Re: [Mailman-Users] Complaints about MM 2.1.6b4
Thanks for the information. Let me ask one more question along this track of new things mailman 2.1.x included that was done differently than 2.0.x. Under the membership management section, up to some number of e-mail addresses, mailman splits the e-mail addresses into alphabetized sections. One of our list admins would like to have mailman show all of the e-mail addresses in a single window, if possible, or into multiple windows of 50 or 100 e-mail address chunks. The list admin complains that he has to click on the first letter of each section of e-mail addresses to change a setting. Is there a way to do this with mailman 2.1.6b4 with a option in the default.py file or is this something I would have to submit to the mailman developers as a new feature? Regards, Darren Old Dominion University On Fri, 2005-09-09 at 18:38, Mark Sapiro wrote: Darren G Pifer I believe she is saying is that if she is a member of her own list, she still has to approve the message before it goes out. If she was not a member of list and was in the non-member list of addresses for her list, then the mail would go out without approval. I don't know this affects MM processing, if the member address member name has the mod flag set, and she sends to her list, will it still be held for approval? Yes, and that appears to be the issue here. If she is a moderated member, her posts are supposed to be held for approval (or otherwise disposed of according to member_moderation_action). That's what moderated means. It makes no difference whether she is a list owner or moderator herself. If she is moderated, the only way she can post without the post being held is to include an Approved: list_administrator_password line in her post either as a header or as an initial body line. If included in the body, it is best to make it the first line and follow it with a blank line as at least some Mailman versions will remove the line following when removing the Approved: line from the post. Also, she is correct that in Mailman 2.1.x there is no list per se of members who are allowed to post without moderation. You have to turn off moderation individually for those members who you want to post without moderation. It would be simple for someone who knows Mailman and Python to create a withlist script that would turn off moderation for a list of members, but as far as I know there isn't one currently available. In another post in this thread Darren wrote: On Tue, 2005-09-06 at 10:29, Brad Knowles wrote: The newest problem is: Because Classroom is a shared email account, it shows the real sender - who is a member of the list with a check-mark in the MOD box, so it holds the email and waits for administrator approval. Make sure that your MUA properly uses the desired sender address as both the envelope sender and in the header From: and Sender: fields. Or, go into your mm_cfg.py file and change what fields you look at for determining list membership. If you don't have explicit settings for this, see the examples from Defaults.py, then copy them over to mm_cfg.py and change as necessary for your installation. These are settings for envelope sender from Defaults.py which is looking like it is doing the right thing. The setting in Defaults.py is 'USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER = No' which says use the headers as specified in SENDER_HEADERS. How can we confirm that the MUA is doing the right thing? Would this be one of the mailers sendmail would be using, like mlocal? The MUA is the 'user agent' (also called e-mail client) that the user uses to compose and send the mail. This is normally what sets fields such as From: and envelope sender in a mail message. If users want to post using the classroom address, they may need to set up a separate 'account' in their MUA to post from. You can verify what is being done by having them send to you and examining the full headers of the message you receive. Note that there should be a Return-Path: header indicating the envelope sender. But note, It will be only a very short time before students figure out how to post from 'classroom'. That's why this method is not recommended as a secure posting method on a one-way or few-to-many type of list. The secure way to do this is by moderating everyone and giving authorized posters the list password so they can post with an Approved: header. See http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showfile=faq03.034.htp -- Mark Sapiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Re: [Mailman-Users] Complaints about MM 2.1.6b4
Hello Brad, I don't want you to get in the middle of something between the list administrator and myself, however, I just want this issue to be clear. The list admin still has problems with the way the new mailman handles mail she sends to her list and gets held for a list admins approval. Her response to your answer is below highlighted by * characters. Just so that I understand this correctly, I believe she is saying is that if she is a member of her own list, she still has to approve the message before it goes out. If she was not a member of list and was in the non-member list of addresses for her list, then the mail would go out without approval. I don't know this affects MM processing, if the member address member name has the mod flag set, and she sends to her list, will it still be held for approval? On Tue, 2005-09-06 at 10:29, Brad Knowles wrote: At 10:08 AM -0400 2005-09-06, Darren G Pifer wrote: The old system had a box to enter addresses for all people who can post to the list without administrator approval. We were able to copy and paste the same list into each list serve. The box does not exist in the new system. Yes, it does. Go to the web admin interface for your list. Go to the Privacy options... section. From there, go down to the Sender filters sub-page. The second box down from the top will have the description List of non-member addresses whose postings should be automatically accepted. That's what you want. * - the operative words in this case are NON-MEMBER ADDRESSES. If you want to be a MEMBER so you can receive emails, you cannot be a NON-MEMBER in this box. The MEMBER options override the entry in the NON-MEMBER box. We tried adding me as a non-member and it still did not work. I am a MEMBER in each listserve. * Darren -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Complaints about MM 2.1.6b4
Darren G Pifer I believe she is saying is that if she is a member of her own list, she still has to approve the message before it goes out. If she was not a member of list and was in the non-member list of addresses for her list, then the mail would go out without approval. I don't know this affects MM processing, if the member address member name has the mod flag set, and she sends to her list, will it still be held for approval? Yes, and that appears to be the issue here. If she is a moderated member, her posts are supposed to be held for approval (or otherwise disposed of according to member_moderation_action). That's what moderated means. It makes no difference whether she is a list owner or moderator herself. If she is moderated, the only way she can post without the post being held is to include an Approved: list_administrator_password line in her post either as a header or as an initial body line. If included in the body, it is best to make it the first line and follow it with a blank line as at least some Mailman versions will remove the line following when removing the Approved: line from the post. Also, she is correct that in Mailman 2.1.x there is no list per se of members who are allowed to post without moderation. You have to turn off moderation individually for those members who you want to post without moderation. It would be simple for someone who knows Mailman and Python to create a withlist script that would turn off moderation for a list of members, but as far as I know there isn't one currently available. In another post in this thread Darren wrote: On Tue, 2005-09-06 at 10:29, Brad Knowles wrote: The newest problem is: Because Classroom is a shared email account, it shows the real sender - who is a member of the list with a check-mark in the MOD box, so it holds the email and waits for administrator approval. Make sure that your MUA properly uses the desired sender address as both the envelope sender and in the header From: and Sender: fields. Or, go into your mm_cfg.py file and change what fields you look at for determining list membership. If you don't have explicit settings for this, see the examples from Defaults.py, then copy them over to mm_cfg.py and change as necessary for your installation. These are settings for envelope sender from Defaults.py which is looking like it is doing the right thing. The setting in Defaults.py is 'USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER = No' which says use the headers as specified in SENDER_HEADERS. How can we confirm that the MUA is doing the right thing? Would this be one of the mailers sendmail would be using, like mlocal? The MUA is the 'user agent' (also called e-mail client) that the user uses to compose and send the mail. This is normally what sets fields such as From: and envelope sender in a mail message. If users want to post using the classroom address, they may need to set up a separate 'account' in their MUA to post from. You can verify what is being done by having them send to you and examining the full headers of the message you receive. Note that there should be a Return-Path: header indicating the envelope sender. But note, It will be only a very short time before students figure out how to post from 'classroom'. That's why this method is not recommended as a secure posting method on a one-way or few-to-many type of list. The secure way to do this is by moderating everyone and giving authorized posters the list password so they can post with an Approved: header. See http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showfile=faq03.034.htp -- Mark Sapiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Complaints about MM 2.1.6b4
Thanks for the info. I will pass this onto the list admin. On Tue, 2005-09-06 at 10:29, Brad Knowles wrote: The newest problem is: Because Classroom is a shared email account, it shows the real sender - who is a member of the list with a check-mark in the MOD box, so it holds the email and waits for administrator approval. Make sure that your MUA properly uses the desired sender address as both the envelope sender and in the header From: and Sender: fields. Or, go into your mm_cfg.py file and change what fields you look at for determining list membership. If you don't have explicit settings for this, see the examples from Defaults.py, then copy them over to mm_cfg.py and change as necessary for your installation. These are settings for envelope sender from Defaults.py which is looking like it is doing the right thing. # The envelope sender is set by the SMTP delivery and is thus less easily # spoofed than the sender, which is typically just taken from the From: header # and thus easily spoofed by the end-user. However, sometimes the envelope # sender isn't set correctly and this will manifest itself by postings being # held for approval even if they appear to come from a list member. If you # are having this problem, set this variable to No, but understand that some # spoofed messages may get through. USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER = No How can we confirm that the MUA is doing the right thing? Would this be one of the mailers sendmail would be using, like mlocal? Darren Old Dominion University -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
[Mailman-Users] Complaints about MM 2.1.6b4
Hello, We had a few complaints from one of our list admins about the new version of mailman 2.1.6b4 we upgraded to in June. The previous version of mailman was version 2.0.13. I can not imagine that any features were removed between versions, however, they may have been moved. I am still getting familiar with the new mailman but do not know everything the new version has. If someone has come across these of these issues, please reply. Here are the issues the list admin raised: Our list serves are moderated - so the faculty cannot send something to the list without our approval. The lists are for us to notify about classroom issues. The old system had a box to enter addresses for all people who can post to the list without administrator approval. We were able to copy and paste the same list into each list serve. The box does not exist in the new system. The new system has a check-box. For each person in our copy and paste list we have to uncheck the MOD box. You can make the MOD box default to checked or not-checked. So we either have to check each faculty member or uncheck all of us. In the new system there is a box that allows you to grant non-moderated access to email addresses who are NOT members of the list. So to try and FIX the problem, we entered [EMAIL PROTECTED] as a non-member to this box - in EVERY List Serve, so we could post to the list serves from this address - and not have to manually go to every list serve and uncheck the box for everyone who can post to the list without administrator approval. The newest problem is: Because Classroom is a shared email account, it shows the real sender - who is a member of the list with a check-mark in the MOD box, so it holds the email and waits for administrator approval. So - we'll make one more pass through 50+ listserves and remove the check box for 8-10 members. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= end of list admin issues Darren Old Dominion University -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Complaints about MM 2.1.6b4
At 10:08 AM -0400 2005-09-06, Darren G Pifer wrote: The old system had a box to enter addresses for all people who can post to the list without administrator approval. We were able to copy and paste the same list into each list serve. The box does not exist in the new system. Yes, it does. Go to the web admin interface for your list. Go to the Privacy options... section. From there, go down to the Sender filters sub-page. The second box down from the top will have the description List of non-member addresses whose postings should be automatically accepted. That's what you want. The new system has a check-box. For each person in our copy and paste list we have to uncheck the MOD box. You can make the MOD box default to checked or not-checked. So we either have to check each faculty member or uncheck all of us. That's setting the individual moderated flag. You don't want that. See above. The newest problem is: Because Classroom is a shared email account, it shows the real sender - who is a member of the list with a check-mark in the MOD box, so it holds the email and waits for administrator approval. Make sure that your MUA properly uses the desired sender address as both the envelope sender and in the header From: and Sender: fields. Or, go into your mm_cfg.py file and change what fields you look at for determining list membership. If you don't have explicit settings for this, see the examples from Defaults.py, then copy them over to mm_cfg.py and change as necessary for your installation. -- Brad Knowles, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 SAGE member since 1995. See http://www.sage.org/ for more info. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
