Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: Position of the Design Team in the community
From: Christoph Noack christ...@dogmatux.com To: marketing@libreoffice.org Sent: Tue, 26 April, 2011 21:05:58 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: Position of the Design Team in the community Hi Marc, an interesting thread ... indeed. One little comment ... Am Dienstag, den 26.04.2011, 00:02 -0400 schrieb Marc Paré: As far as the text in the material, in this particular case ... marketing material, the marketing team would give approval for the text included in document/materials. Marketing text is not the area of expertise of the design team. This should be clear to everybody: For text in marketing material marketing expertise is crucial, so this list is the appropriate place to discuss and decide it. Let's say the place is better suited, since its more likely that we have more people here being interested in Marketing related issues (keeping their eyes and ears open). But the good thing about community is that many others are quite capable ... whether it is QA, l10n, Marketing, Design. So (simplified) team XYZ can contribute to such discussions like team ABC - but they should really meet at the dedicated list. Regards, Christoph Hi :) Some things seem to inevitably be cross-discipline and so many people subscribe to more than one list while focussing on perhaps just 1 for most of their discussions. It's something that seems so much easier in OpenSource or Community Led Organisations. Regards from Tom :) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-marketing] Re: Position of the Design Team in the community
Le 2011-04-27 10:10, Tom Davies a écrit : +1 to comments posted at the bottom of the thread. The documentation team is also currently writing documentation on work-flow for documents looked after by the documentation team. Certain innovations and things that have happened high up in TDF recently have changed things a little but hopefully made it easier to contribute time and skills. Regards from Tom :) Yup, I am following those discussions, but only from the sidelines. :-) Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: Position of the Design Team in the community
Hi Marc, Tom, all! Am Mittwoch, den 27.04.2011, 09:30 -0400 schrieb Marc Paré: [...] If we can clear up the process and itemize it on a wiki page, then it is to all our advantage. So, I feel we should clarify (for LibreOffice/TDF materials or for any materials looking for TDF official support/sanction): * the design approval process for new elements as well as mention the usage rules behind the pre-approved elements. * the marketing approval process where we have an agreement to connect with Italo so that he may have a look at the material before publication. Once clarified, the process should then be noted on a wiki page accessible to all wanting to contribute on both these counts. Great ... I'm a bit sad that I'm unable to spend some time on that today, so I added it to our Design Team WhatWeNeed list which already waits for input by the different teams. http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Kick-Off/WhatWeNeed#Marketing_Team Just a remark - the page is not intended to collect work items, but things we need to get the Design team in working mode, so to say. The question how approves what ... is such an issue. Cheers, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: Position of the Design Team in the community
As for me, Tim Lungstrom [NA community DVD], I think the only part that needs to be spelled out is what can be done on the local level for icons and graphics that reflect that community of users. http://libreoffice-na.us/north-america-globe-dark-letters--all-small.jpg This link is a local graphic to show the area of our targeted users. It is a globe with those communities shaded in with green. That may be the types of issues that may come up. It is not a graphic/image that will be used world wide for other LibreOffice communities, but just our regional one[s]. The idea of needing that type of graphic pre-approved could be an issue to some people. The work that Drew has done for the DVD case and our Label[s] could be used as the basis for other community efforts. So that may need to be looked at and edited for that possible use. Right now it is our own designs, but could be used by other at some later date. As for things like web site and DVD visual designs, I approve of keeping much of the visual look similar to the other LibreOffice sites. The difference in the tabbed menu between the NA DVD and the German language LibreOffice-Box DVD is the fact we took out the developer's tab and added the documentation tab. Ours is a user's DVD, not a developer's one, so we needed an easy way to get to those documents and there was no need to include any developer files. Yet, both our tabbed menu structures look the same for the most part. So, there may be a need for some documentation spelling out what is needed to be complaint to allow the DVD to be called a LibreOffice DVD. Also there will be needed the same type of documents for how much can the LibreOffice Package could be modified before you can no longer call it LibreOffice. These documents must be easy to read and easy to understand. The issues brought up in this thread could get worse over time. LibreOffice, as its own package/community, is young. As it becomes older and wider, many of these issues may be solved. It just takes time to get the issues found and fixed. http://libreoffice-na.us/north-america-globe-dark-letters--all-small.jpg On 04/26/2011 12:02 AM, Marc Paré wrote: Hi Bernhard ... sorry for the long answer (in-line), but some of the answers didn't make much sense without the previous referenced text. Le 2011-04-25 19:24, Bernhard Dippold a écrit : Hi Drew, Marc, all! Stepping in here - could have commented on each of your previous mails, but you're quite fast ;-) It's the coffee that keeps me going! (*grin*) drew schrieb: On Mon, 2011-04-25 at 07:01 -0400, Marc Paré wrote: Hi Drew Le 2011-04-25 05:23, drew a écrit : Hi, I should expand on that - I would like the design team to be a resource for the different groups/teams that will be working on specific items. I would also expect it to continue generating guidelines, recommendations or published best practices if you will. Right - that's one of the reasons to establish a Visual Design team. I would not be in favor it acting as a mandated certification body. In my eyes the Design team defines a set of recommendations to follow in order to create and establish a consistent branding for LibreOffice. All artwork following these recommendations can be seen as supporting the general branding language and doesn't need single case approval to be used. Agree with this. [...] Thanks for the comments. We should however have some group ultimately responsible for the release of new designed materials. For new designs it depends for me if they reuse those pre-approved elements (in this case there is no need for anybody to comment/approve design-wise) or if they provide new, fresh, different elements that could or should expand our present set of branding elements. An expansion of our branding elements can't be done without approval by the Design team, while for new graphics in marketing materials only to be used once it depends on the general impression: If this is still consistent with our main branding language, nobody will object. I don't know if this decision can be left over to the single designer, so I'd prefer a mandatory information of the Design team when some new introduced graphics are to be used for *official* material of the community. This is what I was proposing. I also agree that re-use of pre-approved designs, there is no or even little need to seek approval. New elements or, as you say, an expansion of pre-approved elements should be sent to the design team for scrutiny and approval. This does not take much time out of people's time. IMO the marketing teams create and disseminate materials that often contain pre-approved design elements (ex logos, graphics, fonts etc.) from the design team. Key phrase - pre-approved. Right: Following the design recommendations and using the recommended pre-approved design elements should lead to a consistent visual design. In these cases, and in
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: Position of the Design Team in the community
Hi Marc, an interesting thread ... indeed. One little comment ... Am Dienstag, den 26.04.2011, 00:02 -0400 schrieb Marc Paré: As far as the text in the material, in this particular case ... marketing material, the marketing team would give approval for the text included in document/materials. Marketing text is not the area of expertise of the design team. This should be clear to everybody: For text in marketing material marketing expertise is crucial, so this list is the appropriate place to discuss and decide it. Let's say the place is better suited, since its more likely that we have more people here being interested in Marketing related issues (keeping their eyes and ears open). But the good thing about community is that many others are quite capable ... whether it is QA, l10n, Marketing, Design. So (simplified) team XYZ can contribute to such discussions like team ABC - but they should really meet at the dedicated list. Regards, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-marketing] Re: Position of the Design Team in the community
Hi Bernhard ... sorry for the long answer (in-line), but some of the answers didn't make much sense without the previous referenced text. Le 2011-04-25 19:24, Bernhard Dippold a écrit : Hi Drew, Marc, all! Stepping in here - could have commented on each of your previous mails, but you're quite fast ;-) It's the coffee that keeps me going! (*grin*) drew schrieb: On Mon, 2011-04-25 at 07:01 -0400, Marc Paré wrote: Hi Drew Le 2011-04-25 05:23, drew a écrit : Hi, I should expand on that - I would like the design team to be a resource for the different groups/teams that will be working on specific items. I would also expect it to continue generating guidelines, recommendations or published best practices if you will. Right - that's one of the reasons to establish a Visual Design team. I would not be in favor it acting as a mandated certification body. In my eyes the Design team defines a set of recommendations to follow in order to create and establish a consistent branding for LibreOffice. All artwork following these recommendations can be seen as supporting the general branding language and doesn't need single case approval to be used. Agree with this. [...] Thanks for the comments. We should however have some group ultimately responsible for the release of new designed materials. For new designs it depends for me if they reuse those pre-approved elements (in this case there is no need for anybody to comment/approve design-wise) or if they provide new, fresh, different elements that could or should expand our present set of branding elements. An expansion of our branding elements can't be done without approval by the Design team, while for new graphics in marketing materials only to be used once it depends on the general impression: If this is still consistent with our main branding language, nobody will object. I don't know if this decision can be left over to the single designer, so I'd prefer a mandatory information of the Design team when some new introduced graphics are to be used for *official* material of the community. This is what I was proposing. I also agree that re-use of pre-approved designs, there is no or even little need to seek approval. New elements or, as you say, an expansion of pre-approved elements should be sent to the design team for scrutiny and approval. This does not take much time out of people's time. IMO the marketing teams create and disseminate materials that often contain pre-approved design elements (ex logos, graphics, fonts etc.) from the design team. Key phrase - pre-approved. Right: Following the design recommendations and using the recommended pre-approved design elements should lead to a consistent visual design. In these cases, and in particular marketing materials and documents, these should be put to the scrutiny of the design team when design elements are included. No - this is not necessary, unless new elements are introduced. Yes, I was speaking from the point of view of new design elements. Sorry if this was not clear. But ... see below. Again, I simply disagree. As long as a good faith effort to comply with the guidelines is being made then I see no reason for a vetting process on each work item. I agree. But I also like to see a short information about new material sent to the design team. Continuation from above ... I also believe that, by courtesy, if design elements are included, the material should be sent to the design team for scrutiny so that both groups (marketing and design) are aware of the existence of such material. Best be informed than left in the dark. As far as the text in the material, in this particular case ... marketing material, the marketing team would give approval for the text included in document/materials. Marketing text is not the area of expertise of the design team. This should be clear to everybody: For text in marketing material marketing expertise is crucial, so this list is the appropriate place to discuss and decide it. Even more. We have an understanding that any new marketing material should be approved or scrutinized by Italo. Most times, Italo will simply give us a nod in approval. It goes without saying that in both these cases the TDF membership is involved through their participation in these groups giving validity to the approval process of both groups. Here I see it a bit differently: Merit can't be achieved by TDF membership, and if someone has been approved as TDF member because of contribution in any other area, this has nothing to do with his stand in the relevant team like marketing or design. A TDF member can vote and can be voted to an official position in the community. And (s)he is bound to the bylaws. But that's all. Real work in the community has nothing to do with the status of a contributor. Whether (s)he has been requested to become TDF member or not (people are not forced to do so): After some time a team member is
