if you adjusted digest_size_threshhold so they receive digests with fewer messages? I've never used this setting, so I'm assuming it will send more than one a day if enough messages arrive. Unfortunately the setting is for the size of the digest in KB, not the number of messages in it, but it might work if the size of the messages doesn't vary much. If you keep archives, another alternative might be to create a script to send daily archive links to them. They'd have to work out which messages were new, but it might work for them. Peter Shute -Original Message- From: Mailman-Users [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+pshute=nuw.org...@python.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Tuesday, 16 December 2014 10:41 PM To: Mailman Users Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digest indexes Hi, I run a high volume list (around 80 messages per day), and we have complaints from digest users that the digests are difficult to work with. One requested feature is could the digests be in HTML format, and a link be presented in the table of contents to go to each message. Can this be done in Mailman by working with the digest templates? Thanks. Andrew. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pshute%4 0nuw.org.au -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] All AOL unsubscribed
This should have nothing to do with AOL's DMARC policy, I think. For some reason AOL has been rejecting all your list's mail, so maybe it's an anti spam issue. Did you get bounce action notifications for those addresses? What reasons were given? How many addresses are involved? And are you sure every single AOL address was affected? Peter Shute Sent from my iPad On 13 Dec 2014, at 4:33 am, joseph cook joec...@gmail.com wrote: This morning all of my subscribers with aol addresses were automatically unsubscribed from my list. Why today? I thought all the DMARC issues had been resolved in the latest mailman version, and it's been 8 months now since the changes at AOL. --Any suggestions? Joe C -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pshute%40nuw.org.au -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Advantages - Files
On 11 Dec 2014, at 6:55 am, Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.net wrote: On 12/10/2014 03:56 AM, r...@rexgoode.com wrote: They wanted to know if there was a files area where they could upload things like Word documents, etc. I told them there wasn't. But there is in a way at least. If you allow these as attachments in Content filtering or don't filter content at all, and set Non-digest options - scrub_nondigest to Yes, then the non text/plain attachments will be stored aside in the archive and replaced by links in the delivered message. If all non text attachments get archived with this setting, do the html versions of messages get archived too? Do you also find the little graphics some people use in their signatures getting archived? Peter Shute -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Advantages
I would have thought the biggest problem with a Cc list is keeping the list up to date. If new people need to be added, removed or updated, people may use an old list for a long time after. It may be impossible to get some people to update it ever, or they might update then revert to an old one. If it's only a few people then a cc list can work ok, but it can be near impossible to set up usable message rules. Peter Shute Sent from my iPad On 3 Dec 2014, at 1:39 pm, Barry S. Finkel bsfin...@att.net wrote: On 12/2/2014 6:05 PM, r...@rexgoode.com wrote: I have been a long-time user of mailman and have been on many mailing lists. I am also part of a professional association of social workers that operate in my area. They have been using a list of addresses in a Cc field to manage their mailing list. I can't imagine anything more fraught with problems than that, but I can't convince these people to let me host a mailman mailing list for them. I can think of a lot of advantages myself, but I'm wondering if anyone has seen a good list somewhere. I'm a strange combination of software engineer and social worker, so I understand both worlds. My social worker colleagues tend to think of something like a mailing list as complicating things rather than simplifying them. I'm not necessarily asking for a discussion here, but I'd like some feedback on this. Viva Mailman! Rex Goode Using a Cc: list has problems: 1) Someone might omit one or more addresses, and then some of the intended recipients will not get the e-mail. And it may be a different group, depending upon which sender omits which addresses. 2) An e-mail with too many recipient addresses might be classified as spam by a recipient's ISP, and using a Bcc: list avoids this problem but then no one knows the entire recipient list for replying. These are the first two that come to mind, and I think that with these two, you do not need any more reasons to avoid using a Mailman list. And Mailman provides an archive of the postings and can control who can post to the list. --Barry Finkel -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pshute%40nuw.org.au -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] Spamassassin content preview ending up posted to list
I had a complaint yesterday that a URL in a posting to our list had become corrupted - one of the dots in the domain name had been dropped. Looking at the original message in the moderation alert email, it looks ok to me, but I can see that the dot has been dropped in the content preview in the X-Ham-Report header which I think spamassassin has inserted. This header has multiple lines, including blank lines, and I'm wondering if it's confusing mailman. Has anyone else seen this, and is there a way to stop it happening? Peter Shute -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] FW: Spamassassin content preview ending up posted to list
Sorry, I forgot to Cc the list. -Original Message- From: Peter Shute Sent: Thursday, 6 November 2014 12:49 PM To: 'Mark Sapiro' Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Spamassassin content preview ending up posted to list The dot was missing in the X-Ham-Report header but not in the message body in the moderation notice. It was missing from both in the message the list sent out, which made me think the list thought the content preview in the X-Ham-Report header was the message, and discarded the rest. I received the moderation notice via Exchange/Outlook, so I'm not sure there isn't more to it that I can't see. Outlook will only show me the headers, not the whole raw message. In an attempt to get a raw message for you to look at, I opened the message attached tot he moderation notice, then used Outlook's Resend option to send it to my gmail account. Below is what gmail calls the original message. However, you'll notice that there is no X-Ham-Report header! I'm assuming Outlook/Exchange or gmail stripped it out on the way to my gmail mailbox. So I've added the headers I see in Outlook below the full message. It might be that Outlook/Exchange has totally rewritten the headers and content, so apologies if that's the case. The difference between these and what arrived from the list is that it's plain text only, and the URL mentioned hase changed from: http://sunshinecoastbirds.blogspot.com.au/2014/11/yandina-creek-wetlands-and-its.html to: http://sunshinecoastbirdsblogspot.com.au/2014/11/yandina-creek-wetlands-and-its.html Note that the first dot in the URL has gone. The only place I can see a matching URL is in the content preview. Delivered-To: xx...@gmail.com Received: by 10.217.2.18 with SMTP id o18csp37651wes; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 14:41:09 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.68.211.193 with SMTP id ne1mr168364pbc.49.1415227268221; Wed, 05 Nov 2014 14:41:08 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: x...@nuw.org.au Received: from NUWVICMS2.nuw.org.au (mailout.nuw.org.au. [202.183.101.44]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id rg11si4172892pdb.142.2014.11.05.14.41.06 for xx...@gmail.com (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 05 Nov 2014 14:41:07 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: none (google.com: x...@nuw.org.au does not designate permitted sender hosts) client-ip=202.183.101.44; Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: x...@nuw.org.au does not designate permitted sender hosts) smtp.mail=x...@nuw.org.au Received: from NUWVICMS2.nuw.org.au ([192.168.0.36]) by nuwvicms2 ([192.168.0.36]) with mapi; Thu, 6 Nov 2014 09:41:03 +1100 From: Peter Shute x...@nuw.org.au To: 'xx...@gmail.com' xx...@gmail.com Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2014 09:41:02 +1100 Subject: Lewin's Rail, Spotless Crake and other Good Birds at Threatened Sunshine Coast Wetland Thread-Topic: Lewin's Rail, Spotless Crake and other Good Birds at Threatened Sunshine Coast Wetland Thread-Index: Ac/4qG3uhKgRA3eBQdqoWtgYFONxDQ== Message-ID: C2F1879073AE7347BAB44065F143E17001826088F7@nuwvicms2 Reply-To: Greg yyy y...@westnet.com.au Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ironport-av: E=Sophos;i=5.07,317,1413216000; d=scan'208,217;a=377715616 x-originating-ip: 124.150.99.243 x-spam-status: No, score=-0.9 x-ironport-anti-spam-result: Ah8LAJiYWVQKAiw6/2dsb2JhbABbgkhGVFkEgjK4XQaTWohlFgEBAQEBfYN5M24GAQk1AkIdG4gjAQETDqJGhzWIDYcBjjSGN41XgVQFhiKLf2KDb485A44ygVMBYIFWKy8BgUeBAwEBAQ x-ironport-anti-spam-filtered: true x-spam-flag: NO x-spam-score: -8 x-spam-bar: / acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=_000_C2F1879073AE7347BAB44065F143E17001826088F7nuwvicms2_ MIME-Version: 1.0 --_000_C2F1879073AE7347BAB44065F143E17001826088F7nuwvicms2_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 DQpJIGhlYXJkIG9yIHNhdyA1IExld2luJ3MgUmFpbHMgYW5kIDEyIFNwb3RsZXNzIENyYWtlcyB0 b2RheSBhdCBhIG5ld2x5IGRpc2NvdmVyZWQgd2V0bGFuZCBhdCBZYW5kaW5hIENyZWVrIG9uIHRo ZSBTdW5zaGluZSBDb2FzdC4gT3RoZXIgZ29vZCBiaXJkcyBhYm91dCBpbmNsdWRlZCBCbGFjay1u ZWNrZWQgU3RvcmssIFJlZC1uZWNrZWQgQXZvY2V0LCBMaXR0bGUgR3Jhc3NiaXJkIGFuZCBhIGZy ZWUtZmx5aW5nIE1hbGxhcmQ7IGdlbnVpbmVseSB3aWxkIE1hbGxhcmRzIGFyZSByYXJlIGluIHNv dXRoLWVhc3QgUXVlZW5zbGFuZC4NCg0KVGhpcyBleHRlbnNpdmUgYXJlYSBvZiBncmFzc2xhbmQg YW5kIHdldGxhbmQgaGFzIGVub3Jtb3VzIHBvdGVudGlhbCBidXQgaXMgdGhyZWF0ZW5lZCBieSBk ZXZlbG9wbWVudC4gVGhlIFN1bnNoaW5lIENvYXN0IFJlZ2lvbmFsIENvdW5jaWwgaXMgYmVpbmcg dXJnZWQgdG8gcHVyY2hhc2Ugc29tZSBvZiB0aGUgcHJpdmF0ZWx5IG93bmVkIGxhbmQgdG8gY29u c2VydmUgYW5kIG1hbmFnZSB0aGUgd2V0bGFuZHMuDQoNClNlZSBoZXJlIGZvciBwaWN0dXJlcywg ZnVydGhlciBpbmZvcm1hdGlvbiBhbmQgYSBsaW5rIHdoZXJlIHBlb3BsZSBjYW4gY29udGFjdCB0 aGUgbWF5b3IgaWYgdGhleSB3YW50IHRvIHNlZSB0aGUgYXJlYSBwcm90ZWN0ZWQ6DQoNCmh0dHA6 Ly9zdW5zaGluZWNvYXN0YmlyZHMuYmxvZ3Nwb3QuY29tLmF1LzIwMTQvMTEveWFuZGluYS1jcmVl ay13ZXRsYW5kcy1hbmQtaXRzLmh0bWwNCg0KR3JlZyBSb2JlcnRzDQoNCg
Re: [Mailman-Users] Images on iPhone's not loading
Are these images attachments of the emails, or are they just linked into the html from elsewhere? If the latter, have you looked at the html to see if there are errors in it? Peter Shute Sent from my iPad On 31 Oct 2014, at 8:35 am, James Nightly exim4deb...@gmail.com wrote: I tried disabling dmarc completely and apparently there is still an issue with HTML emails loading images on Apple iPhone Mail app. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pshute%40nuw.org.au -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mac, me, icloud. Many domains one user.
We've only got 4 of this type of address out of 1100 subscribers, but I've no idea if other lists would be similar. Is subscribing them all manually with the other two addresses a practical option? It would get messy if they unsubscribe, but if two were set to nomail it might not be so bad. If you moderate one then you'd have to remember to moderate them all. Peter Shute Sent from my iPad On 16 Oct 2014, at 9:10 am, Marino Pascal mpas...@gmail.com wrote: Long time lurker, first time poster. I have subscribers who subscribed with u...@mac.com and then they try to post from u...@me.com or u...@icloud.com and their mail bounces off course since only subscribers can post. I know how to add addresses with the accept_these_nonmembers Option but I have quite a few .mac users and I'm wondering if there is a way to treat mac.com, me.com icloud.com as interchangeable. http://support.apple.com/kb/ht2623 Thanks Marino Pascal -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pshute%40nuw.org.au -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] iOS app for moderation open sourced
That's progress for you. Sent from my iPad On 19 Sep 2014, at 5:52 pm, christian studer cstu...@existenz.ch wrote: FYI: The app now breaks completely on iOS 8. :-( Bye, christian 2014-09-14 13:22 GMT+02:00 christian studer cstu...@existenz.ch: Hello, I'm maintaining and moderating a couple of Mailman lists and when I was looking for an easy moderation tool, I've stumpled upon 'Mailman Moderator' for iOS [1]. Unfortunately the app isn't quite stable [2] and the original programmer isn't working on it anymore. After exchanging a couple of mails, he agreed to open source it here (MIT licensed): https://github.com/JanMisker/MailmanModerator-iOS Maybe somebody else will pick it up and polish it a little. With kind regards, christian [1]: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/mailman-moderator/id349100180?ls=1mt=8 [2]: It often crashes after moderation, no loading indicator, setup is finicky (If you're not putting the base url exactly to admindb/mailinglistname, it fails), the icon could be nicer. -- http://hymnos.existenz.ch (In Wirklichkeit gar nicht anwesend.) -- http://hymnos.existenz.ch (In Wirklichkeit gar nicht anwesend.) -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pshute%40nuw.org.au -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman equivalent of Yahoo Special Announcements?
On 20 Sep 2014, at 12:38 am, Steven D'Aprano st...@pearwood.info wrote: Hi, I'm about to migrate a Yahoo Groups mailing list to mailman. Yahoo Groups offers four delivery modes: - individual emails - daily digests - no mail - special announcements only and I have list members set to all four of them. The first three I can easily deal with, but I'm not sure how to handle those set to the last. As far as I can tell, the only difference between a Special Announcement and a regular post in Yahoo Groups is that a moderator can tick a checkbox when writing a Special Announcement on Yahoo's web UI. Do you ever send special announcements? I'd be tempted to just set those people to no mail. Peter Shute -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Moderated Members Email Messages Disappearing
Is it possible that somehow you're using the moderator page for the wrong list, ie they're still awaiting moderation? Peter Shute Sent from my iPad On 19 Sep 2014, at 2:07 am, Shannon Doane s_do...@yahoo.com.dmarc.invalid wrote: I recently had my email lists migrated from one server to another and am working with Mailman version 2.1.18-1. Unfortunately I can't remember the version of the old Mailman before the migration. The issue I'm having with the migrated email lists is that when a moderated member sends an email to the list, it never makes it to the Tend to pending moderator requests. The email just disappears into thin air as if it never existed. If I switch the same members email account to non-moderated and they send an email to the list the message goes through to everyone on the list just as it should. For testing purposes I also set up a brand new email list on the new server and it works exactly as it should without any issues. This problem seems to be with the migrated lists only. Any ideas as to why this could be occurring? Thank you!! -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pshute%40nuw.org.au -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Non-members keep receiving messages from the listserv
Could it be that these people are subscribed under other email addresses, which they've set to forward to their current one? You could try searching for similar looking addresses. Peter Shute -Original Message- From: Mailman-Users [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+pshute=nuw.org...@python.org] On Behalf Of Hung Phan Sent: Tuesday, 16 September 2014 8:19 AM To: mailman user mailing list Subject: [Mailman-Users] Non-members keep receiving messages from the listserv Hello, We have an odd behavior with non-members keep getting messages from one of our listserv. We unsubscribe these members manually and receive the message of Cannot unsubscribe non-member. We have the 1-click unsubscribe link embedded to messages as well. When we click on the link, we receive error message Authentication failed. We tried the recipients' names as well and nothing comes back. These recipients reply to the original message so they are registered as members. Anybody ran into this issue before? Is there a way for us to force Mailman to NOT send out messages to these specific addresses? Thank you, -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pshute%4 0nuw.org.au -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] iOS app for moderation open sourced
I hope someone does. I tried that one too, and found it unreliable in terms of not always showing all the messages available for moderation, and I suspect sometimes approving a different one to the one I selected. There was apparently another app, iModerate by Manuel Weiel, but it's no longer available in the App Store because he's stopped paying the annual developer fee. This is something that's going to have to be done by anyone who takes on Mailman Moderator. I assume these apps are aimed mainly at iPhone users because of the small screen. But even on an iPad I find it extremely frustrating because Safari and every other browser I've tried appear to close the app when it's been in the background for a while, which expires the login cookie, which means logging in again. IOS 6 didn't do this anywhere near as much as iOS 7. Perhaps iOS 8 will be better, or perhaps it will be even worse. I couldn't get any browsers to remember the password either. It appears they need a username as well as a password to trigger the save prompt. My current solution is to use LastPass Tab as the browser. At least it offers a way to save the password, even if it is convoluted. I wonder if a better way to make Mailman more accessible on either iphone or ipad would be to create a browser with password saving and just rearranging the existing pages with style sheets, it that's possible. Peter Shute Sent from my iPad On 15 Sep 2014, at 3:35 am, christian studer cstu...@existenz.ch wrote: Hello, I'm maintaining and moderating a couple of Mailman lists and when I was looking for an easy moderation tool, I've stumpled upon 'Mailman Moderator' for iOS [1]. Unfortunately the app isn't quite stable [2] and the original programmer isn't working on it anymore. After exchanging a couple of mails, he agreed to open source it here (MIT licensed): https://github.com/JanMisker/MailmanModerator-iOS Maybe somebody else will pick it up and polish it a little. With kind regards, christian [1]: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/mailman-moderator/id349100180?ls=1mt=8 [2]: It often crashes after moderation, no loading indicator, setup is finicky (If you're not putting the base url exactly to admindb/mailinglistname, it fails), the icon could be nicer. -- http://hymnos.existenz.ch (In Wirklichkeit gar nicht anwesend.) -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pshute%40nuw.org.au -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] dangers of using subject_prefix with new DMARC problems
Matthew Taylor wrote: Many of our users are upset that I've removed the subject_prefix from the list emails, but I'm afraid that putting them back in might cause the same problems, given the advice from EMWD in the link above: 2. Turn off Content filtering, and Reply-To: header munging and remove subject_prefix, msg_header and msg_footer so Mailman doesn't make message modifications that break Yahoo's DKIM signature. Shouldn't there be an or between 1. and 2? I would have thought if you've followed the advice in 1. then 2. shouldn't be necessary. That's what we've done, and it's working ok. Peter Shute -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Conceal list address?
Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: The problem arises because it seems one of the list moderators tends to approve all pending replies If it's not practical to fire (or perhaps even identify) that moderator, I would suggest editing the moderation template to not include the Discard all messages marked Defer options. Wouldn't removing that option make it even more likely for a moderator to approve more than they should? I.e. it's harder to clear them all out, so they have to be done one by one. Peter Shute -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Emails lost due to receipient spam filters
On 29 Aug 2014, at 1:25 am, Brian Carpenter br...@emwd.com wrote: We were/are having issues emailing Gmail users when using the mung setting so we are now instructing our mailman clients to use the Wrap Message setting. Google considers any email that breaks the 5322 RFC standard to be a violation of their best practices for sending bulk mail. Also you can use the following form to talk to Google: What were the gmail issues, Brian? We're using munging on yahoo and aol messages, and haven't seen any problems so far, apart from inconsistent Reply All behaviour of some mail clients. Peter Shute -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Emails lost due to receipient spam filters
So no bouncing? That's good, it means our Yahoo/AOL subscribers can't do any damage, and have another reason to change addresses. I haven't tried the wrapping option, but I'm not keen on it because of anticipated client issues with them. Peter Shute -Original Message- From: Brian Carpenter [mailto:br...@emwd.com] Sent: Friday, 29 August 2014 3:23 AM To: Peter Shute Cc: 'Alan Meyer'; Mailman-Users@python.org Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Emails lost due to receipient spam filters -Original Message- From: Peter Shute [mailto:psh...@nuw.org.au] Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2014 1:07 PM To: Brian Carpenter Cc: Alan Meyer; Mailman-Users@python.org Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Emails lost due to receipient spam filters On 29 Aug 2014, at 1:25 am, Brian Carpenter br...@emwd.com wrote: We were/are having issues emailing Gmail users when using the mung setting so we are now instructing our mailman clients to use the Wrap Message setting. Google considers any email that breaks the 5322 RFC standard to be a violation of their best practices for sending bulk mail. Also you can use the following form to talk to Google: What were the gmail issues, Brian? We're using munging on yahoo and aol messages, and haven't seen any problems so far, apart from inconsistent Reply All behaviour of some mail clients. Peter Shute Sporadic blocking from Gmail's mail servers but with no error message. Since Google considers breaking 5322 a bad practice, I am guessing that using mung may be related to these random blocking. But I am guessing but since recommending to our clients on our mailman servers, to start using wrap message via the Sender Filters page, we have seen Gmail delivery improvements and on some servers, the random blocking has cleared up entirely. I have submitted a ticket with Google but am still waiting to hear back from them so hopefully I will get a definitive answer to what was going on. Brian Carpenter EMWD.com Providing Cloud Services and more for over 15 years. T: 336.755.0685 E: br...@emwd.com www.emwd.com -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Fwd: Mailing list lag to SOME users
The headers seem to have been removed. We had a similar problem when our list host decided to throttle our mail. Our gmail members get postings within seconds, others can get them hours later. The more list traffic, then longer the delays, and sometimes they arrive out of order. But that was a shared mail server. Is this mail server your own? And our members are with random mail providers. Are the list members all on the same domain? Peter Shute Sent from my iPad On 19 Aug 2014, at 11:40 pm, Kevin Carpenter kev...@seaplace.org wrote: Hi all. Been casually fighting a problem for a couple of months now and have finally decided to ask for help. I have a somewhat large mailing list, about 1700 users, that is generally working just fine. However, some users are seeing LONG delays (like 4+ hours) on mail delivery while other users, in the same organization, get sub-minute delivery. Specifically, the step 6 delay in the header analysis below is typically 2 seconds. In the header analysis below please note that mail.seaplace.org and spoe.seaplace.org are just two names (DNS A records) pointing to the same box. The postfix main.cf mydestination parameter includes both. I highly suspect this is something within Postfix and hope the list's extensive experience might help. Thanks in advance, Kevin Second: --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pshute%40nuw.org.au -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Munging and Reply All behaviour with Outlook
Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: If we set from_is_list to No, how does the list behave when yahoo.com emails arrive? That depends on the setting of dmarc_moderation_action. If it is set to Accept, it just passes them through, and lets the destination decide what to do. Almost certainly you will get many bounces. So if we set fom_is_list to No and dmarc_moderation_action to Munge From, non yahoo/aol emails will go through normally, and yahoo/aol emails will get munged? That's what we want. We're seeing too many side effects from munging them all. I'm under the impression it will send them to the moderation queue, and will offer extra options like munging. No. Neither of these options can cause a message to end up in the moderation queue as currently specified. Good, we don't need that. I've been reading the messages here about these options ever since yahoo made the change that prompted their creation, but without understanding properly because we were stuck on 2.1.15. I think what you missed is that all DMARC moderation is done by a robot; no human intervention involved. Yes. I somehow got the idea there was an addional safety net that would give moderators a last chance to choose to munge or wrap at approval time. Like if dmarc_moderation_action had a Hold option. This means that only messages from badly-behaved domains get altered in ways which make life difficult for readers. For me, this is great -- it gives my *very* few p=reject members a strong incentive to subscribe an address from a good citizen domain. :-) Obviously, most admins are nowhere near so fortunate, so I can't recommend making such a rationale public. ;-) Very few of our yahoo/aol members ever post. Lots of those who did have already changed to gmail when we asked, but a couple remain. If they still won't change then they'll have to put up with this. I've discovered another side effect of munging and iOS Mail, which I'll mention in another thread. Thanks for your help, Peter Shute -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] Munging and iOS Mail display of senders' display names
We've recently enabled munging with 2.1.18-1. I think it's already been documented that this causes problems for iOS Mail users where they can no longer see who originally sent the messages. I've discovered that there's a bit more to it than that, at least in iOS 7.1.2, so I'm posting this in case others run into it. If the email is from John Smith via list-name list-n...@list-address.com and if the device owner has *not* created a Contact for list-n...@list-address.com on their device, then they'll see at least the left hand part of John Smith via list-name as the sender in the mail list and also in the From: header when they open the email. But if they *have* created a Contact for the list address, they'll only see the name they entered for it in both the mail list and in open emails. The result is conflicting reports from iOS users about whether iPhones/iPad can display who sent a list email or not. Experimenting with this, I tried altering the list address in the Contacts by adding an x on the end of it so that the Mail app wouldn't find it. Surprisingly that only made the app display John Smith via list-name in open emails. It continued to display the Contact name of the list in the mail list. It wasn't until I added an x in front of the address that it also displayed the sender's display name in the mail list. Peter Shute -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] Munging and Reply All behaviour with Outlook - was Erratic mail delivery times
We're now on a new list server, which is running v2.1.18-1. We've set from_is_list to munged, and it's now sending list messages from the list, and putting the original sender's address in Reply To as expected. On my iPad, Reply sends a message back to the original sender, which is what we want. Reply To sends a message to both the original sender and also the list, which is what we want. Apparently gmail web interface works the same way, but Outlook doesn't. Outlook sends Reply All to the original sender and anyone else that was Cc'd, but not the list. Is there a fix? Which other variables affect this? Peter Shute -Original Message- From: Mailman-Users [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+pshute=nuw.org...@python.org] On Behalf Of Mark Sapiro Sent: Tuesday, 22 July 2014 3:54 PM To: mailman-users@python.org Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Erratic mail delivery times On 07/21/2014 06:50 PM, Peter Shute wrote: That was my impression too. It sounds less disruptive, but I wonder if the resulting variability of behaviour of Reply and Reply all would just cause confusion. In 2.1.18-1, with minor exceptions, 'reply' and 'reply all' do the same things on a munged message as on a non-munged message. The exceptions are due to the fact that in 2.1.18-1 the Munge From action always puts the original From: in Reply-To: so the original From: is always somewhere. The implication of this is that with list settings first_strip_reply_to = Yes and reply_goes_to_list = This List, in the unmunged case, reply goes only to the list and in the munged case, it goes to the list and the original From: which may mean the original From: gets a dupe or only a direct and not a list copy. -- Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pshute%4 0nuw.org.au -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Munging and Reply All behaviour with Outlook - was Erratic mail delivery times
Further unwanted Reply All behaviour - a Lotus Notes user says when he sends a reply with Reply All, the list bounce address is Cc'd. It does include the list address too, which is good. Can it cause any problems to Cc the list bounce address? Peter Shute -Original Message- From: Mailman-Users [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+pshute=nuw.org...@python.org] On Behalf Of Peter Shute Sent: Monday, 18 August 2014 10:29 AM To: 'Mark Sapiro'; mailman-users@python.org Subject: [Mailman-Users] Munging and Reply All behaviour with Outlook - was Erratic mail delivery times We're now on a new list server, which is running v2.1.18-1. We've set from_is_list to munged, and it's now sending list messages from the list, and putting the original sender's address in Reply To as expected. On my iPad, Reply sends a message back to the original sender, which is what we want. Reply To sends a message to both the original sender and also the list, which is what we want. Apparently gmail web interface works the same way, but Outlook doesn't. Outlook sends Reply All to the original sender and anyone else that was Cc'd, but not the list. Is there a fix? Which other variables affect this? Peter Shute -Original Message- From: Mailman-Users [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+pshute=nuw.org...@python.org] On Behalf Of Mark Sapiro Sent: Tuesday, 22 July 2014 3:54 PM To: mailman-users@python.org Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Erratic mail delivery times On 07/21/2014 06:50 PM, Peter Shute wrote: That was my impression too. It sounds less disruptive, but I wonder if the resulting variability of behaviour of Reply and Reply all would just cause confusion. In 2.1.18-1, with minor exceptions, 'reply' and 'reply all' do the same things on a munged message as on a non-munged message. The exceptions are due to the fact that in 2.1.18-1 the Munge From action always puts the original From: in Reply-To: so the original From: is always somewhere. The implication of this is that with list settings first_strip_reply_to = Yes and reply_goes_to_list = This List, in the unmunged case, reply goes only to the list and in the munged case, it goes to the list and the original From: which may mean the original From: gets a dupe or only a direct and not a list copy. -- Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pshute%4 0nuw.org.au -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pshute%4 0nuw.org.au -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Munging and Reply All behaviour with Outlook
Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: Peter Shute writes: We're now on a new list server, which is running v2.1.18-1. We've set from_is_list to munged, and it's now sending list messages from the list, and putting the original sender's address in Reply To as expected. On my iPad, Reply sends a message back to the original sender, which is what we want. Reply To sends a message to both the original sender and also the list, which is what we want. Apparently gmail web interface works the same way, but Outlook doesn't. Outlook sends Reply All to the original sender and anyone else that was Cc'd, but not the list. Is there a fix? Which other variables affect this? No, there is no fix. Thanks, I'll stop looking for one! This ambiguity is I why I find the setting dmarc_moderation_action to 'wrap' to be preferable, since all relevant information is preserved on the inside message. However, folks using AppleMail on iOS (and maybe Mac OS too) have complained about this setting, and it's not intuitive to most subscribers. I don't think that's a good alternative then. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. That's fine, I just want to know what the options are without having to experiment with all sorts of clients. If we set from_is_list to No, how does the list behave when yahoo.com emails arrive? I'm under the impression it will send them to the moderation queue, and will offer extra options like munging. Is that correct, or am I confused? Do we have to change any other settings to make that happen? Looking now at the description of dmarc_moderation_action, I think I'm confused. Peter Shute -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] Scrub_nondigest removing html message text
We've discovered that if scrub_nondigest is set to Yes, the text of html messages (perhaps html-only?) is removed and replaced with a link to it. When users follow the link, the html tags in the text are visible because the angle brackets have been replaced with html codes. Is there a way to prevent scrub_nondigest removing these message parts? Is there a way to at least stop the angle brackets getting converted to codes? Peter Shute -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Scrub_nondigest removing html message text
Thanks for that. We're on cpanel, so I assume we can't adjust ARCHIVE_HTML_SANITIZER? I'm not sure we need html emails to come through as html, but we at least want plain text, not a link to a messed up html message. -Original Message- From: Mailman-Users [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+pshute=nuw.org...@python.org] On Behalf Of Mark Sapiro Sent: Wednesday, 13 August 2014 10:01 AM To: mailman-users@python.org Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Scrub_nondigest removing html message text On 08/12/2014 03:33 PM, Peter Shute wrote: We've discovered that if scrub_nondigest is set to Yes, the text of html messages (perhaps html-only?) is removed and replaced with a link to it. When users follow the link, the html tags in the text are visible because the angle brackets have been replaced with html codes. Is there a way to prevent scrub_nondigest removing these message parts? Is there a way to at least stop the angle brackets getting converted to codes? This is at least partially controlled by the ARCHIVE_HTML_SANITIZER setting. Read the documentation for this setting in Mailman/Defaults.py and if you want to change it from the default, set it in Mailman/mm_cfg.py. The real issue is that scrub_nondigest is something of an afterthought for people who want non-text/plain attachments to list posts removed and replaced by links. The scrubber's purpose is to flatten the message to a single text/plain part for the list's archive and the plain format digest. Thus, if you want an HTML part rendered as HTML rather than a plain text representation of the HTML source, you need to set ARCHIVE_HTML_SANITIZER = 3 which will save the HTML part aside and replace it by a link, but be sure to read the comment about this setting in Defaults.py. You can set ARCHIVE_HTML_SANITIZER = 2 which will leave the HTML inline, but it will be in a text/plain message and HTML-escaped. -- Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pshute%4 0nuw.org.au -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Scrub_nondigest removing html message text
Thanks for that, I'll give that a try. -Original Message- From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:m...@msapiro.net] Sent: Wednesday, 13 August 2014 11:52 AM To: Peter Shute; mailman-users@python.org Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Scrub_nondigest removing html message text On 08/12/2014 06:34 PM, Peter Shute wrote: Thanks for that. We're on cpanel, so I assume we can't adjust ARCHIVE_HTML_SANITIZER? That depends on your cPanel hosting service, assuming this is a hosted list. If it's your own server, you will find Defaults.py and mm_cfg.py in /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/. I'm not sure we need html emails to come through as html, but we at least want plain text, not a link to a messed up html message. Set the following in your list's Content filtering section. filter_content = Yes filter_mime_types - empty pass_mime_types - multipart text/plain text/html plus any other mime types you want to allow. filter_filename_extensions - Defaults are OK pass_filename_extensions - empty collapse_alternatives = Yes convert_html_to_plaintext = Yes -- Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] emails from mailman rejected with error reject=550 Relaying denied. IP name possibly forged
Abdullah AL-Maskari wrote: I should have probably mentioned that I have another instance of mailman running on another server on the network and it is not having any trouble sending mail through mailhost. The sendmail files I am using for my mailman installation have been copied from the other server as the whole idea is to migrate from the currently working server to the one I built. I will look at the spam filter configurations and my DNS but I dont see how any of those systems could be broken if the original mailman server is working fine. Because different recipient servers respond differently to wrongly configured DNS, it might just be coincidence that the other list isn't having the same trouble. It might also be that it is having the same trouble, but with far less recipients. Peter Shute -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] emails from mailman rejected with error reject=550 Relaying denied. IP name possibly forged
Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: It occurs to me that the DNS problem may be that your HELO hostname (in the SMTP transaction) doesn't match the reverse lookup for the IP observed in the TCP connection. That should be easy to fix in the Sendmail configuration. That sounds like something similar to what happened to us when someone decided they'd reconfigure our mail server to send from a different ip address than we receive mail on. We got away with it for a long time, but as more recipients installed spam filters (this was a few years ago), we began to see more bounces when we sent mail. Fixed by setting up reverse lookup for the sending address. Peter Shute -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Erratic mail delivery times
I'm glad to hear that, although I think I'll have to try it to get my head around it. Peter Shute Sent from my iPad On 22 Jul 2014, at 3:54 pm, Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.net wrote: On 07/21/2014 06:50 PM, Peter Shute wrote: That was my impression too. It sounds less disruptive, but I wonder if the resulting variability of behaviour of Reply and Reply all would just cause confusion. In 2.1.18-1, with minor exceptions, 'reply' and 'reply all' do the same things on a munged message as on a non-munged message. The exceptions are due to the fact that in 2.1.18-1 the Munge From action always puts the original From: in Reply-To: so the original From: is always somewhere. The implication of this is that with list settings first_strip_reply_to = Yes and reply_goes_to_list = This List, in the unmunged case, reply goes only to the list and in the munged case, it goes to the list and the original From: which may mean the original From: gets a dupe or only a direct and not a list copy. -- Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pshute%40nuw.org.au -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Erratic mail delivery times
Thanks, Dave. How are you coping with yahoo emails if you've only got 2.1.17? I can't remember what changes it's got in it, but I thought the latest dealt with it better. Peter Shute Sent from my iPad On 22 Jul 2014, at 3:59 am, Dave Nathanson dave.li...@nathanson.org wrote: Hi Peter, To answer your question, Dreamhost has the *almost* newest version of MailMan 2.1.17. They upgraded just as 2.1.18 came out and had already tested 2.1.17 so they went with that. And this version does have the most important DMARC mitigation features. So it is working for us. I have never had any problem with DreamHost imposing a message sending cap on their 1-Click installs of Mailman. I run several discussion lists there completely without incident, for 8 years Until this whole Yahoo/demarc mess. And we are back to normal. No host is perfect, but considering the low price all the unlimited everything they offer, I'm very happy with mine. Considering the price you have been paying, you will most likely need to pay more to get out of this problem, but maybe not much more. http://www.dreamhost.com/r.cgi?250640/hosting.html Best, Dave Nathanson Mac Medix On Jul 20, 2014, at 1:35 PM, Peter Shute psh...@nuw.org.au wrote: No, it's all hosted via cpanel. Does this mail per hour limit seem odd with that sort of setup? Does dreamhost keep their mailman up to date? We're still on 2.1.15, and when I asked about upgrading, they wouldn't commit to any date, only that it would be more likely to be months than a month. Peter Shute Sent from my iPad On 21 Jul 2014, at 1:35 am, Dave Nathanson dave.li...@nathanson.org wrote: I'm surprised that any web/email host would apply a rule intended for a personal email account to a listserve. I'm guessing that you are running MailMan on your own computer, then using mail server provided by your email hosting company to send the messages. So to the email host, you do look like a very busy personal account. As I see it, your options include: * Discuss this limitation with your email host see if they will waive the message sending cap for your listserv. * Use a mailman installation hosted by your email hosting company, which is not subject to a message sending cap. * Changing email hosts using a mailman installation hosted by your email hosting company, which is not subject to a message sending cap. No need to change registrars. NameCheap is a good registrar, better than many. I haven't used their web/email hosting. My email lists are all running on Mailman provided by my email host. You don't even need to install it, just choose a dedicated subdomain for it to run on. They do NOT limit message flow from Mailman, although they do limit the number of messages per hour sent from a personal mail account. No web/email host is perfect, but I'm pretty happy with DreamHost. Especially for about $100 a year for more services than I can possibly use. (And I'm giving it a good go!). Here is a Dreamhost Coupon code link that will give you $10 off now, plus 1 free LIFETIME domain registration. So that's a savings of about $11 a year for life. MACMEDIXFREEDOM What else is included? Tons! Check it out. http://www.dreamhost.com/r.cgi?250640/hosting.html Best, Dave Nathanson Mac Medix On Jul 20, 2014, at 4:38 AM, Russell Woodford rdwoodf...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Peter, Mark and all I think I may have the solution now (Peter is one of our list moderators). My web host is now telling me that there is a 200 emails per hour limit for my hosting plan. We have 1140 subscribers. That means we blow the limit out of the water EVERY time someone posts! I'm not sure why they have taken so long to tell me this, as we've been running on this host for over 7 months, but it seems they throttle the outgoing mail volume, so it can take a while for all those recipients to get each message. I suppose it depends on overall server activity - if nothing else is happening, then maybe a new message does get straight to 1140 recipients. Looks like we will need to shift to a new listserver and maybe even a new webhost - and maybe even a new domain registrar (I've had all my eggs in the Namecheap basket for some years now). Somehow I don't think I am going to get away with this volume of mail for the $50 a year I'm currently paying :-( Russell Woodford Geelong, Australia birding-aus.org On 18 July 2014 11:20, Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.net wrote: On 07/17/2014 05:01 PM, Peter Shute wrote: I've now enabled protocol logging on our Exchange server, a new world for me. I can see several possibly relevant events in yesterday's logs that look like this: 2014-07-17T07:02:03.914Z,NUWVICMS2\Default NUWVICMS2,08D145520008BC68,24, 192.168.0.36:25,192.64.112.70:38732,,550 5.7.1 Requested action not taken: message refused, This is a 550 (extended 5.7.,1) status which
Re: [Mailman-Users] Erratic mail delivery times
Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: IIRC the big difference between 2.1.17 and 2.1.18-1[1] is that in 2.1.17 the DMARC-mitigation features[2] are applied to *all* posts, whereas in 2.1.18 you have the option of checking the DMARC policy and only making those ugly changes to posts *from domains with a p=reject DMARC policy* (requires an additional Python package to make the DNS check for the policy). That was my impression too. It sounds less disruptive, but I wonder if the resulting variability of behaviour of Reply and Reply all would just cause confusion. Peter Shute -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Erratic mail delivery times
Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: That was my impression too. It sounds less disruptive, but I wonder if the resulting variability of behaviour of Reply and Reply all would just cause confusion. But you're right, people do report the difference. So it It's the people who don't notice the difference that I'm worried about. If someone has been relying on the fact that clicking Reply will create a private reply, they're going to try it on a munged one and not notice. Then it'll be them defending themselves for whatever inappropriate remark they've accicentally sent to the list, not the Yahoo user. I can see myself getting caught out by it, it's hard to remember to look how it's set up. I'm still all for rejecting and forwarding them by hand, with an explanatory note at the top. Then at least the private replies will only go to me. But we need 2.1.18-1 to help us detect them reliably. N.B. You're posting from edu.au. Do you really have that many yahoo.COM users that you care about a difference in their treatment? If the majority of your Yahoo!/AOL users are from a different country, they may very well *not* have p=reject policies. Eg: I did recently realise they weren't all affected, but most of our yahoo users are on yahoo.com. Peter Shute -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Erratic mail delivery times
No, it's all hosted via cpanel. Does this mail per hour limit seem odd with that sort of setup? Does dreamhost keep their mailman up to date? We're still on 2.1.15, and when I asked about upgrading, they wouldn't commit to any date, only that it would be more likely to be months than a month. Peter Shute Sent from my iPad On 21 Jul 2014, at 1:35 am, Dave Nathanson dave.li...@nathanson.org wrote: I'm surprised that any web/email host would apply a rule intended for a personal email account to a listserve. I'm guessing that you are running MailMan on your own computer, then using mail server provided by your email hosting company to send the messages. So to the email host, you do look like a very busy personal account. As I see it, your options include: * Discuss this limitation with your email host see if they will waive the message sending cap for your listserv. * Use a mailman installation hosted by your email hosting company, which is not subject to a message sending cap. * Changing email hosts using a mailman installation hosted by your email hosting company, which is not subject to a message sending cap. No need to change registrars. NameCheap is a good registrar, better than many. I haven't used their web/email hosting. My email lists are all running on Mailman provided by my email host. You don't even need to install it, just choose a dedicated subdomain for it to run on. They do NOT limit message flow from Mailman, although they do limit the number of messages per hour sent from a personal mail account. No web/email host is perfect, but I'm pretty happy with DreamHost. Especially for about $100 a year for more services than I can possibly use. (And I'm giving it a good go!). Here is a Dreamhost Coupon code link that will give you $10 off now, plus 1 free LIFETIME domain registration. So that's a savings of about $11 a year for life. MACMEDIXFREEDOM What else is included? Tons! Check it out. http://www.dreamhost.com/r.cgi?250640/hosting.html Best, Dave Nathanson Mac Medix On Jul 20, 2014, at 4:38 AM, Russell Woodford rdwoodf...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Peter, Mark and all I think I may have the solution now (Peter is one of our list moderators). My web host is now telling me that there is a 200 emails per hour limit for my hosting plan. We have 1140 subscribers. That means we blow the limit out of the water EVERY time someone posts! I'm not sure why they have taken so long to tell me this, as we've been running on this host for over 7 months, but it seems they throttle the outgoing mail volume, so it can take a while for all those recipients to get each message. I suppose it depends on overall server activity - if nothing else is happening, then maybe a new message does get straight to 1140 recipients. Looks like we will need to shift to a new listserver and maybe even a new webhost - and maybe even a new domain registrar (I've had all my eggs in the Namecheap basket for some years now). Somehow I don't think I am going to get away with this volume of mail for the $50 a year I'm currently paying :-( Russell Woodford Geelong, Australia birding-aus.org On 18 July 2014 11:20, Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.net wrote: On 07/17/2014 05:01 PM, Peter Shute wrote: I've now enabled protocol logging on our Exchange server, a new world for me. I can see several possibly relevant events in yesterday's logs that look like this: 2014-07-17T07:02:03.914Z,NUWVICMS2\Default NUWVICMS2,08D145520008BC68,24, 192.168.0.36:25,192.64.112.70:38732,,550 5.7.1 Requested action not taken: message refused, This is a 550 (extended 5.7.,1) status which is a permanent failure. This is a bounce and will (should) not be retried by the sending server. I doubt that this specific log message has anything to do with your delayed messages. But if the antispam software is refusing the messages, how do they eventually get through? Exactly. You could look at the logs on the 192.64.112.70 sending server to see what that server did with this message after it was bounced by the exchange server. If the Mailman server is sending directly to the exchange server and that is where the delays are occurring, you need to look at the MTA logs of the Mailman server and see what's there relevant to sending failures and resends. But, this thread no longer has anything to do with Mailman. Perhaps you could find another list/forum to discuss this that might be able to provide more expertise in this area. -- -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users
Re: [Mailman-Users] Erratic mail delivery times
That dreamhost page says there's an smtp limit of 100 recipients an hour, which would be unworkable for 1000 plus members, but also mentions announce lists, which don't have limits. The announce lists page says these are different from discussion lists, but the discussion lists page doesn't mention limits. I assume when you mention not keeping mailman up to date, you're referring to our current provider, not dreamhost? Peter Shute -Original Message- From: Brian Carpenter [mailto:br...@emwd.com] Sent: Monday, 21 July 2014 7:50 AM To: Peter Shute; 'Dave Nathanson' Cc: mailman-users@python.org Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Erratic mail delivery times Dreamhost also throttles their SMTP servers: http://wiki.dreamhost.com/SMTP_quota By not keeping their Mailman installation up to date is also VERY problematic since certain ISPs' DMARC policies impacts mailing lists everywhere. If you were serious about your mailing list(s), I would not use them. Using us on the other hand makes a lot of sense. :^) http://www.mailmanhost.com Brian Carpenter EMWD.com Providing Cloud Services and more for over 15 years. T: 336.755.0685 E: br...@emwd.com www.emwd.com No, it's all hosted via cpanel. Does this mail per hour limit seem odd with that sort of setup? Does dreamhost keep their mailman up to date? We're still on 2.1.15, and when I asked about upgrading, they wouldn't commit to any date, only that it would be more likely to be months than a month. Peter Shute Sent from my iPad On 21 Jul 2014, at 1:35 am, Dave Nathanson dave.li...@nathanson.org wrote: I'm surprised that any web/email host would apply a rule intended for a personal email account to a listserve. I'm guessing that you are running MailMan on your own computer, then using mail server provided by your email hosting company to send the messages. So to the email host, you do look like a very busy personal account. As I see it, your options include: * Discuss this limitation with your email host see if they will waive the message sending cap for your listserv. * Use a mailman installation hosted by your email hosting company, which is not subject to a message sending cap. * Changing email hosts using a mailman installation hosted by your email hosting company, which is not subject to a message sending cap. No need to change registrars. NameCheap is a good registrar, better than many. I haven't used their web/email hosting. My email lists are all running on Mailman provided by my email host. You don't even need to install it, just choose a dedicated subdomain for it to run on. They do NOT limit message flow from Mailman, although they do limit the number of messages per hour sent from a personal mail account. No web/email host is perfect, but I'm pretty happy with DreamHost. Especially for about $100 a year for more services than I can possibly use. (And I'm giving it a good go!). Here is a Dreamhost Coupon code link that will give you $10 off now, plus 1 free LIFETIME domain registration. So that's a savings of about $11 a year for life. MACMEDIXFREEDOM What else is included? Tons! Check it out. http://www.dreamhost.com/r.cgi?250640/hosting.html Best, Dave Nathanson Mac Medix On Jul 20, 2014, at 4:38 AM, Russell Woodford rdwoodf...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Peter, Mark and all I think I may have the solution now (Peter is one of our list moderators). My web host is now telling me that there is a 200 emails per hour limit for my hosting plan. We have 1140 subscribers. That means we blow the limit out of the water EVERY time someone posts! I'm not sure why they have taken so long to tell me this, as we've been running on this host for over 7 months, but it seems they throttle the outgoing mail volume, so it can take a while for all those recipients to get each message. I suppose it depends on overall server activity - if nothing else is happening, then maybe a new message does get straight to 1140 recipients. Looks like we will need to shift to a new listserver and maybe even a new webhost - and maybe even a new domain registrar (I've had all my eggs in the Namecheap basket for some years now). Somehow I don't think I am going to get away with this volume of mail for the $50 a year I'm currently paying :-( Russell Woodford Geelong, Australia birding-aus.org On 18 July 2014 11:20, Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.net wrote: On 07/17/2014 05:01 PM, Peter Shute wrote: I've now enabled protocol logging on our Exchange server, a new world for me. I can see several possibly relevant events in yesterday's logs that look like this: 2014-07-17T07:02:03.914Z
Re: [Mailman-Users] Erratic mail delivery times
Mark Sapiro wrote: That said, if you search the archives of this list, you will find many reports of hosting services that provide Mailman list support and limit outgoing mail rates from those lists. Is limiting normally applied strictly per recipient? Or does it reduce the problem if lots of the members are on one domain? 50% of our members are with just 5 domains. Peter Shute -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Erratic mail delivery times
Mark Sapiro wrote: Is limiting normally applied strictly per recipient? Or does it reduce the problem if lots of the members are on one domain? 50% of our members are with just 5 domains. It depends on the specific service and their policies. They could limit recipients or SMTP transactions. If they limit recipients, there's not much you can do. I think they said it was a recipient limit. If the limit is on transactions, you can leave Mailman's default settings for SMTP_MAX_RCPTS (500) VERP (No) and personalization (No) and Mailman will group domains into a few transactions with many RCPTs and this may help. I don't think we'd have access to those settings with cpanel anyway, would we? But the question remains. If MTA rate limiting is the answer, why did it only start not long ago (In one post you said 11 July). They claim we were sending spam, and they noticed a huge spike in the amount of SMTP traffic (2.5GB vs the usual 10MB or so) on the 10th. they didn't show us stats for the numbers of emails, only the size. We think someone somehow hacked our account and really was sending spam, although we've only got their word for it. If they were sending it to list members that would explain the mail rejections I was seeing in my own logs. Anyway, it's obvious that the topic of these limits is an old one, and the only new thing here is that we somehow got lucky and they didn't apply them for a long time. I think I'd have prefered if we'd known from the start. Time to concentrate on moving to a new provider. Peter Shute -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Erratic mail delivery times
Thanks for taking the time to reply to those points. Since my discovery and fixing of the diskspace problem that was causing Exchange to apply what it calls back pressure to incoming mail, the delays have continued. The disk space problem had only been adding to the problem, not causing it. I've now enabled protocol logging on our Exchange server, a new world for me. I can see several possibly relevant events in yesterday's logs that look like this: 2014-07-17T07:02:03.914Z,NUWVICMS2\Default NUWVICMS2,08D145520008BC68,24,192.168.0.36:25,192.64.112.70:38732,,550 5.7.1 Requested action not taken: message refused, 192.64.112.70 is the list's mail server, and I can see entries where mail has been delivered successfully from that address. Googling that message found a few people blaming it on Symantec antispam, which we use here at work. As a test, I subscribed myself a second time to the same list with a gmail address. I sent a test message to the list, and it came through to the gmail address within a minute or two, but took 66 minutes to reach my work address. Then I subscribed a thrid time with an outlook.com address and sent another test message. Again it arrived in the gmail mailbox within a couple of minutes. It arrived in the outlook.com and my work mailboxes around the same time, 12 minutes later. I believe outlook.com also used Symantec antispam, so this seems to be the common factor. It makes sense that this might suddenly start happening, coinciding with an antispam signature update. But if the antispam software is refusing the messages, how do they eventually get through? Peter Shute -Original Message- From: Mailman-Users [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+pshute=nuw.org...@python.org] On Behalf Of Stephen J. Turnbull Sent: Tuesday, 15 July 2014 4:30 PM To: Barry S. Finkel Cc: mailman-users@python.org Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Erratic mail delivery times Barry S. Finkel writes: On 7/14/2014 8:43 PM, Peter Shute wrote: Would grey listing show up in the headers? We haven't installedgrey listing here, but who know what our anti spam does. If it'susing it then it certainly isn't using it consistently. I can'tsee anything in the Exchange Message Tracking logs that showsanything unusual as they come in. They simply arrive late. It might, depending on the receiving software. My system shows this: X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (mx.example.org [10.0.0.1]); Mon, 14 Jul 2014 21:57:46 -0400 (EDT) These are the top two headers from a delayed message. Does thistell me anything other than it was received by the serverupstream of mine 21 minutes before it was received by mine? Not that I can see. If so then the delay could be before that upstream server sent iton, or while it waited for my server to accept it. Yes. If it tried several times, would that be shown in the headers? Normally, no. The server26 machine accepted the mail from localhost at 18:50:48 . The NUWVICMS2 machine accepted the mail from server26 at 09:11:01 The time difference is 9:12 + 11:01 = 20:12. Twenty minutes seems a long time for greylisting. Why? My host will continue to refuse mail for 15 minutes before autowhitelisting, but most mail gets delayed for 2-4 hours depending on the retry cycle of the sending machine (the host doesn't get a lot of mail from most sites). You would have to look at the mail logs from the NUWVICMS2 machine to see what it was doing from 08:50 until 09:11 (GMT+1000) to know why the mail was delayed. Also, the logs on the server16 machine would probably tell if server26 tried an earlier connection to the NUWVICMS2 machine. This should also appear in the NUWVICMS2 machine logs if it was greylisting. Steve -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pshute%4 0nuw.org.au -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] Erratic mail delivery times
As a moderator of our list, I know when messages are approved, and I'm seeing very erratic delivery times to my own address, which is on an Exchange server. They used to come through within a minute or so, now they can take 20 minutes or an hour. I subscribed my gmail address for comparison, and am finding that the same list messages come through to it as quickly as ever. From those observations I would conclude that the Exchange server is having problems receiving external mail, but I've found that test messages sent from my gmail account to my Exchange address come through within seconds. Can I assume this has nothing to do with mailman? Peter Shute Sent from my iPad -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Erratic mail delivery times
Just for interest, the email below took 15 minutes to arrive back. I'm sure they normally come back way faster than that, which makes me think it's a problem with the Exchange server. But what sort of problem makes a server take longer to receive a list message than a direct message? Peter Shute Sent from my iPad On 14 Jul 2014, at 9:44 pm, Peter Shute psh...@nuw.org.au wrote: As a moderator of our list, I know when messages are approved, and I'm seeing very erratic delivery times to my own address, which is on an Exchange server. They used to come through within a minute or so, now they can take 20 minutes or an hour. I subscribed my gmail address for comparison, and am finding that the same list messages come through to it as quickly as ever. From those observations I would conclude that the Exchange server is having problems receiving external mail, but I've found that test messages sent from my gmail account to my Exchange address come through within seconds. Can I assume this has nothing to do with mailman? Peter Shute Sent from my iPad -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pshute%40nuw.org.au -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Erratic mail delivery times
Would grey listing show up in the headers? We haven't installed grey listing here, but who know what our anti spam does. If it's using it then it certainly isn't using it consistently. I can't see anything in the Exchange Message Tracking logs that shows anything unusual as they come in. They simply arrive late. I dumped from Outlook the last few weeeks of send and received times for stuff I've received from this list. Some of the delays will be moderation time, but I can see that the number of messages delayed longer than a few minutes increased greatly on 11/7/14, but that there is still the occasional one that comes though within a minute. These are the top two headers from a delayed message. Does this tell me anything other than it was received by the server upstream of mine 21 minutes before it was received by mine? If so then the delay could be before that upstream server sent it on, or while it waited for my server to accept it. If it tried several times, would that be shown in the headers? Received: from s26.web-hosting.com (192.64.112.70) by NUWVICMS2.nuw.org.au (192.168.0.36) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 8.1.436.0; Fri, 11 Jul 2014 09:11:01 +1000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37183 helo=server26.web-hosting.com) by server26.web-hosting.com with esmtp (Exim 4.82)(envelope-from birding-aus-boun...@birding-aus.org) id 1X5NAu-001sA8-Fw; Thu, 10 Jul 2014 18:50:48 -0400 -Original Message- From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:m...@msapiro.net] Sent: Monday, 14 July 2014 10:55 PM To: Peter Shute; GNU mailman users Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Erratic mail delivery times On July 14, 2014 4:29:16 AM PDT, Peter Shute psh...@nuw.org.au wrote: Can I assume this has nothing to do with mailman? Look at the Received: headers in the received message to determine where the delay is. Could grey listing be involved? -- Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.net Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. [Unpaid endorsement] -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Erratic mail delivery times
Thanks for that, Mark. I've discovered one possible reason - we're low on space on our Exchange server, which caused it to process external incoming mail erratically. The free space limit before delays on our old server was 1GB, the new one is higher than I expected at 2.7GB (I never knew it was a percentage of total disk space). This doesn't explain though why SOME external mail (including most but not all from this list) was coming in quickly though. Might just be a coincidence. We've cleared some space, so I'll know if this was the problem when the next list message arrives. Peter Shute -Original Message- From: Mailman-Users [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+pshute=nuw.org...@python.org] On Behalf Of Mark Sapiro Sent: Tuesday, 15 July 2014 12:59 PM To: mailman-users@python.org Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Erratic mail delivery times On 07/14/2014 06:55 PM, Barry S. Finkel wrote: On 7/14/2014 8:43 PM, Peter Shute wrote: Would grey listing show up in the headers? We haven't installed grey listing here, but who know what our anti spam does. Greylisting may or may not show in headers depending on the software doing it. For example, Postgrey adds a header like X-Greylist: delayed 427 seconds by postgrey-1.34 at sbh16.songbird.com; Sat, 12 Jul 2014 18:14:34 PDT If it's using it then it certainly isn't using it consistently. I can't see anything in the Exchange Message Tracking logs that shows anything unusual as they come in. They simply arrive late. See below. I dumped from Outlook the last few weeeks of send and received times for stuff I've received from this list. Some of the delays will be moderation time, but I can see that the number of messages delayed longer than a few minutes increased greatly on 11/7/14, but that there is still the occasional one that comes though within a minute. This could be due to greylisting. Intelligent greylisting keeps track of sending servers, and after a server has successfully retried a small number of messages, there is no point in further greylisting that server because the server is known to retry. These are the top two headers from a delayed message. Does this tell me anything other than it was received by the server upstream of mine 21 minutes before it was received by mine? If so then the delay could be before that upstream server sent it on, or while it waited for my server to accept it. If it tried several times, would that be shown in the headers? You are correct, the delay was in transmission from the upstream server to your exchange server. The headers tell you nothing more than that. However, in this case, if greylisting is involved, it is your exchange server doing it and there should be evidence in the exchange server's logs of the initial connect and temporary reject at about the time the upstream server received the message and initially tried to relay it. Of course, there can be other reasons such as network issues why the sending server's initial sending attempt failed, and these may not be logged in your server. You'd have to see the logs of the sending server to know what happened and why in these cases. ... Twenty minutes seems a long time for greylisting. There are two times involved in greylisting. The first is the recipient (greylisting) servers early retry time, i.e. the time before which the server says this retry is too soon. That is typically short, on the order of 5 minutes. The second is the delay before the sending server retries. This depends on the retry strategy of the sending server and can easily exceed 20 minutes. -- Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pshute%4 0nuw.org.au -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman message IDs? Disappearing Posts
Confusing things more is that not all Yahoo domains are set to p=reject. E.g. Yahoo.com.au doesn't, but yahoo.com does. Are all your yahoo members on yahoo.com? Peter Shute Sent from my iPad On 13 Jul 2014, at 7:10 am, Steven Owens stevenjow...@gmail.com wrote: I have some new data just now, as one of the list subscribers finally reported that they had seen one of the posts in question. Also, confusing the issue was the fact that my gmail account is receiving other list messages, but not list messages from those users, and there was no sign of a bounce from gmail. However, I did some googling and apparently it's not unknown for gmail to silently discard messages... sigh. What's weird is that hotmail/yahoo/gmail are discarding or bouncing some messages, and allowing some others through. One yahoo user's posts get through while another's done. Doing some more googling, it looks like a lot of spam filtering / blocking policies changed recently. I guess I need to study up. If you have any suggestions for where to start, I'm all ears (well, eyes). I was going to ask if there's a log level setting that I can turn up, but google shows you replying to a similar request with no :-). Thanks for the help. -- Steven J. Owens stevenjow...@gmail.com p...@darksleep.com 412-401-8060 -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pshute%40nuw.org.au -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about rejection messages.
Do you know if any of the reminders to Comcast addresses are getting through? Peter Shute -Original Message- From: Mailman-Users [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+pshute=nuw.org...@python.org] On Behalf Of Robert Heller Sent: Tuesday, 1 July 2014 9:50 PM To: Mailman Users Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about rejection messages. I am the site admin of a server that hosts a bunch of Mailman lists and on the 1st of the month Mailman sends out its monthly reminder messages. Some of these messages are bouncing. Some are *obviously* for people who have changed E-Mail providers (the bunces say 'User Unknown' or 'Mailbox full'). But some have 'odd' rejection reasons and I wonder what it really going on. Comcast is bouncing with the message: reason: 554 Transaction Failed Spam Message not queued. Is this Comcast's way of 'hiding' the fact that the E-Mail address is no longer valid? That is, does Comcast consider E-Mail to unknown users spam? -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Scrub_nondigest questions
On 23 Jun 2014, at 4:08 pm, Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.net wrote: Will we be able to selectively delete images when our disk space begins to fill up? Or will they all be stored in a single archive file? We're using cpanel, if that matters. I don't think cPanel is different. The attachments for a message are stored individually in the directory archives/private/LISTNAME/attachments/mmdd//. mmdd is the date and is a hash of the message, so you can delete individual files or the directory for all attachments for a single message or the mmdd directory for all attachments from a given day. Any idea if we'll have access to that area in cPanel? I'm not the list owner, I can't test it for myself. And does the value of archive_volume_frequency affect where they're stored? If anyone who's using this option could forward me a message from their list with a linked image so I can check how well it works, that would be greatly appreciated Thanks for sending the sample. Peter Shute -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Scrub_nondigest questions may be attachment-move custom handler
I was testing that for you a few weeks ago. I just tried again, and it seems to work smoothly now. Could that be made to automatically resize images? E.g. maximum dimensions 800x800 pixels. Peter Shute Sent from my iPad On 23 Jun 2014, at 7:30 pm, Sylvain Viart sylv...@opensource-expert.com wrote: Hi Peter, I programmed a custom handler that complete or replace Scrub_nondigest handler: AttachmentMove You can test or try it here: http://mailman.opensource-expert.com/mailman/listinfo/attachment-move Hosting in done in France and could be slow to reach from foreign countries. This running version is not commited yet, minor i8n changes. It's also working in production of a customer with a list of 930 subscribers since 3 weeks. The code and the doc : https://github.com/Sylvain303/mailman-AttachmentMove Le 23/06/2014 10:03, Peter Shute a écrit : If anyone who's using this option could forward me a message from their list with a linked image so I can check how well it works, that would be greatly appreciated AttachmentMove keeps embedded images, they could be moved as well. The remote hosting for attachment can be same or a different one that the server running mailman. To reply to your first post: We're considering enabling the scrub_nondigest option for our list. The aim is to allow members to send jpg files to the list (currently filtered) and have mailman include a link to them in messages instead of the actual attachment. That is the purpose of AttachmentMove. I believe it will store the scrubbed images in the archives. We have archiving turned off. Do we need to turn them on to allow the images to be placed there, or will it happen anyway? Attachment are stored locally and on a remote hosting. The local storage (on the mailman server) is not the archive. And it is used to avoid duplicate file name when uploaded on the webserver. Once we have images stored in the archives, how easy is it for members to access them when they click on the links in the messages? Will they need a password to see them? AttachmentMove, publish the image on a different hosting no password are required, the goal was to keeps user away for technical details. Will we be able to selectively delete images when our disk space begins to fill up? Or will they all be stored in a single archive file? We're using cpanel, if that matters. Not storage management is coded yet, a cron with the good find -mtime could do the trick. It's in my idea to handle that too. If anyone who's using this option could forward me a message from their list with a linked image so I can check how well it works, that would be greatly appreciated. I sent you an example we have made on the test list. Let me know if that meet your needs. Regards, Sylvain. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
