Re: [Mailman-Users] Spam filtering hyperlinks in body of message

[Mark Sapiro]

On April 14, 2017 9:56:22 AM PDT, Dang Tran  wrote:
>
>a)   Is it a good idea to block/filter out of messages that contain
>hyperlinks?


If you mean hyperlinks in general, I think it's a really bad idea.

If you mean specific hyperlinks, e.g., with known phishing addresses, there are 
various MTA tools for this.


>b)   If so, how can this be done using spam filtering policy?


Mailman's spam filters work only on headers, not the message body.

See https://wiki.list.org/x/4030615



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Re: [Mailman-Users] SPAM Filtering - was:(no subject)

[Mark Sapiro]

On 05/14/2013 12:43 PM, Christopher Adams wrote:

 On another note, what are thoughts about utilizing SpamAssasin or other
 spam software with Postfix and Mailman. It seems that a lot of the traffic
 that is going through the Mailman server is spam, quite a bit which is
 flagged and blocked by using RBLS in  postfix smptd_recipient_restrictions.
 I am seeing upwards to 8,000 messages blocked every day. Is there a more
 efficient way to manage this without making it a full time job? :)


I don't think I ever replied to this, but spam filtering is the server's
job. It should be done at the 'front door' and mail determined to be
spam should be rejected by the incoming MTA. This avoids the issue of
accepting the mail and later determining that it is unacceptable and
perhaps returning a DSN or responding in some other way to an innocent
3rd party's spoofed address.

SpamAssassin alone is not a total solution, but there are milters for
incorporating SpamAssassin as well as ClamAV scanning into Postfix.

There are also techniques like greylisting which can help in some
environments.

There are also multidimensional solutions such as MailScanner that
incorporate spam and virus scanning with many other tests, but one issue
with MailScanner is it doesn't evaluate the mail until after it is
accepted by the MTA

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Re: [Mailman-Users] spam filtering messages containing certain 8 bit characters

[Mark Sapiro]

On 10/12/2011 6:58 PM, William Yardley wrote:
 Does Mailman base64 decode the subject before applying a regex, and if
 so, can I use UTF-8 character names in the regex to match various
 types of 8-bit characters?


No. header filter rules regexps are matched against the raw headers. If
a header is RFC2047 encoded, it is not decoded.


 Say, for example, that I want to block messages with 电话卡 somewhere
 in the subject line.
 
 Obviously, the actual raw Subject header will be more like:
 
  Subject: =?GB2312?B?[encoded stuff here]?=
  Subject: =?utf-8?B?[encoded stuff here]?=
 
 I tried putting in a regex to hold messages matching:
  Subject: .*\u7535\u8bdd\u5361
 
 And that didn't seem to work. As far as I can tell, there is no way to
 find a substring that will always match when the Subject header is
 base64 encoded.


I think this is correct. Each 3 bytes which are base64 encoded result in
a 4-character base64 substring. If the characters you are looking for
are encoded as a multiple of 3 bytes and begin on a 3-byte boundary,
they will encode to a unique base64 string, but if they don't begin and
end on a 3-byte boundary the base64 substring will be affected by what
comes before and/or after. Thus, I don't think you can reliably match,
even if you are only dealing with a single character set.

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[Mailman-Users] spam filtering messages containing certain 8 bit characters

[William Yardley]

Does Mailman base64 decode the subject before applying a regex, and if
so, can I use UTF-8 character names in the regex to match various
types of 8-bit characters?

Say, for example, that I want to block messages with 电话卡 somewhere
in the subject line.

Obviously, the actual raw Subject header will be more like:

 Subject: =?GB2312?B?[encoded stuff here]?=
 Subject: =?utf-8?B?[encoded stuff here]?=

I tried putting in a regex to hold messages matching:
 Subject: .*\u7535\u8bdd\u5361

And that didn't seem to work. As far as I can tell, there is no way to
find a substring that will always match when the Subject header is
base64 encoded.

(Putting in 'Subject: .*#30005;#35805;#21345;' also does not work).
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Spam filtering

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

Brad Knowles writes:

  IMO, Mailman should not re-sign.  If there was anything that would
  sign the outgoing messages, that would be the MTA and not Mailman.

But isn't that the problem?  In the situation these methods are
designed for, the MTA is signing mail for a trusted party, presumably
a user (perhaps a system user such as root or cron) in the domain.
(When forwarding, the origin's signature can just be passed on.)  But
in the case of a mailing list, the list manager has trust information
that the MTA doesn't (list membership, for a leading example).  So
even if the MTA actually does the signing, it's Mailman's
responsibility.

  Or, if Mailman is going to re-sign, then it should rename all but
  the minimum set of headers and then sign only the minimal set, in
  effect saying I scanned the message on inbound and it didn't look
  like spam to me, and the users requested that these messages be
  sent on to them, so here's the minimal stuff I trust about this
  message.

It should also sign RFC 2369 headers, etc, too.  (I assume that that's
what you meant, but minimal could also mean as little as possible.)

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[Mailman-Users] Spam filtering

[Geoff Shang]

Hello,

I have two spam-related questions, one relevant to Mailman and one not. 
Apologies for the one that isn't, but I hope you will endulge this query.


A person has been spoofing Email addresses on a number of 
blindness-related Email lists this week.  I won't go into the particulars 
as it's probably of little interest to this list.  They're also using some 
quite sophisticated techniques to hide their identity and point of origin, 
and this is definitely outside the scope of this list.


My questions here are more focused at helpping list/site admins to block 
such mail.


1.  It's possible to use an IP address to block(at least temporarily) 
these messages.  If I put this IP address into a Mailman spam filter, will 
this be checked *before* checking whether or not the person is a member of 
the list?  I want to know if list admins can block these without bugging 
their site admins to do it upstream.


2.  One idea I came up with for rejecting spoofed mail is for the 
receiving SMTP server to somehow check if the sending one is an MX for the 
domain given in the From header.  Are there any obvious problems with this 
approach?  Is anyone actually doing this?  It seems so simple that there 
surely must be some reason why it's not done.


Geoff.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Spam filtering

[Larry Stone]

On 2/17/10 7:56 AM, Geoff Shang at ge...@quitelikely.com wrote:

 1.  It's possible to use an IP address to block(at least temporarily)
 these messages.  If I put this IP address into a Mailman spam filter, will
 this be checked *before* checking whether or not the person is a member of
 the list?  I want to know if list admins can block these without bugging
 their site admins to do it upstream.

Probably better to do this in the MTA, not Mailman.

 2.  One idea I came up with for rejecting spoofed mail is for the
 receiving SMTP server to somehow check if the sending one is an MX for the
 domain given in the From header.  Are there any obvious problems with this
 approach?  Is anyone actually doing this?  It seems so simple that there
 surely must be some reason why it's not done.

A bad idea. MX records identify servers that RECEIVE mail for the domain.
They say nothing about which servers can SEND mail for the domain. While in
many cases, they are the same servers, there is no requirement that they be
so and many large ISPs split the functions.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Spam filtering

[Mark Sapiro]

Larry Stone wrote:

On 2/17/10 7:56 AM, Geoff Shang at ge...@quitelikely.com wrote:

 1.  It's possible to use an IP address to block(at least temporarily)
 these messages.  If I put this IP address into a Mailman spam filter, will
 this be checked *before* checking whether or not the person is a member of
 the list?  I want to know if list admins can block these without bugging
 their site admins to do it upstream.

Probably better to do this in the MTA, not Mailman.


I agree that it may be better in the MTA, but to answer the question,
yes, header_filter_rules are checked first.

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[Mailman-Users] Spam filtering

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

Geoff Shang writes:

  2.  One idea I came up with for rejecting spoofed mail is for the 
  receiving SMTP server to somehow check if the sending one is an MX for the 
  domain given in the From header.  Are there any obvious problems with this 
  approach?  Is anyone actually doing this?  It seems so simple that there 
  surely must be some reason why it's not done.

It is being done, although not via the MX for the reasons Larry Stone
gives.  What you're looking for is call SPF or DKIM (these are
actually two different protocols, and I think with the standardization
of DKIM, SPF is probably dead).  The way DKIM works is that hosts
authorized to send mail from a domain are given special resource
records in their DNS which provide a public key, and then some portion
of the mail and/or headers is signed with an appropriate private key.

The problem is that setup is quite finicky, so most hosts not run by
well-paid professionals don't do it.  If all of your users are on
Google or Yahoo, you'll be OK, I guess.



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Re: [Mailman-Users] Spam filtering

[Mark Sapiro]

Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

Geoff Shang writes:

  2.  One idea I came up with for rejecting spoofed mail is for the 
  receiving SMTP server to somehow check if the sending one is an MX for the 
  domain given in the From header.  Are there any obvious problems with this 
  approach?  Is anyone actually doing this?  It seems so simple that there 
  surely must be some reason why it's not done.

It is being done, although not via the MX for the reasons Larry Stone
gives.  What you're looking for is call SPF or DKIM (these are
actually two different protocols, and I think with the standardization
of DKIM, SPF is probably dead).  The way DKIM works is that hosts
authorized to send mail from a domain are given special resource
records in their DNS which provide a public key, and then some portion
of the mail and/or headers is signed with an appropriate private key.


There are still sites that check SPF and will reject mail for an SPF
hardfail.

Note, if you run SpamAssassin, there is a Botnet module[1] available
that will check the MTA that delivered to the trusted local network
has full circle DNS and a host name that doesn't look like a 'home
network' name.

[1] http://people.ucsc.edu/~jrudd/spamassassin/Botnet.tar

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Spam filtering

[Rob MacGregor]

On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 15:23, Stephen J. Turnbull step...@xemacs.org wrote:
 Geoff Shang writes:

 It is being done, although not via the MX for the reasons Larry Stone
 gives.  What you're looking for is call SPF or DKIM (these are
 actually two different protocols, and I think with the standardization
 of DKIM, SPF is probably dead).

That would be a surprise to the SPF folks, and the steady progression
of folks who're implementing it ;)

SPF and DKIM solve 2 different parts of the problem of forged emails.
Neither provides complete coverage, together they work well.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Spam filtering

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

Rob MacGregor writes:

  That would be a surprise to the SPF folks, and the steady progression
  of folks who're implementing it ;)

Over the years a lot of things have been surprises to the SPF folks.
I'm sorry for the misinformation, but the SPF promoters have been
guilty of excessive optimism themselves.  As for folks who implement
these nostrums, they'll try anything.  (I don't think that's wrong,
stupid, or lazy.  I just don't see it as a signal that the
nostrum-du-jour is useful.)

  SPF and DKIM solve 2 different parts of the problem of forged emails.
  Neither provides complete coverage, together they work well.

Please explain.  AFAICR, neither works very well with mailing lists
because they're both designed on the assumption that the endpoints are
directly connected (in the sense that intermediaries like Mailman must
be pure relays and not add anything to header or payload).

You can say that Mailman lists with value-added should re-sign, but
that doesn't play very well because mailing lists are somewhat like
common carriers.  Making the Mailman list responsible for spam etc
(which is what re-signing does) is going to kill a lot of discussion
lists.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Spam filtering

[Brad Knowles]

On Feb 17, 2010, at 8:35 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

 SPF and DKIM solve 2 different parts of the problem of forged emails.
 Neither provides complete coverage, together they work well.
 
 Please explain.  AFAICR, neither works very well with mailing lists
 because they're both designed on the assumption that the endpoints are
 directly connected (in the sense that intermediaries like Mailman must
 be pure relays and not add anything to header or payload).

SPF works at the envelope level, but without modification it breaks things like 
forwarding, is vulnerable to DNS cache pollution/poisoning attacks, etc

DKIM works at the content level and cryptographically signs the headers, but is 
vulnerable to MTAs and mail gateways that may transform the content or the 
representation of the content in ways that would normally appear to be 
transparent, but in fact wind up breaking the cryptographic signature.


Both have their uses, and both have their own set of limitations.  There are 
proposals on the table to try to help fix various known issues with these two 
tools, as well as to help fill in some of the other gaps.  We'll see if these 
proposals get anywhere.

 You can say that Mailman lists with value-added should re-sign, but
 that doesn't play very well because mailing lists are somewhat like
 common carriers.  Making the Mailman list responsible for spam etc
 (which is what re-signing does) is going to kill a lot of discussion
 lists.

IMO, Mailman should not re-sign.  If there was anything that would sign the 
outgoing messages, that would be the MTA and not Mailman.

Or, if Mailman is going to re-sign, then it should rename all but the minimum 
set of headers and then sign only the minimal set, in effect saying I scanned 
the message on inbound and it didn't look like spam to me, and the users 
requested that these messages be sent on to them, so here's the minimal stuff I 
trust about this message.

At that point, if some downstream site marks the message as spam and this hurts 
the reputation of the site running Mailman, then the site running Mailman 
should ban the downstream site that inappropriately blamed it for sending the 
content that their recipient(s) asked to receive.

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[Mailman-Users] Spam filtering without intervention - is it possible?

[Rogers, David W]

I would like to eliminate my getting this email when someone sends a spam
message to my list:



As list administrator, your authorization is requested for the following
mailing list posting:

List:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
From:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: This is a test of the Out of Office AutoReply: spam filter
Reason:  Message has a suspicious header

At your convenience, visit:

http://lists.fhcrc.org/mailman/admindb/hutchdotnet

to approve or deny the request.




Is it possible? I would really like these to be auto_discards.

Thanks,
David

David Rogers
Programming Manager
Collaborative Data Services (CDS)
Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center
1100 Fairview Avenue North - MP-647
Seattle, WA 98109-1024

Phone: 206-667-7089
Fax:   206-667-7864
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Spam filtering without intervention - is itpossible?

[Mark Sapiro]

Rogers, David W wrote:

I would like to eliminate my getting this email when someone sends a spam
message to my list:

snip

Is it possible? I would really like these to be auto_discards.


Go to the list admin pages and select Privacy options...-Spam filters
and set action to discard.

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[Mailman-Users] spam filtering?

[Jeff Warnica]

One would beleive, according to the front page of list.org, that mailman
has integrated spam filters. Reading through the documentation and a bit
of the source Im not quite sure how that is defined. Years ago I asked
what hooks for external (web) archivers meant and was told that you can
set up and alias ala |/path/to/archiver So I read that feature list
with a very large grain of salt.

Here at a local communiy net majordomo has been in use for years and
years. At some time in the past some custom spam filters were installed,
and the list owners had the choice of having triggered mail bounced to
them (for approval) or silently thrown away.

What I would like is to have a simmilar setup if/when we migrate to
Mailman.. All our incomming mail is being scanned by SpamAssassin, so all
that mailman would need to do is check headers and hold for approval (or
discard as an option) messages with an approiate spam score.

Is this possible, and if so how would I set this up?


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Re: [Mailman-Users] spam filtering?

[Saurav Pathak]

Thus spake Jeff Warnica:

+  
+  What I would like is to have a simmilar setup if/when we migrate to
+  Mailman.. All our incomming mail is being scanned by SpamAssassin, so all
+  that mailman would need to do is check headers and hold for approval (or
+  discard as an option) messages with an approiate spam score.
+  
+  Is this possible, and if so how would I set this up?

there are two methods, mentioned here:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showfile=faq04.023.htp

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Re: [Mailman-Users] spam filtering

[Mike Noyes]

On Wed, 2003-01-29 at 15:47, Robin Rowe wrote:
  Front-end your mailing lists with a procmail filter that uses
  SpamAssassin.
 
 Thanks, but as I said, I'm configuring mailman on a SourceForge-hosted
 mailing list. Installing SpamAssassin there is not within my power.
 
 Can anyone answer my question as asked? Is it possible to use the mailman
 spam filtering capabilities on message bodies as well as headers?

Robin,
FAQ 3.10. How do I enforce a text/plain posts only policy?
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showfile=faq03.010.htp

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[Mailman-Users] spam filtering

[Robin Rowe]

By setting bounce_matching_headers I have mailman trapping some messages
with content likely to be spam. This works really well, and I can approve
the false positives to go through. I would like to check not just headers
but the message body. There are a few phrases that would be good to catch
there. Can I do that?

The manual doesn't mention anything about this in the section,
Spam-specific posting filters. It would seem appropriate to say how to do
this there, or if it can't be done.

http://staff.imsa.edu/~ckolar/mailman/mailman-administration-v2.html

By the way, I'm administering mailman for a SourceForge list. Didn't set it
up myself. SourceForge creates some default spam filter rules, and I've been
adding to those.

Thanks!

Robin
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Re: [Mailman-Users] spam filtering

[Jon Carnes]

Front-end your mailing lists with a procmail filter that uses
SpamAssassin.

On Wed, 2003-01-29 at 12:00, Robin Rowe wrote:
 By setting bounce_matching_headers I have mailman trapping some messages
 with content likely to be spam. This works really well, and I can approve
 the false positives to go through. I would like to check not just headers
 but the message body. There are a few phrases that would be good to catch
 there. Can I do that?
 
 The manual doesn't mention anything about this in the section,
 Spam-specific posting filters. It would seem appropriate to say how to do
 this there, or if it can't be done.
 
 http://staff.imsa.edu/~ckolar/mailman/mailman-administration-v2.html
 
 By the way, I'm administering mailman for a SourceForge list. Didn't set it
 up myself. SourceForge creates some default spam filter rules, and I've been
 adding to those.
 
 Thanks!
 
 Robin
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Re: [Mailman-Users] spam filtering

[Robin Rowe]

Jon,

 Front-end your mailing lists with a procmail filter that uses
 SpamAssassin.

Thanks, but as I said, I'm configuring mailman on a SourceForge-hosted
mailing list. Installing SpamAssassin there is not within my power.

Can anyone answer my question as asked? Is it possible to use the mailman
spam filtering capabilities on message bodies as well as headers?

Cheers,

Robin
---
www.LinuxMovies.org www.FilmGimp.org
www.OpenSourceProgrammers.org  http://gtk-osx.sourceforge.net
www.MovieEditor.com

On Wed, 2003-01-29 at 12:00, Robin Rowe wrote:
 By setting bounce_matching_headers I have mailman trapping some messages
 with content likely to be spam. This works really well, and I can approve
 the false positives to go through. I would like to check not just headers
 but the message body. There are a few phrases that would be good to catch
 there. Can I do that?

 The manual doesn't mention anything about this in the section,
 Spam-specific posting filters. It would seem appropriate to say how to
do
 this there, or if it can't be done.

 http://staff.imsa.edu/~ckolar/mailman/mailman-administration-v2.html

 By the way, I'm administering mailman for a SourceForge list. Didn't set
it
 up myself. SourceForge creates some default spam filter rules, and I've
been
 adding to those.

 Thanks!

 Robin



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Re: [Mailman-Users] spam filtering

[alex wetmore]

On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Robin Rowe wrote:
 Jon,
  Front-end your mailing lists with a procmail filter that uses
  SpamAssassin.

 Thanks, but as I said, I'm configuring mailman on a SourceForge-hosted
 mailing list. Installing SpamAssassin there is not within my power.

 Can anyone answer my question as asked? Is it possible to use the mailman
 spam filtering capabilities on message bodies as well as headers?

If you automatically reject any email which isn't from list members then
you'll probably find 99.9% of your SPAM go away.  My popular lists get
about 1 piece of spam on average a year and usually it is targetted
from someone who took the time to sign up for the list in the first
place.

alex


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Re: [Mailman-Users] spam filtering

[Tom Neff]

--On Wednesday, January 29, 2003 3:47 PM -0800 Robin Rowe 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Can anyone answer my question as asked? Is it possible to use the mailman
spam filtering capabilities on message bodies as well as headers?


At the risk of garnering another that's not exactly what I asked, a 2.1 
patch was posted to Sourceforge to allow this, a couple of months ago.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] spam filtering

[Robin Rowe]

Jon,

  Can anyone answer my question as asked? Is it possible to use the
mailman
  spam filtering capabilities on message bodies as well as headers?

 Let me speak more clearly to you: No.

No you can't answer, or no it can't be done? ;-)

Thanks anyway!

Robin


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Re: [Mailman-Users] spam filtering

[Robin Rowe]

Tom,

 At the risk of garnering another that's not exactly what I asked, a 2.1
 patch was posted to Sourceforge to allow this, a couple of months ago.

That's a great answer.

Thanks!

Robin
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[Mailman-Users] Spam filtering.

[Feorag NicBhride]

My mailing list is already set up to hold posts from non-members but I'm
getting very fed up of having to manually reject spam. In particular, it's
Yahoo! addresses which are the biggest sinners. Has anyone written any
kind of Mailman add-on that will allow me to:

* automatically reject (rather than hold) non-member posts from certain
  domains, and

* send off an automatic complaint with full headers etc to the relevant
  abuse address?

bb
Feorag

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