Re: [MlMt] insertFormatString... ${} expansions listed somewhere?
On 11 Mar 2015, at 8:06, Thomas Wölk wrote:
@Benny: I think Jeremy idea is very clever. What is the best way to
deals with different __reply templates per recipient__?
I don't think there is any way to do that.
It is very annoying every time to edit the text again.
I distinguish between the following types (very different between DE
and EN) :
- close friends ⇢ _Hi, Hello, Salute, … ,_
- respectable persons ⇢ _Dear Mr … , Sehr geehrte Herr/Frau
(German), ..._
- I dont know this person ⇢ _Dear Sir or Madam, Dear Personnel
Director, ..._
It has always been my plan to add something similar to the dynamic
signatures system for this, but I don't know when I'll have time for it.
I've noted your examples above to remember to make sure that it would
also work for you.
--
Benny
Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote:
Jeremy Cowgar wrote:
"R" = (
"replyAll:",
"insertFormatString:",
"-Original Message-\nFrom: ${to.name}
[mailto:${to.address}\nTo: ${from.name} [mailto:${from.name}]\nCc:
${cc.name}\nSent: ${date}\nSubject:${subject}\n"
);
Terminal: [snip terminal command]
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Re: [MlMt] insertFormatString... ${} expansions listed somewhere?
@Benny: I think Jeremy idea is very clever. What is the best way to
deals with different __reply templates per recipient__? It is very
annoying every time to edit the text again.
I distinguish between the following types (very different between DE and
EN) :
- close friends ⇢ _Hi, Hello, Salute, … ,_
- respectable persons ⇢ _Dear Mr … , Sehr geehrte Herr/Frau
(German), ..._
- I dont know this person ⇢ _Dear Sir or Madam, Dear Personnel
Director, ..._
Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote:
Jeremy Cowgar wrote:
"R" = (
"replyAll:",
"insertFormatString:",
"-Original Message-\nFrom: ${to.name}
[mailto:${to.address}\nTo: ${from.name} [mailto:${from.name}]\nCc:
${cc.name}\nSent: ${date}\nSubject:${subject}\n"
);
Terminal: [snip terminal command]
--
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Re: [MlMt] insertFormatString... ${} expansions listed somewhere?
On 29 Sep 2014, at 5:32, Jeremy Cowgar wrote: I then learned that the email.reply event only processes the email you are replying to, not the message as a whole. Is there an event I could use to alter the message as a whole? No. Maybe email.edit, email.compose or something? I did find in the scripting that currently email.reply, email.display, email.new, and account.synchronized are the supported events. Is that still the case? Any plans to expand this? Yes, I have had plans for that for a long time, but it probably won't happen soon. Too many other higher-priority items. Sorry. -- Benny ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com http://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] insertFormatString... ${} expansions listed somewhere?
On Thu, 18 Sep 2014 17:54:31 +0200 Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote:
A short term solution would be to support the insertion of the
advanced type of format strings. I’ve
changed `MmReplyWroteString` such that if the first character
is `{` then it’s the “advanced” formatting style. This works
in the next test version of MailMate (probably tomorrow).
Now, I almost hate myself for this, but you would then get something
like what you want by pasting this in the Terminal:
Benny,
That works great, but I really only wish to use that style when I am
using a particular email account. I added the default you suggested and
was thinking I could hook into the email.reply event and alter the
result there depending on what account was used (was looking at the "To"
and "Cc" text fields present in detailed the reply string.
I then learned that the email.reply event only processes the email you
are replying to, not the message as a whole.
Is there an event I could use to alter the message as a whole? Maybe
email.edit, email.compose or something? I did find in the scripting that
currently email.reply, email.display, email.new, and
account.synchronized are the supported events.
Is that still the case? Any plans to expand this?
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Re: [MlMt] insertFormatString... ${} expansions listed somewhere?
> On Sep 19, 2014, at 4:20 PM, Kai Großjohann wrote: > > And don't we all love those responses that say "Please see my replies below > in orange." Don't get me started. OTOH, a few times I've tried to do inline replies, and the had to go to someone's desk to explain which parts were mine. I assumed user error until I saw how badly Outlook had slaughtered them. I no longer blame the users. ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com http://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] insertFormatString... ${} expansions listed somewhere?
On 19 Sep 2014, at 11:21, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote: On 18 Sep 2014, at 21:48, Kai Großjohann wrote: Actually, I find that the Outlook threading is better than I had feared. It actually works pretty well for a "linear" thread like this one (the one I'm responding to): I think I should add here that I was talking about the Outlook threading more than the message content. I found it pretty cool that Outlook collapsed sequences of replies into one message, and only displayed extra messages on every "fork". About the content, read on... For the record, for me top/bottom posting is not just about the ordering. Top posting is a “lazy” reply style in the sense that it encourages adding a comment to the top of the email leaving it to the recipient to figure out what is commented. Yeah. I take pains to reiterate the points, leading to things like "on item 3". It's not as friendly as just quoting the relevant bit of the email, as I'm doing here. And don't we all love those responses that say "Please see my replies below in orange." Oh well. When in Rome, it seems I try to do as the Romans do... Kai ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com http://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] insertFormatString... ${} expansions listed somewhere?
On 18 Sep 2014, at 21:48, Kai Großjohann wrote: On 18 Sep 2014, at 17:54, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote: On 18 Sep 2014, at 14:42, Jeremy Cowgar wrote: My company wants corporate email replied to in Outlook fashion :-(. That is simply depressing. I cannot imagine the reasoning behind such a strange requirement. I might be alone on this, but when I see this quoting style then “competent professional” are not the first words to cross my mind :-) Actually, I find that the Outlook threading is better than I had feared. It actually works pretty well for a "linear" thread like this one (the one I'm responding to): My comment was mainly triggered by the fact that a company would dictate a specific quoting style including making it look like it was generated by Outlook. In general, I dislike top-posting, but that was not the main issue here. I understand that mixing the different styles just gives weird results. So I understand why the company doesn't want different people to use different styles, because the mixture is worse than either style by itself. Agreed. And MailMate supports both top- and bottom-posting and I'm not going to dictate the use of one or the other -- also not on this list. For the record, for me top/bottom posting is not just about the ordering. Top posting is a “lazy” reply style in the sense that it encourages adding a comment to the top of the email leaving it to the recipient to figure out what is commented. This works in some cases and, ignoring the increasing quote levels, it can be fine for instant-messaging-like correspondence. Doing the same thing when bottom posting is of course even worse. Bottom-posting requires: * Cleaning up the replied email leaving out irrelevant parts (while not leaving out too much). * Answering/commenting each part of the email where it is relevant. This email is a good example of how I do this. Most often only one or two quote levels are needed, but in this email I had to use three levels before my first comment. When sending emails to multiple recipients (like on a mailing list) I find it is even more important to do this work. I write it once, but hundreds of people might read it. I spend a few more seconds on my email and each of them save those same seconds when reading it. To conclude and **close** this discussion before it begins: * “Bottom posting” is a really bad name and I should change it. * I'm not going to dictate a specific reply style on this mailing list. I'll just try to lead by example :-) * I do know that I and anyone thinking like me have lost this “battle” to Outlook and other main stream email clients many years ago. I'm in no way saying that I won't make MailMate more friendly to top-posting if anything is needed for that. -- Benny ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com http://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] insertFormatString... ${} expansions listed somewhere?
On 18 Sep 2014, at 17:54, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote: On 18 Sep 2014, at 14:42, Jeremy Cowgar wrote: My company wants corporate email replied to in Outlook fashion :-(. That is simply depressing. I cannot imagine the reasoning behind such a strange requirement. I might be alone on this, but when I see this quoting style then “competent professional” are not the first words to cross my mind :-) Actually, I find that the Outlook threading is better than I had feared. It actually works pretty well for a "linear" thread like this one (the one I'm responding to): One person sends a message, another person replies, another person replies to that, and so on -- the reply is always to the most recent message. When that happens, thanks to top-posting, you can just read the most recent message. Either you read it bottom to top (very weird) in chronological order (sane); or you read it top to bottom (sane) in reverse chronological order (weird). If there is a "fork" in this linear series of responses, then Outlook shows you two messages, one for each fork. And you read the first one top to bottom, then the second one till you reach a message that you have seen before. It's kinda similar to the "conversations" view that some email programs offer. Only different :-) I understand that mixing the different styles just gives weird results. So I understand why the company doesn't want different people to use different styles, because the mixture is worse than either style by itself. Kai ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com http://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] insertFormatString... ${} expansions listed somewhere?
On 18 Sep 2014, at 11:54, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote:
On 18 Sep 2014, at 14:42, Jeremy Cowgar wrote:
That is simply depressing. I cannot imagine the reasoning behind such
a strange requirement. I might be alone on this, but when I see this
quoting style then “competent professional” are not the first
words to cross my mind :-)
I'm fighting it big time, believe me! They cite the ability to see the
entire flow of the message, and I respond that's what your email program
is for w/its ability to link messages in the same thread :-/
A short term solution would be to support the insertion of the
advanced type of format strings. I've changed `MmReplyWroteString`
such that if the first character is `{` then it's the “advanced”
formatting style. This works in the next test version of MailMate
(probably tomorrow).
Now, I almost hate myself for this, but you would then get something
like what you want by pasting this in the Terminal:
snip
Remember, it won't work before I've uploaded another test release.
I like that, however, I don't really want to change my quoting style for
anything other than this one account. I may just omit the ${cc} portion
in my "alternate" reply key and tell them that's as close as I can get.
Thanks for giving it a go!
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Re: [MlMt] insertFormatString... ${} expansions listed somewhere?
On 18 Sep 2014, at 14:42, Jeremy Cowgar wrote:
OK, that got me a step closer, however I'm not exactly sure how to use
the ${cc} variable correctly, or maybe it can't be. It is returning to
me only the first person on the Cc list, not the entire list. Is there
a way to get the Cc list?
No, sorry, not supported yet. At least not for simple format strings. (A
more advanced approach is used for, e.g., the configuration of the
messages outline.)
My company wants corporate email replied to in Outlook fashion :-(.
That is simply depressing. I cannot imagine the reasoning behind such a
strange requirement. I might be alone on this, but when I see this
quoting style then “competent professional” are not the first words
to cross my mind :-)
I am just playing around with ways to make this work in MailMate. I've
managed to do this so far:
"R" = (
"replyAll:",
"insertFormatString:",
"-Original Message-\nFrom: ${to.name}
[mailto:${to.address}\nTo: ${from.name} [mailto:${from.name}]\nCc:
${cc.name}\nSent: ${date}\nSubject:${subject}\n"
);
This is only one small piece of the puzzle. I have thought about a
Bundle to accomplish this task, but it seems to get only the quote,
not any other information about the email, thus I can't add the above
header.
Yes, this is not so easily accomplished yet. What is really needed is
some kind of system for specifying prefaces (wrote-strings) and then let
MailMate handle it similarly to signatures. That way you could also
easily reply to me without using Outlook reply-style :-)
This has been on the todo for a long time. My own motivation is that I
want it to be easier to use multiple languages.
Hmm, `insertFormatString:` is not well suited for this since it is based
on the reply and not the original string.
Any thoughts would be appreciated, and yes... I don't like the Outlook
methodology, but they are really pushing it. I'm willing to go to
great lengths to avoid using Outlook for my work email, just for the
reply message!
A short term solution would be to support the insertion of the advanced
type of format strings. I've changed `MmReplyWroteString` such that if
the first character is `{` then it's the “advanced” formatting
style. This works in the next test version of MailMate (probably
tomorrow).
Now, I almost hate myself for this, but you would then get something
like what you want by pasting this in the Terminal:
~~~
defaults write com.freron.MailMate MmReplyWroteString -string "{
children =
(
{
string = '-Original Message-\n';
},
{
formatString = 'From: \${from.name}
<\${from.address}>\n';
},
{
sharedPrefix = 'to';
separatorString = ', ';
children = (
{
prefixString = 'To: ';
formatString = '\${to.name}
<\${to.address}>';
suffixString = '\n';
}
);
},
{
sharedPrefix = 'cc';
separatorString = ', ';
children = (
{
prefixString = 'Cc: ';
formatString = '\${cc.name}
<\${cc.address}>';
suffixString = '\n';
}
);
},
{
formatString = 'Sent: \${date}\n';
},
{
formatString = 'Subject: \${subject}\n';
},
);
}
"
~~~
Remember, it won't work before I've uploaded another test release.
--
Benny
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Re: [MlMt] insertFormatString... ${} expansions listed somewhere?
On 18 Sep 2014, at 8:27, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote:
On 17 Sep 2014, at 23:53, Jeremy Cowgar wrote:
Are the variable expansions available for use listed somewhere?
No, they are implicitly available in this file:
MailMate.app/Contents/Frameworks/OakMIME.framework/Resources/specifiers.plist
OK, that got me a step closer, however I'm not exactly sure how to use
the ${cc} variable correctly, or maybe it can't be. It is returning to
me only the first person on the Cc list, not the entire list. Is there a
way to get the Cc list?
My company wants corporate email replied to in Outlook fashion :-(. I am
just playing around with ways to make this work in MailMate. I've
managed to do this so far:
"R" = (
"replyAll:",
"insertFormatString:",
"-Original Message-\nFrom: ${to.name}
[mailto:${to.address}\nTo: ${from.name} [mailto:${from.name}]\nCc:
${cc.name}\nSent: ${date}\nSubject:${subject}\n"
);
This is only one small piece of the puzzle. I have thought about a
Bundle to accomplish this task, but it seems to get only the quote, not
any other information about the email, thus I can't add the above
header.
Any thoughts would be appreciated, and yes... I don't like the Outlook
methodology, but they are really pushing it. I'm willing to go to great
lengths to avoid using Outlook for my work email, just for the reply
message!
--
Jeremy___
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Re: [MlMt] insertFormatString... ${} expansions listed somewhere?
On 17 Sep 2014, at 23:53, Jeremy Cowgar wrote: Are the variable expansions available for use listed somewhere? No, they are implicitly available in this file: MailMate.app/Contents/Frameworks/OakMIME.framework/Resources/specifiers.plist But it might be easier to create a smart mailbox using the value you need and then look in the Mailboxes file: ~/Library/Application Support/MailMate/Mailboxes.plist (Essentially, you just lowercase what you see in the headers popup.) -- Benny ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com http://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
[MlMt] insertFormatString... ${} expansions listed somewhere?
Are the variable expansions available for use listed somewhere? Jeremy ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com http://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
